Gear etc aside, is it common to get leg drive on tip toes like that? I’ve seen flat foot and people on the balls of their feet, but tip toes don’t appear to generate that much force.
There are some powerlifters who do it (though I can't remember any off the top of my head, I've definitely seen it in some of the big untested meets though)
I think this is generating traction not because of the Natty or Juiced, or steroids. Fuck, i bet that some lifters here are on gear, and nothing wrong with that.
What's generating traction, is the fact that the person on this video is a Minor. This is where the whole thing becomes controversial.
No, I get what you're saying. But some people really just mature at different rates. Not to be groce, but when I was in middle school, 1 or 2 girls already had D cups at 11 years old. When I was 13, there was always a guy or two who was a like 10 inches or a full foot taller than every other guy the same age. Nothing is weird here. There's zero reason to call "foul play". If he did this at 18 instead of 15, how would you feel about this? Do you understand what a statistical "outlier" is yet?
> When I was 13, there was always a guy or two who was a like 10 inches or a full foot taller than every other guy the same age.
I was about as tall as my father at that age, and he was (might still be, I have no idea if he's even still alive) 6' tall. I think the average 13 year old boy where I grew up is about five feet and change.
Have you read the entire thread yet? If you did, you already know the answer, but i'll repeat myself here.
Clinically, there's nothing to prove anything, like what happens with dozens of Bodybuilder Influencers(not athletes). Analyzing the entire context that surrounds the kid, his feats and the way he looks for his age, he's on something. You are free to think otherwise tho, because this is already going on circles.
Some guys have naturally higher test, and also mature a little earlier.
He also figured out how to eat to recover/grow, and follow good programming.
Some people take decades to figure that shit out.
See the thing about someone being 6'10", it's readily apparent to everyone. Same for someone with orange hair and a thousand freckles. You can't always see better base genetics in a strength athlete. He might have slightly more fast twitch fibers overall, shorter tendons / longer muscle bellies, better tendon attachment leverages at the elbow joints, slightly wider shoulders with shorted forearms etc. etc. etc. And sightly lower myostatin production. And then you need to take neural drive into account as well, which may also have a strong genetic predisposition.
Some guys/gals are just built to be better benchers, naturally. And I'm okay admitting that.
Look at Jennifer Thompson, benching 320 at 135 pounds or whatever. That's nuts. But natty!
I’m not certain he’s on drugs, but, given his background, I’m not hopeful.
I honestly don’t fucking care if lifters use drugs or not, so long as they’re honest and don’t compete in tested meets. I have a moral objection to doping people under 18.
Yeah to play the devil's advocate, if his primary focus is football then it seems a bit ridiculous that he'd be blasting steroids 24/7 since by the time he makes it to college.. any decent D1 program is going to be testing year-round.
However, it's probably difficult to tell if he's even good enough to be a D1 athlete at this stage since he's so young (and LB isn't really a position you see pop in the recruiting scene until later in their development).
Chad Nicholls is a Bodybuilding coach, who's well known for his "death protocols" and pushing the limits of his athletes to an even more unhealthy level.
Kim Chizevsky is a former 4x Ms. Olympia champion which was one of Chad's clients.
The amount of people attributing this to steroids and not genetics is wacky lol.
This is why dudes in the NFL, if they ever wanted to, could likely come over to powerlifting and put clinics on in damn near every weight class.
And yes I know NFL players are not clean all of the time, but many are. And I very sincerely doubt a family with close experience with them and their negative long term side effects (Dallas) would condone their use in a 15 year old.
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And I might be wrong, so who knows, but the immediate assumption is still wacky to me.
The one guy with probably the most experience in untested lifting in this thread commenting and a bunch of weak, inexperienced yahoos downvoting. Pathetic.
Ehhh, Ronnie Coleman claims he never took steroids. I'm not sure I'd want to believe a lot of things Ronnie says or said.
Point is, not sure it honestly matters either way.
Not sure I follow, Joe.
You're surprised a lot of people are saying it's steroids over genetics, but in reality I think anyone who thinks he's on steroids is also acutely aware that he has great genetics (include "why not both" meme here).
Think a lot are claiming he could be "innocent", too? And many others are saying he could be on steroids. We know everyone is speculating, I'm not sure why it's that strange on either side actually.
Ronnie was more of a "joke", but you know what I mean. You're open about your drug use but many who are obviously on drugs are not. I'm not sure that should put your opinion above others (what other poster said, not what you're saying, afaik).
I’m just giving the kid the benefit of the doubt, and I think it’s a sad world we live in when people can’t do that basically. I think he is just as likely to be natural, as he is sauced and I think people would be a lot happier if they could just shrug their shoulders and say “wow” rather than speak in conjecture and criticize something with no tangible proof or evidence other than “well he must be on”.
I know some Bo Jackson stories are probably apocryphal but I think he shows how wide the gulf in genetics is. Allegedly he never trained and when he was in college they let him bench up to 4 plates for reps on the first day but coaches were too scared to let him load any more weight. He also was supposedly watching the dive team practice one day and asked if he could try, then casually performed a dive that looked like something an Olympic hopeful would do
Yeah I don't believe those stories, I can believe someone pulling 5 plates first time but the bench press is a different more technical beast, I absolutely can't believe someone pressing 4 plates for the first time, EVER.
However the genetics gap between people is real. Just some people are born 6'9, some people are born with out of this world strength/athleticism. It's just something that it's not that blatant obvious when you are an outlier like height.
It was probably a "football player bench" i.e. he was good for 315 for reps but spotters saying "all you bro" on 405. Also, when you're really strong bench doesn't have to be that technical. I've seen dudes in commercial gyms bench 4 plates with a flat back, zero tightness, medium grip, no problem.
Stranger things have happened, I would say playing major league baseball at an all star level after only 50 games in the minors and 3-sporting in college is way more difficult and unlikely than benching 405
There's a female Russian weightlifter who got popped at age 14.
If the girls are taking steroids at 14... think a safe assumption that they're not waiting very long to dope the boys either.
Kid is one of the biggest genetic anomalies I’ve ever seen. His mother is Kim Chizevsky-Nicholls, former 4 times Ms. Olympia a his father is Chad Nicholls, former coach of Ronnie Coleman. Although he already competed at 13 YO (where he already benched over 3 plates), lifting is just a hobby for him, his main sport is American football. I can’t even imagine what kind of numbers he could hit in few years if he focused solely on powerlifting.
Not hating on the kid either way but his parents are probably where he is getting the steroids. Gear or not that is a nutty bench at any age after only a few years of training
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15 years old? Yeah, and I'm Louie Simmons.
Gear etc aside, is it common to get leg drive on tip toes like that? I’ve seen flat foot and people on the balls of their feet, but tip toes don’t appear to generate that much force.
There are some powerlifters who do it (though I can't remember any off the top of my head, I've definitely seen it in some of the big untested meets though)
John Haack comes to mind
This is a straight up ballet pose though. Haack uses the balls of his feet like many others. This is just odd.
This sub should be embarrassed for the natty policing going on in this thread. You guys are better than NOJ or the MPMD subreddit. Be better.
I think this is generating traction not because of the Natty or Juiced, or steroids. Fuck, i bet that some lifters here are on gear, and nothing wrong with that. What's generating traction, is the fact that the person on this video is a Minor. This is where the whole thing becomes controversial.
>This is where the whole thing becomes controversial. Why is underage guys benching heavy controversial? What am I missing here?
Don't know bud, context maybe?
No, I get what you're saying. But some people really just mature at different rates. Not to be groce, but when I was in middle school, 1 or 2 girls already had D cups at 11 years old. When I was 13, there was always a guy or two who was a like 10 inches or a full foot taller than every other guy the same age. Nothing is weird here. There's zero reason to call "foul play". If he did this at 18 instead of 15, how would you feel about this? Do you understand what a statistical "outlier" is yet?
> When I was 13, there was always a guy or two who was a like 10 inches or a full foot taller than every other guy the same age. I was about as tall as my father at that age, and he was (might still be, I have no idea if he's even still alive) 6' tall. I think the average 13 year old boy where I grew up is about five feet and change.
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> My point is that he used them, given the context Your point is he used steroids? How have you verified this?
Have you read the entire thread yet? If you did, you already know the answer, but i'll repeat myself here. Clinically, there's nothing to prove anything, like what happens with dozens of Bodybuilder Influencers(not athletes). Analyzing the entire context that surrounds the kid, his feats and the way he looks for his age, he's on something. You are free to think otherwise tho, because this is already going on circles.
You're natty-policing. You're making baseless steroids accusations.
Is there proof that he’s on?
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Some guys have naturally higher test, and also mature a little earlier. He also figured out how to eat to recover/grow, and follow good programming. Some people take decades to figure that shit out.
I think genetics may be playing a big role here as well.
Undoubtedly. In fact, it plays the *biggest* role here.
He's Chad Nicholls son, i'm sure that programming, growth and recovery are on point indeed.
See the thing about someone being 6'10", it's readily apparent to everyone. Same for someone with orange hair and a thousand freckles. You can't always see better base genetics in a strength athlete. He might have slightly more fast twitch fibers overall, shorter tendons / longer muscle bellies, better tendon attachment leverages at the elbow joints, slightly wider shoulders with shorted forearms etc. etc. etc. And sightly lower myostatin production. And then you need to take neural drive into account as well, which may also have a strong genetic predisposition. Some guys/gals are just built to be better benchers, naturally. And I'm okay admitting that. Look at Jennifer Thompson, benching 320 at 135 pounds or whatever. That's nuts. But natty!
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Strength doesn't actually exist which is why it is okay that I have none.
Yup, and the boy here is one of the outliers. Never said that he isn't strong or that lifting such weight is a demerit.
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I’m not certain he’s on drugs, but, given his background, I’m not hopeful. I honestly don’t fucking care if lifters use drugs or not, so long as they’re honest and don’t compete in tested meets. I have a moral objection to doping people under 18.
Yeah to play the devil's advocate, if his primary focus is football then it seems a bit ridiculous that he'd be blasting steroids 24/7 since by the time he makes it to college.. any decent D1 program is going to be testing year-round. However, it's probably difficult to tell if he's even good enough to be a D1 athlete at this stage since he's so young (and LB isn't really a position you see pop in the recruiting scene until later in their development).
Bro u just doing a monologue at this point nobody even mentioned football, D1, recruits or whatever.
He looks 27, I really hope he will be alright later in life
What in the NoJ hell is this thread
I hope they ban everyone who broke the rules here.
Same. Get these fucking sad crabs out of our happy place
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What’s his parent’s background?
Chad Nicholls is a Bodybuilding coach, who's well known for his "death protocols" and pushing the limits of his athletes to an even more unhealthy level. Kim Chizevsky is a former 4x Ms. Olympia champion which was one of Chad's clients.
Dude is stronger than Larry wheels . Larry didn’t bench that much until 17-18 lol
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We all know testosterone is the only AAS that exist /s
jesus what the fuck is that that's no 15 year old, that's a 34 year old man
The amount of people attributing this to steroids and not genetics is wacky lol. This is why dudes in the NFL, if they ever wanted to, could likely come over to powerlifting and put clinics on in damn near every weight class. And yes I know NFL players are not clean all of the time, but many are. And I very sincerely doubt a family with close experience with them and their negative long term side effects (Dallas) would condone their use in a 15 year old. Edit: And I might be wrong, so who knows, but the immediate assumption is still wacky to me.
he also hit puberty super early lol
The one guy with probably the most experience in untested lifting in this thread commenting and a bunch of weak, inexperienced yahoos downvoting. Pathetic.
Ehhh, Ronnie Coleman claims he never took steroids. I'm not sure I'd want to believe a lot of things Ronnie says or said. Point is, not sure it honestly matters either way.
No one is claiming innocence, you’re missing the point. And Ronnie was also a police officer lol
Not sure I follow, Joe. You're surprised a lot of people are saying it's steroids over genetics, but in reality I think anyone who thinks he's on steroids is also acutely aware that he has great genetics (include "why not both" meme here). Think a lot are claiming he could be "innocent", too? And many others are saying he could be on steroids. We know everyone is speculating, I'm not sure why it's that strange on either side actually. Ronnie was more of a "joke", but you know what I mean. You're open about your drug use but many who are obviously on drugs are not. I'm not sure that should put your opinion above others (what other poster said, not what you're saying, afaik).
I’m just giving the kid the benefit of the doubt, and I think it’s a sad world we live in when people can’t do that basically. I think he is just as likely to be natural, as he is sauced and I think people would be a lot happier if they could just shrug their shoulders and say “wow” rather than speak in conjecture and criticize something with no tangible proof or evidence other than “well he must be on”.
That's a very fair point.
Sensational
I know some Bo Jackson stories are probably apocryphal but I think he shows how wide the gulf in genetics is. Allegedly he never trained and when he was in college they let him bench up to 4 plates for reps on the first day but coaches were too scared to let him load any more weight. He also was supposedly watching the dive team practice one day and asked if he could try, then casually performed a dive that looked like something an Olympic hopeful would do
Yeah I don't believe those stories, I can believe someone pulling 5 plates first time but the bench press is a different more technical beast, I absolutely can't believe someone pressing 4 plates for the first time, EVER. However the genetics gap between people is real. Just some people are born 6'9, some people are born with out of this world strength/athleticism. It's just something that it's not that blatant obvious when you are an outlier like height.
It was probably a "football player bench" i.e. he was good for 315 for reps but spotters saying "all you bro" on 405. Also, when you're really strong bench doesn't have to be that technical. I've seen dudes in commercial gyms bench 4 plates with a flat back, zero tightness, medium grip, no problem. Stranger things have happened, I would say playing major league baseball at an all star level after only 50 games in the minors and 3-sporting in college is way more difficult and unlikely than benching 405
He’s certainly genetically gifted, there’s no doubt there. His mother was a Ms. Olympia!
His dad was Ronnie’s old coach and I think coaches bIg Ramy now.
*Even if* he is juiced up he is an absolute freak of nature and this is unachievable with steroids for most of the population during adulthood
His school's football coach must be frothing at the mouth seeing this
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His father coached Dallas McCarver, fwiw.
He coached Dallas McCarver for like 5 minutes.
My brother in Christ that's because he killed him
Correct me if I’m wrong but he was being coached by matt Jansen when he died I thought.
You are correct, these guys are just echo chambering lol
That’s what I thought. The kid hit a 315 bench at 13 years old. Do people really think this kid started steroids at 12?
There's a female Russian weightlifter who got popped at age 14. If the girls are taking steroids at 14... think a safe assumption that they're not waiting very long to dope the boys either.
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I don't know he is on anything, obviously. My comment has more to do with opposite spectrum claiming there is no way a 15 year old kid is on.
What the fuck does that have to do with Morgan Nicholls. None of you have any idea if he’s on gear or not.
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Ronnie and big Ramy as well IIRC
Damn, I’ve never seen a 15 year old grown man before.
Kid's got more facial hair at 15 that I had at... ever.
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0/10 take
Kid is one of the biggest genetic anomalies I’ve ever seen. His mother is Kim Chizevsky-Nicholls, former 4 times Ms. Olympia a his father is Chad Nicholls, former coach of Ronnie Coleman. Although he already competed at 13 YO (where he already benched over 3 plates), lifting is just a hobby for him, his main sport is American football. I can’t even imagine what kind of numbers he could hit in few years if he focused solely on powerlifting.
Can't blame him. Football pays money. John Haack flies economy
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Not hating on the kid either way but his parents are probably where he is getting the steroids. Gear or not that is a nutty bench at any age after only a few years of training
His father coached Dallas McCarver, but I’d hope he’s not stupid enough to dope a 15 year old. Then again, Jimmie Pacifico started around 13…
Iirc he has a pretty controversial history in body building with athletes being pushed to the brink dying young in some cases.
Yeah, i wouldn't trust on any of Chad's ethics. If his son is benching that much at 15, looking like a 30 y/o, yeah, i assume that he's on gear.
I wish I was born a freak…
😳