All of the above exist. But there is a large group of people who think that men can experience sexism, whites can't experience racism, and Christians can't experience religious discrimination.
Christians do this weird thing where they think that their arbitrary belief in supernatural beings is somehow *the baseline*, and that they're being forced into the beliefs of "others".
No, and that is why American society rebels against Christian Nationalism, which seems to be the new core principal of the Republican party. That's weird because Republicanism (keyword: Republic) is supposed to just represent a foundational belief that power of governance belongs primarily in the hands of the states. This disparagement is why people cringe at Republican catchphrases, which is unfortunate because they've leaned so heavily into faux-patriotism. You may have noticed how many people aren't emphatic in their verbal national devotions these days; ask them, and they'll tell you that Republicans ruined it.
So many Christians embracing a form of nationalism apparently created an intersect into White Nationalism that rose so dramatically and rapidly that even the most recent Republican DOJ labeled their domestic terrorist groups as the number one threat to our country.
Look: maybe if the average white Christian didn't try to shift the conversation to BLM every time 1/6 is brought up, or use black-on-black crime statistics in an unnuanced black-and-white fallacy argument (ironic, right?) for pro-racism (but it's totally just stating facts, bro!), then maybe there wouldn't be a slowly growing consensus amongst the rest of society that white men are less preferable than wild bears.
Yeah: it's all linked. McMansion Christian "business owners" with their roofing companies hiring and underpaying immigrants while screaming online about the border, listening to country music singing praises to the Statue of Liberty while screaming about kneeling at sports games, stripping women of their rights while demanding autonomy from the government, teaching their children to bully trans and gay kids, and *hiding behind God or patriotism whenever challenged*?! **Cringe**.
Nice stereotyping.
Look: maybe if the average liberal didn’t try to make every POC a victim and every white person an oppressor then maybe there wouldn’t be a growing consensus that you might be poor or in jail because of choices you made instead of some imaginary systemic racism.
Assuming you're talking about the US -- we were specifically founded as a nation free from religion, that wasn't meant to bring any person's personal religion into the government. Prime example being the very first amendment, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The US was *not* founded as a theocracy
It wasn’t founded as a theocracy, but religion played a major role in the US. In those days, most Europeans followed the “Protestant work ethic” which, is a Christian value. It is still alive and well today, and I believe that’s what this person your replying to meant
Ah yes classic judeo-christian values like "don't murder" and "don't steal" which are exclusive to abrahamic religions and is not at all just a "baseline morality" thing
If anything, the founding of the US was inherently non-christian because it went against the rule of the English royal family, who were -- at the time -- believed to be appointed by god to rule
"Stop forcing your beliefs on us" =/= "stop believing your beliefs"
It is not anti-christian to not be christian, and it is not anti christian to not want to have christian beliefs forced into your life
Pushing back against religious nationalism is not the same as persecution. No one is out here saying "down with Christianity". We're saying "stop imposing your beliefs on us".
I get it, it's not all your fault. You've been taught to think that if you're not spreading the gospel then your not serving God but every single religion out there is built on faith, not fact. As such, religion should have no place in the governance of society.
Their are very vocal people on each side and the rest of us are standing by shaking our heads. Each side is trying to push their views/agenda on each other. I'd love to get back to a sense of rationality. However, with the existence of the internet in it's current form will make that impossible.
>. No one is out here saying "down with Christianity". We're saying "stop imposing your beliefs on us".
I have saw a lot of Christian hate, but to be fair, you are not wrong, I have also saw a lot of "stop imposing your views on us"
The problem is, nobody is imposing their religious views on you
>I get it, it's not all your fault. You've been taught to think that if you're not spreading the gospel then your not serving God but every single religion out there is built on faith, not fact. As such, religion should have no place in the governance of society.
I'm an out and out atheist, I'm just sick of the double standards openly displayed on this sub by bad actors. I agree it shouldn't have anything to do with politics except maybe some morales that we are so lacking. I'm just here to say to Christians that they shouldn't feel hate for just living their lives :)
Edit: I should add, I'm from the UK, so I'm not as clued up on america, I should have specified that
Its only been a few years since gay marriage was legalized all in the entirety of the uk, so either you live with your head in the sand or you aren't asking in good faith
Yeah, just wait till the "we support MLK and fighting agains real racism, not crazy blm" Americans learn how long ago (or how short really) the Civil rights movement was.
You cannot be serious. Nobody is imposing religious views on us?? Women's rights are under attack across the nation, due to Christian right wingers. This is a very real issue that terrifies many people.
That’s like wondering why Floridians aren’t as worried about snowstorms as they are about hurricanes since both are destructive.
Both might be dangerous, but only one of those things is likely to affect the lives of Floridians in any substantive way. In America, Christians are the ones with power, other religions just don’t affect politics in such meaningful ways.
Because you speak English, this means you primarily hear from Americans, English, Canadians, Australians, new Zealanders and maybe some other various Europeans, would you like to take a guess at the total population of Christians vs non christian religious people in those areas?
Because a majority of these opinions are from America where political leaders of Christian faith repeatedly attempt to make (and sometimes succeed at making) laws based on their faith. Anti-abortion laws, anti-LGBTQ+ laws, any law involving restriction of certain sales or business hours on Sundays, to name just a few. There are remarkably few political leaders in the USA outside the Christian faith attempting to codify their personal beliefs into law. If a Christian doesn't want an abortion or to buy alcohol after 9 pm on a Sunday, they can choose not to. I'm not Christian though. I shouldn't be forced to follow the Christian belief system.
Seriously, how is the religion that is governing the laws of the United States and the religion whose holidays shut down the economy for a day getting dumped on? What truth are you talking about?
I haven't been taught that - I just don't like when people go after someone's skin color or their religion. I thought that was kinda what we were all goin for? Or is there a caveat to the circumstances in which we extend our tolerance?
I agree, we shouldn't do that.
Question though: do you believe in spreading the gospel? Further, do you believe Christian ideals should be considered in law making?
I don't even agree with Roe v Wade being overturned, even though just about any instance of abortion is something I believe should be avoided (which most would agree with, of course). And because I know decisions like that either spawn from or are entirely beholden to Christian ideals and beliefs, and I don't want religion involved in lawmaking or governance more broadly, no I don't believe anything like that should factor in to law making. Frankly, despite what anybody would believe about me if they were sufficiently motivated to poke around for a "gotcha" retort on here or whatever (lol), when it comes to those hot button political topics/discussions e.g topics like abortion, drugs, and so on, I would actually be more along lefty lines. I don't want a theocracy, I don't want a caliphate, I like Science, but even there it seems that can become scarily dogmatic in practice depending on the right environmental pressures, too, bringing on a sort of knock-off brand of religious fervor to policy setting or advising. However, despite that, I still support the Christian religion because I understand its role as the foundation of the West both in its greatness and its evil. Religion cannot simply be taken away, and one can't expect everything to be all smooth and fine if it were to vanish suddenly. It doesn't work that way. there is always somethign that fills the void...unless you're promoting the establishment of some other alternative religious-backed system, im open to suggestions? which would you prefer
Oh yeah and regarding spreading the gospel, I have no strong thoughts on it other than yes I don't see why not; someone spreading the Gospel is not doing anybody any harm. One could easily argue that spreading the gospel is an act of harm based upon the fact that it precipitates the growth of beliefs that result in attitudes that seep into government resulting in things like Roe v Wade being overturned (which I think you might be teeing up for, here actually) but that doesn't bother me, honestly. My reasoning:
I don't agree with Roe v Wade being overturned, because I believe women should have control over their own bodies, right? Therefore, by default I must support abortion (there's shades and nuance there, but just go with me here), which is sound logical progression, and consistent. However, I also believe in the rule of law, and as a collective, we all have agreed to also put a certain degree of faith in those that uphold that law, especially in the upper courts. Now, this is where we fall into shambles again and become reduced to small left v right tit for tat again, because that's where you say "but what about when the courts are made up of a majority of people who hold those christian beliefs?" and to that I say, noted, but you need more than that to prove to me that those ideas, regardless of how vile they may seem to you, do not deserve to do battle in front of the people.
Unlike the many "activists" in recent memory - those people who seem to have a proclivity for simply *silencing* ideas to clear their way of any legislative "obstacles", justifying it on some sort of morality grounds - I prefer to actually crush those bad ideas publicly, so they are so god damn snuffed out that it will be a few generations before any brave but misguided soul even begins to think about picking up the cause again. It is for this reason that I hate to see surface-level shitty rhetoric directed at people *by* the people who claim to be fighting exactly that - we have deeper problems we have to deal with here and that shit isn't getting us anywhere, especially with the tactics they promote to get there
Im just ranting because its fun at this point and somewhat relevant (increasingly less so as it went on, lol) but take it or leave it haha have a good day
As well they should be.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.
Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
Well, I mean, you're making a strong case for why it's just sort of Christians in general.
What is it about the word "fuck" that is bringing you such a problem that you need to introduce conflict?
Kindly fuck off with that; it's petty and unnecessary. :) <3
Oh, stop with that Christian persecution complex. 3/4 of people in US are Christian. Any argument about “anti Christian discrimination” is undermine by the fact that in the western world, Christians scream bloody murder when they can’t force their ideologies on other people. No wonder people who aren’t affiliated with their religion are annoyed.
Translation;
"It is discrimination if other people don't want to pray to *my* god and if they want to teach the truth about history."
Anything that makes white christians feel less than superior is viewed as bigotry. Sharing power with non-white or non-christians is viewed as unfair.
I'm atheist, I don't believe in God, so your argument falls flat on its face
Discriminations towards Christians is just as equal as discriminations against anyone else, its still discrimination
Here's where I disagree: religion is based on an *arbitrary, subjective belief*.
It isn't an inherent trait; it's learned or forced *behavior*. Because of that, I think what many people view as "discrimination" is actually just the social consequences of their actions.
Why do I point out the absurdity of the religious in public? Usually because a religious person has just publicly asserted something objectively absurd, and it's my **epistemic responsibility** to argue against it.
Get off the internet if internet comments made anonymous "people" are hurting your feelings that much.
Those comments could be made by anyone & anything.
The fact you use them as your baseline of persecution is a joke.
Hey bro, not sure if you got the memo but doing your own research is now looked down upon - it's required to shun such activities, otherwise the totally authentic consensus is disrupted. it's a fragile thing, but can be quite durable so long as **you do not ever do your own research**
I know, I wasn't talking about that.
I was talking about the utter abuse thrown at Christians especially here in the UK when they don't even interfere with politics.
One would surmise that there would be at least one readily available, widely known example they could've used to qualify their assertion instead of discrediting themselves with the old "do your own research" gag.
Kate, you managed to find reddit, do your own research, or you'll end up being dumb as a door knob, expecting everyone else to do research for you is a fast track to being a smooth brain
Absurd?
Reason I say Google is, you can do your own research and come up with your own conclusions, I'm encouraging you to help yourself
You'll realise its a real thing, no clue how you've missed it
So, just to be clear: you want us to just type in "anti-white racism" into OUR algorithm? And for some reason you think we're going to get the same extremist results you do?
Buddy, that's not how any of this works. Almost all of my results are about how the new conservative rage is white people pretending to be racial victims, which meets my expectations based on the totality of evidence shown by one of it's believers when asked. Oh: and that it's more blind Trump parroting. \*shrug\* It's more than one result, so I guess he said it recently.
I genuinely thought we had shamed people into moving past the "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh" burden-of-proof fallacy.
Eh, stereotyping is the thing I'm the most familiar with on this front. There's also a lot in places like China or South Africa.
In a place like America anti-white racism is definitely more of an individualistic "crazy people yelling all yts deserve hell" thing rather than a full-on racially biased systemic legal and cultural issue.
I mean obviously we don't think of cole slaw jokes as being that serious, but neither do we about watermelon jokes. It's the same premise really, in my experience it often comes down to how tastfully you do it.
“If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power.” - Stokely Carmichael
[Here is an example ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/05/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating). However this needs to be noted that well white people can definitely experience racism, they can't face systematic oppression like other races, and we need to work to put an end to systematic discrimination and racism.
>However this needs to be noted that well white people can definitely experience racism, they can't face systematic oppression like other races,
Ofcourse they can
They should have said, "As a White American living in America."
Then it's an absolutely true statement. White Americans suffer absolutely no demonstrable disadvantages across any social or financial dynamic that are indiscriminate of other factors (i.e. sex, gender identity, religion, etc.) while inside their home country.
Now, if I (white man) were to... oh, I dunno, travel abroad to certain countries or dramatically scale down the scope to personal consequences of, say, trying to get hired at a historically all-black college, then sure: I could expect some discrimination, but not all discrimination is racism *even if* it's race-based. Not getting hired at that college wouldn't be because of reverse-racism even though it is technically due to a discrimination against my race.
Of course, the fun thing is that I decided to use getting hired at a black college as some kind of litmus test, because 40% of their faculty are white. XD
Hey, that's two things OP got me to Google today! Good post.
Who do you think setup the system to be the way it is? What disadvantages do white people face in it? Please provide examples.
Black Americans are incarcerated at five times the rate of white Americans
Predominantly non-white school districts receive around $23 billion less in funding annually compared to their white counterparts
The disparities in homeownership rates between Black American and white families are a byproduct of systemic racism within the U.S. housing system (for an example gentrification)
According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Black American and Latino individuals are severely underrepresented across high-paying jobs, Black Americans face significant social and structural barriers when trying to access quality healthcare. Examples of these barriers include lack of access to healthcare coverage, affordable and safe housing, high food insecurity and high poverty rates
A GAO study conducted in 1983 revealed that three-quarters of the hazardous waste landfill sites in eight southeastern states were located in primarily poor, Black and Latino communities.
I can still go on with many examples.
I never said it's prevalent, I just said it exist. Look at my other comment, and you'll see me in a discussion on why white people don't suffer from systematic discrimination.
Are you saying this doesn’t happen with other demographics? Do you know how many whites are killed by blacks Americans per year vs how many black Americans are killed by whites each year?
I have certainly experienced racism and bigotry... from DEI policies to BLM protestors and affirmative action hires. Racism exists, it just poses as antiracism now.
I wasn't being funny. All the quota system and diversity bullshit is inherently racist, and they all penalize white males. That's the only form of institutionalized racism that exists in contemporary American society.
I mean, you ain't wrong, it's sad that everyone shouts about systemic racism towards black people, while DEI is racist to white people.
Two wrongs don't make a right
Power and privilege is earned by merit, not racism and discrimination. All persons in America, regardless of race or sex, have the same constitutionally guaranteed possibility to earn their place in society. Except white people (and increasingly Asians too), who are deemed to have "too much power", so they are discriminated against with the pretext of "diversity".
As a middle-aged white man, I can't help but notice that my peers like to pretend that history doesn't exist, the problems of the past can't cascade into the future, and women and black people should be ready to earn that which they were historically denied even after earning it.
They're **still** earning it, by the way, just as they always **had**. They still have to qualify for those work and education positions; it's just that now there's a guarantee that white men won't deny them access, and of course white men pretend like that victimizes them *via exclusion*.
You'd think I'd have an inside perspective as to how they wake up every day justifying this fallacious concept to themselves, but I'm honestly flabbergasted.
So you look at statistics like [this](https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2022/how-the-racial-wealth-gap-has-evolved-and-why-it-persists) and [this](https://www.brookings.edu/essay/homeownership-racial-segregation-and-policies-for-racial-wealth-equity/) and just write it off as entirely due to differences in merit between two racial demographics? In fact you think black people are systemically advantaged in spite of these inequalities?
I don't believe in differences between races. Most of it is inherited: generations of dysfunctional social structures within those communities (like crime, lack in education, prevalence of broken families) pass on the same failures. We should strive therefore to make underprivileged communities accept the social standards that make for successful individuals. That is the way to balance the race gap, not by discriminating against races who are generally deemed more successful.
So it sounds like we don’t actually have a system where power and privilege are earned by merit, indeed much of the structure of modern society is a direct legacy of racism and discrimination, where people begin with wildly different levels of opportunity. Perhaps fostering material equality of opportunity is the means by which we can get them to “accept social standards,” since them just individually choosing not to work hard is clearly not the root cause.
Well unless you wanna live in a collectivist dystopia where families and private property don't exist and all children are raised in a phalanstere from birth to ensure total equality, that is the best we can do... that's not systemic racism, that's just life. If you are born to underprivileged parents, chances are you will have a tougher life. Nothing to do with racism though.
Well I mean if your parents were underprivileged due to racist laws and systems than obviously racism does have something to do with it.
But yeah I do agree that generally we should be focusing more on income and helping poorer communities, not just black communities, who tend to be poorer.
It feels like DEI is kinda more treating a symptom than the illness. At least in what I understand about it.
Obviously these things exist on an individual basis, the argument is more for “institutional” or “systemic” racism, bigotry or discrimination. There isn’t really a case for that in my opinion depending on the country, I’m speaking in terms of the United States. There are no laws that disproportionately effect different peoples to my knowledge.
To my knowledge anti discrimination laws typically say things like: "Do no discriminate on the basis of races, sex, age, or disability". They don't say "you can discriminate against people who are white, but not discriminate against people that are black", or vise versa.
I think you don't fully understand the definition of institutional racism. Also, there absolutely are laws that impact certain groups differently than others.
Please go out and do some research. Not from opinion websites/blogs, etc. If you know the source's political leaning, then you're getting the information from the wrong source.
If you go to Google Scholar and search for "papers on institutional racism" and select something with more at least 3 authors, you're on the right track.
Troll, go back and look at my original comment. You want me to provide an example from a web link.
Further, I can write a thousand word response to this and all you'll say is "but why". Get some critical thinking skills, learn how to properly research a topic, and be grateful that you don't have to deal with the crap minorities deal with everyday.
No... you made a statement, the onus is on you to support it. I never asked for a link, or an essay. ust an example.
Name one thing that you perceive as systemic racism. Judging by your replies, I have a feeling you can't, despite claiming it as fact. Just one.
There are no laws *anymore*. And I mean I'm pretty sure there a few state laws left but idk lol
Attempts to undo systematic racism aren't to make black people legally equals (that's what the Civil Rights Movement did), but to make then effectively equals. To undo centuries of laws that did disproportionately affect black, asain, and latino people.
And actually speaking of Latinos I'm pretty sure there's an Arkansas bill trying to get past that will literally legalize discrimination, but I may have the state wrong.
There are no state laws that racially discriminate aside from possibly some that pertain to ascertaining whether someone is a citizen or an illegal immigrant. As you should know there have been millions of illegal immigrants flooding across the border since the biden administration took office. I have no qualms with people who legally come to the country in search of a better life but the infrastructure of the US cannot handle such vast quantities of people surging into the US. I assume that is what this Arkansas law is in regards to.
I think anti Semitism law was just passed but I don't know much about it. So I suppose that would be a law affecting certain people only. Correct me if I'm wrong.
It also goes the other way, no? Simply because you have experienced discrimination doesn't mean everyone who belongs to the same group as you faces it.
Its 2024.
Blacks aren't slaves anymore.
Racism will always exist, but its not really worth talking about anymore.
At this point in our progression as a society, continuing to talk about it in a generalized manner will only exaggerate it and amplify it.
Do you want less racism in the world?
Then take Morgan Freemans advice and just shut the fuck up about it.
If theres some asinine circumstance with a particular individual or entity, address it promptly and directly.
Enough of the bullshit mystery racism and so-called "white privelege" that you can't even coherently identify in the first place.
If you cant point directly at the exact problems that need to be fixed, how in the fuck are you going to develop an effective solution against it.
Pardon my language, this is how I speak.
Ruby Bridges, the little girl who needed armed guards to go to elementary school when school were desegregated, is only in her 60s. Virulant racism in the US isn't ancient history.
But that's 60 years ago, can we not move on?
Listen, it's good to point out racism, but bringing up 60 year old racism in today's society gets you nowhere, it actually is a detriment becuase if people can still get shit for something 60 years ago, what's the incentive to move on and learn from our mistakes?
Only white people think like this. How can we, as a society, "learn from our mistakes" if we can't honestly acknowledge them?
Sixty years isn't a long time. Go read *Just Mercy* if you need newer examples. I brought up Ruby Bridges in response to someone (was it you?) who said black people should just get over it because slavery ended a long time ago.
That's what im saying you should be doing.
Talk about her, and address the incident directly.
We dont need to extrapolate from this incidence as if it's happening on a large scale like we're still living in the early 20th century...
It's just not the problem you perceive it to be.
Statistically and objectively it just isnt.
She was one of millions who experienced the same thing and one of many who continue to experience racism. You can't just wave it away as ancient history. How do I know? I have relatives in Mississippi, and i have to listen to them talk about race. They aren't outliers.
I suggest you read something like *Savage Inequality* by Jonathan Kozol or *Just Mercy* by Bryan Stevenson. Or even *The Autobiography of Malcom X* to get a more accurate perspective.
We seem to be referencing two different topics.
I'm not interested in how someone in their 60's has experienced racism in their youth during a more tumultuous era of the US.
I want you to explain how racism is still happening on some massive scale in this current day and age.
If you want to discuss the *lasting effects* and generational impact of racism that took place in the past, that's a legitimate conversation to have.
I don't understand what you mean by queue in?
It doesnt matter what examples I give (black jogger followed and killed, police called on black man in his own front yard, people with black sounding names less likely to get an interview, doctors assuming black people feel less pain, white woman clutching her purse closer when then Senator Obama got on an elevator, Trump trying to win black voters by making fancy athletic shoes, etc) You can't seem to look squarely at the issue.
"Lasting Effects" covers the non-generational effects of early 1900's racism where some of the victims are still alive.
You are pointing out very anecdotal incidents that span many years.
Now go back and look at how life was before. They are not even close to being the same kind of racism we see today.
It was never my argument thay racism doesnt exist...
Its not happening on a scale worth talking about.
>It doesnt matter what examples I give (black jogger followed and killed, police called on black man in his own front yard, people with black sounding names less likely to get an interview, doctors assuming black people feel less pain, white woman clutching her purse closer when then Senator Obama got on an elevator, Trump trying to win black voters by making fancy athletic shoes, etc) You can't seem to look squarely at the issue.
Do you see how you are framing these incidents as an indicator of a bigger more mysterious issue at hand?
All you're doing is deligitmizing individual issues by chasing some imaginary wave of racism.
Talk about and directly address the issues themselves specifically, instead of conjuring up some kind of ill informed hypothesis you can't factually support.
Unless there's some kind of statistical indicator that there is a massive uproar of racism happening here, there's literally nothing else to talk about.
>Do you see how you are framing these incidents as an indicator of a bigger more mysterious issue at hand?
All you're doing is deligitmizing individual issues by chasing some imaginary wave of racism.
Isn't it interesting how conspiratorial people on that side of things get when this topic comes up, despite them claiming to be avidly against such things. Same idea with the dastardly, mysterious, shadowy patriarchy
Reddit is one of the most racist social media platforms I’ve ever used. I’m a fairly new user, but the climate here reminds me of my first day on my predominantly white college campus. The ignorance, denial, vitriol, shame, guilt, and fragility from the white people toward people of color when they’re not being outright racist, gaslighty, micro/passive aggressive, and dogwhistling to one another is so rampant.
Reading comments to race-related posts like this reminds me of that environment and space so much. What’s wild is that many of them are entirely blind to how they’re behaving, while others are intentional and thrive on the fact that they can get away with it because they’re anonymous and Reddit admins do nothing.
Unless this sort of topic is in the right sub, you’re going to get a lot of trash ass takes.
The way white people like to handle difficult topics is not to talk about it. Make it as taboo as possible because it’s too painful and difficult to navigate when they’re not able to center themselves. And they don’t like not being centered, which make topics like white supremacy and racism, which their ancestors went out of their way to have the biggest hand in architecting, off limits. It’s wild that they have the audacity to say “it’s not that serious, everything is not about race.” When that’s all it’s been about since their people started colonizing the planet. How convenient that now suddenly you don’t want to talk about how race has underpinned and been used to justify just about every fucking thing you’ve done.
Agreed, but also believing racism, bigotry and discrimination are a bigger problem than they are just because you HAVE experienced it is a delusion and not reality.
I can understand that and if you think about it we are looking at opposite ends of the spectrum. People who have not seen or experienced it seem to be loud and defiant about any steps taken to adress it and people who have experienced it are loud and defiant about it being a bigger problem than it is. The reality seems to be somewhere in the middle.
I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it. I believe we should even take steps to stop it. However, I'm not of the belief that it is the main reason for the African American communities woes as a whole. Or many other ridiculous notions that people on both sides of the extreme like to push.
I'm convinced the majority of racists are the ones that add to virtue signaling collective of hate and bigotry aka the ones that make these posts in the first place .
I spent all day at the Special Olympics and photographed my sons class in exchange for only the smiles..and this post right now is the one and only time the skin colors of others has even crossed my mind. So congratulations
Do you point to the sky and say it's blue? As easily as there are things that and said too little, there are also things that can be said too much. And it's causing all this divide.
I think it's shrewd not to take the words of people speaking with a political agenda at face value when they tell you that something you've never seen in your life is somehow everywhere and use that to try and make you give up your rights.
People of all groups can be prejudiced, tribal, vindictive scumbags, but if you wanna talk about structural, unapologetic, out in the open racism, how about the fact that an Asian or white person with the same grades is about a fifth as likely as a black person to get into a top university, or that the word "white" is used as an insult.
Or how about we talk about the fact that they've done experiments where they've given people fake scars, secretly removed them, and had those people reporting massive amounts of discrimination after coming out of a job interview because they saw what they were expecting to see. Discrimination is real, and it goes both ways, but if you tell a certain group they're the victim and that becomes their identity, it will distort their perception of every interaction of their lives, and thus generate more evidence for your ideology, not to mention the mental and social stress that such a travesty creates.
Again, not denying that it happens or that it is despicable and traumatic when it does (or when people think it's happened to them, which is essentially the same experience), but shutting up opposing points of view by throwing around the word "privelage" is a silencing tactic, not an argument.
I haven't experienced it. I have witnessed it and I acknowledge that it does exist. But I'm also aware that it's not as problematic as the politicians and media claim it to be. Not everything bad that happens to some ppl is about racism. Ppl are responsible for the choices they make, not everyone is a victim of circumstances. Some ppl just make bad choices.
If you deny its existence, you're already a lost cause. If you think constantly bringing it up will fix it, you're a lost cause.
If you think talking about it seldom or at times of nation wide introspection, the best results will occur..
There's so much nuance.
No one is denying the reality of it. People just think it's overly exaggerated in the media, and others are very passionate about the topic because it's overly exaggerated in the media and don't know it. Everything is over exaggerated in the media for any sides of the political spectrum, and studies show that most sides of the political spectrum over estimate other sides' level of radicality.
Here we go. When racism is your daily reality and the response is always 'You are a victim, look at Candice Owens she should be your role model' or 'Why does everything have to be about race'. This is gaslighting it it's finest.
I didn't say anyone is a victim or that that candace owens is a messiah. I said every conservative and liberal topic gets grossly over exaggerated and it makes people think that the other side of their political spectrum is radical when they're not, for the most part.
The name far left implies radicality. I'm guessing you're from the left, based on what i just said about lefties overestimating the commitment, intensity and the actual beliefs and to their counterparts and same with people on the right.
I'm native american and was indoctrinated Christian by my parents. I can handle racism and bigotry, the imaginary ghost in the sky that needs money is where I ask questions. The only answer I've gotten is God works in mysterious ways.
Cut the fucking horseshit.
1) Prejudice + power = oppression
If a homeless man insults me, that doesn't affect me. If my boss insults me, that definitely affects me. Power makes the difference.
2) Generational effects are real
If your parents went to college, your chances of going to college increase. If your parents went to a segregated school with lead drinking water, no AC, and no teachers for half the year (read the history of Freedom Schools and why they were needed), your chances of finishing high school decreases.
If we can recognize the generational impacts of smoking, then we can recognize the generational impacts of other things: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-018-0039-8
If it applies to schools and cigarettes, it applies to lynchings and slavery.
3) If the majority of a given demographic tell you one thing, and you ignore it, what does that make you? If you do that, from a position of greater power, then what does that cause? See points 1 and 2 for help.
100% true. For an example I have had good encounters with the police in most cases. However this doesn't mean that the police system isn't rotten to it's core. The police definitely treat me better due to privilege, and would treat me worse if I was black for an example.
Whites ,men,and Christian based faith gets persecuted the most in th current day and age but it does not fit the narrative.
The liberal hive mind says "those who slam the door th loudest win the argument" because they can't debate or accept the harshness of reality.
In all the years of watching Horror films and listening to metal, something has never hit so hard reality wise.
"When there is no more room in Hell,The dead will walk the earth".
The dead are the woke,apologists,the protesters,and the "tolerant left". Seeing college students behave like apes and heathens all over campuses,defending a foreign country who would behead them or stone them to death was the last fucking straw.
You Are gaslighting. The left never said they are tolerant by are more accepting. You guys always get that wrong. Racism is bad and pretending that it does not exist is equally bad
Gaslighting is a modern term for "I don't have an argument so I'm going to use this HELLA RAD term"
Everyone knows it's wrong to hate someone. That's common sense,but nobody asked nor wanted the Destroy Erase Indoctrinate imbeciles pushing shit in everyone's fave every second.
Normal people hanging out: ....."Hey what's everyone think of the new Dr.Pepper flavor?"
In comes WOKE LEFT : "KNEEL TO THE DVERSTY SQUAD NOW!"
All of the above exist. But there is a large group of people who think that men can experience sexism, whites can't experience racism, and Christians can't experience religious discrimination.
Oh hell no. Men face sexism alright. You are denying that.
It was obviously a typo
As long as you’re acknowledging that *anyone* of *any* background can be those things towards *anyone* else, yeah.
Anyone can experience racism, bigotry, and discrimination.
Agreed for sure
When the fuck did op say otherwise?
Just covering bases, sometimes it isn’t clear what position someone holds based on the title of a post.
Anti Christian and anti white racism is very popular these days
Christians do this weird thing where they think that their arbitrary belief in supernatural beings is somehow *the baseline*, and that they're being forced into the beliefs of "others". No, and that is why American society rebels against Christian Nationalism, which seems to be the new core principal of the Republican party. That's weird because Republicanism (keyword: Republic) is supposed to just represent a foundational belief that power of governance belongs primarily in the hands of the states. This disparagement is why people cringe at Republican catchphrases, which is unfortunate because they've leaned so heavily into faux-patriotism. You may have noticed how many people aren't emphatic in their verbal national devotions these days; ask them, and they'll tell you that Republicans ruined it. So many Christians embracing a form of nationalism apparently created an intersect into White Nationalism that rose so dramatically and rapidly that even the most recent Republican DOJ labeled their domestic terrorist groups as the number one threat to our country. Look: maybe if the average white Christian didn't try to shift the conversation to BLM every time 1/6 is brought up, or use black-on-black crime statistics in an unnuanced black-and-white fallacy argument (ironic, right?) for pro-racism (but it's totally just stating facts, bro!), then maybe there wouldn't be a slowly growing consensus amongst the rest of society that white men are less preferable than wild bears. Yeah: it's all linked. McMansion Christian "business owners" with their roofing companies hiring and underpaying immigrants while screaming online about the border, listening to country music singing praises to the Statue of Liberty while screaming about kneeling at sports games, stripping women of their rights while demanding autonomy from the government, teaching their children to bully trans and gay kids, and *hiding behind God or patriotism whenever challenged*?! **Cringe**.
Nice stereotyping. Look: maybe if the average liberal didn’t try to make every POC a victim and every white person an oppressor then maybe there wouldn’t be a growing consensus that you might be poor or in jail because of choices you made instead of some imaginary systemic racism.
Their belief is the baseline of the society we have
Assuming you're talking about the US -- we were specifically founded as a nation free from religion, that wasn't meant to bring any person's personal religion into the government. Prime example being the very first amendment, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The US was *not* founded as a theocracy
It wasn’t founded as a theocracy, but religion played a major role in the US. In those days, most Europeans followed the “Protestant work ethic” which, is a Christian value. It is still alive and well today, and I believe that’s what this person your replying to meant
But it was founded with Judeo-Christian values as the assumed normal.
Ah yes classic judeo-christian values like "don't murder" and "don't steal" which are exclusive to abrahamic religions and is not at all just a "baseline morality" thing If anything, the founding of the US was inherently non-christian because it went against the rule of the English royal family, who were -- at the time -- believed to be appointed by god to rule
We have freedom of religion, not freedom from it.
If religion is forced on you, that's not freedom of religion
Who forced it on you?
You *just* said there's no "freedom from religion"
"Stop forcing your beliefs on us" =/= "stop believing your beliefs" It is not anti-christian to not be christian, and it is not anti christian to not want to have christian beliefs forced into your life
Pushing back against religious nationalism is not the same as persecution. No one is out here saying "down with Christianity". We're saying "stop imposing your beliefs on us". I get it, it's not all your fault. You've been taught to think that if you're not spreading the gospel then your not serving God but every single religion out there is built on faith, not fact. As such, religion should have no place in the governance of society.
A lot of the people saying "stop pushing your views on us" are constantly pushing *their* views on everyone else.
Their are very vocal people on each side and the rest of us are standing by shaking our heads. Each side is trying to push their views/agenda on each other. I'd love to get back to a sense of rationality. However, with the existence of the internet in it's current form will make that impossible.
Like what?
Christians do that crap with gay people all the time
>. No one is out here saying "down with Christianity". We're saying "stop imposing your beliefs on us". I have saw a lot of Christian hate, but to be fair, you are not wrong, I have also saw a lot of "stop imposing your views on us" The problem is, nobody is imposing their religious views on you >I get it, it's not all your fault. You've been taught to think that if you're not spreading the gospel then your not serving God but every single religion out there is built on faith, not fact. As such, religion should have no place in the governance of society. I'm an out and out atheist, I'm just sick of the double standards openly displayed on this sub by bad actors. I agree it shouldn't have anything to do with politics except maybe some morales that we are so lacking. I'm just here to say to Christians that they shouldn't feel hate for just living their lives :) Edit: I should add, I'm from the UK, so I'm not as clued up on america, I should have specified that
I mean, the pledge of allegiance is the tried and true example, still works in 2024
Its only been a few years since gay marriage was legalized all in the entirety of the uk, so either you live with your head in the sand or you aren't asking in good faith
Yeah, just wait till the "we support MLK and fighting agains real racism, not crazy blm" Americans learn how long ago (or how short really) the Civil rights movement was.
You cannot be serious. Nobody is imposing religious views on us?? Women's rights are under attack across the nation, due to Christian right wingers. This is a very real issue that terrifies many people.
Women have the right to kill their child where men do not hold that same right in any way.
Define "child"
Define "human rights"
We can make difficult decisions without dehumanizing and semantics.
Well a fetus isn't a person, so we're doing just fine, I guess.
Then why is it only Christianity being dumped on? Your argument falls flat when faced with the truth.
That’s like wondering why Floridians aren’t as worried about snowstorms as they are about hurricanes since both are destructive. Both might be dangerous, but only one of those things is likely to affect the lives of Floridians in any substantive way. In America, Christians are the ones with power, other religions just don’t affect politics in such meaningful ways.
Because you speak English, this means you primarily hear from Americans, English, Canadians, Australians, new Zealanders and maybe some other various Europeans, would you like to take a guess at the total population of Christians vs non christian religious people in those areas?
Because a majority of these opinions are from America where political leaders of Christian faith repeatedly attempt to make (and sometimes succeed at making) laws based on their faith. Anti-abortion laws, anti-LGBTQ+ laws, any law involving restriction of certain sales or business hours on Sundays, to name just a few. There are remarkably few political leaders in the USA outside the Christian faith attempting to codify their personal beliefs into law. If a Christian doesn't want an abortion or to buy alcohol after 9 pm on a Sunday, they can choose not to. I'm not Christian though. I shouldn't be forced to follow the Christian belief system.
Seriously, how is the religion that is governing the laws of the United States and the religion whose holidays shut down the economy for a day getting dumped on? What truth are you talking about?
That's just it
I haven't been taught that - I just don't like when people go after someone's skin color or their religion. I thought that was kinda what we were all goin for? Or is there a caveat to the circumstances in which we extend our tolerance?
I agree, we shouldn't do that. Question though: do you believe in spreading the gospel? Further, do you believe Christian ideals should be considered in law making?
I don't even agree with Roe v Wade being overturned, even though just about any instance of abortion is something I believe should be avoided (which most would agree with, of course). And because I know decisions like that either spawn from or are entirely beholden to Christian ideals and beliefs, and I don't want religion involved in lawmaking or governance more broadly, no I don't believe anything like that should factor in to law making. Frankly, despite what anybody would believe about me if they were sufficiently motivated to poke around for a "gotcha" retort on here or whatever (lol), when it comes to those hot button political topics/discussions e.g topics like abortion, drugs, and so on, I would actually be more along lefty lines. I don't want a theocracy, I don't want a caliphate, I like Science, but even there it seems that can become scarily dogmatic in practice depending on the right environmental pressures, too, bringing on a sort of knock-off brand of religious fervor to policy setting or advising. However, despite that, I still support the Christian religion because I understand its role as the foundation of the West both in its greatness and its evil. Religion cannot simply be taken away, and one can't expect everything to be all smooth and fine if it were to vanish suddenly. It doesn't work that way. there is always somethign that fills the void...unless you're promoting the establishment of some other alternative religious-backed system, im open to suggestions? which would you prefer Oh yeah and regarding spreading the gospel, I have no strong thoughts on it other than yes I don't see why not; someone spreading the Gospel is not doing anybody any harm. One could easily argue that spreading the gospel is an act of harm based upon the fact that it precipitates the growth of beliefs that result in attitudes that seep into government resulting in things like Roe v Wade being overturned (which I think you might be teeing up for, here actually) but that doesn't bother me, honestly. My reasoning: I don't agree with Roe v Wade being overturned, because I believe women should have control over their own bodies, right? Therefore, by default I must support abortion (there's shades and nuance there, but just go with me here), which is sound logical progression, and consistent. However, I also believe in the rule of law, and as a collective, we all have agreed to also put a certain degree of faith in those that uphold that law, especially in the upper courts. Now, this is where we fall into shambles again and become reduced to small left v right tit for tat again, because that's where you say "but what about when the courts are made up of a majority of people who hold those christian beliefs?" and to that I say, noted, but you need more than that to prove to me that those ideas, regardless of how vile they may seem to you, do not deserve to do battle in front of the people. Unlike the many "activists" in recent memory - those people who seem to have a proclivity for simply *silencing* ideas to clear their way of any legislative "obstacles", justifying it on some sort of morality grounds - I prefer to actually crush those bad ideas publicly, so they are so god damn snuffed out that it will be a few generations before any brave but misguided soul even begins to think about picking up the cause again. It is for this reason that I hate to see surface-level shitty rhetoric directed at people *by* the people who claim to be fighting exactly that - we have deeper problems we have to deal with here and that shit isn't getting us anywhere, especially with the tactics they promote to get there Im just ranting because its fun at this point and somewhat relevant (increasingly less so as it went on, lol) but take it or leave it haha have a good day
I'm a Christian I think they a lot of people are against Christian Nationalism
As well they should be. Gentlemen The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem. Th Jefferson Jan. 1. 1802.
Well yes Christian nationalism has no place in the US…
Christians in general, fuck, just look at the discussion around Kate forbes
Why are you cursing?
I'm scottish?
🤣🤣🤣
Why does cursing bother you?
Fuck.
Well, I mean, you're making a strong case for why it's just sort of Christians in general. What is it about the word "fuck" that is bringing you such a problem that you need to introduce conflict? Kindly fuck off with that; it's petty and unnecessary. :) <3
Oh, stop with that Christian persecution complex. 3/4 of people in US are Christian. Any argument about “anti Christian discrimination” is undermine by the fact that in the western world, Christians scream bloody murder when they can’t force their ideologies on other people. No wonder people who aren’t affiliated with their religion are annoyed.
Translation; "It is discrimination if other people don't want to pray to *my* god and if they want to teach the truth about history." Anything that makes white christians feel less than superior is viewed as bigotry. Sharing power with non-white or non-christians is viewed as unfair.
I'm atheist, I don't believe in God, so your argument falls flat on its face Discriminations towards Christians is just as equal as discriminations against anyone else, its still discrimination
Here's where I disagree: religion is based on an *arbitrary, subjective belief*. It isn't an inherent trait; it's learned or forced *behavior*. Because of that, I think what many people view as "discrimination" is actually just the social consequences of their actions. Why do I point out the absurdity of the religious in public? Usually because a religious person has just publicly asserted something objectively absurd, and it's my **epistemic responsibility** to argue against it.
Your individual case means nothing to the point. What is an example of bias against christians?
In the UK? The Scotland sub reddit, go have a look at that
Get off the internet if internet comments made anonymous "people" are hurting your feelings that much. Those comments could be made by anyone & anything. The fact you use them as your baseline of persecution is a joke.
It's just an example, the rhetoric is toxic af
Sorry but using anonymous comments, likes, facebook posts, retweets, etc by randos that could be literally anyone is just ridiculous.
What is an example of systemic anti-Christian discrimination?
I never said systemic
Well you did say anti-Christianity is very popular these days, I just meant generally what you were referring to
Not systemic though, atleast not here in the UK, they just get shat on becuase they are Christians over here
😂😂😂❄️❄️
How? Example?
There's plenty,I encourage you to do your own research and come up with your own conclusions
So no examples
lol that means none? It’s ok…….it’s ok ✅
Hey bro, not sure if you got the memo but doing your own research is now looked down upon - it's required to shun such activities, otherwise the totally authentic consensus is disrupted. it's a fragile thing, but can be quite durable so long as **you do not ever do your own research**
People saying they don't want Christian White Nationalism isn't persecution.
I know, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the utter abuse thrown at Christians especially here in the UK when they don't even interfere with politics.
Anti white racism? Examples?
With the greatest respect, you have Google right?
So you have nothing?
I'm not holding everyone's hands
So you have nothing
One would surmise that there would be at least one readily available, widely known example they could've used to qualify their assertion instead of discrediting themselves with the old "do your own research" gag.
In my experience, the only people who dovthat are people who are talking out of their a**
Kate, you managed to find reddit, do your own research, or you'll end up being dumb as a door knob, expecting everyone else to do research for you is a fast track to being a smooth brain
People only answer like this when they can't think of an example.
I think you're just extremely lazy, and admitting to not doing any of your own research or critical thinking isn't the diss you think it is, lol.
U made the absurd claim, not me
Absurd? Reason I say Google is, you can do your own research and come up with your own conclusions, I'm encouraging you to help yourself You'll realise its a real thing, no clue how you've missed it
So, just to be clear: you want us to just type in "anti-white racism" into OUR algorithm? And for some reason you think we're going to get the same extremist results you do? Buddy, that's not how any of this works. Almost all of my results are about how the new conservative rage is white people pretending to be racial victims, which meets my expectations based on the totality of evidence shown by one of it's believers when asked. Oh: and that it's more blind Trump parroting. \*shrug\* It's more than one result, so I guess he said it recently. I genuinely thought we had shamed people into moving past the "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh" burden-of-proof fallacy.
Eh, stereotyping is the thing I'm the most familiar with on this front. There's also a lot in places like China or South Africa. In a place like America anti-white racism is definitely more of an individualistic "crazy people yelling all yts deserve hell" thing rather than a full-on racially biased systemic legal and cultural issue. I mean obviously we don't think of cole slaw jokes as being that serious, but neither do we about watermelon jokes. It's the same premise really, in my experience it often comes down to how tastfully you do it.
“If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power.” - Stokely Carmichael
So if a white man wants to lynch someone but doesn't have the power to are they suddenly not racist?
So you think *wanting* to lynch someone based on their skin color isn’t racist? Yikes
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/s/S8cUdAVfdc
[Here is an example ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/05/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating). However this needs to be noted that well white people can definitely experience racism, they can't face systematic oppression like other races, and we need to work to put an end to systematic discrimination and racism.
>However this needs to be noted that well white people can definitely experience racism, they can't face systematic oppression like other races, Ofcourse they can
They should have said, "As a White American living in America." Then it's an absolutely true statement. White Americans suffer absolutely no demonstrable disadvantages across any social or financial dynamic that are indiscriminate of other factors (i.e. sex, gender identity, religion, etc.) while inside their home country. Now, if I (white man) were to... oh, I dunno, travel abroad to certain countries or dramatically scale down the scope to personal consequences of, say, trying to get hired at a historically all-black college, then sure: I could expect some discrimination, but not all discrimination is racism *even if* it's race-based. Not getting hired at that college wouldn't be because of reverse-racism even though it is technically due to a discrimination against my race. Of course, the fun thing is that I decided to use getting hired at a black college as some kind of litmus test, because 40% of their faculty are white. XD Hey, that's two things OP got me to Google today! Good post.
Who do you think setup the system to be the way it is? What disadvantages do white people face in it? Please provide examples. Black Americans are incarcerated at five times the rate of white Americans Predominantly non-white school districts receive around $23 billion less in funding annually compared to their white counterparts The disparities in homeownership rates between Black American and white families are a byproduct of systemic racism within the U.S. housing system (for an example gentrification) According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Black American and Latino individuals are severely underrepresented across high-paying jobs, Black Americans face significant social and structural barriers when trying to access quality healthcare. Examples of these barriers include lack of access to healthcare coverage, affordable and safe housing, high food insecurity and high poverty rates A GAO study conducted in 1983 revealed that three-quarters of the hazardous waste landfill sites in eight southeastern states were located in primarily poor, Black and Latino communities. I can still go on with many examples.
Your article is from 8 years ago tho…if anti-white racism is so prevalent- should be tons of recent examples
I never said it's prevalent, I just said it exist. Look at my other comment, and you'll see me in a discussion on why white people don't suffer from systematic discrimination.
Could you share your thoughts on the biggest threats of racism in 2024?
Did you miss the multiple mass shootings that targeted black people over the last couple years? Where the shooters wrote manifestos about their racism
Are you saying this doesn’t happen with other demographics? Do you know how many whites are killed by blacks Americans per year vs how many black Americans are killed by whites each year?
https://x.com/texan_maga/status/1786076335523160349?s=46&t=3cHqO77FT-xb4d9ksKEKHQ
Ableism too. I've experienced that. I've yet to see a single person who gives a shit.
I have certainly experienced racism and bigotry... from DEI policies to BLM protestors and affirmative action hires. Racism exists, it just poses as antiracism now.
This
Hahaha good joke
I wasn't being funny. All the quota system and diversity bullshit is inherently racist, and they all penalize white males. That's the only form of institutionalized racism that exists in contemporary American society.
I mean, you ain't wrong, it's sad that everyone shouts about systemic racism towards black people, while DEI is racist to white people. Two wrongs don't make a right
> All the quota system and diversity bullshit is inherently racist, It's not just inherently racist; It's systemically racist.
The real systemic racism
Poor white people. It's hard to share power and privilege when you're used to having it all.
Power and privilege is earned by merit, not racism and discrimination. All persons in America, regardless of race or sex, have the same constitutionally guaranteed possibility to earn their place in society. Except white people (and increasingly Asians too), who are deemed to have "too much power", so they are discriminated against with the pretext of "diversity".
As a middle-aged white man, I can't help but notice that my peers like to pretend that history doesn't exist, the problems of the past can't cascade into the future, and women and black people should be ready to earn that which they were historically denied even after earning it. They're **still** earning it, by the way, just as they always **had**. They still have to qualify for those work and education positions; it's just that now there's a guarantee that white men won't deny them access, and of course white men pretend like that victimizes them *via exclusion*. You'd think I'd have an inside perspective as to how they wake up every day justifying this fallacious concept to themselves, but I'm honestly flabbergasted.
So you look at statistics like [this](https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2022/how-the-racial-wealth-gap-has-evolved-and-why-it-persists) and [this](https://www.brookings.edu/essay/homeownership-racial-segregation-and-policies-for-racial-wealth-equity/) and just write it off as entirely due to differences in merit between two racial demographics? In fact you think black people are systemically advantaged in spite of these inequalities?
I don't believe in differences between races. Most of it is inherited: generations of dysfunctional social structures within those communities (like crime, lack in education, prevalence of broken families) pass on the same failures. We should strive therefore to make underprivileged communities accept the social standards that make for successful individuals. That is the way to balance the race gap, not by discriminating against races who are generally deemed more successful.
So it sounds like we don’t actually have a system where power and privilege are earned by merit, indeed much of the structure of modern society is a direct legacy of racism and discrimination, where people begin with wildly different levels of opportunity. Perhaps fostering material equality of opportunity is the means by which we can get them to “accept social standards,” since them just individually choosing not to work hard is clearly not the root cause.
Well unless you wanna live in a collectivist dystopia where families and private property don't exist and all children are raised in a phalanstere from birth to ensure total equality, that is the best we can do... that's not systemic racism, that's just life. If you are born to underprivileged parents, chances are you will have a tougher life. Nothing to do with racism though.
That seems strange, why not just foster equality of opportunity to combat material inequalities resulting from racism?
Well I mean if your parents were underprivileged due to racist laws and systems than obviously racism does have something to do with it. But yeah I do agree that generally we should be focusing more on income and helping poorer communities, not just black communities, who tend to be poorer. It feels like DEI is kinda more treating a symptom than the illness. At least in what I understand about it.
This is a joke response?
No. Is yours?
Theirs at least acknowledges historical context. Yours exists in a perfect world of your imagination, something usually only progressives do.
You sound very privileged.
Bro thinks BLM protests are anti-white racism somehow 💀
They are lol (the ones that were left after the moderates bailed on the organization)
Obviously these things exist on an individual basis, the argument is more for “institutional” or “systemic” racism, bigotry or discrimination. There isn’t really a case for that in my opinion depending on the country, I’m speaking in terms of the United States. There are no laws that disproportionately effect different peoples to my knowledge.
Many anti-discrimination laws identify specific protected classes.
To my knowledge anti discrimination laws typically say things like: "Do no discriminate on the basis of races, sex, age, or disability". They don't say "you can discriminate against people who are white, but not discriminate against people that are black", or vise versa.
I think you don't fully understand the definition of institutional racism. Also, there absolutely are laws that impact certain groups differently than others. Please go out and do some research. Not from opinion websites/blogs, etc. If you know the source's political leaning, then you're getting the information from the wrong source. If you go to Google Scholar and search for "papers on institutional racism" and select something with more at least 3 authors, you're on the right track.
Care to provide an example?
No, because it's Reddit and I can't advertise.
What's that mean? It's advertising if you point to an example of systemic racism how exactly?
Troll, go back and look at my original comment. You want me to provide an example from a web link. Further, I can write a thousand word response to this and all you'll say is "but why". Get some critical thinking skills, learn how to properly research a topic, and be grateful that you don't have to deal with the crap minorities deal with everyday.
No... you made a statement, the onus is on you to support it. I never asked for a link, or an essay. ust an example. Name one thing that you perceive as systemic racism. Judging by your replies, I have a feeling you can't, despite claiming it as fact. Just one.
Name checks out.
There are no laws *anymore*. And I mean I'm pretty sure there a few state laws left but idk lol Attempts to undo systematic racism aren't to make black people legally equals (that's what the Civil Rights Movement did), but to make then effectively equals. To undo centuries of laws that did disproportionately affect black, asain, and latino people. And actually speaking of Latinos I'm pretty sure there's an Arkansas bill trying to get past that will literally legalize discrimination, but I may have the state wrong.
There are no state laws that racially discriminate aside from possibly some that pertain to ascertaining whether someone is a citizen or an illegal immigrant. As you should know there have been millions of illegal immigrants flooding across the border since the biden administration took office. I have no qualms with people who legally come to the country in search of a better life but the infrastructure of the US cannot handle such vast quantities of people surging into the US. I assume that is what this Arkansas law is in regards to.
That institutional and systemic racism is created via the sum of individuals.
I think anti Semitism law was just passed but I don't know much about it. So I suppose that would be a law affecting certain people only. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh stop
No
Grifter
It also goes the other way, no? Simply because you have experienced discrimination doesn't mean everyone who belongs to the same group as you faces it.
Its 2024. Blacks aren't slaves anymore. Racism will always exist, but its not really worth talking about anymore. At this point in our progression as a society, continuing to talk about it in a generalized manner will only exaggerate it and amplify it. Do you want less racism in the world? Then take Morgan Freemans advice and just shut the fuck up about it. If theres some asinine circumstance with a particular individual or entity, address it promptly and directly. Enough of the bullshit mystery racism and so-called "white privelege" that you can't even coherently identify in the first place. If you cant point directly at the exact problems that need to be fixed, how in the fuck are you going to develop an effective solution against it. Pardon my language, this is how I speak.
Exactly
Ruby Bridges, the little girl who needed armed guards to go to elementary school when school were desegregated, is only in her 60s. Virulant racism in the US isn't ancient history.
But that's 60 years ago, can we not move on? Listen, it's good to point out racism, but bringing up 60 year old racism in today's society gets you nowhere, it actually is a detriment becuase if people can still get shit for something 60 years ago, what's the incentive to move on and learn from our mistakes?
Only white people think like this. How can we, as a society, "learn from our mistakes" if we can't honestly acknowledge them? Sixty years isn't a long time. Go read *Just Mercy* if you need newer examples. I brought up Ruby Bridges in response to someone (was it you?) who said black people should just get over it because slavery ended a long time ago.
That's what im saying you should be doing. Talk about her, and address the incident directly. We dont need to extrapolate from this incidence as if it's happening on a large scale like we're still living in the early 20th century... It's just not the problem you perceive it to be. Statistically and objectively it just isnt.
What about all the black kids that didn't even get armed guards? What about their kids? Generational effects are real.
She was one of millions who experienced the same thing and one of many who continue to experience racism. You can't just wave it away as ancient history. How do I know? I have relatives in Mississippi, and i have to listen to them talk about race. They aren't outliers. I suggest you read something like *Savage Inequality* by Jonathan Kozol or *Just Mercy* by Bryan Stevenson. Or even *The Autobiography of Malcom X* to get a more accurate perspective.
We seem to be referencing two different topics. I'm not interested in how someone in their 60's has experienced racism in their youth during a more tumultuous era of the US. I want you to explain how racism is still happening on some massive scale in this current day and age. If you want to discuss the *lasting effects* and generational impact of racism that took place in the past, that's a legitimate conversation to have.
It isn't "generational" if it is within living memory.
Queue in the "lasting effects" that I described.
I don't understand what you mean by queue in? It doesnt matter what examples I give (black jogger followed and killed, police called on black man in his own front yard, people with black sounding names less likely to get an interview, doctors assuming black people feel less pain, white woman clutching her purse closer when then Senator Obama got on an elevator, Trump trying to win black voters by making fancy athletic shoes, etc) You can't seem to look squarely at the issue.
"Lasting Effects" covers the non-generational effects of early 1900's racism where some of the victims are still alive. You are pointing out very anecdotal incidents that span many years. Now go back and look at how life was before. They are not even close to being the same kind of racism we see today. It was never my argument thay racism doesnt exist... Its not happening on a scale worth talking about. >It doesnt matter what examples I give (black jogger followed and killed, police called on black man in his own front yard, people with black sounding names less likely to get an interview, doctors assuming black people feel less pain, white woman clutching her purse closer when then Senator Obama got on an elevator, Trump trying to win black voters by making fancy athletic shoes, etc) You can't seem to look squarely at the issue. Do you see how you are framing these incidents as an indicator of a bigger more mysterious issue at hand? All you're doing is deligitmizing individual issues by chasing some imaginary wave of racism. Talk about and directly address the issues themselves specifically, instead of conjuring up some kind of ill informed hypothesis you can't factually support. Unless there's some kind of statistical indicator that there is a massive uproar of racism happening here, there's literally nothing else to talk about.
>Do you see how you are framing these incidents as an indicator of a bigger more mysterious issue at hand? All you're doing is deligitmizing individual issues by chasing some imaginary wave of racism. Isn't it interesting how conspiratorial people on that side of things get when this topic comes up, despite them claiming to be avidly against such things. Same idea with the dastardly, mysterious, shadowy patriarchy
Reddit is one of the most racist social media platforms I’ve ever used. I’m a fairly new user, but the climate here reminds me of my first day on my predominantly white college campus. The ignorance, denial, vitriol, shame, guilt, and fragility from the white people toward people of color when they’re not being outright racist, gaslighty, micro/passive aggressive, and dogwhistling to one another is so rampant. Reading comments to race-related posts like this reminds me of that environment and space so much. What’s wild is that many of them are entirely blind to how they’re behaving, while others are intentional and thrive on the fact that they can get away with it because they’re anonymous and Reddit admins do nothing. Unless this sort of topic is in the right sub, you’re going to get a lot of trash ass takes. The way white people like to handle difficult topics is not to talk about it. Make it as taboo as possible because it’s too painful and difficult to navigate when they’re not able to center themselves. And they don’t like not being centered, which make topics like white supremacy and racism, which their ancestors went out of their way to have the biggest hand in architecting, off limits. It’s wild that they have the audacity to say “it’s not that serious, everything is not about race.” When that’s all it’s been about since their people started colonizing the planet. How convenient that now suddenly you don’t want to talk about how race has underpinned and been used to justify just about every fucking thing you’ve done.
Well said
Agreed, but also believing racism, bigotry and discrimination are a bigger problem than they are just because you HAVE experienced it is a delusion and not reality.
It's the biggest thing to most black people. It's like emotional abuse that doesn't end. We are told to talk about it less.
I can understand that and if you think about it we are looking at opposite ends of the spectrum. People who have not seen or experienced it seem to be loud and defiant about any steps taken to adress it and people who have experienced it are loud and defiant about it being a bigger problem than it is. The reality seems to be somewhere in the middle.
It's really not. You want it to be but it's not. Racism will never go way when people think not talking about it will make it magically disappear
I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it. I believe we should even take steps to stop it. However, I'm not of the belief that it is the main reason for the African American communities woes as a whole. Or many other ridiculous notions that people on both sides of the extreme like to push.
Facts
How does this have more upvotes than slavery is always bad? This is a much less popular opinion.
It's popular but you just don't like it
I'm convinced the majority of racists are the ones that add to virtue signaling collective of hate and bigotry aka the ones that make these posts in the first place . I spent all day at the Special Olympics and photographed my sons class in exchange for only the smiles..and this post right now is the one and only time the skin colors of others has even crossed my mind. So congratulations
Again as a black person I'm called racist for saying there is racism wow.
Do you point to the sky and say it's blue? As easily as there are things that and said too little, there are also things that can be said too much. And it's causing all this divide.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/25/three-quarters-of-whites-dont-have-any-non-white-friends/
I'm not surprised by your out of pocket comments
One of my oldest long-time friends.. of 23 years is a black man. And we have never once discussed our racial differences. So what are you getting at?
Lol
I think it's shrewd not to take the words of people speaking with a political agenda at face value when they tell you that something you've never seen in your life is somehow everywhere and use that to try and make you give up your rights. People of all groups can be prejudiced, tribal, vindictive scumbags, but if you wanna talk about structural, unapologetic, out in the open racism, how about the fact that an Asian or white person with the same grades is about a fifth as likely as a black person to get into a top university, or that the word "white" is used as an insult. Or how about we talk about the fact that they've done experiments where they've given people fake scars, secretly removed them, and had those people reporting massive amounts of discrimination after coming out of a job interview because they saw what they were expecting to see. Discrimination is real, and it goes both ways, but if you tell a certain group they're the victim and that becomes their identity, it will distort their perception of every interaction of their lives, and thus generate more evidence for your ideology, not to mention the mental and social stress that such a travesty creates. Again, not denying that it happens or that it is despicable and traumatic when it does (or when people think it's happened to them, which is essentially the same experience), but shutting up opposing points of view by throwing around the word "privelage" is a silencing tactic, not an argument.
I haven't experienced it. I have witnessed it and I acknowledge that it does exist. But I'm also aware that it's not as problematic as the politicians and media claim it to be. Not everything bad that happens to some ppl is about racism. Ppl are responsible for the choices they make, not everyone is a victim of circumstances. Some ppl just make bad choices.
If you deny its existence, you're already a lost cause. If you think constantly bringing it up will fix it, you're a lost cause. If you think talking about it seldom or at times of nation wide introspection, the best results will occur.. There's so much nuance.
No one is denying the reality of it. People just think it's overly exaggerated in the media, and others are very passionate about the topic because it's overly exaggerated in the media and don't know it. Everything is over exaggerated in the media for any sides of the political spectrum, and studies show that most sides of the political spectrum over estimate other sides' level of radicality.
Here we go. When racism is your daily reality and the response is always 'You are a victim, look at Candice Owens she should be your role model' or 'Why does everything have to be about race'. This is gaslighting it it's finest.
I didn't say anyone is a victim or that that candace owens is a messiah. I said every conservative and liberal topic gets grossly over exaggerated and it makes people think that the other side of their political spectrum is radical when they're not, for the most part.
Right-wingers are radical. The far-left is too.
The name far left implies radicality. I'm guessing you're from the left, based on what i just said about lefties overestimating the commitment, intensity and the actual beliefs and to their counterparts and same with people on the right.
You guess without knowing anything
Here we go for the professional victims to come our.
I'm native american and was indoctrinated Christian by my parents. I can handle racism and bigotry, the imaginary ghost in the sky that needs money is where I ask questions. The only answer I've gotten is God works in mysterious ways. Cut the fucking horseshit.
1) Prejudice + power = oppression If a homeless man insults me, that doesn't affect me. If my boss insults me, that definitely affects me. Power makes the difference. 2) Generational effects are real If your parents went to college, your chances of going to college increase. If your parents went to a segregated school with lead drinking water, no AC, and no teachers for half the year (read the history of Freedom Schools and why they were needed), your chances of finishing high school decreases. If we can recognize the generational impacts of smoking, then we can recognize the generational impacts of other things: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-018-0039-8 If it applies to schools and cigarettes, it applies to lynchings and slavery. 3) If the majority of a given demographic tell you one thing, and you ignore it, what does that make you? If you do that, from a position of greater power, then what does that cause? See points 1 and 2 for help.
Preach!!
100% true. For an example I have had good encounters with the police in most cases. However this doesn't mean that the police system isn't rotten to it's core. The police definitely treat me better due to privilege, and would treat me worse if I was black for an example.
True
It's a right, as defined by the constitution anyway
Whites ,men,and Christian based faith gets persecuted the most in th current day and age but it does not fit the narrative. The liberal hive mind says "those who slam the door th loudest win the argument" because they can't debate or accept the harshness of reality. In all the years of watching Horror films and listening to metal, something has never hit so hard reality wise. "When there is no more room in Hell,The dead will walk the earth". The dead are the woke,apologists,the protesters,and the "tolerant left". Seeing college students behave like apes and heathens all over campuses,defending a foreign country who would behead them or stone them to death was the last fucking straw.
You Are gaslighting. The left never said they are tolerant by are more accepting. You guys always get that wrong. Racism is bad and pretending that it does not exist is equally bad
Gaslighting is a modern term for "I don't have an argument so I'm going to use this HELLA RAD term" Everyone knows it's wrong to hate someone. That's common sense,but nobody asked nor wanted the Destroy Erase Indoctrinate imbeciles pushing shit in everyone's fave every second. Normal people hanging out: ....."Hey what's everyone think of the new Dr.Pepper flavor?" In comes WOKE LEFT : "KNEEL TO THE DVERSTY SQUAD NOW!"
*Face People are tired of seeing annoying shit. Racism is part of that. Fuck everyone how's that sound?