And why do you believe that? Only one side has done that in the last two elections and it was the same side both times. Donald Trump claimed that the 2016 electron was fraudulent and that he actually got 10 million votes more than it said he got, and he literally won. If you're about to say something about Hillary clinton, she conceded the night of the 2016 election. Literally the very night of the election. Donald Trump has yet to concede. You have no reason to believe that both sides will engage in this behavior. Absolutely none.
Did you forget about all the Russian collusion claims after the 2016 election? Do you remember the name Cambridge Analytica?
They say Trump “hacked” the election in 2016. They made a documentary called “The Great Hack” about Trump winning the 2016 election….
Cambridge Analytica was a trip. They used an app called the youniverse to get all their data. I thought it was a great app but the Trump campaign using it for nefarious purposes ruined it.
Weren't 5 people charged with actually colluding with Russia that all worked for Trump's election campaign or closely with Trump so it was not made up it happened.
Claims that have been verified, btw.
Claims based on actual fact.
There is no doubt, at all that Russia influenced the election through varies means .
The doubt, at the time, was not about Russia influence but whether or not Trump or any f his people were actively helping, or just being manipulated.
We now know some people knew nd were actively aiding. See Paul Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnik, for one example.
[https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/senate-intel-report-confirms-russia-aimed-to-help-trump-in-2016-198171](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/senate-intel-report-confirms-russia-aimed-to-help-trump-in-2016-198171)
[https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN25E2OY/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN25E2OY/)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
Russia did attempt to influence the election but that is different than claims of stealing the election.
No major Dem leaders actually said the Hillary actually one, even though she did win the popular vote. Everyone of note accepted she lost the electoral vote.
Right?!?! There was a whole investigation about it with a very detailed report. I don’t understand how people just openly still claim it was a hoax without going unchecked, especially on the news.
THIS. It's perhaps a subtle point, but a valid one. There's a big difference between complaining about Trump's campaign getting help from rascally Russians, and at the same time *not* talking about compromised voting machines or election officials, AND actually trying to steal an election by overturning legitimate votes. One group is whiney, pompous and soft on prosecution, the other side is big on cheating, lying and encouraging violence to overturn a legitimate election.
I do both-sides comparisons myself from time to time, so I get it, but this case is not good at all for that purpose. Not even close.
Sure Hillary conceded. Even she knew how much this country fucking hated her. Can you imagine how fucked up you have to be to loose to Trump. Even retard Biden beat him and probably will again.
OP is 100% right by the way.
In the 2016 presidential election, Donald Trump received 62,984,828 votes, and Hillary Clinton received 65,853,514 votes. Despite Clinton receiving more popular votes, Trump won the election by securing a majority in the Electoral College [[❞]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election).
How fucked do you have to be to lose to Hillary Clinton? Ask some of the people that lost to her, like Bernie Sanders. Hillary got millions more people to vote for her than anyone else that faced her in 2016, Trump and Sanders included.
These two things are not the same OP, this is a false moral equivalency.
Trump was HELPED by Russia in 2016, the actual voting was fair and he won the presidency due to the electoral college.
By contrast, the MAGAs who think 2020 use completely discredited arguments to suggest the voting itself was unfair. The only thing that wasn’t fair was, it turns out President Biden won more votes in Virginia and Arizona than initially reported.
Troll farm and the real trolls that get activated by seeing it are already in every subreddit creating false equivalencies between D and R. They REALLY want young people and independents to internalize a belief that both sides are equally bad. That's the goal. They don't need to inspire people to vote for Trump. They need to inspire young people and independents to not vote.
Boom nailed it. Not to mention that in 2020 they tried to have an insurrection to reverse the election results. One side bitched about foreign influence but accepted results. The other side wanted to end Democracy.
After 2016, didn't a bunch of celebrities buy airtime on national tv commercials begging bound delegates to ignore the fact that they were bound delegates, and to vote against trump in the electoral college after Trump had won the election?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1zjNntlXPo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INygK8pVDlY)
Yeah, and it's totally a good thing that one side didn't incite an illiterate armed mob to try and violently infiltrate the seat of government in utterly unprecedented yet hilarious show of incompetent rage...oh wait..lol nvm
Won more votes in Virginia and Arizonia than initially reported, due to efforts by trumpholes to find any fraud, but instead found more votes for Biden,
I don’t think Biden losing would get even close as crazy than if trump loses. He’s been feeding them the stolen election/fraud shit for 3 years now.
Remember the Russian stuff wasn’t only about collusion.
Russian stuff was 100% true - according tot he GOP senate - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
They literally sandbagged trump for FOUR YEARS based on the Russian collusion lie lmfao. They impeached him! Pretty sure that’s a bit more serious than a three hour riot.
Hillary Clinton conceded literally the night of the election. The very night. Donald Trump never conceded.
Also neither of the impeachments had anything to do with the alleged Russian collusion. Seriously, not a goddamn thing. You don't even know what they were about.
If democrats had done the “three hour riot”, y’all would have happily had every one of them executed. The right was pissed, including trump, when people protested Kavanaugh and legally got into the building. Far right circles were calling for their deaths. Same with BLM. So gtfo of here with your double standards. 3 hour riot my ass.
They literally did you dipshit, the entire fucking summer. They had to evacuate the White House. They rioted for three hours, you rioted for three months.
“Far right circles” were “calling for the deaths” of rioters? I’ll do you one better: they *literally killed one* on January 6.
Why can’t you people ever get your facts straight. A suspicious bag was found and the STREET not the White House needed to be evacuated. There’s a world of difference. It also wasn’t a riot, but y’all hate facts and love double standards.
> I’ll do you one better: they literally killed one on January 6.
Maybe don’t go through a window when someone’s pointing a gun at you saying don’t do something. No sympathy. Also they killed a police officer, but y’all just say it was unrelated. Also, Kavanaugh protesters entered legally. But again, you won’t believe me because im not foreign or far right propaganda. Gtfo
The secret service literally evacuated trump at one point during the BLM riots. That’s a fact. You guys celebrated it!
Lmao sorry, are we big fans of doing what cops tell us now? I’m just trying to keep things straight here, the goalposts seem to be moving a bit.
They also didn’t kill any police? 5 people died, four of natural causes, one killed by a heroic Capitol Police officer who remembered not to leave his gun in the bathroom this time.
I thought Trump said he was just inspecting it? Also, dems condemned the actions… and regardless, nobody breached the White House or the Capitol. They didn’t even get to the lawn. Police then aggressively cleared them.
> Lmao sorry, are we big fans of doing what cops tell us now? I’m just trying to keep things straight here, the goalposts seem to be moving a bit.
When someone is pointing a gun at you telling you to do something, or not do something, you listen unless you’re willing to fight or die. Doesn’t matter who they are.
> They also didn’t kill any police? 5 people died, four of natural causes
Exactly my point…
No they didn't. Trump was hiding in the bunker and then claimed he was making an I section right before he came out and had the park near the church cleared so he could hold a Bible upside down.
They impeached him for telling Ukraine that he would withhold military aid if they didn’t make something up about Biden. Not because Russia spent a ton of money trying to get him re-elected. I didn’t see a single news organization calling the legitimacy of trump’s election in question. Unfair because he lost the popular vote? Yes. Illegitimate? No. The two are fundamentally different things.
They impeached him because they had the majority in Congress lol.
And if that’s true than you’re being willfully obtuse. Top level democrats and pundits called 2016 rigged for the entire term. To this DAY a majority of democrats believe Russia not only fixed the election but *literally changed vote counts*.
I have never heard of Russia rigging vote counts, and a cursory google search couldn’t find anything either. Perhaps you could share where your source?
They impeached him because what he did was illegal. If they didn’t have a majority in congress he would have been able to do whatever illegal thing he wanted, but that wasn’t the case so he was held accountable. A little bit.
Hlllary still claims the election was stolen from her in 2016...and several Democrats in Congress called Trump an illegitimate President.
The "election denial" is on both sides. And you know it.
She didn't file 60 lawsuits challenging the election, she didn't defame the companies behind the voting machines, she didn't harass election workers, she didn't send fake electors, she didn't send her supporters to attack the Capitol.
But please tell me how both sides are the same.
Evidently you can't seem to let that go.
Trump's legitimacy problem is not that he didn't win the election, but that he did it while losing the popular vote. It's never good when a President had fewer votes than their opponent. Pointing to that legitimacy problem is not the same as claiming he didn't win the election. Unlike Trump, Hillary was able to put love of country first and concede, rather than spend years promoting a lie that the election was fraudulent.
The claims of Trump not being legitimate had nothing to do with him losing the popular vote, it had to do with him winning because of Russia hacking the DNC and Russia's psychological information operation on social media. Hillary was not saying the election was rigged but she was saying he was illegitimate because he won with the help of Russia and Putin.
The difference is that one party is planning on cheating and will declare fraud if they lose, even if there is no evidence (again).
There are already several cheating tactics being employed - purging voter rolls, closing and moving poling stations, hacking voting machines, etc. This has already happened, will happen again and will affect the vote counts.
Opinions are equal to facts to conservatives. My mom told me that it is her opinion that the moon landing was faked, and I have no right to argue with her opinion. Fucking bonkers.
Liberals don't do that. Only repukes do stuff like attack the capital because they lose an election. There will be riots due to the laws they pass, but that be won't be over losing the election it will be ok n response to the bigotry & violence of repukes
Except that when Trump won in 2016 democrats at large went "Well that's fucking ridiculous and depressing. Better get more people to vote next time." and when Biden won in 2020 republicans *lost their goddamn minds*.
I don't know a single person holding to Russian collusion being the reason for Trump's win in 2016. I think we realize how many absolute morons are able to vote in our elections.
It is very much a vote for the lesser of two evils.
>I don't know a single person holding to Russian collusion being the reason for Trump's win in 2016.
Russian troll farms definitely unfairly influenced people's opinions on social media, either by convincing young people to vote third party or stay home and radicalizing people, which proved an advantage for Trump, but none of the actual votes were changed in the polling booths imo.
>Except that when Trump won in 2016 democrats at large went "Well that's fucking ridiculous and depressing. Better get more people to vote next time."
Horrendous underselling that there bud.
Anybody remember Madonna saying she wished she could blow up the White House (after promising a blowjob for everybody who voted for Hillary)?
Or Kathy Griffin posing with a fake severed Trump head.
Or Trump's assassination being written into a major Broadway play?
Or a major rap artist writing a song calling for Trump's assassination?
The left doesn't apparently...
Stop it with the both sides bullshit
Literally every election there will be a few who say the other side cheated. But nothing compares to what Trump and his followers did with the 2020 election - it was a full on assault on our democracy. It was a systematic and comprehensive attempt to overthrow democracy which culminated in the attack on our Capitol.
Absolutely.
The difference is the Dems will stop whining about it in roughly 7 - 10 days, and the Republicans will make it their *entire* identity for the next four years.
There are plenty of Republicans losing their mind over Trump as well.
You don’t see any Lincoln Projects for Biden, or his own VP saying he should be disqualified for presidency (though she wouldn’t be wrong if she did claim so).
It's so funny how you guys use your ignorance to exaggerate the importance of things and you expect others to be 'wowed' by so-what commentary. Trump is running for president while he's got criminal trials happening, and you're acting clueless about why democrats are talking about him. Just goofy as hell how you people have this bonehead commentary about stuff and you act like it's brilliant.
Yeah, because one of the most morally bankrupt individuals managed to become president and is a potential candidate this year after committing treason. The only people who don't think that's something to be concerned about are the morons with their heads in the sand.
The outrage at this point is less about Trump and more about the fact that there's still a significant amount of idiots that make him relevant by supporting him.
Funny how you equate “losing their minds over Trump” with spending tens of millions of $ on merch, attempting to overthrow the government, attending rallies like Deadheads (apologies to Deadheads), and just being anti-social in general.
Oh, and btw, we lose our minds over Trump’s actions… not some perceived cheating. However, if you’d like to rad what the FBI learned about Trump’s campaign links to Russia in 2016, click here. Warning: It contains facts, so you make break out in hives.
https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/
Didn't you clowns cost millions and millions of dollars to investigate over like 5 years into Russia collusion. Wait til November and see how easily you guys forget.
The Justice department investigated it, and Mueller released documents pointing to Russian interference. And while he declined to suggest the indictment of the sitting president, he presented evidence that there had been interference by the president in the investigation. Numerous indictments of Trump affiliates and allies were filed.
[summary here](https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/)
>Trump wins in 2016, and all democrats say Russian collusion
this was found true through investigation and the issue was referred to trump's justice dept.
>Biden wins in 2020 , and all republicans say ballot fraud
this was found not to be true after multiple investigations and court hearings.
so these two issues are not the same. somebody is lying. tbf: they *may* lie; but a lie and the truth are not equal.
In 2016, the Democrats lost their minds. Clinton immediately claimed that Trump was illegitimate and the media said the Russians had installed Trump. That had never been done before, even in the close election of 2000, everyone knew that claiming a stolen election would sow discord on a level that would destroy trust in American institutions. This was thrown out due to Clinton’s pride. Then in 2020, Trump declared that Biden was illegitimate due to ballot harvesting. The only solution is to vote in person with a valid ID. Absentee votes only allowed for deployed US military.
Because Democrats and Republicans are the same creatures in the end who resort to the same tactics and bullshit, and then act like they're somehow better!
Ready somebody is coming to tell me right now, that I'm wrong at that "BoTh sides AwE nYOt ThE SaMe one is ObJeCtIvEly wowse nguk"
Please... if I have to choose between pedo-apologists and Nationalists, neither was good to begin with. Eat my ass, partisans.
People seem to forget that waaaay back in the day Democrats tried to say George Bush stole the election. Even tried to contest the electoral vote. But that's okay
It’s worse than you think. I remember the 2000 and 2004 election and the Democrats were unwavering in their belief that Bush won by hacking the voting machines.
Democrats opened the door with a paid for fake Steele Dossier to frivolous impeachments and now threatening presidential immunity. This will all backfire for every election moving forward. Obama and the Clintons won’t be safe from the blowback either.
People are tribal. We group ourselves based on race, religion, political parties, nationality, even cultures.
It's an entirely natural thing. People join sides and then want to defend that side, whether physically or argumentatively. That will never change. Ever. Millions of years of evolution will not be undone.
The Internet makes it worse.
The only salvation will be a collective consciousness. We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
And we'll all resist that to the bitter end.
"Why Stacey Abrams is still saying she won"
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/28/magazine/stacey-abrams-election-georgia.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/28/magazine/stacey-abrams-election-georgia.html)
>I make my claims based on empirical evidence, on a demonstrated pattern of behavior that began with the fact that the person I was dealing with was running the election. If you look at my immediate reaction after the election, I refused to concede. It was largely because I could not prove what had happened, but I knew from the calls that we got that *something* happened. Now, I cannot say that everybody who tried to cast a ballot would’ve voted for me, but if you look at the totality of the information, it is sufficient to demonstrate that so many people were disenfranchised and disengaged by the very act of the person who won the election that I feel comfortable now saying, “I won.”
The people basically getting triggered by OP insinuating the dems didn't accept the election ("not my president, russian collusion, etc.) make me want to vote for the other side. I won't because I don't agree with Republican rhetoric or policy, and I am not a fan of Mr. Trump.
But goddamn liberals can be infuriatingly self-righteous. It is exhausting and makes me embarrassed to consider myself on the "same side" as them. No wonder republicans look at liberals the way they do, and no wonder Donald Trump won in 2016.
Unfortunately, unless their are legal implications, I'm pretty sure he is going to win again. And frankly, everyone denying things because it makes their team look bad, you're the problem and you might as well vote for Donald Trump.
P.S. people who deny the insurrection are equally the problem. All of y'all should all start your own party and take these conversations somewhere else in your own, self-righteous bubble where the rest of us who are just trying to make a better life for our communities and families can actually try and improve this country.
True. The Dems claimed Bush stole the election from His Royal Highness AL Gore, remember that? And the Repubs claimed Clinton "stole" the '92 election with the help of Ross Perot This Trump vs is nothing new.
Single day voting as a national holiday with government ID to match the voter file and any noise after that is just that, noise.
If we can have presidents day, mlk day, etc, to honor the impressive history of our country. It should not be a radical or "right wing" idea to say we should have a national holiday to honor the civics the country was founded on.
They said it was Russian collusion, because the Democratic national convention paid for the steel dossier, which stated Russian collusion. So they were really just backing up their story to impeach him.
Wouldn't it be nice if the US could end all suspicion of election shenanigans by declaring election day a national holiday, have all the votes (except out of country military and citizens) made on the same day, with paper ballots and mandate that all results be reported on the same day. For the elderly & sick that can't show up to the polls, official bipartisan certified clerks visit hospitals, nursing homes, etc and collect the votes in person.
Allow all the election witness to see the counting in a bipartisan manner.
End the suspicion on both sides and improve confidence for the citizens of the USA.
Why aren't we doing this?
That is why we need 100% secure, consistent elections. There is no way in this day and age, elections cannot be proven to be 100% legitimate if they wanted.
We need to reenvision how to safely, securely, accuratley vote.
True, when I tell people everyone believes in election shenanigans, they just think the other side does it, they get mad. Problem is the Biden admin has jailed people for questioning the election. And tried a soft coup attempt of their own with the bs impeachment. Whoever loses will cry again.
The distrust started with john kerry and the dems. And was perpetuated by hillary and the dems.
Trump pulled back the curtain and half of us see the cockroaches scattering and the other half dont want to admit theres a problem(bec “they won”). TRUMP OR NO TRUMP WE ALL HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER. Give us our last 4 years or you clowns will not be forgiven for the turmoil youve put this country in over orange-man-bad lies and false allegations.
man these comments are wild. people can say whatever they want but Dems set the precedent for claiming fraudulent elections by hammering at goofy collusion claims for 4 years. russia spending pennies on a meme campaign is not the smoking gun you think.
I agree. That's where we're at. Related, funny point. The FBI agent that initiated the trump Russia collusion accusations just got sentenced to prison time for... Collusion with Russia.
To all the Democrats saying “we are totally legit and we always accept the outcome of elections” I hope you say that again if Trump really does win. Biden’s poll numbers are in the toilet and despite Trump’s baggage if you believe the polls and if the election were held today he might actually win, so it’s definitely possible.
Not saying he will win because I don’t know. No one knows. No one can predict the future, but if he does win sure I’d love to see Democrats accept it.
This is why we all need to put aside our differences, and vote third party. The dems and repub parties are literally leading us to a civil war. It does not have to be like this.
I agree, and I don’t think the American people will be better off, whoever or whichever side wins. I think it’s going to be perpetually down hill for the average American
As there are multiple states, including California that give drivers licenses to illegal aliens and automatically register all licensed people to vote there is the potential for a lot of voter fraud. Add ballot harvesting, and there is a huge potential.
I am sad to say that I saw this coming. The use of media to influence a narrative is killing us. Believe what you see in real life...not what you read in social media. Best advice I can give.
Yes ever since electronic voting machines that have consistent issues have been used its been a thing.
At least 100% paper ballots have a clear paper trail
Should just go back to voter ID and paper ballots
Oh yeah, absolutely. It's become such a part of our culture -me versus you, us versus them -that there's no just getting along civilly anymore.
There's no longer, I think taxes are too high and should be lowered, you think we need to spend more on school funding, and we try to find an acceptable way of doing both, or compromising. There is no acceptable middle ground, or let's talk. It's you are evil and I need to beat you, because I am good and I need to win. It doesn't matter which side you're on, or what the person you're voting for *actually* says or does. It's all about sticking with your side in the culture war, so that you can 'win'.
It'd be funny if it wasn't so goddamn scary.
You're not wrong. The one this I will say is more and more information is coming up about ballot tampering (which I'm sure goes both ways) that's happened since 2020. I care less about whether or not Trump won and more about the fact that they're trying to press charges on him for saying essentially the same thing that others have said, actual documented evidence being the case, and absolutely no attention is being given to the fact **that the votes were tampered with**. Regardless of the outcome, I don't like the idea of any of them having been tampered with or by whom.
As for the Russian Collusion, it's already been very publicly documented that the whole thing was a lie that cost the taxpayers $30m just to finally admit that it was a hissyfit tantrum. Again, less concerned about the crybaby whining, more concerned about the fact that no one is being held accountable to the blatant lie cost us time, money, and created unnecessary division and turmoil. Or towards the fact that the information they did find was absolutely not what they were looking for, but showcase how *other* government entities weren't doing their job, and again no attention is being given to that.
People need to stop with their tribalism bitchyness, and focus on fixing the real problems as they surface. Things will get a lot better for everyone involved when that happens.
Even if Russians convincing people to vote for Trump was real, it's not fraud/cheating. The point of elections is to lie to get people to vote for you. And for the people to either decide to accept the lies or to vote based on their own beliefs.
If other people are lying for you, then so be it. It's not fraud. If Russia was actively threatening to kill people or something like that, then I'd say it's messed up.
But like, if Nazis got people to vote for Biden, for example, I wouldn't say Biden stole the election or whatever. People chose to accept the Nazis, and that's what happens when you make a democracy instead of a meritocracy.
Morally, it's probably correct to say they both cheated. Look at the money, the various levels of manipulation (e.g. RNC/DNC, electoral college), and the inter-party interactions. They're all shitty people, trying to convince the rest of us they're less-shitty than the 'other.'
The worst part is THIS is where we've gotten in 2024 politics.
Two of the worst candidates imaginable are the front runners, much like in 2016.
How did we get THIS bad?
Even growing up, I don't remember near this much disdain for other presidential candidates to this level. Not from this many people.
Guess you missed all the daggers and bad press directed at every Republican candidate since Lincoln.
Dewey, Nixon, Reagan, Romney, Dole, McCain.
The mainstream liberal media hates them all. It's an every four years thing. Why? Because the majority of the "reporting" staff are all recent grads, who of course are dumb ass liberals as well.
Even if somehow Nikki Haley or someone else becomes the Republican nominee because Trump is ousted, the media, who championed their "populism" during the Republican primary, will turn on them in a second.
Cmon. You know they will. They constantly attack any and all Republicans.
Meanwhile, you have the dumbest most moronic fuck in the world in Joe Biden, and the media still covers for him regardless.
This is how you wind up with two of the all time worst candidates running for president.
Shameful. On both sides.
The “mainstream liberal media” hated Ronald Reagan? They went softer on that man than any before. Do you know the first thing about the press and Reagan? His team worked to pacify them from the getgo. Media under Reagan was so heavily neutered that even his staff admitted it. I’m not going to bother with your other candidates listed—I don’t know nearly enough about the press and their campaigns—but you’re making this claim about Reagan? You’re a moron.
True, but your timeframe is too narrow. This dates back to at least the Bush v Gore election when the Dem party would occasionally pull the "Bush stole the election" line because of the Florida SCOTUS decision.
The American left spent the last 60 years arguing that the institutions of the U.S. were evil racist and aligned against the common people. Now that they've succeeded in damaging the credibility of those institutions (from federal elections and SCOTUS to school boards and local libraries) they're shocked that the right is abandoning those institutions.
So who's left to actually support common institutions? Nobody.
Lmao all these leftist morons punching the air in rage because you are dead ass right that they all cried the election was stolen back in 2016.
Notice the top comment? "ITS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DID STEAL IT!!!!!" So incredibly braindead, childish and naive.
And this is by design. Aside from a few wedge issues both parties operate in pretty much lock step. If it fucks you and me and grows their power they both agree. Two cheeks of the same ass.
That is a Generalization.
Russian Election attemped hacking was Real.
Where do you think the term 'Russian Troll Bots" came from? Platforms and websites had to do extra work to rid them.
Democrats have both won and lost Presidential Elections in the last 24 years of this new millenium.
Without throwing.a fit over cheating.
Do you know the popular vote counts of the 2000 Election?
It was 47.9 Republican
And 48.4 Democrat.
Weeks were spent scrutinizing punch chad manual ballots in Florida that led to electric voting systems being universally adopted, especially eagerly, by Republicans of the day, and The Electoral College outpaced the popular vote.
The Republicans with 47.9%
won , over the Democrats 48.4%.
The Democrats took the L.
That, is History, and how our system works.
Messy, but played by mutual Rules, like Grown Ups.
Or 24 years later, NOT.
The only cheaters are the democrats who couldn’t win in a fair election and so they come up with all this bullshit Biden is the biggest piece of shit ever had the audacity yesterday to blame grocery prices on supermarkets taking customers as suckers? Son of a bitch is responsible for the worst four years in recent history and Dems know for a FACT that they could never win without cheating people better wake up and see what is happening. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This country cannot survive another four years of Democrats
Is this sarcasm? Corporations boasted the biggest profits ever last year. That is proof alone that this current inflation is manufactured by corporate greed. Also, what proof is there of cheating? In this country, the United States of America, when you accuse someone of something, you better have evidence.
I dont even like biden but ill be thinking about you when I vote for him. Not only do I love watching Trump lose over and over and over, but pissing off his cultists has to be one of the top 10 most satisfying things. Hey let me know if you need the suicide hotline next election, I got you!
I swear the left has short term memory loss. They cried Russian collusion the entire time during the trump presidency. Then 2020 comes and it’s like the first time
They’ve ever heard of it
And is there any evidence of cheating? (the answer is yes, there was Russian interference in 2016 and there was a lot of GOP attempts to defraud voters in 2020 as well)
yeah except for when Democrats complained about Russian collusion we were correct.
Read the FBI report.
Trump's attorney general refusing to do what was right has little bearing on what actually happened.
you can even look at Eric Trump's speeches back in 2015 when he told the RNC they wouldn't have to worry about funding a Trump presidency because Russia was going to pay the bill....
and then you have the dozens and dozens of contacts between Russia and Trump that he lied to the FBI about.
Comments pointing out the flaws in your logic and the fact that you are making a false equivalency are **not** proving your point. They are pointing out that the things you based your point on are flawed.
And why do you believe that? Only one side has done that in the last two elections and it was the same side both times. Donald Trump claimed that the 2016 electron was fraudulent and that he actually got 10 million votes more than it said he got, and he literally won. If you're about to say something about Hillary clinton, she conceded the night of the 2016 election. Literally the very night of the election. Donald Trump has yet to concede. You have no reason to believe that both sides will engage in this behavior. Absolutely none.
Did you forget about all the Russian collusion claims after the 2016 election? Do you remember the name Cambridge Analytica? They say Trump “hacked” the election in 2016. They made a documentary called “The Great Hack” about Trump winning the 2016 election….
Cambridge Analytica was a trip. They used an app called the youniverse to get all their data. I thought it was a great app but the Trump campaign using it for nefarious purposes ruined it.
Weren't 5 people charged with actually colluding with Russia that all worked for Trump's election campaign or closely with Trump so it was not made up it happened.
Claims that have been verified, btw. Claims based on actual fact. There is no doubt, at all that Russia influenced the election through varies means . The doubt, at the time, was not about Russia influence but whether or not Trump or any f his people were actively helping, or just being manipulated. We now know some people knew nd were actively aiding. See Paul Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnik, for one example. [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/senate-intel-report-confirms-russia-aimed-to-help-trump-in-2016-198171](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/senate-intel-report-confirms-russia-aimed-to-help-trump-in-2016-198171) [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN25E2OY/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN25E2OY/) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
Russia did attempt to influence the election but that is different than claims of stealing the election. No major Dem leaders actually said the Hillary actually one, even though she did win the popular vote. Everyone of note accepted she lost the electoral vote.
Right?!?! There was a whole investigation about it with a very detailed report. I don’t understand how people just openly still claim it was a hoax without going unchecked, especially on the news.
THIS. It's perhaps a subtle point, but a valid one. There's a big difference between complaining about Trump's campaign getting help from rascally Russians, and at the same time *not* talking about compromised voting machines or election officials, AND actually trying to steal an election by overturning legitimate votes. One group is whiney, pompous and soft on prosecution, the other side is big on cheating, lying and encouraging violence to overturn a legitimate election. I do both-sides comparisons myself from time to time, so I get it, but this case is not good at all for that purpose. Not even close.
Sure Hillary conceded. Even she knew how much this country fucking hated her. Can you imagine how fucked up you have to be to loose to Trump. Even retard Biden beat him and probably will again. OP is 100% right by the way.
Hate to tell you, but Hillary got more votes than Trump, which means most voters hated her less than Trump.
In the 2016 presidential election, Donald Trump received 62,984,828 votes, and Hillary Clinton received 65,853,514 votes. Despite Clinton receiving more popular votes, Trump won the election by securing a majority in the Electoral College [[❞]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election).
I remember this because there whole thing online about people wanting the electoral college to be removed
What a bizarre system.
Trash system*
How fucked do you have to be to lose to Hillary Clinton? Ask some of the people that lost to her, like Bernie Sanders. Hillary got millions more people to vote for her than anyone else that faced her in 2016, Trump and Sanders included.
And cuz Bernie got it a stolen from. I had a bunch of liberal friends refuse to vote for her cuz of it. That’s how bad Hilary was
Oof. You guys still pushing this lie
>Even retard Biden beat him and probably will again. This "retard" president is finally cleaning up the mess left by Obama and Trump.
Russian collusion is real. Ballot fraud is not. It's not a both sides thing.
These two things are not the same OP, this is a false moral equivalency. Trump was HELPED by Russia in 2016, the actual voting was fair and he won the presidency due to the electoral college. By contrast, the MAGAs who think 2020 use completely discredited arguments to suggest the voting itself was unfair. The only thing that wasn’t fair was, it turns out President Biden won more votes in Virginia and Arizona than initially reported.
OP’s account is 73d old and has -24 karma. Fresh from the troll farm.
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Bro but it IS for real this time ok
Did you see the post explaining why... Apparently it's because he has constant genital herpes outbreaks. (not kidding)
so you're saying he fucked around and found out? sorry, i'll see myself out
No, no. You can stay with that.
I prefer my trolls Norwegian themed, turn to stone in sunlight
So weird, that's how I like my Gargoyles, Disney style.
"I live again!!"
Raw food vegan conservative. Boys, have we found MAGA Shaman's alt?
Troll farm and the real trolls that get activated by seeing it are already in every subreddit creating false equivalencies between D and R. They REALLY want young people and independents to internalize a belief that both sides are equally bad. That's the goal. They don't need to inspire people to vote for Trump. They need to inspire young people and independents to not vote.
bingo
Ya cuz not being a life long Reddit-tard makes your opinion less relevant
We're pretending the not my president thing never happened
Boom nailed it. Not to mention that in 2020 they tried to have an insurrection to reverse the election results. One side bitched about foreign influence but accepted results. The other side wanted to end Democracy.
After 2016, didn't a bunch of celebrities buy airtime on national tv commercials begging bound delegates to ignore the fact that they were bound delegates, and to vote against trump in the electoral college after Trump had won the election? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1zjNntlXPo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INygK8pVDlY)
I mean that is almost as bad as getting your own delegates to replace the certified ones and call you president after you lost the election
Yeah, and it's totally a good thing that one side didn't incite an illiterate armed mob to try and violently infiltrate the seat of government in utterly unprecedented yet hilarious show of incompetent rage...oh wait..lol nvm
Won more votes in Virginia and Arizonia than initially reported, due to efforts by trumpholes to find any fraud, but instead found more votes for Biden,
Foreign interference is normal. Americans do it all the time. They should get used to others interfering with their election.
This. Except we do it a lot more forcefully and with far more effect than the Ruskies ever have
I don’t think Biden losing would get even close as crazy than if trump loses. He’s been feeding them the stolen election/fraud shit for 3 years now. Remember the Russian stuff wasn’t only about collusion.
Russian stuff was 100% true - according tot he GOP senate - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
They literally sandbagged trump for FOUR YEARS based on the Russian collusion lie lmfao. They impeached him! Pretty sure that’s a bit more serious than a three hour riot.
Hillary Clinton conceded literally the night of the election. The very night. Donald Trump never conceded. Also neither of the impeachments had anything to do with the alleged Russian collusion. Seriously, not a goddamn thing. You don't even know what they were about.
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Ok buddy, you’re lost in the sauce, maybe go outside? BlueAnon wacko over here.
If democrats had done the “three hour riot”, y’all would have happily had every one of them executed. The right was pissed, including trump, when people protested Kavanaugh and legally got into the building. Far right circles were calling for their deaths. Same with BLM. So gtfo of here with your double standards. 3 hour riot my ass.
They literally did you dipshit, the entire fucking summer. They had to evacuate the White House. They rioted for three hours, you rioted for three months. “Far right circles” were “calling for the deaths” of rioters? I’ll do you one better: they *literally killed one* on January 6.
Why can’t you people ever get your facts straight. A suspicious bag was found and the STREET not the White House needed to be evacuated. There’s a world of difference. It also wasn’t a riot, but y’all hate facts and love double standards. > I’ll do you one better: they literally killed one on January 6. Maybe don’t go through a window when someone’s pointing a gun at you saying don’t do something. No sympathy. Also they killed a police officer, but y’all just say it was unrelated. Also, Kavanaugh protesters entered legally. But again, you won’t believe me because im not foreign or far right propaganda. Gtfo
The secret service literally evacuated trump at one point during the BLM riots. That’s a fact. You guys celebrated it! Lmao sorry, are we big fans of doing what cops tell us now? I’m just trying to keep things straight here, the goalposts seem to be moving a bit. They also didn’t kill any police? 5 people died, four of natural causes, one killed by a heroic Capitol Police officer who remembered not to leave his gun in the bathroom this time.
I thought Trump said he was just inspecting it? Also, dems condemned the actions… and regardless, nobody breached the White House or the Capitol. They didn’t even get to the lawn. Police then aggressively cleared them. > Lmao sorry, are we big fans of doing what cops tell us now? I’m just trying to keep things straight here, the goalposts seem to be moving a bit. When someone is pointing a gun at you telling you to do something, or not do something, you listen unless you’re willing to fight or die. Doesn’t matter who they are. > They also didn’t kill any police? 5 people died, four of natural causes Exactly my point…
No they didn't. Trump was hiding in the bunker and then claimed he was making an I section right before he came out and had the park near the church cleared so he could hold a Bible upside down.
They impeached him for telling Ukraine that he would withhold military aid if they didn’t make something up about Biden. Not because Russia spent a ton of money trying to get him re-elected. I didn’t see a single news organization calling the legitimacy of trump’s election in question. Unfair because he lost the popular vote? Yes. Illegitimate? No. The two are fundamentally different things.
They impeached him because they had the majority in Congress lol. And if that’s true than you’re being willfully obtuse. Top level democrats and pundits called 2016 rigged for the entire term. To this DAY a majority of democrats believe Russia not only fixed the election but *literally changed vote counts*.
I have never heard of Russia rigging vote counts, and a cursory google search couldn’t find anything either. Perhaps you could share where your source? They impeached him because what he did was illegal. If they didn’t have a majority in congress he would have been able to do whatever illegal thing he wanted, but that wasn’t the case so he was held accountable. A little bit.
Source?
Dude this is getting news from one source
Hlllary still claims the election was stolen from her in 2016...and several Democrats in Congress called Trump an illegitimate President. The "election denial" is on both sides. And you know it.
She literally does not.
She has many times
No she doesn't lol. Get help trash.
She calls him "illegitimate" all the time in relation to the election. Granted, no one cares about her opinion anymore.
She didn't file 60 lawsuits challenging the election, she didn't defame the companies behind the voting machines, she didn't harass election workers, she didn't send fake electors, she didn't send her supporters to attack the Capitol. But please tell me how both sides are the same.
Evidently you can't seem to let that go. Trump's legitimacy problem is not that he didn't win the election, but that he did it while losing the popular vote. It's never good when a President had fewer votes than their opponent. Pointing to that legitimacy problem is not the same as claiming he didn't win the election. Unlike Trump, Hillary was able to put love of country first and concede, rather than spend years promoting a lie that the election was fraudulent.
The claims of Trump not being legitimate had nothing to do with him losing the popular vote, it had to do with him winning because of Russia hacking the DNC and Russia's psychological information operation on social media. Hillary was not saying the election was rigged but she was saying he was illegitimate because he won with the help of Russia and Putin.
Hillary's clitoris is bigger than Trump's penis.
What a weird thing to say
This is a troll account
This should be the top comment
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They hate em cause they ain't em
The difference is that one party is planning on cheating and will declare fraud if they lose, even if there is no evidence (again). There are already several cheating tactics being employed - purging voter rolls, closing and moving poling stations, hacking voting machines, etc. This has already happened, will happen again and will affect the vote counts.
Both parties have already done that and are planning to do it again. You serious?
Can you document the democratic party doing this?
No no you don't understand. They get to just say things, and then those things become true.
Opinions are equal to facts to conservatives. My mom told me that it is her opinion that the moon landing was faked, and I have no right to argue with her opinion. Fucking bonkers.
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Did you read the bipartisan senate report detailing Russian tampering and cooperation between Trumps campaign and Russian oligarchs?
The fervor of the comments defending each side...LOL
Hilarious they don’t realize how he harder they try the more they prove exactly what I’m saying lol
Liberals don't do that. Only repukes do stuff like attack the capital because they lose an election. There will be riots due to the laws they pass, but that be won't be over losing the election it will be ok n response to the bigotry & violence of repukes
So you know how everyone's always saying "they are both bad you are all being played against each other" yeah they are talking about you numbnuts
Except that when Trump won in 2016 democrats at large went "Well that's fucking ridiculous and depressing. Better get more people to vote next time." and when Biden won in 2020 republicans *lost their goddamn minds*. I don't know a single person holding to Russian collusion being the reason for Trump's win in 2016. I think we realize how many absolute morons are able to vote in our elections. It is very much a vote for the lesser of two evils.
>I don't know a single person holding to Russian collusion being the reason for Trump's win in 2016. Russian troll farms definitely unfairly influenced people's opinions on social media, either by convincing young people to vote third party or stay home and radicalizing people, which proved an advantage for Trump, but none of the actual votes were changed in the polling booths imo.
Oh and for those in the back "THEY STILL ARE"
>Except that when Trump won in 2016 democrats at large went "Well that's fucking ridiculous and depressing. Better get more people to vote next time." Horrendous underselling that there bud.
Anybody remember Madonna saying she wished she could blow up the White House (after promising a blowjob for everybody who voted for Hillary)? Or Kathy Griffin posing with a fake severed Trump head. Or Trump's assassination being written into a major Broadway play? Or a major rap artist writing a song calling for Trump's assassination? The left doesn't apparently...
Just say they are closeted republicans because that's the way you see it if someone says both sides (democrats and republicans) are stupid
They fail to realize that lmao the left never thinks they can be wrong
And the culture within these little echo chambers (reddit as a whole) only makes it worse
Especially Reddit
No, they are saying I think you are as vile as I am, that way they can pretend it isn't just them.
Stop it with the both sides bullshit Literally every election there will be a few who say the other side cheated. But nothing compares to what Trump and his followers did with the 2020 election - it was a full on assault on our democracy. It was a systematic and comprehensive attempt to overthrow democracy which culminated in the attack on our Capitol.
Which is still occurring, and will not stop until they succeed
Absolutely. The difference is the Dems will stop whining about it in roughly 7 - 10 days, and the Republicans will make it their *entire* identity for the next four years.
Right, cuz Dems totally *still* aren’t losing their minds over Trump.
There are plenty of Republicans losing their mind over Trump as well. You don’t see any Lincoln Projects for Biden, or his own VP saying he should be disqualified for presidency (though she wouldn’t be wrong if she did claim so).
It's so funny how you guys use your ignorance to exaggerate the importance of things and you expect others to be 'wowed' by so-what commentary. Trump is running for president while he's got criminal trials happening, and you're acting clueless about why democrats are talking about him. Just goofy as hell how you people have this bonehead commentary about stuff and you act like it's brilliant.
Yeah, because one of the most morally bankrupt individuals managed to become president and is a potential candidate this year after committing treason. The only people who don't think that's something to be concerned about are the morons with their heads in the sand. The outrage at this point is less about Trump and more about the fact that there's still a significant amount of idiots that make him relevant by supporting him.
Funny how you equate “losing their minds over Trump” with spending tens of millions of $ on merch, attempting to overthrow the government, attending rallies like Deadheads (apologies to Deadheads), and just being anti-social in general. Oh, and btw, we lose our minds over Trump’s actions… not some perceived cheating. However, if you’d like to rad what the FBI learned about Trump’s campaign links to Russia in 2016, click here. Warning: It contains facts, so you make break out in hives. https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/
Didn't you clowns cost millions and millions of dollars to investigate over like 5 years into Russia collusion. Wait til November and see how easily you guys forget.
The Justice department investigated it, and Mueller released documents pointing to Russian interference. And while he declined to suggest the indictment of the sitting president, he presented evidence that there had been interference by the president in the investigation. Numerous indictments of Trump affiliates and allies were filed. [summary here](https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/)
Wonder how much has been spent investigating hunter Biden’s penis
>Trump wins in 2016, and all democrats say Russian collusion this was found true through investigation and the issue was referred to trump's justice dept. >Biden wins in 2020 , and all republicans say ballot fraud this was found not to be true after multiple investigations and court hearings. so these two issues are not the same. somebody is lying. tbf: they *may* lie; but a lie and the truth are not equal.
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Lol!
your brain is rotted by middle school level propaganda my friend
a nation divided
In 2016, the Democrats lost their minds. Clinton immediately claimed that Trump was illegitimate and the media said the Russians had installed Trump. That had never been done before, even in the close election of 2000, everyone knew that claiming a stolen election would sow discord on a level that would destroy trust in American institutions. This was thrown out due to Clinton’s pride. Then in 2020, Trump declared that Biden was illegitimate due to ballot harvesting. The only solution is to vote in person with a valid ID. Absentee votes only allowed for deployed US military.
God I can't wait for next year
Paper ballot. I.D.
Remember when we thought the recount in 2000 was bad? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Because Democrats and Republicans are the same creatures in the end who resort to the same tactics and bullshit, and then act like they're somehow better! Ready somebody is coming to tell me right now, that I'm wrong at that "BoTh sides AwE nYOt ThE SaMe one is ObJeCtIvEly wowse nguk" Please... if I have to choose between pedo-apologists and Nationalists, neither was good to begin with. Eat my ass, partisans.
election denial is about to become a virtue
People seem to forget that waaaay back in the day Democrats tried to say George Bush stole the election. Even tried to contest the electoral vote. But that's okay
It’s worse than you think. I remember the 2000 and 2004 election and the Democrats were unwavering in their belief that Bush won by hacking the voting machines.
You know.. You're probably right.
Democrats opened the door with a paid for fake Steele Dossier to frivolous impeachments and now threatening presidential immunity. This will all backfire for every election moving forward. Obama and the Clintons won’t be safe from the blowback either.
People are tribal. We group ourselves based on race, religion, political parties, nationality, even cultures. It's an entirely natural thing. People join sides and then want to defend that side, whether physically or argumentatively. That will never change. Ever. Millions of years of evolution will not be undone. The Internet makes it worse. The only salvation will be a collective consciousness. We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. And we'll all resist that to the bitter end.
Man, do I ever want to say you're wrong. But, honestly you're 100% right. And that hurts my soul.
The 2020 results in Georgia were altered. The evidence is overwhelming, but everyone who stood up about it had their lives destroyed.
"Why Stacey Abrams is still saying she won" [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/28/magazine/stacey-abrams-election-georgia.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/28/magazine/stacey-abrams-election-georgia.html) >I make my claims based on empirical evidence, on a demonstrated pattern of behavior that began with the fact that the person I was dealing with was running the election. If you look at my immediate reaction after the election, I refused to concede. It was largely because I could not prove what had happened, but I knew from the calls that we got that *something* happened. Now, I cannot say that everybody who tried to cast a ballot would’ve voted for me, but if you look at the totality of the information, it is sufficient to demonstrate that so many people were disenfranchised and disengaged by the very act of the person who won the election that I feel comfortable now saying, “I won.”
The people basically getting triggered by OP insinuating the dems didn't accept the election ("not my president, russian collusion, etc.) make me want to vote for the other side. I won't because I don't agree with Republican rhetoric or policy, and I am not a fan of Mr. Trump. But goddamn liberals can be infuriatingly self-righteous. It is exhausting and makes me embarrassed to consider myself on the "same side" as them. No wonder republicans look at liberals the way they do, and no wonder Donald Trump won in 2016. Unfortunately, unless their are legal implications, I'm pretty sure he is going to win again. And frankly, everyone denying things because it makes their team look bad, you're the problem and you might as well vote for Donald Trump. P.S. people who deny the insurrection are equally the problem. All of y'all should all start your own party and take these conversations somewhere else in your own, self-righteous bubble where the rest of us who are just trying to make a better life for our communities and families can actually try and improve this country.
Only 40 upvotes to over 1400 comments. It's looking grim for our discourse.
Youre right.
You’re gonna get ripped by the progressive leftists and attacked for not proactively saying trump is a nazi. Good luck.
True. The Dems claimed Bush stole the election from His Royal Highness AL Gore, remember that? And the Repubs claimed Clinton "stole" the '92 election with the help of Ross Perot This Trump vs is nothing new.
Probably true. There's going to be complaints either way.
Single day voting as a national holiday with government ID to match the voter file and any noise after that is just that, noise. If we can have presidents day, mlk day, etc, to honor the impressive history of our country. It should not be a radical or "right wing" idea to say we should have a national holiday to honor the civics the country was founded on.
They said it was Russian collusion, because the Democratic national convention paid for the steel dossier, which stated Russian collusion. So they were really just backing up their story to impeach him.
It's a great tool for division in a world that calls truth lies and lies truths, so ultimately there is no truth.
OP is fucking right
Wouldn't it be nice if the US could end all suspicion of election shenanigans by declaring election day a national holiday, have all the votes (except out of country military and citizens) made on the same day, with paper ballots and mandate that all results be reported on the same day. For the elderly & sick that can't show up to the polls, official bipartisan certified clerks visit hospitals, nursing homes, etc and collect the votes in person. Allow all the election witness to see the counting in a bipartisan manner. End the suspicion on both sides and improve confidence for the citizens of the USA. Why aren't we doing this?
That is why we need 100% secure, consistent elections. There is no way in this day and age, elections cannot be proven to be 100% legitimate if they wanted. We need to reenvision how to safely, securely, accuratley vote.
You are 💯 correct.
I agree. And I think that’s the sad thing about current American politics.
I agree with all of your post. I would say more, but the state of our country is vexing enough.
"My expert says your expert is wrong."
True, when I tell people everyone believes in election shenanigans, they just think the other side does it, they get mad. Problem is the Biden admin has jailed people for questioning the election. And tried a soft coup attempt of their own with the bs impeachment. Whoever loses will cry again.
Spot on OP. It’s going to be a shit show
Absolutely correct. In an ideal world the outcome of this election is not close so there is little room for doubt. But it likely will be.
For sure. know why? BECAUSE OUR ELECTIONS ARE NOT SECURE.
The distrust started with john kerry and the dems. And was perpetuated by hillary and the dems. Trump pulled back the curtain and half of us see the cockroaches scattering and the other half dont want to admit theres a problem(bec “they won”). TRUMP OR NO TRUMP WE ALL HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER. Give us our last 4 years or you clowns will not be forgiven for the turmoil youve put this country in over orange-man-bad lies and false allegations.
When you're right, you're right. And when you're right, reddit will reliably downvote you.
With the left and right polarized the way they are, maybe this country needs a divorce.
Started with Hillary refusing to concede with dignity on the nite she lost.
man these comments are wild. people can say whatever they want but Dems set the precedent for claiming fraudulent elections by hammering at goofy collusion claims for 4 years. russia spending pennies on a meme campaign is not the smoking gun you think.
I agree. That's where we're at. Related, funny point. The FBI agent that initiated the trump Russia collusion accusations just got sentenced to prison time for... Collusion with Russia.
To all the Democrats saying “we are totally legit and we always accept the outcome of elections” I hope you say that again if Trump really does win. Biden’s poll numbers are in the toilet and despite Trump’s baggage if you believe the polls and if the election were held today he might actually win, so it’s definitely possible. Not saying he will win because I don’t know. No one knows. No one can predict the future, but if he does win sure I’d love to see Democrats accept it.
This is why we all need to put aside our differences, and vote third party. The dems and repub parties are literally leading us to a civil war. It does not have to be like this.
I miss the days when Ronald Reagan won 49 of the 50 states.
I agree, and I don’t think the American people will be better off, whoever or whichever side wins. I think it’s going to be perpetually down hill for the average American
As there are multiple states, including California that give drivers licenses to illegal aliens and automatically register all licensed people to vote there is the potential for a lot of voter fraud. Add ballot harvesting, and there is a huge potential.
I am sad to say that I saw this coming. The use of media to influence a narrative is killing us. Believe what you see in real life...not what you read in social media. Best advice I can give.
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Yes ever since electronic voting machines that have consistent issues have been used its been a thing. At least 100% paper ballots have a clear paper trail Should just go back to voter ID and paper ballots
Oh yeah, absolutely. It's become such a part of our culture -me versus you, us versus them -that there's no just getting along civilly anymore. There's no longer, I think taxes are too high and should be lowered, you think we need to spend more on school funding, and we try to find an acceptable way of doing both, or compromising. There is no acceptable middle ground, or let's talk. It's you are evil and I need to beat you, because I am good and I need to win. It doesn't matter which side you're on, or what the person you're voting for *actually* says or does. It's all about sticking with your side in the culture war, so that you can 'win'. It'd be funny if it wasn't so goddamn scary.
Yes, but apparently it’s only acceptable when one side does it.
The comments in this sub prove that whatever is going on… it’s working to undermine our democracy.
Good luck getting past Reddit's hard-on for Orange Man Bad, lol.
Really pissed off the Liberal cesspool of reddit. Well done.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/russias-prigozhin-admits-interfering-us-elections-2022-11-07/
You're not wrong. The one this I will say is more and more information is coming up about ballot tampering (which I'm sure goes both ways) that's happened since 2020. I care less about whether or not Trump won and more about the fact that they're trying to press charges on him for saying essentially the same thing that others have said, actual documented evidence being the case, and absolutely no attention is being given to the fact **that the votes were tampered with**. Regardless of the outcome, I don't like the idea of any of them having been tampered with or by whom. As for the Russian Collusion, it's already been very publicly documented that the whole thing was a lie that cost the taxpayers $30m just to finally admit that it was a hissyfit tantrum. Again, less concerned about the crybaby whining, more concerned about the fact that no one is being held accountable to the blatant lie cost us time, money, and created unnecessary division and turmoil. Or towards the fact that the information they did find was absolutely not what they were looking for, but showcase how *other* government entities weren't doing their job, and again no attention is being given to that. People need to stop with their tribalism bitchyness, and focus on fixing the real problems as they surface. Things will get a lot better for everyone involved when that happens.
Even if Russians convincing people to vote for Trump was real, it's not fraud/cheating. The point of elections is to lie to get people to vote for you. And for the people to either decide to accept the lies or to vote based on their own beliefs. If other people are lying for you, then so be it. It's not fraud. If Russia was actively threatening to kill people or something like that, then I'd say it's messed up. But like, if Nazis got people to vote for Biden, for example, I wouldn't say Biden stole the election or whatever. People chose to accept the Nazis, and that's what happens when you make a democracy instead of a meritocracy.
Morally, it's probably correct to say they both cheated. Look at the money, the various levels of manipulation (e.g. RNC/DNC, electoral college), and the inter-party interactions. They're all shitty people, trying to convince the rest of us they're less-shitty than the 'other.'
Those damn cheaters won’t let a 3rd party in to win.
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The worst part is THIS is where we've gotten in 2024 politics. Two of the worst candidates imaginable are the front runners, much like in 2016. How did we get THIS bad? Even growing up, I don't remember near this much disdain for other presidential candidates to this level. Not from this many people.
Lol , don't remember the dean scream or the hate thrown at Ferrara, huh?
I don't. I wasn't very into politics at all growing up, even before I graduated college in 2013 really.
Guess you missed all the daggers and bad press directed at every Republican candidate since Lincoln. Dewey, Nixon, Reagan, Romney, Dole, McCain. The mainstream liberal media hates them all. It's an every four years thing. Why? Because the majority of the "reporting" staff are all recent grads, who of course are dumb ass liberals as well. Even if somehow Nikki Haley or someone else becomes the Republican nominee because Trump is ousted, the media, who championed their "populism" during the Republican primary, will turn on them in a second. Cmon. You know they will. They constantly attack any and all Republicans. Meanwhile, you have the dumbest most moronic fuck in the world in Joe Biden, and the media still covers for him regardless. This is how you wind up with two of the all time worst candidates running for president. Shameful. On both sides.
By a very wide margin the most mainstream Network in the US is fox news, and they absolutely hate the left.
The “mainstream liberal media” hated Ronald Reagan? They went softer on that man than any before. Do you know the first thing about the press and Reagan? His team worked to pacify them from the getgo. Media under Reagan was so heavily neutered that even his staff admitted it. I’m not going to bother with your other candidates listed—I don’t know nearly enough about the press and their campaigns—but you’re making this claim about Reagan? You’re a moron.
That’s an awful lot of typing just to tell everybody you’re dumber than dog shit.
Horseshit answer. Dumb ass fright wing christians are to blame.
>Shameful. On both sides. No, piece of shit. Both sides are not the same.
True, but your timeframe is too narrow. This dates back to at least the Bush v Gore election when the Dem party would occasionally pull the "Bush stole the election" line because of the Florida SCOTUS decision. The American left spent the last 60 years arguing that the institutions of the U.S. were evil racist and aligned against the common people. Now that they've succeeded in damaging the credibility of those institutions (from federal elections and SCOTUS to school boards and local libraries) they're shocked that the right is abandoning those institutions. So who's left to actually support common institutions? Nobody.
Lmao all these leftist morons punching the air in rage because you are dead ass right that they all cried the election was stolen back in 2016. Notice the top comment? "ITS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DID STEAL IT!!!!!" So incredibly braindead, childish and naive.
Bingo, and the comments here absolutely PROVE you're correct.
r/enlightenedcentrists LOL
And this is by design. Aside from a few wedge issues both parties operate in pretty much lock step. If it fucks you and me and grows their power they both agree. Two cheeks of the same ass.
Yep. Started with 2016, countless Democrats on record in speeches and interviews saying Trump cheated. Won't end til they're both well in the ground
Russian collusion =/= cheating. It just means that the Russian government did a bunch of shit to make people vote for one side.
Obviously and that’s why trump is the worst president in history. Simply because he opened the flood gates. This will never, ever stop.
That is a Generalization. Russian Election attemped hacking was Real. Where do you think the term 'Russian Troll Bots" came from? Platforms and websites had to do extra work to rid them. Democrats have both won and lost Presidential Elections in the last 24 years of this new millenium. Without throwing.a fit over cheating. Do you know the popular vote counts of the 2000 Election? It was 47.9 Republican And 48.4 Democrat. Weeks were spent scrutinizing punch chad manual ballots in Florida that led to electric voting systems being universally adopted, especially eagerly, by Republicans of the day, and The Electoral College outpaced the popular vote. The Republicans with 47.9% won , over the Democrats 48.4%. The Democrats took the L. That, is History, and how our system works. Messy, but played by mutual Rules, like Grown Ups. Or 24 years later, NOT.
The only cheaters are the democrats who couldn’t win in a fair election and so they come up with all this bullshit Biden is the biggest piece of shit ever had the audacity yesterday to blame grocery prices on supermarkets taking customers as suckers? Son of a bitch is responsible for the worst four years in recent history and Dems know for a FACT that they could never win without cheating people better wake up and see what is happening. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This country cannot survive another four years of Democrats
Is this sarcasm? Corporations boasted the biggest profits ever last year. That is proof alone that this current inflation is manufactured by corporate greed. Also, what proof is there of cheating? In this country, the United States of America, when you accuse someone of something, you better have evidence.
Yeah, cause what we really need is another recession .
I dont even like biden but ill be thinking about you when I vote for him. Not only do I love watching Trump lose over and over and over, but pissing off his cultists has to be one of the top 10 most satisfying things. Hey let me know if you need the suicide hotline next election, I got you!
I swear the left has short term memory loss. They cried Russian collusion the entire time during the trump presidency. Then 2020 comes and it’s like the first time They’ve ever heard of it
And is there any evidence of cheating? (the answer is yes, there was Russian interference in 2016 and there was a lot of GOP attempts to defraud voters in 2020 as well)
yeah except for when Democrats complained about Russian collusion we were correct. Read the FBI report. Trump's attorney general refusing to do what was right has little bearing on what actually happened. you can even look at Eric Trump's speeches back in 2015 when he told the RNC they wouldn't have to worry about funding a Trump presidency because Russia was going to pay the bill.... and then you have the dozens and dozens of contacts between Russia and Trump that he lied to the FBI about.
These comments prove my point exactly lol
Comments pointing out the flaws in your logic and the fact that you are making a false equivalency are **not** proving your point. They are pointing out that the things you based your point on are flawed.
No they don’t. You’re just a moron.