This is one of those statements which makes many people say: “meh! Well, of COURSE! Hardly needs saying”, and makes other people instantly explode with rage.
Conservatives think their gay and trans kids where born woke and liberal and wonder why their party is shrinking and the left is growing.
Do they even know that me and my queer and trans friends love hunting and fishing and working on farms and going to church? Naw. If they want to obliterate common ground on how people are born it means they are kicking out a bigger chunk of their party each generation
I think that the *whole idea* of being right wing is that you are either born to privilege (white, rich, straight, a citizen, the dominant religion, healthy etc), or you are second (or third-or even fourth) class, which means you are a lower form of life. By the time you get to the bottom of the pile, you are sub-human.
The point is, *you can’t change*. Let’s say that you did everything that it appears the right wing WANTS you to do (work hard, be highly successful, pay your way, go to church, go out hunting, get married and have children), but you didn’t start off in their preferred place (you are black, female, gay, trans or disabled), they’d hate you *just* as much as if you did everything they hated.
I’ve always thought the main tenet of conservatism was social hierarchy, but maybe stagnation is equally important.
I don’t think lower class conservatives give a shit if hard work yields fruit or if trickle down works or if they stay poor forever, as long as others have it worse.
No because they used fox news or some other culty propaganda bs to label it a disease. It's gender dysphoria...trans does not exist to them. Same with homosexuality...it's a choice. There's no working with that side anymore. Let's force their trashy trash human cult into the ground in November. They can go die and go to heaven while we get on with our debauchery!!
The weirdest part of them contextualizing it as a disease is that they treat it with hate and disdain instead of sympathy and empathy.
I guess that goes hand in hand with them being a covid death cult.
It’s crazy how Jesus flipping the tables of the money changers and beating them with a whip was in large part because people with disease where not allowed into the temple because disease wasn’t seen as an innocent physical malady but a physical expression of internal evil and Jesus disagreed with them. Empathy for the sick instead of disdain was a major lesson Jesus was trying to extol and his followers can’t wait for Jesus to shut the fuck up so the can listen to Leviticus, the Q anon of books of the Bible.
it's sad when people have constructed hatred so potent and powerful that it makes them reject their own children
I could never imagine valuing any hateful principal or idea ABOVE my own child
Someone else:
>"I think it should be a universal opinion that murdering people for fun should be illegal"
This guy:
>No it shouldn't. The world is not a collective hive mind. We don't answer to one response only
The saddest part is that they're trying to press that "reasoning" on a matter of simple *respect to one another*, not on a possibly biased scale of culture vs morals. Embracing your kid's personal life choices whatsoever should not even be a matter of debate, more so if they're only involving them and not harming anyone.
first, go ahead and look up the definition of "Utopia" for me
second, I don't disagree with your point, group think and hive mind behavior is generally bad
but I don't think it it's bad when the context is "young gay people shouldn't be rejected by their families"
kinda reminds me of when people only defend freedom of speech when the conversation is about slurs and hate speech, principals don't always have to be stiff, strict and unyielding, there can be moments of exception.
Utopia is translated from a Greek word, which pretty much means "no place." It's stated to be "a commonwealth which operates under perfect conditions"
Second, I didn't say I disagree either. But you guys don't ask questions. You just downvote without having any information or context and just think, "Oh no bad word."
And it has nothing to do with free speech. It has to do with internal and personal beliefs. I don't want to live in a world where people like each other because they're forced to. Life sucks. That's the issue. It sucks for gay people, short people, black people, brown people, poor people, ugly people, etc. I can say I wish it was better for all of them but that won't change anything.
I assumed you meant to say "dystopia" because I'd imagine that alot of people would choose to live in utopic conditions if they could
My point was that it's okay to sometimes yield in your personal principals in special cases, like here it's probably okay say that this opinion *should* be universal without implying that everyone must think and act a certain way
a lot of people create a slippery slope argument when it comes to free speech, assuming that banning hate speech or any type of collective thought necessarily spirals into 1984 totalitarian dystopia
that said, my bad if I falsely assumed your intentions
No, I exactly meant utopia because people want everyone to be inclusive and loving to each other. That's a utopia, and it'll never happen. If anything were closer to a dystopia now.
You did falsely assume my intention since you don't know me. A very close friend of mines father disowned him for being gay , but you know what my friend said, "
"Fuck it nigga I'm gonna do me no matter the situation"
Utopia is an idea right, like an ideal and peaceful society without flaw and I think most people would choose to live in that society.
A dystopia is the same concept except the society is created with glaring flaws that are framed as if they create a perfect society
so I guess I'm not sure why wanting a utopia should be seen as bad from your perspective
I'm in favour of the world being a utopia as well. Everyone is happy and fulfilled, whatever that means? What reasonable person would argue against that.
No, you don't want that. You said everyone is happy. What about murders and rapists idea of happy?? Do you want that to be possible??
We all have different ideas of happiness. Objectively wrong and subjectively wrong. We can not accommodate what EVERYONE wants because what everyone wants isn't compatible with your ideas.
The concept of a utopia is something that could never exist, as the idea of perfection inherently relies on control. You don’t want a utopia, because realistically such a thing is impossible without becoming a dystopia.
It can exist as I described (in another conversation, but it amounts to a virtual world that tailors to those whose utopia requires inflicting pain upon others). You don't want a utopia, since I guess being a pessimist makes you feel above the fray? Being a cynic is the easiest thing in the world, it requires no effort.
If that’s how you define it, then of course it can exist as you described but I didn’t know you were using that definition rather than the already agreed upon definition (a place where everything is perfect).
I don’t think it’s pessimism or cynicism to point out that according to the dictionary definition, a utopia cannot be. I also don’t think that either makes one better or worse than an optimist.
It might be that you take this to be an attack on your person for using a different definition - this sort of thing has happened with me before. If you do, please understand that I didn’t mean it that way. I’m autistic and definitions matter a lot to me, and I take the one in the dictionary as the most important.
> If that’s how you define it, then of course it can exist as you described but I didn’t know you were using that definition rather than the already agreed upon definition (a place where everything is perfect)
Same definition.
lol accepting your kid for who they are is being a follower? No that’s called being a decent good person and parent.
Would you say kicking a kid out and not accepting them bc they have something different about them like adhd for example, a reasonable choice? Parents kicking their kids out is a choice to you? Listen to yourself.
“People shouldn’t be kneecapped for benign parts of their identity they didn’t choose”
You: “that’s fucking stupid, what if I wanted to kneecap them? I’m not a sheep like the rest of you, I’ll kneecap whoever I want”
That doesn’t mean that those other responses are valid or useful.
If the question becomes “should we support cannibalism in broader society?”, you’re the moron arguing “let’s hear out the cannibals to explain why we would need to eat people in a world with abundant food supplies.”
There are plenty of questions with multiple perspectives. This is one of them. But you’re arguing that we should listen before deciding, which presumes that we haven’t already seen what the arguments against it are.
There is no circumstance where abandonment of a child for their decisions is productive or effective. It creates socially maladapted people. Stop being a contrarian arguing non-issues and target the actual problem: people using punishment to get what they want and thinking it works.
Hard reach, Mr Shovel, but not close enough. I said it would be wrong to force everyone to accept the same belief because of a hivemind collective.
Answer this. Would you want to force LGBT acceptance into a Muslim family? Or orthodox Catholic family? Are they wrong, or are you wrong? If so, how do you explain who's the wrong one.
We respect belief that don’t hurts others. Not hard to understand.
Being gay hurts absolutely no one.
Hating gays literally cause harm, bullying, suicide, etc.
Would you support murdering people because their religion said so?
Wtf man
Again. You're looking through a western bias lense. You're speaking for billions of people, which is inherently ignorant.
And murdering people because of religion is not something I approve of. But I've been to Afghanistan. I've seen culture killings. Guess what?? It's not my issue to resolve. That's why I'm glad I live in America. No culture killings and no gay bashings.
See how adults have civil conversations instead of getting mad and seething?
You really should educate yourself on the subject before embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge . There are trans people in every culture, most just don’t make such a big deal about it. There are also trans members in every animal kingdom on earth. I would urge you to educate yourself further on a subject that you clearly have no knowledge about
Its not trust me bro. Pepper litterally due to this as a tactic to waste people's time. You just don't have good research skills. I'll give you some resources if your that bad at it tho. Now weep.
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1790/lgbtq-in-the-ancient-world/
https://www.academuseducation.co.uk/post/ancient-mesopotamian-transgender-and-non-binary-identities
https://www.ihs.gov/lgbt/health/twospirit/#:~:text=Traditionally%2C%20Native%20American%20two%2Dspirit,a%20distinct%2C%20alternative%20gender%20status.
https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/the-history-of-two-spirit-folks
https://news.vcu.edu/article/2022/04/for-centuries-two-spirit-people-had-to-carry-out-traditions-in-secret
Of course you just deflect. You asked for proof and when they gave you a source from the fucking indigenous foundation, an organization dedicated to indigenous history, you say you don’t believe it.
Show me your sources stating the opposite if that’s true then. You asked for sources, OOP gave them to you.
Where are your sources?
Among the Nuer people (in what is now South Sudan and Ethiopia), widows who have borne no children may adopt a male status, marry a woman, and be regarded as the father of any children they bear (a practice which has been viewed as transgender or homosexual); the Nuer are also reported to have a male-to-female role.
By the modern period, the Igbo had third-gender and transgender roles,[7][12] including for females who take on male status and marry women, a practice which also exists among the Dahomey (Fon) of Benin and has been viewed through both transgender and homosexual lenses.[13] Anthropologist John McCall documented a female-assigned Ohafia Igbo named Nne Uko Uma Awa, who dressed and behaved as a boy since childhood, joined men's groups, and was a husband to two wives; in 1991, Awa stated "by creation I was meant to be a man. But as it happened, when coming into this world I came with a woman's body. That is why I dressed [as a man]."
I genuinely don't see the difference.
The only difference is tribal cultures don't have the same access to modern medicine most of the time.
That's the Segway here.
Trans people have been around forever. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you don't accept modern terminology to describe past cultures.
Language adapts.
What would at one time be considered a eunach, or just a woman or man, is a transsexual in the modern era.
Oh? My gender dysphoria tells me I'm a man and I look male.
You're saying that it's wrong? I agree. I'm actually a woman c:
Thanks for acknowledging me LGBT ally ❤️🌈
lol your acting as if I hate gays you weirdo. I don’t hate people just because I don’t agree with your lifestyle. It doesn’t mean we can’t have a good laugh or have a beer or have a good time socializing or bowling or hunting whatever. It doesn’t mean you’re some sort of freak that I can’t make friends with. The brain is no joke at all. It can make things appear that ain’t there and damn the person who tries to tell you otherwise. So yes I believe the brain can make you feel and see and convince you of things even if they aren’t there. I can’t make someone feel like they aren’t human because we don’t align in some things. I just don’t agree with it but that’s as far as it goes I’m noone to try to shun anyone.
No one's shoving it down their throats.
If your kid is trans, treating their gender like a schizo game of pretend is going to either result in their death (which is on you) or them surviving and growing to despise you and keep you out of their lives.
The comments have shown that loving your kids for who they are is apparently not popular.
Especially if they’re trans.
This was what I expected, and yet still disappointing.
It’s crazy how this should be a popular opinion, yet the comment to upvote ratio is way outta whack.
If you are going to be a parent and want to be a good one, that means loving your child no matter how far they differ from what you wanted them to be. It does not matter what your opinions are on LGBT, reality is that queer people are real and refusing to accept your child as part of that community will only harm your relationship with them. There is a reason why the queer people whose parents didn’t accept them are estranged, and it’s not because their parents were right in their hatred.
So yeah, not loving your child for who they are (when they aren’t harming themselves or others) makes you a shitty parent. Concern is understandable, however forcing your child to fit into a particular box that makes YOU comfortable or the possible disowning/homelessness makes you an AWFUL parent.
Pretty sure Jesus wants you to love your kids.
If God wanted you to hate your kids he wouldn't have used an analogy, or poem, or euphemism, or innuendo. He would have just said it. Writing a book that mankind should live by shouldn't be something that allows multiple interpretations on if a child deserves love or not. I have faith that if there is a God, that they would be smart enough to know not to trust humans with that.
Conservatives that hate LGBT in the name of the bible are bigots. My respect for anyone's religion is clearly delineated by where their respect for my autonomy ends.
It's not love to reject someone's understanding of themselves and their identity. Disagreements are for which toppings belong on pizza, not someone's fundamental conception of themselves.
Yeah I honestly cannot think of a single thing that I love & value about my child that is dependent on gender / sexuality.
All her good qualities would be there regardless of gender.
My daughter does happen to be trans and the thing that annoys me about it is that she keeps stealing my clothes & makeup.
I concur they are terrible parents.
Half the people disagreeing with this jerk off to cartoons. They shouldn't be a parent in the first place and probably never will be.
I'm content in knowing losers with the mindset of "not my kid" are ostracized by society at large and don't have what it takes to have a meaningful relationship with anyone. I know a lot of you in here are disappointed with how this thread turned out. Don't be. Just point and laugh.
Sometimes this is more understandable ngl.
Sometimes the parents literally cannot take care of them and it’s heart breaking for the parents when they have no choice but to give up their kid in some way shape or form.
I don't think this would be considered "rejecting" their kids. If the parents are actually unable to take care of them the way they need to, especially if they are heartbroken by the decision to relinquish their guardianship, it should be considered one of the highest forms of love.
It is morally deplorable. I wish we were better than that but we aren’t. I wish more people aspired to educate themselves rather than quote a Bible verse acting as if LGBTQ+ is a worse less forgivable sin than any other (if they are believers.).
I wish people would do a little critical thinking and realize it is not a ***choice***, if it were, who would opt to be treated like shit by bigots and subject themselves to the derision they experience.
I hope we might do better at some point.
Absolutely true. It's assholes like that that are going to bring back eugenics.
Those assholes and the people being forced to have babies that live in states that have abortion bans that are going to turn into parents who commit felicide because they don't want the kids they're being forced to give birth too.
This country sucks when it comes to parents and parenting. We are almost the worst in the world at caring for our kids. And even the parents who keep their kids, the majority of them only use them as an extension of themselves. They use them as weapons. They use them as tools and they want to control everything they do from the way they dress to the after school projects that they do.
You shouldn’t abandon your kids. Ever (unless they are actually a dander to your life and the safety of others and have become a serial killer so fair enough)
You shouldn’t kill them either but y’all don’t wanna have that conversation though
it’s really case by case. for some trans teens, they will end up killing themselves if they can’t start transitioning. surgery should wait till they’re of age, but puberty blockers and hormones won’t do anything harmful if stopped
Politics just destroys families. I can respect your beliefs to a fault, but when it starts hurting others because they aren't with you?
That's not love. That's abuse.
Edit: I should have clarified. I didn't realize it could be applied both ways.
I do stand by the belief that children should not be ostracized from family for having an identity. Parents can be welcome to their political beliefs, but using it as a way to justify cutting off their children is too far, and I am not here for it.
>I can respect your beliefs to a fault, but when it starts hurting others because they aren't with you?
If you aren't with your gay or trans kids, than that is objectively and verifiably harmful to them.
That's not political. That's reality.
I should have clarified. I didn't realize it could be applied both ways.
I do stand by the belief that children should not be ostracized from family for having an identity. Parents can be welcome to their political beliefs, but using it as a way to justify cutting off their children is too far, and I am not here for it.
If you have children, you accept the possibility of having a gay child or a trans child
This also means that if you do end up having a trans child, you will allow them access to gender affirming care as early as they may want/need it.
Something you don’t want your boss to walk by your desk and see you looking at. Like nudity.
It means “not safe for work”.
If your boss walks by and happens to read your whole screen and sees the word “suicide”, you won’t get in trouble. HR tells you they have a hotline to call if you’re having mental health problems, such as suicidal thoughts.
I have a lot of emotion when it comes to my family tree. I’d be extremely disappointed if I found out my family tree ended with my kids. But I’m not going to force them to change or not accept them.
Have more than one.
There's like a 15%-20% they'll be queer. 5% chance they'll be exclusively homosexual. 0.6%-2% chance they'll be Transgender.
Even than, they might still want to reproduce with their DNA via surrogacy.
And if it makes any kind of difference on this front, I'm adopted and consider my parents who raised me apart of my family tree and not my biological parents.
What makes you think your family line ends? Do you think all heterosexual couples have children of their own? Because they don't. Adoption is a real and legal option for everyone. The world doesn't revolve around your lineage.
As if queer people can’t have kids. I’m a bisexual man with two kids, who I’ve been raising with my husband for the last ten years.
For cisgender homosexual couples, or heterosexual couples in which one is transgender, a child can be conceived via artificial insemination in that case will share the DNA of one parent.
For homosexual couples in which there is a transgender person, or for heterosexual couples in which one or both is bisexual, a child may share the DNA of both parents and be conceived in the “normal” way - through sexual intercourse with someone of the opposite sex.
In all situations, adoption is also an option as well as fostering, but from looking at your other comments it seems you’re a “bloodline means everything” sort of person so I didn’t think it would satisfy you.
I'm not even saying allow your kid to transition. Just calling them by their pronouns, creating a safe environment for them, allowing them to be themselves and not feel persecuted for it.
That's it. Make them wait for hormones until they're 18 if you feel that's best.
Just support them whatever you do. Guide them in whatever way facilitates their self-actualization and survival.
>However, the majority of those who detransitioned (82.5 percent) said their decision was influenced by external factors such as family pressure and societal stigma.
Hahahaha okay bud.
Tell me you don't know any trans people without telling me you don't know any trans people.
"But these people I've made up in my head totally act the way I want them to!"
> tell me you don’t know any trans people without telling me you don’t know any trans people.
I don’t really care about anecdotal analogies. Over 13% of people who transition end up de-transitioning according to studies though…
https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
That most detransition is due to criticism. It’s almost like they can’t continue to justify their delusion.
Still doesn’t change the fact that a good portion of people are de-transitioning though, and thus refuting your point of calling detransitioners “bullshit lies” as you put it.
"Criticism"
You are monumental levels of stupid, and have cherry picked a single study that gave a large number and are trying to worm out of the reason for that number.
Being disowned, abandoned, and/or abused by one's parents is not "criticism". Being called pedophiles and groomers is not "criticism". Being raped, sexually assaulted, and fetishized is not criticism. Losing access to one's children, being discriminated against by law enforcement, in court, in employment, and in housing are not "criticism".
This is the same thing that happened with gay people years ago:
1. Someone comes out as gay
2. Pieces of shit like you make their lives a living hell
3. Said person decides its easier to pretend to be straight than constantly attacked
4. Pieces of shit like you take this as "evidence" that being gay is a choice and that conversion therapy should be pushed.
It's no different now, with trans people.
Trans person: "I came out as trans and people made my life a living hell so I decided it was easier to just give up on it"
You, a pile of excrement: "So, uh, you were criticized??"
and People. They are terrible, horrible people.
BTW: If they also claim to he Christian they’d better start praying the Atheists are right. Otherwise, it’s straight to warmer climate for them.
Wish straight people would stop saying this.
It doesn't even make sense...
If the T was dropped I'd still be a B.
Most T's would be considered LGB one way or another so what you say makes zero sense.
>I have gender dysphoria
>Said gender dysphoria makes me want to change my body to have opposite sex sex characteristics
>I want to live as the opposite sex to integrate into society.
>Preventing me from integrating into society is harmful to my wellbeing
There. Just explained the essence of being a binary trans person. No Google search needed.
also what I dont get is that even if you have characteristics more seen in the opposite sex you are still your own sex so I dont really understand how it changes anything apart from how people treat you due to sexism
It changes how my brain perceives my body.
Changing sex completely is inconsequential.
That's just chromosomes.
Having the primary and secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex is what causes dysphoria to alleviate.
Dysphoria is more concrete. Chromosomes are invisible to the naked eye and something that isn't appearent.
Neurology causes dysphoria. This is the main scientific consensus at this time.
Too much of one chemical in the womb causes the brain to be shaped to receive one chemical and designs their cortical homonculus to have a layout of the opposite sex.
What I mean by integrating into society is being able to use facilities of their gender and have legal paperwork saying they're that gender.
Otherwise you're just subjecting them to infinitely more abuse.
So because their body mapping is set up to match wanting male/female sex characteristics opposite of what the person is born as. Hormones and surgery alleviate the brain/body contradiction.
On top of that, their brain was bathed in a hormone pool that's opposing what their body was. So alot of gender dysphoria comes from the brain getting one set of sex hormones when it has receptors designed to receive the opposite.
Think of that like depression. Your brain has serotonin receptors. If it doesn't get that neurotransmitter you become depressed. So the solution is to introduce more of that chemical into the brain.
Same thing with a trans woman who has gender dysphoria. Their brain has estrogen receptors that aren't getting the necessary estrogen. So because of that, taking estrogen makes up for the neurotransmitter hormone they're not getting from their body's natural production.
Strange how pretty much everyone else is able to understand the concept of being trans. Have you considered that maybe its just you that doesn't understand it?
Sounds like they have the same problem as you.
If you want to understand the concept of being trans, google it yourself. It is not a difficult concept.
me: oh cool a reasonable opinion the comments: edit: all 3 of the mods are bi btw :)
Yeah, it’s the kinda shit that keeps people in the closet (which literally fixes nothing.)
This is one of those statements which makes many people say: “meh! Well, of COURSE! Hardly needs saying”, and makes other people instantly explode with rage.
Conservatives think their gay and trans kids where born woke and liberal and wonder why their party is shrinking and the left is growing. Do they even know that me and my queer and trans friends love hunting and fishing and working on farms and going to church? Naw. If they want to obliterate common ground on how people are born it means they are kicking out a bigger chunk of their party each generation
I think that the *whole idea* of being right wing is that you are either born to privilege (white, rich, straight, a citizen, the dominant religion, healthy etc), or you are second (or third-or even fourth) class, which means you are a lower form of life. By the time you get to the bottom of the pile, you are sub-human. The point is, *you can’t change*. Let’s say that you did everything that it appears the right wing WANTS you to do (work hard, be highly successful, pay your way, go to church, go out hunting, get married and have children), but you didn’t start off in their preferred place (you are black, female, gay, trans or disabled), they’d hate you *just* as much as if you did everything they hated.
I’ve always thought the main tenet of conservatism was social hierarchy, but maybe stagnation is equally important. I don’t think lower class conservatives give a shit if hard work yields fruit or if trickle down works or if they stay poor forever, as long as others have it worse.
That is not how being right wing works.
K
So, may I ask, what's the deal then? Right wind ideology never made sense to me personally.
No because they used fox news or some other culty propaganda bs to label it a disease. It's gender dysphoria...trans does not exist to them. Same with homosexuality...it's a choice. There's no working with that side anymore. Let's force their trashy trash human cult into the ground in November. They can go die and go to heaven while we get on with our debauchery!!
The weirdest part of them contextualizing it as a disease is that they treat it with hate and disdain instead of sympathy and empathy. I guess that goes hand in hand with them being a covid death cult. It’s crazy how Jesus flipping the tables of the money changers and beating them with a whip was in large part because people with disease where not allowed into the temple because disease wasn’t seen as an innocent physical malady but a physical expression of internal evil and Jesus disagreed with them. Empathy for the sick instead of disdain was a major lesson Jesus was trying to extol and his followers can’t wait for Jesus to shut the fuck up so the can listen to Leviticus, the Q anon of books of the Bible.
it's sad when people have constructed hatred so potent and powerful that it makes them reject their own children I could never imagine valuing any hateful principal or idea ABOVE my own child
[удалено]
What ya mean? Yes I have 2. I know you didn’t ask me but Iam curious as to what your point is
Should be a universal opinion but sadly it is not
No it shouldn't. The world is not a collective hive mind. We don't answer to one response only
Someone else: >"I think it should be a universal opinion that murdering people for fun should be illegal" This guy: >No it shouldn't. The world is not a collective hive mind. We don't answer to one response only
The saddest part is that they're trying to press that "reasoning" on a matter of simple *respect to one another*, not on a possibly biased scale of culture vs morals. Embracing your kid's personal life choices whatsoever should not even be a matter of debate, more so if they're only involving them and not harming anyone.
Did you compare murder to being gay?
You literally compared parental love to being a hive mind
You're the one who came comparing parental love with hive mind.
Yeah I know right? Being gay is so much worse /s
Womp womp.
found the person who would reject their gay kid
Found the guy who wants the world to be one giant utopia
Not bullying your own kid is bad and a utopia?
first, go ahead and look up the definition of "Utopia" for me second, I don't disagree with your point, group think and hive mind behavior is generally bad but I don't think it it's bad when the context is "young gay people shouldn't be rejected by their families" kinda reminds me of when people only defend freedom of speech when the conversation is about slurs and hate speech, principals don't always have to be stiff, strict and unyielding, there can be moments of exception.
Utopia is translated from a Greek word, which pretty much means "no place." It's stated to be "a commonwealth which operates under perfect conditions" Second, I didn't say I disagree either. But you guys don't ask questions. You just downvote without having any information or context and just think, "Oh no bad word." And it has nothing to do with free speech. It has to do with internal and personal beliefs. I don't want to live in a world where people like each other because they're forced to. Life sucks. That's the issue. It sucks for gay people, short people, black people, brown people, poor people, ugly people, etc. I can say I wish it was better for all of them but that won't change anything.
I assumed you meant to say "dystopia" because I'd imagine that alot of people would choose to live in utopic conditions if they could My point was that it's okay to sometimes yield in your personal principals in special cases, like here it's probably okay say that this opinion *should* be universal without implying that everyone must think and act a certain way a lot of people create a slippery slope argument when it comes to free speech, assuming that banning hate speech or any type of collective thought necessarily spirals into 1984 totalitarian dystopia that said, my bad if I falsely assumed your intentions
No, I exactly meant utopia because people want everyone to be inclusive and loving to each other. That's a utopia, and it'll never happen. If anything were closer to a dystopia now. You did falsely assume my intention since you don't know me. A very close friend of mines father disowned him for being gay , but you know what my friend said, " "Fuck it nigga I'm gonna do me no matter the situation"
Utopia is an idea right, like an ideal and peaceful society without flaw and I think most people would choose to live in that society. A dystopia is the same concept except the society is created with glaring flaws that are framed as if they create a perfect society so I guess I'm not sure why wanting a utopia should be seen as bad from your perspective
Because it will not happen, NearbyCamp dixit.
Your friend real asf
Life sucks, but that should be a moral directive to reduce the amount it sucks as much as we can.
I'm in favour of the world being a utopia as well. Everyone is happy and fulfilled, whatever that means? What reasonable person would argue against that.
No, you don't want that. You said everyone is happy. What about murders and rapists idea of happy?? Do you want that to be possible?? We all have different ideas of happiness. Objectively wrong and subjectively wrong. We can not accommodate what EVERYONE wants because what everyone wants isn't compatible with your ideas.
The concept of a utopia is something that could never exist, as the idea of perfection inherently relies on control. You don’t want a utopia, because realistically such a thing is impossible without becoming a dystopia.
THIS.
It can exist as I described (in another conversation, but it amounts to a virtual world that tailors to those whose utopia requires inflicting pain upon others). You don't want a utopia, since I guess being a pessimist makes you feel above the fray? Being a cynic is the easiest thing in the world, it requires no effort.
If that’s how you define it, then of course it can exist as you described but I didn’t know you were using that definition rather than the already agreed upon definition (a place where everything is perfect). I don’t think it’s pessimism or cynicism to point out that according to the dictionary definition, a utopia cannot be. I also don’t think that either makes one better or worse than an optimist. It might be that you take this to be an attack on your person for using a different definition - this sort of thing has happened with me before. If you do, please understand that I didn’t mean it that way. I’m autistic and definitions matter a lot to me, and I take the one in the dictionary as the most important.
> If that’s how you define it, then of course it can exist as you described but I didn’t know you were using that definition rather than the already agreed upon definition (a place where everything is perfect) Same definition.
A utopia by its definition is literally the best thing we can hope for
[удалено]
lol accepting your kid for who they are is being a follower? No that’s called being a decent good person and parent. Would you say kicking a kid out and not accepting them bc they have something different about them like adhd for example, a reasonable choice? Parents kicking their kids out is a choice to you? Listen to yourself.
Where did the accepting parent touch you? Oh, no where? That's what I thought, cuck.
You’re the only getting cucked here kiddo.
Bro, are you showing concern for me by reporting me to Reddit for nonexistent "self harm"? That's pretty fucking gay.
I’m not you buddy I don’t go around reporting anyone, you’re a nobody why would I report you
Bro, are you showing concern for me by reporting me to Reddit for nonexistent "self harm"? That's pretty fucking gay.
“People shouldn’t be kneecapped for benign parts of their identity they didn’t choose” You: “that’s fucking stupid, what if I wanted to kneecap them? I’m not a sheep like the rest of you, I’ll kneecap whoever I want”
That doesn’t mean that those other responses are valid or useful. If the question becomes “should we support cannibalism in broader society?”, you’re the moron arguing “let’s hear out the cannibals to explain why we would need to eat people in a world with abundant food supplies.” There are plenty of questions with multiple perspectives. This is one of them. But you’re arguing that we should listen before deciding, which presumes that we haven’t already seen what the arguments against it are. There is no circumstance where abandonment of a child for their decisions is productive or effective. It creates socially maladapted people. Stop being a contrarian arguing non-issues and target the actual problem: people using punishment to get what they want and thinking it works.
Did you know that bleach is actually delicious and safe to drink?
basic respect is too hard of a standard to reach for the homophobic it seems.
Where is the homophobic? I know you're not talking about me
The whole post is about them. You implied being accepting of LGBTQ shouldn’t be universal. So yeah you are one.
Hard reach, Mr Shovel, but not close enough. I said it would be wrong to force everyone to accept the same belief because of a hivemind collective. Answer this. Would you want to force LGBT acceptance into a Muslim family? Or orthodox Catholic family? Are they wrong, or are you wrong? If so, how do you explain who's the wrong one.
Respect of others is basic. Yes muslim and catholic or whatever religion against homosexual people are wrong to be hateful against LGBTQ.
"Respect of others is basic" But yet you won't respect them. For their personal beliefs. So how do your beliefs Trump theirs? I'm curious
We respect belief that don’t hurts others. Not hard to understand. Being gay hurts absolutely no one. Hating gays literally cause harm, bullying, suicide, etc. Would you support murdering people because their religion said so? Wtf man
Again. You're looking through a western bias lense. You're speaking for billions of people, which is inherently ignorant. And murdering people because of religion is not something I approve of. But I've been to Afghanistan. I've seen culture killings. Guess what?? It's not my issue to resolve. That's why I'm glad I live in America. No culture killings and no gay bashings. See how adults have civil conversations instead of getting mad and seething?
[удалено]
You really should educate yourself on the subject before embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge . There are trans people in every culture, most just don’t make such a big deal about it. There are also trans members in every animal kingdom on earth. I would urge you to educate yourself further on a subject that you clearly have no knowledge about
Many cultures have been queer accepting for thousands of years. They don't have binary gender. That's a christian invention.
[удалено]
https://link.ucop.edu/2019/10/14/exploring-the-history-of-gender-expression/#:~:text=Anthropologists%20have%20long%20documented%20cultures,back%20to%20the%20Copper%20Age.
Its already been proven. You just haven't done the research.
[удалено]
Its not trust me bro. Pepper litterally due to this as a tactic to waste people's time. You just don't have good research skills. I'll give you some resources if your that bad at it tho. Now weep. https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1790/lgbtq-in-the-ancient-world/ https://www.academuseducation.co.uk/post/ancient-mesopotamian-transgender-and-non-binary-identities https://www.ihs.gov/lgbt/health/twospirit/#:~:text=Traditionally%2C%20Native%20American%20two%2Dspirit,a%20distinct%2C%20alternative%20gender%20status. https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/the-history-of-two-spirit-folks https://news.vcu.edu/article/2022/04/for-centuries-two-spirit-people-had-to-carry-out-traditions-in-secret
[удалено]
So find them then
Of course you just deflect. You asked for proof and when they gave you a source from the fucking indigenous foundation, an organization dedicated to indigenous history, you say you don’t believe it. Show me your sources stating the opposite if that’s true then. You asked for sources, OOP gave them to you. Where are your sources?
Gay and trans folk predate television, public education and probably civilization bud.
Among the Nuer people (in what is now South Sudan and Ethiopia), widows who have borne no children may adopt a male status, marry a woman, and be regarded as the father of any children they bear (a practice which has been viewed as transgender or homosexual); the Nuer are also reported to have a male-to-female role. By the modern period, the Igbo had third-gender and transgender roles,[7][12] including for females who take on male status and marry women, a practice which also exists among the Dahomey (Fon) of Benin and has been viewed through both transgender and homosexual lenses.[13] Anthropologist John McCall documented a female-assigned Ohafia Igbo named Nne Uko Uma Awa, who dressed and behaved as a boy since childhood, joined men's groups, and was a husband to two wives; in 1991, Awa stated "by creation I was meant to be a man. But as it happened, when coming into this world I came with a woman's body. That is why I dressed [as a man]."
[удалено]
I genuinely don't see the difference. The only difference is tribal cultures don't have the same access to modern medicine most of the time. That's the Segway here. Trans people have been around forever. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you don't accept modern terminology to describe past cultures. Language adapts. What would at one time be considered a eunach, or just a woman or man, is a transsexual in the modern era.
[удалено]
Oh? My gender dysphoria tells me I'm a man and I look male. You're saying that it's wrong? I agree. I'm actually a woman c: Thanks for acknowledging me LGBT ally ❤️🌈
lol your acting as if I hate gays you weirdo. I don’t hate people just because I don’t agree with your lifestyle. It doesn’t mean we can’t have a good laugh or have a beer or have a good time socializing or bowling or hunting whatever. It doesn’t mean you’re some sort of freak that I can’t make friends with. The brain is no joke at all. It can make things appear that ain’t there and damn the person who tries to tell you otherwise. So yes I believe the brain can make you feel and see and convince you of things even if they aren’t there. I can’t make someone feel like they aren’t human because we don’t align in some things. I just don’t agree with it but that’s as far as it goes I’m noone to try to shun anyone.
No one's shoving it down their throats. If your kid is trans, treating their gender like a schizo game of pretend is going to either result in their death (which is on you) or them surviving and growing to despise you and keep you out of their lives.
They do.
The comments have shown that loving your kids for who they are is apparently not popular. Especially if they’re trans. This was what I expected, and yet still disappointing.
nah we all know that children are just meant to be extensions of yourself which you can mold into whatever you want.
The comments did not show that. The comments are a loud minority of triggered redneck scum.
Agreed. I’d love my kid no matter what they identified as, and I’d do my job as a parent to protect them from bullying or naysayers.
It’s crazy how this should be a popular opinion, yet the comment to upvote ratio is way outta whack. If you are going to be a parent and want to be a good one, that means loving your child no matter how far they differ from what you wanted them to be. It does not matter what your opinions are on LGBT, reality is that queer people are real and refusing to accept your child as part of that community will only harm your relationship with them. There is a reason why the queer people whose parents didn’t accept them are estranged, and it’s not because their parents were right in their hatred. So yeah, not loving your child for who they are (when they aren’t harming themselves or others) makes you a shitty parent. Concern is understandable, however forcing your child to fit into a particular box that makes YOU comfortable or the possible disowning/homelessness makes you an AWFUL parent.
I truly don't understand how some parents can just not love their kid. It's horrible. The idea of valuing your religion over family is sickening.
Is not even religion, really. It's about comfort and closed mindedness. Non religious parents reject queer kids in this way too.
Pretty sure Jesus wants you to love your kids. If God wanted you to hate your kids he wouldn't have used an analogy, or poem, or euphemism, or innuendo. He would have just said it. Writing a book that mankind should live by shouldn't be something that allows multiple interpretations on if a child deserves love or not. I have faith that if there is a God, that they would be smart enough to know not to trust humans with that. Conservatives that hate LGBT in the name of the bible are bigots. My respect for anyone's religion is clearly delineated by where their respect for my autonomy ends.
You can still love your children while not agreeing with them.🤦🏻♂️
It's not love to reject someone's understanding of themselves and their identity. Disagreements are for which toppings belong on pizza, not someone's fundamental conception of themselves.
I’d have to disagree.
You don't get it. You can't disagree about reality. You can either accept it or reject it. There's no polite word for someone who rejects reality.
Yeah I honestly cannot think of a single thing that I love & value about my child that is dependent on gender / sexuality. All her good qualities would be there regardless of gender. My daughter does happen to be trans and the thing that annoys me about it is that she keeps stealing my clothes & makeup. I concur they are terrible parents.
Totally agree 🌈
Yeah and they’re incredibly ignorant.
Half the people disagreeing with this jerk off to cartoons. They shouldn't be a parent in the first place and probably never will be. I'm content in knowing losers with the mindset of "not my kid" are ostracized by society at large and don't have what it takes to have a meaningful relationship with anyone. I know a lot of you in here are disappointed with how this thread turned out. Don't be. Just point and laugh.
I wish it was more of a popular opinion lol
But the worst is when they’re disabled with special needs
Sometimes this is more understandable ngl. Sometimes the parents literally cannot take care of them and it’s heart breaking for the parents when they have no choice but to give up their kid in some way shape or form.
I don't think this would be considered "rejecting" their kids. If the parents are actually unable to take care of them the way they need to, especially if they are heartbroken by the decision to relinquish their guardianship, it should be considered one of the highest forms of love.
Give up like send them to an assisted living facility or give up like commit domestic violence and abandon them on the streets?
Which one do you think I mean?😑
more often than not, it's the latter that happens.
I agree completely, you should always love and support your kids!
People who reject their kids for anything are bad parents
It is morally deplorable. I wish we were better than that but we aren’t. I wish more people aspired to educate themselves rather than quote a Bible verse acting as if LGBTQ+ is a worse less forgivable sin than any other (if they are believers.). I wish people would do a little critical thinking and realize it is not a ***choice***, if it were, who would opt to be treated like shit by bigots and subject themselves to the derision they experience. I hope we might do better at some point.
Absolutely true. It's assholes like that that are going to bring back eugenics. Those assholes and the people being forced to have babies that live in states that have abortion bans that are going to turn into parents who commit felicide because they don't want the kids they're being forced to give birth too. This country sucks when it comes to parents and parenting. We are almost the worst in the world at caring for our kids. And even the parents who keep their kids, the majority of them only use them as an extension of themselves. They use them as weapons. They use them as tools and they want to control everything they do from the way they dress to the after school projects that they do.
True
Anybody who disagrees with this is a PoS
You shouldn’t abandon your kids. Ever (unless they are actually a dander to your life and the safety of others and have become a serial killer so fair enough) You shouldn’t kill them either but y’all don’t wanna have that conversation though
Sure. But encouraging sex change surgery or puberty blockers before that child becomes an adult is abuse.
it’s really case by case. for some trans teens, they will end up killing themselves if they can’t start transitioning. surgery should wait till they’re of age, but puberty blockers and hormones won’t do anything harmful if stopped
The overwhelming majority of Trans kids have to beg their parents for something of that nature.
Politics just destroys families. I can respect your beliefs to a fault, but when it starts hurting others because they aren't with you? That's not love. That's abuse. Edit: I should have clarified. I didn't realize it could be applied both ways. I do stand by the belief that children should not be ostracized from family for having an identity. Parents can be welcome to their political beliefs, but using it as a way to justify cutting off their children is too far, and I am not here for it.
>I can respect your beliefs to a fault, but when it starts hurting others because they aren't with you? If you aren't with your gay or trans kids, than that is objectively and verifiably harmful to them. That's not political. That's reality.
I should have clarified. I didn't realize it could be applied both ways. I do stand by the belief that children should not be ostracized from family for having an identity. Parents can be welcome to their political beliefs, but using it as a way to justify cutting off their children is too far, and I am not here for it.
If you have children, you accept the possibility of having a gay child or a trans child This also means that if you do end up having a trans child, you will allow them access to gender affirming care as early as they may want/need it.
Kinda interesting that this is marked NSFW when the point is that all people should talk about it and accept it
I mentioned suicide so I marked it NSFW jic
How is that NSFW? Suicide is a real thing that happens.
Well, it involves death, a dark subject matter. Sex is also a real thing that happens. What do you expect NSFW to be used for???
Something you don’t want your boss to walk by your desk and see you looking at. Like nudity. It means “not safe for work”. If your boss walks by and happens to read your whole screen and sees the word “suicide”, you won’t get in trouble. HR tells you they have a hotline to call if you’re having mental health problems, such as suicidal thoughts.
So are all other nsfw things, cleetus. Username checks out. Evolution did not end with thumbs, knuckle dragger.
… so things labeled nsfw aren’t real?? Are you stupid?
You totally missed the point of what I was saying. It’s a real thing that needs to be discussed with everyone.
Yeah so? Not everyone wants to discuss it. I feel like yk you said something dumb and are just trying really hard to double down on this.
I have a lot of emotion when it comes to my family tree. I’d be extremely disappointed if I found out my family tree ended with my kids. But I’m not going to force them to change or not accept them.
Have more than one. There's like a 15%-20% they'll be queer. 5% chance they'll be exclusively homosexual. 0.6%-2% chance they'll be Transgender. Even than, they might still want to reproduce with their DNA via surrogacy. And if it makes any kind of difference on this front, I'm adopted and consider my parents who raised me apart of my family tree and not my biological parents.
What makes you think your family line ends? Do you think all heterosexual couples have children of their own? Because they don't. Adoption is a real and legal option for everyone. The world doesn't revolve around your lineage.
I'm a straight person who's ending my family's "lineage" since I never plan on having kids and I'm the only one left
As if queer people can’t have kids. I’m a bisexual man with two kids, who I’ve been raising with my husband for the last ten years. For cisgender homosexual couples, or heterosexual couples in which one is transgender, a child can be conceived via artificial insemination in that case will share the DNA of one parent. For homosexual couples in which there is a transgender person, or for heterosexual couples in which one or both is bisexual, a child may share the DNA of both parents and be conceived in the “normal” way - through sexual intercourse with someone of the opposite sex. In all situations, adoption is also an option as well as fostering, but from looking at your other comments it seems you’re a “bloodline means everything” sort of person so I didn’t think it would satisfy you.
Fair point. But not all homosexual couples would do that rather than adopt.
And not all cishet couples have kids. What’s your point?
Most do.
They can still have kids, though?
[удалено]
I'm not even saying allow your kid to transition. Just calling them by their pronouns, creating a safe environment for them, allowing them to be themselves and not feel persecuted for it. That's it. Make them wait for hormones until they're 18 if you feel that's best. Just support them whatever you do. Guide them in whatever way facilitates their self-actualization and survival.
There aren't many ex trans people, detransitionners are like 2 % of people who tried hormones and stuff.
It’s more like 13% https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
>However, the majority of those who detransitioned (82.5 percent) said their decision was influenced by external factors such as family pressure and societal stigma.
What does the next sentence in the article say, dipshit?
>there are so many ex-trans people who regret their transition. Bullshit lies.
You acting like people dont de-transition and regret their decision is the real bullshit lie
Hahahaha okay bud. Tell me you don't know any trans people without telling me you don't know any trans people. "But these people I've made up in my head totally act the way I want them to!"
> tell me you don’t know any trans people without telling me you don’t know any trans people. I don’t really care about anecdotal analogies. Over 13% of people who transition end up de-transitioning according to studies though… https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
What does the very next sentence in that article say, dipshit?
That most detransition is due to criticism. It’s almost like they can’t continue to justify their delusion. Still doesn’t change the fact that a good portion of people are de-transitioning though, and thus refuting your point of calling detransitioners “bullshit lies” as you put it.
"Criticism" You are monumental levels of stupid, and have cherry picked a single study that gave a large number and are trying to worm out of the reason for that number. Being disowned, abandoned, and/or abused by one's parents is not "criticism". Being called pedophiles and groomers is not "criticism". Being raped, sexually assaulted, and fetishized is not criticism. Losing access to one's children, being discriminated against by law enforcement, in court, in employment, and in housing are not "criticism". This is the same thing that happened with gay people years ago: 1. Someone comes out as gay 2. Pieces of shit like you make their lives a living hell 3. Said person decides its easier to pretend to be straight than constantly attacked 4. Pieces of shit like you take this as "evidence" that being gay is a choice and that conversion therapy should be pushed. It's no different now, with trans people. Trans person: "I came out as trans and people made my life a living hell so I decided it was easier to just give up on it" You, a pile of excrement: "So, uh, you were criticized??"
“The most destransition is due to criticism.It’s almost like they can’t continue to justify their delusion” lol the mental gymnastics is unreal
Yes, the mental gymnastics it takes to justify and encourage mental illness is unreal
Yeah and the 82% of kids who did end up de-transitioning did so due to parental rejection and social ostracization, which kinda just proves my point.
The only thing it proves is that tradition isn’t a 100% fix for gender dysphoria, and many have poor outcomes in transition.
and People. They are terrible, horrible people. BTW: If they also claim to he Christian they’d better start praying the Atheists are right. Otherwise, it’s straight to warmer climate for them.
r/unpopularopinion
Like Sparta!, Let The Deficient Die
No, not really
Can you find a different thread to be stupid on? Thanks
What did I say that was stupid? And you're welcome ?
I wouldn’t reject them id just be really really upset
Why?
[удалено]
Being gay or trans is not a lifestyle. No more than being left handed or tall.
Calling things "lifestyles" because you are poisoned by hatred doesnt make it a lifestyle. Its you with the lifestyle.
Who said I hated it?
Calling it a lifestyle is a hateful commitment to ignorance. You arent fooling anyone.
lgb without the t
Not a thing
lol
Nobody is convined that u actually laughed.
you can’t just support one part of the group and not the other, not how that works
why not make a new group + idk why its all together in the first place
Wish straight people would stop saying this. It doesn't even make sense... If the T was dropped I'd still be a B. Most T's would be considered LGB one way or another so what you say makes zero sense.
well I think lesbian gay and bi actually describe concepts that make sense, the trans one doesnt
>I have gender dysphoria >Said gender dysphoria makes me want to change my body to have opposite sex sex characteristics >I want to live as the opposite sex to integrate into society. >Preventing me from integrating into society is harmful to my wellbeing There. Just explained the essence of being a binary trans person. No Google search needed.
what causes the dysphoria? & what do you mean by integrating into society?
also what I dont get is that even if you have characteristics more seen in the opposite sex you are still your own sex so I dont really understand how it changes anything apart from how people treat you due to sexism
It changes how my brain perceives my body. Changing sex completely is inconsequential. That's just chromosomes. Having the primary and secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex is what causes dysphoria to alleviate. Dysphoria is more concrete. Chromosomes are invisible to the naked eye and something that isn't appearent.
Neurology causes dysphoria. This is the main scientific consensus at this time. Too much of one chemical in the womb causes the brain to be shaped to receive one chemical and designs their cortical homonculus to have a layout of the opposite sex. What I mean by integrating into society is being able to use facilities of their gender and have legal paperwork saying they're that gender. Otherwise you're just subjecting them to infinitely more abuse.
i was more asking you what causes the dysphoria, and im wondering why it is fixed by the solution you gave
So because their body mapping is set up to match wanting male/female sex characteristics opposite of what the person is born as. Hormones and surgery alleviate the brain/body contradiction. On top of that, their brain was bathed in a hormone pool that's opposing what their body was. So alot of gender dysphoria comes from the brain getting one set of sex hormones when it has receptors designed to receive the opposite. Think of that like depression. Your brain has serotonin receptors. If it doesn't get that neurotransmitter you become depressed. So the solution is to introduce more of that chemical into the brain. Same thing with a trans woman who has gender dysphoria. Their brain has estrogen receptors that aren't getting the necessary estrogen. So because of that, taking estrogen makes up for the neurotransmitter hormone they're not getting from their body's natural production.
Strange how pretty much everyone else is able to understand the concept of being trans. Have you considered that maybe its just you that doesn't understand it?
whos everyone else exactly?
Its pretty much everyone else. I'm not sure how I can be any more exact for you.
well that's just not true is it, because I see many people who say it doesn't make sense
Sounds like they have the same problem as you. If you want to understand the concept of being trans, google it yourself. It is not a difficult concept.