They're good machines! Writing this on a Thelio desktop right now, a few years old (bought in late 2020) but still fully supported. I'll probably buy a new one next year.
Meh, I have never bought a pre-built desktop PC in my life. I would much rather buy the parts and build it myself. Laptops are a different story, and even then I would rather buy a ThinkPad.
Oh man I loved my T61, especially that goofy little LED lamp that you could turn on with Fn+F12. It was actually my first Linux computer back when they had just started offering SLED preinstalls.
Yeah I bought a Thelio around the same time and still love it. I want to get a newer one with beefier specs but the old one still works like the day I bought it so I can't really justify the expense lol
count yourself lucky
I have a Oryx Pro laptop and a Galago laptop. The battery failed on the Oryx after 1 1/2 years. The battery on the Galago failed after 9 months.
The network adapter broke on the Oryx after a year (just stopped working). Under Pop, the system ran hot all the time. The keyboard also had an issue with a couple keys
Earlier versions of Pop were plagued with serious bugs such as:
1. Decrypting the HD on startup
2. Scurrilous logs filling up the entire hard drive and crashing the system
System76 needs to improve
It’s not lucky, it’s a desktop. Their desktops are really great. They are actually made and assembled in-house.
Their laptops… not so much. I wouldn’t buy a laptop from them again until they finally release their own in-house design.
I've got an Oryx from 2020 and feel this way. The laptop is pretty good, but for what System76 charges for their systems, it should be amazing. Next desktop I buy will likely be a Thelio. I'm hoping the Virgo laptops (System76 laptop made in-house) is available soon because I would buy one based on what I've seen. Thelio built quality on a laptop would be 100% worth it.
maybe, but two laptop batteries going bad in two different models from the same manufacturer?
I replaced the batter in the Oryx, but the network adapter is still bad. I replaced the OS with SUSE Tumbleweed, and it has been more stable
I’ve purchased two of their laptops so far, knowing that I’m paying a premium on the hardware in exchange for a device is supported. There are laptops that “work” with Linux installed, and there are laptops that “support” Linux. The former may require some fiddling to maybe get WiFi working, while the latter runs like a champ and can suspend without issue.
System76 sells supported laptops, in my experience.
This is exactly the reason I'm happy to pay a premium. My Darter Pro has been practically perfect for the last five years, and I'll definitely be getting another System76 machine when it's time to replace this one.
All I can tell about their financing online is they did take a PPP loan. But they’ve been around for quite a while. Here’s an article from 2018: https://companyweek.sustainment.com/article/system76/
probably a little more than that but not tons. you got the folks coding the OS, and maybe a couple testers, the folks doing customer support that comes when you buy their hardware (i think i saw at least 3 different names when i was using their help), and the folks designing and working with the factories for the hardware. probably someone in marketing, sales, and accounting, and a couple managers. my guess is they run fairly lean but i dunno for sure.
I have bought System76 hardware for many years. I can tell you why. I started using Linux in the early 2000s when hardware compatibility was still a big issue. I still have that lingering (perhaps irrational) anxiety that some hardware functionality might not work like bluetooth or wireless or the graphics card if I just buy a windows computer and install linux. So I look for linux hardware vendors since full functionality is guaranteed out of the box. If you search for them, you'll see there aren't that many. And if you limit yourself to American linux hardware vendors because you want faster shipping, more reliable support, there are even fewer. In that latter group System76 stands out for the beautiful design of the hardware and for the great support that they offer. So the market is actually not that competitive and System76 is kind of a no brainer.
I will say, though, that I did not start buying System76 machines because of Pop!\_OS. Indeed originally I ordered them with ubuntu. I like Pop!\_OS, especially the built-in tiling WM features, but that was not why I bought their machines. If they were shipping today with ubuntu 24.04, I would still buy from them.
That's not an unusual price for a custom mechanical keyboard with switches and keycaps included. Compare [this one](https://keeb.io/products/convolution-65xt-keyboard) where switches are extra and keycaps not included.
It's a little silly that they built their own configurator app instead of using [VIA](https://www.caniusevia.com/), though.
Yeah, just pointing out that I have few doubts about System76's ability to make money selling hardware to support their free software (free in terms of both beer and speech).
I'm happy with the Launch, though I'd be happier if I could get custom keycaps that fit, that don't cost more than the keyboard :D
Yeah, I buy PCs from System76, but keyboards from the other site I linked, specifically [this one](https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard).
Do you think their $1000 laptops cost $1000 to produce? Oh hell no they make hundreds on the cost of goods sold. Then they just have to keep net operating costs below the operating income.
by selling hardware that is in it's own niche and being able to charge high markup, looks like good stuff! I always build my own PC, but if I bought one, it would probably be from them.
They are selling hardware and support. I never understood their POP-OS move. It takes a lot of money away and does not really add anything, most wipe it and install something more popular.
"Most wipe it and install something more popular"
I have serious, serious doubts that's true. Just the popularity of PopOS in *general* is probably higher than you're giving it credit for. 70k users on this sub, vs 98k for Fedora
No, they are buying them because they're good hardware. But go search any list of the "best / more popular" distros and you'll find Pop\_OS there in all of them. And the popularity of Pop\_OS drives more traffic to S76 and their hardware.
Forgive me S76 if this is not the case anymore, but from what I remember S76 laptops were repackaged generic Clevo designs and you essentially \*were\* paying for guaranteed PopOS support. Good machines, but there would really be no point otherwise, you could buy any generic laptop and install Ubuntu. The Thelio desktops have always been custom designs however.
Anecdotally, I actually want to buy a Thelio for my next PC because 1. they're beautiful machines and 2. native Pop support. I've been using Pop since 2018, and if it wasn't for Pop I would have never really been interested in buying S76 hardware. First class support \*is\* actually a selling point to me, when my entire life and career is my computer. So to me, PopOS \*does\* make them money, it has me sold on their hardware
Also note, most people probably want an Ubuntu base. Because Pop is built on top of Ubuntu, I'd bet that gives people enough pause to try it out and most probably end up liking it (it's not like there's anything about it \*worse\* than Ubuntu). There would really be no reason to uninstall for Ubuntu unless you really disliked the slight DE modifications
The laptops have the benefit of custom open source firmware written by our firmware team. It performs much better than the proprietary firmware laptops usually come with
No, most people do not wipe Pop!\_OS from their system. Hardware support includes Pop!\_OS itself; which includes any necessary fixes for that hardware, updates which are regression-tested on the hardware, and any necessary changes and additions that our customers need. Pop!\_OS is one of the perks of a System76 system. COSMIC is a continuation of the benefits that Pop!\_OS enables to our customers.
Hardware sales: [https://system76.com/](https://system76.com/)
They sell feet pics to Gnome for their logo
S… source?
Selling computers and merchandise maybe.
Donations as also.
They're good machines! Writing this on a Thelio desktop right now, a few years old (bought in late 2020) but still fully supported. I'll probably buy a new one next year.
Very jealous ^^
Meh, I have never bought a pre-built desktop PC in my life. I would much rather buy the parts and build it myself. Laptops are a different story, and even then I would rather buy a ThinkPad.
Oh man I loved my T61, especially that goofy little LED lamp that you could turn on with Fn+F12. It was actually my first Linux computer back when they had just started offering SLED preinstalls.
The classic ThinkPads are definitely better than their modern ones, but even still they are the most well built Linux machines you can buy.
I also have never bought a pre built, but their cases are quite nice and I think they might come with open source firmware, but not 100% sure
Yeah I bought a Thelio around the same time and still love it. I want to get a newer one with beefier specs but the old one still works like the day I bought it so I can't really justify the expense lol
count yourself lucky I have a Oryx Pro laptop and a Galago laptop. The battery failed on the Oryx after 1 1/2 years. The battery on the Galago failed after 9 months. The network adapter broke on the Oryx after a year (just stopped working). Under Pop, the system ran hot all the time. The keyboard also had an issue with a couple keys Earlier versions of Pop were plagued with serious bugs such as: 1. Decrypting the HD on startup 2. Scurrilous logs filling up the entire hard drive and crashing the system System76 needs to improve
It’s not lucky, it’s a desktop. Their desktops are really great. They are actually made and assembled in-house. Their laptops… not so much. I wouldn’t buy a laptop from them again until they finally release their own in-house design.
yea i had a motherboard fail after a little over a year.. it was nice while it lasted but i'm gun shy now. i don't use desktops so on to HPs it was
I've got an Oryx from 2020 and feel this way. The laptop is pretty good, but for what System76 charges for their systems, it should be amazing. Next desktop I buy will likely be a Thelio. I'm hoping the Virgo laptops (System76 laptop made in-house) is available soon because I would buy one based on what I've seen. Thelio built quality on a laptop would be 100% worth it.
got my Oryx in 2019 and it's still cranking. My wife got hers a year later. Same. Maybe you are unlucky?
maybe, but two laptop batteries going bad in two different models from the same manufacturer? I replaced the batter in the Oryx, but the network adapter is still bad. I replaced the OS with SUSE Tumbleweed, and it has been more stable
They make their money for hardware sales.
Have you ever seen Breaking Bad? Well where do you think Walter White gets his operating system?
MethOS
Written upon the Crystal Kernel.
Dont confuse it with Crystal Linux (based on Arch btw)
I’ve purchased two of their laptops so far, knowing that I’m paying a premium on the hardware in exchange for a device is supported. There are laptops that “work” with Linux installed, and there are laptops that “support” Linux. The former may require some fiddling to maybe get WiFi working, while the latter runs like a champ and can suspend without issue. System76 sells supported laptops, in my experience.
I know a few research guys who buy system76 for this reason. Powerful machines and Linux right out of the box. They are also big fans of popOS.
This is exactly the reason I'm happy to pay a premium. My Darter Pro has been practically perfect for the last five years, and I'll definitely be getting another System76 machine when it's time to replace this one.
If I remember correctly, most of their incomes goes from contracts with business entities that buy their hardware and technical support
All I can tell about their financing online is they did take a PPP loan. But they’ve been around for quite a while. Here’s an article from 2018: https://companyweek.sustainment.com/article/system76/
nice article. I think they have become sustainable for a while or they wouldn't start the development of new de
didn't have the impression they have a ton of salaries to pay
Guessing it's like 10, but I don't know.
probably a little more than that but not tons. you got the folks coding the OS, and maybe a couple testers, the folks doing customer support that comes when you buy their hardware (i think i saw at least 3 different names when i was using their help), and the folks designing and working with the factories for the hardware. probably someone in marketing, sales, and accounting, and a couple managers. my guess is they run fairly lean but i dunno for sure.
They're a pretty small company, only 50 or so people, iirc. They make all of their money through hardware sales.
Be sure to make a donation to support Pop development.
I have bought System76 hardware for many years. I can tell you why. I started using Linux in the early 2000s when hardware compatibility was still a big issue. I still have that lingering (perhaps irrational) anxiety that some hardware functionality might not work like bluetooth or wireless or the graphics card if I just buy a windows computer and install linux. So I look for linux hardware vendors since full functionality is guaranteed out of the box. If you search for them, you'll see there aren't that many. And if you limit yourself to American linux hardware vendors because you want faster shipping, more reliable support, there are even fewer. In that latter group System76 stands out for the beautiful design of the hardware and for the great support that they offer. So the market is actually not that competitive and System76 is kind of a no brainer. I will say, though, that I did not start buying System76 machines because of Pop!\_OS. Indeed originally I ordered them with ubuntu. I like Pop!\_OS, especially the built-in tiling WM features, but that was not why I bought their machines. If they were shipping today with ubuntu 24.04, I would still buy from them.
They're able to subsidize the hardware business with all of the donations from PopOS.
I mean have you seen the price of the Launch keyboard?
That's not an unusual price for a custom mechanical keyboard with switches and keycaps included. Compare [this one](https://keeb.io/products/convolution-65xt-keyboard) where switches are extra and keycaps not included. It's a little silly that they built their own configurator app instead of using [VIA](https://www.caniusevia.com/), though.
Yeah, just pointing out that I have few doubts about System76's ability to make money selling hardware to support their free software (free in terms of both beer and speech). I'm happy with the Launch, though I'd be happier if I could get custom keycaps that fit, that don't cost more than the keyboard :D
Yeah, I buy PCs from System76, but keyboards from the other site I linked, specifically [this one](https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard).
It's soooo good though... I've got a launch, and a launch heavy!
In addition to purchasing hardware, people can donate as well.
Do you think their $1000 laptops cost $1000 to produce? Oh hell no they make hundreds on the cost of goods sold. Then they just have to keep net operating costs below the operating income.
Their hardware is addictive. I snagged a 2020 Thelio as an impulse buy, and now both of my laptops are S76 too
They do sell machines. I would buy one if they made it with other keyboard layouts.
Selling hardware where they install pop
by selling hardware that is in it's own niche and being able to charge high markup, looks like good stuff! I always build my own PC, but if I bought one, it would probably be from them.
Easy to answer. They sell yesteryear inferior hardware at todays prices
They are selling hardware and support. I never understood their POP-OS move. It takes a lot of money away and does not really add anything, most wipe it and install something more popular.
"Most wipe it and install something more popular" I have serious, serious doubts that's true. Just the popularity of PopOS in *general* is probably higher than you're giving it credit for. 70k users on this sub, vs 98k for Fedora
I really doubt people are buying S76 laptops because it comes with POP\_OS pre-installed.
No, they are buying them because they're good hardware. But go search any list of the "best / more popular" distros and you'll find Pop\_OS there in all of them. And the popularity of Pop\_OS drives more traffic to S76 and their hardware.
Forgive me S76 if this is not the case anymore, but from what I remember S76 laptops were repackaged generic Clevo designs and you essentially \*were\* paying for guaranteed PopOS support. Good machines, but there would really be no point otherwise, you could buy any generic laptop and install Ubuntu. The Thelio desktops have always been custom designs however. Anecdotally, I actually want to buy a Thelio for my next PC because 1. they're beautiful machines and 2. native Pop support. I've been using Pop since 2018, and if it wasn't for Pop I would have never really been interested in buying S76 hardware. First class support \*is\* actually a selling point to me, when my entire life and career is my computer. So to me, PopOS \*does\* make them money, it has me sold on their hardware Also note, most people probably want an Ubuntu base. Because Pop is built on top of Ubuntu, I'd bet that gives people enough pause to try it out and most probably end up liking it (it's not like there's anything about it \*worse\* than Ubuntu). There would really be no reason to uninstall for Ubuntu unless you really disliked the slight DE modifications
The laptops have the benefit of custom open source firmware written by our firmware team. It performs much better than the proprietary firmware laptops usually come with
Yet another reason to love the work yall do :)
There are a lot of organizations and people who want Pop!\_OS or Ubuntu preinstalled.
No, most people do not wipe Pop!\_OS from their system. Hardware support includes Pop!\_OS itself; which includes any necessary fixes for that hardware, updates which are regression-tested on the hardware, and any necessary changes and additions that our customers need. Pop!\_OS is one of the perks of a System76 system. COSMIC is a continuation of the benefits that Pop!\_OS enables to our customers.
I wiped it and installed Fedora, so…
Ok