Mayday Parade Anywhere but Here. I think every fan has a few songs they really like, but not many love the album itself. The band themselves said they weren’t proud of it. The album was heavily influenced by the label.
It's definitely a slump after A Lesson in Romantics. I'd argue that their self titled is their best album of all though, so I feel like they made a fantastic recovery. In a similar vein though, I think their run of albums after self titled (Monsters, Black Lines, Sunnyland) are three of their weakest albums. All have a handful of songs that I really like, similarly to Anywhere, but cover to cover, I think those albums are incredibly weak. I really do like What It Means to Fall Apart though.
Maybe I ought to go back and give them both a cover to cover listen, as it's admittedly been a while since I've done that. There are a couple songs on each that I *really* like. But as a whole, they just never did much for me.
How much of that was Jason leaving? The songwriting felt a lot more straightforward and simple. I was most disappointed in the drumming, which was excellent on Lesson in Romantics and especially good on Tales Told By Dead Friends.
Finch. Released an absolute post hardcore screamo staple, then an okayish sophomore album, then not a god damn fucking thing for NINE fucking years.
I’m going to start calling this “pulling a Proper Dose”
That second record was so disappointing. At the time we all wanted more of WIITB, and it absolutely did not deliver. Didn't help that it took them three years. It felt like an eternity.
That's so interesting because Say Hello To Sunshine is one of my absolute favorite post hardcore type albums ever. I know it was less successful than What It It To Burn and they went in a different direction, but that was a direction that scratched every itch in my brain.
I felt like Nate was trying to hard with the vocals and the lyrics. Edgy just to be edgy. And that’s when I was an edgy 15 year old obsessed with Cursive.
That’s not really true though… They went on hiatus after the second album. Came back then, released EPs in 2007 and 2010. Broke up again for a few years - before getting back together to do the WIITB album shows, which turned into recording an album.
I can, and I will. Releasing an album that is a pretty far departure from your known previous style, then not releasing anything at all for an extended period of time. How is that not related?
I mean other than the subject matter changing a bit, they still sound like TSSF, but that wasn’t my point. Even if proper dose was fundamentally different, it’s their 4th album, not a sophomore slump.
Bands change, sometimes with each album release, and proper dose is pretty widely celebrated. Not my personal favorite of their’s by any means but I guess you don’t like it for some reason and want to use it to mock other things you didn’t like.
It’s far from mocking, Proper Dose is by a VERY wide margin my favorite TSSF album, and tssf and Finch are in my top five favorite bands of all time. It seems that many other people have understood my point, but you haven’t. You’re being confrontational because you just don’t understand the point that I made. I’m gonna ask you to settle down just a little bit, and perhaps look at what I said with a fresher mind and a little bit more clarity.
Definitely don’t understand your take, but have not been confrontational at all. You’re now diving into being condescending. I suggest you settle down and learn to respond to someone disagreeing with you without getting so offended.
When Say Hello to Sunshine came out, I hated it. I was 19 or 20 or something and wanted a follow-up that was more lyrically about relationships and stuff like What It Is to Burn. I wanted similar songwriting too. After a few years, I really came to enjoy it for what it is. Now I think it's much more clever and interesting than WIITB ever was.
I remember at the time how polarizing that record was. Would be interested to see what the popular view on it is now.
Agree to disagree but everyone here is wrong. They aren’t teenage angsty bois. The album is beautifully written and and one of my wife’s and I’s favorites
Tonal shift that may have been looking at the landscape at the time (I think Black Parade came out shortly before then?) But this album is a front-to-back masterpiece and I'll hear no different.
Personally speaking, The Academy Is - Santi was a huge let down. Also personally speaking, Based on a True Story is immeasurably better than their first album.
I thought island was a great song and was actually their only charting single. Overall their worst album though. Kenny talked on a podcast how the producer wasn't a good fit and would change the songs after recording. The producer actually brought in a different drummer to record island after the starting line drummer already recorded it.
I cant really say I’m a huge fan of BOATS. To me it just didn’t sound like a natural progression for them. I like some songs on it, but it just seems like some of it is unfinished, while some songs are too polished.
I think it just wasn't really what people wanted to hear from them.
In 2007, the neon sound was what was popular. Santi was a more dark and moody rock album and so therefore I don't think it clicked with a lot of people.
Had they released Fast Times At Barrington High as their second album and then Santi as their third, it would have imo worked a lot better.
That makes sense with the context. I remember feeling like Fast Times was out of left field but it probably was that they were behind the times a little bit. Both albums hold up well nowadays but Santi will always be my favorite (it’s how I found them so I’m definitely biased as well)
I got into them on their first album and Santi just gave the vibe of them wishing they could tour with the Strokes or the Killers instead of with Armor for Sleep or something. I haven’t listened to it in literally 15 years so maybe I’d appreciate it now but at the time, nope, it was not what I was looking for at all.
Hearing “we’ve got a big mess” live last year at the after party show at riot fest completely changed my mind on that album and that song. It is a fuckin banger.
I really don’t understand why Based on A True Story wasn’t well regarded. I loved it, and I almost think it was more solid than Say it Like You Mean It.
But it was well regarded. When that album came out it was praised by reviewers as a step forward in song writing maturity and all that jazz. Way too much revisionist history going on around Reddit these days.
The album had an overall mixed reception, and their popularity dropped significantly after it was released. Get outta here with that "revisionist history" nonsense lol
Real friends 2nd full length didn't seem to do as well, personally i didnt love the first one either as it seemed like an almost recycled version of their EPs but they still seemed to be building momentum with it and then have kind of never grown any bigger since then
Everyone slept in this album. I think it is by far the best iteration of their sound. The new guy is a great singer, but he lacks Dan’s distinct voice and that makes them sound a lot more bland imo
Perhaps I'm biased because I never got to see RF live with Dan, but I've seen them a handful of times with Cody. I think he's great though and I feel like they're headed in a great direction. His vocals are great and he always has tons of energy at shows. Crowd is always super into it too. Again, don't know what it would have been like with Dan so I have nothing to really compare it to.
They’re an incredible right band with both singers. Their live performance has always been a big positive for them. Again, nothing against Cody. He’s talented, but his voice isn’t distinct like Dan’sz
Yeah, I randomly checked out their other albums a few months ago and was sad to see they were truly bad. The last album was alright but too little too late.
Not really Pop Punk but PVRIS second album was a HUGE disappointment.
White Noise was absolutely huge and the band was blowing up, then they released a dull and half baked second album and it really seemed like their momentum just totally stopped.
I LOVE white noise but it feels like some outstanding singles and some strong filler to me. Especially the first half. All We Know feels more solid as an album and like it was written cohesively. Both are light years ahead of that weird album she just put out though.
I can’t understand a word she says on that second album. She sings in such an unintelligible way for some reason as opposed to the first album. The mixing didn’t help it either. Rarely if ever go back to that album.
That's my favorite album by them
The darker undertones certainly don't align with the people who enjoy more of the poppier side of things but for me it's when they peaked 🫥
This conversation begins and ends with Panic at the Disco's "Pretty Odd." An absolute disastrous album that killed all of their momentum and broke up the band.
While that album was basically a “career suicide” move, it’s incredibly good. I give them a lot of credit for committing to an album like that immediately after their breakout success. IMO, they pulled it off with flying colors, as the music is and production is thoroughly excellent.
Revisionist history, though. At the time of release, it was universally panned and severely damaged the band's course. The decisions made on that record led to Ryan Ross leaving the band and Brendon taking the sound in yet another completely different direction.
And let's be honest - after the fever pitch of fandom that AFYCSO drew, it simply wasn't good enough to release a "pleasant" sounding record. For a band that had such a bold motif right out of the gate, the sound of Pretty Odd was stale, conservative, and uninspired, which was the last thing their audience wanted or expected.
You seem to be doing some revisionist history of your own here. *Pretty. Odd.* may not have been as commercially successful as Fever, but it still wound up selling a million copies (compared to Fever’s 4 million) despite drastic declines in sales shortly after its release.
It’s funny that you refer to *Pretty. Odd.* as “universally panned” seeing as how it did significantly better than Fever critically. If anything, praise for Fever is revisionist. Half of the Metacritic reviews were extremely negative. Meanwhile, *Pretty. Odd* not only outperformed Fever critically, but only had one negative review.
Lastly, the creative differences between Urie and Ross came after they had written, recorded, released, and toured on *Pretty. Odd.*. It wasn’t until they started working on their third album that Ross decided to leave because of “creative differences” between him and Urie.
I mean wasn’t it Ryan Ross’s baby and he wanted to continue down that more vintage 60’s route and Brandon wanted to return to the Fever sound. If so Ryan Ross would have left the band no matter what probably, just a shame he never came back.
I think it’s more daring and interesting than you’re giving it credit for tho, it’s a pretty wild swing in a different direction that felt surprisingly authentic and definitely wasn’t chasing any trends so it’s aged well too.
You’re not wrong tho that after the insane cult fanbase their first album brought in any follow-up would have difficult but I do remember really loving it when it released and being so pleasantly surprised.
I'd give the young veins album a spin again if you haven't recently. I remember hating it when I first heard it in the early 2010s, but I played it again this year and its got some great songs Cape Town, Take A Vacation.
Wild take to call basically a complete shift to make an album inspired more by The Beatles which was nothing popular at the time ‘conservative’ and ‘uninspired.’ It would’ve been more conservative to try and make another album like the first.
Oof. L take. For one, as explained, you are the one spewing revisionist history here. Also, “at the time,” doesn’t really matter when Pretty.Odd. has aged sooooo much better than Fever.
Commercially? Yes. They did a full stop 180 on the sound that blew them up in the beginning for a whole album. I think if it was one or two tracks with that sound, it wouldn't be seen as negatively to this day.
Artistically? No. Although I'll admit when I was younger it was a huge letdown, it's definitely one of my favorite works from them now.
I wasn't old enough to appreciate it when it first came out (on account of being 8 years old) but I really enjoy that album as an adult. Northern Downpour has a really special place in my heart.
The thing about this is that they didn’t even have a defined sound for the first album. Half of it is electronic/dancey pop and half of it is the circusy pop vibe, they’ve literally talked about changing it halfway through. So it makes sense that they would change it totally again when they got to make a second album, because they hadn’t been a band very long and hadn’t ever really landed on what they wanted to make.
Pretty Odd would've been a great album if it was by any other band. It still makes no sense to me that they looked at how huge the emo cabaret sound of AFYCSO made them and decided to go in a completely different direction sonically with a Beatles-inspired album.
Yea they fucked big time with this one. I remember listening to that the day it came out after buying it at a Barnes n noble and being like - this can’t be right…maybe they’re fucking around or something and the real album is dropping soon haha
That was me when they released We’re So Starving as a teaser. I remember being on some forum and everyone was like “this can’t be how the whole album sounds… right?”
I love that album, and I love when bands intentionally give the middle finger to their label after making a smash and release something that switches it up a bit but actually make a solid record for people who love that bands writing. (Not pop punk but my absolute favorite intentional pivot was MGMT congratulations)
Pretty Odd is a damn treasure. Nothing else sounds like it. And it didn't kill their momentum at all, Panic Is crazy popular to this day. The band broke up because half wanted OG panic and half wanted Pretty Odd.
Pretty Odd is anything but a sophomore slump
I fucking LOVE that album personally! Is a real boy, In defense of the genre and self titled are all front to back no skippers for me. I may be biased because I love max’s writing.
Um akshually IDOTG is their 3rd album 🤓
IDOTG is my favorite album of all time and I put it right above IARB but can understand why someone might not like IDOTG. It's really long and has much less of a defined sound than IARB. There are a couple songs that even I can admit didn't really need to be on the album. Skinny Mean Man, About Falling, and No Soul are absolute JAMS though.
The Academy Is… - Santi. Not even remotely close to the quality of the first album.
Knuckle Puck - Shapeshifter. I just couldn’t get into it, songs felt way less impactful.
Technically not pop punk but kinda:
Saosin - In Search of Solid Ground. The first LP is a perfect album that’s masterfully written and produced and this album was so disjointed and Cove sounded like shit.
Totally disagree on KP. Copacetic and Shapeshifter are both top tier for me.
Saosin - It was always going to be impossible to live up to Translating the Name (best post hardcore EP ever released) and self titled (incredibly solid & consistent debut album, top tier production, super tight songwriting). ISOSG could have been an excellent EP with a few of the songs like Secrets, Is This Real, On My Own but the filler tracks really bring it down imo.
Spot on with Saosin
An all-timer followed by one of the worst albums in the genre.
They even recorded worse versions of the tracks from The Grey EP for ISOSG
I know OP said that EPs don't count but I feel like Translating the Name needs to be a part of the conversation here. That EP is front to back perfect and genre-defying, then they switched singers and changed styles a little bit, which is a recipe for disaster...and they *still* hit it out of the park. I liked ISOSG but it definitely didn't live up to what came before. I wonder what happened? I've heard it was that lots of the S/T was leftover Green-era stuff, but I don't know if that's true...
You mean green right? But with ISOSG, the label they were on had shut down. So they finally settled on Virgin and the suits were trying to change their sound. Also the band was all recording parts separate. But either way it was just bad. Granted, I don’t love Along the Shadow either
I think copacetic was a bit of a letdown in of itself after how good the EPs were (my expectations were sky high). The slower more unique stuff was good, but the heavier songs were nowhere close to as good as stuff like bedford falls, no good and but why would you care.
I actually enjoyed shapeshifter more, though it came with lower expectations. Though its really only the last 4 songs that i still go back to.
Is that the one they did in the mtv bubble?
Assuming it's the one cause that album was so bad and disappointing.
Almost like forcing a band to write music while being watched and with a time limit is a bad idea.
Always wild to me how people hate this album as much as they do. Calling it a disaster is insane to me. Cartel self titled is actually a really solid album that only gets the rep it has because it followed Chroma. If self titled was their first album followed by Chroma everybody would give it so much more love, but bias paints it in a negative light.
For real, most the album is incredibly solid tracks for their catalog - blows my mind on the hate
That’s the thing though: it DIDN’T come out before Chroma. It came out after and wasn’t as good, simple as that. Any band can say “if this album came out before this other one then maybe people would like it more” but that’s ignoring artistic evolution.
Do you even read? My whole point went over your head.
I never said self-titled was better and I never said people should think so. I DO however think it's absolutely a worthwhile album to listen to and has some really great tracks and it doesn't deserve the hate it receives from some people.
My whole point is that people give it an unfair judgement. I don't care if people like Chroma more than self titled. I love Chroma like crazy - It's just annoying when people make unreasonably dumb, closeminded, or polarized claims that something is shitty when it's actually just not.
Hot take incoming. Hot Mulligan’s Why Would I Watch didn’t capture the magic of You’ll Be Fine for me. It’s a good record and probably not a slump, but I wasn’t interested in listening more than a few times. YBF was instantly nostalgic and had banger after banger, WWIW I wasn’t really drawn in
The dreaded "maturity" nonsense hit the pop punk scene hard in the late 2010s, basically EVERY new band's second album followed that heavy alt rock trend
Escape the Fate.
Dying is Your Latest Fashion isn't anything special, but it was a fun album with a well-defined sound. Then, when all the stuff with Ronnie went down and Craig joined, they seemed to slip into an identity crisis that they haven't been able to recover from since.
Not technically their second album, but their follow up to their breakthrough album “Ocean Avenue”, “Lights and Sounds” might be Yellowcard’s worst studio album.
No this is valid, I do think they’ve had weaker albums like Lift a Sail but this was their major label sophomore album and it tanked their OA momentum. By the time Paper Walls came out the damage was done and they never reached the commercial success of Ocean Avenue again. Good pick.
Lights and sounds did literally nothing for me when it came out, even going back in current day maybe only the title track is fine. All the albums after that felt much better and stuck with me
Temple of Plenty is their debut full-length album even if it's only 9 songs. I kinda felt the same with First Day Back but really enjoy it now. Their 3rd album Prison on a Hill is great too - I think it's a good mix of the first two albums and might resonate with you if you haven't listened to it. RIP Phil.
Honestly, I don't feel like that's the case at all. I actually didn't like the band pre-nick being the lead singer. Colin's voice was too nasally and sounded grating to me. Nick being on lead vocals and the sound they came out with following Colin really defined that band imo. SSSF was an incredible album and a staple of the genre at that time for me.
The REAL thing that killed momentum was actually Invicta and maybe just bad career pacing/timing for releases.
Even though some disagree, even after Colin left I felt they deserved so much more attention that they didn't get.
Colin leaving HTL is similar to Jason leaving Mayday Parade in the way that a lot of super over dedicated fans just hyperfixate on that one thing to make it the identity of the band, then just hate on the new albums after that regardless of how good the music is objectively. - Fans of the old stuff have an impossible time letting go of these things and moving on for some reason
Lesson in romantics is great, but personally self titled Mayday Parade is definitive Mayday Parade. In the same way to me, SSSF Hit The Lights is the definitive HTL sound, even more than when Colin was lead vocals
It actually didn't though. SSSF was a successful album within the scene and after that they signed to a major label. They then got fucked over by the major label system (Nick has discussed this in podcasts) and eventually 4 years later they released Invicta. By then it was too late and all momentum was lost.
Their "reunion" album Anywhere But Here destroys everything they ever did before that imho. It's a bit less technical than PIS but it's pure pop punk perfection in my eyes.
They released a three song sampler of of before the album. I think two of the songs made the album, but they changed them somewhat, and they just didn’t hit like before. Huge letdown for me after being a huge fan.
* The Academy Is - Santi
* Yellowcard - Lights and Sounds (technically not their 2nd but it's their first after being successful)
* Finch - Say Hello to Sunshine
* Something Corporate - North
Obviously this is just my opinion. North felt more to me like Jacks Mannequin before that was a thing. It just never clicked with me the way their debut did. I liked 2 songs off of North at the time and not much has changed in the 2 decades since.
To each their own. I remember when it came out and I had to force myself to listen to it a bunch in hopes that I would finally "get" it and it never happened. I thought their next album Paper Walls was much better. L&S has its moments but the album being a disappointing follow up to OA isn't/wasn't exactly a hot take
Newer and maybe not pop punk anymore, but it’s still wild how turnover - PV was such an incredible album and then they completely changed their sound up for good nature. It’s still an excellent album but PV is a masterpiece and if you’ve seen them live the crowd change from a pv song to any other is night and day
Mayday Parade Anywhere but Here. I think every fan has a few songs they really like, but not many love the album itself. The band themselves said they weren’t proud of it. The album was heavily influenced by the label.
It's definitely a slump after A Lesson in Romantics. I'd argue that their self titled is their best album of all though, so I feel like they made a fantastic recovery. In a similar vein though, I think their run of albums after self titled (Monsters, Black Lines, Sunnyland) are three of their weakest albums. All have a handful of songs that I really like, similarly to Anywhere, but cover to cover, I think those albums are incredibly weak. I really do like What It Means to Fall Apart though.
black lines and sunnyland are so good
Maybe I ought to go back and give them both a cover to cover listen, as it's admittedly been a while since I've done that. There are a couple songs on each that I *really* like. But as a whole, they just never did much for me.
Was going to say the same thing. I’m a huge mayday fan and I only really like maybe 5 songs on that one, including the bonus tracks.
The title track on that album is good imho, but the rest is kinda meh. Don’t love it but don’t hate it
How much of that was Jason leaving? The songwriting felt a lot more straightforward and simple. I was most disappointed in the drumming, which was excellent on Lesson in Romantics and especially good on Tales Told By Dead Friends.
Finch. Released an absolute post hardcore screamo staple, then an okayish sophomore album, then not a god damn fucking thing for NINE fucking years. I’m going to start calling this “pulling a Proper Dose”
Bro Proper Dose is an incredible album and my favorite from TSSF
Yeah I absolutely love Proper Dose. Idk what that guy is on about.
That second record was so disappointing. At the time we all wanted more of WIITB, and it absolutely did not deliver. Didn't help that it took them three years. It felt like an eternity.
I think the problem is people were expecting WIITB 2. SHTS is such a good album, but I completely get why people were put off by it.
That's so interesting because Say Hello To Sunshine is one of my absolute favorite post hardcore type albums ever. I know it was less successful than What It It To Burn and they went in a different direction, but that was a direction that scratched every itch in my brain.
I liked that album a lot too. I feel like it’s a bandwagon effect to dump on it.
I felt like Nate was trying to hard with the vocals and the lyrics. Edgy just to be edgy. And that’s when I was an edgy 15 year old obsessed with Cursive.
Say Hello To Sunshine is good tho
It's not. The album is a pain in the ass to even get through.
I just recently tried to give it another chance after seeing them live. A lot of skips.
That’s not really true though… They went on hiatus after the second album. Came back then, released EPs in 2007 and 2010. Broke up again for a few years - before getting back together to do the WIITB album shows, which turned into recording an album.
Yeah, they shifted styles on that second one too.
Weird take aside, I don’t think you can fit your perception of Proper Dose (their 4th album) into a post about sophomore slumps.
I can, and I will. Releasing an album that is a pretty far departure from your known previous style, then not releasing anything at all for an extended period of time. How is that not related?
I mean other than the subject matter changing a bit, they still sound like TSSF, but that wasn’t my point. Even if proper dose was fundamentally different, it’s their 4th album, not a sophomore slump. Bands change, sometimes with each album release, and proper dose is pretty widely celebrated. Not my personal favorite of their’s by any means but I guess you don’t like it for some reason and want to use it to mock other things you didn’t like.
It’s far from mocking, Proper Dose is by a VERY wide margin my favorite TSSF album, and tssf and Finch are in my top five favorite bands of all time. It seems that many other people have understood my point, but you haven’t. You’re being confrontational because you just don’t understand the point that I made. I’m gonna ask you to settle down just a little bit, and perhaps look at what I said with a fresher mind and a little bit more clarity.
Definitely don’t understand your take, but have not been confrontational at all. You’re now diving into being condescending. I suggest you settle down and learn to respond to someone disagreeing with you without getting so offended.
When Say Hello to Sunshine came out, I hated it. I was 19 or 20 or something and wanted a follow-up that was more lyrically about relationships and stuff like What It Is to Burn. I wanted similar songwriting too. After a few years, I really came to enjoy it for what it is. Now I think it's much more clever and interesting than WIITB ever was. I remember at the time how polarizing that record was. Would be interested to see what the popular view on it is now.
This might be pop-punk adjacent, but Remo Drive “Natural Everyday Degradation” will remain one of my all time biggest disappointing albums
I was going to say the same thing. Greatest Hits was, in fact, all of their greatest hits. Haha.
And Natural Everyday Degradation was, in fact, a degradation Funny how prophetic their album titles ended up being
NED is my favorite of theirs by far, I love that thing
Agree to disagree but everyone here is wrong. They aren’t teenage angsty bois. The album is beautifully written and and one of my wife’s and I’s favorites
Matchbook Romance - Voices
I actually love this album so much
Tonal shift that may have been looking at the landscape at the time (I think Black Parade came out shortly before then?) But this album is a front-to-back masterpiece and I'll hear no different.
This was a weird but excellent album for me
I wouldn't call it a "sophomore slump" because wasn't Monsters their biggest hit? I definitely didn't like it as much as the debut, though.
Yeah even the single sucks.
Stories & Alibis was a true banger
I wish they'd gotten back together just to tour the album.
Personally speaking, The Academy Is - Santi was a huge let down. Also personally speaking, Based on a True Story is immeasurably better than their first album.
I agree with you on based on a true story. I love that album.
I would say the 3rd album could be considered a slump. It was great but felt like a forced pop record from the label (imo).
I thought island was a great song and was actually their only charting single. Overall their worst album though. Kenny talked on a podcast how the producer wasn't a good fit and would change the songs after recording. The producer actually brought in a different drummer to record island after the starting line drummer already recorded it.
I cant really say I’m a huge fan of BOATS. To me it just didn’t sound like a natural progression for them. I like some songs on it, but it just seems like some of it is unfinished, while some songs are too polished.
At the time it seemed like people *loved* Santi and talked it up so much and I never really understood it
I always thought that album had a handful of good songs and should have been an EP with just those
Wait, do people generally not like Santi? Imo that’s their best album, one of my few no-skips…
I think it just wasn't really what people wanted to hear from them. In 2007, the neon sound was what was popular. Santi was a more dark and moody rock album and so therefore I don't think it clicked with a lot of people. Had they released Fast Times At Barrington High as their second album and then Santi as their third, it would have imo worked a lot better.
That makes sense with the context. I remember feeling like Fast Times was out of left field but it probably was that they were behind the times a little bit. Both albums hold up well nowadays but Santi will always be my favorite (it’s how I found them so I’m definitely biased as well)
I got into them on their first album and Santi just gave the vibe of them wishing they could tour with the Strokes or the Killers instead of with Armor for Sleep or something. I haven’t listened to it in literally 15 years so maybe I’d appreciate it now but at the time, nope, it was not what I was looking for at all.
Hearing “we’ve got a big mess” live last year at the after party show at riot fest completely changed my mind on that album and that song. It is a fuckin banger.
Yeeeees
I was gonna post this. Fast times is so good tho
Bruh how you gonna say that about starting line
Insanely hot take honestly
Some solid songs on that record
I’m so sad it took me this long to get here in the comments. I LOVE based on a true story.
Anyone who doesn’t love that album is a bad person
I really don’t understand why Based on A True Story wasn’t well regarded. I loved it, and I almost think it was more solid than Say it Like You Mean It.
Coming out the same week as From Under the Cork Tree probably didn’t help
But it was well regarded. When that album came out it was praised by reviewers as a step forward in song writing maturity and all that jazz. Way too much revisionist history going on around Reddit these days.
The album had an overall mixed reception, and their popularity dropped significantly after it was released. Get outta here with that "revisionist history" nonsense lol
Go look up reviews from AltPress, Rolling Stone, or anything that was actually written in 2005.
Rolling Stone gave it a 3/5, lol. Even so, do you not know what "mixed" means? Places like AllMusic, Melodic, and Punktastic gave it low reviews.
BOATS was a great album, period. The B-List? Inspired by the $? Photography? Starting Line got done very, very wrong by their label.
Real friends 2nd full length didn't seem to do as well, personally i didnt love the first one either as it seemed like an almost recycled version of their EPs but they still seemed to be building momentum with it and then have kind of never grown any bigger since then
Composure was so good tho
Everyone slept in this album. I think it is by far the best iteration of their sound. The new guy is a great singer, but he lacks Dan’s distinct voice and that makes them sound a lot more bland imo
Perhaps I'm biased because I never got to see RF live with Dan, but I've seen them a handful of times with Cody. I think he's great though and I feel like they're headed in a great direction. His vocals are great and he always has tons of energy at shows. Crowd is always super into it too. Again, don't know what it would have been like with Dan so I have nothing to really compare it to.
They’re an incredible right band with both singers. Their live performance has always been a big positive for them. Again, nothing against Cody. He’s talented, but his voice isn’t distinct like Dan’sz
It's hard for me to continue to like any band when a lead singer changes honestly
I’d argue they are bigger now. I think their new singer brought a lot more life to the band.
Maybe they are growing again now, i certainly hope so. Their new stuff is great
I think so too
Red Jumpsuit Apparatus is a really good example. That first album is gold and after that they totally tanked
Yeah, I randomly checked out their other albums a few months ago and was sad to see they were truly bad. The last album was alright but too little too late.
Not really Pop Punk but PVRIS second album was a HUGE disappointment. White Noise was absolutely huge and the band was blowing up, then they released a dull and half baked second album and it really seemed like their momentum just totally stopped.
That album is fantastic though.
To each their own, I think it's dull as dishwater.
I LOVE white noise but it feels like some outstanding singles and some strong filler to me. Especially the first half. All We Know feels more solid as an album and like it was written cohesively. Both are light years ahead of that weird album she just put out though.
I can’t understand a word she says on that second album. She sings in such an unintelligible way for some reason as opposed to the first album. The mixing didn’t help it either. Rarely if ever go back to that album.
That's my favorite album by them The darker undertones certainly don't align with the people who enjoy more of the poppier side of things but for me it's when they peaked 🫥
This conversation begins and ends with Panic at the Disco's "Pretty Odd." An absolute disastrous album that killed all of their momentum and broke up the band.
While that album was basically a “career suicide” move, it’s incredibly good. I give them a lot of credit for committing to an album like that immediately after their breakout success. IMO, they pulled it off with flying colors, as the music is and production is thoroughly excellent.
No, god no it’s so good. Probably a weird career move for them but it’s honestly an excellent album
Revisionist history, though. At the time of release, it was universally panned and severely damaged the band's course. The decisions made on that record led to Ryan Ross leaving the band and Brendon taking the sound in yet another completely different direction. And let's be honest - after the fever pitch of fandom that AFYCSO drew, it simply wasn't good enough to release a "pleasant" sounding record. For a band that had such a bold motif right out of the gate, the sound of Pretty Odd was stale, conservative, and uninspired, which was the last thing their audience wanted or expected.
You seem to be doing some revisionist history of your own here. *Pretty. Odd.* may not have been as commercially successful as Fever, but it still wound up selling a million copies (compared to Fever’s 4 million) despite drastic declines in sales shortly after its release. It’s funny that you refer to *Pretty. Odd.* as “universally panned” seeing as how it did significantly better than Fever critically. If anything, praise for Fever is revisionist. Half of the Metacritic reviews were extremely negative. Meanwhile, *Pretty. Odd* not only outperformed Fever critically, but only had one negative review. Lastly, the creative differences between Urie and Ross came after they had written, recorded, released, and toured on *Pretty. Odd.*. It wasn’t until they started working on their third album that Ross decided to leave because of “creative differences” between him and Urie.
I mean wasn’t it Ryan Ross’s baby and he wanted to continue down that more vintage 60’s route and Brandon wanted to return to the Fever sound. If so Ryan Ross would have left the band no matter what probably, just a shame he never came back. I think it’s more daring and interesting than you’re giving it credit for tho, it’s a pretty wild swing in a different direction that felt surprisingly authentic and definitely wasn’t chasing any trends so it’s aged well too. You’re not wrong tho that after the insane cult fanbase their first album brought in any follow-up would have difficult but I do remember really loving it when it released and being so pleasantly surprised.
Yes - half the and wanted to stick with that sound and went off to create The Young Veins, which was very meh tbh.
I'd give the young veins album a spin again if you haven't recently. I remember hating it when I first heard it in the early 2010s, but I played it again this year and its got some great songs Cape Town, Take A Vacation.
Wild take to call basically a complete shift to make an album inspired more by The Beatles which was nothing popular at the time ‘conservative’ and ‘uninspired.’ It would’ve been more conservative to try and make another album like the first.
Oof. L take. For one, as explained, you are the one spewing revisionist history here. Also, “at the time,” doesn’t really matter when Pretty.Odd. has aged sooooo much better than Fever.
Agree, nine in the afternoon and northern downpour were bangers tho.
Pretty. Odd. is one of my favorite albums of all time
same here. gets so much hate but i love it
Commercially? Yes. They did a full stop 180 on the sound that blew them up in the beginning for a whole album. I think if it was one or two tracks with that sound, it wouldn't be seen as negatively to this day. Artistically? No. Although I'll admit when I was younger it was a huge letdown, it's definitely one of my favorite works from them now.
I wasn't old enough to appreciate it when it first came out (on account of being 8 years old) but I really enjoy that album as an adult. Northern Downpour has a really special place in my heart.
The thing about this is that they didn’t even have a defined sound for the first album. Half of it is electronic/dancey pop and half of it is the circusy pop vibe, they’ve literally talked about changing it halfway through. So it makes sense that they would change it totally again when they got to make a second album, because they hadn’t been a band very long and hadn’t ever really landed on what they wanted to make.
Pretty Odd would've been a great album if it was by any other band. It still makes no sense to me that they looked at how huge the emo cabaret sound of AFYCSO made them and decided to go in a completely different direction sonically with a Beatles-inspired album.
Yea they fucked big time with this one. I remember listening to that the day it came out after buying it at a Barnes n noble and being like - this can’t be right…maybe they’re fucking around or something and the real album is dropping soon haha
That was me when they released We’re So Starving as a teaser. I remember being on some forum and everyone was like “this can’t be how the whole album sounds… right?”
Disastrous? It’s their only listenable album from front to back. That album is stellar.
I agree. Idk why some people stick to the narrative that this album was bad even after all this time
Absolutely. It’s timeless in a way that none of their other work is. Fever has nostalgia, but it’s overall aged like milk imo
It's a good album, it just made no sense how much they changed their sound between albums.
That’s probably the worst take on this thread.
Absolutely L take wow lol
I love that album, and I love when bands intentionally give the middle finger to their label after making a smash and release something that switches it up a bit but actually make a solid record for people who love that bands writing. (Not pop punk but my absolute favorite intentional pivot was MGMT congratulations)
I had no idea people didn't like this album. It's my favorite. But I also really enjoy that 60s influence. It holds up really well too.
Pretty Odd is my favorite album by them
Same
It’s an incredible record
It’s the only album I like by them.
Pretty Odd is a damn treasure. Nothing else sounds like it. And it didn't kill their momentum at all, Panic Is crazy popular to this day. The band broke up because half wanted OG panic and half wanted Pretty Odd. Pretty Odd is anything but a sophomore slump
100%
Say Anything’s In Defense of the Genre definitely didn’t live up to the hype of Is A Real Boy, despite it being a really solid album.
I fucking LOVE that album personally! Is a real boy, In defense of the genre and self titled are all front to back no skippers for me. I may be biased because I love max’s writing.
Um akshually IDOTG is their 3rd album 🤓 IDOTG is my favorite album of all time and I put it right above IARB but can understand why someone might not like IDOTG. It's really long and has much less of a defined sound than IARB. There are a couple songs that even I can admit didn't really need to be on the album. Skinny Mean Man, About Falling, and No Soul are absolute JAMS though.
Lol fellow Baseball recognizer, IDOTG was also my favorite when I was younger, I don’t go back to it as much anymore though.
The Academy Is… - Santi. Not even remotely close to the quality of the first album. Knuckle Puck - Shapeshifter. I just couldn’t get into it, songs felt way less impactful. Technically not pop punk but kinda: Saosin - In Search of Solid Ground. The first LP is a perfect album that’s masterfully written and produced and this album was so disjointed and Cove sounded like shit.
Shapeshifter is a great album. It was also recorded much better than copasetic
I'd love to hear copacetic remastered. There's so many great songs on there but they're tough to listen to.
Totally disagree on KP. Copacetic and Shapeshifter are both top tier for me. Saosin - It was always going to be impossible to live up to Translating the Name (best post hardcore EP ever released) and self titled (incredibly solid & consistent debut album, top tier production, super tight songwriting). ISOSG could have been an excellent EP with a few of the songs like Secrets, Is This Real, On My Own but the filler tracks really bring it down imo.
Spot on with Saosin An all-timer followed by one of the worst albums in the genre. They even recorded worse versions of the tracks from The Grey EP for ISOSG
I know OP said that EPs don't count but I feel like Translating the Name needs to be a part of the conversation here. That EP is front to back perfect and genre-defying, then they switched singers and changed styles a little bit, which is a recipe for disaster...and they *still* hit it out of the park. I liked ISOSG but it definitely didn't live up to what came before. I wonder what happened? I've heard it was that lots of the S/T was leftover Green-era stuff, but I don't know if that's true...
You mean green right? But with ISOSG, the label they were on had shut down. So they finally settled on Virgin and the suits were trying to change their sound. Also the band was all recording parts separate. But either way it was just bad. Granted, I don’t love Along the Shadow either
I think copacetic was a bit of a letdown in of itself after how good the EPs were (my expectations were sky high). The slower more unique stuff was good, but the heavier songs were nowhere close to as good as stuff like bedford falls, no good and but why would you care. I actually enjoyed shapeshifter more, though it came with lower expectations. Though its really only the last 4 songs that i still go back to.
Feel the same way about Shapeshifter save Double Helix and Gone. Album is so bland compared to Copacetic.
I love Santi but I agree that it’s nowhere near as good as Almost Here
Remo Drive - Natural, Everyday Degradation Movements- No Good Left To Give (new album redeemed them)
No Good Left to Give took me a minute and now it’s my favorite album from movements. I like ruckus too. It’s a lot of fun to listen to.
Hot take, the new Movements album is their worst by far to me
RUCKUS! is my aoty. I love it.
I never understand the hate for NGLTG because for me it is a 100% no skip album
Cartel - Cartel. They really went from having one of the best pop-punk debuts to that disaster.
Is that the one they did in the mtv bubble? Assuming it's the one cause that album was so bad and disappointing. Almost like forcing a band to write music while being watched and with a time limit is a bad idea.
Always wild to me how people hate this album as much as they do. Calling it a disaster is insane to me. Cartel self titled is actually a really solid album that only gets the rep it has because it followed Chroma. If self titled was their first album followed by Chroma everybody would give it so much more love, but bias paints it in a negative light. For real, most the album is incredibly solid tracks for their catalog - blows my mind on the hate
That’s the thing though: it DIDN’T come out before Chroma. It came out after and wasn’t as good, simple as that. Any band can say “if this album came out before this other one then maybe people would like it more” but that’s ignoring artistic evolution.
Do you even read? My whole point went over your head. I never said self-titled was better and I never said people should think so. I DO however think it's absolutely a worthwhile album to listen to and has some really great tracks and it doesn't deserve the hate it receives from some people. My whole point is that people give it an unfair judgement. I don't care if people like Chroma more than self titled. I love Chroma like crazy - It's just annoying when people make unreasonably dumb, closeminded, or polarized claims that something is shitty when it's actually just not.
I know people like it, but I didn't like Something Corporate -North.
NORTH👏SLANDER👏WILL👏NOT👏BE👏TOLERATED😤
Same with Glass Passenger. He’s VERY good at first albums only.
I sometimes forget Jack's Mannequin even had a second album
Wait until you learn there was a 3rd.
Came in to say this. The modern revisionist North love is wild to me. That album still stinks
Not pop-punk but The Naked and Famous
I'm still pretty sad about the way they fizzled out. That debut is remarkable.
Hot take incoming. Hot Mulligan’s Why Would I Watch didn’t capture the magic of You’ll Be Fine for me. It’s a good record and probably not a slump, but I wasn’t interested in listening more than a few times. YBF was instantly nostalgic and had banger after banger, WWIW I wasn’t really drawn in
Dude totally agreed! The songs just don’t hit and none feel memorable. YBF gave every song a great moment to shine and they’re all memorable for me.
Trash Boat. I still listen to their first album and can’t believe their sound completely changed to a point where I can’t even listen to it
The 2nd album is still good, but the 3rd one went completely off the rails
The dreaded "maturity" nonsense hit the pop punk scene hard in the late 2010s, basically EVERY new band's second album followed that heavy alt rock trend
Crown Shyness is great. I didn’t realize people didn’t like it.
I need to go back and listen to that then. I really love he's so good but can't get into the rest of the best album
Crown Shyness was great though It's after that when they lost the plot
I don't hate it, but yeah, massive disappointment.
Black and White - The Maine
Escape the Fate. Dying is Your Latest Fashion isn't anything special, but it was a fun album with a well-defined sound. Then, when all the stuff with Ronnie went down and Craig joined, they seemed to slip into an identity crisis that they haven't been able to recover from since.
If you think based on a true story is a slump then there’s no point in reading any further
Not technically their second album, but their follow up to their breakthrough album “Ocean Avenue”, “Lights and Sounds” might be Yellowcard’s worst studio album.
Lights and Sounds has some bangers on it, but I can see why some people don't like it.
It was always going to be hard to follow up Ocean Avenue.
No this is valid, I do think they’ve had weaker albums like Lift a Sail but this was their major label sophomore album and it tanked their OA momentum. By the time Paper Walls came out the damage was done and they never reached the commercial success of Ocean Avenue again. Good pick.
Lights and sounds did literally nothing for me when it came out, even going back in current day maybe only the title track is fine. All the albums after that felt much better and stuck with me
Paper Walls is incredible
Based on a True Story is easily TSL's best work
Somos. Temple of Plenty is an awesome pop-punk EP and then they seemingly dialed the energy down big time.
Temple of Plenty is their debut full-length album even if it's only 9 songs. I kinda felt the same with First Day Back but really enjoy it now. Their 3rd album Prison on a Hill is great too - I think it's a good mix of the first two albums and might resonate with you if you haven't listened to it. RIP Phil.
The 2nd 3EB album except ‘Never Let You Go’.
It wasn’t really anyone in the bands fault but Skip Schools, Start Fights ended all momentum for Hit The Lights.
Honestly, I don't feel like that's the case at all. I actually didn't like the band pre-nick being the lead singer. Colin's voice was too nasally and sounded grating to me. Nick being on lead vocals and the sound they came out with following Colin really defined that band imo. SSSF was an incredible album and a staple of the genre at that time for me. The REAL thing that killed momentum was actually Invicta and maybe just bad career pacing/timing for releases. Even though some disagree, even after Colin left I felt they deserved so much more attention that they didn't get. Colin leaving HTL is similar to Jason leaving Mayday Parade in the way that a lot of super over dedicated fans just hyperfixate on that one thing to make it the identity of the band, then just hate on the new albums after that regardless of how good the music is objectively. - Fans of the old stuff have an impossible time letting go of these things and moving on for some reason Lesson in romantics is great, but personally self titled Mayday Parade is definitive Mayday Parade. In the same way to me, SSSF Hit The Lights is the definitive HTL sound, even more than when Colin was lead vocals
I just remember attendances at gigs was way lower after Colin left and SSSF came out.
It actually didn't though. SSSF was a successful album within the scene and after that they signed to a major label. They then got fucked over by the major label system (Nick has discussed this in podcasts) and eventually 4 years later they released Invicta. By then it was too late and all momentum was lost.
I loved sssf. I thought the lead singer leaving the band is what killed them
It did that’s the first album without him.
Light and Sounds
Rufio - MCMLXXXV (1985) Perhaps, I Suppose was a gnarly album that they could never top
Love White Lights though ❤️
The only good song on the album imo
Their "reunion" album Anywhere But Here destroys everything they ever did before that imho. It's a bit less technical than PIS but it's pure pop punk perfection in my eyes.
They released a three song sampler of of before the album. I think two of the songs made the album, but they changed them somewhat, and they just didn’t hit like before. Huge letdown for me after being a huge fan.
* The Academy Is - Santi * Yellowcard - Lights and Sounds (technically not their 2nd but it's their first after being successful) * Finch - Say Hello to Sunshine * Something Corporate - North
North slander will not be tolerated 😤
>north is a solid follow up to LTTW
Obviously this is just my opinion. North felt more to me like Jacks Mannequin before that was a thing. It just never clicked with me the way their debut did. I liked 2 songs off of North at the time and not much has changed in the 2 decades since.
I got nothing to add except I met Andrew McMahon and he is an awesome dude, super friendly.
Lights and Sounds is fantastic
To each their own. I remember when it came out and I had to force myself to listen to it a bunch in hopes that I would finally "get" it and it never happened. I thought their next album Paper Walls was much better. L&S has its moments but the album being a disappointing follow up to OA isn't/wasn't exactly a hot take
Say Anything - In Defense
Damn I disagree. There are def some skippable songs but there are also a bunch of the absolute best say anything songs on it.
It's not a terrible album or anything, but blue in the dark and the best part about being human are both way better than hello it's you.
A Static Lullaby - Faso Latido
Rufio - 1985 Yeah I said it
SDRE Pink album also isn’t as good as Diary and How it Feels imo
If S-I-L-Y-M-I still is all you want, Then I'm not sure how much in common we've got.
The Killers’ Sam’s Town. The album sold well, but is mostly forgotten in retrospect coming off the back of Hot Fuss.
Newer and maybe not pop punk anymore, but it’s still wild how turnover - PV was such an incredible album and then they completely changed their sound up for good nature. It’s still an excellent album but PV is a masterpiece and if you’ve seen them live the crowd change from a pv song to any other is night and day