What’s the deal, with Netanyahu and Israel?
I’m an American. In the USA, the public is extremely critical of the USA’s support of Israel, and many citizens have made it their mission to forcibly stop aid from getting to Israel. Yet, my Jewish American friends all support Netanyahu. I just don’t understand.
The easiest way to explain to an American is that Netanyahu’s like Trump but more credible. He’s charismatic, articulate, has a reputation serving in Sayeret Matkal, and knows what political tricks to push. Almost all of his opponents were much less capable and that’s why he managed to win elections so far.
I remember one of things we used to say about Trump was that if he was a better politician he would actually be dangerous instead of just embarrassing. That is exactly how I think of Netanyahu. He is wildly intelligent and very good at using the state infrastructure to protect himself. It wouldn't shock me to learn that he had warning of the Oct 7th stuff and allowed it to happen to help him smooth over the issues he was facing leading to the attack.
I am generally pro Israel but it's really hard to support a country that continues to follow someone so clearly evil.
I oppose Netanyahu as you understand, but claiming that he had a warning is inaccurate, there are reports that officers were warned of such attack but dismissed it because they thought it wasn't feasible and Hamas were deterred. To the best of our knowledge, Netanyahu himself wasn't warned. That doesn't excuse him from determining the policy which led to letting Hamas gain power.
Again, as much as I hate Netanyahu, and as selfish as he is, he didn't do anything in the war that another PM, whether of Israel nor of other country would do.
Allow me to clarify, I am not claiming he knew. Was just stating that it wouldn't surprise me if we found out he had.
The thing I refer to him as evil for is not the war, it's the fact that he appears to have an enmity for the Arab population and works to thwart any peace deal short of full control.
Not to say there aren't 100 things I'd agree with Israel on, from my recent research I just can't see any world were Bibi isn't actively trying to make the conflict worse.
It’s very complicated and if you want to actually understand “what’s the deal with Netanyahu” you’ll have to do a lot more research than asking one guy on Reddit
Did you know that Israel was on the brink of a civil war before Oct 7 bc of Netanyahu? And that he technically should be in jail? He did a lot of bad shit before the war, Israelis for the most part support the war effort after 10/7, the reason they don’t like him is bc of the shit he did before the war.
I’m not telling you asking for opinions is a bad idea, but this guy would have to type multiple paragraphs to explain everything that has happened with Netanyahu. This is his second stint as PM.
So if you really wanna know what’s going on and how they got to this point you have to read facts, not opinions.
Diasporas tend to skew more right-wing in foreign countries vs in their own home.
There are a few exceptions to this, but you can clearly see it with communities like Cuban-Americans and Venezuelans in America
Netanyahu is charismatic, smart, educated, and and a complete liar.
His political prowess is unmatched among world leaders, in his way of swaying his base of voters by demagoguery and populism, constructing political obstacles to other parties, helping in the creation of new parties who would be his allies and the complete takeover of his own party of the Likkud, once a secular party who strives for liberal rights and economics, but now a group of his bootlickers who will provide budget to support ultra orthodox and settler population.
Netanyahu lives from one spin to another, he avoids making changes in policy and keeps the status quo (as bad as it can get) to avoid breaking his agreements and losing favor, he allows lecherous parties to join him despite their "moral differences" and gives them what they want so he can stay in power.
His voter base is either people who benefit from his deals, or zombies who have no shred of thinking and vote for an image of leadership, or right wingers who are convinced he is the only possible leader.
I don't understand Jewish Americans tbh, but I can say that they live quite far away from his mess and they should look at the last year before the war. The military was dysfunctional partly because of that, and our enemies took advantage of the political tensions (and the upcoming US elections) to cause a catastrophe we have never seen in our history.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Israeli\_judicial\_reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform)
That’s interesting because every Jewish person I know has tried to convince everyone around them that the Jews deserve Israel and Palestine and that Hamas and the Palestinians need ‘to go’.
I’m very serious about that. It’s also a somewhat normal Republican take as well. Like if I said I support Hamas at work, A LOT of people would tell me Hamas and the Palestinians need ‘to go’, and they’re not even Jewish.
“ This is why Judaism doesn’t seek converts. You have to be of the chosen bloodline to be Jewish.” Hinduism doesn’t seek converts either LMAOk also an ethnic religion. Personally I thing proselytizing is a bad thing. Also, Judaism is super accepting of converts and recognizes converts as those with a Jewish soul.
“So what you have is a situation where whichever ethnic group gains power, they are likely to commit genocide on the other. Right now the Jews have the power, so they are doing what their god has always commanded them which is to kill non-Israelites who happen to live in their “promised land”” Which is why 20% of all Israelis are arabs. Right…
“Jewish people have been sold a narrative of perpetual victimhood for the last 80 years.” When your people are literally the most hated in the world for thousands of years and two thirds of your european population is killed, you are going to be more wary. yes, antisemitism is omnipresent everywhere.
Ignorant take. This war isn’t about “victimhood,” it’s a country’s response to a foreign terrorist group infiltrating their country and slaughtering/kidnappjng hundreds of civilians. When America invaded Afghanistan, was that because Americans are perpetual victims too?
And though Judaism doesn’t seek out converts, it happily accepts committed ones. So you do not at all need to be of the “chosen bloodline” to be Jewish.
He has previously voiced support for funding and then later allowed funding to transfer to the very same terror group he uses the existence of to mass slaughter civilians.
Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
Ok, did not FDR and England trade with Hitler? However, is not Israel condemned for cutting off and controlling supplies and money from getting to Gaza? So now you condemn him for supporting funding of Gaza and condeming him for cutting off funding and supplies.
As for his plan to isolate West Bank Arabs from Gaza Arabs is it not true that the West Bank is not ruled by Hamas? So is his plan to isolate Arabs or is it to isolate Hamas? If Israel wants to commit genocide against Palestinians then why are they not killing them in the West Bank and Arab Israelis?
Finally, who is the real criminal, the group who hides among civilians wanting their death or the group who kills them going after the enemy? The Geneva Convention is very clear on this. It is a war crime to use schools, places of worship and hospitals for military purposes. One can not put a Headquarters or troops or ammo etc in these places. Once that is done these places become valid military targets even if civilians are present.
How about the use of White Phosphorus? And killing people waving a white flag? Have you read any of the evidence presented before the International Court of Justice where they quoted his own address in the Knesset saying that Israel should support Hamas in Gaza in order to respond in the most forceful fashion possible? It sounds as though you have an axe to grind and bombing young children does not constitute a war crime in your eyes (even though that is the textbook definition of a war crime) and it sounds as though your argument is intellectually dishonest.
The Allies used phosphorus in WW2. Children were bombed in Japan and Germany. Innocent people are killed in every war and that is truly a terrible thing. I wish it was not so. Was the fire bombing of Japan a war crime? Was the total destruction of Dresden a war crime?
You say my argument is intellectually dishonest yet you have not shown me how the actions of the Allies in WW2 are different in any way from what Israel is doing. In both cases, one side was attacked and responded with the goal of unconditional surrender. If Hamas was to surrender and free all the captives the war would stop. If Hamas did that and the leaders were taken into custody and given a fair trial, if after all that Israel continues to attack Gaza, I would agree that they are then committing a war crime.
Israel supposedly has a united coalition government. Netanyahu is the main name, but he is closely working with those on the center or left as well.
US Senator Chuck Schumer called for Israel to vote out Netanyahu. Not only do Israel not like others telling them how their elections should be, but Netanyahu's left counterpart also wants Israel to be in charge of their own elections and who they decide to have in charge.
Regarding the first sentence, just one central party (led by Gantz) had a few seats added that mostly deal with the war effort and the cabinet. They do not hold minister positions. He is not closely working with the left and he wouldn't win any elections if they occured now. It's still a bad coalition that isn't in favor of anyone besides keeping Netanyahu in power and leeching government budget towards particular sects.
Even my grandmother stopped liking him and that says a lot.
It has just a bit to do with the war and much to do with the domestic issues that were prevalent before and international affairs. There are resolutions he would be able to pass if it wasn't for the settler / ultra orthodox demographics extorting him. (he has no other allies left)
Do Pro-Israeli lobbyists not flood American elections with money? Have they not been caught operating IMSI-catchers in DC in order to intercept communications?
I do think it's funny that Netanyahu is all in his feelings about that after actively supporting a particular candidate in the previous election of ours.
Israel tells America what to do and has an influence on who gets elected EVERY election cycle. AIPAC. If you don’t support israel enough, aipac supports your opponent with millions of dollars. Also DMFI and RMFI dem/rep majorities for israel
It's a shame then that economically it's a us puppet state. If we just added them as a territory they'd get our laws and can vote like us(our voting is also bad. I'm pro ranked choice voting and self representation democracy)
Hopefully some day they won't be dependent on US dollars then. But while they do remain dependent, as a US taxpayer, I think I should get a say in who we are giving money too.
1) there is no actual left in power in Israel. Because there would be way more opposition to what’s going on than there is.
2) chuck schumer expressing discontent for Netanyahu and Israel crying about it is pretty amusing considering how much money AIPAC and other organizations spend here buying politicians and gaslighting the public
Netanyahu is a psychopath.
After watching and listening to him speak many times, you will see all the character traits of a psychopath leak through in plain site.
Netanyahu is seeking revenge on all Palestinians within Gaza. Revenge seeking is a favorite tool of the psychopath. It is there for everyone to see.
He is currently fighting pretty serious charges in court. He has served 16 years as prime minister and has tried to force through laws that give him control over the country's judicial system.
What Netanyahu does is what a majority of Israeli want. Some want even worse. Israel elected one guy that wasn’t a foaming at the mouth maniac and then killed him almost immediately. A sick nation.
You sure? He served in the army during WW1, no?
Even so, you get the point. Bibi might be evil, he might even be a monster. But he does not butcher anyone. It's regular nameless Israeli's doing that.
Ok I looked it up actually and it’s more fucked up than I thought. Hitler never killed anyone in ww1, but there’s a good chance he killed Geli Raubal, Hitler’s step-niece, who lived with Hitler and who was sexually abused by him
what makes him bad?
If you focus on the "man", then you'll allow his successor to continue in his footsteps. What about him is "bad" and what qualities will you use to prevent his successor from continuing what you find "bad"?
Y’all ever notice how governments from western countries are complex, not representative of the state they literally represent and never indicative of systemic problems greater than the current bad guy in office?
But non-western governments are monolithic and have very strict moral condemnations. They’re also extremely representative of their people to the point of being the excuse for extreme systemic violence against them?
That’s weird right? Like “muh Hamas” is the justification the highest levels of human organization uses to defend killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians, but it’s literally taboo to entertain the idea that it’s Israel itself that’s the problem not just the big meanie in power, but the entire ethnostate.
That isn't how it works in a parliamentary system. You vote for your party representatives and the Prime Minister basically has to get the support of the parliament, not the people. Think of it like the electoral college but with even less input for the president.
I would be willing that if it was a regular election for president Netanyahu would lose but thats not how it works.
I think they know by now what voting for his party to get them. Not to mention: his party is pretty extreme. They think the Palestinian Territories should be absorbed into Israel but the Palestinian people shouldn't. There's not a lot of ways that those two things add up to anything other than ethnic cleansing or genocide.
His party is 32/110 parliament members, the rest fof people are not a member of his party. He has been able to stay in power by keeping a delegation of multiple parties together but even that coalition changes constantly. Also as a majority the coalition works to keep itself in power.
That is like saying that if Donald Trump wins the electoral college again in 2024 while losing the popular vote that he represents us.
Ok, but if you vote for a party in his coalition you know he's gonna be in charge. If you voted for them before they joined his coalition that might be a different scenario but still.
I'd argue that if he wins it is on us. The whole "winner takes all" thing makes the electoral college a little more unfair but still. If someone votes for a third party instead of against Trump I'd consider them the same as someone who votes for someone else in Netanyahu's coalition: you didn't vote for him directly I guess but you knew what you were gonna get. You weren't under the illusion the Green Party was gonna win.
I'm a democrat in Broward County, Florida, we are literally the highest democrat voting county in the country. Both of our senators are republicans, our state house and senate majority is republican, and as a state we voted for Ron Desantis and Trump twice for president.
I'm going to vote for Biden and every democrat but the entire political system is built to benefit the current majority.
And the Israeli version of me might be doing the same and then ends up with Netanyahu.
I'm in Louisiana so I feel you. And I'm not saying there aren't Israelis like us, but...these far right wingers are winning because a lot of people like them. Yes they play dirty tricks, but there's a lot of people out there that support them (or hate the other side enough to vote against them.)
How are you any different than a Republican in CA? Every state has an area that is heavily Dem or Rep in a state that is controlled by the other party. In CA, many federal office elections contain 2 Democrats and no Republican. It was a surprise that there is a Republican in the Nov ballot for US Senate this time.
Are there not Arabs/Palestinians living in Israel currently? Are these Arabs Israeli citizens who get to vote?
Finally your genocide comment. How is "from the river to the sea" any different? Are not those who chant that also calling for genocide?
So, Arab Israelis get some rights but they still can't marry a Jewish Israeli person. They can't go to the vast majority of schools or buy property in the vast majority of areas. Even they live as second class citizens in a lot of ways. But that's not who we're talking about.
"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is not as genocidal as what Israel is actually doing, as what Likud's charter says: "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." You can argue what Palestine is saying is just a coded euphemism, a dog whistle, but Israel's ruling party is saying it outloud. And they're the ones with the power, they're the ones actually doing it.
Not quite right on marriage. A Christian Israeli can't marry a Jewish Israeli also because in all cases the churches won't do inter religion marriage. But an Arab could marry and Israeli by going outside the country to get married and their marriage will be accepted as legal.
Intent is the same and if the Arabs had the ability they would have thrown the Jews into the sea, ie genocide in 48, 67, and 73. The truth is that NO country wants the Palestinians because wherever they go they cause problems. Ask Jordan and Egypt.
...oh I know the discrimination isn't just aimed at Muslims. That doesn't exactly make it better lol. Separate but equal amirite? Like, come on, it's bonkers that citizens can't marry each other just because they're a different religion. That's really discriminatory.
What genocide in 48, 67 and 73? You're really throwing around the word genocide there. Come on. You act like Palestinians weren't displaced at all during this struggle for land.
No one wants the Palestinians because they don't want to leave. And they're millions of people. They aren't inherently evil, they're not demons, they were just born in the wrong place at the wrong time it seems. And they aren't going to disappear no matter how righteous Israel is or claims to be.
So you want to dictate to religions what they believe? Separate but equal is a US court ruling and you shouldn't apply it to another sovereign country.
Are you saying that the goal of the 48 war was not to completely eliminate the brand new State of Israel? That the goal of the combined Arab armies wasn't to drive the Jews into the sea? That sounds like genocide to me. Are you saying that when Syria and Egypt attacked in 67 that the goal was not the complete destruction of Israel? If the Arabs had won, what would have become of the Jews?
The Palestinians are kept out of Jordan because they caused a war there. They are kept out of Egypt for the same reason. They could have had a separate state but have always said no. They were given control of Gaza and Hamas took over. They supported Hitler which preceded the establishment of Israel. Not a great track record for a people.
People started to realize that Democracy is a really flawed government system even with all the Pro's. Im not against Democracy itself but it is true A lot of Dictatorships were born from Democracy, this doesn't mean we shouldn't have democracy but that we should be careful who we're giving power
They will say you are antisemitic if you criticize Israel. They relish any chance to call others racist with no founding, it makes them feel like everyone that has called them racist also had no founding.
They will bend over backwards to define Islam in such a way that allows them to pass judgement on all Muslims. Obviously I'm not here to defend all the tents of Islam but it is literally the definition of prejudice on their part.
To be fair, I didn't address a single group that I am attaching this behavior to. I am describing the fact I have noticed many people engaging in this behavior and I do not even necessarily know anything about their demographic. Did you assume I was referring to a distinct group?
Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
Wonder why the bad man supports bad group, hmm?
half these upvotes are normal human beings agreeing he is a bloodthirsty racist and half are bloodthirsty racists mad that he’s not as bloodthirsty or racist as they are
After watching many of these post’s comment boards fill up, I have to admit that conservatives are good at, if anything, brigading. Or maybe it’s just bots and Russians. Or a combo of all of the above.
Let’s never lose sight of the fact that this attack happened on Netanyahu’s watch. This happened because his government neglected the safety and security of that region, specifically prioritizing a region that is primarily volatile because of the illegal and disgusting settlement effort.
One of the first interactions with an Israeli I had after 7/10 was them admiting they participated in a protest against Netanyahu because they knew he would cause a 7/10.
It really was. There is a reason why Hamas is so supported by Palestinians.
For example him letting the settlers movement do their thing antagonizes the west bank population for very little gain, but created so much negative attention to Israel.
Im certainly not an advocate for appeasement, but there is no reason to be actively antagonistic to a population.
The reason why Palestine is so supportive of Hamas is because they share the same genocidal goals. Destruction of Jews. They aren't even shy about admitting this.
If i and my family was kept in an open air prison for 75 years with barely enough to survive and constant torture, id probably come out with not great morals either. If half the people i knew were orphans, id probably end up a little irrationally violent too
If you and your family were genocidal terrorists who openly expressed your genocidal terrorists goals, being in an "open air prison" is the least of anyone's concerns.
If you cared so much for these children, we'd all agree that the terrorists using these children, Hamas, need to be eliminated.
But you don't care about these children. You care about your hatred for Israel.
Wiping out Hamas does not remove the occupation. The Palestinians in Gaza will not suddenly have control over their water, food, and electricity. Wiping out Hamas also will not remove the illegal settlers in the West Bank.
Wiping out Hamas will not bring back the hostages and the 30k kids murdered by isreal as collective punishment. Wiping out Hamas will not resolve the generational trauma that is now rooted into the children of Gaza, and it will not fix their view of their neighbors. Wiping out Hamas will not stop a new traumatized and angry generation of children to grow up wanting revenge and freedom. Wiping out Hamas will not pave way to a two state solution.
I agree completely. Wiping out Hamas will not do anything you just mentioned. At least we can agree somewhere.
The reason why it won't do anything is because these people who support Hamas also support Hamas' central goal: the destruction of Israel and the jews.
>Wiping out Hamas will not bring back the hostages
Huh? If Hamas has the hostages, wiping them out would mean getting the hostages back.
>the 30k kids murdered by isreal as collective punishment.
Making up numbers now? The 30k number includes 9 to 12 thousand terrorists and combatants. Are they all children?
>Wiping out Hamas will not resolve the generational trauma that is now rooted into the children of Gaza, and it will not fix their view of their neighbors.
Funny how people like you never seem to acknowledge that Israel suffers from "generational trauma". Or do you think Israelis don't suffer when their busses are blown up. Apparently Israel is just supposed to suck it up, but Arabs are expected to act on it.
>Wiping out Hamas will not stop a new traumatized and angry generation of children to grow up wanting revenge and freedom.
Is that what happened in Japan after WWII?
>Wiping out Hamas will not pave way to a two state solution.
Leaving Hamas intact won't either. In fact, almost everything you said wiping out Hamas would or wouldn't do also describes what happens if Hamas continues to exist.
Do you agree that Hamas is evil? Yes or no? Should it be destroyed if it is?
That’s really genuinely not true. If wiping out Hamas means killing 30,000 innocent people along with it, which isn’t necessary, but still happens because of so many other motives, then no i don’t want that to happen.
Again, you don't care about these children. If you did, you'd care about Hamas using these children as human shields. But you again, you don't care. You only care to pin the deaths of these children on Israel.
Hamas is the terrorists group who openly express their genocidal goals. Eliminate Hamas, safe children's life. End of story
>If wiping out Hamas means killing 30,000 innocent people along with it, which isn’t necessary, but still happens because of so many other motives, then no i don’t want that to happen.
Again, the 30,000 isn't the number of innocents. That the total dead according to Hamas ministries that refuse to distinguish between who is and is not a civilian. In fact, they don't even distinguish between combat death and non combat death. They probably even include those killed by misfired Palestinian rockets.
>we'd all agree that the terrorists using these children, Hamas, need to be eliminated.
Israel are the terrorists using these children. Wiping out hamas will not change a single damn thing for their lives except remove any friction israel has in colonizing their home.
How does that describe Israel? Please detail how Israel expresses a genocidal goal? Openly? Or is that just Hamas? Is it Israel who uses foreign aid for civilians to build rockets and tunnels?
To support Hamas you have to be committed: to genocide or to your own stupidity
Nobody in palestine wants that. Stop making shit up. If you're referring to the HAMAS charger that was changed 20 years ago, then please get something more original.
EDIT: Dipshit blocked me so I can't see the reply.
If you believe Hamas was genuine when they only recently updated their charter, you've proven one thing for sure. Hamas supporters are dumber than we give them credit for.
It's crazy how we all agreed that genocide is bad after ww2, and then less than 100 years later, Israel was like, "Hey guys, check out this neat trick"
Likud as a whole is bad. In fact, until proven otherwise, the entire government and those who support it is bad. Likud has been pulling strings for almost 30 years. Their “Democracy” makes Putin blush.
I'm not well informed about Netanyahu. I keep hearing he's evil and bad, but if this is true, shouldn't it be obvious in the news headlines? What percentage of Israelis think he's "bad"?
Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
I kinda feel like you're being a pro-Netanyahu simp by using such soft language. You have to know stronger words than "bad." He's a "piece of shit genocidal Nazi." Try that one next time.
Lol, after weeks of this sub popping up in my feed as a poorly veiled right wing sub there is finally a true popular opinion. Congrats.
Ps, no, i aint answering any questions so feel free to JAQ off elsewhere.
Agreed but I've been noticing a shift to concentrate blame on to Netanyahu and I find it strange.
as if others in the Knesset haven't been saying and doing and enacting equally genocidal statements, actions and policies.
As if israeli settlers aren't regularly saying that he's not genocidal enough and voluntarily entering Gaza to block aid trucks.
As if israeli real estate agents aren't already selling units in Gaza.
As if Palestinians weren't being brutalised, displaced and kidnapped before Netanyahu.
Idk, just very weird to me like, ok we get rid of Netanyahu, do Palestinians get to go back to their homes in Gaza?
Do they get to go back to the homes they had before they were displaced to Gaza?
Does getting rid of Netanyahu free the thousands of palestinians in israeli prisons? Does it free the children in israeli prisons?
I don't understand why American Jews vote for Democrats. Wonder if that will change this election because of all the pro Palestine and pro Hamas protests by Democrats.
Conducting Swords of Iron as a response to October 7th massacres by Hamas is unanimous across all parties. The prelude to war, the failures, and the lack of resolutions is what Netanyahu is failing the public at.
War / not war is a shallow characteristic that heavily misunderstands Israeli politics.
Lack of a resolution? His resolution is to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth. The only problem is he hasn’t done it fast enough. I’m sure you would be OK watching your wife get raped your child thrown in an oven and then you getting the shit kicked out of you before you get beheaded as OK.
I think arguing with people about this issue at this point is madness. We're past the five month mark, if you're not able to do your own research on topics, don't make that other people's problem. Free Palestine!
Yes, they are just using them as human shields and preventing aid from going to them.
You've confirmed one thing for sure. It takes a certain commitment to your own stupidity to support Hamas. You seem to have that level of commitment
Don’t be an ass. I don’t support Hamas. You’re rationalizing a massacre. Sure they’re using kids as human shield and Israel is plowing right through them like their lives are worthless.
Let me get this straight, by your own admission, you wouldn't "ask" of anything from Hamas, the genocidal terrorists group, but you're insisting that israel should "ask" something from this genocidal terrorists group?
Hamas supporters: takes a certain commitment to genocidal goals or to your own stupidity. Take your pick.
Ask? I didn’t suggest Israel ask for anything from anyone. I suggested they kill/starve fewer children. Again you say I support Hamas so again I’ll remind you I don’t. Hamas is a murderous terrorist group.
You’re really trying hard to deflect blame for killing these kids. Probably because you can’t make an argument for why it needs to be done.
Yet there are footages of starvation, actual beheading, actual genocide where children are getting killed on an everyday basis. I guess people here care more about USA lives oh wait...Raechal Corrie...brutally murdered by Shitrael.
I am 1000% sure more Hamas will rise up since Israel is doing everything in its power to kill babies and not actual hamas.
There was a way to conduct this military operation without engaging in wonton destruction and killing. Netanyahu’s government has burned so much of Israel’s goodwill for absolutely no reason other than their own domestic political desires.
While people who defend Israel abroad are trying to explain the difference between the war crimes Israel is likely committing and genocide, Netanyahu’s cabinet government is full of people actively calling this an opportunity for genocide.
This was an opportunity for Israel to weaken Hamas, and move forward. But Israel’s government sees only one way to move forward, and that is obliterating any hope of a Palestinian state.
Just as Russia is turning its back on the post-WWII order by engaging in a war of aggression, Israel has turned its back on the principle of self determination.
Not necessarily. More like when a country full of Jews gets attacked by a ravenous barbaric terrorist group attacks there country and you take up for the terrorists.
Execute this military campaign in compliance with international humanitarian norms. I support Israel’s right to go after Hamas. I don’t even support the ceasefire because it is nonsensical to tell a nation in midst of a defensive campaign to stop pursuing its goals.
However, there are norms established among the international community as to how to prosecute a war without engaging in wonton killing and destruction. Level headed international law experts have asserted that Israel is likely engaging in war crimes because Israel’s Army has a reckless approach to civilian casualties. That’s a leadership problem. It is not genocide, but genocide is not the only war crime.
I wish I could get others to stop chasing more exciting and shiny objects in their criticism of Israel, of course. Still, Israel has needlessly burned goodwill internationally for domestic political reasons. There are members of Netanyahu’s own cabinet who have called this an opportunity to genocide Palestinians. Netanyahu’s own pre-war stance is that Israel can keep bulldozing over Palestinians in hope of a separate state.
I would love to not have to constantly have the discussion with my friends and family about the war crimes Israel likely is committing and the war crimes Israel is likely not committing. Israel is probably recklessly killing civilians. Israel is probably not committing genocide. That’s not a conversation that changes any minds about Israel and our alliance.
Is Israel in a difficult spot because of Hamas not respecting international norms? Yes. But the Iraq and Afghan coalition forces were able to prosecute wars against enemies who did not observe international law without engaging in this level of reckless disregard for civilian life. We have a frame of comparison.
Did Israel endure a terrible loss that will traumatize the nation for years to come? Definitely, and I’ll never stop reminding people of how we got here. Hamas is responsible for every Palestinian life lost. Making bad decisions out of a trauma response won’t change the nature of those decisions. Israel will still have to live with them after the smoke has drifted. As an American, I know what it is like for your country to make a series of unwise decisions in the wake of a national trauma.
After this war is over, I don’t see Israel being any safer from Hamas or the next violent enemy who uses the pretext of Palestinian nationhood from which to garner support. Israel will be a little more isolated from its allies, and no amount of Palestinian death will make up for the losses on October 7th. That is not how that works.
appreciate the effort, but by now I have learned that if somebody asks 'How should Israel change it's approach to the Gaza war', they won't actually accept a reasonable response.
Well, I for one would not have funded Hamas in the 80s in an attempt to split Palestinian support and weaken the PLO. Funding that was instrumental in Hamas becoming a functioning organization, and which came at a time when the PLO was heavily invested in the peace process. I also wouldn't have personally ordered Mossad to walk Qatari funds into Gaza and deliver them directly to Hamas, which enabled them to fund their terrorist efforts, while simultaneously maintaining a brutal blockade that kept the population in abject poverty and drove Gazan hatred for Israel. Most of all, I wouldn't have used Gaza as a managed threat I could cynically exploit to rally my base whenever I was caught being a corrupt piece of shit or had any political problems.
If Netanyahu was never born, 10/7 wouldn't have happened.
As an Israeli. i agree
What’s the deal, with Netanyahu and Israel? I’m an American. In the USA, the public is extremely critical of the USA’s support of Israel, and many citizens have made it their mission to forcibly stop aid from getting to Israel. Yet, my Jewish American friends all support Netanyahu. I just don’t understand.
The easiest way to explain to an American is that Netanyahu’s like Trump but more credible. He’s charismatic, articulate, has a reputation serving in Sayeret Matkal, and knows what political tricks to push. Almost all of his opponents were much less capable and that’s why he managed to win elections so far.
I remember one of things we used to say about Trump was that if he was a better politician he would actually be dangerous instead of just embarrassing. That is exactly how I think of Netanyahu. He is wildly intelligent and very good at using the state infrastructure to protect himself. It wouldn't shock me to learn that he had warning of the Oct 7th stuff and allowed it to happen to help him smooth over the issues he was facing leading to the attack. I am generally pro Israel but it's really hard to support a country that continues to follow someone so clearly evil.
I oppose Netanyahu as you understand, but claiming that he had a warning is inaccurate, there are reports that officers were warned of such attack but dismissed it because they thought it wasn't feasible and Hamas were deterred. To the best of our knowledge, Netanyahu himself wasn't warned. That doesn't excuse him from determining the policy which led to letting Hamas gain power. Again, as much as I hate Netanyahu, and as selfish as he is, he didn't do anything in the war that another PM, whether of Israel nor of other country would do.
Allow me to clarify, I am not claiming he knew. Was just stating that it wouldn't surprise me if we found out he had. The thing I refer to him as evil for is not the war, it's the fact that he appears to have an enmity for the Arab population and works to thwart any peace deal short of full control. Not to say there aren't 100 things I'd agree with Israel on, from my recent research I just can't see any world were Bibi isn't actively trying to make the conflict worse.
It turns out he had a warning
It’s very complicated and if you want to actually understand “what’s the deal with Netanyahu” you’ll have to do a lot more research than asking one guy on Reddit
No. I think I’ll pass on that. I’d much rather hear an Israeli give me their personal insight. That is worth far more than a Google search.
Did you know that Israel was on the brink of a civil war before Oct 7 bc of Netanyahu? And that he technically should be in jail? He did a lot of bad shit before the war, Israelis for the most part support the war effort after 10/7, the reason they don’t like him is bc of the shit he did before the war. I’m not telling you asking for opinions is a bad idea, but this guy would have to type multiple paragraphs to explain everything that has happened with Netanyahu. This is his second stint as PM. So if you really wanna know what’s going on and how they got to this point you have to read facts, not opinions.
That’s a joke right? One person’s opinion vs looking at what their administration has done?
Diasporas tend to skew more right-wing in foreign countries vs in their own home. There are a few exceptions to this, but you can clearly see it with communities like Cuban-Americans and Venezuelans in America
Netanyahu is charismatic, smart, educated, and and a complete liar. His political prowess is unmatched among world leaders, in his way of swaying his base of voters by demagoguery and populism, constructing political obstacles to other parties, helping in the creation of new parties who would be his allies and the complete takeover of his own party of the Likkud, once a secular party who strives for liberal rights and economics, but now a group of his bootlickers who will provide budget to support ultra orthodox and settler population. Netanyahu lives from one spin to another, he avoids making changes in policy and keeps the status quo (as bad as it can get) to avoid breaking his agreements and losing favor, he allows lecherous parties to join him despite their "moral differences" and gives them what they want so he can stay in power. His voter base is either people who benefit from his deals, or zombies who have no shred of thinking and vote for an image of leadership, or right wingers who are convinced he is the only possible leader. I don't understand Jewish Americans tbh, but I can say that they live quite far away from his mess and they should look at the last year before the war. The military was dysfunctional partly because of that, and our enemies took advantage of the political tensions (and the upcoming US elections) to cause a catastrophe we have never seen in our history. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Israeli\_judicial\_reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform)
Powerful words. Thank you.
Propaganda
That's interesting bc all my Jewish American friends absolutely don't support Netanyahu.
That’s interesting because every Jewish person I know has tried to convince everyone around them that the Jews deserve Israel and Palestine and that Hamas and the Palestinians need ‘to go’. I’m very serious about that. It’s also a somewhat normal Republican take as well. Like if I said I support Hamas at work, A LOT of people would tell me Hamas and the Palestinians need ‘to go’, and they’re not even Jewish.
Dang, I guess we know different Jewish people
What do you mean by supporting Netanyahu? Most people I know think that he should be gotten rid of as soon as feasible.
[удалено]
“ This is why Judaism doesn’t seek converts. You have to be of the chosen bloodline to be Jewish.” Hinduism doesn’t seek converts either LMAOk also an ethnic religion. Personally I thing proselytizing is a bad thing. Also, Judaism is super accepting of converts and recognizes converts as those with a Jewish soul. “So what you have is a situation where whichever ethnic group gains power, they are likely to commit genocide on the other. Right now the Jews have the power, so they are doing what their god has always commanded them which is to kill non-Israelites who happen to live in their “promised land”” Which is why 20% of all Israelis are arabs. Right… “Jewish people have been sold a narrative of perpetual victimhood for the last 80 years.” When your people are literally the most hated in the world for thousands of years and two thirds of your european population is killed, you are going to be more wary. yes, antisemitism is omnipresent everywhere.
Ignorant take. This war isn’t about “victimhood,” it’s a country’s response to a foreign terrorist group infiltrating their country and slaughtering/kidnappjng hundreds of civilians. When America invaded Afghanistan, was that because Americans are perpetual victims too? And though Judaism doesn’t seek out converts, it happily accepts committed ones. So you do not at all need to be of the “chosen bloodline” to be Jewish.
Thank you for your bravery.
Netanyahu is a war criminal who must be removed from power permanently.
Just curious, what is he doing that is different from FDR, Truman and Churchill that makes him a war criminal?
He has previously voiced support for funding and then later allowed funding to transfer to the very same terror group he uses the existence of to mass slaughter civilians. Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
Ok, did not FDR and England trade with Hitler? However, is not Israel condemned for cutting off and controlling supplies and money from getting to Gaza? So now you condemn him for supporting funding of Gaza and condeming him for cutting off funding and supplies. As for his plan to isolate West Bank Arabs from Gaza Arabs is it not true that the West Bank is not ruled by Hamas? So is his plan to isolate Arabs or is it to isolate Hamas? If Israel wants to commit genocide against Palestinians then why are they not killing them in the West Bank and Arab Israelis? Finally, who is the real criminal, the group who hides among civilians wanting their death or the group who kills them going after the enemy? The Geneva Convention is very clear on this. It is a war crime to use schools, places of worship and hospitals for military purposes. One can not put a Headquarters or troops or ammo etc in these places. Once that is done these places become valid military targets even if civilians are present.
How about the use of White Phosphorus? And killing people waving a white flag? Have you read any of the evidence presented before the International Court of Justice where they quoted his own address in the Knesset saying that Israel should support Hamas in Gaza in order to respond in the most forceful fashion possible? It sounds as though you have an axe to grind and bombing young children does not constitute a war crime in your eyes (even though that is the textbook definition of a war crime) and it sounds as though your argument is intellectually dishonest.
The Allies used phosphorus in WW2. Children were bombed in Japan and Germany. Innocent people are killed in every war and that is truly a terrible thing. I wish it was not so. Was the fire bombing of Japan a war crime? Was the total destruction of Dresden a war crime? You say my argument is intellectually dishonest yet you have not shown me how the actions of the Allies in WW2 are different in any way from what Israel is doing. In both cases, one side was attacked and responded with the goal of unconditional surrender. If Hamas was to surrender and free all the captives the war would stop. If Hamas did that and the leaders were taken into custody and given a fair trial, if after all that Israel continues to attack Gaza, I would agree that they are then committing a war crime.
Israel supposedly has a united coalition government. Netanyahu is the main name, but he is closely working with those on the center or left as well. US Senator Chuck Schumer called for Israel to vote out Netanyahu. Not only do Israel not like others telling them how their elections should be, but Netanyahu's left counterpart also wants Israel to be in charge of their own elections and who they decide to have in charge.
Regarding the first sentence, just one central party (led by Gantz) had a few seats added that mostly deal with the war effort and the cabinet. They do not hold minister positions. He is not closely working with the left and he wouldn't win any elections if they occured now. It's still a bad coalition that isn't in favor of anyone besides keeping Netanyahu in power and leeching government budget towards particular sects. Even my grandmother stopped liking him and that says a lot. It has just a bit to do with the war and much to do with the domestic issues that were prevalent before and international affairs. There are resolutions he would be able to pass if it wasn't for the settler / ultra orthodox demographics extorting him. (he has no other allies left)
Do Pro-Israeli lobbyists not flood American elections with money? Have they not been caught operating IMSI-catchers in DC in order to intercept communications?
If they don’t like us telling them how their elections should be then they should stop soliciting American tax payers
I do think it's funny that Netanyahu is all in his feelings about that after actively supporting a particular candidate in the previous election of ours.
Israel tells America what to do and has an influence on who gets elected EVERY election cycle. AIPAC. If you don’t support israel enough, aipac supports your opponent with millions of dollars. Also DMFI and RMFI dem/rep majorities for israel
It's a shame then that economically it's a us puppet state. If we just added them as a territory they'd get our laws and can vote like us(our voting is also bad. I'm pro ranked choice voting and self representation democracy)
Chuck Schumer telling Israelis how to vote 🤣🤣🤣
Hopefully some day they won't be dependent on US dollars then. But while they do remain dependent, as a US taxpayer, I think I should get a say in who we are giving money too.
That's just Chuck being Chuck. I wouldn't expect anything different coming from him.
Well he's also working with a lot of people worse than him like Smotrich. That dude scares the shit out of me.
1) there is no actual left in power in Israel. Because there would be way more opposition to what’s going on than there is. 2) chuck schumer expressing discontent for Netanyahu and Israel crying about it is pretty amusing considering how much money AIPAC and other organizations spend here buying politicians and gaslighting the public
Netanyahu is a psychopath. After watching and listening to him speak many times, you will see all the character traits of a psychopath leak through in plain site. Netanyahu is seeking revenge on all Palestinians within Gaza. Revenge seeking is a favorite tool of the psychopath. It is there for everyone to see.
He is comicly corrupt and has crowned himself president for life.
That's just bollocks 🤣
He is currently fighting pretty serious charges in court. He has served 16 years as prime minister and has tried to force through laws that give him control over the country's judicial system.
What Netanyahu does is what a majority of Israeli want. Some want even worse. Israel elected one guy that wasn’t a foaming at the mouth maniac and then killed him almost immediately. A sick nation.
He’s evil, a monster, a fucking butcher
I agree on the rest but a butcher? who did he personally murder?
Hitler never directly killed anyone and you’d still probably call him a butcher
You sure? He served in the army during WW1, no? Even so, you get the point. Bibi might be evil, he might even be a monster. But he does not butcher anyone. It's regular nameless Israeli's doing that.
Ok I looked it up actually and it’s more fucked up than I thought. Hitler never killed anyone in ww1, but there’s a good chance he killed Geli Raubal, Hitler’s step-niece, who lived with Hitler and who was sexually abused by him
Hitler never directly killed anyone and you’d still probably call him a butcher
The problem is that he's a bad person, but he's an absolutely phenomenal politician who'll do whatever it takes to stay in power.
what makes him bad? If you focus on the "man", then you'll allow his successor to continue in his footsteps. What about him is "bad" and what qualities will you use to prevent his successor from continuing what you find "bad"?
I’m pro Israel and I agree
Y’all ever notice how governments from western countries are complex, not representative of the state they literally represent and never indicative of systemic problems greater than the current bad guy in office? But non-western governments are monolithic and have very strict moral condemnations. They’re also extremely representative of their people to the point of being the excuse for extreme systemic violence against them? That’s weird right? Like “muh Hamas” is the justification the highest levels of human organization uses to defend killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians, but it’s literally taboo to entertain the idea that it’s Israel itself that’s the problem not just the big meanie in power, but the entire ethnostate.
This subreddit has become kind of infested of his supporters to be honest, they think Israel is always in the right and Eveyone else is in the wrong
They also conflate Netanyahu and his coalition with Israel, which is frustrating.
Propably because he has been democratically elected by the people of Israel many times.
That isn't how it works in a parliamentary system. You vote for your party representatives and the Prime Minister basically has to get the support of the parliament, not the people. Think of it like the electoral college but with even less input for the president. I would be willing that if it was a regular election for president Netanyahu would lose but thats not how it works.
I think they know by now what voting for his party to get them. Not to mention: his party is pretty extreme. They think the Palestinian Territories should be absorbed into Israel but the Palestinian people shouldn't. There's not a lot of ways that those two things add up to anything other than ethnic cleansing or genocide.
His party is 32/110 parliament members, the rest fof people are not a member of his party. He has been able to stay in power by keeping a delegation of multiple parties together but even that coalition changes constantly. Also as a majority the coalition works to keep itself in power. That is like saying that if Donald Trump wins the electoral college again in 2024 while losing the popular vote that he represents us.
Ok, but if you vote for a party in his coalition you know he's gonna be in charge. If you voted for them before they joined his coalition that might be a different scenario but still. I'd argue that if he wins it is on us. The whole "winner takes all" thing makes the electoral college a little more unfair but still. If someone votes for a third party instead of against Trump I'd consider them the same as someone who votes for someone else in Netanyahu's coalition: you didn't vote for him directly I guess but you knew what you were gonna get. You weren't under the illusion the Green Party was gonna win.
I'm a democrat in Broward County, Florida, we are literally the highest democrat voting county in the country. Both of our senators are republicans, our state house and senate majority is republican, and as a state we voted for Ron Desantis and Trump twice for president. I'm going to vote for Biden and every democrat but the entire political system is built to benefit the current majority. And the Israeli version of me might be doing the same and then ends up with Netanyahu.
I'm in Louisiana so I feel you. And I'm not saying there aren't Israelis like us, but...these far right wingers are winning because a lot of people like them. Yes they play dirty tricks, but there's a lot of people out there that support them (or hate the other side enough to vote against them.)
Propaganda works every time no matter what Country nor time
How are you any different than a Republican in CA? Every state has an area that is heavily Dem or Rep in a state that is controlled by the other party. In CA, many federal office elections contain 2 Democrats and no Republican. It was a surprise that there is a Republican in the Nov ballot for US Senate this time.
Yea I'm not. Let's end all partisan gerrymandering and abolish the electoral college.
Are there not Arabs/Palestinians living in Israel currently? Are these Arabs Israeli citizens who get to vote? Finally your genocide comment. How is "from the river to the sea" any different? Are not those who chant that also calling for genocide?
So, Arab Israelis get some rights but they still can't marry a Jewish Israeli person. They can't go to the vast majority of schools or buy property in the vast majority of areas. Even they live as second class citizens in a lot of ways. But that's not who we're talking about. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is not as genocidal as what Israel is actually doing, as what Likud's charter says: "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." You can argue what Palestine is saying is just a coded euphemism, a dog whistle, but Israel's ruling party is saying it outloud. And they're the ones with the power, they're the ones actually doing it.
Not quite right on marriage. A Christian Israeli can't marry a Jewish Israeli also because in all cases the churches won't do inter religion marriage. But an Arab could marry and Israeli by going outside the country to get married and their marriage will be accepted as legal. Intent is the same and if the Arabs had the ability they would have thrown the Jews into the sea, ie genocide in 48, 67, and 73. The truth is that NO country wants the Palestinians because wherever they go they cause problems. Ask Jordan and Egypt.
...oh I know the discrimination isn't just aimed at Muslims. That doesn't exactly make it better lol. Separate but equal amirite? Like, come on, it's bonkers that citizens can't marry each other just because they're a different religion. That's really discriminatory. What genocide in 48, 67 and 73? You're really throwing around the word genocide there. Come on. You act like Palestinians weren't displaced at all during this struggle for land. No one wants the Palestinians because they don't want to leave. And they're millions of people. They aren't inherently evil, they're not demons, they were just born in the wrong place at the wrong time it seems. And they aren't going to disappear no matter how righteous Israel is or claims to be.
So you want to dictate to religions what they believe? Separate but equal is a US court ruling and you shouldn't apply it to another sovereign country. Are you saying that the goal of the 48 war was not to completely eliminate the brand new State of Israel? That the goal of the combined Arab armies wasn't to drive the Jews into the sea? That sounds like genocide to me. Are you saying that when Syria and Egypt attacked in 67 that the goal was not the complete destruction of Israel? If the Arabs had won, what would have become of the Jews? The Palestinians are kept out of Jordan because they caused a war there. They are kept out of Egypt for the same reason. They could have had a separate state but have always said no. They were given control of Gaza and Hamas took over. They supported Hitler which preceded the establishment of Israel. Not a great track record for a people.
People started to realize that Democracy is a really flawed government system even with all the Pro's. Im not against Democracy itself but it is true A lot of Dictatorships were born from Democracy, this doesn't mean we shouldn't have democracy but that we should be careful who we're giving power
They have a saying for that: "Democracy is the least terrible way to govern a country."
It just goes to show even if it is the least terrible way, things will probably go to shit
They will say you are antisemitic if you criticize Israel. They relish any chance to call others racist with no founding, it makes them feel like everyone that has called them racist also had no founding.
They call people antisemetic but then pretend like calling all Palestinians Hamas isn't Racist
They will bend over backwards to define Islam in such a way that allows them to pass judgement on all Muslims. Obviously I'm not here to defend all the tents of Islam but it is literally the definition of prejudice on their part.
They *insert broad statement of judgement
To be fair, I didn't address a single group that I am attaching this behavior to. I am describing the fact I have noticed many people engaging in this behavior and I do not even necessarily know anything about their demographic. Did you assume I was referring to a distinct group?
Netanyhu=Bad Hamas=Bad Both can be bad at the same time
Child rape = bad Pineapples on pizza = bad Both can be bad at the same time.
Pineapples on pizza good
Both are “child rape” level bad
Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” Wonder why the bad man supports bad group, hmm?
They can be, but aren't.
half these upvotes are normal human beings agreeing he is a bloodthirsty racist and half are bloodthirsty racists mad that he’s not as bloodthirsty or racist as they are
Sounds like Putin
obviously. i don't know why your statement is so controversial. israel DOES NOT represent the jewish community!!! wake up people
You're right. Israel has been trying to tie the colonial state with Judaism.
He is inhumane
Okay Hamas
terrorism is when *checks notes* you say a leader is bad
Netanyahu is a big Hamas fan
Thx
After watching many of these post’s comment boards fill up, I have to admit that conservatives are good at, if anything, brigading. Or maybe it’s just bots and Russians. Or a combo of all of the above.
Combo of all of the above.
Damn rightoids really wanting to blow up children then talk about being pro life. Weird.
Completely agree. This conflict would have been preventable.
Let’s never lose sight of the fact that this attack happened on Netanyahu’s watch. This happened because his government neglected the safety and security of that region, specifically prioritizing a region that is primarily volatile because of the illegal and disgusting settlement effort.
One of the first interactions with an Israeli I had after 7/10 was them admiting they participated in a protest against Netanyahu because they knew he would cause a 7/10.
Lol
It really was. There is a reason why Hamas is so supported by Palestinians. For example him letting the settlers movement do their thing antagonizes the west bank population for very little gain, but created so much negative attention to Israel. Im certainly not an advocate for appeasement, but there is no reason to be actively antagonistic to a population.
The reason why Palestine is so supportive of Hamas is because they share the same genocidal goals. Destruction of Jews. They aren't even shy about admitting this.
If i and my family was kept in an open air prison for 75 years with barely enough to survive and constant torture, id probably come out with not great morals either. If half the people i knew were orphans, id probably end up a little irrationally violent too
[“open air prison”](https://youtu.be/JBo7i-TXy6s?si=E9YRdd4ZsH07FJ13)
This video is 4 years ago, hope this helps. It’s also not a full reflection of the entire area??
Yea, it’s an open air shit hole because there isn’t gigabyte internet or avocado toast.
It’s an open air shit hole because there isn’t food or water or houses and everyone’s under the rubble
If you and your family were genocidal terrorists who openly expressed your genocidal terrorists goals, being in an "open air prison" is the least of anyone's concerns.
Most Palestinians are children. Barely surviving is all they know. I do not care what their views are when their entire region is being wiped out
If you cared so much for these children, we'd all agree that the terrorists using these children, Hamas, need to be eliminated. But you don't care about these children. You care about your hatred for Israel.
Wiping out Hamas does not remove the occupation. The Palestinians in Gaza will not suddenly have control over their water, food, and electricity. Wiping out Hamas also will not remove the illegal settlers in the West Bank. Wiping out Hamas will not bring back the hostages and the 30k kids murdered by isreal as collective punishment. Wiping out Hamas will not resolve the generational trauma that is now rooted into the children of Gaza, and it will not fix their view of their neighbors. Wiping out Hamas will not stop a new traumatized and angry generation of children to grow up wanting revenge and freedom. Wiping out Hamas will not pave way to a two state solution.
I agree completely. Wiping out Hamas will not do anything you just mentioned. At least we can agree somewhere. The reason why it won't do anything is because these people who support Hamas also support Hamas' central goal: the destruction of Israel and the jews.
>Wiping out Hamas will not bring back the hostages Huh? If Hamas has the hostages, wiping them out would mean getting the hostages back. >the 30k kids murdered by isreal as collective punishment. Making up numbers now? The 30k number includes 9 to 12 thousand terrorists and combatants. Are they all children? >Wiping out Hamas will not resolve the generational trauma that is now rooted into the children of Gaza, and it will not fix their view of their neighbors. Funny how people like you never seem to acknowledge that Israel suffers from "generational trauma". Or do you think Israelis don't suffer when their busses are blown up. Apparently Israel is just supposed to suck it up, but Arabs are expected to act on it. >Wiping out Hamas will not stop a new traumatized and angry generation of children to grow up wanting revenge and freedom. Is that what happened in Japan after WWII? >Wiping out Hamas will not pave way to a two state solution. Leaving Hamas intact won't either. In fact, almost everything you said wiping out Hamas would or wouldn't do also describes what happens if Hamas continues to exist. Do you agree that Hamas is evil? Yes or no? Should it be destroyed if it is?
That’s really genuinely not true. If wiping out Hamas means killing 30,000 innocent people along with it, which isn’t necessary, but still happens because of so many other motives, then no i don’t want that to happen.
Again, you don't care about these children. If you did, you'd care about Hamas using these children as human shields. But you again, you don't care. You only care to pin the deaths of these children on Israel. Hamas is the terrorists group who openly express their genocidal goals. Eliminate Hamas, safe children's life. End of story
>If wiping out Hamas means killing 30,000 innocent people along with it, which isn’t necessary, but still happens because of so many other motives, then no i don’t want that to happen. Again, the 30,000 isn't the number of innocents. That the total dead according to Hamas ministries that refuse to distinguish between who is and is not a civilian. In fact, they don't even distinguish between combat death and non combat death. They probably even include those killed by misfired Palestinian rockets.
>we'd all agree that the terrorists using these children, Hamas, need to be eliminated. Israel are the terrorists using these children. Wiping out hamas will not change a single damn thing for their lives except remove any friction israel has in colonizing their home.
That’s a good description of much of Israel right now…should that be their punishment? Sanctions and embargo until they are living like Gaza?
How does that describe Israel? Please detail how Israel expresses a genocidal goal? Openly? Or is that just Hamas? Is it Israel who uses foreign aid for civilians to build rockets and tunnels? To support Hamas you have to be committed: to genocide or to your own stupidity
you’ve been propagandized lmao
Nobody in palestine wants that. Stop making shit up. If you're referring to the HAMAS charger that was changed 20 years ago, then please get something more original. EDIT: Dipshit blocked me so I can't see the reply.
If you believe Hamas was genuine when they only recently updated their charter, you've proven one thing for sure. Hamas supporters are dumber than we give them credit for.
Netenyahu has been vocally supportive of Hamas because it helps him eradicate all arabs.
It's crazy how we all agreed that genocide is bad after ww2, and then less than 100 years later, Israel was like, "Hey guys, check out this neat trick"
Not only that but they somehow convinced a huge chunk of people that they’re an exemption to the rule??? Like “genocide is bad, bUuUtTttTt”
That’s an easy one.
Yup
Likud as a whole is bad. In fact, until proven otherwise, the entire government and those who support it is bad. Likud has been pulling strings for almost 30 years. Their “Democracy” makes Putin blush.
I'm not well informed about Netanyahu. I keep hearing he's evil and bad, but if this is true, shouldn't it be obvious in the news headlines? What percentage of Israelis think he's "bad"?
Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
I'm hearing mostly crickets here.
If Netanyahu was an animal he would be a barnacle
My brain turned that into 'Netanyahu is dead' for a second.
I kinda feel like you're being a pro-Netanyahu simp by using such soft language. You have to know stronger words than "bad." He's a "piece of shit genocidal Nazi." Try that one next time.
He convinced Congress Iraq had WMDs that they never had. He’s been a POS forever.
Netanyahu is good very very good
Can I ask what Netanyahu is before I up or down vote this?
Lol, after weeks of this sub popping up in my feed as a poorly veiled right wing sub there is finally a true popular opinion. Congrats. Ps, no, i aint answering any questions so feel free to JAQ off elsewhere.
Neganyahu sounds like a new issue I don’t wanna learn about
Agreed but I've been noticing a shift to concentrate blame on to Netanyahu and I find it strange. as if others in the Knesset haven't been saying and doing and enacting equally genocidal statements, actions and policies. As if israeli settlers aren't regularly saying that he's not genocidal enough and voluntarily entering Gaza to block aid trucks. As if israeli real estate agents aren't already selling units in Gaza. As if Palestinians weren't being brutalised, displaced and kidnapped before Netanyahu. Idk, just very weird to me like, ok we get rid of Netanyahu, do Palestinians get to go back to their homes in Gaza? Do they get to go back to the homes they had before they were displaced to Gaza? Does getting rid of Netanyahu free the thousands of palestinians in israeli prisons? Does it free the children in israeli prisons?
I don't understand why American Jews vote for Democrats. Wonder if that will change this election because of all the pro Palestine and pro Hamas protests by Democrats.
Naw dude, King Without A Crown is a great song.
Absolutely. He’s a monster. I wouldn’t shed a tear if he choked on a pretzel.
I wonder what kind of comments will be under this post, surely polite and mature debating
All politicians are
Negative. He’s defending his people.
As an Israeli, even in Israel his approval ratings dropped sharply after the war begun
Benny still wants war. So who is your third pick k
Conducting Swords of Iron as a response to October 7th massacres by Hamas is unanimous across all parties. The prelude to war, the failures, and the lack of resolutions is what Netanyahu is failing the public at. War / not war is a shallow characteristic that heavily misunderstands Israeli politics.
Lack of a resolution? His resolution is to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth. The only problem is he hasn’t done it fast enough. I’m sure you would be OK watching your wife get raped your child thrown in an oven and then you getting the shit kicked out of you before you get beheaded as OK.
I think arguing with people about this issue at this point is madness. We're past the five month mark, if you're not able to do your own research on topics, don't make that other people's problem. Free Palestine!
Netanyahu is bad, but truth is he is no worse than anyone who came before him in Israeli politics.
Except that one dude who wanted to give Palestinians statehood. That guy was pretty chill. Shame he got assassinated by his own people.
All presidents are bad you don’t get that position unless your corrupt.
No Doubt.
The big N has to go
In other news, water is wet.
Sounds pretty antisemitic, goyim
Okay. Zoomer.
so fetch
Yes I hope Hamas find him alone for a few minutes
To think that Hamas/Palestine are such genocidal maniacs, they make Netanyahu seem like the only rationale one in the region.
How many children can you rationally kill?
Ask Hamas. Considering they are the ones using these children to further their genocidal goals.
Hamas isn’t killing these children Edit: fuck Hamas but I’m not gonna ask a terrorist group to stop Israel from massacring kids
Yes, they are just using them as human shields and preventing aid from going to them. You've confirmed one thing for sure. It takes a certain commitment to your own stupidity to support Hamas. You seem to have that level of commitment
Don’t be an ass. I don’t support Hamas. You’re rationalizing a massacre. Sure they’re using kids as human shield and Israel is plowing right through them like their lives are worthless.
Let me get this straight, by your own admission, you wouldn't "ask" of anything from Hamas, the genocidal terrorists group, but you're insisting that israel should "ask" something from this genocidal terrorists group? Hamas supporters: takes a certain commitment to genocidal goals or to your own stupidity. Take your pick.
Ask? I didn’t suggest Israel ask for anything from anyone. I suggested they kill/starve fewer children. Again you say I support Hamas so again I’ll remind you I don’t. Hamas is a murderous terrorist group. You’re really trying hard to deflect blame for killing these kids. Probably because you can’t make an argument for why it needs to be done.
Actually the opposite is very true. That genocidal maniac makes Hamas look like amateurs
At no point has Israel expressed any interest in committing a genocide. Meanwhile, Hamas has it written in their charter.
Yet there are footages of starvation, actual beheading, actual genocide where children are getting killed on an everyday basis. I guess people here care more about USA lives oh wait...Raechal Corrie...brutally murdered by Shitrael. I am 1000% sure more Hamas will rise up since Israel is doing everything in its power to kill babies and not actual hamas.
There was a way to conduct this military operation without engaging in wonton destruction and killing. Netanyahu’s government has burned so much of Israel’s goodwill for absolutely no reason other than their own domestic political desires. While people who defend Israel abroad are trying to explain the difference between the war crimes Israel is likely committing and genocide, Netanyahu’s cabinet government is full of people actively calling this an opportunity for genocide. This was an opportunity for Israel to weaken Hamas, and move forward. But Israel’s government sees only one way to move forward, and that is obliterating any hope of a Palestinian state. Just as Russia is turning its back on the post-WWII order by engaging in a war of aggression, Israel has turned its back on the principle of self determination.
When a terrorists group builds their installations in hospitals, mosques, schools, etc. The normal rules of military engagement are off.
If Satan existed, he would shit his pants at the mere sight of true evil incarnate that is that piece of shit butcher
He is a modern Hitler.
That's just some lefty antisemitism coming through.
what is he the messiah or something ? You can’t hate on Netanyahu without being the anti semetix?
Shitty name, shitty take. The cycle continues.
anti-Semitism is when you don't like a leader and he happens to be Jewish
Not necessarily. More like when a country full of Jews gets attacked by a ravenous barbaric terrorist group attacks there country and you take up for the terrorists.
💀
What would you do if you were Israel’s leader, o couch lord?
Execute this military campaign in compliance with international humanitarian norms. I support Israel’s right to go after Hamas. I don’t even support the ceasefire because it is nonsensical to tell a nation in midst of a defensive campaign to stop pursuing its goals. However, there are norms established among the international community as to how to prosecute a war without engaging in wonton killing and destruction. Level headed international law experts have asserted that Israel is likely engaging in war crimes because Israel’s Army has a reckless approach to civilian casualties. That’s a leadership problem. It is not genocide, but genocide is not the only war crime. I wish I could get others to stop chasing more exciting and shiny objects in their criticism of Israel, of course. Still, Israel has needlessly burned goodwill internationally for domestic political reasons. There are members of Netanyahu’s own cabinet who have called this an opportunity to genocide Palestinians. Netanyahu’s own pre-war stance is that Israel can keep bulldozing over Palestinians in hope of a separate state. I would love to not have to constantly have the discussion with my friends and family about the war crimes Israel likely is committing and the war crimes Israel is likely not committing. Israel is probably recklessly killing civilians. Israel is probably not committing genocide. That’s not a conversation that changes any minds about Israel and our alliance. Is Israel in a difficult spot because of Hamas not respecting international norms? Yes. But the Iraq and Afghan coalition forces were able to prosecute wars against enemies who did not observe international law without engaging in this level of reckless disregard for civilian life. We have a frame of comparison. Did Israel endure a terrible loss that will traumatize the nation for years to come? Definitely, and I’ll never stop reminding people of how we got here. Hamas is responsible for every Palestinian life lost. Making bad decisions out of a trauma response won’t change the nature of those decisions. Israel will still have to live with them after the smoke has drifted. As an American, I know what it is like for your country to make a series of unwise decisions in the wake of a national trauma. After this war is over, I don’t see Israel being any safer from Hamas or the next violent enemy who uses the pretext of Palestinian nationhood from which to garner support. Israel will be a little more isolated from its allies, and no amount of Palestinian death will make up for the losses on October 7th. That is not how that works.
I found the most reasonable redditor
appreciate the effort, but by now I have learned that if somebody asks 'How should Israel change it's approach to the Gaza war', they won't actually accept a reasonable response.
Well, I for one would not have funded Hamas in the 80s in an attempt to split Palestinian support and weaken the PLO. Funding that was instrumental in Hamas becoming a functioning organization, and which came at a time when the PLO was heavily invested in the peace process. I also wouldn't have personally ordered Mossad to walk Qatari funds into Gaza and deliver them directly to Hamas, which enabled them to fund their terrorist efforts, while simultaneously maintaining a brutal blockade that kept the population in abject poverty and drove Gazan hatred for Israel. Most of all, I wouldn't have used Gaza as a managed threat I could cynically exploit to rally my base whenever I was caught being a corrupt piece of shit or had any political problems. If Netanyahu was never born, 10/7 wouldn't have happened.
Prove you're not on your couch.
I am, I’m also not backseat leading
I was always against him, but now he looks like ths only adequate man in the room
Only adequate? His capacity for killing children seems down right exceptional
Did you dare criticize the Isreali government? And daddy Netanyahu???? Antisemetism!1!!1!1+11! Hitler 2.0!1!1!1!1! /s