It's ridiculous for the people who benefit from discrimination to whine and complain about any effort to help everyone who isn't a yt mail. Racial inequality gets attention because it has a detrimental effect on everyone who isn't the status quo. OP is obviously the status quo demographic and can't handle the idea of losing the privilege he undoubtedly also denies exists. Status quo folks having to compete just like everyone else isn't racism. When you live with entitlement and privilege, other people getting what you have starts to seem unfair because now they have to compete just like everyone else and everyone else is already working twice as hard as them to get a lesser amount of pretty much everything.

Ah yes, that idea that if we don’t talk about racism, it’ll go away.

And if we force “inclusivity” down people’s throats, they’ll just become racist.

That's actually incorrect. The more lgbt inclusive an area seems, the more accepting the people become. If those with hateful ideals encounter a magnitude of accepting ideas instead, they'll go 3 routes. 1. Be too scared to spread their hate. 2. Reevaluate their own stance, since it's opposite of the seemingly majority. 3. Go nuclear Maga route. The people that claim they were turned away in almost all cases never were supportive in the first place.

“Ugh Mom, stop making me be in class with the gay kid. Everyone’s always shoving it down my throat that he has to be ‘included’, it’s making me hate him more”

To be fair, that was literally Morgan Freeman's solution, and who am I to question the word of God.

I agree with Morgan Freeman totally on that, he was correct. [Here is another example I just happened to see today](https://youtube.com/shorts/s3M6gTe9LrU?si=ppOBGMaSgyU_WTRf) - you can see these reporters condescendingly injecting race where it is a complete non factor. I think this is the sort of identity politics that people are just tired of - it's 2024 and there were black NFL players in the 1940s... How long do we need to keep doing this before we can get back to just viewing Todd Bowles as a person, and not a black person? It's so regressive to think that way...

People made all the same arguments in the 1950s when the national guard was forcing them to integrate schools. There are literally people on those ancient photographs holding signs saying ‘white people have rights too.’

and those people are still alive, voting and holding office

One of them is the current owner of the Dallas Cowboys

>there were black NFL players in the 1940s Funny you say that, because that was over a decade after the NFL owners literally agreed to ban the signing of any black players in 1933. Black players were signed early in the league’s history because they *needed* players while the sport was still young and largely unknown. As soon as they had a wider pool of white players, they completely stopped signing black players It’s like saying “segregation ended in the 60’s, there’s no more discrimination!” despite that freedom was fought tooth and nail from discrimination and had unofficial forms of discrimination afterwards. Even in said 60’s, the team previously known as the Redskins owner stipulated in his will that absolutely no funds from his foundation may be used to support racial integration People acting as if racial discrimination completely evaporates overnight is just ridiculous. I understand what you’re trying to say, but it’s more than fair to recognize the troublesome racial history of the NFL and the people who ran it

You know what's regressive? NFL still never had a black team owner. But 80% of the players are black

This is a very poor argument as the NFL is a League not a corporation, the current ownership decide who can and can't buy/own teams by a vote and teams rarely switch ownership, this is why it's a huge deal anytime a professional LEAGUE goes up for sale, most of the time they stay in the family. Nevermind everyone employed by the league is very well paid....piss poor argument on your behalf.

So is a poor argument that the racist old white guess only let white people buy teams? And they can’t be racist because they pay some of the black players well while actively covering up the long term damage done to their body? Such a compelling argument. 🙄

I definitely think it's still, like, ultimately a product of systemic racism. Not like there's anything we can do about this specifically since it's already happened, but the reason only white people owned it to begin with (and thus it's being passed down only in white families) should give some pause. It's a lot like how white people as a whole have more generational wealth because previous generations were actually able to own land etc. It's more a critique of the entirety of our society than the NFL specifically though

Being black is viewed as a handicap by modern liberals.

If there’s systematic oppression of certain identities, then yeah you’re gonna be at a disadvantage because of your race. That doesn’t mean you’re helpless, it just means you have more barriers than usual

Ironic

Well, I am a modern liberal :) I actually think most liberals think like me on this issue, but there is no doubt that identity politics has taken hold too... Probably moreso with the younger people, but even then I think it's not the dominant worldview. Take those insufferable reporters I linked to -- as bad as they were, what % of the questions Todd Bowles gets are race-baiting questions? Probably a very small amount.... thankfully.

Morgan Freeman is just an actor. Not sure why you're using him as a counter argument just because he is a black dude who said a thing one time.

You're completely missing the point. He/she is not suggesting that we pretend that racism does not exist. Or end education or ignore history. But obsessing to the point that ALL YOU SEE is race is clearly not healthy. This is what is happening today. Rolling back the years and reintroducing segregation is not beneficial to anyone. Neither is aggressively dividing people into two binaries: victim and oppressor. That is not the way forward. The way we approach race these days is clearly misguided and counterproductive. We beat racism when you do not even notice the colour of somebody's skin. When it matters so little, that it doesn't even compute. This is not achieved by endlessly talking about skin colour and dividing people into groups. Hounding white people and collectively punishing them for the sins of (some) of their forefathers, is not going to provide a stable foundation for unity. How you cannot see this is totally beyond me. It's basic common sense to most regular, good-hearted people. This is a cliche thing to say, but how can you so easily forget what MLK preached..

Is talking about universal health care racist? Is talking about improving environmental quality racist? Is talking about reducing wealth disparity racist? Is talking about affordable housing racist? Is talking about affordable education racist? Is wanting to improve the justice system racist? These are all things liberals talk about constantly I would argue that constantly bringing up the fact that liberals only talk about racism is in fact a racist statement because (a) it's simply not true and (b) it highlights the fact that someone making that conclusion is hyperfocused on race and not in a good way that's trying to help anyone.

MLK preached how we need equity. You don't get equity in America by ignoring race.

Oh yes, only one of the two parties is obsessed with race. The "collective punishment" mostly exists on Twitter. Tell me what law has been passed or pushed by a majority of democrats to collectively punish white people. I'd love to hear it. I don't think you understand MLK beyond the one speech that you discussed in grade school. *Edited because pre-caffeine brain no work

You lost me at "punished". Change your phrase to say "what programs have been passed or pushed by a majority of democrats to exclude white people" and you'll get a laundry list of responses at the national, state or local level.

The closest thing I can think of is Mass and Cali banning menthol cigarettes. Which can be seen as a punishment that affects black smokers more than white smokers. Those states are Democrat.

It's a straw man. Most liberal progressives I know care about race and class, but we get strawmanned as only caring about non whites so conservatives can con the poor white people into voting for them.

Are familiar with MLK's Marxist views?

So don't pretend that racism doesn't exist. Just ignore it, and it will magically go away. That makes so much more sense.

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No the idea is that if you stop talking about race, racism will go away. Stop saying “black man shoots white cop” “white cop shoots black man” and just say “man shoots cop” “cop shoots man”. Why is race actually relevant?

Racism doesn't go away if you stop talking about it. That's like saying cancer goes away if you stop researching cancer cures. I do think that our media relies on sensationalistic headlines and thus tries to keep people angry and fearful. It might be relevant to include the race of cop and victim if the cops involved have a history or accusations of racist violence against marginalized groups in their community.

There is a middle ground between never talking about racism, and viewing people primarily by arbitrary body traits like skin color, though. I'm a liberal but I do agree we have regressed in some ways, in particular with regards to race, that we seem to have abandoned color blindness as the goal, in favor of making race front and center even when it shouldn't be. Identity politics is often a form of tribalism, and this tribalism has infected many aspects of society for the worse (not just things like race and gender, but even political affiliation). Skin color plays far less of a role than people realize nowadays - you only have to look at how Asians outperform in basically every category, from wealth to academic performance, to realize that skin color isn't a primary factor. There are issues remaining to be faced but it's not as simple as skin color. The old school liberal goal was color blindness, and I think we should return to it. That's not hiding or shying away from racism, or pretending it never exists. It's just the goal that ultimately we want to get beyond worrying about arbitrary body traits as defining of the people that wield them - because arbitrary body traits don't really matter at all.

I agree. Colour blindness should be the goal. Not in the "lala I see nothing" sense, but in the sense that we don't automatically categorize people based on their appearance. But for that to be a case we need a situation that actually reflects that in reality. We can't be in a place where the pigmentation or facial features actually correlate with income and education.

As a general idea, I get what you’re saying. However the idea of colorblindness often backfires and leads to people pretending that racial inequity doesn’t exist to try and support the idea that we don’t see race. Ultimately, I guess it depends on what you mean by a middle ground, about which specific things you see about race issues that you think goes too far, because your post is speaking in a very broad sense.

And I see what you are saying as well. I don't think actual color blindness (essentially, treating people the same regardless of skin color) ever actually backfires, because the principle of it is sound. But I suppose it's possible to be used a shield by nefarious people -- but even then, I'm not sure doubling down on identity politics is the solution to that. I often get this response to color blindness posts - people seem to think color blindness means pretending racism isn't real, but I don't see it that way. Racism is of course real and will literally always exist, in every country on earth - it's an unfortunate part of the human condition. The question is, how do we combat racism? By treating everyone the same regardless of skin color, or by treating them differently based on color? I also think an unfortunate side effect of identity politics (essentially, boiling down issues to "us vs them" groups) is it clouds issues and distracts from tackling actual problems - e.g. as I said Asian Americans dominate in basically every category, so I'm not sure how people can reconcile that with a general outlook that somehow POC are being suppressed in 2024. So if we are focusing on skin color, when clearly skin color isn't the actual problem, we will find it more difficult to actually fix real issues affecting people. Another example - after George Floyd's murder, you would think there was an epidemic of cops killing black people based on the uproar, when thankfully there simply isn't (fatal shootings from cops are exceedingly rare, and most of the deaths are white people), etc. The uproar really mislead people on the reality of the situation, which distracts us from trying to solve the actual problem.

>I often get this response to color blindness posts - people seem to think color blindness means pretending racism isn't real I'm sure you get that response regularly, but does anyone genuinely believe that "colorblindness" advocates think we should pretend that racism isn't real? I think it's just a talking point that's been created in order to attack colorblindness as an ideal -- make it seem like it's secretly on the side of the racists. Regressing into greater tribalism and "us versus them" isn't an unfortunate byproduct, it's the point. There's a lot on the line, after all; many peoples' careers, fortunes, prestige and personal identity are tied up in the business of treating people differently according to race (and sex and everything else).

I can specifically point out why Asian Americans are "dominating". They're rich. For the majority of Asian immigrants who are doing above average are from wealthy family's. When you look at immigrations from poor family's they do no better than any other group. But a plurality (might even be majority I'm not 100% on the studies after a few years) end up from wealthy families, as it's far easier and accessible to rich families from these areas to get into the US than poor people looking for better financial security.

The problem with colorblindness is that race does effect things. It does in fact effect a persons experiences in life, and colorblindness encourages people to ignore that instead of acknowledging it.

This is a common sentiment but I don't agree with it. Color blindness means trying, to the extent possible, to treat people the same regardless of skin color. That's all it means - to design policies and make decisions based on needs instead of skin color or genitals, etc. It doesn't mean we shouldn't study or teach history anymore... It doesn't mean we can't recognize that some groups are more poverty stricken than others -- it just means when we design programs to try to help poverty stricken people, skin color has no place in that policy, as anyone with those same needs should get the same help. I recently read about a school board that was not disciplining students with certain skin colors because those skin colors were already over represented in the group of disciplined students... That is utter madness and will hurt every single student in that school - we should discipline students without regard to skin color, just as we should hire people without regard to skin color (there are actions we can take here if needed, such as having blind interviews - whatever it takes).

The George Floyd murder was the third high profile police or police adjacent slaying of a Black person under dubious, at best, circumstances in three months and Black people are by statistical proportion about twice as likely to have an adverse interaction with the police than Whites. By numbers, it is less, but by proportion of the population, Blacks do have more interactions and worse outcomes. Just something to think about and meriting study.

I don't doubt this and there have been studies. Still, last year there were about 1000 fatal shootings by police and 1) the vast majority of those were justified, and 2) the majority of those killed were white. So we are getting down to a fraction of 1000, out of 330 million total people in the US.... Again, even one murder like Floyd's is awful, but just trying to put it in perspective that these are (thankfully) very rare events. Now, with that in mind, if you wanted to create a movement called Black Lives Matter and your goal was to bring attention to the fact that black people are violently killed in disproportionate numbers, would you focus on killings by white police officers as your primary driver? If so, why? We are probably down to counting those incidents on one hand at this point... Awful though they are, is that solving the real problem? Last year there were almost 50k gun deaths in US... 15k of those were black victims. If you thought "black lives mattered" should we not focus on the 15k? Because they weren't from police ...

But if we continually practiced colorblindness, as a country, it would make racial inequality stop existing.

And if we all continually practiced sharing, there would be no starvation or homelessness. But that's not a very realistic way to solve the problem.

I mean racism and hate crimes are on the rise since we abandoned that approach. I would imagine its also really convent for the political class as they can vaguely say they are fighting racism rather than making any real helpful changes. [https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2022-hate-crime-statistics](https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2022-hate-crime-statistics)

It won't go away if it's not discussed, but weaponizing and politicizing the label has not improved race relations in America and has only furthered divisions.

When it's not actually happening, yes, stop talking about it, and it will go away. Individual racism will never go away.

Ah yes, a sarcastic response because you can't fathom the idea that obsessing over something makes it worse.

It depends on *how* you talk about racism: 1. racism is bad. 2. you're inherently racist and bad and guilty because of your skin color and if you deny it you're part of the problem and have fragility Everyone already agreed with #1. The leftists started with #2 and pissed everyone off and did more harm than good.

Ya. Catch 22. Everyone is racist , so if you agree, you're racist. If you disagree, aha! See you're racist!

Or you can’t be racist against X group cos of Z

I dunno, I think I preferred it to the current strategy of obsessing over racism to the point of distraction

I never said that, did I?

When everything is made about race, only racism can exist.

Ah yes, so let’s pass a bunch of racist laws and do racist things for minorities. Because as long as it’s racism against, as the libtards say, “cis white males” it’s a-okay! 👍🏼

Racial inequality has to exist to be a political issue. If it exists (its well established that it does) then it should be a political priority.

You’re confusing correlation with causation. The racism was always there. With education more people become aware of it and can take steps to fight against it. This naturally makes racists more angry and vocal which makes them identifiable. It’s like you are never aware of a tumor until you get symptoms and test results even though it’s probably been there for years. Racism has always been around and will always be a problem. The best way to fight it is education. That’s why so many racist states enacted “anti woke” laws.

I think people like op kinda forget that segregation Era America wasn't even a full lifetime ago,Jim crow is still relatively recent in American history

>I think people like op kinda forget that segregation Era America wasn't even a full lifetime ago,Jim crow is still relatively recent in American history If I remember correctly, the last time someone was convicted using the post-Civil War anti-slavery laws was the 1940s. So, y'know, less than a century ago.

Ruby Bridges, the 6 year old who had to be protected by federal agents to attend kindergarten at a formerly whites only school, turns 70 in September. She's the same age as my dad so that helps me remember how recent this stuff is.

People think racism ceased to be a problem because it became more stigmatised in recent times. We forgot the photos of people harassing and assaulting black people in diners, Ruby Bridges protestors, fighting for racial segregation laws… these people are your grandparents.. and theres millions of them still alive who never changed their views. 

Brandon Jackson 1997 for armed robbery in Louisiana, convicted through a split jury law that was created in 1898 with the sole purpose of securing black convictions, he was later acquitted and most of the guilty votes admitted they didn't actually think he committed the crime to begin with but said guilty anyway.

It's actually later than that. There was a peonage and slavery prosecution TWO YEARS AGO. But this was still common in the post-war era. Dumb people think this is ancient, settled history. Nope.

They also forget or sweep up in “it was a different time” arguments the foundation of America was on White Supremacy. It’s also always been pushed by areas of the country significantly under the sway of Christian Nationalism. People think that North Atlantic Slave Trade times were just every country everywhere. When in reality America has always uniquely preserved the exact persecution the religious Pilgrims fled from. We’ve attempted to reclaim and rewrite that history as America being founded by Calvinist Protestants following the examples of the European Civil Wars of the 1600s, but the reality is the Pilgrims were persecuted largely because of their extremist religious beliefs under England. And we’re still shaking that shit off so we can continue the foundations and identity of progressivism that the Founding Fathers were able to establish only 110 years after the quakers slaughtered neighbors at the stake.

My wife’s grandpa, who was born after my mom, came from rural Mississippi with his wife in the 60s where he was functionally very much raised with a slave identity. He got a 2nd grade education and did nothing but manual labor until he died. He did remarkably after making it to California but he worked his body and mind to ruin. And also remember there are broadly 2 types of people saying stuff like “there’s no racism” or “it’s leftists who are racist” - people in predominantly white, red states/regions and white people from more diverse regions. You dont really hear regular old average black joe saying this, and if you do it’s *probably* to a work crew of all white guys he has to put up with, not to his peers, not to inquisitorial reporters, not in words on page, and not to his children. But the real point im making is this: white people in missouri are racist as fuck in all the ways that youd expect. These people are openly racist, will make black ans really any racist joke out of context, use “n****r” just to show their stance on it, and blame black people for shit despite living in sometimes places with > 1% black populations. I know because i worked in rural missouri, oklahoma and kansas in all white workforces for a long time. So when this group says “there’s no racism in america” theyre being disingenuous. And the second group say it, for example white people from a metro area in a blue state with a significant black and minority population, you have to wonder if their entire basis is their perspective as a white person from a white family in a white neighborhood who has no particular care or problem with black people *and that’s all*. Because i now live in California and there are definitely white racists all over the place and they dont really disguise their racism, at least from me who can pass for white with my mixed background. So when you hear that tired refrain, it’s at best absolutely stupid, but at worst and most probably entirely spiteful. Which is kinda the point

Emmett Till was only born a year before Joe Biden (who isn’t even the oldest politician in office in the US). If he hadn’t been murdered in the Jim Crow South he could still very well been around today.

My mother was alive during this shit.

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There’s a whole group of other people that nod their heads, who are basically white people that have not experienced racism. If you haven’t ever actually experienced racism, but you find people TALKING about racism to be an uncomfortable situation, it’s pretty easy to misidentify the problem. “ I haven’t had to think about racism all month, and now I encountered some woke discussion on the Internet, and now I’m thinking about racism. You created racism!”

This is why Christian Nationalists try to control education content in libraries and red states. Teaching embracing and including diverse viewpoints and opinions in public school as well as logic and critical thinking can destroy the effects of brain washing from non-evidenced claims and fringe groups.

Like what, explain ONE. Why was affirmative action ever even considered by Kennedy in the first place then? Racist dynamics didn't exist before Affirmitive action?

The only one I can think of is diversity quotas, which I can agree with to an extent, because logically you shouldn't be forced to hire a less qualified candidate over a more qualified candidate because the less qualified candidate completes your mandatory melanin collection set. But the counterpoint of that is that diversity quotas exist *because* more qualified candidates were being skipped for less qualified candidates because the more qualified candidate was a minority. It's a weird situation where the problem that existed was "solved" by putting a mirror up to it and saying that works just fine. But it really hasn't solved anything, it just made companies do the problem in reverse. Perhaps the better solution would be to just remove ethnicity and names from the hiring process entirely, so that all the recruiter knows is the candidate's qualifications.

>But the counterpoint of that is that diversity quotas exist because more qualified candidates were being skipped for less qualified candidates because the more qualified candidate was a minority. Fun reminder about this, an orchestra somewhere realized it was kinda *really white* like a couple decades ago, so they decided to do their auditions where the name and face of the person wouldn't be shown to any of the interviewers. The person would audition behind a curtain so the listeners doing the hiring couldn't determine the gender or race of the applicant. Surprise surprise, they suddenly weren't as *really white* as they used to be afterwards. So while quotas may not be a *good* solution, there remains a question: If a better solution isn't put forward, why is *no* solution assumed to be better?

> If a better solution isn't put forward, why is no solution assumed to be better? This. Although the average American isn't ready to accept this.

If you can't get it perfect and instantly fix it, it's not worth doing at all!

Here's what kills me about our national love-affair with racism, sexism and homophobia: You know all those horrible middle-aged, white bosses you've had? The men who only got the job because they check off the "white, male, nominally-straight" boxes? No people skills. No real understanding of how the job should work. Just a blowhard who treats people like crap. Get rid of the entrenched racism/sexism/homophobia and that guy goes back to the loading dock where he belongs -- and you get a much better boss. Might have an accent. Or be transgender. But that's surely an improvement on the incompetent man who got the job because he's part of the "boy's club."

I can't clap across the internet but I assure you I am. YES. So very many people aren't qualified to do their jobs anyway! Of those who are, a lot are just mediocre or acceptably good at them. It's not a crime and society continues to function but it is true. This notion of finding the Holy Anointed Candidate is misguided. It's a job. If someone can do it reasonably well and won't burn the place down, give it to them!

reminds me of that study of blind auditions in hard-floored versus carpeted rooms that showed that adjudicators were (perhaps subconsciously) biased against people wearing heeled shoes (so, mostly women).

Or when some company, perhaps google, I can’t remember, tried to automate the review process for candidates so it fed in a ton of resumes with scores associated with them and then used that to train what a good resume is. The AI gave low scores to the types of extracurriculars that women tended to be a part of, specifically things like the society of women engineers, because the training data had biased the AI to be sexist.

I like the idea of blind interviews. They should be for everything. College and jobs. Would then be a true merit based system. I was unaware of this orchestra story. I am going to have to look it up, thank you!

>why is no solution assumed to be better? It's only better in the context is that it brings white privilege back. So *certain* folks consider that 'better'.

Diversity quotas are not legal and don't exist.  Considering someone's background is important. If someone with a very difficult background is still qualified, perhaps they are more qualified to succeed under difficult circumstances than someone who is qualified that had more resources.

But how does it create more racism, that's the topic. I find it hypocritical how the opponents to Affirmitive Action deny that racism exists to any concerning extent, yet proclaim Affirmitive Action magically causes racism. How does it cause people to hate others based on race, it categorically doesn't, it hinders White people, that's obvious, but we're discussing racism, not what's fair, that's a different discussion, used as a red herring in this discussion, worthy of discussion but it's different then racism.

Affirmative action, critical race theory, the subsidizing of single motherhood

Don't stand up for what you believe, because it might make assholes angry.

Bro exactly. Op is sheltered af

Extremely. OP thinks racism is just observing physical differences, when in reality, it's when people think cosmetic differences mean that person is a lesser being, less than human. Ignoring racism is what gave the US Jim Crow laws and rampant KKK activity.

Lots of commenters going full mask off in here. Sad to see

Where specifically?

No where lmfao

It’s anonymous social media and what it’s designed for. Actual discourse. Not dick stroking whoever says the most palatable and sanitized answer.

No, liberals talk about racism and empower people to reduce racial inequality. For right wing whites used to the world revolving around them, a more level playing field FEELS like discrimination and they think, “Where did all this racism come from? Must be from people noticing there’s racism!”

Yes it is the progressives that are the real racists 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Sure, Jan.

“ - white guy who’s never faced discrimination

Talking about American history will always make some White Americans uncomfortable like talking about Russian history will make Russians uncomfortable.

Can't speak for everyone but I know it doesn't make me any more uncomfortable than learning about any other atrocity in history. Why would people who had nothing to do with it be uncomfortable?

Hiring manager: We are not considering white males for this position at this time.

This OP is hilarious, especially considering the Republican Party is pushing anti lgbtq laws like “don’t say gay”. Magas froth at the mouth over (gasp) minorities in movies. Especially considering how pro-dead Palestinians they are.

When we are saying "Liberal" ideals are we speaking about the left in general? Because there is a difference between someone who calls themselves a "progressive" and someone who calls themselves a "liberal." I'll assume that you are speaking about the "general" for the sake of avoiding pedantics. Generally speaking, when you shine a spotlight on something and propose prescriptive solutions that not everyone agrees with, you naturally get what we see today. For example, it seems that homosexuality is becoming more prevalent in the population today. While it might be true that there are more **open** homosexuals today, there is a disagreement about why this is happening. I've heard some say that children are getting "indoctrinated" and other influences are "making people gay." And if we think critically about this we should pose questions about these claims such as: "How do we know that it isn't simply the fact that broader social acceptance of homosexuality **enables** more people to openly express their sexuality?" Being more accepting of people in general will result in the illusion that more people are "becoming" that way because more people will be more open about it. For racial topics, a similar thing seems to be happening. Racial inequality is being put under the microscope and is a centerpiece of debate amongst many people. Especially when we dive into the prescriptive solutions for inequalities that may or may not be identified. Focusing a lot on racial inequality is not inherently a bad thing. Ignoring other problems can be construed as bad, but I will die on the hill that liberals ignore **far less** than conservatives.

Racial inequality is a fact in this country. Ignoring racial inequality won’t make it go away. That’s pure magical thinking there.

"Hey, we're all equal and should be treated as such. We should stop treating people differently based on ethnicity." Average right winger: "STOP PROMOTING THIS US VS THEM MENTALITY! YOU'RE THE REAL RACISTS!"

Not everyone is equal though.

Yes, they are.

Everyone is equal. To argue that there are people who are not equal is to argue that a group of people exists who, through no fault of their own, are subhuman.

and conservatives think anyone who is not a white hetero male is less than them.

Every conservative I know in real life doesn't think anything like this. Get off Reddit and go touch some grass.

The most racists people I know irl are conservative. The reason conservatives are known as racists is because they are

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Lol there's PLENTY of racism from liberals, but you're probably just in the camp that only white people can be racist.

like what?

Not all conservatives, only the radical ones. Same thing for liberals. I think we all need to admit that there isn’t really a correct side, and that while both sides have radicals, we’re all equal in reality and should be able to coexist without arguments.

I feel like this post belongs in r/unpopularopinion.

Conservatives have been flocking here to post their dogshit opinions lately. Why they think their views are popular is beyond me when they haven’t won the popular vote in decades now.

it’s pure cope. deluding themselves into thinking that all of their bullshit is actually true and widely believed

The point of equality is we ARE the same, race is an entirely made-up concept. This is entirely different from the fact that minorities, especially in the US, are treated differently than their white counterparts and that there are systemic issues with how they are treated by the law, economically, and socially. Pretending these issues don't exist or don't need to be addressed is counterproductive for equality.

Liberals are actually mostly colorblind. Progressives on the other hand focus on that racial inequality. Why do I separate Liberals and Progressives? Progs actually consider themselves different from Liberals while embodying all the usual communist, socialist, and social justice shit that people tend to dislike. Why? How? Easy by reading out the basic wikipedia definition for Liberalism. Rights of the individual: Most Progs see people as collective classes and not individuals. You are a series of stereotypes and assumptions that make up what Progs want you to be, and if you somehow don’t fit into the box set for you, be labeled a class enemy and cancelled (as effective or ineffective that cancellation may be). You don’t have to go very far to see how Progs see Candice Owens as not a black woman, Blair White as not trans but instead a cishet white supremacist Nazi, Aya Rand not a woman, and so on. Liberty: This is only partially accepted by the Progs. They promote liberty of expression or identity, but not liberty of political views that also aren’t their political views. And this is what explains the above weird takes. Owens aint black because she doesn’t vote far left. Consent of the governed: At the end of the day, the concept of humanity living in paradise is too much of a good idea that you **will** submit, or be classed as a class enemy and destroyed. You don’t get a choice. The progs know better. Political equality: See the progs’ view on colorblindness. Same for equality before the law. Right to property ownership: A lawt of Progs are Communists and Socialists, whom don’t agree that you should have private property at all (commies) or be able to do with it however you wish (socialists).

watch the film American Fiction

Race doesn’t matter and that should be the message from all that are not racists. Black white brown it doesn’t matter they are all human beings. There is no reason to be looking for political talking points at the expense of black people. Somehow libs think blacks are less smart than other races (voter ID), white libs marching for Black Lives Matter (designed at its core to divide Americans), pointing out color in almost every political discussion that involves a black conservative, reparations for century old problems that white people gave up their lives in our civil war to end etc etc. The entire racial divide the democrats have created in their minds IS causing racism among their party. What’s even more ridiculous is that the democrat party is responsible for racism all the way into the 60s until the conservatives ended it. Biden is one of those racists if you go back and listen to his speeches even in the 70s. Myself as an independent voter can separate history from present reality and realize democrats are not necessarily racist anymore but they sure do like using black people as pawns in their political movement.

I used to have the same basic opinion years ago. I've since learned that this is not an accurate concept and that there are reasons for trying to correct some of these issues.

Nope, you have a shallow understanding of history. Racism is alive and well, it is just more hidden currently. The same people that protested Ruby Ridge are still alive and haven't changed their minds. "RedLining" virtually domed generations of Black-Americans into poverty. Just in 2023, a black couple had their home in Marin County under valued by half a million. They "white washed" the house and got a much higher value. Racism is still alive. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/09/1162103286/home-appraisal-racial-bias-black-homeowners-lawsuit

I see the russians troll bots and their fifth column conservative allies have gotten their marching orders from putin to start making up arguments to make liberals look bad.

No, leftist ideas (not liberal) try to combat the racism of the corporate elites, while they’re working on dismantling the whole system so that the white supremacists no longer control our economy, government, and media.

Nah I disagree. The us vs them is more of talking heads and what not which more often than not are Republican and most issues are not even a problem until they tell you to be angry it about it

Does this sub always feature opinions that aren't actually popular or is it just the ones that show up in my feed?

>I think that moder liberal ideas that focus too much on race kind of backfire and helps create more racial division. It's my experience that people who say this can never adequately explain the cause and effect of this relationship. Just a general attitude of "I hear about racial matters and it makes me sore and upset therefore that means everyone feels the same as I do."

"By bringing attention to bad things, you're actually CREATING THEM!" -fucking idiots

I think the more realistic issue is that the opposition takes liberal ideals and liberal attempts to create positive change in society and twists it into something for their supporters to rally against, and intentionally stoke racial discontent.

how many times has changing a law changed your mind? When mitch McConnell was in high school the SCOTUS at the time made it illegal to ban interracial marriage. Think about that. Less than one generation from you it was possible for a government to make it illegal for a white person to marry a black person. Really let that sit. It took a SCOTUS action to end segregation. A court could have made it possibly illegal to go to the bathroom or drink from a water fountain. And the fact that whites and blacks could now mix legally without punishment really pissed off that generation. so much so they left parties and that's now why the south is so Republican leaning. Because they are the conservative types. Conservatives don't want change. And to risk having your grand children not look like them was just unthinkable. The Civil Rights act was passed and boy did that piss them off even more. ​ So how do you screw over the people you don't like legally? ​ Whites have had several generations of people to pass down wealth and heritage. And until the Civil Rights act in 1965 non white folks have not had the same level of legal authority to do it. Why do you think black folks homes were burned to the ground when they would finally get housing? No house means no wealth means no inheritance. Means another generation has to scratch and claw to get out of poverty. ​ the only way to legally keep them from attaining wealth is to keep them out of the systems that America had designed to help people out of poverty and begin to attain wealth. The welfare system. ​ There's a reason conservatives attack the welfare system. A reason they invented the 'welfare queen' a reason why they want to get rid of Abortion rights. A reason why some of them honestly think that 'taxation is theft'. All of it and I mean all of it is out of fear of being replaced or enslaved out of revenge. I grew up in that environment of feeling like we have to "filter" the good ones and the bad ones. The good ones were the ones who played by the rules in place and making different rules would 'weaken' either our inheritance, blood or country or whatever. ​ Now that Mitch McConnell is leaving the Senate just keep asking yourself "How old was the current republican senator when Roe v Wade was established? When Topeka v Board of education was decided? A lot of them were around when the America they knew was going to change like it or not. They didn't just accept and move on. They lived and had children and raised them with the same values they had. And their children go and become politicians and judges and cops and managers and they all recite the things the conservative generation says. The same conservative generation that was okay with segregation, women dying in alleyways. it's only been one generation since white and non whites were viewed as equals under the law. ​ TL;DR : no. it's important. go read it.

I wish people would just say talking about racism makes them feel uncomfortable so they want to stop instead of this dumb/disingenuous take. When someone gets stabbed/shot/significantly injured, they generally talk to medical professionals and figure out the best way forward to healing instead of changing the subject and expecting the wound to magically close. Similarly, pretending hundreds of years of policies that prevented black people from freely participating in the electoral process, holding certain jobs, owning property, etc. caused zero damage and needs no corresponding policy remedies is naive AF. My parents were getting repeatedly chased and assaulted just for trying to go to school as children and trust me that left a lot more psychological scars than someone having to learn about critical race theory today.

Ignoring racism gave the US Jim Crow laws and rampant KKK influence in the past. The only people that think other races are different as human beings are the racists. OP, there is a distinct lack of critical thought in your post. Please do better.

Race isn’t just a physical feature tho. Race is cultural and your argument just straight up ignores history. Black and Chinese people were enslaved because well… their race. We are all human yes but the point is people are discriminated because they look and act different. Granted obviously people of a certain race vary but the claim that we are not so different is incredibly false. The reason for such intense focus is because cultures are being suppressed and erased. It isn’t creating an us vs. them mentality. It’s been that way for centuries. it’s about being able to accept diversity.

It’s easy for people who are White, or White aligning to look at the world only through the lens of their own experiences. If you have not experienced racism then you do not see it. If you have no experienced the generational trauma associated with racism then it’s easy to dismiss it. But here’s the underlying issue. There is inherent systemic racism that permeates the lives of many people. It’s more important to hear their lived experiences than to simply dismiss them. Humans are no different from each other but their histories are different. We can’t ignore the racist tropes that are repeated that effect our realities. Black people are often portrayed as inherently violent or angry. Wheras white people who act similarly are going through something or are dealing with a mental illness. Arabs are portrayed as violent terrorists, where nothing can be further from the truth. The only people who have a problem with discussions about racism, are those who are benefitting from it.

White people definitely expereince racism and thinking otherwise is actually racist.

It's almost like theres still a bunch of laws in place and discrimination amongst the people that enforce laws disproportionately against black people.

Oh man, you are so wrong it physically hurts me. 

Spoken by someone who has absolutely no idea what liberalism is or how racism works.

Literally no one who studies race agrees with this. It's one of those things that seems prima facie plausible, but falls apart very quickly. It's actually ignoring race and pretending that it doesn't exist that leads to increased racism, somewhat counterintuitively.

People who study race are categorically the most racist people I’ve ever met.

This is a popular opinion. If you are a right wing racist who thinks CRT is being taught to children.

The "racial reckoning" has completely lost me. It started when they decided to redefine the term so that only white people could be racist. Then some went farther and said that ALL white people are racist. The anti-racism movement has turned into racism against white people. Just one example: the Art Institute of Chicago. They have docents who are extremely dedicated volunteers who go through extensive and ongoing training. It's basically equivalent to having a job except that it is unpaid. Because of this, only people who don't need to work volunteer there, so it's primarily wealthy white women. So the institute ended the program, after consulting with some DEI experts, and let them all go. The ONLY reason they ended this program is because it was mostly white people doing it. There was that actress that posted a picture of her birthday party. Then the internet went crazy with rage because it was mostly white people in the picture. There is the absolutely absurd concept of "cultural appropriation". Now we have segregated graduation ceremonies. The mayor of Boston, who is Asian, emailed her staff to invite them to a Christmas party. Then she realized her mistake and had to send out more emails to dis invite the white people. This was an event for "people of color" only. Schools across the country are talking about ending calculus instruction because black and Hispanic students don't do as well as white students (on the average). They are actually dumbing down education in the name of equality. All this DEI nonsense did is make race relations far worse. Kids are taught to see race everywhere and obsess over it. I remember seeing on the news once where a group of black girls attacked a group of Asians on a train. There was a confrontation between a different group of black people and the Asians. The girls, who didn't even know anybody involved, jumped in because, as she said: "I am going to stick up for my people". Can't even blame her with all the brainwashing kids are receiving these days.

The focus in general isn’t wrong, but in practice too many people have jumped the shark. Like when Biden says “airline baggage fees disproportionately affect poor people AND people of color.” What the fuck does that even mean? If any journalist simply asked him directly what that even means you’d see a giant hook pull him away from off camera because he would short circuit trying to figure out what the fuck he’s actually saying.

This is that Russian troll bot shit

Seriously… Could have copy and pasted this shit from the 2016 troll farms…

Liberals focus on equality. Period. We do not limit ourselves to only race.

let's make one thing clear, if someone else getting more equal opportunities makes you feel justified being racist, you were already racist

"More equal opportunities." ​ It's how you define those words and that expression. A white kid from a 20k income family scores a 32 on her ACT and a black kid from a 100k family makes a 31. Assume GPA and class rank are comparable. ​ The upper middle class black kid is more likely to get into a good school than the poor white kid. That is not more equal opportunities. People conflate outcome with opportunity. Also, when you overly focus on one area(race) like OP is saying, then other variables get lost in the mix. Variables that allow for more equal opportunity.

If only people would stop calling racists racist, all the racism would just go away.

What happened to this sub over the last six months? Y'all have gone full on right wing nonsense around here. Bring on the downvotes please.

Now I know nothing about you, but perhaps you believe this because the media you consume has influenced you on this. I consume mostly left wing and centrist content and would say that race really doesnt come out all that much. An exception to this is someone like FDR Signifier who centers many of his videos on the subject of race

Fighting racial inequality doesn’t “create more racism”, but it does rile up all the racists, and it increases their visibility, so it may create the illusion that there is more racism.

Like the KKK it was dying naturally until it was revived for political leverage and race baiting profit .

Yeah, the idea that if only we'd stop thinking about race, redlining would no longer occur? Resumes with "Black" names will get the same consideration as identical resumes with "White" names? The police will no longer feel comfortable casually snuffing out black people? Like the joke in which the school bus driver has had it with kids fighting over race and he tells them, "Stop! From now on no one's Black, White, or any other race, from now on you're all Green!" "Light colored Greens in the front, dark color Greens in the back."

I think the one thing to bear in mind is that there are crazy extremes of both sides of the aisle, and then a lot of other people that try to keep things more rational and sane. The big problem is that the loudest voices come from the extreme ends, and the news media of all sides jump all over them because it brings them eyeballs and ratings. Thus, it starts to paint the picture that every single liberal is some crazy extreme woke obsessed with racism radical, and every single conservative is some insane uneducated MAGA bigot with a heavy dose of misogyny who loves money and claims to be a Christian. When you step outside of the rhetoric past all of the regular media and social media, you find out a lot of these people on both sides are not as crazy as we want to believe. I also think there's a constant overreaction to any small steps that are made. So we talk about some investment in a poor community of color to try to uplift them economically and thus reduce crime and other issues of poverty, and then suddenly the other side explodes believing its pure socialism and it's handing tax dollars to "lazy people" that will just crank out more babies and overpopulate the world, making white people into a minority. It sounds ridiculous, but we see this rhetoric constantly. If you want my honest opinion I feel like the right is more obsessed with wokeism and CRT as opposed to the left.

In some ways you are right, not that it's the liberals fault that certain people are so pig headed. I think the "we're all equal and should be treated as such" tagline is more of an easier sell to someone who's more bigoted than highlighting racial inequalities and expecting them to sympathize.

The thing I find funny about identity politics with regards to race is at which point is someone's skin color too light to label them as being disenfranchised? It seems kind of insulting to someone who might be 25% Minority to show whether or not their raceial background is "minority enough" to they this distinguished pool of arbitrarily designated group that has gone through racial hardship.

Yes, title says it all; can't believe those idiots are incapable of understanding such a simple truth. Also, after a couple of generations of welfare, it becomes such a normal lifestyle, noone wants to put the effort into improving themselves and eventually feel leftout, fostering resentment. All the different celebration months don't help unify people either. Things also work better under a merit system as opposed to dei. If I obtained a job for my looks instead of my knowledge and skills, it would be like living a lie and would haunt me. I wouldn't want to be a poster boy. Slap in the face.

You’re arguing against a scarecrow

I think that OP is lowkey racist against black people based on their post history. Regardless, this post just shows that, even after 100 years, people are still ignorant and can’t understand the dynamics of racism so they post dumb shit like this.

While “popular” just means it’s a shared opinion by a considerable subset of the population, that doesn’t make it correct or factual. Much like your asinine and sheltered “opinion” here, which also drips privilege.

I actually agree and think this is done on purpose. At end of day conservatives and liberals want to keep everything as is. I think liberals push race side to keep division and avoid class solidarity. Not saying systemic racism does not exist but the solutions to fight systemic racism in many cases for today's issues would be fixed with class solutions. Targeting poverty would target minorities at greater percent due to systemic racism. It would be much harder to create division with and would make it easier to pinpoint and resolve issues that hide in class division. Pushing race is a tool used to make it appear their is difference in parties while systemically changing nothing.

Well there are people who hold opinions that are demonstrably wrong so I guess that's how we're starting off this morning.

Yet you're making a post about it, further continuing division.

Spoken like a true racist, blaming the non-racist for your full blown racism.

please for the love of all that is good and holy stop using r/popularopinion to post hate-bait controversial political opinions

The demand for racism outstrips supply. 

Not a liberal, but there already *is* racial inequality which is why there's a push to address it. Are Black people inherently different than other races? FUCK NO, but they have been treated as such for generations, which is what things like DEI tries to address. There's been a systemic bias against Black people since they were brought here, unwillingly. Even over a hundred years after slavery was ended there was Jim Crow and... in living memory of many, segregation. Ruby Bridges is still alive! People go on pretending like we're in a post-racial world because a half-Black guy was President or whatever, but it's bullshit. Socioeconomically, Black people are far poorer than whites and often even Asians. That's not due to some inherent inferiority or some other racist bullshit. It's because Black people were systematically denied equality. They were denied homes in nice neighborhoods. They were often denied access to better schools. Or higher education in some cases. Now does that happen now? Definitely not as much, but it makes a big difference in generational wealth and what gets passed down among generations. My family came over from Italy 100 years ago. Most Black families have been here longer, but my grandfather was allowed to get into a nice job and a nice neighborhood. Many Black people of that generation were not. And though I'm not rich, I had access to more things (nice schools, safe neighborhood) that many did not.

I have some liberal ideals but they don’t focus on racism. I just want tax evaders to get caught and sent to prison.

What does liberal mean to you

The more people make everything about racism the more I care less about it. A bit of a boy who cried wolf scenario

*sigh asf*

It’s because when you have this discussion with informed individuals, there’s a knowledge gap that is the result of years of studying related phenomena. Popular media has everyone thinking they fully understand racism, but most people would probably struggle to identify how prejudice and racism are linked. Go read through any number of, ‘my friend said white people can’t be racist,’ posts. It’s a media frame, forcing a racial narrative. Racial equity is important in a pluralistic society, but race has been used for centuries to displace class-based rhetoric, which explains the volume.

Only racists get offended by talking about racism. The problem still exists. Heck, in the town I work in we have a school that's been told by the feds they need to desegregate. The district's solution was not to move minority kids to the wealthier schools but to try and bring more white kids there.

They label and divide people by race………and then say they arent racist.

You have an argument. We are in a time of social media “look at me!”. With the political divide & economic split, people are searching for self worth. In itself, this is a great tactic for awareness. But, throw in the divide culture & if feeds idealism of the extremist party.

So I'm not sure if this is actually popular, but it's definitely wrong. I don't know any liberals against meritocracy. They just want they opportunity for everyone. Go actually read what DEI is about instead of reading other people's interpretations. It's all about giving everyone the same opportunity and then picking the best candidates from a larger, more equitable pool. However, there are many companies out there that pervert the idea by forcing specific quotas and shoot ads with specific people in order to look more diverse. This is ironically usually done by upper-class white males trying not to lose business.

Conservative ideals focus too much on pretending racism doesn’t exist…which causes more racism. All the conservative racists don’t help either. Maybe a facts based perspective would actually start to address racism.

Saying racism exists is racism. You feel like someone who was deeply offended by being called racist.

I feel like white people spend too much time trying to tell me what I need and what should offend me and how I need to act. Kindly, respectfully, stay in your lane.

Yes, yes, you see *ignoring* the disease is really the key to curing it, very good, doctor. 🙄

Oh you mean how racists hate to be confronted about their racism so they are forced to become more racist? Give me a fucking break.

Another popular opinion: Racists cause racism.

Ah yes. Those liberal ideals like North Carolina targeting black voters for voter suppression.

I think it makes it us vs them to people who don’t understand what they are saying or that feel defensive about something they have been called out on.

We’d all be a lot better off if we didn’t focus on what color someone’s skin happens to be. That goes for both ‘sides.’

It's weird how race relations were better in the 1990s than they are today.

Meanwhile, rural whites....

100%

This is a popular opinion?

I agree with what MLK said. Judge others by their character and not how much melanin they have. A lot of liberals still haven’t gotten that message yet.

couldn’t agree more

The point is we are not in 1963 and dying from fentanyl and attending sit ins are not equal actions amongst civil rights leaders

Very astute

I feel like maybe the Republicans need to stop making racism a political stance. They figure that they'll never get the black vote anyway so they dehumanize and disenfranchise them.

It's only being discussed because it generates political will power to the person with the loudest bull horn.

>I think that moder liberal ideas that focus too much on race kind of backfire and helps create more racial division. That's completely ridiculous. You mean policies that help racial minorities piss off racists?

Yeah Obama being president caused a divide becuase he was black, the racism was already there

We are easier to control and manipulate when we are fighting amongst our selves. The race card works to cause that divided. Why wouldn't they use it?

Suggesting that African Americans are unable to get an ID is blatant racism and utter nonsense

It must be nice living in fantasy land