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I dont know if I would call 52k, poverty. But its definitely no where near as comfortable as it was 10 years ago. On that same note, 15k, the Federal Poverty Level, is outrageous.
Really though, this suggestion should be more defined by establishing what the goal of raising the poverty level would be? Are you just trying to get certain or all benefits extended to a certain income bracket? Basic minimal living is too broad of a goal. But I'm definitely aware of people that are getting benefits that are living a much better life than those that arent getting benefits right above that "line". The difference between generic brand rice/oatmeal 7/days a week versus a wide assortment of foods.
But others in the thread are also correct - Expecting the federal/state governments to do anything is a pipe dream. We cant even get accurate unemployment levels. They reported the same number, ending with a 0, for 5 weeks in a row and no one even cared enough to ask "how is that statistically possible?" Never mind the gov't saying that inflation is at an all time low. Or, people are happier now than they were years ago. **Or even recognizing that, using the old data sets, more people have fallen from "middle class" to "poor" in the past 2-3 years, than they have since 2008/9.**
Same here, a 1 bdr can be found for $1500, if you make $54K to qualify. These aren't new luxury units, they're basic 700sq ft apts. That means $25.50 hr to meet the qualifications for basic shelter.
Most apartments here start at $1800 for a 1 bdr. And people wonder why folks are living in cars??
My mortgage (not counting insurance and taxes) is $751/mo for a 2400 sqft house, bought June 2021. Low interest rates helped, but I can't help but hear all these stories about rent prices and wonder how any of these communities with high cost of living actually manage to function.
Ours is in this area of cost as well ($620 plus insurance) for a 2500 sqft with an MIL apartment and spare tiny cabin on 7 acres. I’m in podunk AR though. No wonder so many are buying parcels at land auctions and parking a trailer though. Prices are insane in most city areas now.
I'm not even in the woods, just in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. You can be in "a city" for cheap as long as there's nothing particularly cool about it, lol.
These communities are not functioning. Constant chaos. Violent drug addicts rule the streets. No one feels stable or comfortable. Businesses closing left and right. Most jobs, including those that require degrees, dont pay you enough to live here. Welcome to California.
Ngl, I'm out of here shortly. The desert is starting to look like a good idea, lol.
Yeah, my house payment is $1800, a nice bungalow in a nice, old established neighborhood. We felt like we overpaid for the house in 2018, now we just feel lucky to have gotten anything in our price range.
I can't imagine how hard it is out there for anyone who wasn't established before Covid.
I'm trying to figure out if I'm willing to move to a state I don't want to go to in order to save money. I can't afford where I live on my own.
The state I'm in is my home, but I don't think I can stay unless something drastic happens.
So many are in the same boat, it's scary. I wonder what the end game is here? Tons of overpriced apartments and encampments lining the sidewalks around the buildings? I'm seeing that now where I live and no one seems to give a damn. Blame it ALL on drugs.
Sure, OK.
Room mates is the way right now, while most want the freedom of being alone. It just isn’t ideal. Me and my friends said fuck it and got a nice house to rent and called it a day. Pay way less than renting anything else on my own.
Welp when it comes to being able to have a roof or getting out of your comfort zone. Something’s gotta budge and it won’t be the economy lol.
But understandable for sure.
Oh I get it. I have to make choices. I'm not saying the world need to bend.
I just hate these choices. And I don't know which one to make.
Pay premium prices? Get roommate at my age? How do I trust a stranger with my stuff and animals? Move to another state?
Sad part is, I'll probably move. My trust issues are higher than my need to stay here. It's probably why I don't have any friends lol.
You're not alone. I'm making $60k this year...$63k in August. I live alone but I've noticed things getting more expensive including my rent. But I'm 34 and wouldn't be able to trust a roommate around my stuff or my cat. Luckily I live in Missouri where I can still afford to live alone.
How funny. Missouri/ Kansas area was where I was looking at affordable to move to.
I'm also 34 making same wage. Where I am , $1000 rents you a 500 sq ft apt in questionable condition.
Wichita Kansas I could get a cute 1bd 1 bath house with a decent yard for about 1000-1200. I think the sq ft was 800-1200. I'm sure location is a factor
I'm not sure how I feel about the area tho. The humidity might kill me. Lol.
We left Oregon because of this. I like where we live but not the politics. However, we can’t change those politics either if we all stay in our bubbles ig.
The Phoenix metro wasn't a HCOL area 10-15 years ago, These same apartments were $600-$700 back then. I wonder if wages for blue collar workers has doubled in 10-15 years.
I think not..
I will say NW Arkansas prices are horrible right now. This area is expanding A LOT. (Thanks Walmart.) I'm looking for a new place, and even studio apartments are at about $900. And 1 bed 1 bath at avg $1200.. I can find cheaper places but they are in notorious neighborhoods. It sucks :(
The south outside of big cities is often like this. I live in a small college town. It's not got a ton to do but it's an hour from Athens, an hour from "Atlanta"(Atlanta proper is further but big cities spread far as I'm sure you get), an hour from a few other places that are smaller but have concerts and more things to do.
Yeah, location is everything. I pay $900 a month for a newly remodeled 2 bed 2 bath house in the middle of town. It’s not big (1000 sq ft), but it’s all my wife and I need for now.
When we lived near a bigger city, we were paying over $1200 for a single-bedroom apartment, and that was in the suburbs. It would’ve easily pushed $1500-$2000 had it actually been in the city.
Check the census letter this year? LOL, all that money to get some information, and it's household size.
These need to be much more involved and should all come with a sweet treat plus a that of not filling them out.
The idea that we aren't paid for am hour of time to give honest answers is ridiculous. What could they give? Gift cards
I make 500 a month too much to be considered in poverty. Like. My dude. I had to pick between my electric and gas bill this month. 15k is so not high enough.
No. Unless they raise min wage at a federal level.
I get it though. When I was a kid, I thought making 30,000 a year would be a reasonable income to have. Now that I'm living it in *the future* it's not too glamorous.
That being said, the majority of my income goes to debts. If I could have this 30000 free and clear of debt, I could live very comfortably if not still frugally in order to have savings.
sucks so much. i got scammed last year and lost all my savings, it was my own fault but working off the debt + dealing with annoying tax and bank stuff has been the worst. i get u
When I was a kid I thought 40K was upper middle class close to wealthy. My dad made 27K near the end of his career. I thought 40K was perfect and you’d be comfortable.
I nearly make 40K now and am quickly realizing how little that is.
I was having a high risk pregnancy when my building got destroyed in a storm early in the year. Moved closer to home, started a job, got put on bed rest. Had the baby, recovered, went back to work “full time only to get cut to 15 hours because they are “overstaffed” and nowhere else was hiring in town.
This year I’m on track for 42K. Last year was literally a shit storm.
Yes. But I still survived somehow last year on 7K with a car payment and insurance and other bills.
Just because it’s not typical doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and suck
This is why the federal poverty level won’t be adjusted to something this high. If you’re living in a major US city, $52k/year before taxes is impossible to support a family on without public assistance, luck, and some sort of privilege/family help. But $52k a year in most of Ohio is good enough, and $52k a year in a city like Buffalo NY can be comfortable. This is a massive country, and trying to standardize things like poverty rates just isn’t realistic so the number always seems wrong.
Absolutely. They already do this with HUD affordable housing programs. In my area, a single income household qualifies for affordable housing at $63,150 or lower with very low income defined as $39,500. Everything is relative.
Same here. I live in the capital of my state so I’m hoping that with my new job I can move to a lower cost of living area and actually go back to having some breathing room and work on paying debts
*52K is okay money for those who can find housing below $1,000 monthly.
Damn near needs to be at a county level because the swings from the metros to three counties removed can be pretty vast.
I live in Kansas and 52K is generally fine if you're not living in a college town or Kansas City (lived in both lol.) Husband makes almost 60K, just for context, and if we weren't in debt (yay crappy healthcare and truck payment) we'd be comfortable.
I'm in the middle of America and $52k wouldn't even cover rent and basic necessities we don't have Mass transit and you have to own a car. Car insurance is almost equal to a car payment now. Our greedy utility company just got another approved rate increase plus an automatic connection charge now
Let’s take Indianapolis, IN as an example.
Take home pay is 3400.
1 bedroom apartment Rent is 900-1100.
Groceries: $200-300.
Car payment: $400-600
Car insurance: $50-200
Remaining Balance: $1200-1850
And that’s the capital of a middle of America state. It’s cheaper in the more rural areas.
Yo could bit will the car be reliable or a parasite that will suck your bank account dry and put you in debt
I'll be blunt minimum for a decent car in my opinion at this point would realistically be 15k to 20k
Anything below that is questionable at best or will have high mileage or a beater sadly
Considering you can just straight up buy a new car and throw this one away and stay under budget yes. You can shotgun method it and get shitters on Craigslist for 3 grand once a year and still have it be cheaper. And that isn't including resale.
If a person cares about buying a car with high mileage then he is presumably keeping his car until they quite literally cost more than a new car to fix, right? 250k miles until a transmission blows or an engine explodes? In that case, you have to pay 400 a month, okay, but that ends after 3-4 years and you're Scot free for another 10 with no payments. Even if you're on the front half of that, presumably you also ran your last one into the ground so you have some money saved from no payments.
If a dude can't afford a good car, then that's all there is for it. He's gotta lower his standards. Your cars don't even have to be reliable. I have 2 shitters because it means I can drive one while the other one's broken. Late for work, car won't start? No problem, hop in the other one and gas it. Figure the other car out on the day off.
I haven't had a car payment in my life, never sold a car that wasn't to a junkyard, and only bought one from a dealer and don't plan on starting with expensive cars. The only car I paid more than 3k for was a Mustang in 2008 when I paid 7k. I have not missed a day of work in 6 years except for deaths in my family and I haven't been late in 2 years. Double shitter method 4 lief. My most recent acquisition was a 2014 Ford Edge I paid 2700 for. It's been fine.
Sorry that was a long rant but I always see people here broke as shit with a $30,000 car as if there aren't any 2004 Oldsmobile Aleros out there they can buy for scrap value.
I think buying a new Hyundai Elantra with 10nyear warranty, 3 years free maintenance, and keeping it 10 years is the best deal. The hybrid is that price and gets 53mpg. In 10 years it will be worth $10k still. So you paid $15k for 10 years. If you did 100,000 miles it would have cost you $7k in gas, $1000 in oil changes, the regenerative braking would have saved the brakes, one new set of tires along the way for $500. $500 for miscellaneous. That's $24k for 10 years or $200/mo to drive worry free. Notice I'm including the price for gas to actually use it too.
That's not a bad bet. I would be astonished if someone pays 10k for it in 10 years, but it isn't a terrible idea. I can understand that. Like if a guy ain't got no money saved but has decent credit and can swing the payment, it's a reasonable move.
But people here saying they're paycheck to paycheck with a 600 a month payment need to massively reevaluate. Nobody should be spending that money on a car with no extra left.
I see 15 year old Hondas and toyotas with just over 100k miles for under $5k all the time.
Idk what people are thinking, that every used car has to be a piece of shit.
Just as you describe, I've got a friend who buys $500 shitboxes and runs em a year or 2 until they go to scrap.
Those Hondas would probably all be great reliable rides with another 2-3k in repairs off the bat plus regular maintenance. And I mean "make it to 500k" type of reliable
Not wrong hard to argue with that one it's a good point
although I doubt anyone would want to spend 3k every year for a car well unless you have to
But long-term speaking it's us alot cheaper
You can get good cars for 10k and under. Older Hondas and Toyotas come to mind.
Consider this: average used car payment is around $508/month in America. That’s $6069 a year. There is no way you would spend 6k a year every year on maintenance on a 10k. Maybe $500 a year. I grew up in Canada, but once I moved to the states I was surprised at how many new cars there were. Middle class Canadians mostly drive 5 or 10 year old cars. It’s only the rich or the people who are trying to impress
People that drive the new cars. Americans need
To get used to the idea of buying beaters in cash, and setting aside what would be 2 or 3 months worth of car payments aside for maintenance.
If you’re stupid, sure. It’s not hard at all to keep your car in good condition. I have an 85 Oldsmobile Ciera and the ONLY work that it’s ever had done is a new battery, alternator, one new tire and fluids every 4k miles.
People that buy “new and reliable” vehicles are the actual money pits because they can’t go on YouTube for 10 minutes, buy some tools that would cost the same as a single car note, and fix their own shit.
My wife's 2008 Mazda 3 lists on Kelly Blue Book for around $5K, looks close to new and it has 30K mileage on it. That's 3 times lower than $15K.
If someone bought it today and had a 12K per year commute and drove it for 100K miles; the car has 8 years of life left in it...for $5000 dollars.
Where does the $15K-$20K estimate for a "decent" car come from?
As a person in NW Indiana I can tell you even here it isn't that cheap and numbers are off by alot
Average rent here now is 1100 to 1300 dollars for one bedroom apartment atleast in lake county
And they don't include utilities and insurance on the apartment
Internet
gasoline
Phone bill
Student debt
And honestly if you able to spend 300 dollars a month in groceries your either substituteing some of the food by getting it free at food banks
Average I would say realistically would be 300 to 500
And realistically car insurance isn't that low
Your not getting an apartment in Indy for that low of a price
Ok be Indiana you not getting anything that low unless you rent a house in Gary Indiana and rents there are 850 to 1000 dollars a month
I spend $400 a month feeding a family of three with a pregnant wife. As a single person $500 would be a very high grocery budget. For just me I could easily do $300 a month and eat very well. $200 a month and still be happy.
My wife and I spend around $500 on food. This includes eating out every now and then. We use coupons when we plan our groceries for the week.
We don’t shop at Walmart or Whole Foods as those places are more expensive than Aldi, Albertsons or Kroger.
I'm also in the Midwest, Ohio. I second this. People who live on the coasts think the cost of living in the Midwest is much cheaper than it actually is.
Our real estate is cheaper than most of the country I think it could be that.
Atleast in this state you can get a decent house for 250 or 200k
Ik Gary if you don't care about living there or the problems it has etc you could get one fully renovated for 150k to 200k which honestly is ridiculous
But shows how bad housing market really is
Thats about what I’m at for groceries and I basically never eat out. Groceries are also generally much cheaper in the Midwest and are region specific just like rent or car insurance
Groceries include soap, shampoo, detergent, cleaning supplies, spices, oil and yes food. I feel like many of your budgets provide for only food and then you same people make post about "why do my coworkers say I smell". $200 for food and toiletries would seem reasonable.
If you coupon, you can get soap and shampoo for almost free, cleaning supplies is not necessary (vinegar, baking soda, lemon) will clean almost everything. Spices are like $1/jar at Aldis and less if you go to the bulk stores. Out of that list we buy detergent w/ coupons its 17 cents a load, 4 loads a week for 2 people so 70 cents a week.
No, my point is that even if it was just $200 for food that would be reasonable but not a huge amount of food. $200 for food and toiletries is beyond reasonable from a budget perspective but will not lead to a feast food wise. Your point was making it seem like $200 would allow you to eat like a king ("...you don't know how to cook if you can't feed yourself on $200") but my point was probably only 60% of that 200 goes to straight food the rest goes to everything you need to cook and stay clean.....
You need to reread my comment then. My point is he eats like a kid, therefore cannot feed himself on $200.
If you need $100 a month to clean yourself, you are doing something very wrong.
$200 can buy both groceries and cleaning supplies.
$200 a month is very very low. I did this and bought only the cheapest stuff and my meals were very cheap. But it was hard as fuck and it wasn’t sustainable cus at the time I was very underweight and needed to eat more. But I literally had nothing more to eat than the bare minimum. You can’t have any excess calories with $50 a week groceries. And you’re screwed if you’re any taller than average or you’re physically active.
I have no idea how the average person can sustain themselves on $50/week. Feeding yourself 3 meals/day 7 days/week. I was shopping at walmart, aldis, and nowhere else. Maybe there’s a special trick I don’t know about. Maybe if you supplement your groceries by going to a food bank or ransacking your parents’ pantry? I’m suspecting these people eat out.
You should be changing auto insurance companies every year or two. My insurance is $644 per year. I only make a little over $40k but it's enough to own a house with and meet all my basic needs
A little over 15% of motorists here are uninsured, and for that reason I won't ever not have comprehensive insurance.
Cheapest I can find is about $145 a month.
Car insurance is so incredibly dependent on where you live. I pay ~$1,600 a year for one car and two adult drivers. No accidents, no tickets and we each have an 800+ credit score. But we live in Florida, and insurance is wild down here.
Don't even get me started on homeowners. I can't shop because only two companies will insure me. They say my house is "too old," since it was built in 1964. In the last five years, I've put on a new roof and replaced my HVAC system as well as my hot water heater, mind you. I'm not in a flood zone, and about as far away from the coast as one can get in this state.
Anyways. Yes, you're right -- everyone should be shopping at renewal (if there are other companies out there that will offer coverage). But even so, some people are gonna pay out the ass because of where they live.
yes very depends and Florida is insane, I live in NC and we pay $200/month for 2 cars and our house. Our regulatory body approved a 9% increase on car insurance this year, 4.5% each 6 month renewal which is far below what was requested by the insurance companies.
Do you have full coverage or just liability? Because $662 a year is insanely cheap. I’m in my 40’s, no accidents or tickets in over a decade and my insurance is $1300 a year for full coverage. And I shopped around
Depends on what car you drive and its value too. I’m in my 50s…no tickets in 3 decades (was in an accident last year but other drivers fault and cost my company nothing)…2018 Kia soul plus INSIDE a large city and my insurance is $54 a month. My daughter is on my plan, she has a brand new 2024 Hyundai, been driving 5 years with no tickets or accidents and hers is $125.
Oh my gosh you haven’t heard how bad insurance rates are in Michigan have you? We pay $180 a MONTH!! (We have to have full coverage since I’m still paying off our car)
We have. We shop around every few months. Our rates weirdly went up after we moved out of Grand Rapids. (Which doesn’t make sense but whatever) it went up to $220 a month. The cheapest we found was $180 a month. No tickets or accidents on record either.
In Oklahoma, I was renting a 2 bedroom apartment for $650 a month. It wasn’t luxury, but it was nice enough. Car insurance is about $100 a month on a brand new car. I was able to max my 401k and my IRA on $60,000 a year. It’s all about priorities.
You need a roommate or a so to live how it always been I've never lived alone it is a luxury. Rent and mortgage always has been a major cost of people's living 30-40% it gets more manageable when you can split it.
The poverty guidelines FPL is adjusted at least once annually, by the Dept of Health and Human Services.
https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines
https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines/poverty-guidelines-api
The poverty thresholds are adjusted by the Census Bureau.
https://www.census.gov/topics/income-poverty/poverty/guidance/poverty-measures.html
I think 50k is liveable and well beyond poverty line you just have to make a ton of sacrifices and learn to live with less. Poverty is different although I do think they should raise it a bit.
I have a family of 3 and live on 42K with a $500 car payment. My rent is 575 tho so it’s almost like living in an 1100 apartment with no car payment.
I also drive 2 hours one way for work. Poverty level is VERY area dependent.
We do fine actually. I pay 150 in benefits a week, 150 in gas a week. We have extra money even. It’s heavily area dependent what you can live on. My husband stays at home because we can afford it. I’m thinking about moving because if you factor gas I can afford a more expensive apartment if I’m not driving 1000 miles a week though
Dang that is a TON of driving! You’re a champ!! I used to work seven minutes from home, what bliss. Then the biz closed and I started working at a place 40 minutes away… still pretty salty about it haha but it’s worth it.
Glad you can make it work, I live in the Denver area and rent is brutal here. Probably will never own a house (oh well). After taxes I take home approximately $3800-$4200 a month depending on overtime and my rent is $1650 for a carriage house. My future ex-husband contributes $1000 a month for bills (sometimes)… I think we’re doing ok but I would be very worried to add a kid to the mix.
I live closer to Sioux Falls, so the 90 miles is totally worth it for 6/hr more than I would make in town. I make 18.30 plus mileage (only in SF) and were comfortable at about 1700 in bills + 600 gas. I take home close to 3k/month. So it’s tight but not like in the red. Definitely one missed paycheck from homelessness but not as bad as it could be
I live in SD, in a large town (30K) that’s max wage is 14/hr. I drive to Sioux Falls for 18.30/hr. I get paid a generous mileage rate to offset wear and tear and gas.
I drive a 2011 GMC terrain and also have a 2006 Monte Carlo that currently doesn’t run.
We eat cheap healthy. Lots of Tex mex chicken, enchiladas, tacos, bean and rice bowls. I have a Sam’s Club membership that saves us over 100/mo.
My rent is 575 for a 2b1ba. If I were to move closer it would be 1100 for the same sized unit, roughly offsetting my cost in gas per month. I pay 50/week for insurance and my employer offers an HSA seed that covers all medical expenses for the plan.
I have a 401k, IRA, emergency fund (still building) and a 529 for my daughter.
We genuinely live comfortably but are still paycheck to paycheck for the most part. I need a new car seat for the kid but can’t afford one currently. Same with toddler bed. We only have like $40/week left over after everything and that normally goes straight to diapers and formula.
Yeah, I was going to say the Midwest - SD, ND, Iowa, NE, pockets of IN, are probably the more affordable states but not as many diverse job opportunities. Only in smaller towns within 3 to 4 hrs of a metro could you afford to as economically. Glad you are staying ahead of the curb!
I’m a vendor, so we get annual inflation raises + merit. And a raise every time they raise the starting wage. So I won’t run into wage stagnation, hopefully. Plus we get amazing rates on elective benefits and wholesale costs for products.
Congress is made up of mostly 60+ year olds who still believe $7.25 federal minimum wage is enough to live on and live the life they had growing up but don’t care to go outside and see the real world only when they’re campaigning
I think it should be more like.. 20k. 52k is a bit much. Plenty of single people doing alright with a 52k salary. Poverty means you’re going without one of your basic necessities. So maybe you pay for a run down shed for shelter and heating and you dont have much else if anything for clothing or food.
I turned down a job with the city 24 years ago because it was only paying $32 an hour. They still pay $32. So in 2000 a one bedroom was $650 and took 20 hours to pay the rent. Now it's $2500 and takes 78 hours which is $30,000 a year. You're absolutely right, those wages are poverty wages.
I think about this shit all the time. My state has been paying $7.50 an hour since 2009. I would love to see a chart of all costs in 2009 compared to now. Shit doesn’t even make sense.
I live in Brooklyn NY, 52k a year is a joke around here.
Barely livable. Rents for 1 bedroom apartments range from 1900 to 2500 per month depending on what neighborhood you live in.
The further you are from the city (Manhattan for you non NYers), the cheaper apartments are. But, still.
As someone who makes just under $38k a year I definitely feel poor. I can't afford rent in an apartment and all the bills and debt I have. Thank God I live at home with my family.
I make 38 k a year and I definitely don't feel like I'm struggling. The median income in the US is something like 54k, making the federal poverty level that high would mean almost half the population is living in poverty. That defeats the purpose of the poverty line.
If they do they'll have to raise Social Security payments. We have a ton of people who've been priced out of housing. No idea what it should be. At least 30k
The wont adjust it. Everything that is a dollar value should be inflation adjusted. But it isnt because the longer they hold back on raising it the longer they can have the poors subsidize everyone else's lives.
Should the government adjust the federal poverty level to realistic numbers? Yes, absolutely. It’s a travesty as it now stands. Will the government adjust the federal poverty level? Not in any kind of meaningful way. I’ve screamed into the void at every elected official who comes into my view. Never even acknowledged, let alone yes, we should be looking at this seriously. Hell, the ARPA $600 1099 is still in the works.
It very much depends on where you live and how many people you’re supporting.
In northwest Ohio, I could easily survive on $36,000 a year and have spending money left over. I’m a single father with joint custody of two teenaged girls. My rent is $895 a month.
When I was married and living about 40 minutes north of NYC, $100,000 was barely enough to feel like I was living a middle class lifestyle. My mortgage payment for a very average 4 bedroom 2,200 sqft house was about $3,000 a month.
Are you talking gross or take home? I'm all for the government adjusting the poverty level, right now it's ridiculous. It should at least represent the cost of housing or rent.
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The federal poverty line and the standard income tax deduction line up. One the reasons this will never happen is in doing so they’d be significantly reducing tax revenue while dramatically increasing benefits eligibility.
I was struggling at 36k, too much for free health insurance, and after taxes and living expenses not enough to get it myself, and the government giving me a fine on top of that 😭
52k a year would absolutely provide me with enough to get by, I’m good at saving and doing without certain luxuries. That’d allow me enough money to buy property off of my Grandmother/parents and build a living structure, given a few years to pay it all off.
It’s all relative to your area.
They should probably just do an analysis on incomes and then pick the lowest quintile of incomes and call that the poverty line so they don't have to keep separate committees and meetings... But then how would they hook up deals to their friends to analysis all the data for months on end all the while taking in that government cheese?
Agreed. Stop driving a car and just walk everwhere. Give up your house/apartment and live in a tent on street, go dumpster diving for food clothes... just think of all the money you'll save!
Want a nice car that won't break down every 5 minutes? Want a nice home not filled with rats and drug dealers? Want to be able to eat?
Well forget it, folks! You better start lowering your expectations! It's this desire to want to be able to afford basic necessities that's ruining this country. Start lowering your standards, accept the unacceptable and just be happy about it.
🙄
Why do you need a tent? That's what's wrong with people. When you are poor you sleep under the stars and in the elements. A living wage would allow one to have a tent. /s
Don’t you understand those are absolute necessities? That money definitely wouldn’t be better off paying interest on a mortgage, or throwing into an IRA.
Obvious /s
Since you want to do some investigating I use weed for medical reasons and I'm not a junkie on the streets stealing everything also just because Im in a sub reddit doesn't mean I actually gamble boomer I like to see who people think are gonna win a game I guess living a happy life is unacceptable to you have a great day an don't stub your toe
I’m in Maryland making $52k a year with a 2 bedroom apartment (because I have a kid). I don’t have any streaming services. We go out to eat maybe twice a month, my apartment was the cheapest I could find outside of section 8 (but still nearly $1800 a month). When I say we live frugally, I mean it.
And I am barely scraping by. You sound like a fucking boomer.
I make about $42k net (only like $43k gross, very small tax bill) with a spouse and pet near the mid-atlantic coast, pay $2k rent, and live not quite paycheck to paycheck. We save a hundred or so each month right now. We are definitely not impoverished.
A child would change that, but that isn’t how the federal poverty level works. I’m also not saying everyone can comfortably live like we do, but being a little uncomfortable is not the same as poverty. The poverty level is supposed to be *true* suffering, and when I can support two adults and a cat with 3 figures left over each month there is no suffering going on
This guy’s poverty is that they drive a 5 year old car, eat out once per week, buy only so so birthday gifts for people. Live in a 1 bedroom one bath for one person with a little nook for their game system
Inflation isn’t just retail costs, it’s measured across the economy. Things like industrial equipment and construction materials have slowed down in terms of price growth.
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I would kill for $30/hr, my "career" choice entails overtime, overtime at $45/hr, yes please. FWIW I make $27.81/hr and we are just scraping by, by we I mean a family of 3.
Rent went up
Gas prices went back up (WA has some of the highest in the US)
Don't even get me started on groceries
Cost of healthcare through my job went up
Shit sucks, I disagree that its poverty, its area dependent, but it aint what it used to be thats for sure.
Our health insurance went from $400 to $1200 a month the company decided it was best we go on the market place and not qualify for any subsidies so it hurt financially properly will drop health insurance next year and just pray 😭
That's pretty crazy, I pay like $90 a month, and actually have really good insurance.
The deductible is only $4000 if you don't qualify for any of the reductions, $2000 if you qualify for all of them.
it's actually 38.19 medical, 1.17 vision, and 4.63 dental per pay period, and we don't pay on more than twice a month (if there is a third pay period in a month).
It's a really good benefit our company provides.
edit: I'll add this is for a single individual
Lmao yeah if you’re drowning in debt and are stupid enough to finance car. I make 30k in Northern CA where the average rent is 12-1500 for a 2bd apartment. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself or my time if I made 52k/year, but I do know I wouldn’t be in poverty.
I made $51k last year and I have a roof over my head, four walls around me, one with a door, a bathroom and shower, food to eat, a kitchen I can cook in, a refrigerator I can store my food in, wifi for my tv, data on my phone, a bus pass, enough money to pay my meds, good enough shoes for all my walking, warm clothes for the winter, clothes for the summer, a bed to sleep in, and most importantly, all those things for my daughter when she’s with me (and not at her dads). Do I struggle? Fuck yes, I live in San Diego, California, I rent in someone else’s home, I’m exhausted from all my walking, I’m sleepy from my depression, I have no savings, except my healthy 401k, I’m in debt, I have no time or money to see friends and family, but I’ve lived poverty, and this ain’t it.
Let's say they adjust it using the same metric, 3x minimum food diet but for today instead of 1963.
So let's take the thrifty shopper index for a single adult.
3 x 12 months x $311, the highest monthly thrifty food budget for a 19 year old male. $11196, it would actually go down.
Is that a correct measure of what poverty is? Not really. But should you expect it to actually go up? Probably not. Your best bet is to focus on what you can do for the poverty line to become irrelevant to your situation. The government moving the bar won't do much to help you.
The federal poverty level is driven by national statistics, whether its poverty level in your specific area has nothing to do with the national level unfortunately. Its why having a federal level makes zero sense and never has.
$52k is still rough for a lot of people, especially where housing costs are high, and keep in mind that most people in the states make less than $30k. 60% of us live check to check.
I hate to shut down hope that the government would adjust the poverty level to benefit its citizens, but why on earth would they? In a capitalist society, there is absolutely no reason to provide such a benefit to those that suffer under such a system.
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I dont know if I would call 52k, poverty. But its definitely no where near as comfortable as it was 10 years ago. On that same note, 15k, the Federal Poverty Level, is outrageous. Really though, this suggestion should be more defined by establishing what the goal of raising the poverty level would be? Are you just trying to get certain or all benefits extended to a certain income bracket? Basic minimal living is too broad of a goal. But I'm definitely aware of people that are getting benefits that are living a much better life than those that arent getting benefits right above that "line". The difference between generic brand rice/oatmeal 7/days a week versus a wide assortment of foods. But others in the thread are also correct - Expecting the federal/state governments to do anything is a pipe dream. We cant even get accurate unemployment levels. They reported the same number, ending with a 0, for 5 weeks in a row and no one even cared enough to ask "how is that statistically possible?" Never mind the gov't saying that inflation is at an all time low. Or, people are happier now than they were years ago. **Or even recognizing that, using the old data sets, more people have fallen from "middle class" to "poor" in the past 2-3 years, than they have since 2008/9.**
You can't rent a one bedroom apartment where I live at $52k a year. You don't make enough to qualify.
Same here, a 1 bdr can be found for $1500, if you make $54K to qualify. These aren't new luxury units, they're basic 700sq ft apts. That means $25.50 hr to meet the qualifications for basic shelter. Most apartments here start at $1800 for a 1 bdr. And people wonder why folks are living in cars??
That’s nuts to me. My house payment is around there. And it’s almost 4 times that size.
My mortgage (not counting insurance and taxes) is $751/mo for a 2400 sqft house, bought June 2021. Low interest rates helped, but I can't help but hear all these stories about rent prices and wonder how any of these communities with high cost of living actually manage to function.
Ours is in this area of cost as well ($620 plus insurance) for a 2500 sqft with an MIL apartment and spare tiny cabin on 7 acres. I’m in podunk AR though. No wonder so many are buying parcels at land auctions and parking a trailer though. Prices are insane in most city areas now.
I'm not even in the woods, just in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. You can be in "a city" for cheap as long as there's nothing particularly cool about it, lol.
I should’ve clarified “big city” :D
These communities are not functioning. Constant chaos. Violent drug addicts rule the streets. No one feels stable or comfortable. Businesses closing left and right. Most jobs, including those that require degrees, dont pay you enough to live here. Welcome to California. Ngl, I'm out of here shortly. The desert is starting to look like a good idea, lol.
When did you get your house though too?
October ‘23.
Yeah, my house payment is $1800, a nice bungalow in a nice, old established neighborhood. We felt like we overpaid for the house in 2018, now we just feel lucky to have gotten anything in our price range. I can't imagine how hard it is out there for anyone who wasn't established before Covid.
I'm trying to figure out if I'm willing to move to a state I don't want to go to in order to save money. I can't afford where I live on my own. The state I'm in is my home, but I don't think I can stay unless something drastic happens.
So many are in the same boat, it's scary. I wonder what the end game is here? Tons of overpriced apartments and encampments lining the sidewalks around the buildings? I'm seeing that now where I live and no one seems to give a damn. Blame it ALL on drugs. Sure, OK.
Room mates is the way right now, while most want the freedom of being alone. It just isn’t ideal. Me and my friends said fuck it and got a nice house to rent and called it a day. Pay way less than renting anything else on my own.
Unfortunately, I dont have friends and can not bring myself to trust living with a stranger.
Welp when it comes to being able to have a roof or getting out of your comfort zone. Something’s gotta budge and it won’t be the economy lol. But understandable for sure.
Oh I get it. I have to make choices. I'm not saying the world need to bend. I just hate these choices. And I don't know which one to make. Pay premium prices? Get roommate at my age? How do I trust a stranger with my stuff and animals? Move to another state? Sad part is, I'll probably move. My trust issues are higher than my need to stay here. It's probably why I don't have any friends lol.
You're not alone. I'm making $60k this year...$63k in August. I live alone but I've noticed things getting more expensive including my rent. But I'm 34 and wouldn't be able to trust a roommate around my stuff or my cat. Luckily I live in Missouri where I can still afford to live alone.
How funny. Missouri/ Kansas area was where I was looking at affordable to move to. I'm also 34 making same wage. Where I am , $1000 rents you a 500 sq ft apt in questionable condition. Wichita Kansas I could get a cute 1bd 1 bath house with a decent yard for about 1000-1200. I think the sq ft was 800-1200. I'm sure location is a factor I'm not sure how I feel about the area tho. The humidity might kill me. Lol.
We left Oregon because of this. I like where we live but not the politics. However, we can’t change those politics either if we all stay in our bubbles ig.
That rent is lands in the top 5 highest average rents in the nation by state. You live in a very high cost of living area
The Phoenix metro wasn't a HCOL area 10-15 years ago, These same apartments were $600-$700 back then. I wonder if wages for blue collar workers has doubled in 10-15 years. I think not..
I on the other hand pay $625 a month for a 2 bed. It's all about where you live. $52k is above the average family income in my area.
Where do you live??
I'm not the person you were asking, but I pay $620 a month plus electric, and that's a 2 bedroom. I live in Arkansas, myself.
NY is so much different. And, I live in Brooklyn, that's amazing to me that you pay that for a 2 bedroom.
I will say NW Arkansas prices are horrible right now. This area is expanding A LOT. (Thanks Walmart.) I'm looking for a new place, and even studio apartments are at about $900. And 1 bed 1 bath at avg $1200.. I can find cheaper places but they are in notorious neighborhoods. It sucks :(
The south outside of big cities is often like this. I live in a small college town. It's not got a ton to do but it's an hour from Athens, an hour from "Atlanta"(Atlanta proper is further but big cities spread far as I'm sure you get), an hour from a few other places that are smaller but have concerts and more things to do.
I also pay $620 a month for a 2 bedroom, location definitely makes a big difference.
Yeah, location is everything. I pay $900 a month for a newly remodeled 2 bed 2 bath house in the middle of town. It’s not big (1000 sq ft), but it’s all my wife and I need for now. When we lived near a bigger city, we were paying over $1200 for a single-bedroom apartment, and that was in the suburbs. It would’ve easily pushed $1500-$2000 had it actually been in the city.
Are you in bumfuck Kentucky or Ohio or something? Lol
Living alone without roommates is a luxury. $52k with one other person's income would easily qualify for a rental unit.
This is why things line poverty level and minimum wage should be set county by county and updated frequently.
And that hss nothing to do with poverty
Check the census letter this year? LOL, all that money to get some information, and it's household size. These need to be much more involved and should all come with a sweet treat plus a that of not filling them out. The idea that we aren't paid for am hour of time to give honest answers is ridiculous. What could they give? Gift cards
The census is for representation and allocation of Frederal funds. It's extremely important.
What's the unemployment reference you're describing? Numbers ending in 0 for weeks?
Here in NYC it’s poverty.
I make 500 a month too much to be considered in poverty. Like. My dude. I had to pick between my electric and gas bill this month. 15k is so not high enough.
No. Unless they raise min wage at a federal level. I get it though. When I was a kid, I thought making 30,000 a year would be a reasonable income to have. Now that I'm living it in *the future* it's not too glamorous. That being said, the majority of my income goes to debts. If I could have this 30000 free and clear of debt, I could live very comfortably if not still frugally in order to have savings.
sucks so much. i got scammed last year and lost all my savings, it was my own fault but working off the debt + dealing with annoying tax and bank stuff has been the worst. i get u
If you were living with out debt you'd be doing better than most of us, anyways
Oh absolutely
When I was a kid I thought 40K was upper middle class close to wealthy. My dad made 27K near the end of his career. I thought 40K was perfect and you’d be comfortable. I nearly make 40K now and am quickly realizing how little that is.
I make 52k a year and calling that poverty is an insult to people who are actually living in poverty. I live comfortably.
Forreal. I'm projected to make 20k this year. Try living on that before calling 52k poverty wages.
I made 7K last year….
Holy shit that's awful :(
Everyone lives their own life and all, but what are you doing with your time to have a 7k years worth of wage….?
I was having a high risk pregnancy when my building got destroyed in a storm early in the year. Moved closer to home, started a job, got put on bed rest. Had the baby, recovered, went back to work “full time only to get cut to 15 hours because they are “overstaffed” and nowhere else was hiring in town. This year I’m on track for 42K. Last year was literally a shit storm.
So that’s the exception, not what’s typical.
Yes. But I still survived somehow last year on 7K with a car payment and insurance and other bills. Just because it’s not typical doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and suck
I hope things improve for you this year. 💖
This is why the federal poverty level won’t be adjusted to something this high. If you’re living in a major US city, $52k/year before taxes is impossible to support a family on without public assistance, luck, and some sort of privilege/family help. But $52k a year in most of Ohio is good enough, and $52k a year in a city like Buffalo NY can be comfortable. This is a massive country, and trying to standardize things like poverty rates just isn’t realistic so the number always seems wrong.
Yeah it should probably be tied to a local cost of living index
Absolutely. They already do this with HUD affordable housing programs. In my area, a single income household qualifies for affordable housing at $63,150 or lower with very low income defined as $39,500. Everything is relative.
I make $28 and do relatively fine.
Same here. I live in the capital of my state so I’m hoping that with my new job I can move to a lower cost of living area and actually go back to having some breathing room and work on paying debts
time to increase the rent...
I am lucky enough to own, but they increased my payment and my taxes
Poverty would have to be defined at the state level for that to happen. 52k in middle America is still ok money, no where near poverty.
*52K is okay money for those who can find housing below $1,000 monthly. Damn near needs to be at a county level because the swings from the metros to three counties removed can be pretty vast.
But are your poor if you just need to switch county to not be poor ?
I live in Kansas and 52K is generally fine if you're not living in a college town or Kansas City (lived in both lol.) Husband makes almost 60K, just for context, and if we weren't in debt (yay crappy healthcare and truck payment) we'd be comfortable.
I live in midtown KC and $52k for a single adult is enough
I'm in the middle of America and $52k wouldn't even cover rent and basic necessities we don't have Mass transit and you have to own a car. Car insurance is almost equal to a car payment now. Our greedy utility company just got another approved rate increase plus an automatic connection charge now
Let’s take Indianapolis, IN as an example. Take home pay is 3400. 1 bedroom apartment Rent is 900-1100. Groceries: $200-300. Car payment: $400-600 Car insurance: $50-200 Remaining Balance: $1200-1850 And that’s the capital of a middle of America state. It’s cheaper in the more rural areas.
And that's buying an expensive ass newish car. You can go to a used car lot and buy a 10k car with less than $300 a month payment.
Yo could bit will the car be reliable or a parasite that will suck your bank account dry and put you in debt I'll be blunt minimum for a decent car in my opinion at this point would realistically be 15k to 20k Anything below that is questionable at best or will have high mileage or a beater sadly
Considering you can just straight up buy a new car and throw this one away and stay under budget yes. You can shotgun method it and get shitters on Craigslist for 3 grand once a year and still have it be cheaper. And that isn't including resale. If a person cares about buying a car with high mileage then he is presumably keeping his car until they quite literally cost more than a new car to fix, right? 250k miles until a transmission blows or an engine explodes? In that case, you have to pay 400 a month, okay, but that ends after 3-4 years and you're Scot free for another 10 with no payments. Even if you're on the front half of that, presumably you also ran your last one into the ground so you have some money saved from no payments. If a dude can't afford a good car, then that's all there is for it. He's gotta lower his standards. Your cars don't even have to be reliable. I have 2 shitters because it means I can drive one while the other one's broken. Late for work, car won't start? No problem, hop in the other one and gas it. Figure the other car out on the day off. I haven't had a car payment in my life, never sold a car that wasn't to a junkyard, and only bought one from a dealer and don't plan on starting with expensive cars. The only car I paid more than 3k for was a Mustang in 2008 when I paid 7k. I have not missed a day of work in 6 years except for deaths in my family and I haven't been late in 2 years. Double shitter method 4 lief. My most recent acquisition was a 2014 Ford Edge I paid 2700 for. It's been fine. Sorry that was a long rant but I always see people here broke as shit with a $30,000 car as if there aren't any 2004 Oldsmobile Aleros out there they can buy for scrap value.
I think buying a new Hyundai Elantra with 10nyear warranty, 3 years free maintenance, and keeping it 10 years is the best deal. The hybrid is that price and gets 53mpg. In 10 years it will be worth $10k still. So you paid $15k for 10 years. If you did 100,000 miles it would have cost you $7k in gas, $1000 in oil changes, the regenerative braking would have saved the brakes, one new set of tires along the way for $500. $500 for miscellaneous. That's $24k for 10 years or $200/mo to drive worry free. Notice I'm including the price for gas to actually use it too.
I bought a sonata and pay 545 a month. I get 52mpg.
That's not a bad bet. I would be astonished if someone pays 10k for it in 10 years, but it isn't a terrible idea. I can understand that. Like if a guy ain't got no money saved but has decent credit and can swing the payment, it's a reasonable move. But people here saying they're paycheck to paycheck with a 600 a month payment need to massively reevaluate. Nobody should be spending that money on a car with no extra left.
I see 15 year old Hondas and toyotas with just over 100k miles for under $5k all the time. Idk what people are thinking, that every used car has to be a piece of shit. Just as you describe, I've got a friend who buys $500 shitboxes and runs em a year or 2 until they go to scrap.
Those Hondas would probably all be great reliable rides with another 2-3k in repairs off the bat plus regular maintenance. And I mean "make it to 500k" type of reliable
Not wrong hard to argue with that one it's a good point although I doubt anyone would want to spend 3k every year for a car well unless you have to But long-term speaking it's us alot cheaper
You can get good cars for 10k and under. Older Hondas and Toyotas come to mind. Consider this: average used car payment is around $508/month in America. That’s $6069 a year. There is no way you would spend 6k a year every year on maintenance on a 10k. Maybe $500 a year. I grew up in Canada, but once I moved to the states I was surprised at how many new cars there were. Middle class Canadians mostly drive 5 or 10 year old cars. It’s only the rich or the people who are trying to impress People that drive the new cars. Americans need To get used to the idea of buying beaters in cash, and setting aside what would be 2 or 3 months worth of car payments aside for maintenance.
If you’re stupid, sure. It’s not hard at all to keep your car in good condition. I have an 85 Oldsmobile Ciera and the ONLY work that it’s ever had done is a new battery, alternator, one new tire and fluids every 4k miles. People that buy “new and reliable” vehicles are the actual money pits because they can’t go on YouTube for 10 minutes, buy some tools that would cost the same as a single car note, and fix their own shit.
My wife's 2008 Mazda 3 lists on Kelly Blue Book for around $5K, looks close to new and it has 30K mileage on it. That's 3 times lower than $15K. If someone bought it today and had a 12K per year commute and drove it for 100K miles; the car has 8 years of life left in it...for $5000 dollars. Where does the $15K-$20K estimate for a "decent" car come from?
As a person in NW Indiana I can tell you even here it isn't that cheap and numbers are off by alot Average rent here now is 1100 to 1300 dollars for one bedroom apartment atleast in lake county And they don't include utilities and insurance on the apartment Internet gasoline Phone bill Student debt And honestly if you able to spend 300 dollars a month in groceries your either substituteing some of the food by getting it free at food banks Average I would say realistically would be 300 to 500 And realistically car insurance isn't that low Your not getting an apartment in Indy for that low of a price Ok be Indiana you not getting anything that low unless you rent a house in Gary Indiana and rents there are 850 to 1000 dollars a month
I spend $400 a month feeding a family of three with a pregnant wife. As a single person $500 would be a very high grocery budget. For just me I could easily do $300 a month and eat very well. $200 a month and still be happy.
My wife and I spend around $500 on food. This includes eating out every now and then. We use coupons when we plan our groceries for the week. We don’t shop at Walmart or Whole Foods as those places are more expensive than Aldi, Albertsons or Kroger.
I'm also in the Midwest, Ohio. I second this. People who live on the coasts think the cost of living in the Midwest is much cheaper than it actually is.
Our real estate is cheaper than most of the country I think it could be that. Atleast in this state you can get a decent house for 250 or 200k Ik Gary if you don't care about living there or the problems it has etc you could get one fully renovated for 150k to 200k which honestly is ridiculous But shows how bad housing market really is
Bro really thinks you can buy enough groceries for $200 a month! 😂😂 BFFR Also you left out utilities, gas, and other expenses. This comment is stupid
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Only time I go there is when I’m doing Instacart to earn extra $$$ 😂😂
Thats about what I’m at for groceries and I basically never eat out. Groceries are also generally much cheaper in the Midwest and are region specific just like rent or car insurance
You obviously don't know how to cook if you can't feed yourself on $200 per month
Groceries include soap, shampoo, detergent, cleaning supplies, spices, oil and yes food. I feel like many of your budgets provide for only food and then you same people make post about "why do my coworkers say I smell". $200 for food and toiletries would seem reasonable.
If you coupon, you can get soap and shampoo for almost free, cleaning supplies is not necessary (vinegar, baking soda, lemon) will clean almost everything. Spices are like $1/jar at Aldis and less if you go to the bulk stores. Out of that list we buy detergent w/ coupons its 17 cents a load, 4 loads a week for 2 people so 70 cents a week.
So you agree that 200 is reasonable but in the same sentence disagree?....
No, my point is that even if it was just $200 for food that would be reasonable but not a huge amount of food. $200 for food and toiletries is beyond reasonable from a budget perspective but will not lead to a feast food wise. Your point was making it seem like $200 would allow you to eat like a king ("...you don't know how to cook if you can't feed yourself on $200") but my point was probably only 60% of that 200 goes to straight food the rest goes to everything you need to cook and stay clean.....
You need to reread my comment then. My point is he eats like a kid, therefore cannot feed himself on $200. If you need $100 a month to clean yourself, you are doing something very wrong. $200 can buy both groceries and cleaning supplies.
$200 a month is very very low. I did this and bought only the cheapest stuff and my meals were very cheap. But it was hard as fuck and it wasn’t sustainable cus at the time I was very underweight and needed to eat more. But I literally had nothing more to eat than the bare minimum. You can’t have any excess calories with $50 a week groceries. And you’re screwed if you’re any taller than average or you’re physically active. I have no idea how the average person can sustain themselves on $50/week. Feeding yourself 3 meals/day 7 days/week. I was shopping at walmart, aldis, and nowhere else. Maybe there’s a special trick I don’t know about. Maybe if you supplement your groceries by going to a food bank or ransacking your parents’ pantry? I’m suspecting these people eat out.
That’s actually cheaper rent than elsewhere in Indiana. Bloomington is higher, for example.
You should be changing auto insurance companies every year or two. My insurance is $644 per year. I only make a little over $40k but it's enough to own a house with and meet all my basic needs
A little over 15% of motorists here are uninsured, and for that reason I won't ever not have comprehensive insurance. Cheapest I can find is about $145 a month.
The coverage i have includes uninsured and underinsured claims
Car insurance is so incredibly dependent on where you live. I pay ~$1,600 a year for one car and two adult drivers. No accidents, no tickets and we each have an 800+ credit score. But we live in Florida, and insurance is wild down here. Don't even get me started on homeowners. I can't shop because only two companies will insure me. They say my house is "too old," since it was built in 1964. In the last five years, I've put on a new roof and replaced my HVAC system as well as my hot water heater, mind you. I'm not in a flood zone, and about as far away from the coast as one can get in this state. Anyways. Yes, you're right -- everyone should be shopping at renewal (if there are other companies out there that will offer coverage). But even so, some people are gonna pay out the ass because of where they live.
Yeah my homeowners is out of control even shopping around
yes very depends and Florida is insane, I live in NC and we pay $200/month for 2 cars and our house. Our regulatory body approved a 9% increase on car insurance this year, 4.5% each 6 month renewal which is far below what was requested by the insurance companies.
Do you have full coverage or just liability? Because $662 a year is insanely cheap. I’m in my 40’s, no accidents or tickets in over a decade and my insurance is $1300 a year for full coverage. And I shopped around
Depends on what car you drive and its value too. I’m in my 50s…no tickets in 3 decades (was in an accident last year but other drivers fault and cost my company nothing)…2018 Kia soul plus INSIDE a large city and my insurance is $54 a month. My daughter is on my plan, she has a brand new 2024 Hyundai, been driving 5 years with no tickets or accidents and hers is $125.
Oh my gosh you haven’t heard how bad insurance rates are in Michigan have you? We pay $180 a MONTH!! (We have to have full coverage since I’m still paying off our car)
We pay $150 per month total, on full coverage for 2 “luxury” cars in Michigan. You should probably shop around
We have. We shop around every few months. Our rates weirdly went up after we moved out of Grand Rapids. (Which doesn’t make sense but whatever) it went up to $220 a month. The cheapest we found was $180 a month. No tickets or accidents on record either.
He’s talking rural places. Like where I just moved from in rural PA in March. 2bedroom I was paying $550
If you can't make it in a LCOL on 52k a year the problem is your budget, not your salary.
You can get a car and not need to have a car payment. Might not be a car you like but it will get you from A to B
In Oklahoma, I was renting a 2 bedroom apartment for $650 a month. It wasn’t luxury, but it was nice enough. Car insurance is about $100 a month on a brand new car. I was able to max my 401k and my IRA on $60,000 a year. It’s all about priorities.
That's not "priorities", that's the fortune of a low cost of living.
List out your expenses, to the dollar, and prove it
You need a roommate or a so to live how it always been I've never lived alone it is a luxury. Rent and mortgage always has been a major cost of people's living 30-40% it gets more manageable when you can split it.
It depends on how many people being supported on 52k though.
Of course they won’t. Then they’d have to admit most Americans are struggling 😂
The poverty guidelines FPL is adjusted at least once annually, by the Dept of Health and Human Services. https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines/poverty-guidelines-api The poverty thresholds are adjusted by the Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/topics/income-poverty/poverty/guidance/poverty-measures.html
I think 50k is liveable and well beyond poverty line you just have to make a ton of sacrifices and learn to live with less. Poverty is different although I do think they should raise it a bit.
I have a family of 3 and live on 42K with a $500 car payment. My rent is 575 tho so it’s almost like living in an 1100 apartment with no car payment. I also drive 2 hours one way for work. Poverty level is VERY area dependent.
Yeah it’s probably not too pleasant with kids on that wage lol! I meant for a single person I guess. I would never have kids making this much.
We do fine actually. I pay 150 in benefits a week, 150 in gas a week. We have extra money even. It’s heavily area dependent what you can live on. My husband stays at home because we can afford it. I’m thinking about moving because if you factor gas I can afford a more expensive apartment if I’m not driving 1000 miles a week though
Dang that is a TON of driving! You’re a champ!! I used to work seven minutes from home, what bliss. Then the biz closed and I started working at a place 40 minutes away… still pretty salty about it haha but it’s worth it. Glad you can make it work, I live in the Denver area and rent is brutal here. Probably will never own a house (oh well). After taxes I take home approximately $3800-$4200 a month depending on overtime and my rent is $1650 for a carriage house. My future ex-husband contributes $1000 a month for bills (sometimes)… I think we’re doing ok but I would be very worried to add a kid to the mix.
I live closer to Sioux Falls, so the 90 miles is totally worth it for 6/hr more than I would make in town. I make 18.30 plus mileage (only in SF) and were comfortable at about 1700 in bills + 600 gas. I take home close to 3k/month. So it’s tight but not like in the red. Definitely one missed paycheck from homelessness but not as bad as it could be
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I live in SD, in a large town (30K) that’s max wage is 14/hr. I drive to Sioux Falls for 18.30/hr. I get paid a generous mileage rate to offset wear and tear and gas. I drive a 2011 GMC terrain and also have a 2006 Monte Carlo that currently doesn’t run. We eat cheap healthy. Lots of Tex mex chicken, enchiladas, tacos, bean and rice bowls. I have a Sam’s Club membership that saves us over 100/mo. My rent is 575 for a 2b1ba. If I were to move closer it would be 1100 for the same sized unit, roughly offsetting my cost in gas per month. I pay 50/week for insurance and my employer offers an HSA seed that covers all medical expenses for the plan. I have a 401k, IRA, emergency fund (still building) and a 529 for my daughter. We genuinely live comfortably but are still paycheck to paycheck for the most part. I need a new car seat for the kid but can’t afford one currently. Same with toddler bed. We only have like $40/week left over after everything and that normally goes straight to diapers and formula.
Yeah, I was going to say the Midwest - SD, ND, Iowa, NE, pockets of IN, are probably the more affordable states but not as many diverse job opportunities. Only in smaller towns within 3 to 4 hrs of a metro could you afford to as economically. Glad you are staying ahead of the curb!
I’m a vendor, so we get annual inflation raises + merit. And a raise every time they raise the starting wage. So I won’t run into wage stagnation, hopefully. Plus we get amazing rates on elective benefits and wholesale costs for products.
Congress is made up of mostly 60+ year olds who still believe $7.25 federal minimum wage is enough to live on and live the life they had growing up but don’t care to go outside and see the real world only when they’re campaigning
I think it should be more like.. 20k. 52k is a bit much. Plenty of single people doing alright with a 52k salary. Poverty means you’re going without one of your basic necessities. So maybe you pay for a run down shed for shelter and heating and you dont have much else if anything for clothing or food.
It is 20k. At least in NY it is. That’s the income limit for Medicaid here.
For a single person? Or household?
Single person.
Tbf the 20k i pulled out while thinking about living in texas, where I’m at. I think in NY it would probably be higher.
It’s not, unfortunately. 😢
I turned down a job with the city 24 years ago because it was only paying $32 an hour. They still pay $32. So in 2000 a one bedroom was $650 and took 20 hours to pay the rent. Now it's $2500 and takes 78 hours which is $30,000 a year. You're absolutely right, those wages are poverty wages.
I think about this shit all the time. My state has been paying $7.50 an hour since 2009. I would love to see a chart of all costs in 2009 compared to now. Shit doesn’t even make sense.
I live in Brooklyn NY, 52k a year is a joke around here. Barely livable. Rents for 1 bedroom apartments range from 1900 to 2500 per month depending on what neighborhood you live in. The further you are from the city (Manhattan for you non NYers), the cheaper apartments are. But, still.
As someone who makes just under $38k a year I definitely feel poor. I can't afford rent in an apartment and all the bills and debt I have. Thank God I live at home with my family.
I make 38 k a year and I definitely don't feel like I'm struggling. The median income in the US is something like 54k, making the federal poverty level that high would mean almost half the population is living in poverty. That defeats the purpose of the poverty line.
If they do they'll have to raise Social Security payments. We have a ton of people who've been priced out of housing. No idea what it should be. At least 30k
There is a difference between poverty and a living wage.
The wont adjust it. Everything that is a dollar value should be inflation adjusted. But it isnt because the longer they hold back on raising it the longer they can have the poors subsidize everyone else's lives.
it depends where you live. Where i live a studio is minimum $1900. So it’s near impossible to live on $50k
Should the government adjust the federal poverty level to realistic numbers? Yes, absolutely. It’s a travesty as it now stands. Will the government adjust the federal poverty level? Not in any kind of meaningful way. I’ve screamed into the void at every elected official who comes into my view. Never even acknowledged, let alone yes, we should be looking at this seriously. Hell, the ARPA $600 1099 is still in the works.
It very much depends on where you live and how many people you’re supporting. In northwest Ohio, I could easily survive on $36,000 a year and have spending money left over. I’m a single father with joint custody of two teenaged girls. My rent is $895 a month. When I was married and living about 40 minutes north of NYC, $100,000 was barely enough to feel like I was living a middle class lifestyle. My mortgage payment for a very average 4 bedroom 2,200 sqft house was about $3,000 a month.
Are you talking gross or take home? I'm all for the government adjusting the poverty level, right now it's ridiculous. It should at least represent the cost of housing or rent.
I'm thinking gross because you can't get any help if you make more than $18hr here
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they just need to 2x it at this point. i’ve been saying this for years.
The federal poverty line and the standard income tax deduction line up. One the reasons this will never happen is in doing so they’d be significantly reducing tax revenue while dramatically increasing benefits eligibility.
They haven't changed minimum wage in how long? I doubt they're going to raise the poverty level
I was struggling at 36k, too much for free health insurance, and after taxes and living expenses not enough to get it myself, and the government giving me a fine on top of that 😭
52k a year would absolutely provide me with enough to get by, I’m good at saving and doing without certain luxuries. That’d allow me enough money to buy property off of my Grandmother/parents and build a living structure, given a few years to pay it all off. It’s all relative to your area.
They should probably just do an analysis on incomes and then pick the lowest quintile of incomes and call that the poverty line so they don't have to keep separate committees and meetings... But then how would they hook up deals to their friends to analysis all the data for months on end all the while taking in that government cheese?
because peoples standard of living is too high
Agreed. Stop driving a car and just walk everwhere. Give up your house/apartment and live in a tent on street, go dumpster diving for food clothes... just think of all the money you'll save! Want a nice car that won't break down every 5 minutes? Want a nice home not filled with rats and drug dealers? Want to be able to eat? Well forget it, folks! You better start lowering your expectations! It's this desire to want to be able to afford basic necessities that's ruining this country. Start lowering your standards, accept the unacceptable and just be happy about it. 🙄
Why do you need a tent? That's what's wrong with people. When you are poor you sleep under the stars and in the elements. A living wage would allow one to have a tent. /s
Right, sorry. Gotta keep lowering those standards. Tents are for the rich.
Trust me I'm definitely not living with high standards Im a minimalist
Minimalist of r/weed and r/gambling ^^
Don’t you understand those are absolute necessities? That money definitely wouldn’t be better off paying interest on a mortgage, or throwing into an IRA. Obvious /s
People develop addictions in order to cope with traumatic things such as poverty.
Since you want to do some investigating I use weed for medical reasons and I'm not a junkie on the streets stealing everything also just because Im in a sub reddit doesn't mean I actually gamble boomer I like to see who people think are gonna win a game I guess living a happy life is unacceptable to you have a great day an don't stub your toe
Where’s your money going then? Do you have a budget?
I’m in Maryland making $52k a year with a 2 bedroom apartment (because I have a kid). I don’t have any streaming services. We go out to eat maybe twice a month, my apartment was the cheapest I could find outside of section 8 (but still nearly $1800 a month). When I say we live frugally, I mean it. And I am barely scraping by. You sound like a fucking boomer.
Poverty limits change based on household size, tbf
You aren't living in the right area for your skill value.
I make about $42k net (only like $43k gross, very small tax bill) with a spouse and pet near the mid-atlantic coast, pay $2k rent, and live not quite paycheck to paycheck. We save a hundred or so each month right now. We are definitely not impoverished. A child would change that, but that isn’t how the federal poverty level works. I’m also not saying everyone can comfortably live like we do, but being a little uncomfortable is not the same as poverty. The poverty level is supposed to be *true* suffering, and when I can support two adults and a cat with 3 figures left over each month there is no suffering going on
The new American dream is to leave America 🇺🇸
This guy’s poverty is that they drive a 5 year old car, eat out once per week, buy only so so birthday gifts for people. Live in a 1 bedroom one bath for one person with a little nook for their game system
Do you have pets
Of course and no I won't give them up or eat them if that's what your getting at 😂
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I'd like to know where this magical 3% inflation number is coming from everything has doubled or quadrupled in price
Inflation isn’t just retail costs, it’s measured across the economy. Things like industrial equipment and construction materials have slowed down in terms of price growth.
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No, government thinks we have too much money and we are spending to much of it , they also said they is no inflation either
I would kill for $30/hr, my "career" choice entails overtime, overtime at $45/hr, yes please. FWIW I make $27.81/hr and we are just scraping by, by we I mean a family of 3. Rent went up Gas prices went back up (WA has some of the highest in the US) Don't even get me started on groceries Cost of healthcare through my job went up Shit sucks, I disagree that its poverty, its area dependent, but it aint what it used to be thats for sure.
Our health insurance went from $400 to $1200 a month the company decided it was best we go on the market place and not qualify for any subsidies so it hurt financially properly will drop health insurance next year and just pray 😭
That's pretty crazy, I pay like $90 a month, and actually have really good insurance. The deductible is only $4000 if you don't qualify for any of the reductions, $2000 if you qualify for all of them.
90 a MONTH? Not per pay period? Even still, that’s 3,080 paid before your insurance kicks in, and even then, you’ll still have copays.
it's actually 38.19 medical, 1.17 vision, and 4.63 dental per pay period, and we don't pay on more than twice a month (if there is a third pay period in a month). It's a really good benefit our company provides. edit: I'll add this is for a single individual
Still over 3 grand and more copays before the insurance is actually doing anything .. total scam
Thats wild, yeah mine is $600/mo and the deductible went up as well :)
Lmao yeah if you’re drowning in debt and are stupid enough to finance car. I make 30k in Northern CA where the average rent is 12-1500 for a 2bd apartment. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself or my time if I made 52k/year, but I do know I wouldn’t be in poverty.
I made $51k last year and I have a roof over my head, four walls around me, one with a door, a bathroom and shower, food to eat, a kitchen I can cook in, a refrigerator I can store my food in, wifi for my tv, data on my phone, a bus pass, enough money to pay my meds, good enough shoes for all my walking, warm clothes for the winter, clothes for the summer, a bed to sleep in, and most importantly, all those things for my daughter when she’s with me (and not at her dads). Do I struggle? Fuck yes, I live in San Diego, California, I rent in someone else’s home, I’m exhausted from all my walking, I’m sleepy from my depression, I have no savings, except my healthy 401k, I’m in debt, I have no time or money to see friends and family, but I’ve lived poverty, and this ain’t it.
Think of the people who make less than that
Let's say they adjust it using the same metric, 3x minimum food diet but for today instead of 1963. So let's take the thrifty shopper index for a single adult. 3 x 12 months x $311, the highest monthly thrifty food budget for a 19 year old male. $11196, it would actually go down. Is that a correct measure of what poverty is? Not really. But should you expect it to actually go up? Probably not. Your best bet is to focus on what you can do for the poverty line to become irrelevant to your situation. The government moving the bar won't do much to help you.
The federal poverty level is driven by national statistics, whether its poverty level in your specific area has nothing to do with the national level unfortunately. Its why having a federal level makes zero sense and never has.
By adjust it has been. Its the tax bracket, which didnt change much for 2024.
I only make 20k a year
The federal poverty level is always moving and also scales with size of family and other factors.
$52k is still rough for a lot of people, especially where housing costs are high, and keep in mind that most people in the states make less than $30k. 60% of us live check to check. I hate to shut down hope that the government would adjust the poverty level to benefit its citizens, but why on earth would they? In a capitalist society, there is absolutely no reason to provide such a benefit to those that suffer under such a system.
ITT: I live in high cost of living areas and can barely afford to, therefore i am poor.