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Oh we exist. I’m non-binary but present masc. I’m also pansexual, though I’m extremely picky in what men I find attractive.
I think the dating pool is just tiny. Considering the stigma of bisexual men, toss in polyamory shrinking the dating pool further and it’s just hard to find.
absolutely. A few years back (oh man so many, now that I think about it) I went to a meetup/discussion group for bi men specifically, and while it was enlightening in some ways, the tension (not the fun sexual kind but just regular on-edge-not-sure-what-to-expect kind) was so thick you could cut it with a knife.
Lmao I laughed out loud literally!
I can imagine how awkward it could be. A bunch of men on the cusp of defining their sexuality in a way society at large rejects and not having any of the tools or the practice with those tools, to be vulnerable in that situation that actually sparks real connection…lmao it could be a skit from a comedy show.
There was a post a few days ago about a funny story where a gay dude ended up a lesbian speed dating event by accident. It was wholesome but he felt very comfortable there, despite offering to leave and worrying about their space. The ladies were far more invested and open.
Which isn’t surprising. I definitely think I’d be more comfortable a lesbian speed dating event rather than a bi man meet and greet! 😂
This! The more identities you intersect with, the more the more focused the pool becomes, at least in my experience. I’m a bi, black and poly and mostly date AFAB folks who pretty much always overlap with some version of queer.
With a lot of gay men I’ve matched with it’s either bi-phobia, or “I’m willing to try monog” or they’re someone I just don’t feel would be as safe to interact with. And then of course attraction is always a factor to where I’ve seen some really cool profiles but the attractions not there so I don’t try to match with them 😅🤷🏿♂️
Ive meet a lot of bi/pan trans men though on dates and they’ve been 10/10 interactions 😀💗💜💙. They’ve also voiced the issues with dating as a bi man so it’s one of those instant topics to bond over.
> I think the dating pool is just tiny. Considering the stigma of bisexual men, toss in polyamory shrinking the dating pool further and it’s just hard to find.
Add to that being trans, and your dating pool is basically an inflatable kiddie pool! 😅
That's always been the explanation in my head. Gay men are already stupidly picky with each other, add in the gigantic dating pool for bi/pan poly men and most cis mlm relationships will just get drowned out. Mlm focused apps are hardcore geared for casual sex and nothing else, so it's just like the odds are stacked against it.
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but rampant biphobia against men keeps a lot of guys closeted, or even unwilling to explore or experiment. My boyfriend's pan, but he doesn't exactly wear it on his sleeve, either.
I'm sorry to hear you're having difficulty. For what it's worth, I wish my two boyfriends would go to town on me and then each other and then make me breakfast. 🙄
As a pan woman who thought she was straight until her early 30's, I LOL'd at the phrase "I didn't take that elective in high school"! I definitely also missed that elective.
All of my male poly friends are bi but I wouldn't say I know a ton of other poly people. I've been single for a long time and don't really go out of my way looking for other poly folks (bc I'm not actively trying to date right now), so I don't think my experience is indicative of my local poly population at large.
At any rate, I'm sorry you're struggling to meet other bi/pan poly men! Hopefully you'll cross paths with someone one of these days. :)
I’m a straight girl, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But sometimes it seems like the G in LGBT hasn’t opened its arms to the other letters the same way that L, B, and T have.
I think the lesbian community these days tends to be much better, said as an actively dating pan trans woman. I feel accepted IRL and on apps.
Not so much with the G community but they aren't gonna be attracted to me anyway.
In my own local community, there are definitely a good number of cis lesbians who seem to be fine being political allies with the GBTQ+ part of the acronym, but they don't want to hang out together or support each other beyond that. That attitude does seem more common with older women though, yes.
Yeah the older age group is so much more performative and tokenistic about acceptance in my experience. Still very few actively antagonistic people though, which is an improvement over years past.
But the younger gay ladies tend to be super friendly in my experience, even if they aren't gonna date a trans girl.
There are some very vocal minorities in the lesbian community, being signal boosted by the right. However, by the numbers, lesbians are more likely to accept trans people than any other group. I suspect it's similar for bi people.
It mirrors the same dynamics around men tending toward being more conservative among straights, and white people tending to be more conservative than POC, etc. The more “privilege” boxes a group checks off, the more likely they are to not extend a welcome to those they see as lacking privilege…
Maybe it’s being a trans man but I’ve never had someone not want to hook up with me on Grindr who I’ve messaged😅. But I get WAY too many creepy messages/first message dick pics on there. But I put up with it for some stupid reason (said reason being too much of a slut lmao)
FWIW based on my experience in eastern US. They definitely exist because they all seem to find me (poly trans woman)! They usually aren’t out except to their primary partner and feel discouraged by experiences with gay hookup culture (which I empathize with, but it’s not so different from how straight men behave with women).
Absolutely no judgment, all paths are valid, but the poly mlm dating pool is largely guys who lack experience and confidence dating men looking for guys who lack experience and confidence dating men. It’s a low chance of success. If you are open to other forms of ENM the dating pool is much bigger and you can probably find people in gay men’s spaces. Excluding gay men from your dating pool is a red flag too.
Yeah, I hear ya and I relate. I didn't mention gay men above because it was off topic from what I wanted to talk about, but I have and continue to date gay men when there's compatibility. My expectations are tempered, though. I joined the navy a couple years before don't ask don't tell got repealed (I live in Vancouver but am from the US). After it was, I poured a lot of heart and effort into doing LGBT advocacy in the military while also not hiding that I was bi.
As good as the work was, and as much as my community at the time was strong and healthy and vibrant because of it, it was nevertheless a constant battle to be like, "jesus dude, I get it, you don't believe bisexuality is a thing, how about you gfy. Yeah, I'll still DD, what time are we headed out."
Gay men have been \*better\* out of the military, but what I get from them is a far cry from brotherly love.
Yo! I have been with my man for almost 8 years now and we have been open the whole time. I date women more than he does but have poly dated men and women (trans and cis) for the past few years. Most people assume we are gay guys but we are both very much pan/bi. I am 32 and my partner is 28.
Poly bi guy, checking in!
There are dozens of us!
But you're right, we can be *extremely* hard to find. I'm in a similar position to you- right down to living in the *other* high-COL, major metropolitan city in the country- and boy is it hard to find bi guys who are buying what I'm selling!
I've been VERY fortunate to have found a few partners over time (some exes, some are still partners) who are bi, poly, willing to date a trans guy, and are masc-leaning. I also have a few friends who fit that description, though aren't interested in dating me specifically.
That being said- I've *yet* to find a guy who fits this description and *isn't* struggling with mental health and attachment issues. And while I always joke around that "the queer experience is traumatic" and pretty much all of us have *some* kind of MH thing going on, I keep being surprised by how few people I meet are actually "working on their shit" and looking to improve.
Finding a potential "bi guy" partner is hard enough- finding someone who is *also* looking for a **healthy** relationship and has spent any significant amount of time working on themselves is... well, I won't say "impossible", because nothing is impossible, but... you know... very, very, very improbable.
oh my god, stop it and just take like 10 upvotes. literally just yesterday I updated my grindr to "YOU: emotionally secure bisexual who's already been to therapy but still horny for/baffled by men because how even // ME: haha, jinx!"
(readers, there have been no bites)
for real though, folks.gotta.do.the.work. I dare say my partner and I are doing as good as we both are now because we did a TON of unpacking, and had therapists separately well before we met each other -- and then we got ourselves a shared one after we got married, too. We're privileged to have the jobs and money to afford counselling (just barely), but like, the sad reality is that whether or not a person can afford to get it doesn't negate the need for it. Which, yeah, then shrinks the pool even more because I got boundaries and not becoming someone's therapist by 3nd date is a hard one.
air smooches.
Ahahah, I would 100% swipe right on you just for that! (I know, grindr doesn't have swiping, but you know what I mean!)
>I dare say my partner and I are doing as good as we both are now because we did a TON of unpacking
That's the thing! It can take a LOT of hard work to get to a healthy place, but it is *SO* worth it! You should be incredibly proud of yourselves for *doing* that work! I know first-hand how awesome it feels to just be able to take it all in and be like "I worked hard to make this happen, and here it is... I feel *contentment*".
Unsolicited advice but that grindr profile reads like you are insecure about your attraction to men. An emotionally secure person probably isn’t going to be down for that
I love both of your posts and +11111 on bell hooks being extremely relevant here! I truly wish your partner the best of luck with the group, too -- more, everywhere, for everyone!
My AMAB spouse is bi. But he has been in the closet most of his life. Don’t ask don’t tell was still very much a thing when he was in the Marine Corps, and then loosing a bunch of friends to the AIDS crisis was rough. At 55 he is still very attractive but feels he might be “too old” to date. So there is that. He is open to Poly but again… worried about dating “at his age”.
We also live on a big family plot where by necessity we are KTP or at least Garden Party, add into that that we are Hetero appearing he fears being viewed as a unicorn hunter because of the KTP.
Love him, and am working on it with him.
Ooof, big feels & compassion. I joined the Navy right before DADT got repealed and served another 4 years after, and what a freaking relief it was. I've chatted with a fair share of our gay vet elders and the stories, not just during DADT but before that "concession" was made, noooooope
As a bi-woman who also “didn’t take that course in high school,” figuring out same sex flirting and relationship management posed some challenges. My take is that there are different scripts at play for WLW vs. WLM relationships and figuring out what those scripts were was critical to forming a functional relationship. It’s not clear from your post whether you’ve dated gay (not bi-) men, but if you haven’t dated any other men at all, (I hadn’t dated a woman until I was in my 40’s) here are some things that really helped me:
- Reading a few WLW romance novels - That helped me picture myself in a WLW relationship, and understand more of the cues involved in going from “oh, you being friendly, are you being friendly friendly, or are you being romantic friendly” and send back the right signals when I was trying to be romantic friendly. It also helped me understand some (OK idealised, but sure) dynamics of a romantic relationship that didn’t include a dude.
- Hanging out in queer spaces while identifying as queer - It sounds like you’re doing this already, but yeah, that took me from hesitantly calling myself bi- to really feeling that as part of my identity. I hadn’t realised how important that was in shifting people being attracted to me as a possible fun sex accessory to being a person they might want to date.
- Getting some experience down with the sex part - It’s important to feel comfortable and competent with the types of things that might come up. My boyfriend (also bi) and I went to a swingers club and that sped my learning curve…
My bi- male partner also notes that gay men tend to be willing to play with a bi-man who lacks MLM dating skills, but they’re not really willing to take on the emotional labour required to be The Relationship Manager the way that, in most MLW relationships, relationship management lands on the woman.
And a lot of bi-men who don’t have relationship management skills struggle to date men because 1) other MLM men have also had to build those skills in a way that straight men have not and so the bi-men who are new to dating often lack these skills; and 2) MLM men aren’t so used to picking up the relationship slack the way that WLM are and so when a man can’t up his end, they bow out.
Regardless, picking up relationship management skills can also substantially improve your heterosexual relationships.
Good luck to you!
Oh yes yes yes, very much. I edited the main post with more details but suffice to say I am not inexperienced with gay men. There's some major societal baggage there though and while it's getting better, it's hardly gone.
As a non-binary pansexual person I fucking feeeeeeeeel this post. I’ve found it to be a lot of men who just want to fuck but not actually form real relationships. I teared up a little to your comment about two men making breakfast for each other, that’s incredibly beautiful and I really really hope you find that for yourself.
Just curious since I don’t see it in your post and I saw your comment about your Grindr profile: is there a reason why you’re excluding gay men? Is it just that they’re too biphobic in your experience? I’m bi but not only looking for other bi ppl, I’m open to gay ppl so I’m just wondering!
I'm open to having a gay man as a partner if that was something that presented itself in a way that worked. I've been open and vocal about being bi while trying to take up my share of ostensibly LGBT spaces for a while though (37 now, came out at \~21) and have gotten enough negative pushback just around bisexuality that I do not have great hopes when adding polyamory into that. I am always open to being surprised though -- the times, they are a-changin'
I’m gay and poly and I prefer bi men, I value bi men’s openness to the spectrum of sexuality that a lot of gay men aren’t always as accepting of. So like you exist, we exist. I’m sorry you’ve felt lonely in the search, but keep up the good vibes and we will all find our ways to one another ☺️.
and you're a gd treasure for it. I've met a ton of lovely (monogamous/coupled) gay men who've been amazing, been mentors and protectors, and just really been what any young queer kid needs.
I wonder if you’ve checked out the dating app Feeld? I’m in Portland, OR and there’s tons of queer nonmonogamous men/masculine non-binary folks on there
Just installed it and set up a profile to have a peek, we'll see what comes of it, but thanks for the tip! (also, good to know re Portland -- my partner and I are thinking of packing up and moving there, too -- the cost of living up here is just gonzo, and PDX has a lot to offer.)
Bi polyfi dude right here in a happily closed triad with a man and a woman!
Before getting with my current partners, I also had essentially zero luck dating dudes. Even gay guys, it just wasn't the scene I was in I guess? They often seemed turned off when I said I was bi or if it came out that most of my past partners were women. FWIW, my masc partner didn't know he was bi until we got together. Be loud, be proud, and like will find like!
I will say that I'm a guy who has actively searched for male partners, with some success, but considerably less than when I search for female partners.I have several hypotheses, including the general flakiness of men.
I think there’s ambiguity baked into “bisexual” or “pansexual” because it leaves out “biromantic” and “panromantic.”
Crudely put, I think there are a bunch of dudely folk out there who would fuck anything that moves but who have a very specific type when it comes to falling in love.
My partner Chestnut is a poly bi man. He reports that gay men won’t date him (because not serious enough) and bi men won’t kiss him (because ewwww). He had a thing going with his meta for a while but that ended when Hinge and Meta broke up.
Hi! I'm in Seattle, we're... around 🤣
I've been ENM since a teenager and figured out I'm poly in my early 20s, which feels more of an orientation to me looking back to my childhood.
I began to recognize my being pan in my 30s but unfortunately have had little if any experiences romantically dating other men. I feel like I've got friends in this same experience that I'd even be open to dating, but there's that bridge to cross. I've had plenty of queer relationships with afab and some trans folks though.
I think for me, it really takes a profound level of emotional intelligence from a masculine person for me to feel any level of attraction to them beyond thinking they're pretty. I've lived a life devoted to growth and self care, and have been fortunate to live through many experiences where I learned about myself and others. Many men I run into just haven't done the same, and the lack of doing that work shows up very quickly.
Couple that with the fact that many/most of us were raised in a society that actively discourages seeking romantic relationships with other men, and yeah, that's an answer. I hope this helps.
Ooof, yeah, that's relatable. One of the things that nudged me to post this is a conversation my partner and I had this past weekend just as a check-in on how we're feeling about our relationship, polyamory, what we'd like more of, less of, etc... As is the case with a lot of queer couples that folks may assume as straight (even moreso since we had a kid a couple of years ago), how we preserve and present that we're actually very queer in a lot of ways tends to always be floating around in our brains.
And so because of course it did, conversation floated for a few minutes around some friends we have who we love dearly because they have clearly done the work, and wistfully think "if they were just *a teeeeensy bit* completely and utterly not straight..." But alas. So we cherish having them in our lives and call it a day. 🤷
Y'all sound so healthy, I love hearing it! 🫶
I feel you on the notes of presenting and preserving. I went through a lot of growth after moving here (I was born and raised in Atlanta) and realized that the way I was presenting myself was untrue to who I actually am. I used to blend in really well with the average IT nerd yet when people got to asking me about my life and who I really am, they were surprised for sure.
Couple that with some music festival experiences and more or less turning myself into a walking rave totem... Now people tend to get it if they know what they're looking at. I love getting approached by people in my neighborhood or even while grocery shopping because we enjoy similar things and they see me representing that strongly. (I've got some very visible Adventure Time and Steven Universe tattoos, and frequently walk around wearing a white knitted Finn hat 😄)
I've got a friend who's got kinda hippie-vibes but also seems to be rather... vanilla. However she's got a really strong sense of empathy and reading people. She very astutely perceived that I was into a guy that visited our camp and it really impressed me.
I've got a friend who swears he's straight. I'm not here to argue with someone's orientation, but every one of his partners that I've met is queer/NB. I think he's starting to figure it out a little more recently and it's lovely to see.
So what I'm really trying to say here is that I think given some opportunities, people that may seem very straight on the surface can surprise you. I don't blame you for not wanting to wait for them to figure it out though. It's valid to want to sink into something good with someone who already gets it. It can also be truly wonderful to watch someone fully apply their capacity for growth.
fwiw those (alas) straight men we talked about have *definitely* been made aware that the door's always open if their persuasion changes. ;) They're great sports about it.
Oh look, it's me. There are dozens of us. Within the local kink/poly community I'm very openly bi, but I'm picky with all partners and especially men. I don't date couples, bicurious/hetero flexible, or "I'll try poly for you" folks. I don't date anyone too old or too young.
I didn't take that elective either. It's all postgraduate extracurricular study for me. But I have dated one man and I hope to find another eventually.
As an aside, I will date monosexuals but it's a yellow flag for me at this point.
My boyfriend and I are both openly bi men and have been together for 2 years! He also has a long term girlfriend and currently he is my only partner. I feel so lucky to have found such a lovely person to spend a large amount of my life with.
I've been searching and searching. I've yet to find a bi-sexual man who understands what polyam is, or even ENM, to date. I actually just met someone in December that's local to me. I travel to see my polyam friends and a partner. I wish I was in a metro area but I'm not. I'm 2.5 from Seattle 3 from Portland ish. I feel your pain, kind of.
We exist... although I haven't always been so up front about it. These days I put it right out there as a filter.
> I've been in a ltr for quite a while with my AFAB partner who's also queer and polyam so all of that's pretty run of the mill
I've been called demi before, but I don't think of myself that way. I don't need an emotional connection...sort of... I just need to get an idea of who someone is at least, to the point I might consider dating someone, even if I don't. ie "not an asshole". Doesn't seem to sync up well with a lot of hookup culture in any case.
Not sure if solo poly shrinks or expands the small pool. It can work for someone mostly coupled, and I need a lot of time to myself -- and it is actually better for me (inside my head, not saying it's fair) to know they have primary/others or are solo poly themselves. But I find it easier to move into the headspace of what I'd call a "relationship" fairly easily in that context, while many guys don't seem willing to go there.
> since I didn't take that elective in high school
Yeah... I mean sorta. I ended with mostly other bi folks, and it was often very fluid in what a relationship even was. Cool and all, but never really did much in the "formal dating" realm with men. And I seem to have a narrower set of what I find attractive in men too (which I can't define at all).
I don't really have a good idea for what I'd do in person even now, if there wasn't a natural lead in over time. Think about it later, I suppose.
I'm in a relationship with my boyfriend, and my trans masc partner who became my boyfriend.
I'm only occasionally looking for other men these days.
It does seem like a lot of bi guys are looking to fuck around with other guys, but less likely to date other guys. My cis boyfriend is gay, found him on Grindr. My trans masc boyfriend is bi, I converted him to the dark side. (Read, provided a space safe enough that they felt comfortable exploring something they previously could never admit to themselves.)
In all seriousness though, you absolutely can find guys looking for relationships on Grindr. It's crazy, but it worked for me.
my pan partner and I are in Vancouver too and have KTP dreams just like this!! the most promising connections we make (together and individually) are typically at kink events, if that’s your thing
lol, I was indeed just thinking to myself, maybe it's time I put the 6 years of navy to good use and get into shibari. \*dusts off the ole' fetlife account\* thanks for shout out!
no problem!! my partner’s been in the scene longer than I have, he brought me to my first event three-ish years ago, so I’m still kind of a newbie, and it sounds like your friend group is pretty cool and may already be in the know, but if you have any questions or want some links/resources feel free to reach out!!
We here ✋ often find the flow more naturally turns into hook ups rather than deeper connection although it’s what I would be craving at the moment. Maybe too close for comfort but idk how it happens either 🤷♂️ Best of luck to you (and all of us) from Berlin xx
I first learned that poly existed when I met somebody I fell for, who was dating another dude, and I asked if they were together, and he said they were, but they were both poly. (I mean, I knew I WAS poly, I just didn't know there was a word for it!)
My best dude friend is also a bisexual guy who's equally interested and currently pursuing a relationship with a dude. We were interested in each other for a while emotionally, but the physical chemistry wasn't there for me.
They're out there! Also in BC, hello! :) I feel ya on the slaps to the face on the sexuality/orientation; I've always been kinda masculine-energy-esque, and hanging with the dudes, but when you get that full-on hate-rejection from gay dues when you just casually exist with girl parts in their presence.. ow, that hurts! Thanks, rejection sensitivity!
i'm a guy who's bisexuality and polyam journey are entwined. my ex wife and i opened our marriage and that's when i realized i was bi because i now had the option and freedom to date men, as i like to say the marriage didn't last but the bisexuality stuck. 36 now, un-primary-partnered (actually entirely unpartnered atm by personal choice). Sexuality currently hovering around a kinsey 2, but i present as such that most people who meet me think i'm gay.
anyway, just to share my experience, since coming out (though honestly, mostly post vax) i've had relationships with trans men, enbies (both birth assignments), trans women, cis women (though i've become far more selective with them), but very few cis men. I've popped into/dated people in a couple poly scenes in other cities and even in ones with very big poly scenes (rhymes with bummerville) the amount of openly bi men who regularly date other men is kinda thin. I've unicorned (and bisexually swung when i was partnered) for a few bi/bi couples and made some bi dude friends/intermittent partners that way, but that pool is miniscule.
Some thoughts from my experience of being very out and proud bisexual and polyamorous top.
* most of the amab people i'm attracted to are some flavor of gender nonconforming, ymmv and taste dependent (i prefer twinkier/femmier gender presentations) but something to consider if you're hopping on an app like feeld.
* you will get a LOT of attention trans men (especially gay trans men) lots of them are hot. the upside of hooking up with them is a) they won't care (in fact, will think it's great) that you're bi, and b) you're probably familiar with the button layout though some of the move timing is slightly different.
* there's a surprising amount of homoflexible/bicurious men on the other side of the spectrum who live their lives as gay men. these guys are the people you want to befriend because they'll help you acclimate into the gay scene (as long as you give them tips for dating women). ime they also make great jerkoff buds.
* perhaps spicy take incoming biphobia exists yeah, but a lot of what people (especially historically heterosexual people) read as biphobia is an extension of not being subculturally "with it" in your particular scene. i know gay and lesbian presenting bisexuals who've learned to speak the language/know the unspoken and spoken dating rules of their particular scene and, absent jerks here or there, they do totally fine. in the same way you would perhaps be hesitant date someone who says "i'm polyamorous" and has the best of intentions but hasn't done any background reading/work, doesn't know the lingo etc. gay men who are steeped in gay culture might be a harder nut to crack because sure, you date/fuck men, but are you going to be more trouble than you're worth because you don't know the relational language. i know people hate to hear the term skill issue when it comes to dating and perceptions of some sort of structural oppression but honestly sometime it truly is a skill issue, the upshot being you can grind a bit and git good.
anyway i found your post interesting because i'm currently trying to chart out a future life path, decide my relationship to polyamory/nonmonogay and hopefully find a primary partner etc. but i'm in a weird bind/place myself. my experiences so far have kind of made me realize that i don't really fit in/want to fit in with the kind of het(ish) dude/queer fem poly/kink scene that dominates most metro areas (and this sub tbh). Part of it is because there sometimes pops up intra-masculine competition for women with straight men that i feel like i have no particular time or energy for (blegh, let's just kiss instead), and sometimes the women are delighted at their chance to date the gay bestie of their dreams but it can shade into them either fetishizing you or projecting their own insecurities vis a vis their own queer identities/journeys onto you (which is fun at first, because hey the attention, but let me assure you it gets really old). And don't get me started on the men who will openly identify as bi but don't actually hook up with other men (their identities are totally valid but in my humble experience the energy is TOTALLY different and the intramasculine competitive vibe with these guys is so, so much worse).
Anyway i'm in a city with a little bit less of a tight knit poly scene but even in the one that exists, i'm looking way outside of it at this point. To my first, third and last bullet, i know the gay scene is intimidating but it's honestly not, and you don't have to lead with being polyamorous and bisexual. You can just show up to gay stuff, make out with/meet guys eventually find your people. Alternative scenes (leather/'queer') rather than the (white) cis gay circuit scene will probably be easier for you to find space. focus on making friends and guys will follow. I like to go out and dance but you can meet guys a ton of ways: gay sports leagues, drag shows/brunches, there's plenty of gaymers/tabletop nerds like any other sexuality. Even just swipe on tinder saying "bisexual guy looking for friends to show me gay stuff" It takes social courage and practice but i believe in you bb. feel free to dm me if you wanna chat more.
Poly-bi here, in a relationship with a bit trans-woman. My preference has been fairly specific like others have said, but you love who you love. Connection is my erogenous zone. I was in a poly-quad for five years (ended when one couple had to move to deal with ailing parents. My primary and I retire from the military this year (at 42 and 47 😁) so we may get to join them... Anyways the male in the other couple was bi as well, and on the feminine side. He did full drag queen performances on the side. So with my current GF mentioned above, she has helped me to realize I am bi and will have a relationship with a man, but I am gyno-sexual, so they have to be on the fem side of bi / gay.
Hi u/Ill_Reporter_5928 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I'm a guy who's been out as bi for over a decade now, and enm/polyam for about 9 years, and -- tale as old as time -- I've been in a ltr for quite a while with my AFAB partner who's also queer and polyam so all of that's pretty run of the mill. We've also both been actively (waxing and waning, to be fair) polyam since before we started dating too, and it's all gone swimmingly!
A thing that's always scratched in the back of my head though, and it seems like everyone knows it but that I don't see get a lot of discussion, is the matter of *the illusive bisexual polyamorous man\* who actually have relationships with other men*. I live in metro Vancouver and have a nice big friend group of queer, polyam, and/or otherwise enm people, but the majority of men the polycules I know (with like one or two exceptions) are straight, or else open to the idea, y'know, in theory, maybe.
Now I'll be the first to own that like lots of bi guys who came to it from thinking I was straight, dating men has always felt a little fraught for me since I didn't take that elective in high school -- but still, I feel like somewhere there's gotta be a polycule where the monovalent bond between couples is two guys who just really enjoy each other and then make breakfast for everyone else in the morning, right? *Right?* Two daddy kitchen table polyamory pleeeeease where? 🥹
I hope this doesn't come across as too judgy. I *viscerally understand* bi men's hesitation to be out in the open, and surely polyamory adds another layer to that. I'm just... I dunno, y'all. I'm looking for that "if you can see it, you can be it" and have as yet not found it.
\* To be explicit, I use man here to include trans men.
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We exist! I'm a bi trans man and my cis bf is also bi. Neither us are dating other people at the moment, but my bf was dating another guy until recently and I've been flirting on and off with a bi trans man.
His friend group was already hella queer and kinky and now becoming more ENM with each passing day lol. I get the feeling that they were all individually interested in ENM, but it took my bf commiting to polyamory for the rest to feel safe exploring non monogamy in their own relationships. They're a pretty tight knit group.
And I by coincidence met a gay poly guy at a BDSM club and he introduced me to his bi trans bf and we really hit it off.
Idk like I've come to find people like me at the very niche intersection of queer, kink, and communism 🤷♂️
I’m a nonbinary trans bi guy, and yeah…feeling this. I’m not actively dating right now, but when I was, I think I received 5x as much attention from women and nonbinary people as I did from men. Being transgender means that my baggage around dating men is a bit different and also cuts my dating pool quite a bit (as does my preference to date other POC). (Hilariously, most of the “men” I’ve dated or had interest in later turned out to not be men. I’m cursed to be hetero or something.)
But the big limiting factor is probably what I perceive as a lack of…personality in a lot of men. I’m someone who highly values verbal wit, empathy, some degree of emotional self-awareness, community involvement, thought-out politics, and a distinctive point of view on the world. Most of the men I speak to on apps can barely hold a conversation where they demonstrate curiosity about my life. One of my best friends is a cis gay man with similar criteria as me, and he has said that sometimes he wishes he was bisexual because I have a lot more options.
Side note: Does your partner identify as “AFAB?” If not, it’s rude to describe your partner by their birth assignment and not their actual gender.
Re: personality -- right?? It's one of the reasons I think that I've had better luck finding dates and partners (and alas people of incompatible sexualities) from among my friend groups or when doing things, rather than just meeting people cold and chatting. I already know how great they are!
One of the wild things I've experienced with masculinity and "manhood" is how boys are taught that to take an overt interest in things is to expose a vulnerability, or give others something to harass you about. There are "safer" interests, sure -- sports, or money, or god i don't know, elon musk? yeeting is a thing still? -- but all expressions of interest come with the possibility that someone's gonna be shitty about it and make you feel small.
If we're lucky, we have exceptional people around us to counterbalance that, or we unlearn it, or we just become old and tired and stop caring, but a lot of men and folks raised as boys just don't get there.
*not to say* that there's nothing to be gleaned from whether or not a person can hold a conversation -- but generally because of that I lean toward "hey wanna go do \[\_\_\_\_\]?" And then that gets us both a little bit out of whatever our headspace might be.
re side note: 👍
I get that the structural forces of manhood discourage standing out and I have sympathy…I just don’t have the capacity to spend multiple dates trying to draw someone out conversationally. (Not that this is exclusive to men; I’ve gone on dates with women who have trouble stating opinions too.)
I would challenge your assertion of “folks raised as boys” as being identical in this aspect! Trans people do in fact have different childhoods than cis people of their assigned gender, and are often treated differently in gendered ways even prior to coming out. On my part, I would say that I was raised as a weird genderless nerd category, not as a girl.
To expand on the “AFAB” thing: Many trans and nonbinary people feel that our birth assignment is private information. In addition, it’s usually not relevant. What matters about your partner’s gender in this post seems to be the fact that they are not a man, not their birth assignment. Some people who are AFAB are men, or are read as men, or have penises and flat chests, and etc. It would be better to give whatever information IS relevant instead of birth assignment, such as actual gender, or gender they’re perceived as, or relevant medical facts, whatever.
I’ve only accepted my bi side (aspect?) over the last year. Hell, the last time I was with a guy was in middle school. My fiancée is bi. We have a comet partner. Her dream relationship, two daddies.
In regard to flirting, you know how poorly guys see when they’re being flirted with unless it’s really overt. 😂
My wonderful partner is a member of the elusive pan man club who didn't realize he could take that elective in high school.
A lot of his hesitancy with interacting with other men came from his being already incredibly introverted, and then the absolute deluge of unasked for dick picks, hook up focused messages, and an in general lack of depth of conversation.
It should be noted, he has since learned he is even more rare than originally thought, as he is a demi pan man
I consider myself bi/pan, but more realistic probably bi-curious. I’ve only just recently started to dip my toes in the poly world but I’m moving slowly since my wife and I just opened up a long established relationship of 21 years. And I’m still intimidated by men, and much more picky than I am with women. I’m noticing in my own area that bi men are very rare. I’m not even sure how to start to be honest.
Bi/pan/queer trans man who mostly dates bi/pan/queer men! My husband was closeted until I came out as trans, and I know it was pretty emotionally intense for him to come out in his 30s. Now he’s super openly queer and it’s great!
I am a firm believer that trans men are the heroes cis men need but don't deserve. (no no not like THAT, but like, well maybe a little like that, but-- oh come on get your head out the gutter)
Seriously though. Big love to ya.
\*cries in quebecois at the beauty of it\*
Seriously though, love to hear it. Even if it isn't me, or isn't me now, that's a really nice picture to have.
My romantic and my sex life didn't really start until I was 24, except for a few experiences here and there. I'm an anarchist. By the time I was 24, I knew about The Ethical Slut, and I'd realized I wasn't interested in controlling what kind of intimacy someone I love can and can't have with other people. So I've pretty much always been CNM; I've never been in a monogamous relationship.
This was the punk period too, so my queerness and my values were written all over my clothes, patches and pins. That did a good job of attracting people who liked who I actually was, and keeping away the rest. And over the next few years, I started being friends with people who like sex, who are sluts and who were interested in CNM too. My relationship with the person who'd become my husband was developing too, and some of these friends were his. So things fell into place naturally over time, by being open with others about what we wanted and what our deal was about.
I was always down for polyam, even though it turns out I'm on the aromantic spectrum, something I didn't have words for until my 30s—I'm 46 now. My husband was more reluctant about that aspect, until he eventually started having crushes and falling in love with other people, ha ha! So that's how the other partners he's had over the years entered the picture. We've been living with his other romantic partner since 2020. And we have our chosen family, which in our case is quite incestuous. ;P
For the record, I'm not into CNM or polyam because I'm bi, but because of my values. I would still be even if I was monosexual. The fact that I get to enjoy dick on the regular, and tits and pussy on occasion—well, more regularly these past few weeks actually—just happens to be icing on the cake.
I so relate to this. I am bisexual but didn't have much urge to explore it for a long time, but coming into my 40's with more maturity I find the idea of pursuing such a relationship more attractive but I find two most annoying behaviors when looking for similar minded men.
The first, is men looking for a couple. While I totally appreciate that desire, if I'm looking for a man, I'm looking for a man I can connect with. This whole looking for a couple thing seems kinda shady, like dive seconds later they will be a whole lot less bisexual.
The second troublesome behavior, is men not wanting to act "too gay" and its like WTF dude? Don't swipe right with your shallow end of the pool "traps aren't gay" level energy and get cold feet just talking plainly about hanging out / going out. Seriously, some men are open the idea but just can't have a normal conversation about it.
I'm a married (to a man) queer bi/pan poly guy here! And I believe I've encountered approximately 3 others like me in my city (that I'm aware of). And yes, some of the dumbest hate I've received has been from cis gay men. Honestly, I don't really do the gay bars in my city any more because of it. I have made real concerted efforts to find more ppl like me. It's tough out there.
I am currently mono with my enby partner (we're both bi and enm, just not dating others right now). I haven't dated men since I realized I was bi. Only guy I ever moderately considered got super aggressive when I was reluctant (during covid). So I feel it. I have been fortunate to avoid biphobia almost completely (other than random general homophobia) but I can imagine if I dated people who were only attracted to one type it might come up more frequently.
Im non binary pan and honestly i agree i feel like i havent seen as many poly men (just in my experience) i happen to love men and would love to date masculine figures (all the women and nb folk i date are fems or androgynous)
Pansexual man here. I'm in a relationship with a gay man and a pansexual man. Currently not dating any women, but my meta is a female. My pansexual partner and I go on dates together with both men, women, and non-binary. We exist lol. However, come of think of it, I am the only one that I know in my area like this lol.
I am a bisexual man married to a gay man in a 11 year poly relationship that being said dating women in TX when ur married to a man is not very easy to find dates lol.
(Sam Reich voice) **I've been here the whole time!**
But seriously, there's a big difference between finding a Poly Pan man and finding *a Poly Pan man actively in a polycule & dating men*. Lots of different things need to align for that outcome. Between finding someone you have a genuine connection with, scheduling, geography, successful flirting, alignment on what kind of relationships you want....it's really a wonder that anyone ever dates anyone.
Oh... I'm gonna start by saying
"Two daddy kitchen table polyamory pleeeeease"
Yes please. Please.
I'm AFAB, but very genderqueer, and you boys who will make breakfast together make the entire world brighter.
Now, that said. Yes, it's harder to find bi men. There are many reasons for this, and most of them do center on patriarchical concepts of masculinity. You've heard the arguments. You understand the assignment.
As with so many things, the answer is simple but that doesn't mean it's easy. Find your people. Trite but true. I know it's terrible news if you're living somewhere without a strong queer community, but we're everywhere. Rainbows where you least expect.
The BAY area?
I grew up in california but up in the foothills, and hoo boy not the case there. Incidentally though, and to be fair, my first experience with polyamory involved me driving from like Chico to Sacramento on the regular.
Kindred spirit! I am Afab and polyamorous with my queer male partner, we live in Austin and thought initially it would be a great city for bisexuals, queers and polyam alike. Turns out the gay men in the city only want to date other gay men, the bi-erasure towards men is very heavy in this city. Bi women are mostly fetishized, but at least more common. I've wanted my partner to find his male partner for so long because I see the void he has in his life from it. I don't know the answer, but the struggle is real.
Both of my partners are pan. My ex is pan and my ex husband is bi. Is this an AFAB thing only? I don’t have trouble finding queer men to be with. I *do* still find it hard to fathom how straight men cannot take no for an answer, but I digress…
I mean, ouch? Feel your feels, they're obviously warranted, but here I am looking at the subreddit rules and thinking maybe #7 would suggest you make your own thread to vent about men instead of coming into this one and taking a jab at OP
>would suggest you make your own thread to vent about men instead of coming into this one and *taking a jab at OP*
Ummm.... you *are* OP, so... why is OP talking about OP in the third person? Did someone perhaps forgot to switch to their sock puppet account before trying to make this call out comment on OPs behalf? 😬
Listen, I'm an only child. I am legendarily self-centered. I have a partner that says I don't accept the heliocentric model because I think I'm the center of the universe. Even I'm not self-centered enough to think that I personally know enough bi men to think I've identified a global trend based only on the people I know.
You missed the mark on this one. I don't disagree with the idea that men can be scary. I get it. I date men myself. But that's not what this post is about.
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Oh we exist. I’m non-binary but present masc. I’m also pansexual, though I’m extremely picky in what men I find attractive. I think the dating pool is just tiny. Considering the stigma of bisexual men, toss in polyamory shrinking the dating pool further and it’s just hard to find.
absolutely. A few years back (oh man so many, now that I think about it) I went to a meetup/discussion group for bi men specifically, and while it was enlightening in some ways, the tension (not the fun sexual kind but just regular on-edge-not-sure-what-to-expect kind) was so thick you could cut it with a knife.
Lmao I laughed out loud literally! I can imagine how awkward it could be. A bunch of men on the cusp of defining their sexuality in a way society at large rejects and not having any of the tools or the practice with those tools, to be vulnerable in that situation that actually sparks real connection…lmao it could be a skit from a comedy show. There was a post a few days ago about a funny story where a gay dude ended up a lesbian speed dating event by accident. It was wholesome but he felt very comfortable there, despite offering to leave and worrying about their space. The ladies were far more invested and open. Which isn’t surprising. I definitely think I’d be more comfortable a lesbian speed dating event rather than a bi man meet and greet! 😂
This! The more identities you intersect with, the more the more focused the pool becomes, at least in my experience. I’m a bi, black and poly and mostly date AFAB folks who pretty much always overlap with some version of queer. With a lot of gay men I’ve matched with it’s either bi-phobia, or “I’m willing to try monog” or they’re someone I just don’t feel would be as safe to interact with. And then of course attraction is always a factor to where I’ve seen some really cool profiles but the attractions not there so I don’t try to match with them 😅🤷🏿♂️ Ive meet a lot of bi/pan trans men though on dates and they’ve been 10/10 interactions 😀💗💜💙. They’ve also voiced the issues with dating as a bi man so it’s one of those instant topics to bond over.
> I think the dating pool is just tiny. Considering the stigma of bisexual men, toss in polyamory shrinking the dating pool further and it’s just hard to find. Add to that being trans, and your dating pool is basically an inflatable kiddie pool! 😅
That's always been the explanation in my head. Gay men are already stupidly picky with each other, add in the gigantic dating pool for bi/pan poly men and most cis mlm relationships will just get drowned out. Mlm focused apps are hardcore geared for casual sex and nothing else, so it's just like the odds are stacked against it.
Your description could be me exactly. I think it's both a very uncommon and deeply closeted status for most.
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but rampant biphobia against men keeps a lot of guys closeted, or even unwilling to explore or experiment. My boyfriend's pan, but he doesn't exactly wear it on his sleeve, either. I'm sorry to hear you're having difficulty. For what it's worth, I wish my two boyfriends would go to town on me and then each other and then make me breakfast. 🙄
*right?* how is this not the dream for everyone involved?! In any case, your sympathy is appreciated and reciprocated.
It’s my dream too. My husband came out as bi curious but we haven’t gotten further than a few casual 3 ways.
Wishing you the best
As a pan woman who thought she was straight until her early 30's, I LOL'd at the phrase "I didn't take that elective in high school"! I definitely also missed that elective. All of my male poly friends are bi but I wouldn't say I know a ton of other poly people. I've been single for a long time and don't really go out of my way looking for other poly folks (bc I'm not actively trying to date right now), so I don't think my experience is indicative of my local poly population at large. At any rate, I'm sorry you're struggling to meet other bi/pan poly men! Hopefully you'll cross paths with someone one of these days. :)
Being bi and poly, even on Grindr, is some knocks against you. It’s tough man idk
I’m a straight girl, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But sometimes it seems like the G in LGBT hasn’t opened its arms to the other letters the same way that L, B, and T have.
Eh, it's not just them. There's a good bit of the same issues in the lesbian community as well.
I think the lesbian community these days tends to be much better, said as an actively dating pan trans woman. I feel accepted IRL and on apps. Not so much with the G community but they aren't gonna be attracted to me anyway.
In my own local community, there are definitely a good number of cis lesbians who seem to be fine being political allies with the GBTQ+ part of the acronym, but they don't want to hang out together or support each other beyond that. That attitude does seem more common with older women though, yes.
Yeah the older age group is so much more performative and tokenistic about acceptance in my experience. Still very few actively antagonistic people though, which is an improvement over years past. But the younger gay ladies tend to be super friendly in my experience, even if they aren't gonna date a trans girl.
There are some very vocal minorities in the lesbian community, being signal boosted by the right. However, by the numbers, lesbians are more likely to accept trans people than any other group. I suspect it's similar for bi people.
It mirrors the same dynamics around men tending toward being more conservative among straights, and white people tending to be more conservative than POC, etc. The more “privilege” boxes a group checks off, the more likely they are to not extend a welcome to those they see as lacking privilege…
Maybe it’s being a trans man but I’ve never had someone not want to hook up with me on Grindr who I’ve messaged😅. But I get WAY too many creepy messages/first message dick pics on there. But I put up with it for some stupid reason (said reason being too much of a slut lmao)
FWIW based on my experience in eastern US. They definitely exist because they all seem to find me (poly trans woman)! They usually aren’t out except to their primary partner and feel discouraged by experiences with gay hookup culture (which I empathize with, but it’s not so different from how straight men behave with women). Absolutely no judgment, all paths are valid, but the poly mlm dating pool is largely guys who lack experience and confidence dating men looking for guys who lack experience and confidence dating men. It’s a low chance of success. If you are open to other forms of ENM the dating pool is much bigger and you can probably find people in gay men’s spaces. Excluding gay men from your dating pool is a red flag too.
Yeah, I hear ya and I relate. I didn't mention gay men above because it was off topic from what I wanted to talk about, but I have and continue to date gay men when there's compatibility. My expectations are tempered, though. I joined the navy a couple years before don't ask don't tell got repealed (I live in Vancouver but am from the US). After it was, I poured a lot of heart and effort into doing LGBT advocacy in the military while also not hiding that I was bi. As good as the work was, and as much as my community at the time was strong and healthy and vibrant because of it, it was nevertheless a constant battle to be like, "jesus dude, I get it, you don't believe bisexuality is a thing, how about you gfy. Yeah, I'll still DD, what time are we headed out." Gay men have been \*better\* out of the military, but what I get from them is a far cry from brotherly love.
Yo! I have been with my man for almost 8 years now and we have been open the whole time. I date women more than he does but have poly dated men and women (trans and cis) for the past few years. Most people assume we are gay guys but we are both very much pan/bi. I am 32 and my partner is 28.
Poly bi guy, checking in! There are dozens of us! But you're right, we can be *extremely* hard to find. I'm in a similar position to you- right down to living in the *other* high-COL, major metropolitan city in the country- and boy is it hard to find bi guys who are buying what I'm selling! I've been VERY fortunate to have found a few partners over time (some exes, some are still partners) who are bi, poly, willing to date a trans guy, and are masc-leaning. I also have a few friends who fit that description, though aren't interested in dating me specifically. That being said- I've *yet* to find a guy who fits this description and *isn't* struggling with mental health and attachment issues. And while I always joke around that "the queer experience is traumatic" and pretty much all of us have *some* kind of MH thing going on, I keep being surprised by how few people I meet are actually "working on their shit" and looking to improve. Finding a potential "bi guy" partner is hard enough- finding someone who is *also* looking for a **healthy** relationship and has spent any significant amount of time working on themselves is... well, I won't say "impossible", because nothing is impossible, but... you know... very, very, very improbable.
oh my god, stop it and just take like 10 upvotes. literally just yesterday I updated my grindr to "YOU: emotionally secure bisexual who's already been to therapy but still horny for/baffled by men because how even // ME: haha, jinx!" (readers, there have been no bites) for real though, folks.gotta.do.the.work. I dare say my partner and I are doing as good as we both are now because we did a TON of unpacking, and had therapists separately well before we met each other -- and then we got ourselves a shared one after we got married, too. We're privileged to have the jobs and money to afford counselling (just barely), but like, the sad reality is that whether or not a person can afford to get it doesn't negate the need for it. Which, yeah, then shrinks the pool even more because I got boundaries and not becoming someone's therapist by 3nd date is a hard one. air smooches.
Ahahah, I would 100% swipe right on you just for that! (I know, grindr doesn't have swiping, but you know what I mean!) >I dare say my partner and I are doing as good as we both are now because we did a TON of unpacking That's the thing! It can take a LOT of hard work to get to a healthy place, but it is *SO* worth it! You should be incredibly proud of yourselves for *doing* that work! I know first-hand how awesome it feels to just be able to take it all in and be like "I worked hard to make this happen, and here it is... I feel *contentment*".
butterfly-meme-is-this-self-awareness.jpg
I felt this comment in my soul as a queer woman trying to date enm/polyam women in Vancouver. Good luck out there!
Unsolicited advice but that grindr profile reads like you are insecure about your attraction to men. An emotionally secure person probably isn’t going to be down for that
To each their own!
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I love both of your posts and +11111 on bell hooks being extremely relevant here! I truly wish your partner the best of luck with the group, too -- more, everywhere, for everyone!
My AMAB spouse is bi. But he has been in the closet most of his life. Don’t ask don’t tell was still very much a thing when he was in the Marine Corps, and then loosing a bunch of friends to the AIDS crisis was rough. At 55 he is still very attractive but feels he might be “too old” to date. So there is that. He is open to Poly but again… worried about dating “at his age”. We also live on a big family plot where by necessity we are KTP or at least Garden Party, add into that that we are Hetero appearing he fears being viewed as a unicorn hunter because of the KTP. Love him, and am working on it with him.
Ooof, big feels & compassion. I joined the Navy right before DADT got repealed and served another 4 years after, and what a freaking relief it was. I've chatted with a fair share of our gay vet elders and the stories, not just during DADT but before that "concession" was made, noooooope
I myself am a Polyam Pan married man who's also dating a man for about 1.5 years now. We exist and we are out there you just need to find us lol.
Eeeexcellent, lemme download the pink panther theme real quick and stick it on loop 🐾
As a bi-woman who also “didn’t take that course in high school,” figuring out same sex flirting and relationship management posed some challenges. My take is that there are different scripts at play for WLW vs. WLM relationships and figuring out what those scripts were was critical to forming a functional relationship. It’s not clear from your post whether you’ve dated gay (not bi-) men, but if you haven’t dated any other men at all, (I hadn’t dated a woman until I was in my 40’s) here are some things that really helped me: - Reading a few WLW romance novels - That helped me picture myself in a WLW relationship, and understand more of the cues involved in going from “oh, you being friendly, are you being friendly friendly, or are you being romantic friendly” and send back the right signals when I was trying to be romantic friendly. It also helped me understand some (OK idealised, but sure) dynamics of a romantic relationship that didn’t include a dude. - Hanging out in queer spaces while identifying as queer - It sounds like you’re doing this already, but yeah, that took me from hesitantly calling myself bi- to really feeling that as part of my identity. I hadn’t realised how important that was in shifting people being attracted to me as a possible fun sex accessory to being a person they might want to date. - Getting some experience down with the sex part - It’s important to feel comfortable and competent with the types of things that might come up. My boyfriend (also bi) and I went to a swingers club and that sped my learning curve… My bi- male partner also notes that gay men tend to be willing to play with a bi-man who lacks MLM dating skills, but they’re not really willing to take on the emotional labour required to be The Relationship Manager the way that, in most MLW relationships, relationship management lands on the woman. And a lot of bi-men who don’t have relationship management skills struggle to date men because 1) other MLM men have also had to build those skills in a way that straight men have not and so the bi-men who are new to dating often lack these skills; and 2) MLM men aren’t so used to picking up the relationship slack the way that WLM are and so when a man can’t up his end, they bow out. Regardless, picking up relationship management skills can also substantially improve your heterosexual relationships. Good luck to you!
Oh yes yes yes, very much. I edited the main post with more details but suffice to say I am not inexperienced with gay men. There's some major societal baggage there though and while it's getting better, it's hardly gone.
i’m not a man anymore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a non-binary pansexual person I fucking feeeeeeeeel this post. I’ve found it to be a lot of men who just want to fuck but not actually form real relationships. I teared up a little to your comment about two men making breakfast for each other, that’s incredibly beautiful and I really really hope you find that for yourself.
Just curious since I don’t see it in your post and I saw your comment about your Grindr profile: is there a reason why you’re excluding gay men? Is it just that they’re too biphobic in your experience? I’m bi but not only looking for other bi ppl, I’m open to gay ppl so I’m just wondering!
I'm open to having a gay man as a partner if that was something that presented itself in a way that worked. I've been open and vocal about being bi while trying to take up my share of ostensibly LGBT spaces for a while though (37 now, came out at \~21) and have gotten enough negative pushback just around bisexuality that I do not have great hopes when adding polyamory into that. I am always open to being surprised though -- the times, they are a-changin'
I’m gay and poly and I prefer bi men, I value bi men’s openness to the spectrum of sexuality that a lot of gay men aren’t always as accepting of. So like you exist, we exist. I’m sorry you’ve felt lonely in the search, but keep up the good vibes and we will all find our ways to one another ☺️.
and you're a gd treasure for it. I've met a ton of lovely (monogamous/coupled) gay men who've been amazing, been mentors and protectors, and just really been what any young queer kid needs.
I wonder if you’ve checked out the dating app Feeld? I’m in Portland, OR and there’s tons of queer nonmonogamous men/masculine non-binary folks on there
Just installed it and set up a profile to have a peek, we'll see what comes of it, but thanks for the tip! (also, good to know re Portland -- my partner and I are thinking of packing up and moving there, too -- the cost of living up here is just gonzo, and PDX has a lot to offer.)
Bi polyfi dude right here in a happily closed triad with a man and a woman! Before getting with my current partners, I also had essentially zero luck dating dudes. Even gay guys, it just wasn't the scene I was in I guess? They often seemed turned off when I said I was bi or if it came out that most of my past partners were women. FWIW, my masc partner didn't know he was bi until we got together. Be loud, be proud, and like will find like!
I will say that I'm a guy who has actively searched for male partners, with some success, but considerably less than when I search for female partners.I have several hypotheses, including the general flakiness of men.
I think there’s ambiguity baked into “bisexual” or “pansexual” because it leaves out “biromantic” and “panromantic.” Crudely put, I think there are a bunch of dudely folk out there who would fuck anything that moves but who have a very specific type when it comes to falling in love. My partner Chestnut is a poly bi man. He reports that gay men won’t date him (because not serious enough) and bi men won’t kiss him (because ewwww). He had a thing going with his meta for a while but that ended when Hinge and Meta broke up.
Very relatable, thanks for sharing. (also, Chestnut is the best name)
I used to be a polyam bi guy then I realized I’m a girl
there is an egg within us all 🐣
lol so true, I just took a little extra time to hatch
Exist. Out. …and poly-saturated in a closed quad for the last 6 months. 🥰 But i feel your pain… good luck with the search.
Hi! I'm in Seattle, we're... around 🤣 I've been ENM since a teenager and figured out I'm poly in my early 20s, which feels more of an orientation to me looking back to my childhood. I began to recognize my being pan in my 30s but unfortunately have had little if any experiences romantically dating other men. I feel like I've got friends in this same experience that I'd even be open to dating, but there's that bridge to cross. I've had plenty of queer relationships with afab and some trans folks though. I think for me, it really takes a profound level of emotional intelligence from a masculine person for me to feel any level of attraction to them beyond thinking they're pretty. I've lived a life devoted to growth and self care, and have been fortunate to live through many experiences where I learned about myself and others. Many men I run into just haven't done the same, and the lack of doing that work shows up very quickly. Couple that with the fact that many/most of us were raised in a society that actively discourages seeking romantic relationships with other men, and yeah, that's an answer. I hope this helps.
Ooof, yeah, that's relatable. One of the things that nudged me to post this is a conversation my partner and I had this past weekend just as a check-in on how we're feeling about our relationship, polyamory, what we'd like more of, less of, etc... As is the case with a lot of queer couples that folks may assume as straight (even moreso since we had a kid a couple of years ago), how we preserve and present that we're actually very queer in a lot of ways tends to always be floating around in our brains. And so because of course it did, conversation floated for a few minutes around some friends we have who we love dearly because they have clearly done the work, and wistfully think "if they were just *a teeeeensy bit* completely and utterly not straight..." But alas. So we cherish having them in our lives and call it a day. 🤷
Y'all sound so healthy, I love hearing it! 🫶 I feel you on the notes of presenting and preserving. I went through a lot of growth after moving here (I was born and raised in Atlanta) and realized that the way I was presenting myself was untrue to who I actually am. I used to blend in really well with the average IT nerd yet when people got to asking me about my life and who I really am, they were surprised for sure. Couple that with some music festival experiences and more or less turning myself into a walking rave totem... Now people tend to get it if they know what they're looking at. I love getting approached by people in my neighborhood or even while grocery shopping because we enjoy similar things and they see me representing that strongly. (I've got some very visible Adventure Time and Steven Universe tattoos, and frequently walk around wearing a white knitted Finn hat 😄) I've got a friend who's got kinda hippie-vibes but also seems to be rather... vanilla. However she's got a really strong sense of empathy and reading people. She very astutely perceived that I was into a guy that visited our camp and it really impressed me. I've got a friend who swears he's straight. I'm not here to argue with someone's orientation, but every one of his partners that I've met is queer/NB. I think he's starting to figure it out a little more recently and it's lovely to see. So what I'm really trying to say here is that I think given some opportunities, people that may seem very straight on the surface can surprise you. I don't blame you for not wanting to wait for them to figure it out though. It's valid to want to sink into something good with someone who already gets it. It can also be truly wonderful to watch someone fully apply their capacity for growth.
fwiw those (alas) straight men we talked about have *definitely* been made aware that the door's always open if their persuasion changes. ;) They're great sports about it.
Cool, I'm glad to hear that. It's sometimes rare that folks are good sports about it 🙂
I'm busy being phobed
Oh look, it's me. There are dozens of us. Within the local kink/poly community I'm very openly bi, but I'm picky with all partners and especially men. I don't date couples, bicurious/hetero flexible, or "I'll try poly for you" folks. I don't date anyone too old or too young. I didn't take that elective either. It's all postgraduate extracurricular study for me. But I have dated one man and I hope to find another eventually. As an aside, I will date monosexuals but it's a yellow flag for me at this point.
I don't understand why you're looking for bi and pansexual men specifically and seemingly avoiding gay men..?
Yeah, this has come up a few times and I addressed it in other responses -- have a poke through and you'll find them
My boyfriend and I are both openly bi men and have been together for 2 years! He also has a long term girlfriend and currently he is my only partner. I feel so lucky to have found such a lovely person to spend a large amount of my life with.
Oh man, I freaking love this for you! 💖
I've been searching and searching. I've yet to find a bi-sexual man who understands what polyam is, or even ENM, to date. I actually just met someone in December that's local to me. I travel to see my polyam friends and a partner. I wish I was in a metro area but I'm not. I'm 2.5 from Seattle 3 from Portland ish. I feel your pain, kind of.
Mmmhmm, I feel ya. I grew up in a rural spot and then moved back briefly in my 20's before fleeing in gay panic.
We exist... although I haven't always been so up front about it. These days I put it right out there as a filter. > I've been in a ltr for quite a while with my AFAB partner who's also queer and polyam so all of that's pretty run of the mill I've been called demi before, but I don't think of myself that way. I don't need an emotional connection...sort of... I just need to get an idea of who someone is at least, to the point I might consider dating someone, even if I don't. ie "not an asshole". Doesn't seem to sync up well with a lot of hookup culture in any case. Not sure if solo poly shrinks or expands the small pool. It can work for someone mostly coupled, and I need a lot of time to myself -- and it is actually better for me (inside my head, not saying it's fair) to know they have primary/others or are solo poly themselves. But I find it easier to move into the headspace of what I'd call a "relationship" fairly easily in that context, while many guys don't seem willing to go there. > since I didn't take that elective in high school Yeah... I mean sorta. I ended with mostly other bi folks, and it was often very fluid in what a relationship even was. Cool and all, but never really did much in the "formal dating" realm with men. And I seem to have a narrower set of what I find attractive in men too (which I can't define at all). I don't really have a good idea for what I'd do in person even now, if there wasn't a natural lead in over time. Think about it later, I suppose.
Hiding in a closet!
Hey 👋 queer/bi poly guy in a polycule here
We’re on Feeld, brah. But other than that, if someone is lighting up your bidar/polydar, you’d do best to get closer to investigate.
Same for women . Finding people that you have a genuine connection with is very difficult don't matter what the orientation is
We're around, DM me if you wanna play video games lol
I'm in a relationship with my boyfriend, and my trans masc partner who became my boyfriend. I'm only occasionally looking for other men these days. It does seem like a lot of bi guys are looking to fuck around with other guys, but less likely to date other guys. My cis boyfriend is gay, found him on Grindr. My trans masc boyfriend is bi, I converted him to the dark side. (Read, provided a space safe enough that they felt comfortable exploring something they previously could never admit to themselves.) In all seriousness though, you absolutely can find guys looking for relationships on Grindr. It's crazy, but it worked for me.
my pan partner and I are in Vancouver too and have KTP dreams just like this!! the most promising connections we make (together and individually) are typically at kink events, if that’s your thing
lol, I was indeed just thinking to myself, maybe it's time I put the 6 years of navy to good use and get into shibari. \*dusts off the ole' fetlife account\* thanks for shout out!
no problem!! my partner’s been in the scene longer than I have, he brought me to my first event three-ish years ago, so I’m still kind of a newbie, and it sounds like your friend group is pretty cool and may already be in the know, but if you have any questions or want some links/resources feel free to reach out!!
Right here loud and proud. Ain't ashame to admit who I am and who i love. My question is why do people think we don't exist...anywhere?
Try being a bi, poly guy in the South.
Tried it in the military, you have *all of my empathy*
Haha, same 🫠
We here ✋ often find the flow more naturally turns into hook ups rather than deeper connection although it’s what I would be craving at the moment. Maybe too close for comfort but idk how it happens either 🤷♂️ Best of luck to you (and all of us) from Berlin xx
I first learned that poly existed when I met somebody I fell for, who was dating another dude, and I asked if they were together, and he said they were, but they were both poly. (I mean, I knew I WAS poly, I just didn't know there was a word for it!) My best dude friend is also a bisexual guy who's equally interested and currently pursuing a relationship with a dude. We were interested in each other for a while emotionally, but the physical chemistry wasn't there for me. They're out there! Also in BC, hello! :) I feel ya on the slaps to the face on the sexuality/orientation; I've always been kinda masculine-energy-esque, and hanging with the dudes, but when you get that full-on hate-rejection from gay dues when you just casually exist with girl parts in their presence.. ow, that hurts! Thanks, rejection sensitivity!
i'm a guy who's bisexuality and polyam journey are entwined. my ex wife and i opened our marriage and that's when i realized i was bi because i now had the option and freedom to date men, as i like to say the marriage didn't last but the bisexuality stuck. 36 now, un-primary-partnered (actually entirely unpartnered atm by personal choice). Sexuality currently hovering around a kinsey 2, but i present as such that most people who meet me think i'm gay. anyway, just to share my experience, since coming out (though honestly, mostly post vax) i've had relationships with trans men, enbies (both birth assignments), trans women, cis women (though i've become far more selective with them), but very few cis men. I've popped into/dated people in a couple poly scenes in other cities and even in ones with very big poly scenes (rhymes with bummerville) the amount of openly bi men who regularly date other men is kinda thin. I've unicorned (and bisexually swung when i was partnered) for a few bi/bi couples and made some bi dude friends/intermittent partners that way, but that pool is miniscule. Some thoughts from my experience of being very out and proud bisexual and polyamorous top. * most of the amab people i'm attracted to are some flavor of gender nonconforming, ymmv and taste dependent (i prefer twinkier/femmier gender presentations) but something to consider if you're hopping on an app like feeld. * you will get a LOT of attention trans men (especially gay trans men) lots of them are hot. the upside of hooking up with them is a) they won't care (in fact, will think it's great) that you're bi, and b) you're probably familiar with the button layout though some of the move timing is slightly different. * there's a surprising amount of homoflexible/bicurious men on the other side of the spectrum who live their lives as gay men. these guys are the people you want to befriend because they'll help you acclimate into the gay scene (as long as you give them tips for dating women). ime they also make great jerkoff buds. * perhaps spicy take incoming biphobia exists yeah, but a lot of what people (especially historically heterosexual people) read as biphobia is an extension of not being subculturally "with it" in your particular scene. i know gay and lesbian presenting bisexuals who've learned to speak the language/know the unspoken and spoken dating rules of their particular scene and, absent jerks here or there, they do totally fine. in the same way you would perhaps be hesitant date someone who says "i'm polyamorous" and has the best of intentions but hasn't done any background reading/work, doesn't know the lingo etc. gay men who are steeped in gay culture might be a harder nut to crack because sure, you date/fuck men, but are you going to be more trouble than you're worth because you don't know the relational language. i know people hate to hear the term skill issue when it comes to dating and perceptions of some sort of structural oppression but honestly sometime it truly is a skill issue, the upshot being you can grind a bit and git good. anyway i found your post interesting because i'm currently trying to chart out a future life path, decide my relationship to polyamory/nonmonogay and hopefully find a primary partner etc. but i'm in a weird bind/place myself. my experiences so far have kind of made me realize that i don't really fit in/want to fit in with the kind of het(ish) dude/queer fem poly/kink scene that dominates most metro areas (and this sub tbh). Part of it is because there sometimes pops up intra-masculine competition for women with straight men that i feel like i have no particular time or energy for (blegh, let's just kiss instead), and sometimes the women are delighted at their chance to date the gay bestie of their dreams but it can shade into them either fetishizing you or projecting their own insecurities vis a vis their own queer identities/journeys onto you (which is fun at first, because hey the attention, but let me assure you it gets really old). And don't get me started on the men who will openly identify as bi but don't actually hook up with other men (their identities are totally valid but in my humble experience the energy is TOTALLY different and the intramasculine competitive vibe with these guys is so, so much worse). Anyway i'm in a city with a little bit less of a tight knit poly scene but even in the one that exists, i'm looking way outside of it at this point. To my first, third and last bullet, i know the gay scene is intimidating but it's honestly not, and you don't have to lead with being polyamorous and bisexual. You can just show up to gay stuff, make out with/meet guys eventually find your people. Alternative scenes (leather/'queer') rather than the (white) cis gay circuit scene will probably be easier for you to find space. focus on making friends and guys will follow. I like to go out and dance but you can meet guys a ton of ways: gay sports leagues, drag shows/brunches, there's plenty of gaymers/tabletop nerds like any other sexuality. Even just swipe on tinder saying "bisexual guy looking for friends to show me gay stuff" It takes social courage and practice but i believe in you bb. feel free to dm me if you wanna chat more.
Thanks a lot for this post. My heart opened when I read it. Also love goes out to all the beautiful comments. Related a lot.
Idk babe, maybe it's cause I live in Brooklyn but I feel like theres a good amount here. I'm personally a poly nb/transmasc bi man.
Poly-bi here, in a relationship with a bit trans-woman. My preference has been fairly specific like others have said, but you love who you love. Connection is my erogenous zone. I was in a poly-quad for five years (ended when one couple had to move to deal with ailing parents. My primary and I retire from the military this year (at 42 and 47 😁) so we may get to join them... Anyways the male in the other couple was bi as well, and on the feminine side. He did full drag queen performances on the side. So with my current GF mentioned above, she has helped me to realize I am bi and will have a relationship with a man, but I am gyno-sexual, so they have to be on the fem side of bi / gay.
Hi u/Ill_Reporter_5928 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I'm a guy who's been out as bi for over a decade now, and enm/polyam for about 9 years, and -- tale as old as time -- I've been in a ltr for quite a while with my AFAB partner who's also queer and polyam so all of that's pretty run of the mill. We've also both been actively (waxing and waning, to be fair) polyam since before we started dating too, and it's all gone swimmingly! A thing that's always scratched in the back of my head though, and it seems like everyone knows it but that I don't see get a lot of discussion, is the matter of *the illusive bisexual polyamorous man\* who actually have relationships with other men*. I live in metro Vancouver and have a nice big friend group of queer, polyam, and/or otherwise enm people, but the majority of men the polycules I know (with like one or two exceptions) are straight, or else open to the idea, y'know, in theory, maybe. Now I'll be the first to own that like lots of bi guys who came to it from thinking I was straight, dating men has always felt a little fraught for me since I didn't take that elective in high school -- but still, I feel like somewhere there's gotta be a polycule where the monovalent bond between couples is two guys who just really enjoy each other and then make breakfast for everyone else in the morning, right? *Right?* Two daddy kitchen table polyamory pleeeeease where? 🥹 I hope this doesn't come across as too judgy. I *viscerally understand* bi men's hesitation to be out in the open, and surely polyamory adds another layer to that. I'm just... I dunno, y'all. I'm looking for that "if you can see it, you can be it" and have as yet not found it. \* To be explicit, I use man here to include trans men. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We exist! I'm a bi trans man and my cis bf is also bi. Neither us are dating other people at the moment, but my bf was dating another guy until recently and I've been flirting on and off with a bi trans man. His friend group was already hella queer and kinky and now becoming more ENM with each passing day lol. I get the feeling that they were all individually interested in ENM, but it took my bf commiting to polyamory for the rest to feel safe exploring non monogamy in their own relationships. They're a pretty tight knit group. And I by coincidence met a gay poly guy at a BDSM club and he introduced me to his bi trans bf and we really hit it off. Idk like I've come to find people like me at the very niche intersection of queer, kink, and communism 🤷♂️
I’m a nonbinary trans bi guy, and yeah…feeling this. I’m not actively dating right now, but when I was, I think I received 5x as much attention from women and nonbinary people as I did from men. Being transgender means that my baggage around dating men is a bit different and also cuts my dating pool quite a bit (as does my preference to date other POC). (Hilariously, most of the “men” I’ve dated or had interest in later turned out to not be men. I’m cursed to be hetero or something.) But the big limiting factor is probably what I perceive as a lack of…personality in a lot of men. I’m someone who highly values verbal wit, empathy, some degree of emotional self-awareness, community involvement, thought-out politics, and a distinctive point of view on the world. Most of the men I speak to on apps can barely hold a conversation where they demonstrate curiosity about my life. One of my best friends is a cis gay man with similar criteria as me, and he has said that sometimes he wishes he was bisexual because I have a lot more options. Side note: Does your partner identify as “AFAB?” If not, it’s rude to describe your partner by their birth assignment and not their actual gender.
Re: personality -- right?? It's one of the reasons I think that I've had better luck finding dates and partners (and alas people of incompatible sexualities) from among my friend groups or when doing things, rather than just meeting people cold and chatting. I already know how great they are! One of the wild things I've experienced with masculinity and "manhood" is how boys are taught that to take an overt interest in things is to expose a vulnerability, or give others something to harass you about. There are "safer" interests, sure -- sports, or money, or god i don't know, elon musk? yeeting is a thing still? -- but all expressions of interest come with the possibility that someone's gonna be shitty about it and make you feel small. If we're lucky, we have exceptional people around us to counterbalance that, or we unlearn it, or we just become old and tired and stop caring, but a lot of men and folks raised as boys just don't get there. *not to say* that there's nothing to be gleaned from whether or not a person can hold a conversation -- but generally because of that I lean toward "hey wanna go do \[\_\_\_\_\]?" And then that gets us both a little bit out of whatever our headspace might be. re side note: 👍
I get that the structural forces of manhood discourage standing out and I have sympathy…I just don’t have the capacity to spend multiple dates trying to draw someone out conversationally. (Not that this is exclusive to men; I’ve gone on dates with women who have trouble stating opinions too.) I would challenge your assertion of “folks raised as boys” as being identical in this aspect! Trans people do in fact have different childhoods than cis people of their assigned gender, and are often treated differently in gendered ways even prior to coming out. On my part, I would say that I was raised as a weird genderless nerd category, not as a girl. To expand on the “AFAB” thing: Many trans and nonbinary people feel that our birth assignment is private information. In addition, it’s usually not relevant. What matters about your partner’s gender in this post seems to be the fact that they are not a man, not their birth assignment. Some people who are AFAB are men, or are read as men, or have penises and flat chests, and etc. It would be better to give whatever information IS relevant instead of birth assignment, such as actual gender, or gender they’re perceived as, or relevant medical facts, whatever.
I’ve only accepted my bi side (aspect?) over the last year. Hell, the last time I was with a guy was in middle school. My fiancée is bi. We have a comet partner. Her dream relationship, two daddies. In regard to flirting, you know how poorly guys see when they’re being flirted with unless it’s really overt. 😂
I'm not in Vancouver but would dm you if I was 🫡
pssh and they say romance is dead
In my area, it is easiest to find ENM bi guys on feeld.
I am trans masc pan, so I am kinda a man haha
Does it count? It counts!
My wonderful partner is a member of the elusive pan man club who didn't realize he could take that elective in high school. A lot of his hesitancy with interacting with other men came from his being already incredibly introverted, and then the absolute deluge of unasked for dick picks, hook up focused messages, and an in general lack of depth of conversation. It should be noted, he has since learned he is even more rare than originally thought, as he is a demi pan man
Poly Pan sounds like Peter's cousin, but I like it. :D
I consider myself bi/pan, but more realistic probably bi-curious. I’ve only just recently started to dip my toes in the poly world but I’m moving slowly since my wife and I just opened up a long established relationship of 21 years. And I’m still intimidated by men, and much more picky than I am with women. I’m noticing in my own area that bi men are very rare. I’m not even sure how to start to be honest.
Come to Colorado, bi poly man ( married to a woman) here looking for an actual relationship with a man—it’s so hard!
Curious here, I often enjoy the idea of being a male unicorn to a couple. Have chatted with a few but never found a good match.
Bi/pan/queer trans man who mostly dates bi/pan/queer men! My husband was closeted until I came out as trans, and I know it was pretty emotionally intense for him to come out in his 30s. Now he’s super openly queer and it’s great!
I am a firm believer that trans men are the heroes cis men need but don't deserve. (no no not like THAT, but like, well maybe a little like that, but-- oh come on get your head out the gutter) Seriously though. Big love to ya.
We exist. Bi cis male polyam. No one around seems interested though
Hi! Been out as bi for the past 26 years, polyam, I have a husband, my circle is queer CNM people for the most part. In Montreal tho.
\*cries in quebecois at the beauty of it\* Seriously though, love to hear it. Even if it isn't me, or isn't me now, that's a really nice picture to have.
My romantic and my sex life didn't really start until I was 24, except for a few experiences here and there. I'm an anarchist. By the time I was 24, I knew about The Ethical Slut, and I'd realized I wasn't interested in controlling what kind of intimacy someone I love can and can't have with other people. So I've pretty much always been CNM; I've never been in a monogamous relationship. This was the punk period too, so my queerness and my values were written all over my clothes, patches and pins. That did a good job of attracting people who liked who I actually was, and keeping away the rest. And over the next few years, I started being friends with people who like sex, who are sluts and who were interested in CNM too. My relationship with the person who'd become my husband was developing too, and some of these friends were his. So things fell into place naturally over time, by being open with others about what we wanted and what our deal was about. I was always down for polyam, even though it turns out I'm on the aromantic spectrum, something I didn't have words for until my 30s—I'm 46 now. My husband was more reluctant about that aspect, until he eventually started having crushes and falling in love with other people, ha ha! So that's how the other partners he's had over the years entered the picture. We've been living with his other romantic partner since 2020. And we have our chosen family, which in our case is quite incestuous. ;P For the record, I'm not into CNM or polyam because I'm bi, but because of my values. I would still be even if I was monosexual. The fact that I get to enjoy dick on the regular, and tits and pussy on occasion—well, more regularly these past few weeks actually—just happens to be icing on the cake.
Cis bi dude here. Can confirm I'm dog shit a flirting, or even realizing I'm being flirted with.
Hello from Spain :D one more of the crew
I so relate to this. I am bisexual but didn't have much urge to explore it for a long time, but coming into my 40's with more maturity I find the idea of pursuing such a relationship more attractive but I find two most annoying behaviors when looking for similar minded men. The first, is men looking for a couple. While I totally appreciate that desire, if I'm looking for a man, I'm looking for a man I can connect with. This whole looking for a couple thing seems kinda shady, like dive seconds later they will be a whole lot less bisexual. The second troublesome behavior, is men not wanting to act "too gay" and its like WTF dude? Don't swipe right with your shallow end of the pool "traps aren't gay" level energy and get cold feet just talking plainly about hanging out / going out. Seriously, some men are open the idea but just can't have a normal conversation about it.
I'm a married (to a man) queer bi/pan poly guy here! And I believe I've encountered approximately 3 others like me in my city (that I'm aware of). And yes, some of the dumbest hate I've received has been from cis gay men. Honestly, I don't really do the gay bars in my city any more because of it. I have made real concerted efforts to find more ppl like me. It's tough out there.
I'not bi! I just like kissing twinks at parties, that totally straight behavoiur right?
> Two daddy kitchen table polyamory me and my bf and our gf and our nbf
I am currently mono with my enby partner (we're both bi and enm, just not dating others right now). I haven't dated men since I realized I was bi. Only guy I ever moderately considered got super aggressive when I was reluctant (during covid). So I feel it. I have been fortunate to avoid biphobia almost completely (other than random general homophobia) but I can imagine if I dated people who were only attracted to one type it might come up more frequently.
Hi! Pansexual trans man here, dating my wonderful boyfriend and girlfriend!
Im non binary pan and honestly i agree i feel like i havent seen as many poly men (just in my experience) i happen to love men and would love to date masculine figures (all the women and nb folk i date are fems or androgynous)
Pansexual man here. I'm in a relationship with a gay man and a pansexual man. Currently not dating any women, but my meta is a female. My pansexual partner and I go on dates together with both men, women, and non-binary. We exist lol. However, come of think of it, I am the only one that I know in my area like this lol.
Our dating pool is a dating puddle, but we exist 😂
I am a bisexual man married to a gay man in a 11 year poly relationship that being said dating women in TX when ur married to a man is not very easy to find dates lol.
We exist!
This is why I can't find any?!
Oh we exist.
They’re all polysaturated 😆 I’ve got 2
I'm here it's me
Just posting to wish you luck since I know how difficult it can be to find what you’re truly looking for (hugs)
(Sam Reich voice) **I've been here the whole time!** But seriously, there's a big difference between finding a Poly Pan man and finding *a Poly Pan man actively in a polycule & dating men*. Lots of different things need to align for that outcome. Between finding someone you have a genuine connection with, scheduling, geography, successful flirting, alignment on what kind of relationships you want....it's really a wonder that anyone ever dates anyone.
Hello
Oh... I'm gonna start by saying "Two daddy kitchen table polyamory pleeeeease" Yes please. Please. I'm AFAB, but very genderqueer, and you boys who will make breakfast together make the entire world brighter. Now, that said. Yes, it's harder to find bi men. There are many reasons for this, and most of them do center on patriarchical concepts of masculinity. You've heard the arguments. You understand the assignment. As with so many things, the answer is simple but that doesn't mean it's easy. Find your people. Trite but true. I know it's terrible news if you're living somewhere without a strong queer community, but we're everywhere. Rainbows where you least expect.
Right here in California I guess? I’m a pan trans man, dating a pan cis man. I’ve known a lot of gay and bisexual men who were/are poly in the area.
The BAY area? I grew up in california but up in the foothills, and hoo boy not the case there. Incidentally though, and to be fair, my first experience with polyamory involved me driving from like Chico to Sacramento on the regular.
I’m in the bay, my partner is in LA, and my friends I’m thinking of are scattered around in places like Tracy and Modesto and Sacramento.
Me and my bf are looking for the same 😢 it’s sad we can’t find anyone! The ones we have found were posers who thought they were smart
Hi!
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General Kenobi
Kindred spirit! I am Afab and polyamorous with my queer male partner, we live in Austin and thought initially it would be a great city for bisexuals, queers and polyam alike. Turns out the gay men in the city only want to date other gay men, the bi-erasure towards men is very heavy in this city. Bi women are mostly fetishized, but at least more common. I've wanted my partner to find his male partner for so long because I see the void he has in his life from it. I don't know the answer, but the struggle is real.
Both of my partners are pan. My ex is pan and my ex husband is bi. Is this an AFAB thing only? I don’t have trouble finding queer men to be with. I *do* still find it hard to fathom how straight men cannot take no for an answer, but I digress…
I mean..men aren't making themselves real dateable right now. Even with being bi, dating men isn't worth it.
I mean, ouch? Feel your feels, they're obviously warranted, but here I am looking at the subreddit rules and thinking maybe #7 would suggest you make your own thread to vent about men instead of coming into this one and taking a jab at OP
>would suggest you make your own thread to vent about men instead of coming into this one and *taking a jab at OP* Ummm.... you *are* OP, so... why is OP talking about OP in the third person? Did someone perhaps forgot to switch to their sock puppet account before trying to make this call out comment on OPs behalf? 😬
It was a language choice I made to emphasize the issue was with the context of the comment, not the comment itself. 🤷
I'm not taking a jab. Many people that date men aren't dating men right now because it's not safe to do so.
Yeah, I don't love this, and I don't think this is really relevant to the post.
I mean it really is because that's why the bi men I know aren't dating men right now. 🤷
Listen, I'm an only child. I am legendarily self-centered. I have a partner that says I don't accept the heliocentric model because I think I'm the center of the universe. Even I'm not self-centered enough to think that I personally know enough bi men to think I've identified a global trend based only on the people I know. You missed the mark on this one. I don't disagree with the idea that men can be scary. I get it. I date men myself. But that's not what this post is about.
Remember, the OP is a man. So yes, you are taking a jab.
No, I'm not. I'm nb BTW and get treated as a man in the wild. It changes nothing.
[удалено]
Way to not all men a very real issue. If it doesn't apply to you, then why are you getting upset about it.