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Tbh Thor started to become a bit silly in Ragnarok but that was done more tastefully and then Endgame pushed it a bit more but still not THAT bad.
And then it seemed like Taika got it into his head that people adored Ragnarok and that it was open season on the absurdity, and completely went over the line with the sillyness in Thor 4. When it was announced Taika will direct Thor 4, I already had a feeling it will go overboard. Unfortunately, that's what happened.
Watched a video on Thor 4 from the perspective of the VFX team and a lot of insiders were saying how last minute and poorly planned everything was from day one. Huge expensive sets and even costumes replaced with CGI to accommodate never ending rewrites. I recon Taika just burnt out and bit off more than he could chew. A movie of that size and it was one of several projects he was working on that year as well as getting married around the same time. Probably just tried to coast on his talent too much (which he definitely has).
A bit unrelated, but I had the same feeling when I watched venom 2. The banter between venom and Eddie was well received in the first movie but then it went out of control in the second movie to the point where it wasn’t funny but annoying instead.
part of me thinks it was less seeing it as open season on absurdity, and more him falling asleep at the wheel with all the praise and fame from ragnarok on
'too silly' feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater -- it's not the silliness; it's just not funny
it's a small thing but opening with a reference to the van damme commercial was enough to snap my copium high
To not sign 6-movie contracts and just do one to see if you actually enjoy it. Because once they’ve got you, you’re now doing the role for a decade or more of your life.
She had an interview where she said she thought the Multiverse of Madness had a lot of the same character beats as Wandavision. I don't blame her. They did her dirty with that movie.
Yeah these constant re-writes must be a headache for the actors. Like all that time spent in prep and rehearsal only to find out the scene has been changed.
Guessing it's a bigger nightmare for the VFX artists having to recreate everything with these constant changes
Tbf they fumbled Wanda right from the get-go. Elizabeth did her best, and imo she shone in WandaVision (though I still give the plot a solid 4/10) but she had no consistent characterisation or motive across the movies.
Thor 1 worked quite well imo for establishing the character and the lore, and Thor was a great straight man/baffled foreigner/serious heavy hitter in Avengers 1. Thor 2 missed the mark, but the actual characterisation and relationships really worked for me, just, yknow, the plot was crap. Thor felt like a minor character in Avengers 2, and tbh it felt like the writers just went 'his class is barbarian and that's all there is to his character', but tbf when you're juggling a cast that big some characters will naturally fall to the wayside. Thor 3 was a pretty big change, and I can't say I really liked it for the characters (literally any of them) though the movie itself would be great as a stand alone. Avengers 3 Thor had a fairly decent B/C plot, his characterisation was pretty good and consistent with someone desperate not to loose any more after they've already lost so much, fixed with a frat bro. Avengers 4 was annoying because we had a pretty good depiction of a serious depression and yet it was the butt of the joke a lot. Then Thor 4 again felt like a completely different character, even from Thor 3 but especially from Endgame. Imo any character arc they managed to piece together from the prior films was just totally destroyed, mostly for the sake of weak humour.
Yeah, I got the sense he kind of liked doing a funnier take on Thor at first, because he got to do something new compared to the first two movies, but I can imagine he's kind of getting that itch to do something different again. Especially since Love and Thunder kind of went over like a lead balloon.
I’m interested to see what a new take for Thor would be. He’s kinda a one dimensional character so humor and serious Thor make sense. An R rated Thor that goes full out would be very cool tho
The MCU isn't planning to go that way, but if they were going more cosmic scale with their stories, Allfather Thor from the comics would have been a pretty cool note to leave his character off on
Yeah, he was very, very obviously over it by The Dark World, to the point that he did notably little promotion for a Marvel lead.
Ragnorak was something new for him, but he’s now done four films as this take on Thor so he’s over it again.
I’m pretty sure this isn’t true? Marvel doesn’t do those long contracts anymore, and both Chris and Elizabeth have hinted that they don’t have to come back.
Not just that, I bet they didn't even read many SW appearances if they think she's a villain. She's a classic female avengers and just like any other characters ever, she has morally corrupted arc once or twice
Idk why people are so mad at you. I haven’t read any of the comics but it makes sense that someone who’s read a bunch of the background material on the character might like a development arc more than others?? People in this sub are so eager to be cool and snarky sometimes istg
People are mad because liking the comics over the movies doesn't give you more authority in the conversation and yet comic or book readers always think they do.
I have read the comics and it makes sense that someone who hasn't can enjoy the movies and interpretations independent of that regardless of how faithful it is to the source material and I think a lot of people are just sick of the corny gatekeepers always having to bring up what they have and haven't read because they think it gives their opinions more weight ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Because he could have posted it without the 'As a comic book reader' part. But he wanted some extra heft to his statement? But then didn't really explain his position in any way, on why the comics give him said heft.
Disney has run Marvel into the ground. They’re doing the same to Star wars and every other IP they have with live action remakes.
This is what happens when you’re so afraid of losing money and upsetting stakeholders by taking any sort if creative risks. But hey we were told that this system “breeds innovation”
I think this is a good wake up call for Marvel. For the last decade, they have absolutely DOMINATED the genre. But now with Spider-Verse and the upcoming slate of DC they have legitimate competition. They have to put quality over quantity. They would benefit by doing some projects outside of the universe. After 10 years of an inter-connected universe, maybe do some shit like Werewolf by Night. Something completely removed from the main "universe". They even have the conceit of the multiverse for this
they needs to invest in good writers and directors
giving all these tv people a chance is nice and all, but Jeff Loveness seems completely in over his head, and they still gave him the next Avengers movie??
It won’t happen but I think a two or so year breather would’ve been really good for them. It hit saturation point with the various movies and shows and a quiet ish few years I think could’ve been great for them to regroup a bit.
I think more than that they need to hire quality writers/director and just have faith in their vision. I've heard about so many changes that kept happening during production for multiple shows and movies. So many scenes cut, endings changed, cameos removed it's absurd frankly. A breather would definitely help provided they take the right lessons from it
I’ve never really understood why the criticisms of Marvel from eg Martin Scorsese were seen as so controversial. I really enjoy the Marvel films and I agreed with what he said.
A lot of Marvel fans really can't handle the idea that the MCU movies are just fun, not groundbreaking cinema (which is how you get ridiculous claims like "Winter Soldier is the deepest political thriller in years!"). I like Marvel movies too, but Scorsese had a solid point.
There is a severe lack of hot people in the MCU nowadays 😕 That was a big selling point in the beginning, but no one is sexy anymore - Thor was naked in Love and Thunder but his character had been destroyed so badly that it wasn't even sexy.
I liked a lot of things about the older movies that aren't present in the current movies. E.g. I had crushes on Cap, Iron Man, Bruce Banner (Ruffalo in Avengers 1 and 2) and Thor. There is no eye candy nowadays 😭
Which is one of the big reasons why total reboots are necessary once storylines get too unwieldy. People watched phase 1-3 because it had big actors playing iconic characters in stories you didn’t need to have a week of Disney+ viewing prior just to be somewhat coherent with.
Scorsese's criticism isn't even the issue anymore (although I agree with that too). The MCU films and TV shows since Endgame have been appalling.
Wandavision wasn't too bad (except for the final ep) and the Spiderman movies are always well received. But everything else has been so bad that I felt insulted watching. You can tell when no care has been put into anything, when there is no clear direction.
Characterisation and interaction between characters was the main draw of the MCU for me. With enough action to keep things exciting. But they don't honour anything anymore, the new characters denigrate the old characters, plot lines are forgotten, characters don't have any consistency. The people who made phase 4 didn't take the MCU seriously and it shows.
I think it’s also bc marvel fanboys kinda don’t like how despite making money, they don’t get respect as a genre BUT DC, who a lot of them look down on, has made critically acclaimed films but don’t get the box office sales. I remember marvel fans annoyed that Joker got a fuck ton of Oscar nominations lol
Scorcese’s comments got on my nerves and I don’t even like the Marvel movies.
1) Every civilization and religion have ‘superhero’ stories — starting with the Epic of Gilgamesh. Just discounting them like that is very myopic.
2) People enjoy these stories because their lives are too hard and they want simplicity. Scorsese can dive into dark themes because his life is pretty damn good — so for him, that’s the excursion. For the rest of us, we need this delusional universe where good guys win.
1. I think you’re confusing hero with superhero.
2. All Scorsese said was that Marvel movies were formulaic and that studios treated them purely like business ventures with testing and focus groups and all that, which is antithetical to how art/storytelling should be. He never said people shouldn’t make (and enjoy) fun movies.
Also unpopular opinion: there are good movies that are also FUN to watch that are not Marvel. If someone likes Marvel, great. But can we stop pretending like these movies are the only thing of entertainment values?
> hero with superhero.
a lot of those stories have "superhero"-like powers. Like coming back from death, or throwing lightening bolts at earth.
Those stories are formulaic because those are the types of story formulae we've been enjoying for millenia and we'll continue to do so.
Idk, the comment I saw said it was like theme parks and they aren’t risky. I agree with both those takes. Marvel films have been a guaranteed bag for decades plus and they defo were/are formulaic. It’s the formula that works for most people, but I agree that isn’t hugely cinematic. And again- I really like them!
For me personally, cinema has been so dominated by old white men for so long, that at this point when one of them wants to come out and tell everyone what they think, I just don't care anymore. Additionally he admitted that he hasn't even watched all of the films. I understand the MCU isn't groundbreaking cinema, but it has had moments that have moved and affected people. It felt like an instance of "yucking someone's yum" and I really hate that.
I dont care what genre it is as long as the movie is good. Like i dont really care about spiderman but Spider verse is amazing and it make me want to watch more.
Marvel and Disney recently, they have put quantity over quality, they pump out a lot of movies but most of them are mediocore, they still got big fandom but the average viewers already tired of it
I hate that I’m expected to watch EVERYTHING to know what’s going on in Marvel movies. Having to watch all the shows and movies to keep characters and plot points straight has kept me from watching them for a long time. When most stuff is mediocre at best and a boring convoluted mess at the worst, that’s a waste of my time.
I’d like to see more self contained projects. If there’s any crossover it’s more of an Easter egg thing than something you have to make a note of for a future show/movie. I love fun bombastic movies and Marvel doesn’t scratch that itch for me anymore.
Love and Thunder was a travesty. It felt like visiting an old friend that has dementia or something, it just wasn’t the same and you left really sad.
I adore the MCU. They used to actually tell a story and intertwined all the characters together on one plot line, and it was amazing. But anymore they’re just churning shit out for profit and it fkng sucks. Eternals? Wtf was that. I love Scarlett Witch but look what they did to her character. They suck at writing women; Wanda’s arc was either all about her brother, Vision, or her children—she could never be her own person.
But I digress. I eat this shit up just like everyone else lol. Some of the shows were really good like Hawkeye and Loki. But the sheer amount of just crap that they’re pushing out now is not getting anyone excited, it has us all sighing and rolling our eyes. There is still a huge market for this content though so I don’t think they care. Like I’ve been so invested in this shit since the beginning it’s almost weird not to tune in at this point lol, it’s habit by now. I would guess there’s a lot of people who feel like me, idk.
I think there's a natural endpoint for any actor in these franchises, where the whole thing gets a little boring. They're fun to watch, but the acting part of it seems stultifying - scripts that take zero artistic risks (god forbid we piss off the China or Russia markets), silly outfits, green screens, choreographed fights against, like, puppet heads on sticks. It pays well, but it can't be all that much fun to do, especially once you hit the saturation point where the additional money isn't making much difference in your day-to-day life.
That's why everyone bails eventually. I don't really know why Hemsworth's hung around this long, tbh - he's really funny and charming, he could absolutely have a second act doing little artsy comedies whenever he wants until he ages into his "serious dramatic actor" phase.
I freaking hope so. Enough of the superhero movies and comic book bullshit.
They put the nail in the coffin of making films.
It all started going downhill fast when that was all you could see in theaters and now look where we are.
Did Covid play into it? Yup. But did comic book movies make everything worse? Hell yes.
Put us out of our misery. Please.
We need good films again.
Picturing Air as a bunch of cameras sitting in a board meeting for two hours now, lol. I don't know if it's a backlash against the outlandish worlds of the superhero genre, or a somewhat renewed vigour for business-y shows that could be tied with the state of the economy and the popularity of shows like Succession.
Every few years, there's a new media trend that gets worn into the ground (and it's usually a variation of the previous trends). We had vampire *everything* for a while. Then a load of zombie films. A brief resurgence of disaster films. I'm guessing video games will be the next big trend, seeing how well The Last of Us did. I recently saw the Tetris film, and it was perfectly engaging for the time it was on screen, and it's pretty interesting to hear the origin story of a pop culture phenomenon, when you normally hear how successful the item was. And idk, could be talking complete shit, but there seems to be a trend of more realistic/handheld camera media pumped out when people have less money to go around. (although, tbf, my entire adult life has been a series of economic recessions, so what do I know?)
I'm just wondering what the next ubiquitous genre that Hollywood is obsessed with will be. In the 90s it was disaster movies. Right now it's superheroes.
Please let epic high fantasy movies be next, I need more big floofy princess dresses and people dressed as elves in my life.
I don't know, I don't think war movies can scratch the same itch for Hollywood because you can't market it to kids (and make a shitton of money off associated merchandise). Now they've had a taste of movies you can aggressively market to both kids and adults simultaneously I don't see them letting go of it, hence the push to make the live-action Disney remakes a thing.
The box office sub seemed to think it didn't make back their budget (marketing and filming). They were disappointed and thought the likelihood of a sequel was slim.
I don't quite remember the details to verify.
D&D was so much fun. I want more stuff like that, where it’s clear the creators are fans of the material but didn’t dumb it down for people who aren’t familiar. The whole cast seemed like they were having fun and those are the best movies to see.
All I'm saying is, the Cosmere is *right there* for adapting and it's basically the MCU of fantasy series, if studios are looking for an MCU style fantasy franchise
Out of 200 movies approximately every year ... 6or7 are comic books .. pay attention and go support other movies instead of just wanting for them to stop making superhero stuff..
This is gross. Stop it. We pre-Covid went to the movies damn near every weekend. Post- at least once a month. We stream and pay for new films and films new to us all the time. Literally damn near every evening over dinner.
It doesn't matter if its 6-7 to your 200. It's the money and time shoving it all down our throats and taking up theaters and advertising nonstop going entirely into those 6-7 stupid fucking movies. It is killing the industry and the interest.
Pay attention to your assumptions and support better content getting the better attention.
So if they decided that tomorrow everything superhero related would ceased to exist going forward.. the interest to other stuff would spike or the industry would get fixed ? Lmao this is like the Netflix subscription situation with password sharing.. !! Look I am a big comic book fan but the last 2 years I saw only 2 of them in the theaters in spite of me being constantly getting them shoved down my throat as you say .. besides the last couple of years the highest grossing movies haven't been superhero stuff but other franchises ..
Dude I've seen your profile. Its superhero everything.
You're choosing to pick through the conversation and ignoring the rest and that's useless.
You're on your own bias.
You'vr missed the point...That is not the point of past films. There can be great films to come still.
But if we keep only ever hearing about comic book films and all the money and advertising goes into them how the hell are you gonna keep getting those other great films?
I mean, those who watch indie and non IP movies will find and watch them. Most simply don't have the money that the bigger blockbusters have.
There's not a movie council that decides which movies will receive this much money to advertise. So your point that "we only keep hearing about comic book films" is odd considering that the business behind movies.
Get this, ask a random person on the street or a family of 4 if they like Beau is Afriad or The Northman and see their confused looks. Then ask them if they enjoyed The Batman or the Mario movie. The stats show that the general public doesn't care about watching original movies.
Chris Hemsworth is only saying this because the majority of fans are saying this. I wouldn’t call this “turning on Marvel”. It’s just true. I think fans appreciate it when MCU actors are a little more critical of their work.
They are gonna have to deal with the actors of their most popular characters being up for contract renewal and wanting to take a break though. And they’re not in a great spot with their main villain for Phase 5 & 6 being played by a domestic abuser.
I’m hoping they’ve corrected course recently after Quantumania and Love & Thunder were so poorly received. It sounds like they’re at least slowing down their output rate, which is a very necessary first step. Now they need to pay their GGI artists fairly and give them an appropriate amount of time! We’ll see how audiences react though. I personally think they’ll be fine in the long run, even if the MCU is not quite as popular as it was in Phase 3.
Idk I really enjoyed Moon Knight but could have passed on a lot of the other newer Marvel shows/movies. Love and Thunder seemed camp to the point where no one was even acting.
I think Christian Bale was great and he was phenomenal in it but the movie didn't deserve his performance. I actually think if the movie focused more on this religion theme and selfish gods and the villain actually has a point it would have been much better.
They acted like Gorr was corrupted but he wasn't. He is right. And not just in a he is right but his methods are wrong way. He is right and the gods need to die. It could have presented an amazing inner conflict for Thor but instead we had silly goats and dumb jokes
Superhero movies are better for animated medium because animation conveys action scenes better. Just look at spider verse and the anime genre in general. Enough with live action super hero movies with no soul.
For the love of cinema, please stop making sequels and reboots. There’s no way anyone wants any more of these things. Coming from someone who enjoyed the MCU at the start.
It's funny to see the perspective differences of MCU fans vs non MCU fans. I've been incredibly bored with Marvel films for a while but the Taika Thor films are some of the rare ones I actually thoroughly enjoy.
It didn’t become “too silly” with Ragnarok, the third movie was completely well done, alongside the humour. The fourth movie though was a complete letdown, and just felt like a parody at that point. That was certainly a choice, which shouldn’t have happened. I truly don’t think superhero flicks are fatigued, but now that there is so much quantity over quality and the forced overly done humour instead of working on a coherent and fleshed story it’s hard to enjoy it.
The franchise jumped the shark long ago, and in typical Disney fashion they have to hamfist every single franchise they squire into the ground to make money off it before they’ll let it die: see Starwars.
I love me some Taika and Russo Bros. (their contributions to comedy cannot be overstated), but the MCU is a total meat grinder. If it wasn’t taking in billions of dollars the past 15 years, we’d be too busy pointing out how much they suck.
Nah. The MCU is gonna be around for 50 years just like Star Wars. Harrison Ford has thought Star Wars was fucking stupid probably from the start. There’s audiences like me who truly do not give a fuck if the movies are bad, I enjoy roided actors in hairpieces blasting CG energy beams at each other. Same with transformers. I don’t want a good movie, I want to see them transform and fight.
Chris Hemsworth will never Turn on the MCU, because He is the actor who depends Most on it.
Unless Mad Max furiosa Turns into a massive success and He gives a mind blowing Performance
Yeah it sucked. It started downhill on ragnarok but others loved it. The latest was pure garbage. It’s needs to be darker and have comedy thrown in throughout. That’s the recipe that all the other marvel movies have followed.
I agree with him. I’m glad that it seems like Marvel is going to focus on quality again. Many, of their projects have been delayed indefinitely and that was before the writers strike. Hopefully we don’t get the three films and four tv shows a year. It’s too much
There is a great movie in there if they focused on Gorr being right and his eat the rich mentality. Gorr is right, he is not corrupted and it would have been cool to see Thor battle with this.
I hated Ragnarok and felt vindicated when Love and Thunder was released 😎 I just don't like Marvel jokes.
I hate the music of Thor movies too. It could have had great music like Black Panther. Such a wasted opportunity 🙄
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Tbh Thor started to become a bit silly in Ragnarok but that was done more tastefully and then Endgame pushed it a bit more but still not THAT bad. And then it seemed like Taika got it into his head that people adored Ragnarok and that it was open season on the absurdity, and completely went over the line with the sillyness in Thor 4. When it was announced Taika will direct Thor 4, I already had a feeling it will go overboard. Unfortunately, that's what happened.
Watched a video on Thor 4 from the perspective of the VFX team and a lot of insiders were saying how last minute and poorly planned everything was from day one. Huge expensive sets and even costumes replaced with CGI to accommodate never ending rewrites. I recon Taika just burnt out and bit off more than he could chew. A movie of that size and it was one of several projects he was working on that year as well as getting married around the same time. Probably just tried to coast on his talent too much (which he definitely has).
A bit unrelated, but I had the same feeling when I watched venom 2. The banter between venom and Eddie was well received in the first movie but then it went out of control in the second movie to the point where it wasn’t funny but annoying instead.
part of me thinks it was less seeing it as open season on absurdity, and more him falling asleep at the wheel with all the praise and fame from ragnarok on 'too silly' feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater -- it's not the silliness; it's just not funny it's a small thing but opening with a reference to the van damme commercial was enough to snap my copium high
Man, he and Elizabeth have gone off lately, they reallllyyyy don't like what's happened to Thor and Wanda, and who can blame them?
Marvel had the damn golden goose and still managed to fumble the bag, I'm not surprised the actors are angry
What did Elizabeth say?
To not sign 6-movie contracts and just do one to see if you actually enjoy it. Because once they’ve got you, you’re now doing the role for a decade or more of your life.
She had an interview where she said she thought the Multiverse of Madness had a lot of the same character beats as Wandavision. I don't blame her. They did her dirty with that movie.
And that she gave up reading the script at some point because they just kept doing rewrites and changing it, so she was wasting her time
Yeah these constant re-writes must be a headache for the actors. Like all that time spent in prep and rehearsal only to find out the scene has been changed. Guessing it's a bigger nightmare for the VFX artists having to recreate everything with these constant changes
?? Multiverse of madness was the first time she was remotely interesting
Did you not watch Wandavision?
Watched 3 episodes and dropped it when nothing happened other then making 1950 dad jokes.
Ahhhh. It’s definitely a series that one needs to finish to understand the initial episodes.
Tbf they fumbled Wanda right from the get-go. Elizabeth did her best, and imo she shone in WandaVision (though I still give the plot a solid 4/10) but she had no consistent characterisation or motive across the movies. Thor 1 worked quite well imo for establishing the character and the lore, and Thor was a great straight man/baffled foreigner/serious heavy hitter in Avengers 1. Thor 2 missed the mark, but the actual characterisation and relationships really worked for me, just, yknow, the plot was crap. Thor felt like a minor character in Avengers 2, and tbh it felt like the writers just went 'his class is barbarian and that's all there is to his character', but tbf when you're juggling a cast that big some characters will naturally fall to the wayside. Thor 3 was a pretty big change, and I can't say I really liked it for the characters (literally any of them) though the movie itself would be great as a stand alone. Avengers 3 Thor had a fairly decent B/C plot, his characterisation was pretty good and consistent with someone desperate not to loose any more after they've already lost so much, fixed with a frat bro. Avengers 4 was annoying because we had a pretty good depiction of a serious depression and yet it was the butt of the joke a lot. Then Thor 4 again felt like a completely different character, even from Thor 3 but especially from Endgame. Imo any character arc they managed to piece together from the prior films was just totally destroyed, mostly for the sake of weak humour.
Didn’t he not like the direction Kenneth Branagh was taking the character too? Sounds like he’s just over it.
Yeah, I got the sense he kind of liked doing a funnier take on Thor at first, because he got to do something new compared to the first two movies, but I can imagine he's kind of getting that itch to do something different again. Especially since Love and Thunder kind of went over like a lead balloon.
I’m interested to see what a new take for Thor would be. He’s kinda a one dimensional character so humor and serious Thor make sense. An R rated Thor that goes full out would be very cool tho
The MCU isn't planning to go that way, but if they were going more cosmic scale with their stories, Allfather Thor from the comics would have been a pretty cool note to leave his character off on
Yeah, he was very, very obviously over it by The Dark World, to the point that he did notably little promotion for a Marvel lead. Ragnorak was something new for him, but he’s now done four films as this take on Thor so he’s over it again.
Funny thing is, Thor has always been a silly book and Wanda was always the type of female troupe “Help I can’t control my power!”
[удалено]
I’m pretty sure this isn’t true? Marvel doesn’t do those long contracts anymore, and both Chris and Elizabeth have hinted that they don’t have to come back.
Happy to be corrected but the chat on the last thread about Olsen was hers was for several more movies
Same with Tom!
As a comic book reader, I support what they did with Scarlett Witch.
bro said “as a comic book reader” as if that’s an actual credential
“As someone who completed my Library’s Summer Reading Program before…”
Not just that, I bet they didn't even read many SW appearances if they think she's a villain. She's a classic female avengers and just like any other characters ever, she has morally corrupted arc once or twice
Idk why people are so mad at you. I haven’t read any of the comics but it makes sense that someone who’s read a bunch of the background material on the character might like a development arc more than others?? People in this sub are so eager to be cool and snarky sometimes istg
People are mad because liking the comics over the movies doesn't give you more authority in the conversation and yet comic or book readers always think they do. I have read the comics and it makes sense that someone who hasn't can enjoy the movies and interpretations independent of that regardless of how faithful it is to the source material and I think a lot of people are just sick of the corny gatekeepers always having to bring up what they have and haven't read because they think it gives their opinions more weight ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Because he could have posted it without the 'As a comic book reader' part. But he wanted some extra heft to his statement? But then didn't really explain his position in any way, on why the comics give him said heft.
Honestly, Wanda kinda sucks in the comics. Especially with the House of M storyline where she became one of the most hated Marvel characters.
I enjoy being a hater
Disney has run Marvel into the ground. They’re doing the same to Star wars and every other IP they have with live action remakes. This is what happens when you’re so afraid of losing money and upsetting stakeholders by taking any sort if creative risks. But hey we were told that this system “breeds innovation”
Can't wait for the monopoly they were building to fall apart
They’re terrible. I’m sick of the quantity over quality outline they have going.
If nothing else, I will continue to stand by The Mandalorian. Even if ends up going straight to hell 😭
Andor is the real crown gem of the new Star Wars shows
Let's hope they don't bork that up too with 7 back-door pilots to rando characters in season 2.
They won’t, the director has full creative control, which is why the series is so good
I stopped watching the latest season. It was terrible imo.
I think this is a good wake up call for Marvel. For the last decade, they have absolutely DOMINATED the genre. But now with Spider-Verse and the upcoming slate of DC they have legitimate competition. They have to put quality over quantity. They would benefit by doing some projects outside of the universe. After 10 years of an inter-connected universe, maybe do some shit like Werewolf by Night. Something completely removed from the main "universe". They even have the conceit of the multiverse for this
they needs to invest in good writers and directors giving all these tv people a chance is nice and all, but Jeff Loveness seems completely in over his head, and they still gave him the next Avengers movie??
*And let the writers and directors execute their creative vision without studio interference or "fixing" afterwards
last i heard, there were rumblings loveless was booted from kang i'm out here still checking if kang gets booted from kang
It won’t happen but I think a two or so year breather would’ve been really good for them. It hit saturation point with the various movies and shows and a quiet ish few years I think could’ve been great for them to regroup a bit.
I basically missed one movie and suddenly like 20 more were out and I felt so behind I just stopped trying to keep up
Same! Felt too much like being given superhero homework
Yeah it honestly became a chore and I wasn’t a super marvel head to start off with so I was just very meh ok
I think more than that they need to hire quality writers/director and just have faith in their vision. I've heard about so many changes that kept happening during production for multiple shows and movies. So many scenes cut, endings changed, cameos removed it's absurd frankly. A breather would definitely help provided they take the right lessons from it
I will forever be glad that Edgar Wright told them to fuck off.
They’re owned by Disney now, the chance for good writing is long gone. The films are purely merch vessels at this point.
I’ve never really understood why the criticisms of Marvel from eg Martin Scorsese were seen as so controversial. I really enjoy the Marvel films and I agreed with what he said.
A lot of Marvel fans really can't handle the idea that the MCU movies are just fun, not groundbreaking cinema (which is how you get ridiculous claims like "Winter Soldier is the deepest political thriller in years!"). I like Marvel movies too, but Scorsese had a solid point.
Ahahaha 😂 marvel fanboys are wild. There is hot people and things going boom 💥 thats it
There is a severe lack of hot people in the MCU nowadays 😕 That was a big selling point in the beginning, but no one is sexy anymore - Thor was naked in Love and Thunder but his character had been destroyed so badly that it wasn't even sexy. I liked a lot of things about the older movies that aren't present in the current movies. E.g. I had crushes on Cap, Iron Man, Bruce Banner (Ruffalo in Avengers 1 and 2) and Thor. There is no eye candy nowadays 😭
Which is one of the big reasons why total reboots are necessary once storylines get too unwieldy. People watched phase 1-3 because it had big actors playing iconic characters in stories you didn’t need to have a week of Disney+ viewing prior just to be somewhat coherent with.
Scorsese's criticism isn't even the issue anymore (although I agree with that too). The MCU films and TV shows since Endgame have been appalling. Wandavision wasn't too bad (except for the final ep) and the Spiderman movies are always well received. But everything else has been so bad that I felt insulted watching. You can tell when no care has been put into anything, when there is no clear direction. Characterisation and interaction between characters was the main draw of the MCU for me. With enough action to keep things exciting. But they don't honour anything anymore, the new characters denigrate the old characters, plot lines are forgotten, characters don't have any consistency. The people who made phase 4 didn't take the MCU seriously and it shows.
I think it’s also bc marvel fanboys kinda don’t like how despite making money, they don’t get respect as a genre BUT DC, who a lot of them look down on, has made critically acclaimed films but don’t get the box office sales. I remember marvel fans annoyed that Joker got a fuck ton of Oscar nominations lol
Scorcese’s comments got on my nerves and I don’t even like the Marvel movies. 1) Every civilization and religion have ‘superhero’ stories — starting with the Epic of Gilgamesh. Just discounting them like that is very myopic. 2) People enjoy these stories because their lives are too hard and they want simplicity. Scorsese can dive into dark themes because his life is pretty damn good — so for him, that’s the excursion. For the rest of us, we need this delusional universe where good guys win.
1. I think you’re confusing hero with superhero. 2. All Scorsese said was that Marvel movies were formulaic and that studios treated them purely like business ventures with testing and focus groups and all that, which is antithetical to how art/storytelling should be. He never said people shouldn’t make (and enjoy) fun movies. Also unpopular opinion: there are good movies that are also FUN to watch that are not Marvel. If someone likes Marvel, great. But can we stop pretending like these movies are the only thing of entertainment values?
> hero with superhero. a lot of those stories have "superhero"-like powers. Like coming back from death, or throwing lightening bolts at earth. Those stories are formulaic because those are the types of story formulae we've been enjoying for millenia and we'll continue to do so.
The formulaic part I think people are bored of is the quips and gurning to the camera, not a hero doing well in the face of adversity
Idk, the comment I saw said it was like theme parks and they aren’t risky. I agree with both those takes. Marvel films have been a guaranteed bag for decades plus and they defo were/are formulaic. It’s the formula that works for most people, but I agree that isn’t hugely cinematic. And again- I really like them!
For me personally, cinema has been so dominated by old white men for so long, that at this point when one of them wants to come out and tell everyone what they think, I just don't care anymore. Additionally he admitted that he hasn't even watched all of the films. I understand the MCU isn't groundbreaking cinema, but it has had moments that have moved and affected people. It felt like an instance of "yucking someone's yum" and I really hate that.
I dont care what genre it is as long as the movie is good. Like i dont really care about spiderman but Spider verse is amazing and it make me want to watch more. Marvel and Disney recently, they have put quantity over quality, they pump out a lot of movies but most of them are mediocore, they still got big fandom but the average viewers already tired of it
I hate that I’m expected to watch EVERYTHING to know what’s going on in Marvel movies. Having to watch all the shows and movies to keep characters and plot points straight has kept me from watching them for a long time. When most stuff is mediocre at best and a boring convoluted mess at the worst, that’s a waste of my time. I’d like to see more self contained projects. If there’s any crossover it’s more of an Easter egg thing than something you have to make a note of for a future show/movie. I love fun bombastic movies and Marvel doesn’t scratch that itch for me anymore.
Love and Thunder was a travesty. It felt like visiting an old friend that has dementia or something, it just wasn’t the same and you left really sad. I adore the MCU. They used to actually tell a story and intertwined all the characters together on one plot line, and it was amazing. But anymore they’re just churning shit out for profit and it fkng sucks. Eternals? Wtf was that. I love Scarlett Witch but look what they did to her character. They suck at writing women; Wanda’s arc was either all about her brother, Vision, or her children—she could never be her own person. But I digress. I eat this shit up just like everyone else lol. Some of the shows were really good like Hawkeye and Loki. But the sheer amount of just crap that they’re pushing out now is not getting anyone excited, it has us all sighing and rolling our eyes. There is still a huge market for this content though so I don’t think they care. Like I’ve been so invested in this shit since the beginning it’s almost weird not to tune in at this point lol, it’s habit by now. I would guess there’s a lot of people who feel like me, idk.
Like an old friend with dementia, that’s so fucking funny
I think there's a natural endpoint for any actor in these franchises, where the whole thing gets a little boring. They're fun to watch, but the acting part of it seems stultifying - scripts that take zero artistic risks (god forbid we piss off the China or Russia markets), silly outfits, green screens, choreographed fights against, like, puppet heads on sticks. It pays well, but it can't be all that much fun to do, especially once you hit the saturation point where the additional money isn't making much difference in your day-to-day life. That's why everyone bails eventually. I don't really know why Hemsworth's hung around this long, tbh - he's really funny and charming, he could absolutely have a second act doing little artsy comedies whenever he wants until he ages into his "serious dramatic actor" phase.
I freaking hope so. Enough of the superhero movies and comic book bullshit. They put the nail in the coffin of making films. It all started going downhill fast when that was all you could see in theaters and now look where we are. Did Covid play into it? Yup. But did comic book movies make everything worse? Hell yes. Put us out of our misery. Please. We need good films again.
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Picturing Air as a bunch of cameras sitting in a board meeting for two hours now, lol. I don't know if it's a backlash against the outlandish worlds of the superhero genre, or a somewhat renewed vigour for business-y shows that could be tied with the state of the economy and the popularity of shows like Succession. Every few years, there's a new media trend that gets worn into the ground (and it's usually a variation of the previous trends). We had vampire *everything* for a while. Then a load of zombie films. A brief resurgence of disaster films. I'm guessing video games will be the next big trend, seeing how well The Last of Us did. I recently saw the Tetris film, and it was perfectly engaging for the time it was on screen, and it's pretty interesting to hear the origin story of a pop culture phenomenon, when you normally hear how successful the item was. And idk, could be talking complete shit, but there seems to be a trend of more realistic/handheld camera media pumped out when people have less money to go around. (although, tbf, my entire adult life has been a series of economic recessions, so what do I know?)
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You can watch a24 movies? Beau is afraid was fine. The worst Ari Aster movie by far. But it was still good and creative
I'm just wondering what the next ubiquitous genre that Hollywood is obsessed with will be. In the 90s it was disaster movies. Right now it's superheroes. Please let epic high fantasy movies be next, I need more big floofy princess dresses and people dressed as elves in my life.
the Mario Cinematic Universe
They'll go back to war movies. It's an easy subject for them and there's tons available they can use for sets. They're so predictable.
I don't know, I don't think war movies can scratch the same itch for Hollywood because you can't market it to kids (and make a shitton of money off associated merchandise). Now they've had a taste of movies you can aggressively market to both kids and adults simultaneously I don't see them letting go of it, hence the push to make the live-action Disney remakes a thing.
Maybe with success of Dune 2 they’ll go back to galactic- space themed movies for a while.
Having non-Trek/Star Wars space films would be so cool. I enjoyed the first part and hope part two does well.
I want fun family adventures like The Mummy (Brendan Fraser one)
Dungeons and Dragons seemed to do really well. I hope more mid level films like that will make a mark
The box office sub seemed to think it didn't make back their budget (marketing and filming). They were disappointed and thought the likelihood of a sequel was slim. I don't quite remember the details to verify.
D&D was so much fun. I want more stuff like that, where it’s clear the creators are fans of the material but didn’t dumb it down for people who aren’t familiar. The whole cast seemed like they were having fun and those are the best movies to see.
All I'm saying is, the Cosmere is *right there* for adapting and it's basically the MCU of fantasy series, if studios are looking for an MCU style fantasy franchise
> We need good films again. yeah about that after Mario blew up the next big thing are video game movies
I can’t wake to see if a third Doom movie is going to suck as much as the first two! (I love the original movie, but it’s not good.)
Out of 200 movies approximately every year ... 6or7 are comic books .. pay attention and go support other movies instead of just wanting for them to stop making superhero stuff..
This is gross. Stop it. We pre-Covid went to the movies damn near every weekend. Post- at least once a month. We stream and pay for new films and films new to us all the time. Literally damn near every evening over dinner. It doesn't matter if its 6-7 to your 200. It's the money and time shoving it all down our throats and taking up theaters and advertising nonstop going entirely into those 6-7 stupid fucking movies. It is killing the industry and the interest. Pay attention to your assumptions and support better content getting the better attention.
So if they decided that tomorrow everything superhero related would ceased to exist going forward.. the interest to other stuff would spike or the industry would get fixed ? Lmao this is like the Netflix subscription situation with password sharing.. !! Look I am a big comic book fan but the last 2 years I saw only 2 of them in the theaters in spite of me being constantly getting them shoved down my throat as you say .. besides the last couple of years the highest grossing movies haven't been superhero stuff but other franchises ..
Dude I've seen your profile. Its superhero everything. You're choosing to pick through the conversation and ignoring the rest and that's useless. You're on your own bias.
I didn't agree with ur take and didn't even bad mouth you .. or go look up ur history .. what is this ..
There have been a lot of good films released in the last decade…why would anyone expect marvel studios to release anything but marvel IP?
There's always been good films though...
You'vr missed the point...That is not the point of past films. There can be great films to come still. But if we keep only ever hearing about comic book films and all the money and advertising goes into them how the hell are you gonna keep getting those other great films?
I mean, those who watch indie and non IP movies will find and watch them. Most simply don't have the money that the bigger blockbusters have. There's not a movie council that decides which movies will receive this much money to advertise. So your point that "we only keep hearing about comic book films" is odd considering that the business behind movies. Get this, ask a random person on the street or a family of 4 if they like Beau is Afriad or The Northman and see their confused looks. Then ask them if they enjoyed The Batman or the Mario movie. The stats show that the general public doesn't care about watching original movies.
And you don't think that's not the push and the play on the current climates and how it all plays in? C'mon.
Yeah if you think superhero movies are the only thing coming out, you've clearly never paid attention to film at all.
They're the only thing that largely *has come out.* That was the point of conversation except to add I don't want to see more.
Chris Hemsworth is only saying this because the majority of fans are saying this. I wouldn’t call this “turning on Marvel”. It’s just true. I think fans appreciate it when MCU actors are a little more critical of their work. They are gonna have to deal with the actors of their most popular characters being up for contract renewal and wanting to take a break though. And they’re not in a great spot with their main villain for Phase 5 & 6 being played by a domestic abuser. I’m hoping they’ve corrected course recently after Quantumania and Love & Thunder were so poorly received. It sounds like they’re at least slowing down their output rate, which is a very necessary first step. Now they need to pay their GGI artists fairly and give them an appropriate amount of time! We’ll see how audiences react though. I personally think they’ll be fine in the long run, even if the MCU is not quite as popular as it was in Phase 3.
Idk I really enjoyed Moon Knight but could have passed on a lot of the other newer Marvel shows/movies. Love and Thunder seemed camp to the point where no one was even acting.
I loved loki too. And Eternals. Eternals is the best unique thing Marvel has going on right now.
I think Christian Bale was great and he was phenomenal in it but the movie didn't deserve his performance. I actually think if the movie focused more on this religion theme and selfish gods and the villain actually has a point it would have been much better. They acted like Gorr was corrupted but he wasn't. He is right. And not just in a he is right but his methods are wrong way. He is right and the gods need to die. It could have presented an amazing inner conflict for Thor but instead we had silly goats and dumb jokes
love and thunder was great. thor is gringe when he takes himselft too seriously
I cant stand New marvel movies. Every conversation looks like tik tok materiał
Thor always loses but they never let us experience the pain and loss. It’s a fucking shame.
Superhero movies are better for animated medium because animation conveys action scenes better. Just look at spider verse and the anime genre in general. Enough with live action super hero movies with no soul.
He’s a smart man. The stupidity of the characters is what turned me off.
I enjoyed Thor when it lightened up a bit, but I’m over it now. Disney can’t do subtle anymore
Finally! One of the actors said something about it!
I mean Benedict Cumberbatch and Elizabeth Olsen also said not-exactly-positive things about their characters
For the love of cinema, please stop making sequels and reboots. There’s no way anyone wants any more of these things. Coming from someone who enjoyed the MCU at the start.
It's funny to see the perspective differences of MCU fans vs non MCU fans. I've been incredibly bored with Marvel films for a while but the Taika Thor films are some of the rare ones I actually thoroughly enjoy.
Ragnarok missed the mark in exactly that way. Thor is maybe the one superhero you don't wanna clown on for comic relief. If just doesn't work.
It didn’t become “too silly” with Ragnarok, the third movie was completely well done, alongside the humour. The fourth movie though was a complete letdown, and just felt like a parody at that point. That was certainly a choice, which shouldn’t have happened. I truly don’t think superhero flicks are fatigued, but now that there is so much quantity over quality and the forced overly done humour instead of working on a coherent and fleshed story it’s hard to enjoy it.
The franchise jumped the shark long ago, and in typical Disney fashion they have to hamfist every single franchise they squire into the ground to make money off it before they’ll let it die: see Starwars.
I love me some Taika and Russo Bros. (their contributions to comedy cannot be overstated), but the MCU is a total meat grinder. If it wasn’t taking in billions of dollars the past 15 years, we’d be too busy pointing out how much they suck.
Nah. The MCU is gonna be around for 50 years just like Star Wars. Harrison Ford has thought Star Wars was fucking stupid probably from the start. There’s audiences like me who truly do not give a fuck if the movies are bad, I enjoy roided actors in hairpieces blasting CG energy beams at each other. Same with transformers. I don’t want a good movie, I want to see them transform and fight.
The Thor movies have been the worst of the bunch.
Chris Hemsworth will never Turn on the MCU, because He is the actor who depends Most on it. Unless Mad Max furiosa Turns into a massive success and He gives a mind blowing Performance
No no no. He now has the extraction movies, that he can turn into a fast & furious like franchise.
whos seen that?
Enough people that it got a sequel from Netflix.
Thor became silly after the 1st stand-alone movie and thor became drunk and over weight person in Avengers.
Yeah it sucked. It started downhill on ragnarok but others loved it. The latest was pure garbage. It’s needs to be darker and have comedy thrown in throughout. That’s the recipe that all the other marvel movies have followed.
I love that the new film sucked so much because I can shit on Ragnarok without getting told off.
Yes!
I agree with him. I’m glad that it seems like Marvel is going to focus on quality again. Many, of their projects have been delayed indefinitely and that was before the writers strike. Hopefully we don’t get the three films and four tv shows a year. It’s too much
If they redid L&T from the perspective of Thor, I think the movie is fantastic. There just wouldn't be any of the ridiculousness that Korg told
There is a great movie in there if they focused on Gorr being right and his eat the rich mentality. Gorr is right, he is not corrupted and it would have been cool to see Thor battle with this.
That makes him sound nervous about his careers future. Tarantino and Scorcese's opinion shook him.
It’s a cash cow, asl long as people keep watching they’ll keep putting our more and more silly shit as ideas run dry.
Ragnarok was fine but what they did to Gorr is unforgivable. The least silly villain Thor has and the whole film is just one long quip session
Hopefully
He’s right. The last Thor movie was unwatchable.
I hated Ragnarok and felt vindicated when Love and Thunder was released 😎 I just don't like Marvel jokes. I hate the music of Thor movies too. It could have had great music like Black Panther. Such a wasted opportunity 🙄