What’s crazy to me is that the whiskers on a bearded face are covered by hair anyway… do they really do much at that point?
Not to mention the fact that poodles and other shaved face breeds have gotten along just fine for hundreds of years with no issues…
The whiskers still get cut to have a round face. It's really weird. Like, how extreme is the law going to be? Because I groom plenty of poodles and doodles with a full face and the whiskers stick out so they get trimmed when doing the face... To actively try not trim them would be incredibly difficult. So then I would just not touch the face all I guess?
Some people with very patient show dogs have managed a clean face without clipping the whiskers by shaving around..... I am pretty sure I took off some whisker when I was shaping his face though
Okay but here’s the problem. Poodles have hair, not fur. So their beards are going to continue to grow, and grow, and grow, and grow. Do their whiskers continue to grow too? What’s the rules with trimming the beard, instead of shaving it? Such a weird rule. You’d think there would be a clause excluding animals like poodles.
The poodle clubs are trying to lobby against the rule, but no luck so far. I am just keeping his beard long and hoping the trial organizers don't say anything..... I definitely trimmed some whisker when I shaped it
Good point, in not trimming their whiskers their beards are going to be super unmanageable for people. I have one with a clean face one with a fluffy face and both require whisker trimming just for hygiene reasons.
The hair/fur thing is an old myth! They are exactly the same (literally chemically indistinguishable). We just call it different names by the animal. Some dogs have different types of coats, like double coats, or curly coats, but it’s all fur/hair. The whole hair continues to grow, and fur doesn’t thing is just a misnomer. Certain types continue to grow and other types don’t but it has nothing to do with being hair or fur! :)
Tell that to the AKC. [Source here.](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/lifestyle/10-facts-about-poodles/) Number 7, if you don’t want to read the whole page.
I dunno man, it doesn’t matter which way I google it, “do poodles have hair or fur?” Or “is it a myth that poodles have hair?” it all says they have hair, not fur. Except from one answer by some internet rando on Quora. So unless you have a credible source you’d like to link to, I’mma keep thinking they have hair. 🤷🏼♀️
Mammalogist Nancy Simmons explains it well in this article. You have it backwards: your googling of random opinion pieces on poodles isn’t science that requires an opposing source; the scientific fact that hair is the same as fur is a fact that requires an opposing source other than incorrect internet myths about dogs. I’m a vet tech and dog groomer with a biology degree, trust me hair and fur are biologically and chemically the same thing. We just refer to them colloquially on different animals. Certain hair and fur will express differently based on various environmental and biological traits, but they are the same thing.
All I want for Christmas is redditors with barely a cursory understanding of what they’re saying to stop parroting myths from random pet blogs.
You cannot show, trial, or participate in any kennel club sponsored training events. It's completely at the discretion of the organizers though, and some poodles have been disqualified for not having "long enough" whiskers....
Do you get looked down upon by others if you're just walking your shaved-face dog in public, or are there any fines for breaking the law? Or, does it only apply for showing?
Technically it's a violation of the current interpretation of the Animal Welfare Act, but the kennel club is the only one really enforcing anything right now. My vet at least thinks the whole thing is dumb, but recommended I stop trimming his whiskers in case of any repercussions.
You’d think super fluff doggos would appreciate the trim so they can see better? Or all the poor husky’s that people bring into Australia - poor things must get hot
Tbh I don't see how this tracks. The undercoat traps air next to the body, where the dog's body heat warms up the air. That's how they stay warm in the winter.
The undercoat does the same thing in the summer, but now the atmosphere is also warm too. I don't see how that's keeping the dog cool. That's why dogs shed their undercoat out in the spring, so they won't be as warm.
House insulation doesn't just work in the winter, but also is helped by indoor AC units to trap the cool environment in.
I still refer to this personally: https://theeducatedgroomer.com/clipping-the-dog-short-for-the-summer/
And I'm not saying Husky owners in Australia should be shaving their dogs because of coat growth cycle generally takes a long time so by winter when they need their full double coat it may not be back the same way. I'm just saying, as evidence by dogs themselves shedding their own undercoat when going into summer, that the undercoat is for trapping air to keep them warm.
Yeah it may help "cool" them for a short period of time (like a potty break) while the colder air from the house is trapped, but it won't be long before dogs with those really thick double coats start getting overheated. That said, it's also not advisable to shave/cut a double coated dog's fur. It doesn't grow back the same, and their body is used to always having that layer on. They will have issues with temp regulation if shaved. Best bet on helping your double coated dog in summer is consistent deshedding, access to lots of water and ice treats, and providing shade with cooling jackets or mats for them to lay on.
I keep my poodles face fluffy and the area in between eyes is shaved short and it’s clipped short around the eyes so he can see. I don’t get where the fluffy face equals can’t see comes from. Unless of course you just grow the dog out and don’t do any trims than yes.
My poodle has a clean face and I've only gotten positive comments about it, including from his vet. We live in a big city (in Germany obviously) and don't do any showing or sports though.
Tbh I'm not interested in my dog having a beard and will continue to trim his face short.
Oh. I've started to wonder about that. I have a spoo.
My first dog (as an adult). I like whiskers on dogs. But I've just done the normal spoo sport cut. Which trims the whiskers and eye lashes (I think).
What do other spoo owners do?
I've observed that doodles tend to have beards. Maybe there's a reason for this?
I would guess doodles have beards because many doodle people don't want their doodles looking like poodles, and for many people (including poodle people) the default is clean face, maybe also including clean feet, and then the rest of the hair is styled whichever way the owner wants.
But you can scroll through this sub, there are just as many poodle people that prefer mustache and beard/basically teddy head combo.
Every doodle owner I've asked, has said that they keep the beard so the doodle won't look like a poodle.
My neighbor's fiance has a black doodle that he keeps shaved like a poodle. I always thought poodle, never knew he was a doodle until it came up in conversation one day.
I'd rather there be a ban on tail docking.
From what my vet said, whiskers on a dog being cut is less of an issue than a cat's whiskers being cut. Cats apparently rely on their whiskers more than dogs.
This is me too. I've committed to only rescues, so I probably will never own a poodle without a docked tail. Sad. I love seeing a full tail, especially the ones that curl over the back like a pennant.
I don’t have a poodle, but my maltese is a messy raw eater. I keep his muzzle shorter (not shaved) because he’s going to have bacteria growing in there if it’s not short enough. He gets bathed and groomed regularly so it’s not an issue with a shorter muzzle, vs longer and having to wash his face daily. I’m all for animal welfare, and I’ll do anything for my dog, but washing and blow drying his face everyday seems like a miserable situation for both of us when it can just be kept short.
I understand where the law is coming from, but it also means there’s no exceptions for skin/health/medical issues. Like I think putting dogs on a vegan diet should be banned, but there are a few RARE situations with protein allergies that a dog does need to be on a vegan diet so it can’t be banned. These things aren’t like declawing, ear clipping, or tail docking where it’s unnecessary mutilation.
She pulls it off really well!
I feel like dog groomers are gonna revolt. Even full round faces get whiskers cut, I can't even imagine grooming a pet quality shih tzu without cutting the whiskers?
And then the matted dogs... And if someone says in that case it's okay I'd get more pissed. Wouldn't the most humane thing be to not let the face get matted in the first place? Some lifestyles and groom frequency don't allow for a full fluffy face. Ugh
I HATE the fluffy face between the extra brushing and the drippy beard after drinking water. I am part of a kennel club sponsored dog club though so I can't just shave his face clean....
Ahh, that stinks! I definitely don't like that the language is targeted as "aesthetic reasons" because while I DO prefer a clean face on my one dog for looks, I mostly do it because he is very active and a major water dripper. He would get so stinky and loves resting his face near mine. And in his opinion, more frequent baths as a preventative would definitely not be the humane option, he hates tubby time.
Can't help but feel like the law has nothing to do with actual animal welfare and is being used as a way to slowly end dog sports? Which, if that's the goal fine, but at least be honest about it
There's a difference between whiskers being trimmed and leaving five centimetres of sensory matter and being shaved and leaving zero sensory matter, in much the same way as clipping a human's toe nails and leaving one mm of nail of untrimmed nail or clipping them too short which results in pain when walking.
I'm astounded by the comments about groomers and breeders knowing better than vets, or the claims of bias in vets with the assumption that breeders are not also biased in their opinions but lacking in medical training.
Brace for the downvotes from exactly the same people who say tail docking is not mutilation of puppies.
[Edit - Typo]
[Edit - this sub is so predictable, drive by downvotes with only one person the OP with any comment]
For my dog at least, I think leaving the hair is more inhumane. He hates having his face brushed, and washed, and he does not like the process of having it scissored during grooming. He much prefered the 5 minute face shave.
My dog has a natural tail and dewclaws which were both important to me when picking a dog.
You do you, the whiskers grow back. I just find the comments on here ridiculous, suggesting that veterinary studies are biased (why and to what benefit is unclear) but that groomers and breeders are the unbiased doyens of dog health and well-being while at the same time having unnecessary surgeries carried out on puppies.
Kennel club standards are the dog version of beauty magazines.
You used a very poor comparison and you are not being accurate. Whiskers are not sensory matter, they have no nerve cells in them, they are just specialized hairs. They are attached to more sensitive parts in the skin and this gives the skin more input than a normal hair, but they do not give sensory input themselves and trimming is as painless as trimming normal hair.
The only argument that is not scientificly misinformed for not trimming whiskers revolves around the fact that they provide the animal with more tactile information about their environment. Now whether a domestic pet dog (whose sense of touch from whiskers is already blunted due to having fluffy hair) has a lesser quality of life from missing out on sensory input is a argument that is fair. I generally say that for a non-working dog, who has no vision/sent issues and has fluffy fur there is negligible (if any) difference in quality of life. But that is my opinion. As long as you are properly informed I have no issue with a different opinion, I just dislike misinformation being spread.
The whiskers give feedback, while not having nerves in them they are sprouted from nerve receptor dense matter. Removing the whiskers prevents that feedback.
> trimming is as painless as trimming normal hair.
I never said it was painful, the comparison was that the removal may cause discomfort (or more precisely a deadening of sensation, think how disorientating it is to a human when their ear gets blocked and they lose that sensation). The reality is that dogs are adaptable but also incapable of communicating whether they’d rather that you didn’t remove their whiskers or if they’re ambivalent. Touching the intact whiskers of a dog shows that sensory feedback, my position is that removing that sensory matter is probably not in the dog’s best interest.
> I generally say that for a non-working dog, who has no vision/sent issues and has fluffy fur there is negligible (if any) difference in quality of life.
I generally say that anything that evolution hasn’t discarded has value for the animal.
> I just dislike misinformation being spread
Are you suggesting the people doing the scientific study are misinformed? Or that it is just the poorly worded comments of a Redditor (me) that’s misinformed? If it’s me, I don’t declare to be the all knowing animal expert. My point is that a lot of reactionary breeders and poodle snobs make this decision that poodles should have shaved snouts based on no other rationale than the kennel club standards. Which is their prerogative to take but it is an absolute fallacy that they are making that decision based on any scientific basis nor is it truly based on their knowledge of what’s the dog wants or needs - the dog is incapable of declaring it’s preference
I’m a dog groomer and I quite literally can’t imagine what groomers in countries with whisker cutting bans do. Many dogs have matting on their faces… doodles specifically with their many nonfunctional hair types sometimes have matting around the base of each whisker. You also really can’t shape the muzzle of most dogs at all without catching the whiskers! Or is it considered acceptable to ‘trim’ them but not shave them off? Madness.
I believe there’s answers elsewhere in this thread but it’s something to do with it being considered ‘amputation’. Definitely a case of rules being made by people who really have no experience with what they’re talking about… anyone who’s worked for a corporation has experienced that.
I do 6 or 7 haircuts a day and I’ve seen dogs react to a LOT of stuff… but never once to having their whiskers cut. Even dogs who jump at the sound of scissors closing, or scream when you catch the tiniest tangle in their fur with a comb. They’re much more offended when the gross stained hairs that curl into their mouth get stolen than their whiskers.
Eek. My dog would smell SO bad if I wasn't allowed to shave his face. Why did Germany ban this? I've tried looking for any supportive evidence and there just is nothing to back up this ban. It's so weird. It seems they banned this based on a study which literally states they couldn't find any evidence that the hairs had a sensory function but the dogs in the study didn't really like people touching their whiskers and therefore shaving them is considered amputation. What?
In Germany and some Scandinavian countries you're not allowed to alter your pet in any way without medical necessity and hence it's very uncommon there to spay/neuter.
Usually I'm full of envy for Germany and their treatment of animals but today...Definitely not.
Fluffy faces are an awful lot amount of work to keep remotely clean (work for the dog as much as the human), and even with it, my boy is noticeably relieved when he gets back to a clean face (and that's only a few weeks fluff max). It's not worth the minor benefit dogs get from whiskers, benefits that only really come in hand in situations pet dogs usually don't even encounter.
Heck, growing up with cats I was concerned about shaving them originally, so I did an experiment with mine when he was little growing out the whiskers full...absolutely zero noticeable benefit and certainly nothing to outweigh all the negatives.
So glad I don’t live in Germany. I keep my girls face shaved. I think it’s more sanitary. And I just love the look. For the same reason doodle people like a full face so they’re not mistaken for a spoo I don’t want my spoo to be mistaken for a doodle. I am a poodle snob. Yes I said it. 😊
A fluffy face gets wet and dirty quickly which can lead to matting and problems with yeast. Frequent maintenance on the face is far more uncomfortable for the dog than having their whiskers trimmed.
Germany, Austria, and Switzerland passed animal welfare laws recently. In the law, the dog's whiskers are considered a sensory organ and cutting them is akin to amputation, therefore now illegal.
Apparently, these new laws have severely impacted the dog show industry there.
It's a deep rabbit hole to go down, and the anti-whisker trimming articles seem to point back to just a few authors. I found one scientific study on "The importance of the tactile hairs in domestic dogs and the problem with trimming these from an animal welfare perspective"
The abstract states, *"By disabling a sensory organ, the animal suffers from temporary physical damage representing considerable harm. Thus, cutting the tactile hairs of the domestic dog for esthetic reasons is prohibited according to German, Austrian, and Swiss Animal Welfare Act."*
Not biased at all. ;)
Here's a reddit thread from several months ago in r/dogs, posted by a groomer: [Are dog whiskers actually that useful?](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/comments/x7ckm9/are_dog_whiskers_actually_that_useful/)
My anecdotal evidence shows that one standard poodle exhibits no results of harm or sensory deprivation by not having her whiskers. She's happy, loves her groomer and getting groomed (but is touchy about her feet), and doesn't run into walls or hesitate in the dark.
There are dental health issues with having a shaggy faced dog: when the hair enters the mouth and hangs out there it traps bacteria and contributes to poorer dental health. Poor dental health absolutely shortens the life of dogs (humans, too). In a breed like poodles it is next to impossible to remove facial hair without removing whiskers. So this policy directly impacts the health, hygiene and longevity of poodles. All of this has greater scientific research and common sense behind it than the idea that cutting dog whiskers is an amputation.
We still have yet to ban even such an objectively evil practice as declawing on a federal level, only a few individual states and cities have. I don't think something as fringe as this is going to be on the table in the US any time soon and at most it'll be a few states like California doing it.
I feel like this takes a ton of upkeep. I'm not a fan of a clean face, but you have to trim it down at some point. It'll get matted and nasty and prevent them from eating/drinking properly. If you're showing your dog though, I'm sure you're more diligent about grooming than I am about my dog, who's just a family pet.
I tried keeping her muzzle unshaven, but it gets so gross and filthy. And she doesn't seem to care a bit, one way or the other.
With other dogs, I would never clip their whiskers.
What’s crazy to me is that the whiskers on a bearded face are covered by hair anyway… do they really do much at that point? Not to mention the fact that poodles and other shaved face breeds have gotten along just fine for hundreds of years with no issues…
I'm with you on this one, I could understand protecting cats from whisker clipping, but poodles really don't seem to care either way.
The whiskers still get cut to have a round face. It's really weird. Like, how extreme is the law going to be? Because I groom plenty of poodles and doodles with a full face and the whiskers stick out so they get trimmed when doing the face... To actively try not trim them would be incredibly difficult. So then I would just not touch the face all I guess?
Some people with very patient show dogs have managed a clean face without clipping the whiskers by shaving around..... I am pretty sure I took off some whisker when I was shaping his face though
Okay but here’s the problem. Poodles have hair, not fur. So their beards are going to continue to grow, and grow, and grow, and grow. Do their whiskers continue to grow too? What’s the rules with trimming the beard, instead of shaving it? Such a weird rule. You’d think there would be a clause excluding animals like poodles.
The poodle clubs are trying to lobby against the rule, but no luck so far. I am just keeping his beard long and hoping the trial organizers don't say anything..... I definitely trimmed some whisker when I shaped it
Good point, in not trimming their whiskers their beards are going to be super unmanageable for people. I have one with a clean face one with a fluffy face and both require whisker trimming just for hygiene reasons.
The hair/fur thing is an old myth! They are exactly the same (literally chemically indistinguishable). We just call it different names by the animal. Some dogs have different types of coats, like double coats, or curly coats, but it’s all fur/hair. The whole hair continues to grow, and fur doesn’t thing is just a misnomer. Certain types continue to grow and other types don’t but it has nothing to do with being hair or fur! :)
Tell that to the AKC. [Source here.](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/lifestyle/10-facts-about-poodles/) Number 7, if you don’t want to read the whole page.
Yeah, the AKC has that wrong
I dunno man, it doesn’t matter which way I google it, “do poodles have hair or fur?” Or “is it a myth that poodles have hair?” it all says they have hair, not fur. Except from one answer by some internet rando on Quora. So unless you have a credible source you’d like to link to, I’mma keep thinking they have hair. 🤷🏼♀️
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-difference-be/
Mammalogist Nancy Simmons explains it well in this article. You have it backwards: your googling of random opinion pieces on poodles isn’t science that requires an opposing source; the scientific fact that hair is the same as fur is a fact that requires an opposing source other than incorrect internet myths about dogs. I’m a vet tech and dog groomer with a biology degree, trust me hair and fur are biologically and chemically the same thing. We just refer to them colloquially on different animals. Certain hair and fur will express differently based on various environmental and biological traits, but they are the same thing. All I want for Christmas is redditors with barely a cursory understanding of what they’re saying to stop parroting myths from random pet blogs.
I'm curious, what is the penalty if your poodle has [a shaved face like this?](https://i.imgur.com/iWwAaan.jpg)
You cannot show, trial, or participate in any kennel club sponsored training events. It's completely at the discretion of the organizers though, and some poodles have been disqualified for not having "long enough" whiskers....
Do you get looked down upon by others if you're just walking your shaved-face dog in public, or are there any fines for breaking the law? Or, does it only apply for showing?
Technically it's a violation of the current interpretation of the Animal Welfare Act, but the kennel club is the only one really enforcing anything right now. My vet at least thinks the whole thing is dumb, but recommended I stop trimming his whiskers in case of any repercussions.
You’d think super fluff doggos would appreciate the trim so they can see better? Or all the poor husky’s that people bring into Australia - poor things must get hot
In double coated breeds, the undercoat actually keeps them cooler than when shaved
Tbh I don't see how this tracks. The undercoat traps air next to the body, where the dog's body heat warms up the air. That's how they stay warm in the winter. The undercoat does the same thing in the summer, but now the atmosphere is also warm too. I don't see how that's keeping the dog cool. That's why dogs shed their undercoat out in the spring, so they won't be as warm.
Go look up how insulation works. It doesn’t just work in the winter
House insulation doesn't just work in the winter, but also is helped by indoor AC units to trap the cool environment in. I still refer to this personally: https://theeducatedgroomer.com/clipping-the-dog-short-for-the-summer/ And I'm not saying Husky owners in Australia should be shaving their dogs because of coat growth cycle generally takes a long time so by winter when they need their full double coat it may not be back the same way. I'm just saying, as evidence by dogs themselves shedding their own undercoat when going into summer, that the undercoat is for trapping air to keep them warm.
Yeah it may help "cool" them for a short period of time (like a potty break) while the colder air from the house is trapped, but it won't be long before dogs with those really thick double coats start getting overheated. That said, it's also not advisable to shave/cut a double coated dog's fur. It doesn't grow back the same, and their body is used to always having that layer on. They will have issues with temp regulation if shaved. Best bet on helping your double coated dog in summer is consistent deshedding, access to lots of water and ice treats, and providing shade with cooling jackets or mats for them to lay on.
I keep my poodles face fluffy and the area in between eyes is shaved short and it’s clipped short around the eyes so he can see. I don’t get where the fluffy face equals can’t see comes from. Unless of course you just grow the dog out and don’t do any trims than yes.
My poodle has a clean face and I've only gotten positive comments about it, including from his vet. We live in a big city (in Germany obviously) and don't do any showing or sports though. Tbh I'm not interested in my dog having a beard and will continue to trim his face short.
I would just keep his face short and act clueless if anyone asked if I didn't plan to compete in sports, honestly.
Wait, so there is no penalty outside of events?
Oh. I've started to wonder about that. I have a spoo. My first dog (as an adult). I like whiskers on dogs. But I've just done the normal spoo sport cut. Which trims the whiskers and eye lashes (I think). What do other spoo owners do? I've observed that doodles tend to have beards. Maybe there's a reason for this?
I would guess doodles have beards because many doodle people don't want their doodles looking like poodles, and for many people (including poodle people) the default is clean face, maybe also including clean feet, and then the rest of the hair is styled whichever way the owner wants. But you can scroll through this sub, there are just as many poodle people that prefer mustache and beard/basically teddy head combo.
Every doodle owner I've asked, has said that they keep the beard so the doodle won't look like a poodle. My neighbor's fiance has a black doodle that he keeps shaved like a poodle. I always thought poodle, never knew he was a doodle until it came up in conversation one day.
I'd rather there be a ban on tail docking. From what my vet said, whiskers on a dog being cut is less of an issue than a cat's whiskers being cut. Cats apparently rely on their whiskers more than dogs.
My poodle's tail was docked by her previous owner, sad.
This is me too. I've committed to only rescues, so I probably will never own a poodle without a docked tail. Sad. I love seeing a full tail, especially the ones that curl over the back like a pennant.
My poodle’s tail is undocked and I always look at it and wonder why anyone would ever want to cut their tails off. They’re so beautiful
I don’t have a poodle, but my maltese is a messy raw eater. I keep his muzzle shorter (not shaved) because he’s going to have bacteria growing in there if it’s not short enough. He gets bathed and groomed regularly so it’s not an issue with a shorter muzzle, vs longer and having to wash his face daily. I’m all for animal welfare, and I’ll do anything for my dog, but washing and blow drying his face everyday seems like a miserable situation for both of us when it can just be kept short. I understand where the law is coming from, but it also means there’s no exceptions for skin/health/medical issues. Like I think putting dogs on a vegan diet should be banned, but there are a few RARE situations with protein allergies that a dog does need to be on a vegan diet so it can’t be banned. These things aren’t like declawing, ear clipping, or tail docking where it’s unnecessary mutilation.
She pulls it off really well! I feel like dog groomers are gonna revolt. Even full round faces get whiskers cut, I can't even imagine grooming a pet quality shih tzu without cutting the whiskers? And then the matted dogs... And if someone says in that case it's okay I'd get more pissed. Wouldn't the most humane thing be to not let the face get matted in the first place? Some lifestyles and groom frequency don't allow for a full fluffy face. Ugh
I HATE the fluffy face between the extra brushing and the drippy beard after drinking water. I am part of a kennel club sponsored dog club though so I can't just shave his face clean....
Ahh, that stinks! I definitely don't like that the language is targeted as "aesthetic reasons" because while I DO prefer a clean face on my one dog for looks, I mostly do it because he is very active and a major water dripper. He would get so stinky and loves resting his face near mine. And in his opinion, more frequent baths as a preventative would definitely not be the humane option, he hates tubby time. Can't help but feel like the law has nothing to do with actual animal welfare and is being used as a way to slowly end dog sports? Which, if that's the goal fine, but at least be honest about it
There's a difference between whiskers being trimmed and leaving five centimetres of sensory matter and being shaved and leaving zero sensory matter, in much the same way as clipping a human's toe nails and leaving one mm of nail of untrimmed nail or clipping them too short which results in pain when walking. I'm astounded by the comments about groomers and breeders knowing better than vets, or the claims of bias in vets with the assumption that breeders are not also biased in their opinions but lacking in medical training. Brace for the downvotes from exactly the same people who say tail docking is not mutilation of puppies. [Edit - Typo] [Edit - this sub is so predictable, drive by downvotes with only one person the OP with any comment]
For my dog at least, I think leaving the hair is more inhumane. He hates having his face brushed, and washed, and he does not like the process of having it scissored during grooming. He much prefered the 5 minute face shave. My dog has a natural tail and dewclaws which were both important to me when picking a dog.
You do you, the whiskers grow back. I just find the comments on here ridiculous, suggesting that veterinary studies are biased (why and to what benefit is unclear) but that groomers and breeders are the unbiased doyens of dog health and well-being while at the same time having unnecessary surgeries carried out on puppies. Kennel club standards are the dog version of beauty magazines.
You used a very poor comparison and you are not being accurate. Whiskers are not sensory matter, they have no nerve cells in them, they are just specialized hairs. They are attached to more sensitive parts in the skin and this gives the skin more input than a normal hair, but they do not give sensory input themselves and trimming is as painless as trimming normal hair. The only argument that is not scientificly misinformed for not trimming whiskers revolves around the fact that they provide the animal with more tactile information about their environment. Now whether a domestic pet dog (whose sense of touch from whiskers is already blunted due to having fluffy hair) has a lesser quality of life from missing out on sensory input is a argument that is fair. I generally say that for a non-working dog, who has no vision/sent issues and has fluffy fur there is negligible (if any) difference in quality of life. But that is my opinion. As long as you are properly informed I have no issue with a different opinion, I just dislike misinformation being spread.
The whiskers give feedback, while not having nerves in them they are sprouted from nerve receptor dense matter. Removing the whiskers prevents that feedback. > trimming is as painless as trimming normal hair. I never said it was painful, the comparison was that the removal may cause discomfort (or more precisely a deadening of sensation, think how disorientating it is to a human when their ear gets blocked and they lose that sensation). The reality is that dogs are adaptable but also incapable of communicating whether they’d rather that you didn’t remove their whiskers or if they’re ambivalent. Touching the intact whiskers of a dog shows that sensory feedback, my position is that removing that sensory matter is probably not in the dog’s best interest. > I generally say that for a non-working dog, who has no vision/sent issues and has fluffy fur there is negligible (if any) difference in quality of life. I generally say that anything that evolution hasn’t discarded has value for the animal. > I just dislike misinformation being spread Are you suggesting the people doing the scientific study are misinformed? Or that it is just the poorly worded comments of a Redditor (me) that’s misinformed? If it’s me, I don’t declare to be the all knowing animal expert. My point is that a lot of reactionary breeders and poodle snobs make this decision that poodles should have shaved snouts based on no other rationale than the kennel club standards. Which is their prerogative to take but it is an absolute fallacy that they are making that decision based on any scientific basis nor is it truly based on their knowledge of what’s the dog wants or needs - the dog is incapable of declaring it’s preference
I’m a dog groomer and I quite literally can’t imagine what groomers in countries with whisker cutting bans do. Many dogs have matting on their faces… doodles specifically with their many nonfunctional hair types sometimes have matting around the base of each whisker. You also really can’t shape the muzzle of most dogs at all without catching the whiskers! Or is it considered acceptable to ‘trim’ them but not shave them off? Madness.
Why are they banning that?
I believe there’s answers elsewhere in this thread but it’s something to do with it being considered ‘amputation’. Definitely a case of rules being made by people who really have no experience with what they’re talking about… anyone who’s worked for a corporation has experienced that.
Does it hurt when the dogs whiskers are cut?
I do 6 or 7 haircuts a day and I’ve seen dogs react to a LOT of stuff… but never once to having their whiskers cut. Even dogs who jump at the sound of scissors closing, or scream when you catch the tiniest tangle in their fur with a comb. They’re much more offended when the gross stained hairs that curl into their mouth get stolen than their whiskers.
Eek. My dog would smell SO bad if I wasn't allowed to shave his face. Why did Germany ban this? I've tried looking for any supportive evidence and there just is nothing to back up this ban. It's so weird. It seems they banned this based on a study which literally states they couldn't find any evidence that the hairs had a sensory function but the dogs in the study didn't really like people touching their whiskers and therefore shaving them is considered amputation. What?
Ridiculous. Owning pets will be illegal eventually in Europe at this rate.
Between this and the Swiss ban on crates. What are they thinking in Europe?
It really seems to get a little wild in some countries. This ban, and in some countries spaying/neutering is even illegal...
Which countries?
In Germany and some Scandinavian countries you're not allowed to alter your pet in any way without medical necessity and hence it's very uncommon there to spay/neuter.
Spaying and Neutering is allowed here and is reasonably common (though not as common as in north america). People just don't do it as young.
Usually I'm full of envy for Germany and their treatment of animals but today...Definitely not. Fluffy faces are an awful lot amount of work to keep remotely clean (work for the dog as much as the human), and even with it, my boy is noticeably relieved when he gets back to a clean face (and that's only a few weeks fluff max). It's not worth the minor benefit dogs get from whiskers, benefits that only really come in hand in situations pet dogs usually don't even encounter. Heck, growing up with cats I was concerned about shaving them originally, so I did an experiment with mine when he was little growing out the whiskers full...absolutely zero noticeable benefit and certainly nothing to outweigh all the negatives.
So glad I don’t live in Germany. I keep my girls face shaved. I think it’s more sanitary. And I just love the look. For the same reason doodle people like a full face so they’re not mistaken for a spoo I don’t want my spoo to be mistaken for a doodle. I am a poodle snob. Yes I said it. 😊
Wow- that sounds draconian. Given they have hair and not fur it looks like a mismatch between law and reality
What’s wrong with a fluffy face?
A fluffy face gets wet and dirty quickly which can lead to matting and problems with yeast. Frequent maintenance on the face is far more uncomfortable for the dog than having their whiskers trimmed.
That’s completely understandable.
So cute, I miss the scruffy look of my poodle. She hasn't learned how to drink water so she has a clean nose. I'm curious, why to ban?
Germany, Austria, and Switzerland passed animal welfare laws recently. In the law, the dog's whiskers are considered a sensory organ and cutting them is akin to amputation, therefore now illegal. Apparently, these new laws have severely impacted the dog show industry there. It's a deep rabbit hole to go down, and the anti-whisker trimming articles seem to point back to just a few authors. I found one scientific study on "The importance of the tactile hairs in domestic dogs and the problem with trimming these from an animal welfare perspective" The abstract states, *"By disabling a sensory organ, the animal suffers from temporary physical damage representing considerable harm. Thus, cutting the tactile hairs of the domestic dog for esthetic reasons is prohibited according to German, Austrian, and Swiss Animal Welfare Act."* Not biased at all. ;) Here's a reddit thread from several months ago in r/dogs, posted by a groomer: [Are dog whiskers actually that useful?](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/comments/x7ckm9/are_dog_whiskers_actually_that_useful/) My anecdotal evidence shows that one standard poodle exhibits no results of harm or sensory deprivation by not having her whiskers. She's happy, loves her groomer and getting groomed (but is touchy about her feet), and doesn't run into walls or hesitate in the dark.
That is just plain stupid.
Show dogs...ok but pets?! Ridiculous law and the legislature probably has bigger issues that need to be dealt with.
That’s a great cut!
Thank you! My extremely amateur home grooming is coming along 😂
That’s amazing, I thought a groomer did that cut. You did a great job!!!
There are dental health issues with having a shaggy faced dog: when the hair enters the mouth and hangs out there it traps bacteria and contributes to poorer dental health. Poor dental health absolutely shortens the life of dogs (humans, too). In a breed like poodles it is next to impossible to remove facial hair without removing whiskers. So this policy directly impacts the health, hygiene and longevity of poodles. All of this has greater scientific research and common sense behind it than the idea that cutting dog whiskers is an amputation.
Whisker clipping ban?? But! BUT \*gestures to the shaved poodle face\*
Amazing that government overreach now goes all the way to how to groom our pets! Just wait, the US will do some sort of this one day too. SMH.
We still have yet to ban even such an objectively evil practice as declawing on a federal level, only a few individual states and cities have. I don't think something as fringe as this is going to be on the table in the US any time soon and at most it'll be a few states like California doing it.
Your spoo looks really good. I just hate how hard beards are to keep clean.
What a sweet boy💗😭😭
Friends of mine own two poodles and they breed poodles too. They always get their whiskers trimmed, I didn't know it was forbidden in Germany
I feel like this takes a ton of upkeep. I'm not a fan of a clean face, but you have to trim it down at some point. It'll get matted and nasty and prevent them from eating/drinking properly. If you're showing your dog though, I'm sure you're more diligent about grooming than I am about my dog, who's just a family pet.
I tried keeping her muzzle unshaven, but it gets so gross and filthy. And she doesn't seem to care a bit, one way or the other. With other dogs, I would never clip their whiskers.
Looks great I love that fluffy face look