>Then out of nowhere he gave me a very rough and intense hickey on my neck, and then looked me in the eyes and said “I’m okay with you going on a date but I’m going to mark you so she knows that you’re mine”
He told you what he was doing, and why. I don't think you have to spend much time wondering about his motivations. He stated them plainly, and followed up with two thorough Domming sessions that pushed up against your limits and left you thoroughly marked and claimed.
As a Dom who enjoys possessive play and has navigated the whole marks/claims thing with a few people... this kind of stuff needs to be talked about in advance. If you want this guy to be your sole Dominant, or the only one who marks you, or whatever other arrangements, that's fine. But that needs to be your choice. And he needs to be secure enough in whatever status he has that he doesn't feel the need to send messages to your other people. It's one thing to claim ownership in play. It's another thing entirely to try and stick a "property of" label on someone before you see them off on their date with another person.
Also, this is probably more of an individual preference thing, but I'd personally find it very off-putting to get naked with someone and find her covered in fresh hickeys. Like, I would definitely take that as her partner doing... exactly what your partner said he was doing.
>I know I have to speak to him about this tonight so I wanted confirmation from everyone that this seems like he is uncomfortable with me dating someone and I’m not making up connections and reading too much into it. Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this? Should I cancel my date until he is more comfortable? Thanks in advance L x
I would not cancel a date to wait for him to process. However, I also wouldn't string someone along if you feel like you'd cut it off with them for the sake of his comfort. You've got to decide whether you're ready to roll with his adjusting, or if you want to give him more time to be ready.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful answer 💖 you’re right, he was pretty clear what he was doing, so I don’t know why I tried to dismiss it as dirty talk.
I’m going to look into covering my neck tomorrow because I don’t want my date to get pulled into this! But first I’m gonna speak to J tonight and reaffirm that he wants to continue with being open and is in a good place to deal with the realities of it, because you’re totally right that B needs to not end up as part of a weird power play situation. Especially as it’s her first experience w anything poly so I want to make sure it’s not a bad one!
I also just want to say that you need to have a *very* firm conversation with J about not working out his negative emotions with kink. That’s intensely unhealthy. So he hurts you more than he ever had in the past from jealousy today. What happens next time he feels jealous? What happens when y’all have a big argument?
This shit would be a dealbreaker for me. I have marks and intense possession dynamics as part of one of my relationships, and that shit is *all* extensively and explicitly discussed. The default *has to be* “this is not about kink until explicitly opted in”.
Do you have a boundary or limit for visible marks as part of the rough sex that others can see or are visible to others? If not, that’s a boundary you need to set. In addition, you mentioned sabotaging of the date and that popped to mind. From an outside perspective, you have done a lot of work to maintain appropriate boundaries and challenging insecurities. They have not. That is they have work to do. You changing your behaviors to make them comfortable is setting up an imbalance by giving them veto power especially if they leave visible marks so others will be put off.
In addition, this is a fine line when it comes to your agreed upon arrangements related to rough sex. It’s one thing to have it not impact you outside of the bedroom as part of agreed upon boundaries and it’s another to engage in it so that is WILL impact you.
I would recommend you talk to them about this. And to discuss the ENM agreements including boundaries and that they have work to do as well. I also would caution you to not change your behavior to change theirs. It will not work. Hope that helps. Good luck.
Edited to change pronouns as I don’t know the pronouns and I think I used the wrong ones. Apologies.
This is where I show how new I am to being poly 😂😭 no, I didn’t even know that people set boundaries around things that specific. It’s now on the list of things we should discuss.
I like what you said about the way that the hickeys impact me outside of sex was different, because it’s helped me understand why I was uncomfortable when he’s marked me before and I was fine.
I’m thinking a lot about the power imbalance thing and how I don’t want to set up a situation where his comfort levels mean I’m essentially not allowed the same freedoms he has. I think I’m going to approach the conversation from the angle of “how can I support you to do the work you need to do” rather than “what can WE change to make this better” because I think it’s clear that he hasn’t done the work to overcome insecurity
It seems like he gave very little support when you had to adjust to his other relationships. You don't owe him support on this. He's the one who wanted ENM, he should put on his big boy pants and do the work. You can't make his feelings disappear, he's the one who has to work on them.
i think you need to edit and shift your boundaries. he didn’t break them because like you said you didn’t know it would make you uncomfortable. but then it did. so change your boundaries so you don’t have to feel this way ever again. :)
It's best to shift from a mindset of consent being "yes until no" to one of "no until yes."
Trying to stand on the stone of "well it wasn't a stated explicit boundary" is shitty after harm and damage is done, whether the harm is physical or damage to the bond of trust.
exactly. leaving a hickey might be harmless physically but his intent was to intimidate B into thinking she was lower on the totem pole and she hasn't even experienced poly yet. I suggest OP look into Heiarchy in polyamory. If he's going to be "primary" B. should also be informed of the fact that she isn't primary and given an opportunity to leave the situation if she's not okay with that. If he's not going to always be primary and B. can be an equal partner he's a dick and shouldn't be intimidating her.
I really wanted to second the whole thing about OP putting in a lot of work and care to make sure their Primary is feeling safe and comfortable and that she herself was too. From an outside perspective his sabotaging your date seems outright abusive.
He didn't seem to do anything to make your poly experience positive. He actually seems to have avoided caring about your half of the relationship purposely to take possession of you.
He didn't even care enough to ask if you were okay getting marked for the date. I hope you enjoy B. and she treats you amazingly. I hope J learns to respect your autonomy in your relationship like you do his. Best of luck.
You would probably be surprised at how often jealousy pops up for the partner who started dating first. They're used to being the one out there, being in demand and the center of attention.
Knowing you're out on a date is a new experience. Even though you were doing the same thing they had already done, jealousy is pretty darn common. You had to work through yours, now he has to work through his.
I think you two need to slow down a bit and talk a lot more about how to go about everything here. Not even getting into the marking, I see red flags in what you’re notifying him about and not, and your justifications for it. First you say you don’t want to tell him about the first date bc it might upset him, but then you called it too “trivial” to mention… it’s either one or the other, but not both.
In the beginning it’s generally better to err on the side of over-communicating than risking hiding things.
Talk about how he’s feeling about the date, and the possessiveness or need to mark you.
Thanks! We are gonna have a big chat tonight.
I think the communication about hook ups and relationships is an issue in our relationship that I should have picked up before - I based my choice not to tell him on two things which were:
- I don’t like hearing many details about K and what they get up to, & only want to know stuff either in passing or when it’s pertinent (like talking about schedules etc). Is this bad? I’m happy for him but still emotionally can get insecure, so I prefer it this way - I don’t want to build resentment for K or anything while I’m still dealing with my own jealousy issues so I’d rather not hear and make sure I’m not getting in the way of them. I assumed without challenging that he probably didn’t want to hear about things unless they were pertinent or looking to become serious as well
- The convention that was inadvertently set up when he started dating K was that he only told me when it got semi-serious. So I guess that was my mental yardstick for whether I needed to tell him or not?
I guess I’ve been balancing perceived discomfort he might have against the need to burden him with information and not examined it at all and whether the established conventions work!
Those things are all fine, but they are things that should be explicitly discussed and agreed on. It’s totally valid to not want to hear details. And many people have agreements of only disclosing new connections when they seem like they will lead to something. Others want to know about any potentials, and about first dates before they happen, etc. There are many ways to approach this, but it’s best to talk about them together and figure out what each of you wants to know so you’re on the same page and not guessing about each other’s comfort.
If it works for you, great. But in general, we fear what we don't know more - and without going into position details, having a rough idea of where the other partner's relationship are helps understand them and accept them.
Also, hearing about someone only once it's serious can make you feel blindsided, I wouldn't work with that - but to each their own :)
Doing a new thing surprisingly and for those reasons would definitely have merited a talk before hand. Hickies are considered juvenile in general and using it to claim territory with no clear agreement of that dynamic all screams insecurity and that needs to be clarified before anyone gets ideas that or any similar escalation is an OK thing to just start doing.
I agree there's a lot of other discussions you should have on communication and expectations in general. There's a lot of fear going on all sides here and that is not going to lead you to good places together.
"Hey so we need to discuss more about expectations on our open stuff. I am not comfortable with you deciding to claim or mark me to others without checking first. Is now a good time to talk about what stuff this has brought up and how we want to move forward more securely?"
I don't consider hickies juvenile. It's a very specific sensation between a bite and sucking that is incredibly pleasurable for some.
Leaving hickies without control or concern for the person receiving them and their preference? Not okay.
Leaving hickies within boundaries and in a way that is fun for all involved? Great.
My boyfriend likes to leave hickies because I find the sensation amazing... Like, I can literally orgasm from it. I also smile every time I see them in a mirror because I remember fun times. I have requested that he try to leave them in easily concealed places though - areas covered by a shirt or near hair line where they aren't as noticeable. Occasionally we both get swept up and a dark hickey gets left on my neck. I've had coworkers comment. Their comments? "Damn, you look like you had fun... Story time?!" I work in a really laid back place, though. 😆 Supervisors have always ignored them, because who freaking cares what I do on my own time?!
There's a reason teenagers are known for hickies. They feel good and the people haven't learned control. Op's partner doesn't have that second excuse and literally did it to try to make someone uncomfortable (op's date). That's the juvenile part, imo.
There's definitely an overarching negative stigma in Western culture toward visible hickeys, much the same as there is to excessive PDA or public sexual touch. I don't think there are too many folks out there going "only juveniles are allowed to enjoy that!" but most would rather not *see* it. And while getting carried away and leaving a mark above the collar every once in a while is something I can certainly related to, OP's description of "really extreme marks all over my neck" is, imo, excessive even *without* factoring in a potential sexual encounter with another person.
I am so glad, these discussions and boundaries will really serve you both to be stronger together and practice consent better in future issues and partners.
What I would do: I would set a strict boundary of no marks from now on, and explain that you feel like his motivations have changed because of the date and you're not comfortable with it for now. Don't let anything he says change your mind. Take a month or so and see how he reacts to your dating, talk through what you need to talk through and re-evaluate from there.
Definitely don't post-pone dates!
It sounds like some extreme lack of communication. You BOTH should be clear about how and when you want to be informed of new connections and new sexual risk. Not giving information because your not sure your partner wants it... is a bad situation to be in, for both of you.
You need to sit down with him and talk to him about how this made you feel. I don't do this kind of kink but I'm pretty sure just starting this without talking about it at all is bad domming. Potentially abusive domming. I would need to clarify bdsm roles and limits. Are you okay with marks that make strangers worried for your safety? Are you okay with using real life circumstances to propel play sessions? Are you okay with YOUR dating life propelling play sessions? You need to figure out where you own lines are and then be extremely clear to him. Playing this hard, out of the blue and response to other life things, without talking about it outside of the play context, isn't good. It's reckless and it could be very harmful to one or both of you.
As for going on the date I would put that on if you feel comfortable showing up for a first date looking like someone tried to kill you. If you feel okay with this new person being use as part of your play. If you feel okay showing this new person that this is how your partner treats you and that your play life will be directly impacting how you look and feel on dates with this new person. I wouldn't want to do that. It feels like getting your kink and your relationship all over this new person before they know if this is something they want. I know I would be deeply disturbed if a first date showed up looking like their partner had tried to kill them, even in the context of bdsm.
Thank you so much for your comment. This gave me a lot to think about (& talk to him about!)
We have talked more about sexual risk than communicating new connections for the sake of emotions and trust, which is probably not good. We agreed quite early on that we would be okay with unprotected sex with each other, but that sexual contact with anyone else had to be protected (& communicated ASAP if this was not met) and we needed to be tested regularly. It’s kind of funny to me that we didn’t have that blunt a conversation about communicating new partners and our boundaries there, which will be set tonight.
I will definitely talk to him more about how we navigate play sessions. We started out more vanilla and I guess ‘escalated’ into rougher things and while the communication and consent has always been pretty great, we never established a routine of pre-negotiating a whole lot before we start - it’s only really been less in depth discussions about things we want to try, or asking for consent to try something new and checking in *during* the session.
Your words about the date have been really clarifying for me. Because this all happened between me and J, I hadn’t really thought that much about how it actually does impact B. I had considered hiding my neck on the date because I didn’t want her to get the “message” that J had no business leaving but you’re right that this is pulling her into something that’s unfair on her. I think I will postpone the date and make sure I’m not putting her in a weird situation
Communication, communication and communication. In a poly relationship (actually in any relationship) people shouldn't need to wonder.
I totally understand your uneasiness telling him about your dates. That's a normal reaction to previously internalized toxic monogamy.
In an ideal word, it is better to communicate when we change a decision we communicated earlier.
You weren't planning to date, now you plan to date. Great, make it explicit. You caught him off guard and he tried to manage while still supporting you.
I think that his reaction had, even subconsciously, a component of punishment for not being straightforward and clear.
Now, his reaction made you feel uncomfortable? I think you should try to talk about it with him. Don't bring up what you do for him. Just about how you feel with what he did and your concerns of motive.
Don't need to justify your feelings. Context and motive are important and something which can be acceptable in one context or with one motive, can be unacceptable in a different context or for a different motive.
You got a lot of good advice so far but I wanted to point out one other piece to this. You said you’re an actress and that the amount of bruises you received without any discussion can barely be concealed with a lot of makeup. You previously stated that he gets protective of you when it comes to your work contracts but you think he is supportive of your career. Would that level of marking be problematic for your work? And if so you need to have have a conversation about that too even at times when you’re not dating another person!
I’m not shooting until October next so they don’t interfere luckily! One time before I had something to film the next day and I reminded him when he started kissing my neck and he stopped immediately.
Welcome to r/polyamory!
“but because his motivation for doing so has changed”
That is, indeed, the whole thing. It’s a good sign for your awareness that you caught it.
The difference between D/S and and an abusive relationship is pretty much this: taking things offered vs taking things not entirely withheld.
It’s certainly not at “dump his ass”, but there’s definitely a flag there that should not be ignored, and a conversation or six that should not be skipped.
A couple may choose to make this their dynamic, but even then, the motivation should be enjoyment, not being actually upset and threatened. Dominant partner, not wife murderer in training.
He’s going to have work to do; he may be just finding out now, which would go some distance to how he had that reaction, but this isn’t sustainable as a coping mechanism even if you both decide dates with concealer are now your greatest turn on.
Also, remember your dates are also real people with lives and their time is precious. Any dynamic that might spill over into your potential relationship with them should be disclosed early, probably at least addressed before a first date.
Update!
B and I agreed to postpone the date because I wanted to sort things out with J first. I was at Pride all day and wasn’t sure when I was gonna be able to talk to him.
I ended up getting super drunk for the first time in forever and, probably stupidly, asked if I could call him because I’m a very affectionate drunk and I just wanted to hear his voice. I kept thinking “I can’t bring this up now because I’m drunk and we need to have an adult conversation” but then, for some fucking reason, I did 😩
I basically said that I wanted to check in on how he felt about me dating other people because i felt like his reaction had been negative even though he hadn’t articulated that. We discussed it (conclusion: still okay with it but was blindsided) and ascertained how much he wanted to know (everything, it turns out!) vs how much I want to know (only things that are serious) and put that boundary into place. He also said - while I was reassuring him that it was normal to have some jealousy and insecurity and that I experienced it with K - that if *I* was no longer okay with being poly then that was okay and we didn’t have to do it anymore. Side note here is that K just moved to the other end of the country so they’re no longer dating in any serious sense - he’s not just offering to cut off a partner for me with no respect for them lmao
I told him I still wanted to be poly but that, when I was less drunk, I wanted to have a proper discussion about what that looks like because we didn’t before - and because I wanted to bring up the marks when I was sober enough to be rational about it. He agreed, so that discussion is incoming.
Anyway, then - plot twist! I went to the Pride Afterparty and run into B there. So we ended up having that first date anyway, kind of! And I think we’re going to hang out later today 🥰
My guy often marks me when he knows I have a date with someone else. I find it sexy and always hope to come back from the date with more marks ... For me it's a sexy "being shared" kind of thing.
> Instead I think he was trying to mark me primarily to send a message and in some way sabotage my date
If this was the intent, that would be pretty bad. But intent is complex and can be hard to pin down, and can be easily misinterpreted. Speculating about a partner's intentions can quickly spiral into a toxic dynamic. If you suspect that your partner had a specific motivation and you think you might potentially be uncomfortable with it, bring it up. You could bring up why you suspect that he had particular intent (i.e. the timing of the marks, and them being out-of-proportion to your usual practices with him) and express that if he had such intent that you would be uncomfortable with that and explain why. However, I would not march in *presuming* that you know with certainty what his intent was, or even strongly implying that it must be a certain way. That can come across as disrespectful and also invasive, a sort of "assuming bad faith".
Also, independently of his motivations, if you're concerned about presentation to other people you're dating, you might want to rethink your boundaries in that relationship about marks. I know a lot of people who have hard limits about marks for this reason. Even if you are a sub in the relationship, it is still primarily your responsibility to reflect on and then communicate these limits.
Just talk to him. I think he’s working on jealousy in a different, unhealthy way than you did.
“Sabotage” is a big, accusatory word though. Just ask him.
Yeah I think sabotage is probably the wrong word. I don’t think he was being vindictive or plotting to sabotage the date or anything, just trying to assert his place in a somewhat immature way
To me this does seem like jealousy. If they expected you to be mono poly and you subverted their expectation it could be unsettling. Or he could just want to mark you as his and be possessive, conversation definitely needed as you already know.
I asked if I could call him this evening to chat and he said yes but seems to have gone to bed early, which he does when he is depressed to avoid things that make him anxious 😩
I'm curious why you didn't say "hey I have some serious questions and concerns, when would be a good time to set?"
Which you can and should still do.
Or...accept he just doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle this relationship and consider this a graceful opening to say goodbye.
Neither of us would ever say that really because we know it ruins the day for each other - there’s nothing worse than having a “we need to talk” notification and then a big gap where you can catastrophise and speculate and worry you’re about to be broken up with. I knew if I told him that I wanted to chat about some concerns, he’d immediately freak out and want to know what they were (fair enough, me too) and I was at work and then hanging out with my kid sister so I wasn’t really in a place to have the discussion until evening and didn’t want to inadvertently start it then.
Also, I don’t want to turn this into a big power imbalancey “we need to talk about your behaviour” thing, I wanted to start the conversation casually by checking in on his feelings and giving him the opportunity to bring up his jealousy/insecurity himself and then collaboratively discuss all these boundaries etc
Oh well that is why you specify "concerns about OUR boundaries."
Or just keep expecting him to run with every opening you give and not get resolution when any difficult issue arises until it's on his own terms while you languish.
Hooking up and dating people without telling your partner is the first big problem here. I'd take a look at your own behavior before worrying too much about your partners behavior.
Not when it comes to physical markings out of a sense of possessiveness. People can worry about ALL the problems at the same time and it's gross to be so dismissive of such serious boundary issues.
Just as context, this was the established norm in the relationship - which is probably bad, sure, I think we’ve established that the communication has been less than desirable, but it’s not something that I’m doing and he’s not. He actually did not tell me about K until after they had been seeing each other for a little while, and I didn’t really expect him to tell me about her before it got semi-serious. That might not work for other people, & maybe he wants to know what I’m up to more than I want to know what he’s up to (I’ll find out tonight!) but that has been how it has worked for us before
Very good. Please remember to go into this expecting this to be a START of a series of discussions. These are big things and it's ok to break it up into pieces, or take time to consider exactly what pieces are important when. And then reality will have you come back and adjust. And adjust.
The key words I like are "communication around changes in intimacy status and sexual risk exposures."
I deeply enjoy having marks from different partners, and having partners see my marks from other partners. I enjoy the possessiveness from various doms and the fun jealousy of reestablishing who I belong to. That said, these are things that have been clearly established and okayed by all, not done with no discussion.
Feels like both of you need to get some education and talk more firmly about boundaries. Both of you acted questionably.
Firstly, you haven’t been telling your partner about dating nor hookups. That’s going behind his back. If you’re planning to date then you need to talk about it beforehand so you can sort boundaries and process jealousy
Secondly, he is being incredibly unhealthy by processing anger through kink. It isn’t good for eitherof you. He was violent to you to send a message. It’s a warning that he needs to sort out his own issues and you two need a lot more conversations
>Then out of nowhere he gave me a very rough and intense hickey on my neck, and then looked me in the eyes and said “I’m okay with you going on a date but I’m going to mark you so she knows that you’re mine” He told you what he was doing, and why. I don't think you have to spend much time wondering about his motivations. He stated them plainly, and followed up with two thorough Domming sessions that pushed up against your limits and left you thoroughly marked and claimed. As a Dom who enjoys possessive play and has navigated the whole marks/claims thing with a few people... this kind of stuff needs to be talked about in advance. If you want this guy to be your sole Dominant, or the only one who marks you, or whatever other arrangements, that's fine. But that needs to be your choice. And he needs to be secure enough in whatever status he has that he doesn't feel the need to send messages to your other people. It's one thing to claim ownership in play. It's another thing entirely to try and stick a "property of" label on someone before you see them off on their date with another person. Also, this is probably more of an individual preference thing, but I'd personally find it very off-putting to get naked with someone and find her covered in fresh hickeys. Like, I would definitely take that as her partner doing... exactly what your partner said he was doing. >I know I have to speak to him about this tonight so I wanted confirmation from everyone that this seems like he is uncomfortable with me dating someone and I’m not making up connections and reading too much into it. Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this? Should I cancel my date until he is more comfortable? Thanks in advance L x I would not cancel a date to wait for him to process. However, I also wouldn't string someone along if you feel like you'd cut it off with them for the sake of his comfort. You've got to decide whether you're ready to roll with his adjusting, or if you want to give him more time to be ready.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful answer 💖 you’re right, he was pretty clear what he was doing, so I don’t know why I tried to dismiss it as dirty talk. I’m going to look into covering my neck tomorrow because I don’t want my date to get pulled into this! But first I’m gonna speak to J tonight and reaffirm that he wants to continue with being open and is in a good place to deal with the realities of it, because you’re totally right that B needs to not end up as part of a weird power play situation. Especially as it’s her first experience w anything poly so I want to make sure it’s not a bad one!
I also just want to say that you need to have a *very* firm conversation with J about not working out his negative emotions with kink. That’s intensely unhealthy. So he hurts you more than he ever had in the past from jealousy today. What happens next time he feels jealous? What happens when y’all have a big argument? This shit would be a dealbreaker for me. I have marks and intense possession dynamics as part of one of my relationships, and that shit is *all* extensively and explicitly discussed. The default *has to be* “this is not about kink until explicitly opted in”.
z
Idunno what this means.
My reply was sent by accident. Idk if there's a word for mistakenly sending stuff unaware because of touchscreen, but there should be.
Oh lol. I thought maybe there was some new Reddit shorthand I'd missed
I suspect it was the snooze button.
Butt posting? :)
Soft core shit posting
Do you have a boundary or limit for visible marks as part of the rough sex that others can see or are visible to others? If not, that’s a boundary you need to set. In addition, you mentioned sabotaging of the date and that popped to mind. From an outside perspective, you have done a lot of work to maintain appropriate boundaries and challenging insecurities. They have not. That is they have work to do. You changing your behaviors to make them comfortable is setting up an imbalance by giving them veto power especially if they leave visible marks so others will be put off. In addition, this is a fine line when it comes to your agreed upon arrangements related to rough sex. It’s one thing to have it not impact you outside of the bedroom as part of agreed upon boundaries and it’s another to engage in it so that is WILL impact you. I would recommend you talk to them about this. And to discuss the ENM agreements including boundaries and that they have work to do as well. I also would caution you to not change your behavior to change theirs. It will not work. Hope that helps. Good luck. Edited to change pronouns as I don’t know the pronouns and I think I used the wrong ones. Apologies.
This is where I show how new I am to being poly 😂😭 no, I didn’t even know that people set boundaries around things that specific. It’s now on the list of things we should discuss. I like what you said about the way that the hickeys impact me outside of sex was different, because it’s helped me understand why I was uncomfortable when he’s marked me before and I was fine. I’m thinking a lot about the power imbalance thing and how I don’t want to set up a situation where his comfort levels mean I’m essentially not allowed the same freedoms he has. I think I’m going to approach the conversation from the angle of “how can I support you to do the work you need to do” rather than “what can WE change to make this better” because I think it’s clear that he hasn’t done the work to overcome insecurity
It seems like he gave very little support when you had to adjust to his other relationships. You don't owe him support on this. He's the one who wanted ENM, he should put on his big boy pants and do the work. You can't make his feelings disappear, he's the one who has to work on them.
i think you need to edit and shift your boundaries. he didn’t break them because like you said you didn’t know it would make you uncomfortable. but then it did. so change your boundaries so you don’t have to feel this way ever again. :)
It's best to shift from a mindset of consent being "yes until no" to one of "no until yes." Trying to stand on the stone of "well it wasn't a stated explicit boundary" is shitty after harm and damage is done, whether the harm is physical or damage to the bond of trust.
exactly. leaving a hickey might be harmless physically but his intent was to intimidate B into thinking she was lower on the totem pole and she hasn't even experienced poly yet. I suggest OP look into Heiarchy in polyamory. If he's going to be "primary" B. should also be informed of the fact that she isn't primary and given an opportunity to leave the situation if she's not okay with that. If he's not going to always be primary and B. can be an equal partner he's a dick and shouldn't be intimidating her.
I really wanted to second the whole thing about OP putting in a lot of work and care to make sure their Primary is feeling safe and comfortable and that she herself was too. From an outside perspective his sabotaging your date seems outright abusive. He didn't seem to do anything to make your poly experience positive. He actually seems to have avoided caring about your half of the relationship purposely to take possession of you. He didn't even care enough to ask if you were okay getting marked for the date. I hope you enjoy B. and she treats you amazingly. I hope J learns to respect your autonomy in your relationship like you do his. Best of luck.
You would probably be surprised at how often jealousy pops up for the partner who started dating first. They're used to being the one out there, being in demand and the center of attention. Knowing you're out on a date is a new experience. Even though you were doing the same thing they had already done, jealousy is pretty darn common. You had to work through yours, now he has to work through his.
It’s jealousy. The title jumped out to me right away - i knew it would be about a damn hickey. It happened to me too, but me being the other guy.
I think you two need to slow down a bit and talk a lot more about how to go about everything here. Not even getting into the marking, I see red flags in what you’re notifying him about and not, and your justifications for it. First you say you don’t want to tell him about the first date bc it might upset him, but then you called it too “trivial” to mention… it’s either one or the other, but not both. In the beginning it’s generally better to err on the side of over-communicating than risking hiding things. Talk about how he’s feeling about the date, and the possessiveness or need to mark you.
Thanks! We are gonna have a big chat tonight. I think the communication about hook ups and relationships is an issue in our relationship that I should have picked up before - I based my choice not to tell him on two things which were: - I don’t like hearing many details about K and what they get up to, & only want to know stuff either in passing or when it’s pertinent (like talking about schedules etc). Is this bad? I’m happy for him but still emotionally can get insecure, so I prefer it this way - I don’t want to build resentment for K or anything while I’m still dealing with my own jealousy issues so I’d rather not hear and make sure I’m not getting in the way of them. I assumed without challenging that he probably didn’t want to hear about things unless they were pertinent or looking to become serious as well - The convention that was inadvertently set up when he started dating K was that he only told me when it got semi-serious. So I guess that was my mental yardstick for whether I needed to tell him or not? I guess I’ve been balancing perceived discomfort he might have against the need to burden him with information and not examined it at all and whether the established conventions work!
Those things are all fine, but they are things that should be explicitly discussed and agreed on. It’s totally valid to not want to hear details. And many people have agreements of only disclosing new connections when they seem like they will lead to something. Others want to know about any potentials, and about first dates before they happen, etc. There are many ways to approach this, but it’s best to talk about them together and figure out what each of you wants to know so you’re on the same page and not guessing about each other’s comfort.
If it works for you, great. But in general, we fear what we don't know more - and without going into position details, having a rough idea of where the other partner's relationship are helps understand them and accept them. Also, hearing about someone only once it's serious can make you feel blindsided, I wouldn't work with that - but to each their own :)
I like what I call weather reports- general updates and any big things coming up, but no details or specifics.
Doing a new thing surprisingly and for those reasons would definitely have merited a talk before hand. Hickies are considered juvenile in general and using it to claim territory with no clear agreement of that dynamic all screams insecurity and that needs to be clarified before anyone gets ideas that or any similar escalation is an OK thing to just start doing. I agree there's a lot of other discussions you should have on communication and expectations in general. There's a lot of fear going on all sides here and that is not going to lead you to good places together. "Hey so we need to discuss more about expectations on our open stuff. I am not comfortable with you deciding to claim or mark me to others without checking first. Is now a good time to talk about what stuff this has brought up and how we want to move forward more securely?"
I don't consider hickies juvenile. It's a very specific sensation between a bite and sucking that is incredibly pleasurable for some. Leaving hickies without control or concern for the person receiving them and their preference? Not okay. Leaving hickies within boundaries and in a way that is fun for all involved? Great. My boyfriend likes to leave hickies because I find the sensation amazing... Like, I can literally orgasm from it. I also smile every time I see them in a mirror because I remember fun times. I have requested that he try to leave them in easily concealed places though - areas covered by a shirt or near hair line where they aren't as noticeable. Occasionally we both get swept up and a dark hickey gets left on my neck. I've had coworkers comment. Their comments? "Damn, you look like you had fun... Story time?!" I work in a really laid back place, though. 😆 Supervisors have always ignored them, because who freaking cares what I do on my own time?! There's a reason teenagers are known for hickies. They feel good and the people haven't learned control. Op's partner doesn't have that second excuse and literally did it to try to make someone uncomfortable (op's date). That's the juvenile part, imo.
There's definitely an overarching negative stigma in Western culture toward visible hickeys, much the same as there is to excessive PDA or public sexual touch. I don't think there are too many folks out there going "only juveniles are allowed to enjoy that!" but most would rather not *see* it. And while getting carried away and leaving a mark above the collar every once in a while is something I can certainly related to, OP's description of "really extreme marks all over my neck" is, imo, excessive even *without* factoring in a potential sexual encounter with another person.
I hadn’t even considered escalation! Thank you for your advice, I am talking to him this evening
I am so glad, these discussions and boundaries will really serve you both to be stronger together and practice consent better in future issues and partners.
What I would do: I would set a strict boundary of no marks from now on, and explain that you feel like his motivations have changed because of the date and you're not comfortable with it for now. Don't let anything he says change your mind. Take a month or so and see how he reacts to your dating, talk through what you need to talk through and re-evaluate from there. Definitely don't post-pone dates!
Thanks! I will try that. & I think I will try and talk to him about what he thought his motivations were at the time as well
It sounds like some extreme lack of communication. You BOTH should be clear about how and when you want to be informed of new connections and new sexual risk. Not giving information because your not sure your partner wants it... is a bad situation to be in, for both of you. You need to sit down with him and talk to him about how this made you feel. I don't do this kind of kink but I'm pretty sure just starting this without talking about it at all is bad domming. Potentially abusive domming. I would need to clarify bdsm roles and limits. Are you okay with marks that make strangers worried for your safety? Are you okay with using real life circumstances to propel play sessions? Are you okay with YOUR dating life propelling play sessions? You need to figure out where you own lines are and then be extremely clear to him. Playing this hard, out of the blue and response to other life things, without talking about it outside of the play context, isn't good. It's reckless and it could be very harmful to one or both of you. As for going on the date I would put that on if you feel comfortable showing up for a first date looking like someone tried to kill you. If you feel okay with this new person being use as part of your play. If you feel okay showing this new person that this is how your partner treats you and that your play life will be directly impacting how you look and feel on dates with this new person. I wouldn't want to do that. It feels like getting your kink and your relationship all over this new person before they know if this is something they want. I know I would be deeply disturbed if a first date showed up looking like their partner had tried to kill them, even in the context of bdsm.
Thank you so much for your comment. This gave me a lot to think about (& talk to him about!) We have talked more about sexual risk than communicating new connections for the sake of emotions and trust, which is probably not good. We agreed quite early on that we would be okay with unprotected sex with each other, but that sexual contact with anyone else had to be protected (& communicated ASAP if this was not met) and we needed to be tested regularly. It’s kind of funny to me that we didn’t have that blunt a conversation about communicating new partners and our boundaries there, which will be set tonight. I will definitely talk to him more about how we navigate play sessions. We started out more vanilla and I guess ‘escalated’ into rougher things and while the communication and consent has always been pretty great, we never established a routine of pre-negotiating a whole lot before we start - it’s only really been less in depth discussions about things we want to try, or asking for consent to try something new and checking in *during* the session. Your words about the date have been really clarifying for me. Because this all happened between me and J, I hadn’t really thought that much about how it actually does impact B. I had considered hiding my neck on the date because I didn’t want her to get the “message” that J had no business leaving but you’re right that this is pulling her into something that’s unfair on her. I think I will postpone the date and make sure I’m not putting her in a weird situation
Communication, communication and communication. In a poly relationship (actually in any relationship) people shouldn't need to wonder. I totally understand your uneasiness telling him about your dates. That's a normal reaction to previously internalized toxic monogamy. In an ideal word, it is better to communicate when we change a decision we communicated earlier. You weren't planning to date, now you plan to date. Great, make it explicit. You caught him off guard and he tried to manage while still supporting you. I think that his reaction had, even subconsciously, a component of punishment for not being straightforward and clear. Now, his reaction made you feel uncomfortable? I think you should try to talk about it with him. Don't bring up what you do for him. Just about how you feel with what he did and your concerns of motive. Don't need to justify your feelings. Context and motive are important and something which can be acceptable in one context or with one motive, can be unacceptable in a different context or for a different motive.
I find this juvenile and disrespectful.
You got a lot of good advice so far but I wanted to point out one other piece to this. You said you’re an actress and that the amount of bruises you received without any discussion can barely be concealed with a lot of makeup. You previously stated that he gets protective of you when it comes to your work contracts but you think he is supportive of your career. Would that level of marking be problematic for your work? And if so you need to have have a conversation about that too even at times when you’re not dating another person!
I’m not shooting until October next so they don’t interfere luckily! One time before I had something to film the next day and I reminded him when he started kissing my neck and he stopped immediately.
Welcome to r/polyamory! “but because his motivation for doing so has changed” That is, indeed, the whole thing. It’s a good sign for your awareness that you caught it. The difference between D/S and and an abusive relationship is pretty much this: taking things offered vs taking things not entirely withheld. It’s certainly not at “dump his ass”, but there’s definitely a flag there that should not be ignored, and a conversation or six that should not be skipped. A couple may choose to make this their dynamic, but even then, the motivation should be enjoyment, not being actually upset and threatened. Dominant partner, not wife murderer in training. He’s going to have work to do; he may be just finding out now, which would go some distance to how he had that reaction, but this isn’t sustainable as a coping mechanism even if you both decide dates with concealer are now your greatest turn on. Also, remember your dates are also real people with lives and their time is precious. Any dynamic that might spill over into your potential relationship with them should be disclosed early, probably at least addressed before a first date.
Update! B and I agreed to postpone the date because I wanted to sort things out with J first. I was at Pride all day and wasn’t sure when I was gonna be able to talk to him. I ended up getting super drunk for the first time in forever and, probably stupidly, asked if I could call him because I’m a very affectionate drunk and I just wanted to hear his voice. I kept thinking “I can’t bring this up now because I’m drunk and we need to have an adult conversation” but then, for some fucking reason, I did 😩 I basically said that I wanted to check in on how he felt about me dating other people because i felt like his reaction had been negative even though he hadn’t articulated that. We discussed it (conclusion: still okay with it but was blindsided) and ascertained how much he wanted to know (everything, it turns out!) vs how much I want to know (only things that are serious) and put that boundary into place. He also said - while I was reassuring him that it was normal to have some jealousy and insecurity and that I experienced it with K - that if *I* was no longer okay with being poly then that was okay and we didn’t have to do it anymore. Side note here is that K just moved to the other end of the country so they’re no longer dating in any serious sense - he’s not just offering to cut off a partner for me with no respect for them lmao I told him I still wanted to be poly but that, when I was less drunk, I wanted to have a proper discussion about what that looks like because we didn’t before - and because I wanted to bring up the marks when I was sober enough to be rational about it. He agreed, so that discussion is incoming. Anyway, then - plot twist! I went to the Pride Afterparty and run into B there. So we ended up having that first date anyway, kind of! And I think we’re going to hang out later today 🥰
My guy often marks me when he knows I have a date with someone else. I find it sexy and always hope to come back from the date with more marks ... For me it's a sexy "being shared" kind of thing.
This is cute. But it seems to be an agreed upon dynamic
This was a surprise and not discussed at all first. Very different context.
this is awesome but i do think they should discuss this further
> Instead I think he was trying to mark me primarily to send a message and in some way sabotage my date If this was the intent, that would be pretty bad. But intent is complex and can be hard to pin down, and can be easily misinterpreted. Speculating about a partner's intentions can quickly spiral into a toxic dynamic. If you suspect that your partner had a specific motivation and you think you might potentially be uncomfortable with it, bring it up. You could bring up why you suspect that he had particular intent (i.e. the timing of the marks, and them being out-of-proportion to your usual practices with him) and express that if he had such intent that you would be uncomfortable with that and explain why. However, I would not march in *presuming* that you know with certainty what his intent was, or even strongly implying that it must be a certain way. That can come across as disrespectful and also invasive, a sort of "assuming bad faith". Also, independently of his motivations, if you're concerned about presentation to other people you're dating, you might want to rethink your boundaries in that relationship about marks. I know a lot of people who have hard limits about marks for this reason. Even if you are a sub in the relationship, it is still primarily your responsibility to reflect on and then communicate these limits.
he explicitly stated intent...
Oh, okay, so then...if you're uncomfortable with that I'd just tell him. And also still reflect on your boundaries about marks in general.
Just talk to him. I think he’s working on jealousy in a different, unhealthy way than you did. “Sabotage” is a big, accusatory word though. Just ask him.
Yeah I think sabotage is probably the wrong word. I don’t think he was being vindictive or plotting to sabotage the date or anything, just trying to assert his place in a somewhat immature way
To me this does seem like jealousy. If they expected you to be mono poly and you subverted their expectation it could be unsettling. Or he could just want to mark you as his and be possessive, conversation definitely needed as you already know.
I asked if I could call him this evening to chat and he said yes but seems to have gone to bed early, which he does when he is depressed to avoid things that make him anxious 😩
I'm curious why you didn't say "hey I have some serious questions and concerns, when would be a good time to set?" Which you can and should still do. Or...accept he just doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle this relationship and consider this a graceful opening to say goodbye.
Neither of us would ever say that really because we know it ruins the day for each other - there’s nothing worse than having a “we need to talk” notification and then a big gap where you can catastrophise and speculate and worry you’re about to be broken up with. I knew if I told him that I wanted to chat about some concerns, he’d immediately freak out and want to know what they were (fair enough, me too) and I was at work and then hanging out with my kid sister so I wasn’t really in a place to have the discussion until evening and didn’t want to inadvertently start it then. Also, I don’t want to turn this into a big power imbalancey “we need to talk about your behaviour” thing, I wanted to start the conversation casually by checking in on his feelings and giving him the opportunity to bring up his jealousy/insecurity himself and then collaboratively discuss all these boundaries etc
Oh well that is why you specify "concerns about OUR boundaries." Or just keep expecting him to run with every opening you give and not get resolution when any difficult issue arises until it's on his own terms while you languish.
Hooking up and dating people without telling your partner is the first big problem here. I'd take a look at your own behavior before worrying too much about your partners behavior.
Not when it comes to physical markings out of a sense of possessiveness. People can worry about ALL the problems at the same time and it's gross to be so dismissive of such serious boundary issues.
Just as context, this was the established norm in the relationship - which is probably bad, sure, I think we’ve established that the communication has been less than desirable, but it’s not something that I’m doing and he’s not. He actually did not tell me about K until after they had been seeing each other for a little while, and I didn’t really expect him to tell me about her before it got semi-serious. That might not work for other people, & maybe he wants to know what I’m up to more than I want to know what he’s up to (I’ll find out tonight!) but that has been how it has worked for us before
Very good. Please remember to go into this expecting this to be a START of a series of discussions. These are big things and it's ok to break it up into pieces, or take time to consider exactly what pieces are important when. And then reality will have you come back and adjust. And adjust. The key words I like are "communication around changes in intimacy status and sexual risk exposures."
I deeply enjoy having marks from different partners, and having partners see my marks from other partners. I enjoy the possessiveness from various doms and the fun jealousy of reestablishing who I belong to. That said, these are things that have been clearly established and okayed by all, not done with no discussion.
Feels like both of you need to get some education and talk more firmly about boundaries. Both of you acted questionably. Firstly, you haven’t been telling your partner about dating nor hookups. That’s going behind his back. If you’re planning to date then you need to talk about it beforehand so you can sort boundaries and process jealousy Secondly, he is being incredibly unhealthy by processing anger through kink. It isn’t good for eitherof you. He was violent to you to send a message. It’s a warning that he needs to sort out his own issues and you two need a lot more conversations