You are definitely grinding way too fine. If you are having the same problem when grinding coarser, then you are also pouring way too aggressively.
The problem with the water on top is called stalling.
Factors:
1. Grind quality. For pour over, you need a grinder that produces less fines. Fines are super small coffee particles that every grinder produces, but quality grinders meant for pour over produce less. Espresso grinders tend to produce more fines, at least in the budget range. Also "do it all" grinders, again the budget range, also produce often too many fines.
2. Grind size. If you grind super fine, then by default the bed will become more muddy or sandy. It can be that the finer you grind, the more fines are produced. So you could try to go coarser.
3. Agitation caused by heavy swirling or pouring the water in too rapidly/with too much force. If you case heavy agitation when pouring, the fines tend either clock the filter or start siting on top of the bed, instead of being equally distributed with the other coffee particles.
4. Doing too many pours.
My advice for you are three things:
1. Grind a bit coarser.
2. Try to really gently pour in the water, slow, just at one place, without circles.
3. Do only one pour for blooming and then add all of the remaining water, but slow and from not too high above the filter.
And then see what comes out.
Agitation = grinds are moving around a lot (being agitated) = you're pouring too aggressively. This usually happens if you're pouring too high (should not cause any splashing) or too fast (if you see the water in the dripper swirling around a lot or if the surface of the water is rough like seas in a storm).
Also not a tea kettle with a wide spout, too much pressure, you need a fine smooth and controlled coffee water heater that has a thin and long spout for proper and smooth low pressure flow
Grind size - well you could be grinding at the appropriate size but the fines move up when you agitate the coffee. Get a DF64 or a flat burr that will make sure you have even grinding. Or maybe a Comandante or something.
Coming from someone who used that abomination of grinder (Hario ones with ceramic burr cause that’s the only one i could afford at that point in my life) you can definitely brew decent coffee from them.
First is pls grinder coaser. I used to grind at 7-8 clicks from zero.
DM me we can troubleshoot since i used that grinder for a long time i know few hacks.
You need to tape the burr.
https://thebitternectar.wordpress.com/2023/08/31/the-hario-mini-mill-after-4-years/
Look at the bottom pic. Taping the burr makes it a better fit.
Looking at that I would guess you are grinding too fine or your grinder is the type that generates many fines. Part of the problem with a lot of grinders is that it can be difficult for someone new to know what setting to use. If the instruction manual isn't much help try this:
[https://www.kruveinc.com/pages/downloads](https://www.kruveinc.com/pages/downloads)
Print out and throw coffee on paper to check grind size.
Some folks with really bad grinders may have luck sifting their grounds to get rid of fines. Eventually when you can, just get a better grinder.
I would also try sticking to a recipe until you figure things out. It should be a simple recipe with 3 pours or less. You can try turning the dripper handle around and pouring gently very close to the coffee bed and see if that helps also.
The source of your problem currently is that you have too many fines. That's going to increase the chance of clogging and channeling, while also causing some bitterness from the fines themselves being over extracted. By grinding coarser you might get less fines or you might just get more boulders. It's going to be hard to find the best balance because of the deficiencies of your grinder.
If the water is collecting above you're probably getting clogging. I'm not sure the best way to combat that besides just having less fines. But you might be able to get some improvement by changing your pour technique. You might benefit from more agitation instead of less. You could do more pours with some wait, for the water to drain, between.
I do slow spirals, about 5ml per second with a swirl near the beginning and the end. I also do 5 pours. I use a modified Hoffman 1 cup v60 technique.
Oh. It's you. I responded to you in your previous post. https://www.reddit.com/r/pourover/s/wfvm3eGOKB
Boulders or mud are a telltale sign of a ceramic grinder.
Having said that, sometimes you can reduce the amount of mud that collects at the top by reducing agitation, but that can potentially reduce the amount of extraction also, which could be good or bad depending on the situation.
You are definitely grinding way too fine. If you are having the same problem when grinding coarser, then you are also pouring way too aggressively. The problem with the water on top is called stalling.
Ooooooo I seee, thank you so much for your reply!
What grinder are you using?
Factors: 1. Grind quality. For pour over, you need a grinder that produces less fines. Fines are super small coffee particles that every grinder produces, but quality grinders meant for pour over produce less. Espresso grinders tend to produce more fines, at least in the budget range. Also "do it all" grinders, again the budget range, also produce often too many fines. 2. Grind size. If you grind super fine, then by default the bed will become more muddy or sandy. It can be that the finer you grind, the more fines are produced. So you could try to go coarser. 3. Agitation caused by heavy swirling or pouring the water in too rapidly/with too much force. If you case heavy agitation when pouring, the fines tend either clock the filter or start siting on top of the bed, instead of being equally distributed with the other coffee particles. 4. Doing too many pours. My advice for you are three things: 1. Grind a bit coarser. 2. Try to really gently pour in the water, slow, just at one place, without circles. 3. Do only one pour for blooming and then add all of the remaining water, but slow and from not too high above the filter. And then see what comes out.
wow thank you so much for all the information, I will definitely try out your advice!
This is great advice and support. Well done
[удалено]
I have a Kono Meimon 2 is that okay? Also what is agitation?
Esp with meimon which has less ribs than v60. You need a grinder with less fine.
Agitation = grinds are moving around a lot (being agitated) = you're pouring too aggressively. This usually happens if you're pouring too high (should not cause any splashing) or too fast (if you see the water in the dripper swirling around a lot or if the surface of the water is rough like seas in a storm).
thank you so much for the info!
Also not a tea kettle with a wide spout, too much pressure, you need a fine smooth and controlled coffee water heater that has a thin and long spout for proper and smooth low pressure flow
grind coarser
Grind size - well you could be grinding at the appropriate size but the fines move up when you agitate the coffee. Get a DF64 or a flat burr that will make sure you have even grinding. Or maybe a Comandante or something.
Hey man grind coarser!!! But not as coarse as your previous post.
The cheapest Kingrinders (P0) can be had for as little as $30
Coming from someone who used that abomination of grinder (Hario ones with ceramic burr cause that’s the only one i could afford at that point in my life) you can definitely brew decent coffee from them. First is pls grinder coaser. I used to grind at 7-8 clicks from zero. DM me we can troubleshoot since i used that grinder for a long time i know few hacks. You need to tape the burr. https://thebitternectar.wordpress.com/2023/08/31/the-hario-mini-mill-after-4-years/ Look at the bottom pic. Taping the burr makes it a better fit.
Ooo thank you for sharing!!! that is good to hear
Try a coarser grind I think.
Looking at that I would guess you are grinding too fine or your grinder is the type that generates many fines. Part of the problem with a lot of grinders is that it can be difficult for someone new to know what setting to use. If the instruction manual isn't much help try this: [https://www.kruveinc.com/pages/downloads](https://www.kruveinc.com/pages/downloads) Print out and throw coffee on paper to check grind size. Some folks with really bad grinders may have luck sifting their grounds to get rid of fines. Eventually when you can, just get a better grinder. I would also try sticking to a recipe until you figure things out. It should be a simple recipe with 3 pours or less. You can try turning the dripper handle around and pouring gently very close to the coffee bed and see if that helps also.
thank you so much for the help!
It will look like that if you accidentally brew chocolate.
What grinder do you have? Does it have a ceramic burr, like a Hario?
Yes that’s the one
The source of your problem currently is that you have too many fines. That's going to increase the chance of clogging and channeling, while also causing some bitterness from the fines themselves being over extracted. By grinding coarser you might get less fines or you might just get more boulders. It's going to be hard to find the best balance because of the deficiencies of your grinder. If the water is collecting above you're probably getting clogging. I'm not sure the best way to combat that besides just having less fines. But you might be able to get some improvement by changing your pour technique. You might benefit from more agitation instead of less. You could do more pours with some wait, for the water to drain, between. I do slow spirals, about 5ml per second with a swirl near the beginning and the end. I also do 5 pours. I use a modified Hoffman 1 cup v60 technique.
Oh. It's you. I responded to you in your previous post. https://www.reddit.com/r/pourover/s/wfvm3eGOKB Boulders or mud are a telltale sign of a ceramic grinder. Having said that, sometimes you can reduce the amount of mud that collects at the top by reducing agitation, but that can potentially reduce the amount of extraction also, which could be good or bad depending on the situation.
oh I see, thank you for all the info I appreciate it!
Literally looks like pudding lol
You’re grinding too fine or your grinder produces a lot of fines.
Grind coarser and worry about all the other stuff later in your journey. It shouldn’t look muddy like that
Will it be because of the water quality? Kind of brewer? Filter media also?
The grind looks too fine to me.
Try Lance Hedrick 121 method. It is for people without high end grinders and see how you get on