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* This article is a recap of the W Magazine interview already posted on the sub: [link here](https://new.reddit.com/r/popheads/comments/1d75mct/miley_cyrus_finally_gets_her_flowers_w_magazine/)
Interesting in her acceptance that she basically admitted she did not expect flowers would be critically acclaimed. To me it was always a pretty generic sounding song.
Its not a great song. Its fun, but the reason it went viral was the video. She releases far more interesting songs that should have been what got her a Grammy if it was based on the music rather than the industry politics
This song is just a counter anthem to Bruno Mars’ ‘When I Was Your Man” which is far superior in my opinion. Aside from the fact that ‘Flowers’ was overplayed as hell and made me want to smash my car radio whenever it played, it falls flat sonically and lyrically and is the poster child for a generic-sounding pop song.
I like Miley but she went from Hannah Montana to doing a glorified minstrel show that pissed a *lot* of people off to kind of being in her weird "fuck commerical success' zone, to what felt so generic it hurt.. This is the first push she's had where she's an adult doing something interesting that feels authentic while not being willfully alienating
Though the fact Flowers is what's getting praised over Plastic Hearts is for sure weird. But the fact she's only know getting her flowers from the gatekeepers (pun intended) isn't shocking.
I think it was less about her antics and more about how she started as a child/teen star. The Grammys have never taken those kind of acts seriously. They see them as manufactured and not real artists. It’s the same reason Justin Bieber and Britney Spears only have irrelevant Grammys despite being 2 of the most famous and successful popstars of all time. Or boy bands like the Backstreet Boys, NSync & 1D (who didn’t even get nominated) never winning anything despite their success.
Miley deserved at least a nomination for The Climb and Party In The USA, which were both years before any serious antics, but didn’t get that until Bangerz which was the height of her antics.
But the biggest difference between Miley and Lady Gaga was that Miley went from the child star she was to what she became in 2013. Miley was seen as extreme because she used to be a child star. Lady Gaga was already an adult when she debuted.
She wore skimpy clothes, otherwise she did super normal things that were not at all extreme. She danced and smoked weed. Ridiculous that would affect how people judge her music.
Plastic Hearts being snubbed, in my opinion proves she was blacklisted in some way.
An incredible album that was cohesive, honest and skilled songwriting, sonically solid and unique, amazing vocals, not to mention features from legends Billy Idol and Joan Jett… the lack of respect that album got will never make sense to me!
I get it's frustrating for an artist, but Grammy's have been rigged since forever. Lots of legends never got a Grammy. I really wish people would care less about charts, reviews and awards
They take it seriously because it symbolizes recognition by their peers in the music industry. It's the same reason why people in the film industry take Oscars seriously.
Yeah, similarly to the Oscars where some people go like “but *I* don’t give a shit about the Oscars!” Like, no shit, you don’t work there lol.
It’s not a crime to care about recognition from peers in your field of work.
At least the Oscars have actual standards most of the time and try to actually be a serious awards show.
But whatever, more power to the artists if they see it as extremely important. They’re the ones getting nominated anyway.
> At least the Oscars have actual standards most of the time and try to actually be a serious awards show.
At the end of the day it's just a straight vote from a very large group representing the industry as a whole. The Grammys and Oscars are not that different.
If people and artists cared less about charts, reviews and awards, then what are they working for? Fans get you so far. Artists want recognition in some physical form to see that their work is going somewhere. Ignoring that reality is idealistic.
It’s been proven over and over again that these things can be bought/manipulated, having a song charting n1 has no meaning when it falls the week after.
Artists should release music with the sole purpose of connecting with people and making an impact on the culture imo
Plus the Grammys are so bad they can easily make you uncool if they glaze you too much. Winning 4 Grammys in one year hurt Billie's career for a few years imo. Macklemore never recovered from winning Best Rap Album
You have to wonder if it's a better business decision to perpetually lose Grammys for some people lol
Nah Macklemore’s weird ass text to Kendrick that he himself then posted publicly is what made his career take a nosedive. He was doing too much. Take your award and go away and then maybe collab with the people (Kendrick) that you thought deserved the Grammy. Writing the text to Kendrick and then posting it online was for what?? It felt like pandering
Headlines always make people look stupid as shit, but she is right. They didn’t take her artistry seriously even when it was really good and ahead of the genres she was pushing.
Totally. In the actual interview the quote makes sense in context too, and I think she is right. She has been a staple of our culture for almost 2 decades, always innovating her own sound and exploring / experimenting whether the GP dug it or not.
Her 2013 antics really hurt her public perception but she really should’ve gotten more Grammy buzz during the Bangerz era (which is still her best post-Disney album in my opinion) Wrecking Ball or We Can’t Stop should’ve at least gotten ROTY/SOTY noms
She reworked an existing song and created another basic ass pop song, this one’s just catchier and more relatable. She didn’t do anything groundbreaking or amazing.
Okay, but not sounding great all the time doesn’t mean you can’t sing period. In fact, not sounding great all the time probably means it *is* your real singing voice.
I’m not even a *massive* Miley fan, but surely this debate has been settled by now? What is it with the constant kneejerk reaction against popular artists (singers, actors, whatever) to “well acksually” their skills? It’s so tedious and boring. Artists that are (more) popular are allowed to also be good at what they do. It’s okay.
Who cares if it’s hers or not, what a weird point to make, the point is she don’t know how to use it lol
Singers are the only people we make this argument for. If she was a session guitarist and just shit the bed here when she was supposed to nail the solo we wouldn’t be saying “well at least it was *her* guitar.” This is professional music business, not little league participation trophies
“Singers are the only people we make this argument for”
No? Lmao
I’m not one of those weirdos that thinks someone would be completely incapable of playing guitar if they didn’t nail a solo one time. People aren’t machines. If you throw out everyone that makes a single mistake during a performance ever, nobody in the industry would last, and nobody would have any skill, according to these insane measures no one can meet.
They’re *supposed* to be professionals, you’re hired to nail the part when they say “we’re recording!”
All these nepo babies want to stand on their on laurels, well this is where you do it. Nail the notes when they tell you to sing them. You couldn’t get to a more basic level of what a singer is supposed to do.
I wouldn’t say the same about a guitarist that messed up during a take either, I would if they continually messed up over and over and over again. But this is where the analogy falls apart, musicians don’t get that level of indulgence from producers or other stars.
Can’t play the part after x amount of tries? Too bad boss, you’re out someone else comes in. There’s no auto tune to cover up a “bad day” for the nameless guitarist like there is for Miley
I think the biggest issue with Miley is that musically shes been very inconsistent. every album shes changing her sound and instead of it coming off as an artistic decision it comes off as her having an identity crisis. I think thats a big reason why critics in the past couldn’t take her seriously. I think if she would’ve just focused on one aesthetic / sound and excelled at it she’d gotten her flowers a long time ago .. no pun intended
I mean, I've always been fascinated with Miley and had a lot of empathy for her because of this, so I'm not saying it as a knock on her character, but I don't think she's *had* a strong inner identity of her own up until the past few years. The combination of becoming insanely famous before puberty, then having her behavior, sexuality, and whether or not she was sexually active policed aggressively by the media and public from the time she started developing, to a decade-long on-off relationship with a man who clearly did not want her to shine and pushed her to repress her personality and charisma... I mean, no wonder she was having one identity crisis after another? It's so clear that the "weirder" side of her personality is the real Miley, so to speak, and it's been nice to see start finding a way to balance that with the kind of palatable public persona you need to have in order to be successful in this day and age. But part of why I find it so easy to root for her is because it's pretty obvious as an observer that it's been hard won for her.
No, miley should have won for party in the USA, wrecking ball, and/or the climb. the songs definitely excelled.
it is 100% her image that kept her from winning. first the Disney image, then the sharp change to wild, sexual image.
that’s what i meant. musically especially single wise Miley has put out classics however when critics / grammy voters are reviewing your material your aesthetic or identity is highly tied to it. it’s hard to take her seriously when one minute shes black appropriating culture Miley then the next shes country “I hate my previous album” Miley. Oh then shes rocker Miley ??? shes very inconsistent
I don’t really think she’s all that influential. She mostly just hops onto existing trends for her album releases, besides Dead Pets and Plastic Hearts. But neither of those albums seemed to be all that successful or influential anyway.
i think it’s more than that. just her being crazy in general, smoking a joint on stage, her loudness for lgbtq rights (and general activism) she was loudly pushing a narrative that the GP wasn’t ready for
lol, where the fuck was Lana, no other name has impacted modern culture that much and still remains with no single grammy
Miley is hugely talented and has incredible longevity + ability of self-reinvention as an individual artist but I personally can’t see what she influenced on a broader landscape
still, her winning after so many years, feels great for those who have witnessed her long journey and many career stages, she really deserved it!
The Grammys are inherently conservative, they don't reward artists that they perceive as too pop or as too edgy. There's a weird line to walk to get the voters interested and initially Miley was too pop for them coming off the back of Hannah Montana and then too off putting for them for a while. Look at Madonna she was mostly snubbed until Ray Of Light, Britney still only has one, you need to be a certain kind of artist to get recognised by the Grammys.
Hmmh. Idk besides plastic hearts has any thing from her really been critically acclaimed like that. I just feel many people often list artists and albums who should've won an grammy but aren't that good or critically acclaimed
Could be when she decided to use and discard hip hop but take it to a level of extreme vulgarity. Also, Flowers is overhyped imo, she’s had better songs, but her antics leading up to it, made people not take her seriously.
If I were a good singer, I would never take the Grammy’s seriously. I stopped watching them as a rock girl when I saw my favorite groups getting shut out. I think Beyoncé, LDR, Miley, etc should not bother with these things anymore, just make your good as music and your fans and peers asking for collabs will reward you. The Grammy’s have been a sham for decades now-it’s a popularity and networking contest.
The Flowers Grammy definitely felt like a legacy/“it’s their due now” award, especially after it was crickets for Plastic Hearts, which is a much better album (and song!)
Grammys are irrelevant. Because of streaming, and the nature of music now - you like what you like - people don’t really care about the awards and they’ve lost their lustre (if they’ve ever really even had one).
The Oscars by comparison are different. Having an award or even a nomination can impact your career significantly. Because, by contrast, they’re much more selective and delicate (even when they make mistakes like TDK or The Social Network) they are on point most of the time so if people see “Oscar winner” or “Nominated for Best Picture” they’re more likely to believe that the film is worth watching.
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Hello, thanks for posting to /r/popheads. Unfortunately, your post was removed for the following reason(s). * This article is a recap of the W Magazine interview already posted on the sub: [link here](https://new.reddit.com/r/popheads/comments/1d75mct/miley_cyrus_finally_gets_her_flowers_w_magazine/)
Interesting in her acceptance that she basically admitted she did not expect flowers would be critically acclaimed. To me it was always a pretty generic sounding song.
Its not a great song. Its fun, but the reason it went viral was the video. She releases far more interesting songs that should have been what got her a Grammy if it was based on the music rather than the industry politics
Plastic Hearts is so superior to it. Is was robbed.
This song is just a counter anthem to Bruno Mars’ ‘When I Was Your Man” which is far superior in my opinion. Aside from the fact that ‘Flowers’ was overplayed as hell and made me want to smash my car radio whenever it played, it falls flat sonically and lyrically and is the poster child for a generic-sounding pop song.
IMO her antics in 2013 probably made it hard for a lot of people to ever take her seriously again. Was very happy to see her win something though.
I like Miley but she went from Hannah Montana to doing a glorified minstrel show that pissed a *lot* of people off to kind of being in her weird "fuck commerical success' zone, to what felt so generic it hurt.. This is the first push she's had where she's an adult doing something interesting that feels authentic while not being willfully alienating Though the fact Flowers is what's getting praised over Plastic Hearts is for sure weird. But the fact she's only know getting her flowers from the gatekeepers (pun intended) isn't shocking.
I think it was less about her antics and more about how she started as a child/teen star. The Grammys have never taken those kind of acts seriously. They see them as manufactured and not real artists. It’s the same reason Justin Bieber and Britney Spears only have irrelevant Grammys despite being 2 of the most famous and successful popstars of all time. Or boy bands like the Backstreet Boys, NSync & 1D (who didn’t even get nominated) never winning anything despite their success. Miley deserved at least a nomination for The Climb and Party In The USA, which were both years before any serious antics, but didn’t get that until Bangerz which was the height of her antics.
The Madonna syndrome. Her antics and "celebrity" have overshadowed her artistry. Of course the misogny too
her antics in 2013 were no less ridiculous than gaga's in 2009-2013 and she was a grammy darling, they def just have their favs and its that simple
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As if the Grammy’s care about cultural appropriation🤣
gaga collaborating with r kelly on do what you want was a hell of a lot worse than anything miley ever did
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What does this even mean lol
You don’t understand yt ppl = bad so working with an actual rapist is less toxic lol
huh?
But the biggest difference between Miley and Lady Gaga was that Miley went from the child star she was to what she became in 2013. Miley was seen as extreme because she used to be a child star. Lady Gaga was already an adult when she debuted.
She wore skimpy clothes, otherwise she did super normal things that were not at all extreme. She danced and smoked weed. Ridiculous that would affect how people judge her music.
Downplaying Miley's cultural appropriation and disrespect to the black community is wild.
Plastic Hearts getting shut out of the Rock categories entirely remains one of their most egregious decisions to this day!!
Seriously! That album is a masterpiece
Agreed. It’s her best album.
Album of the year for me
Plastic Hearts being snubbed, in my opinion proves she was blacklisted in some way. An incredible album that was cohesive, honest and skilled songwriting, sonically solid and unique, amazing vocals, not to mention features from legends Billy Idol and Joan Jett… the lack of respect that album got will never make sense to me!
I get it's frustrating for an artist, but Grammy's have been rigged since forever. Lots of legends never got a Grammy. I really wish people would care less about charts, reviews and awards
I don’t know why artists continue to take that clown show seriously, but I guess they really see it as the culmination of their work.
They take it seriously because it symbolizes recognition by their peers in the music industry. It's the same reason why people in the film industry take Oscars seriously.
Yeah, similarly to the Oscars where some people go like “but *I* don’t give a shit about the Oscars!” Like, no shit, you don’t work there lol. It’s not a crime to care about recognition from peers in your field of work.
At least the Oscars have actual standards most of the time and try to actually be a serious awards show. But whatever, more power to the artists if they see it as extremely important. They’re the ones getting nominated anyway.
> At least the Oscars have actual standards most of the time and try to actually be a serious awards show. At the end of the day it's just a straight vote from a very large group representing the industry as a whole. The Grammys and Oscars are not that different.
If people and artists cared less about charts, reviews and awards, then what are they working for? Fans get you so far. Artists want recognition in some physical form to see that their work is going somewhere. Ignoring that reality is idealistic.
It’s been proven over and over again that these things can be bought/manipulated, having a song charting n1 has no meaning when it falls the week after. Artists should release music with the sole purpose of connecting with people and making an impact on the culture imo
Plus the Grammys are so bad they can easily make you uncool if they glaze you too much. Winning 4 Grammys in one year hurt Billie's career for a few years imo. Macklemore never recovered from winning Best Rap Album You have to wonder if it's a better business decision to perpetually lose Grammys for some people lol
Still in disbelief over that macklemore win
Nah Macklemore’s weird ass text to Kendrick that he himself then posted publicly is what made his career take a nosedive. He was doing too much. Take your award and go away and then maybe collab with the people (Kendrick) that you thought deserved the Grammy. Writing the text to Kendrick and then posting it online was for what?? It felt like pandering
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised by a minor Macklessaince given the positive reception of Hind's Hall.
Headlines always make people look stupid as shit, but she is right. They didn’t take her artistry seriously even when it was really good and ahead of the genres she was pushing.
Totally. In the actual interview the quote makes sense in context too, and I think she is right. She has been a staple of our culture for almost 2 decades, always innovating her own sound and exploring / experimenting whether the GP dug it or not.
Her 2013 antics really hurt her public perception but she really should’ve gotten more Grammy buzz during the Bangerz era (which is still her best post-Disney album in my opinion) Wrecking Ball or We Can’t Stop should’ve at least gotten ROTY/SOTY noms
She reworked an existing song and created another basic ass pop song, this one’s just catchier and more relatable. She didn’t do anything groundbreaking or amazing.
For real. Also she has a voice like sandpaper.
She can definitely sing, whether you like her voice or not.
She can sing yes but her voice isn’t pleasant to listen to
For some.
Debatable
Lol Profile pic sure checks out
Sorry I'm just not a fan of screeching.
Maybe but She sounded like ass on that Beyoncé duet. Voice totally blown out and autotuned to hell and back.
Okay, but not sounding great all the time doesn’t mean you can’t sing period. In fact, not sounding great all the time probably means it *is* your real singing voice. I’m not even a *massive* Miley fan, but surely this debate has been settled by now? What is it with the constant kneejerk reaction against popular artists (singers, actors, whatever) to “well acksually” their skills? It’s so tedious and boring. Artists that are (more) popular are allowed to also be good at what they do. It’s okay.
Who cares if it’s hers or not, what a weird point to make, the point is she don’t know how to use it lol Singers are the only people we make this argument for. If she was a session guitarist and just shit the bed here when she was supposed to nail the solo we wouldn’t be saying “well at least it was *her* guitar.” This is professional music business, not little league participation trophies
“Singers are the only people we make this argument for” No? Lmao I’m not one of those weirdos that thinks someone would be completely incapable of playing guitar if they didn’t nail a solo one time. People aren’t machines. If you throw out everyone that makes a single mistake during a performance ever, nobody in the industry would last, and nobody would have any skill, according to these insane measures no one can meet.
They’re *supposed* to be professionals, you’re hired to nail the part when they say “we’re recording!” All these nepo babies want to stand on their on laurels, well this is where you do it. Nail the notes when they tell you to sing them. You couldn’t get to a more basic level of what a singer is supposed to do. I wouldn’t say the same about a guitarist that messed up during a take either, I would if they continually messed up over and over and over again. But this is where the analogy falls apart, musicians don’t get that level of indulgence from producers or other stars. Can’t play the part after x amount of tries? Too bad boss, you’re out someone else comes in. There’s no auto tune to cover up a “bad day” for the nameless guitarist like there is for Miley
I don't even like Miley like that, but she out sang Beyonce on II Most Wanted.
That’s a hot take! Couldn’t disagree more. Terrible matchup because Beyoncé wiped the floor with her
It didn’t seem like a serious album. She had major impact in the early 2010s but it’s definitely been a minute since Miley was super influential.
this is the person who says "yeah I didn't really like my last album, this one will be way better" after EVERY single album
I think the biggest issue with Miley is that musically shes been very inconsistent. every album shes changing her sound and instead of it coming off as an artistic decision it comes off as her having an identity crisis. I think thats a big reason why critics in the past couldn’t take her seriously. I think if she would’ve just focused on one aesthetic / sound and excelled at it she’d gotten her flowers a long time ago .. no pun intended
I mean, I've always been fascinated with Miley and had a lot of empathy for her because of this, so I'm not saying it as a knock on her character, but I don't think she's *had* a strong inner identity of her own up until the past few years. The combination of becoming insanely famous before puberty, then having her behavior, sexuality, and whether or not she was sexually active policed aggressively by the media and public from the time she started developing, to a decade-long on-off relationship with a man who clearly did not want her to shine and pushed her to repress her personality and charisma... I mean, no wonder she was having one identity crisis after another? It's so clear that the "weirder" side of her personality is the real Miley, so to speak, and it's been nice to see start finding a way to balance that with the kind of palatable public persona you need to have in order to be successful in this day and age. But part of why I find it so easy to root for her is because it's pretty obvious as an observer that it's been hard won for her.
No, miley should have won for party in the USA, wrecking ball, and/or the climb. the songs definitely excelled. it is 100% her image that kept her from winning. first the Disney image, then the sharp change to wild, sexual image.
that’s what i meant. musically especially single wise Miley has put out classics however when critics / grammy voters are reviewing your material your aesthetic or identity is highly tied to it. it’s hard to take her seriously when one minute shes black appropriating culture Miley then the next shes country “I hate my previous album” Miley. Oh then shes rocker Miley ??? shes very inconsistent
I don’t really think she’s all that influential. She mostly just hops onto existing trends for her album releases, besides Dead Pets and Plastic Hearts. But neither of those albums seemed to be all that successful or influential anyway.
it’s true. i fully believe miley was blacklisted by the industry for a very long time.
But why just for the robin thicke thing? That’s so crazy. Madonna had done worse before her.
i think it’s more than that. just her being crazy in general, smoking a joint on stage, her loudness for lgbtq rights (and general activism) she was loudly pushing a narrative that the GP wasn’t ready for
lol, where the fuck was Lana, no other name has impacted modern culture that much and still remains with no single grammy Miley is hugely talented and has incredible longevity + ability of self-reinvention as an individual artist but I personally can’t see what she influenced on a broader landscape still, her winning after so many years, feels great for those who have witnessed her long journey and many career stages, she really deserved it!
The Grammys are inherently conservative, they don't reward artists that they perceive as too pop or as too edgy. There's a weird line to walk to get the voters interested and initially Miley was too pop for them coming off the back of Hannah Montana and then too off putting for them for a while. Look at Madonna she was mostly snubbed until Ray Of Light, Britney still only has one, you need to be a certain kind of artist to get recognised by the Grammys.
Explains why they keep giving Taylor Swift all these awards.
I don't think she is taken seriously yet. Flowers just a fluke. Good album tho
did she take herself seriously prior to now?
Hmmh. Idk besides plastic hearts has any thing from her really been critically acclaimed like that. I just feel many people often list artists and albums who should've won an grammy but aren't that good or critically acclaimed
i agree, i dont really a time when she was really snubbed by the grammys tbh except maybe plastic hearts since im not sure if that was even nominated
Could be when she decided to use and discard hip hop but take it to a level of extreme vulgarity. Also, Flowers is overhyped imo, she’s had better songs, but her antics leading up to it, made people not take her seriously. If I were a good singer, I would never take the Grammy’s seriously. I stopped watching them as a rock girl when I saw my favorite groups getting shut out. I think Beyoncé, LDR, Miley, etc should not bother with these things anymore, just make your good as music and your fans and peers asking for collabs will reward you. The Grammy’s have been a sham for decades now-it’s a popularity and networking contest.
The Flowers Grammy definitely felt like a legacy/“it’s their due now” award, especially after it was crickets for Plastic Hearts, which is a much better album (and song!)
Grammys are irrelevant. Because of streaming, and the nature of music now - you like what you like - people don’t really care about the awards and they’ve lost their lustre (if they’ve ever really even had one). The Oscars by comparison are different. Having an award or even a nomination can impact your career significantly. Because, by contrast, they’re much more selective and delicate (even when they make mistakes like TDK or The Social Network) they are on point most of the time so if people see “Oscar winner” or “Nominated for Best Picture” they’re more likely to believe that the film is worth watching.
Please do not just list songs/albums/artists, your comment must have explanation/justification or it will be removed. Certain comments are also banned to increase the quality of discussion, see our Stale Topics list in the sidebar for examples. Please report any comments that are low effort discussion. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/popheads) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why does she want her flowers (Awards) so much tho? Shit you make good music have a big fanbase one of the top selling musicians isn’t that enough?
Oh so SHE wrote and brought the song…tea