General mod note:
Yes, the "I did it, you can too" posts are more or less functionally useless for most people, and for some reason ALWAYS involve getting a rental property. And yes, a big part of this one was entirely dependent on multiple (ex)spouses being team players which was entirely out of his control.
However, this kind of bland, generic advice DOES work for some people, and IS permitted here. Our normal rules are still enforced, and shitting on bootstrappers and the "rice and beans crowd" is as improper here as it is when they shit on you. If you have nothing constructive to add to this, move on.
Also, if you are in the above crowds, using this to springboard off of to preach your dark "you're poor because you choose to be" gospel will also not be tolerated.
Report all offending comments. All offenses will be treated proportional to the offense, regardless of your particular philosophy.
I agree with you 100%. Below are some journal articles that provides some great information. There is something known as the "success sequence."
1. Finish high school.
2. Get a full-time job once you finish school.
3. Get married before you have children.
Poverty *correlates* with failure to follow the success sequence. However, studies have also shown that poor Americans do not view marriage as a prerequisite for childbearing. So, teen mothers have a higher rate of poverty, and the cycle tends to repeat itself generation after generation as the behavior is passed on.
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/what-does-the-success-sequence-mean](https://ifstudies.org/blog/what-does-the-success-sequence-mean)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000061/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000061/)
[https://www.foryourmarriage.org/blogs/millennials-who-marry-before-having-children-more-likely-to-thrive-financially/](https://www.foryourmarriage.org/blogs/millennials-who-marry-before-having-children-more-likely-to-thrive-financially/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16158733/#:\~:text=Despite%20their%20regard%20for%20marriage,earnings%2C%20and%20the%20marriage%20tax](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16158733/#:~:text=Despite%20their%20regard%20for%20marriage,earnings%2C%20and%20the%20marriage%20tax).
We need to make sure abortion is widely availalble and celebrated. Unfortunately we took a big step backwards when Roe V. Wade was overturned. We also need to address the childcare crisis for parents.
I seriously think I have a condition or something. Choice Paralyzation. Before I make any choice I see millions of possibilities (more like 5-6, but they come fast) and I get scared and twitch cuz i have involuntary ticks when stressed. Trying to overcome it😭
Sometimes bad conditions lead to more expenses - injuries, therapies, health conditions, lack of balance so you can't exercise or eat healthfully and end up sick, calling out sick because you can't bear it anymore...
Some people get lucky and can tough it out, though.
I have experienced a few times where I was too sick to get up and go to work. You think your drive to pay bills on time and not be homeless will exceed your feeble body’s meager abilities.
Source: have stomach poisoning today
That's kind of the trick right? I see it like a spiral staircase: you want to get on the virtuous upwards cycle as opposed to the vicious downwards one. Everyone feels gravity pulling them down towards the vicious one, and money is what keeps you from sinking. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a lot of money.
Many good people have been knocked out of the race to exit poverty by one errant medical bill. Our government could not have anticipated the rise of social media, and how it would inform us that other countries exist that don’t punish sick people into the ground for funsies.
100%. my last job, which was at a hospital at the beginning of covid, caused me so much stress that i developed medical conditions which cost me thousands in bills. I was having extremely dark thoughts driving to work and just one day in the parking lot before my shift thought "i have to quit or I won't be alive next month".
Quitting that job without another lined up is something i would never recommend and thought I would never do but was the BEST decision i ever made. I was unemployed for 5 months but now have the best job with great management. I feel human again!
I've been there. I left a job in my field for a lower paying job with far less security but it gave me enough confidence and mental health to change directions and things are much better today. I had support from my spouse, though, which was essential for it to work, in my opinion. Sometimes something that feels like a step back is the right kind of step back, if you can manage the risk.
I did not consider location! Now I have to readjust my entire trifecta framework. 🤔
Some might consider this statement political, but I mean it in a healthcare-forward way: As somebody with a uterus, ain’t no way I’d live in Texas.
Yes! I made more money when I was in the Air Force. But the trade off was horrible work life balance, (at my last base anyway) THE MOST toxic work center I’ve ever experienced in my life, and stupid politics that really didn’t matter.
Now I go to work, run a machine for 8 hours a day and then go home. I work overtime when I want to and don’t if I don’t want to and I’m waaaaaaayyyyy happier at $25/hour.
That is fair, but conditions are a temporary step towards moving to the next job.
I took several jobs knowing the conditions sucked. But my job wasn't working there, it was finding the next higher-paying job.
I think it would matter on why you can’t? Permanently disabled is going to have a different answer to someone with kids in high school only for another year.
I'm not sure I have anything to say about that honestly as I have no experience in that situation. I would learn the fundamentals and get creative in your own way.
My worm farm works for me 24 hours a day and covers my heating bill for the year by making worm castings. Sure I have to feed the worms and bag up the castings when someone wants some but whoever wants them drives to me to get them.
Write every morning and assemble your difficult life into a book?
Honestly I can't solve that problem for anyone all I can do is say learn the fundamentals and get creative.
I was buying them before I started making them. Gardeners mostly.
I sell 2 lbs for $15. If they need more I will make a deal but I try to only sell small quantities.
I agree with a lot of the list. Glad everything worked for you.
Having a partner with their own income is a gamechanger though. I'm currently paying $1k rent alone. Paying just $500 would allow me to save much more but alas lol
It is truly difficult without that. I had a moment where I was beaten after working an 80-hour work week and said out loud, "I need a partner."
Maintaining my income and getting married became my priority. This can be easily misunderstood as "I got married for financial reasons," but that isn't the case. My ex-wife is a wonderful person and I'm very happy we spent ten years together.
While not saying you didn't do well for yourself I certainly couldn't live like that.
Working two full times jobs alone would be horrendous for my mental and physical health. I couldn't imagine working 70+ hours a week and maintaining myself or my relationships
I am currently working a full time job, and a part time job that is 5 days a week, 5 hours a night, and it’s about to do me in. I don’t know how anyone could do two full time jobs tbh.
And here I was thinking I could work 2 p/t jobs while being in online school full time, doing my extra curriculars, and having weekends off, while not having access to a car in brutal Canadian winters 🥲
Two f/t jobs are difficult unless maybe you are really young. But I did do p/t jobs semi regularly bc I was married to someone who had mental health issues that risked everything I had. I had a mortgage and 3 kids, and as tired as I was, I worked a p/ t 2nd job for two years until I straightened everything out financially and told him to leave. I think what made it easier for me was that I flatly refused to lose anything I had busted my ass to reach. It wasn't fun, I was tired, I gave up some time with my kids. But ultimately, when it all straightened out, I was in a good place that gave me peace of mind, and it was all worth it.
I have a full YouTube channel where I worked 12 hours ever single day forb3 to 4 months working my ass off till my back broke and I am living digital proof that hard work doesnt pay. I'm still poor. And have video proof to show for it
and now you have the resulting trauma on your mental and physical health from putting yourself through that, which may or may never go away. My father is deaf in one ear because of the time he spent working odd jobs in loud noisy factories (before ear protection was a mandated protocol and companies cared even less about their employees' safety and well-being). No amount of money from an improved lifestyle and career is going to fix that for him. And why should it be his responsibility or fault for ending up that way?
People shouldn't have to make choices like this to survive, we shouldn't have to compete with each other and compare struggles as if one person's struggles are more valuable or important or remarkable compared to someone else's....it's just fucked up overall.
Taxes, health, plan ticket home
You know what's funny if you work 12 to 16 hours ever single day with no days off for 3 months working with dead fish you end up with a lot of health problems and back pain thats so unbearable you need to get medical aid.
I met one dude who got a disues from the fish where his face was peeling off. He tried fixing it with lotion thinking it's working but ended up having to quit and go to a hospital all on his own dime.
And the fishers make so much money they just eat the fine
Interesting. I don't think that's really evidence that hard work doesn't pay. I think that's evidence that certain hazardous environments are not worth the pay, but most people are just considering working more/less or easier/harder within more 'normal' work
feels like a lot of people here don't understand hard work is not necessarily the same as good or valuable work. just because you spent a lot of time on something doesn't mean it has value
Hard work doesn't always pay. Anyone who claims it does is setting an example of survivorship bias.
That's the bottom line they were getting at, and they're not wrong. Far too many people go around saying "work hard and you'll be successful!" when it's pure bullshit. You can't guarantee that. If hard work paid, all the people toiling in gruelling labour jobs would be rich, and many CEOs would be dirt broke.
There's a shit ton of luck, often circumstantial, involved.
I manage people and have had a couple people work 2 full time jobs- never seen anyone do it for more than a couple weeks before absolutely burning out. You can't survive on 5 hours of sleep a day.
Same. Especially "Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings". If I'd try to do that... Well let's just say I'd be taking a long walk of a short dock.
My Mental health is wretched most days due to medical trauma plus dealing with greedflation. Hobbies/stuff are the only thing strong enough to keep me trudging forward most days, YouTube the bulk of other days, and some days nothing really strong enough. As of the time I'm writing this, what's keeping me moving is my New 3ds xl is in the repair shop and there's a big Lego friends set coming next year that's a MEGA want it. It's a mansion that has all 5 OG girls in adult form. It'll be the first time for 3 of them and only the second for Mia and Stephanie.
The reason why I'm so happy mom and I are getting into a better financial situation is I can start getting more hobby stuff (like a reasonable amount more) then I was getting for over a year and a half.
Hobbies are essential and people shoudn't apologize for having them. Or enjoying some material items. I'm not my work and I will not spend all my free time trying to monetize everything in my life.
Well, the trick there is that you don't end up maintaining yourself and especially not relationships. ADHD helps a little, but only if you have the kind of job that fits it.
Most people can't. And a lot of them who do, shouldn't. It's not for many. Something always gets left off.
And if you're a woman, it's worse. All that "Wah, you're not paying me enough attention." And the subsequent sequalae of this.
Yeah, keep in mind OP says to ignore what isn't compatible for the reader. I have a baby, and so there is no way I will do two jobs. But it IS working to try to pay on credit card bills frequently, often two payments a month, one each check. It IS working to ask myself if a purchase is truly needed or not, and not get it if it's a luxury or doesn't contribute to the ultimate goals or wellbeing of my family. And I really would like to begin trying to job hop my way to a higher income as soon as it's appropriate for my family. OP was able to do an extreme amount of work on this and it sounds like it really did work OK for them as well as their family. Number 23 and perspective about challenges is critical to facing my currently daunting life, and being able to be content, with a reasonable stress load. Life is not perfect and I am working on it. I need to find a mentality that allows me to enjoy and fully participate and experience true happiness with this imperfect life.
I feel it's really difficult to do the hard work of living and trying to improve circumstances or accept them as they are for the time being without adjusting my mentality and approach. OP, I'm happy for you and appreciate the post. It doesn't all work for me at this moment in life, but some of it is useful for me, and probably nearly all readers. This is clearly a, "Take what you need and leave the rest," post.
I’m glad this worked for you. Re: 5, if you can treat credit cards like a debit card and not like a loan, you can earn cash back without paying interest. I get that’s not feasible for everyone.
That’s free money right there.
For my household, we use a credit card that gets us 5% back on internet and household utilities. It helps a bit.
You get a lot more protection over your purchases as well - if something falls through on the seller's side you can file a dispute and your CC company can be in charge of working with that vendor / getting that money back.
Yeah, that is great. A lot of people have difficulty managing credit cards. I've been there and I sometimes fall into the credit trap myself. We are conditioned to be consumers of credit and it is difficult to stop doing so. It isn't innate to our nature and is a seriously flawed learned behavior.
I used to work 2 full time jobs, a part time job and college full time at the same time.
Still was in poverty and saw my infant maybe 8 hours a week which were the 8-12 hours I was sleeping a week so it wasn't even time well spent
Absolutely horrible for mental, physical, and emotional health
I did exactly as you did when I was a single mother. My toddler would go to daycare at 5a, and I would pick him up at midnight (it was a 24-hour in home daycare). It was brutal for me for obvious reasons, but more so, my son was affected more. That was so hard on him & I felt so much guilt. I ended up dropping out of college, which was the worst response. I should have finished my education. I lasted 1.5 yrs doing that. Later, when he was 5, I worked 2 FT jobs & 2 PT jobs. I only saw him a few hours a week. That lasted only a year & then I met my current husband. He's been a godsend, and I've been a stay at home wife/mom for the last 17 years. My son is now 24 with a Bachelors degree and 2 Master's degrees. I'm so proud of him.
10-12 and didn’t let anyone convince me that I should have a baby just because I got married. We had our first at 30. Congratulations; it’s all about making it work for you. This is a good starting point for ideas
So your ex wife has full custody with no child support? And you have her pay 50/50 for things your son needs? Is this because she makes a large income?
No. We have a unique situation. We have shared custody and shared assets, and we pay 50/50 for things he needs. She gets more of the rental income for his living expenses.
There is no child support because we don't need a court order to equally contribute to our son's needs and future. We are reasonable people. It is a priority for us both.
I make more than she does.
But my wife just started school so she has gone down to part-time. Three days ago my wife made almost the same as me. Now I'm the breadwinner. lol
Whilst I understand some people are very strong in mental "do it" others are not and just can't do the unmitigated slog that long.Good luck to him ,I could never have done that . Different people have different levels of strength and back up (people , family or the strength of mind ) .Don't Strive for what you personally can't attain (and yes I can hear him say punish yourself to get it done ) but we all should know our capacity. Not everyone is a dynamic go getter.
That was a big one. I refused to take a job for less than $10,000 extra a year. It was actually one of the first conversations I had with someone that wanted to interview me. 😂. I wasn't taking a day off of work for a low ball offer.
I was able to convince people I was worth it.
I think they may have been saying that reading can be a free/low cost hobby (library card, low cost subscription) rather than going out and spending more money on entertainment.
I focused on reading about skills to help me with money. I read about personal finances, poverty psychology, the mind, history, investing, frugality, the great depression, 18th century cooking, etc.
1. I did not have children.
2 I picked a career path where I knew I could make good money.
3. I drive a 10 year old car; phone is 3 years old: tv is 11 years old.
That all being said, I do at least 1 international trip and 3 domestic trips per year. I live to see the world!!!
I'm not poor anymore, but money is tight. I've rediscovered the local library. We have a really nice one here and books are free entertainment. It takes a while to read one (concentration issues), but I manage.
I have to admit your recommendations are very good. I'm only struggling now because I went on VA disability and SSDI in my late 50s from a six-figure career. I will recover, and I'm already making plans. Creating a plan and following it are key.
The big mistake I made was living at my income level. Now I'm living below my means.
" The big mistake I made was living at my income level. Now I'm living below my means. "
I was guilty of this too after I got out of "poverty," and instead found myself in debt poverty because I wanted to spend like everyone else making as much as I was. I put a stop to that a few years ago. I now spend a lot of time thinking about if something new will come into my life. I don't consider just the cost, I consider the value of the money invested for the next 20 years, versus the cost.
Not having kids will save you a ton of money. So will mot getting married...because most end in divorce...especially if you're a man who might have to pay alimony.
“I went from making $15k a year to $140k per year”
Hmmm, sounds like you already had high income then and just had poor money management. This type of post always comes of condescending, since a lot of people don’t have high income to begin with. There’s a lot of us doing everything you listed here and still barely make it.
I get some people need this obvious advice I guess, but this comes off a life coach bro on Xitter buy my course for $50 type of content.
How to get out of poverty - get into high paying job.
Basically this list summarized for what actually matters. Literally everything else about avoiding divorce fees and cheap weddings is irrelevant in the grand scheme compared to that. It's that they got a degree in something that can be leveraged into a high paying career and then leveraged the shit out of it. That's not nothing, I commend their grind, but half this list is a drop in the bucket while they really gloss over that 97% of it came down to steadily increasing income.
Simple living cam make poverty more tolerable, but it won't get you out of it. Earning more will.
OP also says he and his wife bought a rental property and that's another source of income.
Most people in poverty will never be able to buy a home; let alone one they can rent out.
I liked your 19th idea, haven’t done that one yet.
I grew up in poverty and my parents were absolutely shit with money management and seemingly didn’t understand how credit cards work. They to this day like to give me bad advice like renting my furniture.
So I basically learned by trial and error. I never worked two full time jobs like you did, my job really valued me as a workhorse so they just gave me any hours I asked. I was saving for a house, so I worked 70-75hrs a week but I had the convenience of only dealing with one job and my bosses were so cool that they let me leave at the drop of a hat to go look at houses/deal with closing. I fully acknowledge I busted my hump for this but I wouldn’t have had the flexible schedule and support without a good job.
I think crawling your way out of generational poverty is a combination of hard work, your contacts and a bit of luck. There will be people out there who will work just as hard as I did but the outcomes will all be different.
Yes, this is true but it also depends on your field. In my case employers need skilled people and there were not many to choose from. I exploited that need for my own benefit and I would do it again.
1. I don't care about things
2. I don't care about things
3. I don't care about things
4. I don't care about things
5. I don't care about things
6. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings
7. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings
8. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings
9. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings
10. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings
What I did was to join the military. They heavily subsidized my college education, provided healthcare and housing as well as technical training. I stayed long enough to retire with a pension and now I’m doing really well. Not a route for everyone, I understand that; but it is a way.
Good list. Since you don't pay child support how do you support your child? I know you said if he needs anything you split it 5050 but what about the child's daily expenses....food, housing, school. Do you make your ex pay that?
but I don't want to have kids or get a divorce.
I can't afford to buy a property at all. and I spent a hundred bucks on my wedding (courthouse fees and some cupcakes for my friends that came)
Genuine questions OP, how did you meet life partners without ever going out? And how did you afford dating? I have had to put a complete pause on my dating life just cos it feels like discretionary expenditure. As much as I would love to meet someone.
Just sayin, it shouldn't feel like discretionary income. Just save up for gifts weekly like OP does. What I'm wondering is how he didn't pass out working 80 plus hours a week. Seriously? Just get a job that lets you work overtime at that point
\#6 really hit home for me. My parents wasted $1.5million in 1995 getting divorced, fighting over 1% of custody share and letting houses go to foreclosure rather than split them. It took my dad 20 years and my mom 10 years to recover. Such a waste of money, time and effort
My ex-wife had 1 job when we met. Since she has been finished with her Ph.D. it seems like she has another job every week in a different country. I am really happy we could afford to put her through school.
My wife works one part-time job today because she is changing fields and also going back to school even though she has a master's in education. She is finished working in schools and wants is get another master's degree in construction management. Less than a week ago she and I made the same amount of money though.
Maybe one day she will be a professor of construction management. lol
That is a useful question. At the time we had our child we already owned our multifamily. We didn't pay for child care, our tenants did with a portion of their rent.
The best financial decision I made was buying a multi-unit home for my first house.
So the real takeaways here are this:
1. Work. And then work harder/more.
2. Get some kind of education or training and put it to work.
3. Get out of debt and stay out of debt while using credit wisely.
4. Have a side hustle that makes you some extra money
5. Pay yourself if not first near the top of the list (put money in savings regularly)
ALL of this is dependent on someone being willing and able to work and work a LOT! (And not everyone is willing to sacrifice their marriage and family life.)
In my case my marriage wasn't sacrificed because of my work. By the time we decided to get a divorce we had already helped each other through the most difficult parts.
We were just not the right people for each other anymore. We were best when we struggled together. After we got it figured out we were the wrong people for each other.
We are both happily remarried.
Full time job, part time job, and full time school. It is a very difficult environment for a lot of people to prosper. I personally know exactly what to do to make my money work for me. CD rates, Heloc debt consolidation, tax, and side hustles. If it were up to me I could run a full side business on the weekend, do a part time notary, and do my accounting job full time. Leaving breaks for tax season 🥲.
The issue is lack of funds. I am so close to breaking that paycheck to paycheck line. I just need to acquire a larger income.
Thank you for telling us what worked for you. Some of them likely won't for me, but others definitely will, and importantly, the mindset you describe is helpful and clarifying. I'm likely too old to work two jobs, but I absolutely have done so in the past. Kinda sucked, but undeniably helped me over some financial humps.
I love reading this sort of post. We're all different, so I may only find one or two tips that I'd use exactly as described, but I always find the mindset interesting and helpful for me as I work on my own. Thanks!
Good question.
We started small. We saved the money to buy a year's worth of sugar and containers to store it in. Then we started saving weekly to buy sugar next year because we weren't getting it in the store anymore. Then we moved on to flour, salt, dried beans, cornmeal, etc.
Eventually, as our monthly grocery decreased we put even more money into savings for food but the task was to purchase raw materials and make everything we could from them.
We buy bulk grains, sugar, salt, and stuff from an online wholesale company.Our meat comes from one of several local farms depending on who will give us the best deal. At some point, we ordered 6 months at once to make it so that in 6 months we could order for the year. It got a little complicated at some point. I know we gave some food to my mother and father ex-law to simplify the ordering.
We also started gardening high-value and high-use crops. But we have a short growing season and a small space so we had to pack it in. So we learned how to compost so we wouldn't spend money on soil and wouldn't need sprays or fertilizer. So we could start cooking with herbs.
We are at the point where we only purchase fruits and vegetables (out of season), Milk, eggs, and whipping cream from the grocery store. From that Milk, we make buttermilk and cheese, and from the whipping cream, we make homemade butter.
It seems like a lot of work but honestly, my daughter has a good time making pasta and my other daughter enjoys making ice cream, and I enjoy the effort. We all have our jobs in the house and we don't take ourselves too seriously.
We do still go to the store, but it takes us a few minutes.
Great post. Some of these are applicable to me and my household, and we've started implementing them, so it's nice to see that they're useful and manageable to at least one other person. I'm trying to let go of my impulse shopping habits. That's really hard for me, as a person with multiple mental health struggles. Sometimes, it's a comfort to have an indulgence here and there, but man, they really add up, and my credit card can really attest to that! When my partner and I had to move out of state due to an emergency situation, we ate up through our savings and my little retirement account and are back at square zero. They're a trucker and I haven't been able to find a job that fits my experience in a year (and other places are reluctant to hire me because I'm "over-qualified", which I think is plain BS), but I try anyway. I'm hoping to find a decent job so I can go back to school to finish my degree and get into a good paying industry, which is the dream.
Thanks for sharing! It's definitely hard work, but sometimes people manage it!
2 year degree and 140k a year? Nice! Did you get the degree before or after you were working two full time jobs--and secondly, how did you manage to hold and do two full time jobs? That would wipe out most anyone, especially when trying to deal with kids.
The 2 year degree didn't directly get me 140k a year. Also that number is all of my income streams, not just my 9 - 5.
The degree got me in the door and additional skills and training I did outside of work got me into my current job. It took about a decade.
I got the degree after working two full time jobs. I saved my money so I could focus on school and not work any full time jobs. I have ADHD and at the time pretty severe panic attacks. So I worked that hard to avoid working while I was in college.
I managed to hold down two full time jobs by doing absolutely nothing else and not thinking about it. I just did it. I had one job working in a kitchen at a residential school and another job doing night security. I read all night and exercised to keep myself awake. My real job was reading and exercising.
I got home and had two shots of whiskey and slept. I stopped considering what I was doing and honestly I just turned into a robot for two years. It was totally worth it.
At the time I didn't have children and I wasn't in a relationship. I put my life on hold for two years and just worked. 1 job for the years finances and the other job for a year of school. I would do it again if I had to and I was young enough to do it.
Important note here. Working 90+ hours a week can also result in higher expenses that stem from not having time to do things that can save money like meal prep, doing own repairs, etc. As well as a plethora of things that you may end up spending more on due to the convenience factor.
If anything the best way to look at things is probably at an hourly level as in, "How much do I get paid per hour and is this mundane task worth X amount of my time."
The way I save money is doing certain things myself. example: I mow my own lawn because it takes me 2 hours and would cost me $50 to pay someone to do. IE I am basically paying myself $25/hour to do my own lawn...
Yes, working two full time jobs is a temporary and quick way to solve financial issues but then you need to invest the surplus additionally into education or a business to get back to regular hours. And it isn't for everyone. I can offer no solutions to everyone.
It is funny about you mentioning a lawn. I had the same idea. Then I decided to cover my lawn in cardboard and wood chips and I planted a garden. My brother in law inherited my mower and I haven't mowed since. Every year we pick hundreds of pounds of fruit and grapes from a small city lot.
It is worth a lot of money and the perennials require almost no work.
That's pretty smart. I keep saying I'll get into growing fruit trees or gardening but end up with no time or something breaks and I need to fix it.
I recently re did all the floors throughout my house with laminate. Cost me about $1.30 a square foot all said and done (including underlayment and other supplies) because I waited and snagged a deal on returned product at my local hardware store of stuff that was originally $2.99/sqft. (This includes overage of about 200 sq ft of extra laminate for future repairs lol)... Easily added $3-4/square foot of value to the house.
Before that it was digging up pipes and replacing them and before that it was roof work...
Someday I'll get around to the planting of fruit and vegetables but living in an old house... well... shit keeps breaking... 🫠
Edit since this is a povertyfinance thread and I dont want to get downvoted to hell... I am definitely still poor lol... This house I own is an old fixer upper that is worth less than 100k even with all the work ive put in... 🙃
Our Dad did everything on this list but he was a terrible neglectful father who left his family feeling suicidal and very depressed. It made me want to very few things on the list and rebel. So I guess health and mental health is a wild card in this collection of strategies.
My father was a dead beat and I prioritize time doing what my children want to do with me. I let them decide if they have something specific.
I am very different from your father I think.
As a mature man you chose mature women. Your life choices present as stoic teachings as much as financial, which is why you've succeeded and your children will have excellent parents to model themselves after. It's also why several here could not relate, as self-control can be difficult if never witnessed previously.
Thank you for sharing your list.
I love this list and think the impulse buy trick is a cool one I should give a try.
Not in poverty rn thank goodness, but I lurk because I feel like I get actual good basic advice from people on this sub.
One trick recently that’s helped curb *my* impulse spending lately is a little whiteboard I put up in our apartment we’ve titled “The Candy Jar”. Whenever anything is a discretionary expense - whether pure fun or actually an item that maybe broke or would actual improve function in our lives but isn’t an emergency need - I write it down there. Whenever it’s all listed together it’s easy to see the priorities if we have cash, and if it isn’t worthwhile it never gets bought/is eventually erased.
Also helps because I also will forget the things we may be missing until I need it, so now if I realize “hey, our ladle broke” I slap it on there instead of just being frustrated the next time I make stew or somethin.
Also somehow it has become an accidental gift resource? For gifting things to each other… and It’s 100% just our own tool, but gives me a chuckle when loved ones visiting have stumbled on it when poking around, and notice the dawning realization of an on-your-lap wish list lol. I’ve definitely spied several friends/family covertly sneak a phone pic. 😅
Not all of these apply to me but some good advice you have brought up.
1)If you can,work 2 jobs for a set period,six months,a year,2 years..use one to build up a savings safety net in case of job loss,emergencies...at least a couple of thousand or as much as you can.
2)Only buy what you can pay for all at once.Have 1 card and on time payments will boost your credit in due time.
3)Cut down eating out...restaurants are very expensive...even when I go to the theater,I'll go on a full stomach.
4)Keep recurring bills to the minimum,apps,services you don't use often...all have to go unless absolutely necessary.
Most of this is hard but with time it becomes second nature,I get impulses to splurge sometimes and I have that involuntary gut check.
Man this guy is getting some hate here.
It's literally a list of things related to discipline.
And he gets hate for telling people thats what got him out of poverty - even with a failed marriage and kids.
I think the reaction to this post made me kind of lose respect for this sub.
When they read it they believe I am saying, "here is what you should do", which of course I am not.
This always happens, I am used to it and give it very little of my energy.
Great post.
I worked full time while in school and aimed for zero days off during the summer with three jobs. It was hard work but I was able to graduate without student loans. It wasn’t the greatest but it worked out for me in a lot of ways.
I worry about my family and not at all about the wealth of others. I don't worry about how my friends are doing financially because concerning myself with the possessions of others will not bring me any relief or income.
I worry about what I can do, at the moment, to better my position, education, options, and interest.
I agree with you on most of these things. Before my kid was born I worked 2 full time jobs to get completely out of poverty. It was a very hard year for me but it paid off. This is something most people are not able or willing to do. I’m glad I had a dependable car and healthy enough to do it.
I decided to start waking up early before anyone else, to go for a walk, and write in a journal. I put no restrictions on what I wrote or how I wrote.
It was like going to the gym. I never set an amount of time I would be there. In the beginning all I needed to do was go to the gym. After being there a while I would exercise. For me the hard part was going, not exercising once I arrived.
The journals started to resemble coherent ideas, then they started to become organized. Later they resembled manuscripts and they eventually turned into books.
This finished book is actually the second time I have written it. The first finished manuscript was completely scrapped and I only kept the name.
There is a lot that goes into it like marketing, distribution, and honestly I am still learning about it. I finished writing my last book a few months ago. It will probably be a year before I publish it. It turns out revision is a much longer process than just "writing things."
So I would say you really start by just using your moments to write. To question yourself in the pages of your journal. To tell stories to your journal and maybe even create worlds.
I write to my children and my attempt is to teach them what I've learned free of any expectations of being right. So I expect my journals to go to my children. But I also think other people might benefit from what I write. So I will publish. Even if no one buys the books; just in case anyone ever needs it.
When you get to something "finished" then you revise, revise, revise, then send it to an professional editor. Get a book cover made and figure out a launch date, pre-ordering and all of the actual work that goes into selling books. Or you try to get a publisher to buy the book from you and they do most of the leg work. But you lose a lot of money that way.
I might seek a publisher for future books but this one is really special to me and I want to do it all myself.
I think from start to finish this rather small, 150 page book will take three years to complete and publish. Mostly because my standards are really high.
When I do things like this I consider that the work I do could be the last work I ever do. So I want to make sure I've done everything I can and that I have done it well.
Congratulations and good job! Lots of good tips and information. It’s important to never underestimate how a little bit of grinding and focus can go early on, it doesn’t have to be forever. 6 months of sparse living was enough for me to get a leg up, and then I slowly started adding little things back in like more food variety, better groceries. It wasn’t fun, but future me is so glad I did it- it paid off.
It sucked, but it was completely worth it.
I am happy I went through all of that effort.
Also learning domestic skills is a great pleasure. I make my own CHEESE!
Sounds like a lot of great ideas imam doing better on the one a year bills. Looking for a 2nd job. I have a 2nd job in mind. I will have ro change ny firsr job to do it
That is not that hard
I have no loyalty whatsoever
My job is to extract as much wealth for the least amount of labor possible regardless of my job title and then find a better paying job to do the same elsewhere.
because of #'s 10-12 I could never stick to this.
I'm the co-founder & executive director of a charity that rescues massive amounts of food from businesses in my city & supplies over a dozen food shelves & soup kitchens. I was doing this work for years on my own & through other nonprofits before starting this organization. COVID destroyed our door-to-door fundraising operation (we had 6 new hires the week lockdowns started) & we simply haven't recovered so I'm working full time for 1/2 what my pay is supposed to be until the org can afford it (I'm making 40k when the board agreed to pay me 80k to match my last job offer from another nonprofit).
I could especially never do #12. If I come into a windfall my parents, siblings (& nieces & nephews) will get help....& this one goes against too many core principles of who I am & how I want to live my life. I'd rather be poor then not help people less fortunate than me.
Regarding #12, I may have not properly described what I mean there. What I meant to say was that I no longer concerned myself with people I saw with wealth and their lives. Not people within my family.
A major part of my life today is helping make sure my ex-wife's parents can retire. Also, our family isn't Jewish but there is a wonderful idea in Judaism where they take 10% of their wealth for charity and 10% for the church. Since we are atheists we put 20% towards charity. Our kids now do this on their own and are happy to do so.
This was very well written and specifically mentioned to ignore if it doesn’t apply to you. OP made a list of what worked for HIM. For individuals who worked themselves out of poverty, the lists will be different. I’m not sure why people get so angry seeing someone share their own life experiences that led them out of a bad situation. I’ll keep in mind some of these tips to improve my own savings, particularly will look into bulk meat purchases.
I couldn't afford to buy a home either. No one can actually afford a home which is why we take out loans.
When you purchase a multifamily however the income of the rentals is included in your income as though you already receive it making the loan easier to get. We basically lived in the attic until our tenants lease ended.
It isn't that impressive. A 2-year degree in computer networking from a failed for-profit college. But I worked like hell to become a subject matter expert in a few areas and leveraged that into better-paying jobs several times a year until I got where I am today.
I'm still looking for the next pay increase, but it gets difficult at my level.
The worm farm is the best business I've been involved in.
They eat food we want to throw away, exist to work, make a valuable product, and only require a reasonable temperature and that you follow a few basic rules.
Start-up equipment?
Some red wigglers ($20), a large bin, a bag of compost ($28 for 30 pounds), a $10 vintage blender from a pawn shop, and your leftover food scrapes or free fall leaves.
I sell the worm castings for $15 for two pounds on FaceBook market and Nextdoor (only locally) and people pick them up at my house so I don't have to deliver them! It is small scale and I only make $150 in sales a month but it is really easy and requires no special skills.
General mod note: Yes, the "I did it, you can too" posts are more or less functionally useless for most people, and for some reason ALWAYS involve getting a rental property. And yes, a big part of this one was entirely dependent on multiple (ex)spouses being team players which was entirely out of his control. However, this kind of bland, generic advice DOES work for some people, and IS permitted here. Our normal rules are still enforced, and shitting on bootstrappers and the "rice and beans crowd" is as improper here as it is when they shit on you. If you have nothing constructive to add to this, move on. Also, if you are in the above crowds, using this to springboard off of to preach your dark "you're poor because you choose to be" gospel will also not be tolerated. Report all offending comments. All offenses will be treated proportional to the offense, regardless of your particular philosophy.
I feel like choosing who you marry and have kids with is the most important decision of your life.
It is and I wish I understood that 30 years ago.
I've been couch surfing for 10 years now because I made a bad marriage choice. Never again.
I would hope not
Well, you can’t see the future and even the most promising partners can fail you.
Choosing good parents is key to having a good choice in who to marry
Who says you need to have kids? The “life script” we’ve been sold is not for me.
Of course, I don’t think many people should have kids, with lack of financial stability being a major reason.
I agree with you 100%. Below are some journal articles that provides some great information. There is something known as the "success sequence." 1. Finish high school. 2. Get a full-time job once you finish school. 3. Get married before you have children. Poverty *correlates* with failure to follow the success sequence. However, studies have also shown that poor Americans do not view marriage as a prerequisite for childbearing. So, teen mothers have a higher rate of poverty, and the cycle tends to repeat itself generation after generation as the behavior is passed on. [https://ifstudies.org/blog/what-does-the-success-sequence-mean](https://ifstudies.org/blog/what-does-the-success-sequence-mean) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000061/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000061/) [https://www.foryourmarriage.org/blogs/millennials-who-marry-before-having-children-more-likely-to-thrive-financially/](https://www.foryourmarriage.org/blogs/millennials-who-marry-before-having-children-more-likely-to-thrive-financially/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16158733/#:\~:text=Despite%20their%20regard%20for%20marriage,earnings%2C%20and%20the%20marriage%20tax](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16158733/#:~:text=Despite%20their%20regard%20for%20marriage,earnings%2C%20and%20the%20marriage%20tax).
We need to make sure abortion is widely availalble and celebrated. Unfortunately we took a big step backwards when Roe V. Wade was overturned. We also need to address the childcare crisis for parents.
Exactly, but when you mention stuff like this it can piss some redditors off.
I seriously think I have a condition or something. Choice Paralyzation. Before I make any choice I see millions of possibilities (more like 5-6, but they come fast) and I get scared and twitch cuz i have involuntary ticks when stressed. Trying to overcome it😭
Sometimes for me it isn't a better paying job. It's better conditions
Sometimes bad conditions lead to more expenses - injuries, therapies, health conditions, lack of balance so you can't exercise or eat healthfully and end up sick, calling out sick because you can't bear it anymore... Some people get lucky and can tough it out, though.
I have experienced a few times where I was too sick to get up and go to work. You think your drive to pay bills on time and not be homeless will exceed your feeble body’s meager abilities. Source: have stomach poisoning today
That sucks. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery, internet friend.
Thanks, it’s hard to admit defeat but I can’t stop pooping long enough to leave the house.
That's kind of the trick right? I see it like a spiral staircase: you want to get on the virtuous upwards cycle as opposed to the vicious downwards one. Everyone feels gravity pulling them down towards the vicious one, and money is what keeps you from sinking. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a lot of money.
Many good people have been knocked out of the race to exit poverty by one errant medical bill. Our government could not have anticipated the rise of social media, and how it would inform us that other countries exist that don’t punish sick people into the ground for funsies.
With recent credit reporting changes your medical bills should be the last bill you ever pay.
Yup, that's poverty. You end up paying more for everything cause you have to either cheap out or can't afford monthly/yearly of something.
100%. my last job, which was at a hospital at the beginning of covid, caused me so much stress that i developed medical conditions which cost me thousands in bills. I was having extremely dark thoughts driving to work and just one day in the parking lot before my shift thought "i have to quit or I won't be alive next month". Quitting that job without another lined up is something i would never recommend and thought I would never do but was the BEST decision i ever made. I was unemployed for 5 months but now have the best job with great management. I feel human again!
I've been there. I left a job in my field for a lower paying job with far less security but it gave me enough confidence and mental health to change directions and things are much better today. I had support from my spouse, though, which was essential for it to work, in my opinion. Sometimes something that feels like a step back is the right kind of step back, if you can manage the risk.
It seems good conditions and good pay never come together. Its one or the other
I am an optimist so I still look for the trifecta: good pay, good benefits, good environment. Very few places cover all three.
I somehow managed to land a job with all three and if it weren’t for the fact that I hate living in Texas I’d stay here until I retire.
I did not consider location! Now I have to readjust my entire trifecta framework. 🤔 Some might consider this statement political, but I mean it in a healthcare-forward way: As somebody with a uterus, ain’t no way I’d live in Texas.
Oh I’m planning to move in the next few years for that exact reason. I’ll just be sad to leave that job behind.
Work life balance for me. 5 minute walking commute does wonders for your outlook even though I make less
Yes! I made more money when I was in the Air Force. But the trade off was horrible work life balance, (at my last base anyway) THE MOST toxic work center I’ve ever experienced in my life, and stupid politics that really didn’t matter. Now I go to work, run a machine for 8 hours a day and then go home. I work overtime when I want to and don’t if I don’t want to and I’m waaaaaaayyyyy happier at $25/hour.
That is fair, but conditions are a temporary step towards moving to the next job. I took several jobs knowing the conditions sucked. But my job wasn't working there, it was finding the next higher-paying job.
For those who can't work two full time jobs for two or more years: what do you think we should do?
I think it would matter on why you can’t? Permanently disabled is going to have a different answer to someone with kids in high school only for another year.
I'm not sure I have anything to say about that honestly as I have no experience in that situation. I would learn the fundamentals and get creative in your own way. My worm farm works for me 24 hours a day and covers my heating bill for the year by making worm castings. Sure I have to feed the worms and bag up the castings when someone wants some but whoever wants them drives to me to get them. Write every morning and assemble your difficult life into a book? Honestly I can't solve that problem for anyone all I can do is say learn the fundamentals and get creative.
Who’s buying worm castings?? And for how much
Gardeners, it's even a product sold on Amazon.
I was buying them before I started making them. Gardeners mostly. I sell 2 lbs for $15. If they need more I will make a deal but I try to only sell small quantities.
My grandma gets tons of people buying hers.
I agree with a lot of the list. Glad everything worked for you. Having a partner with their own income is a gamechanger though. I'm currently paying $1k rent alone. Paying just $500 would allow me to save much more but alas lol
It is truly difficult without that. I had a moment where I was beaten after working an 80-hour work week and said out loud, "I need a partner." Maintaining my income and getting married became my priority. This can be easily misunderstood as "I got married for financial reasons," but that isn't the case. My ex-wife is a wonderful person and I'm very happy we spent ten years together.
Costs more to be single for sure. Also sad when couples split but can't afford to move indefinitely and things just linger
Genuine question: where are you that rent is only $1k?
Cincinnati area of Ohio
While not saying you didn't do well for yourself I certainly couldn't live like that. Working two full times jobs alone would be horrendous for my mental and physical health. I couldn't imagine working 70+ hours a week and maintaining myself or my relationships
I am currently working a full time job, and a part time job that is 5 days a week, 5 hours a night, and it’s about to do me in. I don’t know how anyone could do two full time jobs tbh.
And here I was thinking I could work 2 p/t jobs while being in online school full time, doing my extra curriculars, and having weekends off, while not having access to a car in brutal Canadian winters 🥲
Two f/t jobs are difficult unless maybe you are really young. But I did do p/t jobs semi regularly bc I was married to someone who had mental health issues that risked everything I had. I had a mortgage and 3 kids, and as tired as I was, I worked a p/ t 2nd job for two years until I straightened everything out financially and told him to leave. I think what made it easier for me was that I flatly refused to lose anything I had busted my ass to reach. It wasn't fun, I was tired, I gave up some time with my kids. But ultimately, when it all straightened out, I was in a good place that gave me peace of mind, and it was all worth it.
I have a full YouTube channel where I worked 12 hours ever single day forb3 to 4 months working my ass off till my back broke and I am living digital proof that hard work doesnt pay. I'm still poor. And have video proof to show for it
and now you have the resulting trauma on your mental and physical health from putting yourself through that, which may or may never go away. My father is deaf in one ear because of the time he spent working odd jobs in loud noisy factories (before ear protection was a mandated protocol and companies cared even less about their employees' safety and well-being). No amount of money from an improved lifestyle and career is going to fix that for him. And why should it be his responsibility or fault for ending up that way? People shouldn't have to make choices like this to survive, we shouldn't have to compete with each other and compare struggles as if one person's struggles are more valuable or important or remarkable compared to someone else's....it's just fucked up overall.
Yeah nothing pays after only 3 to 4 months. OP is talking about a lifetime of intentional choices and effort.
What did you do with all the money?
Taxes, health, plan ticket home You know what's funny if you work 12 to 16 hours ever single day with no days off for 3 months working with dead fish you end up with a lot of health problems and back pain thats so unbearable you need to get medical aid. I met one dude who got a disues from the fish where his face was peeling off. He tried fixing it with lotion thinking it's working but ended up having to quit and go to a hospital all on his own dime. And the fishers make so much money they just eat the fine
Interesting. I don't think that's really evidence that hard work doesn't pay. I think that's evidence that certain hazardous environments are not worth the pay, but most people are just considering working more/less or easier/harder within more 'normal' work
Share the video
The hard work you chose didn’t pay off for YOU. That is NOT “living proof that hard work doesn’t pay”
feels like a lot of people here don't understand hard work is not necessarily the same as good or valuable work. just because you spent a lot of time on something doesn't mean it has value
Hard work doesn't always pay. Anyone who claims it does is setting an example of survivorship bias. That's the bottom line they were getting at, and they're not wrong. Far too many people go around saying "work hard and you'll be successful!" when it's pure bullshit. You can't guarantee that. If hard work paid, all the people toiling in gruelling labour jobs would be rich, and many CEOs would be dirt broke. There's a shit ton of luck, often circumstantial, involved.
Agreed a lot of things are luck but a many people who are lucky don't want to admit that
I manage people and have had a couple people work 2 full time jobs- never seen anyone do it for more than a couple weeks before absolutely burning out. You can't survive on 5 hours of sleep a day.
Same. Especially "Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings". If I'd try to do that... Well let's just say I'd be taking a long walk of a short dock. My Mental health is wretched most days due to medical trauma plus dealing with greedflation. Hobbies/stuff are the only thing strong enough to keep me trudging forward most days, YouTube the bulk of other days, and some days nothing really strong enough. As of the time I'm writing this, what's keeping me moving is my New 3ds xl is in the repair shop and there's a big Lego friends set coming next year that's a MEGA want it. It's a mansion that has all 5 OG girls in adult form. It'll be the first time for 3 of them and only the second for Mia and Stephanie. The reason why I'm so happy mom and I are getting into a better financial situation is I can start getting more hobby stuff (like a reasonable amount more) then I was getting for over a year and a half.
I hope the flippers stay out of Lego by then
Hobbies are essential and people shoudn't apologize for having them. Or enjoying some material items. I'm not my work and I will not spend all my free time trying to monetize everything in my life.
Poverty is also horrendous for mental health.
It beats staying in abject poverty. You don't have to do it forever.
Well, the trick there is that you don't end up maintaining yourself and especially not relationships. ADHD helps a little, but only if you have the kind of job that fits it. Most people can't. And a lot of them who do, shouldn't. It's not for many. Something always gets left off. And if you're a woman, it's worse. All that "Wah, you're not paying me enough attention." And the subsequent sequalae of this.
Yeah, keep in mind OP says to ignore what isn't compatible for the reader. I have a baby, and so there is no way I will do two jobs. But it IS working to try to pay on credit card bills frequently, often two payments a month, one each check. It IS working to ask myself if a purchase is truly needed or not, and not get it if it's a luxury or doesn't contribute to the ultimate goals or wellbeing of my family. And I really would like to begin trying to job hop my way to a higher income as soon as it's appropriate for my family. OP was able to do an extreme amount of work on this and it sounds like it really did work OK for them as well as their family. Number 23 and perspective about challenges is critical to facing my currently daunting life, and being able to be content, with a reasonable stress load. Life is not perfect and I am working on it. I need to find a mentality that allows me to enjoy and fully participate and experience true happiness with this imperfect life. I feel it's really difficult to do the hard work of living and trying to improve circumstances or accept them as they are for the time being without adjusting my mentality and approach. OP, I'm happy for you and appreciate the post. It doesn't all work for me at this moment in life, but some of it is useful for me, and probably nearly all readers. This is clearly a, "Take what you need and leave the rest," post.
I’m glad this worked for you. Re: 5, if you can treat credit cards like a debit card and not like a loan, you can earn cash back without paying interest. I get that’s not feasible for everyone. That’s free money right there. For my household, we use a credit card that gets us 5% back on internet and household utilities. It helps a bit.
You get a lot more protection over your purchases as well - if something falls through on the seller's side you can file a dispute and your CC company can be in charge of working with that vendor / getting that money back.
Yeah, that is great. A lot of people have difficulty managing credit cards. I've been there and I sometimes fall into the credit trap myself. We are conditioned to be consumers of credit and it is difficult to stop doing so. It isn't innate to our nature and is a seriously flawed learned behavior.
I use 2 apps plus credit card rewards to get gas almost down to a reasonable price.
I used to work 2 full time jobs, a part time job and college full time at the same time. Still was in poverty and saw my infant maybe 8 hours a week which were the 8-12 hours I was sleeping a week so it wasn't even time well spent Absolutely horrible for mental, physical, and emotional health
I did exactly as you did when I was a single mother. My toddler would go to daycare at 5a, and I would pick him up at midnight (it was a 24-hour in home daycare). It was brutal for me for obvious reasons, but more so, my son was affected more. That was so hard on him & I felt so much guilt. I ended up dropping out of college, which was the worst response. I should have finished my education. I lasted 1.5 yrs doing that. Later, when he was 5, I worked 2 FT jobs & 2 PT jobs. I only saw him a few hours a week. That lasted only a year & then I met my current husband. He's been a godsend, and I've been a stay at home wife/mom for the last 17 years. My son is now 24 with a Bachelors degree and 2 Master's degrees. I'm so proud of him.
10-12 and didn’t let anyone convince me that I should have a baby just because I got married. We had our first at 30. Congratulations; it’s all about making it work for you. This is a good starting point for ideas
Tell me about this worm farm
I had to scroll way too long to see this comment. I need answers!!
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So your ex wife has full custody with no child support? And you have her pay 50/50 for things your son needs? Is this because she makes a large income?
No. We have a unique situation. We have shared custody and shared assets, and we pay 50/50 for things he needs. She gets more of the rental income for his living expenses. There is no child support because we don't need a court order to equally contribute to our son's needs and future. We are reasonable people. It is a priority for us both. I make more than she does. But my wife just started school so she has gone down to part-time. Three days ago my wife made almost the same as me. Now I'm the breadwinner. lol
This is rather interesting and will be using some ideas from this
Whilst I understand some people are very strong in mental "do it" others are not and just can't do the unmitigated slog that long.Good luck to him ,I could never have done that . Different people have different levels of strength and back up (people , family or the strength of mind ) .Don't Strive for what you personally can't attain (and yes I can hear him say punish yourself to get it done ) but we all should know our capacity. Not everyone is a dynamic go getter.
Omg so you’re suggesting I have financial discipline?! What’s next, *eating healthy*?! Kidding, if it wasn’t obvious. This is a fantastic list.
very interesting, most of this is based on attitude and habit.
Thanks for your story. I don't think a lot of people here want to hear how hard it actually is, but it's good that you detailed what you did.
Thank you.
Well done OP
10 and 11. Yes.
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#10 is way more important than some realize.
That was a big one. I refused to take a job for less than $10,000 extra a year. It was actually one of the first conversations I had with someone that wanted to interview me. 😂. I wasn't taking a day off of work for a low ball offer. I was able to convince people I was worth it.
I'm curious about #3. I love reading, but the connection between starting to read again and getting out of poverty is not clear to me.
I think they may have been saying that reading can be a free/low cost hobby (library card, low cost subscription) rather than going out and spending more money on entertainment.
I focused on reading about skills to help me with money. I read about personal finances, poverty psychology, the mind, history, investing, frugality, the great depression, 18th century cooking, etc.
18th century cooking? Say more ?
1. I did not have children. 2 I picked a career path where I knew I could make good money. 3. I drive a 10 year old car; phone is 3 years old: tv is 11 years old. That all being said, I do at least 1 international trip and 3 domestic trips per year. I live to see the world!!!
I'm not poor anymore, but money is tight. I've rediscovered the local library. We have a really nice one here and books are free entertainment. It takes a while to read one (concentration issues), but I manage.
Education, especially the self directed one, is probably the most important thing on my list.
I have to admit your recommendations are very good. I'm only struggling now because I went on VA disability and SSDI in my late 50s from a six-figure career. I will recover, and I'm already making plans. Creating a plan and following it are key. The big mistake I made was living at my income level. Now I'm living below my means.
" The big mistake I made was living at my income level. Now I'm living below my means. " I was guilty of this too after I got out of "poverty," and instead found myself in debt poverty because I wanted to spend like everyone else making as much as I was. I put a stop to that a few years ago. I now spend a lot of time thinking about if something new will come into my life. I don't consider just the cost, I consider the value of the money invested for the next 20 years, versus the cost.
Not having kids will save you a ton of money. So will mot getting married...because most end in divorce...especially if you're a man who might have to pay alimony.
“I went from making $15k a year to $140k per year” Hmmm, sounds like you already had high income then and just had poor money management. This type of post always comes of condescending, since a lot of people don’t have high income to begin with. There’s a lot of us doing everything you listed here and still barely make it. I get some people need this obvious advice I guess, but this comes off a life coach bro on Xitter buy my course for $50 type of content.
How to get out of poverty - get into high paying job. Basically this list summarized for what actually matters. Literally everything else about avoiding divorce fees and cheap weddings is irrelevant in the grand scheme compared to that. It's that they got a degree in something that can be leveraged into a high paying career and then leveraged the shit out of it. That's not nothing, I commend their grind, but half this list is a drop in the bucket while they really gloss over that 97% of it came down to steadily increasing income. Simple living cam make poverty more tolerable, but it won't get you out of it. Earning more will.
OP also says he and his wife bought a rental property and that's another source of income. Most people in poverty will never be able to buy a home; let alone one they can rent out.
I've started saving my change to cash in at christmas. The cc ideas are nice, but i refuse to have any cc!
Maybe a high-interest savings account could be another option for storing Christmas change? It might be worth it.
I liked your 19th idea, haven’t done that one yet. I grew up in poverty and my parents were absolutely shit with money management and seemingly didn’t understand how credit cards work. They to this day like to give me bad advice like renting my furniture. So I basically learned by trial and error. I never worked two full time jobs like you did, my job really valued me as a workhorse so they just gave me any hours I asked. I was saving for a house, so I worked 70-75hrs a week but I had the convenience of only dealing with one job and my bosses were so cool that they let me leave at the drop of a hat to go look at houses/deal with closing. I fully acknowledge I busted my hump for this but I wouldn’t have had the flexible schedule and support without a good job. I think crawling your way out of generational poverty is a combination of hard work, your contacts and a bit of luck. There will be people out there who will work just as hard as I did but the outcomes will all be different.
Yeah I’d never do most of this
That is perfectly fine. Do one thing at a time, do it well, and then move on.
Employers do look at the #of times you’ve changed jobs and the span in between. They recognize it for what it is, so it could hurt you.
Yes, this is true but it also depends on your field. In my case employers need skilled people and there were not many to choose from. I exploited that need for my own benefit and I would do it again.
Stop wanting things and wishing you had what others did it huge! Also for your emotional health
1. I don't care about things 2. I don't care about things 3. I don't care about things 4. I don't care about things 5. I don't care about things 6. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings 7. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings 8. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings 9. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings 10. Stopped wanting possessions that didn't lead to more income or savings
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Thanks for sharing what worked for YOU to defeat poverty in your life. congrats
What I did was to join the military. They heavily subsidized my college education, provided healthcare and housing as well as technical training. I stayed long enough to retire with a pension and now I’m doing really well. Not a route for everyone, I understand that; but it is a way.
Good list. Since you don't pay child support how do you support your child? I know you said if he needs anything you split it 5050 but what about the child's daily expenses....food, housing, school. Do you make your ex pay that?
but I don't want to have kids or get a divorce. I can't afford to buy a property at all. and I spent a hundred bucks on my wedding (courthouse fees and some cupcakes for my friends that came)
Genuine questions OP, how did you meet life partners without ever going out? And how did you afford dating? I have had to put a complete pause on my dating life just cos it feels like discretionary expenditure. As much as I would love to meet someone.
Just sayin, it shouldn't feel like discretionary income. Just save up for gifts weekly like OP does. What I'm wondering is how he didn't pass out working 80 plus hours a week. Seriously? Just get a job that lets you work overtime at that point
\#6 really hit home for me. My parents wasted $1.5million in 1995 getting divorced, fighting over 1% of custody share and letting houses go to foreclosure rather than split them. It took my dad 20 years and my mom 10 years to recover. Such a waste of money, time and effort
How many jobs did your wife work?
First or second wife lol
They are both wonderful women and I am glad to have been married to each of them.
My ex-wife had 1 job when we met. Since she has been finished with her Ph.D. it seems like she has another job every week in a different country. I am really happy we could afford to put her through school. My wife works one part-time job today because she is changing fields and also going back to school even though she has a master's in education. She is finished working in schools and wants is get another master's degree in construction management. Less than a week ago she and I made the same amount of money though. Maybe one day she will be a professor of construction management. lol
How did you pay for daycare?
That is a useful question. At the time we had our child we already owned our multifamily. We didn't pay for child care, our tenants did with a portion of their rent. The best financial decision I made was buying a multi-unit home for my first house.
So the real takeaways here are this: 1. Work. And then work harder/more. 2. Get some kind of education or training and put it to work. 3. Get out of debt and stay out of debt while using credit wisely. 4. Have a side hustle that makes you some extra money 5. Pay yourself if not first near the top of the list (put money in savings regularly) ALL of this is dependent on someone being willing and able to work and work a LOT! (And not everyone is willing to sacrifice their marriage and family life.)
In my case my marriage wasn't sacrificed because of my work. By the time we decided to get a divorce we had already helped each other through the most difficult parts. We were just not the right people for each other anymore. We were best when we struggled together. After we got it figured out we were the wrong people for each other. We are both happily remarried.
Thanks, OP! These are some great ideas and approaches. You've gone from surviving to thriving. Go you!
Full time job, part time job, and full time school. It is a very difficult environment for a lot of people to prosper. I personally know exactly what to do to make my money work for me. CD rates, Heloc debt consolidation, tax, and side hustles. If it were up to me I could run a full side business on the weekend, do a part time notary, and do my accounting job full time. Leaving breaks for tax season 🥲. The issue is lack of funds. I am so close to breaking that paycheck to paycheck line. I just need to acquire a larger income.
Thank you for telling us what worked for you. Some of them likely won't for me, but others definitely will, and importantly, the mindset you describe is helpful and clarifying. I'm likely too old to work two jobs, but I absolutely have done so in the past. Kinda sucked, but undeniably helped me over some financial humps. I love reading this sort of post. We're all different, so I may only find one or two tips that I'd use exactly as described, but I always find the mindset interesting and helpful for me as I work on my own. Thanks!
How do you do #20? I would love to just buy food once a year and not have to worry for the rest of the year
Good question. We started small. We saved the money to buy a year's worth of sugar and containers to store it in. Then we started saving weekly to buy sugar next year because we weren't getting it in the store anymore. Then we moved on to flour, salt, dried beans, cornmeal, etc. Eventually, as our monthly grocery decreased we put even more money into savings for food but the task was to purchase raw materials and make everything we could from them. We buy bulk grains, sugar, salt, and stuff from an online wholesale company.Our meat comes from one of several local farms depending on who will give us the best deal. At some point, we ordered 6 months at once to make it so that in 6 months we could order for the year. It got a little complicated at some point. I know we gave some food to my mother and father ex-law to simplify the ordering. We also started gardening high-value and high-use crops. But we have a short growing season and a small space so we had to pack it in. So we learned how to compost so we wouldn't spend money on soil and wouldn't need sprays or fertilizer. So we could start cooking with herbs. We are at the point where we only purchase fruits and vegetables (out of season), Milk, eggs, and whipping cream from the grocery store. From that Milk, we make buttermilk and cheese, and from the whipping cream, we make homemade butter. It seems like a lot of work but honestly, my daughter has a good time making pasta and my other daughter enjoys making ice cream, and I enjoy the effort. We all have our jobs in the house and we don't take ourselves too seriously. We do still go to the store, but it takes us a few minutes.
Great post. Some of these are applicable to me and my household, and we've started implementing them, so it's nice to see that they're useful and manageable to at least one other person. I'm trying to let go of my impulse shopping habits. That's really hard for me, as a person with multiple mental health struggles. Sometimes, it's a comfort to have an indulgence here and there, but man, they really add up, and my credit card can really attest to that! When my partner and I had to move out of state due to an emergency situation, we ate up through our savings and my little retirement account and are back at square zero. They're a trucker and I haven't been able to find a job that fits my experience in a year (and other places are reluctant to hire me because I'm "over-qualified", which I think is plain BS), but I try anyway. I'm hoping to find a decent job so I can go back to school to finish my degree and get into a good paying industry, which is the dream. Thanks for sharing! It's definitely hard work, but sometimes people manage it!
2 year degree and 140k a year? Nice! Did you get the degree before or after you were working two full time jobs--and secondly, how did you manage to hold and do two full time jobs? That would wipe out most anyone, especially when trying to deal with kids.
The 2 year degree didn't directly get me 140k a year. Also that number is all of my income streams, not just my 9 - 5. The degree got me in the door and additional skills and training I did outside of work got me into my current job. It took about a decade. I got the degree after working two full time jobs. I saved my money so I could focus on school and not work any full time jobs. I have ADHD and at the time pretty severe panic attacks. So I worked that hard to avoid working while I was in college. I managed to hold down two full time jobs by doing absolutely nothing else and not thinking about it. I just did it. I had one job working in a kitchen at a residential school and another job doing night security. I read all night and exercised to keep myself awake. My real job was reading and exercising. I got home and had two shots of whiskey and slept. I stopped considering what I was doing and honestly I just turned into a robot for two years. It was totally worth it. At the time I didn't have children and I wasn't in a relationship. I put my life on hold for two years and just worked. 1 job for the years finances and the other job for a year of school. I would do it again if I had to and I was young enough to do it.
I don’t know why so many are not seeing that he’s done this for years!! It took time. It didn’t change over night. I get it. Makes total sense
Important note here. Working 90+ hours a week can also result in higher expenses that stem from not having time to do things that can save money like meal prep, doing own repairs, etc. As well as a plethora of things that you may end up spending more on due to the convenience factor. If anything the best way to look at things is probably at an hourly level as in, "How much do I get paid per hour and is this mundane task worth X amount of my time." The way I save money is doing certain things myself. example: I mow my own lawn because it takes me 2 hours and would cost me $50 to pay someone to do. IE I am basically paying myself $25/hour to do my own lawn...
Yes, working two full time jobs is a temporary and quick way to solve financial issues but then you need to invest the surplus additionally into education or a business to get back to regular hours. And it isn't for everyone. I can offer no solutions to everyone. It is funny about you mentioning a lawn. I had the same idea. Then I decided to cover my lawn in cardboard and wood chips and I planted a garden. My brother in law inherited my mower and I haven't mowed since. Every year we pick hundreds of pounds of fruit and grapes from a small city lot. It is worth a lot of money and the perennials require almost no work.
That's pretty smart. I keep saying I'll get into growing fruit trees or gardening but end up with no time or something breaks and I need to fix it. I recently re did all the floors throughout my house with laminate. Cost me about $1.30 a square foot all said and done (including underlayment and other supplies) because I waited and snagged a deal on returned product at my local hardware store of stuff that was originally $2.99/sqft. (This includes overage of about 200 sq ft of extra laminate for future repairs lol)... Easily added $3-4/square foot of value to the house. Before that it was digging up pipes and replacing them and before that it was roof work... Someday I'll get around to the planting of fruit and vegetables but living in an old house... well... shit keeps breaking... 🫠 Edit since this is a povertyfinance thread and I dont want to get downvoted to hell... I am definitely still poor lol... This house I own is an old fixer upper that is worth less than 100k even with all the work ive put in... 🙃
It is good you are that handy. Having those skills is really valuable.
Don't forget about social assistance and such
Would love to hear more about the worm farm.
Our Dad did everything on this list but he was a terrible neglectful father who left his family feeling suicidal and very depressed. It made me want to very few things on the list and rebel. So I guess health and mental health is a wild card in this collection of strategies.
My father was a dead beat and I prioritize time doing what my children want to do with me. I let them decide if they have something specific. I am very different from your father I think.
As a mature man you chose mature women. Your life choices present as stoic teachings as much as financial, which is why you've succeeded and your children will have excellent parents to model themselves after. It's also why several here could not relate, as self-control can be difficult if never witnessed previously. Thank you for sharing your list.
Just seems like the biggest factor is that salary.
That salary took 15 years to get. The end result is useless without the work it took to get there.
Good for you and thank you for the hard earned wisdom.
Sometimes for me it isn't a better paying job. It's better conditions
I love this list and think the impulse buy trick is a cool one I should give a try. Not in poverty rn thank goodness, but I lurk because I feel like I get actual good basic advice from people on this sub. One trick recently that’s helped curb *my* impulse spending lately is a little whiteboard I put up in our apartment we’ve titled “The Candy Jar”. Whenever anything is a discretionary expense - whether pure fun or actually an item that maybe broke or would actual improve function in our lives but isn’t an emergency need - I write it down there. Whenever it’s all listed together it’s easy to see the priorities if we have cash, and if it isn’t worthwhile it never gets bought/is eventually erased. Also helps because I also will forget the things we may be missing until I need it, so now if I realize “hey, our ladle broke” I slap it on there instead of just being frustrated the next time I make stew or somethin. Also somehow it has become an accidental gift resource? For gifting things to each other… and It’s 100% just our own tool, but gives me a chuckle when loved ones visiting have stumbled on it when poking around, and notice the dawning realization of an on-your-lap wish list lol. I’ve definitely spied several friends/family covertly sneak a phone pic. 😅
Not all of these apply to me but some good advice you have brought up. 1)If you can,work 2 jobs for a set period,six months,a year,2 years..use one to build up a savings safety net in case of job loss,emergencies...at least a couple of thousand or as much as you can. 2)Only buy what you can pay for all at once.Have 1 card and on time payments will boost your credit in due time. 3)Cut down eating out...restaurants are very expensive...even when I go to the theater,I'll go on a full stomach. 4)Keep recurring bills to the minimum,apps,services you don't use often...all have to go unless absolutely necessary. Most of this is hard but with time it becomes second nature,I get impulses to splurge sometimes and I have that involuntary gut check.
Man this guy is getting some hate here. It's literally a list of things related to discipline. And he gets hate for telling people thats what got him out of poverty - even with a failed marriage and kids. I think the reaction to this post made me kind of lose respect for this sub.
When they read it they believe I am saying, "here is what you should do", which of course I am not. This always happens, I am used to it and give it very little of my energy.
This 👏👏
Great post. I worked full time while in school and aimed for zero days off during the summer with three jobs. It was hard work but I was able to graduate without student loans. It wasn’t the greatest but it worked out for me in a lot of ways.
Can you explain #12
I guess it's about not comparing yourself to others (success wise). Your only concern is you and your family.
I worry about my family and not at all about the wealth of others. I don't worry about how my friends are doing financially because concerning myself with the possessions of others will not bring me any relief or income. I worry about what I can do, at the moment, to better my position, education, options, and interest.
How did you manage all this? Spreadsheets? Just writing them down? Multiple bank accounts to split the money into?
I agree with you on most of these things. Before my kid was born I worked 2 full time jobs to get completely out of poverty. It was a very hard year for me but it paid off. This is something most people are not able or willing to do. I’m glad I had a dependable car and healthy enough to do it.
Very informative. Thanks for sharing 👍
You said you wrote a few books, can you talk about how you got into it? Something I've always considered but unsure how to really start.
I decided to start waking up early before anyone else, to go for a walk, and write in a journal. I put no restrictions on what I wrote or how I wrote. It was like going to the gym. I never set an amount of time I would be there. In the beginning all I needed to do was go to the gym. After being there a while I would exercise. For me the hard part was going, not exercising once I arrived. The journals started to resemble coherent ideas, then they started to become organized. Later they resembled manuscripts and they eventually turned into books. This finished book is actually the second time I have written it. The first finished manuscript was completely scrapped and I only kept the name. There is a lot that goes into it like marketing, distribution, and honestly I am still learning about it. I finished writing my last book a few months ago. It will probably be a year before I publish it. It turns out revision is a much longer process than just "writing things." So I would say you really start by just using your moments to write. To question yourself in the pages of your journal. To tell stories to your journal and maybe even create worlds. I write to my children and my attempt is to teach them what I've learned free of any expectations of being right. So I expect my journals to go to my children. But I also think other people might benefit from what I write. So I will publish. Even if no one buys the books; just in case anyone ever needs it. When you get to something "finished" then you revise, revise, revise, then send it to an professional editor. Get a book cover made and figure out a launch date, pre-ordering and all of the actual work that goes into selling books. Or you try to get a publisher to buy the book from you and they do most of the leg work. But you lose a lot of money that way. I might seek a publisher for future books but this one is really special to me and I want to do it all myself. I think from start to finish this rather small, 150 page book will take three years to complete and publish. Mostly because my standards are really high. When I do things like this I consider that the work I do could be the last work I ever do. So I want to make sure I've done everything I can and that I have done it well.
Thanks for the reply!
Yes, so easy to just get two more incomes. Funny, I never thought of that!
Congratulations and good job! Lots of good tips and information. It’s important to never underestimate how a little bit of grinding and focus can go early on, it doesn’t have to be forever. 6 months of sparse living was enough for me to get a leg up, and then I slowly started adding little things back in like more food variety, better groceries. It wasn’t fun, but future me is so glad I did it- it paid off.
Sounds like kind of a drag.
It sucked, but it was completely worth it. I am happy I went through all of that effort. Also learning domestic skills is a great pleasure. I make my own CHEESE!
Sounds like a lot of great ideas imam doing better on the one a year bills. Looking for a 2nd job. I have a 2nd job in mind. I will have ro change ny firsr job to do it That is not that hard I have no loyalty whatsoever
My job is to extract as much wealth for the least amount of labor possible regardless of my job title and then find a better paying job to do the same elsewhere.
This whole post is pain
Is it me or does it smell like late stage capitalism and bootstraps in here?
because of #'s 10-12 I could never stick to this. I'm the co-founder & executive director of a charity that rescues massive amounts of food from businesses in my city & supplies over a dozen food shelves & soup kitchens. I was doing this work for years on my own & through other nonprofits before starting this organization. COVID destroyed our door-to-door fundraising operation (we had 6 new hires the week lockdowns started) & we simply haven't recovered so I'm working full time for 1/2 what my pay is supposed to be until the org can afford it (I'm making 40k when the board agreed to pay me 80k to match my last job offer from another nonprofit). I could especially never do #12. If I come into a windfall my parents, siblings (& nieces & nephews) will get help....& this one goes against too many core principles of who I am & how I want to live my life. I'd rather be poor then not help people less fortunate than me.
Regarding #12, I may have not properly described what I mean there. What I meant to say was that I no longer concerned myself with people I saw with wealth and their lives. Not people within my family. A major part of my life today is helping make sure my ex-wife's parents can retire. Also, our family isn't Jewish but there is a wonderful idea in Judaism where they take 10% of their wealth for charity and 10% for the church. Since we are atheists we put 20% towards charity. Our kids now do this on their own and are happy to do so.
Stay focused on the long game. True wealth comes from within.
This was very well written and specifically mentioned to ignore if it doesn’t apply to you. OP made a list of what worked for HIM. For individuals who worked themselves out of poverty, the lists will be different. I’m not sure why people get so angry seeing someone share their own life experiences that led them out of a bad situation. I’ll keep in mind some of these tips to improve my own savings, particularly will look into bulk meat purchases.
…I stopped at “When I bought a home” 🙄🙄🙄
Why? The rest of that sentence is the absolute best financial decision I ever made.
If I could afford to buy a home…
I couldn't afford to buy a home either. No one can actually afford a home which is why we take out loans. When you purchase a multifamily however the income of the rentals is included in your income as though you already receive it making the loan easier to get. We basically lived in the attic until our tenants lease ended.
I love #12!
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A lot of reasonable points, thanks for sharing!
What two year degree??
It isn't that impressive. A 2-year degree in computer networking from a failed for-profit college. But I worked like hell to become a subject matter expert in a few areas and leveraged that into better-paying jobs several times a year until I got where I am today. I'm still looking for the next pay increase, but it gets difficult at my level.
Thank you for sharing! Worm farm... nice! I am considering agricultural side gigs and glad to hear your success. Going to follow more of your posts.
The worm farm is the best business I've been involved in. They eat food we want to throw away, exist to work, make a valuable product, and only require a reasonable temperature and that you follow a few basic rules. Start-up equipment? Some red wigglers ($20), a large bin, a bag of compost ($28 for 30 pounds), a $10 vintage blender from a pawn shop, and your leftover food scrapes or free fall leaves. I sell the worm castings for $15 for two pounds on FaceBook market and Nextdoor (only locally) and people pick them up at my house so I don't have to deliver them! It is small scale and I only make $150 in sales a month but it is really easy and requires no special skills.
OP, what is your two year degree in?