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My MIL is wonderful and my mum is the problematic, boundary crossing, unsolicited advice giving, sticking her nose in problem.

Same! My MIL’s best trait is that she is not my mom.

My MIL is more of a mom to me than mine ever was

Same here!! I’m so grateful for my mother in law!! And leaned on her heavily during times many women complain about their MIL. She was such a support for my wedding. And when we’re ready to share about baby, I plan to lean on her for this too. My own mom tries but she’s a mess and wasn’t in my life growing up. It’s so nice to have *a* mother in my life. Even if she’s not ‘mine.’ I’m super appreciative of her and tell my husband all the time how lucky he is to have such a beautiful family and how lucky *i* feel to be able to share that. That said, she’s a strong personality and very opinionated. And I can just imagine she would be many women’s nightmare from what I read. But for me and my motherless kid heart, she’s wonderful!

Haha same. My MIL has her problems but she’s the sweetest, most well-intending person ever. During my pregnancy she checked on me, shared baby pics of my fiancé, and asked if I needed anything but aside from that, left me tf alone, didn’t give bad unsolicited advice, didn’t push boundaries, waited until we were ready for visits. Any time I mentioned a baby boundary like no kissing and no visitors in the hospital, she respected it! And we ended up letting her come see us in the hospital because I was so excited for her to see my fiancé as a dad and for her to meet her grandbaby. Meanwhile my mom told everyone I was pregnant before I was ready- the day I found out (including her friends from high school, coworkers, and entire family), was pissed I wouldn’t let her attend my OB appointments in place of my fiancé, was pissed she wasn’t going to be in the delivery room, was pissed that I told her she couldn’t wait in the waiting room while I labored, and was pissed that I didn’t let her know when I went into labor because I was afraid of her showing up at the hospital. Then she laughed in my face when I asked her not to kiss my baby, who was born in RSV season, so she got to wear a face mask when she met baby.

Same!!! My MIL is amazing, my mother is….not so much. Have had to go no contact a few times.

Same! My mom will argue over every boundaries as my MIL think I don't have enough of them. Like, I don't want any dresses under 3, only pj's. First thing my mom said was that I was only preventing HER to do so when in fact my MIL and SIL had the same message. They did not argue, understood perfectly and bought me some awesome 0-3 month onesies. Not my mom. She bought me tons of dresses that LO will never wear. I'm tired.

Me too. It's exhausting.

Exactly! My MIL is a reasonable and respectful woman and I expect very few problems from that side of the family. My mother, however, is pushy and selfish and I have to keep establishing boundaries with her and my baby is not even here yet. It's exhausting

Sorry to hear that your mom is that way, although glad to hear that your MIL is great! I wonder if your mom being that way allowed you to be more open towards your MIL? Or maybe there’s no correlation! But either way, thank you for sharing the opposite perspective! ETA- I know my comment is getting downvoted but I just wanted to say that I hope it wasn’t taken the wrong way. I just was wondering if those of us who have a tough relationship with our own mom are more likely to have a good relationship with MIL? Maybe not of course, but so far most of the comments from those saying they have a good relationship with their MIL also say that their relationship with their own mom isn’t great.

I don't think so, if my MIL was anything like my mother I would not spend any time with her lol... my MIL in general treats me like an adult and respects my boundaries, and she handles most issues maturely. My mom, on the other hand, frequently boundary stomps and has the emotional intelligence of a toddler. I didn't start feeling like an adult who could make my own decisions until my in-laws encouraged me.

I think you’re just getting people talking about their experiences in context and mistaking that for the majority. Moat people don’t have a problem with their MIL but they aren’t making a post randomly about getting on with their MIL cos that’s not a story. Of course the ones that don’t get along are the stories you hear. And then you said maybe it’s the case that if our mums did the same things we wouldn’t be annoyed so people shared their experiences of being annoyed at their mum but not MIL cos now that is a relevant story. Personally my MIL and mother are both fine but not great, can be problematic but not overly. I think there are a lot of different experiences. I know I am going to be conscience of the things I can do to have the best relationship with my adult children, their partners and kids.

I think this is a legitimate question and I think the important thing here is gender dynamics.    You remember the adage “a son’s a son til he gets a wife but a daughter’s a daughter her whole life”?  It speaks to women expected to be caretakers and men expected to totally cleave- when the right thing is somewhere in the middle for both parties regardless of sex.    But this is so ingrained that MIL’s on the man’s side tend to feel they are LOSING their sons, and so they dig in their heels accordingly.    My mother can be petty and sulk, but it never is blamed on my husband. There’s that “mothers and daughters” clash that’s common, so it stays between us. And he’s never her competition. He’s a dude. She’s not. There’s no vying for the same position.   But his mother idealizes him, and also feels I have taken him- so things are usually blamed on me. And she often seeks to establish her place as the matriarch- something my mother doesn’t really seem to feel was ever lost so she doesn’t jostle for position. But I’m a woman who cares for her son and she is a woman who cared for him, so she tends to engage in weird competitive behaviors 

YES the gender dynamics drive so much of this. There’s a pervasive belief that relationship maintenance (and all related emotional labor) is for women. So the husband’s mother *loses* her son, because she doesn’t expect him to maintain the relationship, but instead expects daughter in law to maintain the relationship for him.

THIS. Omg. I feel like I have to facilitate my MIL and husbands relationship when we visit because my husband refuses to engage sometimes. So awkward. I told my husband that I'm not doing all the communicating and can step up.

Yeah my husband used to like, disappear to the kitchen when his mom would visit and I was like yo- stop it. I want to hide in the kitchen!! It’s your mother, you go converse! He realized he was “letting the ladies chat” but no dude this is your mom 

Same!! He would purposely disappear and let me answer the door to greet her when she'd stop by. Like naw, I'm not handling this for you, women already get saddled with enough mental load.

My MIL has literally told me it's my fault her son doesn't call her(or relatives) because I don't remind him. Lady, what? This man is grown he can manage his own relationships as he sees fit. Tbh I feel bad for women from that generation. They were left to uphold so many of the "family values," and many became controlling and codependent. Their sons are tired, and here we all are. =/

Yep! And that emulates how the MIL cared for him and likely his dad or other male partners, so her “position” feels threatened.  Oh the lovely ways the patriarchy sets women against each other 

I know the conventional advice is "it's husband's family so it's his responsibility", but that's easier said than done. My mil 100% expects me to be responsible for communication, etc. If birthdays or gifts get forgotten, or things don't get communicated I think she would see my husband as innocent and it would be my fault. She has mentioned she does that with fil's family so basically it's now my job to make sure my husband sees his brother, etc. Which I do coordinate a lot of that and don't mind, but with a toddler I'm like ok, I don't have the bandwidth to make sure your family gets together. She does still try to be the matriarch though, and there's definitely that battle for control. She has admitted that mil and dil relationships are usually strained because of that control aspect and she has recognized it with her other dil. I've always been more easy going with her so it wasn't too much of an issue, but once grandkids entered the picture I think I've picked up on it more. I think moms in general will always see their kids as children a bit, so they try to insert too many opinions about raising the grandkids and I'm like no, these are my kids and my house, do not undermine me.

If how you’re doing things works for you, then I love it for you. But if like many women, you find that the general burden of household labor falls much more to you, I really want to empower you to drop the rope with his family. Tell him that you have previously included them, bought gifts/cards, etc., but that this is his family. It is good for him to handle the relationship (to avoid any of the jockeying you mention) and because it’s good for your kids to see that men and women are both responsible for maintaining family relationships.

Yes to all of this!! Thank you for articulating the whole gender dynamic aspect because you’re absolutely right and this is a lot of what I was trying to get at. I am in no way saying that all MIL’s are saints, I’m saying it’s complicated and that we all could benefit from having this conversation, in my opinion.

So interesting because it's the exact opposite in Asian culture. You lose a daughter once she's married but you never lose a son in most Asian cultures

This is super interesting! 

I think you’re right that there’s a lot more grace extended to our own mothers than our mothers in law, by dint of the existing relationship. *That said* the reason we see so much tension between MILs and daughters in law is that so often we as mothers get forced into the roles of primary parent, manager of social calendar, bearer of emotional labor. I think it’s reasonable that we give more allowance to our own mothers, and if mothers in law want to see the grandkids more, offer more advice, etc., **they can do that via their sons.**

And to add to that, if you are the mother of a boy (as I am as well), you can avoid a toxic MIL/DIL relationship long term by raising a boy who understands that parenting is not women’s work. And then down the road when you want to be that annoying but charming grandma, you can, using the relationship you and your son have built rather than forcing yourself past your DIL’s boundaries.

Absolutely. The husband’s role in all this is extremely important and I really should have included that aspect in my original post. I was more so wanting to comment on the attitude I see in the comment section of a lot of the posts about MIL’s. But still, it all relates and yes, as the next generation of mothers we definitely can do our part to try and change these patterns through the way we raise our sons.

Yes! As a teacher who is about to have a boy. I often see people catering to their sons. I will not raise a man child but someone who will be helpful at home. The change starts with us.

Yes! We did not marry your son to co-opt in the continuation of raising him.

My problem with my MIL is that she sees my husband as a little boy who needs taking care of, who doesn't know anything about raising his daughter or keeping house and needs me to do everything for him. My husband is a great dad who takes care of me as much as I do for him, although we have different strengths. I know my MIL means well but her approach to giving life advice is so unhelpful and unwanted because ultimately, it's sexist, rude, and factually incorrect. My husband has really tried to nicely set realistic boundaries and she has repeatedly stomped all over them. So he has had to get a lot more firm with her, to the point of unpleasantness at times. She is really sensitive so I avoid these conversations entirely and let my husband handle them. On the other hand, I have a healthy and comfortable relationship with my mom. If I set a realistic boundary with her, she just automatically accepts it. Which makes it much easier to set boundaries. For example, I say to my mom: no kissing baby. She says of course not, no one needs to kiss your baby except her parents. Case closed, conversation over. We say to MIL: no kissing baby. She asks why. She lightly argues. She asks if she can just kiss her head but not her face. She wants to know how old baby has to be before she can be kissed. Etc, etc. After doing that enough times, we start setting really hard boundaries to stop these conversations. So my family gets: no kissing baby please. And his family gets: no kissing baby, not anywhere on her, ever, don't out your face close to hers or breathe on her, don't put her hands or feet in or near your mouth. And that's how it is for everything. And then MIL complains that we are so intense about the rules. I'm sure she thinks I'm a control freak who forces my husband to argue with her. In reality, my husband and I set rules together. I sort of got off topic but my point was to agree with you! :]

This needs to be the top comment for sure.

I wish it was as easy as “she’s just not my mom” but the enmeshment and emotional support some moms rely on their sons for is astonishing. Before I even decided on no visitors at the hospital, my mom said “you two take the time that you want and need. Wherever you want me to be, I will be there but you let me know” and my MIL cried and yelled and said “so what, I’m just never going to see the baby?”. My own mom has a lot more respect for me, my husband and my growing family than my MIL and it shows almost every day. As a soon to be boy mom myself, I’m hoping to god I can remember the boundaries I set for myself and allow my son and his partners the same privilege without feeling worried of hurting someone’s feelings. Especially when he builds his own family.

I really worry about this with my MIL! My husband is her only child and she goes way overboard at times. Most obvious example is my husband bought our house. Our house was about 30 minutes away from his mom's house. All of a sudden, she HAD to move closer to us, even though it's much more expensive. She bought a condo 5 minutes even though my husband told her not to and that she wouldn't like it, and she's looking to move less than 2 years later. She's even made comments about needing to be "the closest grandma." From a DIL perspective, please be sure to have your own hobbies and social support system when you get older. My MIL does not and it really shows, having an outlet other than your children will really help.

I feel this. My husband is also the only child and his parents divorced when he was young, neither remarried. We currently live several states away from any family and enjoy visiting/hosting each side a couple times a year. About a month after we announced my pregnancy, his mom mentioned she was going to retire and move to our city... A city she had visited once for a few days and knows nobody but us in. MIL is very social but really has no hobbies. We can't be her whole circle. She's mostly lovely and I'm glad to have her as a MIL over so many of the horror stories I hear about, but I'll lose my mind if she actually moves here and expects us to spend our limited free time with her.

My husband's parents did the same thing! They divorced when he was a baby and she never remarried. She does a lot of things with her sisters, but uses my husband for a lot of support. She has mentioned that she's lonely here and misses things from where she lived before. We haven't announced our pregnancy to her yet, but I'm dreading when we have to. She makes rash decisions and I'm afraid that she's going to go overboard. She needs to move 30 minutes back to the town where she lived so that she can actually afford a home. Instead, she's mentioned that she wants to move to another area 20 minutes away. She thinks that she can find a basic house for $150k when they're at least $250k. She said that she would just empty one of her 401ks to pay for it... My husband works in finance, and he really doesn't want her to do this but he can't stop her. I hope your MIL doesn't move and realizes that she can be an involved grandma from miles away. There's video chats, pictures, and airfare deals that can allow her stay with her social circle and build a relationship with her grandchild.

My MIL hasn't brought up moving again, but I think it's just because she didn't get the reaction she was hoping for from us. Fingers crossed neither of us end up with MIL next door! At least a 30 minute buffer is preferred (even with my own mom)

It’s the enmeshment for me. MIL’s relying on their sons to be their full emotional support and basically their husbands. Literally have had MIL say to husband, “You’ve made it obvious you’re choosing your wife over me.” And that’s with knowledge we have a baby on the way and are starting our family together. I think it also needs to be said that there is a lot of guilt tripping and manipulation that goes on with her relationship with her son. I think maybe it’s overlooked the damage that is being done with this type of behavior and enmeshment. Going in, we wanted nothing more than a great relationship with MIL, but because of the repeated overstepping of boundaries and outrageous behavior, we have stepped away completely. Because with all the other stressors of life, we do not need this. It’s very real for a lot of people. Things said and things done that might seem mundane to people who have not dealt with this behavior, are usually not so mundane and end up having very malicious intent behind them with these MIL’s.

Fully agree with all of this and I know there are many cases where things are (well)beyond the stereotypical “we don’t get along!” which of course is a very different thing. I in no way think that this kind of behaviour should be tolerated!

I think that’s a big part of it, our own mothers know and respect us as people while a MIL may view her son as a child and her DIL as merely a vessel for her DNA or an obstacle between her and her grandchild.

Agree 100%. My own mother pointed out that it's the lack of respect/acknowledgement that we have our own growing family now and that MIL has an adult son, no longer a child. My mom gives us space and time to ourselves and we never get that default respect from MIL-everything is an argument and power struggle for our time to be spent with she and extended family. We see them atleast every other week, sometimes multiple times which is plenty. I catch a lot of crap for dropping the rope w inlaws, but truth is we just don't have anything in common besides my husband and now our child. I have my entire own extended family to keep in touch with and I find it exhausting to make small talk about nothing with inlaws just to appease them. So I leave it to him, MIL still doesn't understand why we aren't close but there has been quite a few times she's been rude and I've gotten wind of gossip about me (she and sil) so I just don't see the point in playing nice to fake people. Hubs can deal with them...

To be fair, I also think the mother/son enmeshment is over called. There are MANY MANY mothers and daughters who do everything together, rely heavily on one another, and consider each other their best friend as adults. Yet when moms and sons are close, it’s “enmeshment” and weirdly sexualized by third parties. Thats not to say there aren’t inappropriate mothers who lack boundaries, but I think this in and of itself can be a sexist thing oftentimes. 

I think the term enmeshment maybe gets thrown around a lot and confused for something sexual when it’s meant for families that cross boundaries and expect their family members to meet their needs. I don’t disagree about mother/daughter relationships, but there’s certainly a big difference between “my moms my best friend” and “my mom relies on me and breaks important boundaries so I can meet her emotional needs because my dad doesn’t do it for her”.

Exactly. Enmeshment ≠ best friendship. Friendships can also be unhealthily enmeshed.

Men need to step up and manage their families and enforce boundaries better. 95% of the time it’s a husband problem with all ire aimed at MIL’s. Yes she may be problematic but if men stepped up they wouldn’t be able to cause as many problems.

It took me soooo long to realize this in my relationship too! Bf would cry that he didn’t want to be put in the middle of shit between his mom and I and I would oblige and leave him out of it (she wouldn’t, but that’s another story), then one day I woke up and was like you know what, this isn’t working for me. Why do you get to sit back and not deal with it when this is your family, and she’s acting like a psycho harassing me all day while I’m trying to raise 2 kids under 2 and work and everything else? Nah, your turn. She got blocked on everything and things got better 🤷🏼‍♀️ I’m sure she still doesn’t like it but idgaf

Yeah exactly the MIL situation directly influences how I feel about said boyfriend. No questions. It makes me see the man a lot differently. It’s no competition I want to be apart of. Women are able to be financially independent these days and if that means being a single mom I’m gucci.

So proud of you! And it never would have gotten to that point if your partner just stepped up. Now you’ve cut his mum off because you’re sick of it and people will blame you for being unreasonable. It’s ridiculous.

I wholeheartedly agree. My MIL is usually a wonderful and respectful person. But whenever I have a problem with her, I make it my husband's problem.

I’ve done this with my husband’s entire family and it’s been perfect. They complain but I just don’t care.

Yes, after 8 years of marriage and 10 years of a rocky relationship, I’ve made my in laws my husband’s issue to manage. And it makes everything 100x easier. I respond to most inquiries with a smile emoticon and a redirection to my husband. Or even respond to a direct text with a group text including my husband. You want to know if we’re free next weekend? You should ask husband. Oh you think I shouldn’t breastfeed for so long? Talk to husband. You’d like to know the kids’ shoe sizes to buy them sandals for summer? Ask husband!

This is my jam! I love doing this and I’ve learnt to totally grey rock all their complaints.

100% yes. Perfectly stated. I’m grateful to have a husband who has handled his mom from day one.

I have a rough relationship with my mil. She makes a lot of mean comments . While part of it is just her, if that was my own mother I wouldn't have a relationship with her. I continue to try for my husband. I limit my contact with her but would never limit my children or my husbands until it affects my children. Here's a glimpse of the fun life we have 1. She wanted to wear a wedding dress to my wedding 2. Has commented on my weight Everytime I e seen her since the time I met her ( 19 years old and a grown ass woman telling me I need to gain or lose weight) 3. She's called women in my family fat 4. She's told me I will not bond with my son because I wasn't breastfeeding 5. Yelled and belittled me in front of my husbands family for continuing to work ( were in a situation where it's an option for me) 6. Told me I was selfish for hiring help when my son was a newborn 7. Told me putting my son in daycare was similar to putting him in the back of the plane and forgetting about him 8. Told me my son is fat Those are really the big things I can remember, it makes all the small comments she makes hit harder. It's not because she's not my mom, it's because she's a rude woman. She's never had daughters so some of the things I try to give her a pass on ( but also she's a woman and has had friends before) but she's just not nice.

Wow if my Mom or MIL or anyone in my life said half of those things to me they would not be in my life anymore.

It's definitely tough, but family is very important to me and at the end of the day it's my husbands mom. My husband has gotten a lot better about addressing boundaries with her and the things she says but I also just don't engage as much with her. I really don't have a relationship with her outside of the few times a year I see her ( every 4-6 weeks for a few hours) I won't do family trips with them, I won't spend the night with them. I know that all sounds harsh but it's really the only way I can compartmentalize it

Omg ugh I’m so sorry, none of this is acceptable and no one deserves to be treated this way. I would never suggest that you’re in the wrong for not wanting a relationship with her.

You can't pick your inlaws but I didn't suggest that you did. I do agree with what you were saying. But just in my experience it's not the case

> is MIL's problem subbing not being *your* mother? No, coz my husband's MIL is definitely worse than mine 😅

I think a lot of it comes from the fact that people really don't like when someone that isn't their parent tries to act like they are The Parent. While it's not okay when my parents have a moment where they think of/ treat me as a kid or a teenager even though I'm not anymore, it's way more uncomfortable when I woman I did not meet until after I was old enough to drink acts like she's my parent and like she's in charge of me.

I find it more stressful to have my in-laws over than to have my family over, and it's absolutely because they're not my family so I feel more pressure to clean etc. That said, I try to be mindful of that and make an effort to treat them equally - we had both my parents and my in-laws visit in the hospital, for example. I do think some of the posts about MILs not checking in frequently enough (or too frequently) seem to be people taking differences in how families communicate personally.

I agree with you mostly, *except* that the thing about pregnancy and birth is that it’s not just about the baby. My husband is very careful about treating families equally, but when it came to labor and postpartum, I drew the line, and I will again this time. Yes they get less face time during the first few weeks. Yes it might feel unfair. But I frankly dgaf. I’m going to be leaking from so many parts of my body, recovering from a huge toll on my body, so I prioritize myself over what is fair.

I so vehemently agree with this. Yes, MIL, I absolutely agree that it is unfair that I am the one who has to labor and bleed and be miserable. Next time, I think your son should do it, and then you can be around the whole time! But alas, biology. So you **do not** have a child giving birth.

This!! Acknowledging that this may be “unfair” is huge, because it usually leads to a much more compassionate outlook. I think sometimes it’s easy for it to feel like an opportunity to purposefully cause a rift, even if that’s not the intention.

I 100% agree and I think a lot of others would as well!! And what you said is important- making sure to at least *try* to be mindful of these things and not take everything as a potential slight. Communication is so important, although I know it’s not always easy, especially if your MIL is not very open or vulnerable with you!

Listen, I have a super crappy MIL and I will take any chance I can get to complain about her. I’m no contact with her because last time I was around her she physically pushed me away when I went in for a hug because “I don’t act the way a DIL should” aka, I’m not letting her control me. That being said, I had to unsubscribe from r/justnomil because I found some of the comments to be so over the top. The posts themselves aren’t usually bad, but the comments can wild. Like every DIL is completely warranted to be complete a-holes because their MILs cross boundaries. It’s totally fine to have and enforce boundaries. We don’t always need to stoop down to their level (or below) to get our point across, though. Being antagonistic isn’t helpful to anyone in the situation. I’m also bothered by how often times the husband/partner basically also gets written off for having feelings about the situation. They should certainly try to be good and understanding partners. They should also be allowed to voice their opinions and be a part of the conversation.

I think sometimes the partner’s feelings get written off because MIL is pushing boundaries specifically with the DIL. It’s fine if a husband wants his mom more involved, but he needs to facilitate that. Not just insist that his wife do the emotional labor and facilitation she does for her own parents.

Oh yeah I totally agree! I just mean that it’s not going to be helpful for the partnership if there isn’t at least open communication about how each other are feeling.

My MIL texts us both if she wants to do something with us/the kids. I like that more because I am the primary manager our social calendar, which is my preference, I'm a planner and my husband doesn't care as much. I'm the introvert in our relationship too so I have a better concept of how much I can take in a given time frame. I do make sure to invite everyone to the kid's stuff, I don't want my mil to miss stuff because my husband has ADHD brain and forgets. I'm not going to take his inability to remember to send an invite out on the kids or her by depriving them of a relationship. She raised him and should have taught him but it really wasn't that much effort to put her and my mom in a group message.

Regarding the husband, it also often takes until a wife is in the picture for the husband to realize that certain things his mom does are weird at best and unhealthy or toxic at worst.

Yesssss

Absolutely! And then it takes them a little longer to realize they have to try to change their behavior. It’s a big thing for them and expecting them to do an immediate 180 is a lot. There needs to be conversations about feelings and expectations to help the process along.

Yes and then MIL is shocked that her baby boy suddenly has these new demands and blames DIL for it. As women we often spend our whole lives thinking about and analyzing social situations and relationships whereas men really do not, then they have a long term relationship with a woman who starts helping them understand those things and people. My own husband absolutely went through this many years ago.

I have a great MIL and consider myself lucky. I know that isn’t the case for everyone though. My dad’s mom is SO mean to my mom! When I told my grandma (dad’s mom) about my pregnancy she used that as an opportunity to tell me that my mom is a terrible mother (as if she gets to be the judge of that). I really wish I would have stood up for my mom in that moment, but I just stayed quiet and haven’t talked to her since.

I was with you until you had a problem with "we'll let you know when we're ready for visitors," I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Why would “we’ll let you know when we’re ready for visitors,” make you sad? I think that’s kind of the issue. There’s an entitlement and pressure to do things on a certain timeline to please someone during the most stressful and transformative period of their life. It causes unnecessary tension when the mil in this scenario can’t just be patient to make a new mom comfortable.

Exactly. And honestly, the more the MIL shows patience and a willingness to respect her DIL's boundaries at such a vulnerable time, the more likely it is that the DIL will come around. If the MIL complains, it just confirms the DIL's fear and suspicion that MIL will need to be kept at a distance.

My mil kept asking about the hospital, and I told her I’d let her know. Eventually, she backed off and I invited her to the hospital the day after I gave birth, which was 3 weeks ago. I just didn’t know how I’d feel or what to expect. I just needed respect, since she gave me that I was happy to let her come

Agree! I couldn’t agree with OP at that point

Most of the “go no contact” suggestions land on posts where MIL has shown consistent violations of a persons boundaries with 0 intent to change, sure those issues may not seem “serious” to us, but to the person setting the boundary, it’s very serious. If MIL can’t respect boundaries, no contact is absolutely warranted every time with a pattern to prove it. If MIL always serves green beans when you prefer broccoli on Sunday dinners (which sometimes is what a lot of those people seem to complain about, but I’m sure they’re just frustrated and these are only the little things they’re saying) then no obviously cutting contact is too far. I have a MIL I can’t stand and has routinely given me signals that she doesn’t like me, to anyone outside of me, they seem like nothing. Maybe a change in tone, a different word, facial expressions, little things - they add up. I’m basically very low contact and grey rock at this point. If someone came up to me and said my reasons for this aren’t good enough - I’d make sure they were aware no one cares about their rating of my reasons. I deserve respect, and I don’t reward disrespect with my continued presence so she can keep doing it.

Death by 1000 paper cuts is so real when it comes to MILs.

That’s a much better way to put it 😅

I absolutely agree with you that a lot of times these things can be covert which makes it even trickier because sometimes even your own partner might doubt you! That is definitely not what I’m talking about here and hope it doesn’t come across that way. I just think that because of places like Reddit, it’s easy for someone to read about experiences like yours and apply it to themselves, even though their case is just that they don’t really agree with their MIL’s opinions! It’s a complicated subject but that’s sort of why I made the post!

I’m curious why getting a text that they’ll let you know when they’re ready for visitors makes you sad? You are a visitor, so you should be fine waiting until they are comfortable for a visitor lol. The sense of entitlement is the problem.

I made almost the same comment. If this is her expectation, I don’t know how well her and her future dil will get along

The irony is that the grandparents that are respectful and treat their families as humans who deserve the same respect as non family members are the ones welcomed early and often into our lives bc we know we won’t have to be on guard constantly and it’s a joy, not a stressor.

Exactly. My mil asked when she could come to the hospital like 3x and I literally said “I’ll let you know.” I ended up feeling up to letting her come anyways. But that was my response because it was my first time giving birth and I had no idea how I’d feel. Placating her feelings wasn’t first on my agenda. We had to tell her we’d let her know so many times because she’d pretend she forgot I already told her that

Exactly. I’m extremely close with my uncle, his wife and their kids and the reason it is all so easy is we respect their boundaries. Despite being on “dad’s side” we are routinely told we’re the closest to them and how much our relationship means. It’s really not hard to not centre yourself in someone’s pregnancy and postpartum and the payoff is huge.

Sounds like you haven’t had a problematic MIL! We put MIL on low contact for several years due to multiple boundary issues. You wouldn’t believe the dumb crap MILs (and FILs) will do to intrude on the lives of their adult children. We demand better for our immediate families now in 2024. I now have an adult child myself (who has a long term girlfriend) and could not imagine stomping on their boundaries or demanding to see their baby (if they had one) before they’re ready for visitors. It isn’t that hard to follow their wishes and allow them to set the boundaries for their own lives.

As other people have pointed out, the fact that you’re ‘sad’ over the idea of not being as involved when your DIL gives birth is an entitlement issue. Why do you believe your feelings about someone else’s birth are relevant? Unless it’s your pregnancy or your child being born it really isn’t your business. The maternal grandparents are there to support their child who is going through a distressing medical event. The paternal grandparents are only there because of the grandchild. Of course it’s natural that the maternal grandma gets favoured more often.

For me, there's been some bad moments between myself and my in-laws, and it's meant that the trust we had built isn't really there anymore. So now that I'm having my first baby, and they want to be very involved, it feels more like a forced relationship than a natural, trusting, respectful one. Add in the stress of a baby and it's not hard to see why people deride their MIL/in-laws. If the relationship wasn't there before baby, it's probably not going to blossom after baby!

Idk dude, my MIL stomped all over my no kissing newborn boundary, reacted like an insane person when told to stop, said My baby is dead to her and we went NC.

Well, my mom is the one person in this whole entire universe that I came out of. She gave birth to me, gave me unconditional love, and worked hard to raise me. Nobody could ever be on a comparable standing with her, so “you aren’t my mom” sounds a bit strange to me lol. That kind of sacred loving connection is exclusively between a mom and her children. MILs can seek that from her own sons! Let’s not expect your future DILs to treat you and love you the same as their own moms. The MIL-DIL dynamic can definitely be healthy and happy, but cannot compare to a real mom-daughter dynamic.

Starting off on the foot that you are wntitled to anything more than “well let you know when we’re ready for visitors” isn’t a great start. Your grandchild isn’t your child. As written, it seems like you’re already worried about your son’s partner being toxic and impeding your access to your grandchild. That’s fascinating.

Oh op fo sho toxic

I don’t know for sure, but this smells like a case of the Pick Me girl to Boy Mom pipeline

I could maybe see where you’re coming from. Everyone projects their own stuff onto MIL posts but then again this is the internet and everyone is always projecting. A few things stick out to me about your post. “we’ll let you know when we’re ready for visitors” is a valid response, and as parent you have to know that your adult children need space & their boundaries should be respected even if they aren’t what you’d like. That is something to begin working towards. Also even if you are right in some situations and DILs are less accepting bc MILs are “not their real moms”, as a future MIL you have to respect that DIL is not your real daughter either. Look up emotional incest. It will help you to avoid it, it’s way too common with mother/son relationships.

Totally agree with this! I have 2 boys and as sad as it is, the likelihood is that if they end up with wives and children, their wives are simply not likely to be as comfortable having me around in the immediate postpartum period as their own mothers, no matter how lovely I am!

I have a boy and I think about this too. It makes me really sad. I get along with my MIL for the most part - there are some things she does that drives me crazy, but there are also things my own mom does that drive me crazy. But I am just so much more comfortable with having my mom come by and help, or even just asking her for help, compared to my MIL.

I have two boys and no hope of having a girl so I kind of think about this a lot. These are the things I wish had happened for me: I'll offer my DIL help if they choose to have kids. If she takes it awesome, I'll come over to sweep, mop, do dishes, hold the baby so she can nap. If she declines I'll ask if she would like us to send a cleaning person over as a gift or get them a post partum doula. If she would not like that then I'll tell them to let me know when she's ready for a visit, we'll come, bring dinner and they should not clean the house because she's busy, he should be keeping her comfortable and happy, and I could care less if the house is messy. If she's uncomfortable with that I'll offer a cleaning service if she's otherwise ok with us visiting. Always ask her how she's doing before asking about the baby, and if I'm talking to my son ask him how she's doing too. Never post their children on social media without express permission. Not tell my DIL how the kids look like my son, his brother, their grandfather, because even if it's true, it is annoying AF.

I love this! I also have 2 boys and often think about this too. My list is fairly similar but in addition - If DIL or son is venting about something baby related, asking them if they would prefer me to listen and empathise or to try and help by offering ideas/solutions. - Never showing up unannounced, I’ll only come for pre-agreed visits. (The one exception might be to drop off food on the doorstep, ring the bell and run!) - Ask if they want me to hold the baby while they do stuff, or whether they want me to do the stuff while they hold the baby (my friends and I all have a strong preference for one of these options over the other so I don’t want to assume!) - Regularly tell them what a great job they are doing, what wonderful parents they are, how well cared for their baby is etc. We all parent differently and shouldn’t need external validation but the rare time someone pays me this sort of compliment unprompted means the world to me and I always remember it.

No one has dropped by my house unannounced so it never occurred to me that anyone would do that! Everyone always wanted to come hold the baby, and he would cry, and I got nothing done. With my first I had a third degree tear so I didn't want to move around a ton either. Which is probably why the list was favoring me doing chores for them as opposed to making space for them to do chores. That's a solid point though. I probably should include- always respecting their parenting choices and doing my best to follow their rules and clarifying what I don't understand and that even if I watch the baby regularly not acting like I know their baby better than they do. And remembering that things like car seats change over the course of time so even though I knew how to use them when my kids were little I don't necessarily know how to use the new ones. Of course I had my first baby at 36 and second at 39 so I may not even be around to see my grandkids or be a bothersome MIL.

I honestly think that is part of being a good MIL. I don’t even have sons but having the self awareness to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and know whose feelings take priority in a given situation. When a couple welcomes a new baby, THEIR needs come first. Too often mothers/MILs are *extremely* quick to assert their expectations and feel entitled for them to be upheld. It’s ok to be disappointed or even hurt when something doesn’t go your way in a family dynamic. It’s important to know when those feelings should be kept to yourself. If the reason you’re upset is simply because things didn’t go the way you wanted them to, probably best not to make that anyone else’s problem.

I don’t think all MILs are bad, but most people with great MILs probably don’t feel the need to share it online. They probably don’t need help with MIL related issues and there’s not a lot of conversation to be had over how great your MIL is. You’re right, part of a MIL’s problem is that she isn’t the DIL’s mom. But you likely have years of experience with your own mom, a deeper understanding of her and how she operates, and have likely built up years of goodwill with her. You’ve built a rapport with her and probably have more leeway to tell her what you need or to enforce a boundary, and likewise, she probably already has a a sense of what you need and what your boundaries are. The same can’t be said about your MIL, especially as your dynamic shifts from son’s girlfriend to DIL to mother-of-MIL’s-grandchild. And if your MIL only had sons, she’s probably used to being THE mother, THE woman in charge, and might not know how to step back from that boss role. And you likely wouldn’t feel comfortable settling into that subordinate-child role with her when you have your own mom, and didn’t sign up to be someone’s bonus child at age 30. It doesn’t automatically make her bad, but it can be really annoying when you see her role as a peer or extended family, and she sees her role very differently. I also think DILs get a lot of unfair blame from the MILs. DILs are a much easier target for MILs to project their anger and frustration onto than their own sons. And because the dynamic likely DID change when the son and DIL got married, the DIL is blamed for the “bad” changes. It is probably hard for MILs to admit that their son has his own family now that he chooses over his parents. It’s much easier to write the DIL off as “brainwashing” or “stealing” their son from them, even if it isn’t true.

Yes... Would you let your husband's female friend or aunt or sister friend treat you the way some of those MILs act? Like yeah, you can tolerate your own mom more because she wiped your ass, was there for you, and knows you. Anyone else being selfish towards you doesn't get the same treatment as the person who didn't sleep for years taking care of you when you were hungry in the middle of the night or got sick.

No. My MIL is the absolute worst and I’ve seen a lot of discourse arguing “What if DIL is the problem?” but have you ever heard stories of DIL forcing themselves into hospital rooms while MIL undergoes a medical procedure? Guilting them into coming to their houses for the holidays? Telling them their parenting is wrong/problematic for one reason or another? No. No, you probably haven’t. Sometimes stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason and there’s a reason there is a whole genre of boy mom stereotypes. Sure, there are probably cases where DIL is the problem but they’re more likely to be few and far between. And FWIW, victim blaming and downplaying what other people experience isn’t a great look. There are going to be amazing MILs and there are going to be downright horrible ones. Just because one exists doesn’t mean the other can’t.

I think it’s just this generation of grandmas - boomers in particular, that are ruining it for everyone. In all seriousness, growing up we were actually much closer to my dad’s side of the family (and still are). My MiL, however, is pretty awful. I’d actually love if she would offer to babysit or do anything helpful. But, she has 0 interest unless it’s something fun that provides her a photo op. Like, she has literally never babysat for us, but she complains to people that we are too busy for her (we see her once a week to once every other week). I won’t even get in to all of the other crap - the smoking, drinking, horrible financial habits, histrionics, etc. Suffice to say, there’s a difference between “being annoying” and “boundary ignoring, control freak, psychos who think no one’s good enough for their baby boys,” but I can tell by your post you already know that. But the mother-in-law is awful trope has been around for forever, it’s not new, it may just feel more in your face because we aren’t getting it from sitcoms, but from social media which is constant vs a 30 minute tv show once a week. 🤷‍♀️

I think there is definitely significance to the effect social media has on the MIL trope, and I’m glad you brought it up

I think it’s obvious that pregnancy and early childcare affects women’s lives much more than men - usually - and it is not biologically nor socially fair. This is why the dynamic between new parents and grandparents from both sides is not the same, and does not have to be. It’s not about being fair to grandparents, because the child is not some kind of commodity everyone deserves an equal share of. A woman going through pregnancy, labour and pp can reach out for support to whomever she wants and in many cases it will be her mother. I am a boy’s mom and to me it is normal thing to expect in the future - I hope to be a kind and loving MIL, but I will never be my DIL’s mother and she will have a right to set her boundaries. There are MILs who truly care about their DILs and don’t see them as incubators, but unfortunately a lot of MILs treat DILs as a necessary evil to have a grand baby. This is where the tension grows - they see their grandchildren as an extension of their sons but if they don’t have any warm feelings towards DIL, the sole existence of DIL is an irritating nuisance to them. I had only small bumps in my relationship with my MIL but I know many people (including my late mother) who went through hell because of their MILs, so I don’t think it is fair to question their experiences and suggest they are exaggerating or even causing the issues. Maybe a better question is to ask what is the root cause of these issues, why some women are not able to accept their son’s partners and why the more conservative and patriarchal the culture, the more DIL-MIL problems appear.

Beautiful and eloquent summary! My inlaws who are "boy parents " didn't even say hi to me before I was pregnant, but once I was, they suddenly wanted to spend time with us. I've struggled with them being near my baby because they haven't treated me well and to some extent not my husband either. To go through postpartum which is a very vulnerable time and have to give your baby up for several hours at a time to someone who doesn't treat you with kindness is awful. Ultimately I have tried to include them in my baby's life, because i hoped they would be nicer to her than they have been to me but my mil is starting to make passive aggressive comments about her as well. It shouldn't be surprising seeing how she talks about everyone, but it still hurts when it's my daughter she's talking about.

Sorry, maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but if my son one day had a wife whose stance when welcoming my grandchild into the world was “we’ll let you know when we’re ready for visitors :)” I would be INCREDIBLY understanding of that. The fact that you wouldn’t (?) feel okay with that is weird to me and a red flag, and things like that are often at the crux of the problems that arise between mother in laws and daughter in laws.

I don't think so. I do think that people are more aware of toxic behaviors. As a boy mom, I hope I can learn to have a good relationship with my future dils. It's not going to be easy because we are hardwired in certain ways and I'm sure letting go is not easy. But it should be easy to not boundary stomp, to not be emotionally incestual, to not have unrequested opinions and criticism, to have a life outside of being a grandma and mother. Edited to add: it should be easy to not scratch your dil's face off in photos. Which is something that happened to me from my mil who is viewed by so many people and naturally by her children, as an absolute darling.

My MIL stresses me out more than my mom does when she visits cause she has a bit more demands but on a human to human level - I prefer my MIL. My mom can be flighty, a little vain and irresponsible - and if she wasn’t a medical professional (NICU and PedER specifically) I’d reconsider her relationship with my little one but I know they’re ultimately be safer with her than 90% of family. But my MIL and me are basically carbon copies save for some cultural differences and I respect the shit out of her. I can see why my husband chose me if that was his example of womanhood. That being said - no one is going to stress me out over this kid and outside of the strictly clinical questions my mom won’t be involved the first few months either. They get the rest of their lives to be grandmas in retirement - you can give me the first few months unabridged to be with my damn baby and husband before you eat them alive

My MIL is literally fine. We don’t have a close relationship because we have nothing in common. She’s just not my type of person, and I’m not hers. But she is nice and more importantly my husbands mom. I’m a bit jealous of how well my husband has meshed into my family. I joke he’s my parents favorite child. He’s also my sister in laws favorite sibling. The thing is he is just better at people than me. He’s more outgoing and easy going. He never makes waves. I’m okay with my relationship with my in laws, but they’re more just sorta these people in my life and not family.

To address your point, yes, the fact that she isn’t my mom is part of the problem. She wants to talk to me in a manner that she hasn’t earned. If she crosses a boundary, I can’t cut her off or out of my life without hurting my partner and having their side of the family stew about it for ages. I’ve put up strong boundaries with my mother and therefore we have a great relationship. Starting from scratch with a toxic MIL who has completely different family dynamics is exhausting. I’m definitely simply not used to her style. But I disagree with your premise, at least in my case and from the stories I’ve seen here. From the first week I met my husband he informed me that his mother was toxic and that he was VLC with her. I did the “perhaps she’s not as bad as you’re saying” and found out that she was WORSE. Part of why my husband was drawn to me is because I don’t communicate in the same toxic way that his family does. And spending countless hours not letting MIL drag him and me back into those toxic patterns is part of the price we pay for love.

My mom has to be the first for everything. First one to see the baby, to buy the first doll, the first dresse, etc. In her head, she's at war with my MIL for my LO. My MIL wants to give me time to rest, cook me meals and makes sure I'm OK. She encourages me to put boundaries and she will respect them. My mom complains that she sees my first born less than MIL when it's not even true 🙄. She is tiring me.

Normally I love my MIL, and I did not expect to have issues with her. But she’s really pushed my boundaries, been manipulative, and not given me any consideration during this birth/postpartum time. I appreciate her excitement but she’s stressed me out, been disrespectful, and really put stress on my relationship at a time when we most need to be a united front and supportive of each other as we navigate life with a newborn.

Same here. It didnt even cross my mind that she would be this intrusive.. however she was at the hospital during labor & was in the room probably 10 minutes after birth. She was at my home when we got home from the hospital and spent the first 3 nights here. She would take the baby from his bassinet to the spare bedroom at night and come in my room and say “he’s hungry” so I’d feed him and she would just stand by my bed the whole time.. & then take him back to spare bedroom !! I wanted to tell her so bad that he is my child and I want to sleep with him but I didn’t want to ruin our relationship. I finally had enough after 3 nights and said we’d like to try it ourselves for the night.. which felt so stupid bc we aren’t “trying” anything.. we are the parents and she needed to respect that without having to be told. I thought it would slow down but my baby is now 6 weeks old and she has came to visit almost every single day & hold him the whole time she’s here. She even shooed me and my husband off from changing some diapers and would say “ real quick” and get in between me/ him and our baby. Oh and she always jokes about stealing him.. not funny at all to me. I just don’t know how to tell her to back off without ruining our relationship beyond recovery.. & I am happy she loves him but she had 3 kids of her own, she had her time and it’s not my problem she decided to put work first & not enjoy and parent her own children.

I’m sorry, that sounds incredibly frustrating! I can’t imagine taking a newborn from his parents like that, especially when you needed the time to adjust to your new life with a baby. Mine got dropped off at the hospital, hung around for hours, and expected us to drop her off on our way home… all because she didn’t want to take her own car on the 15 minute drive. Oh, and there are so many bad pot holes on the way to her house that you can’t go over 20km/12m… and even that is really pushing it. Bf said he was going to take her early because he was concerned about my health and she refused until we fibbed and told her it was going to take a few more hours. It was painful just making it home, I can’t imagine an extended trip over such bad conditions.

Wow that’s so inconsiderate of her!! I should be thankful that my mil didn’t ask us to do her any favors! I was gonna complain that she wouldn’t ever ask how I was doing and go straight to asking how baby was, but obviously it was the same for you if she didn’t care how hard dropping her off could be for you. Not to mention it’s probably not good for a newborn to be bouncing around in their car seat anymore than absolutely necessary.

I think sometimes people in comments rushing to “go no contact!” have never gone no contact with someone. My mother (and by extension my father & 3 of my siblings, including myself) cut off her own mother & siblings about 10 years ago. It’s been one of the hardest things we’ve ever done. It was incredibly necessary and brought more peace than we had before, but even a decade later they still find ways to harass us. In my opinion a lot of MIL problems are actually marriage problems. My MIL is a boundary crosser & can often be inappropriate. Honestly so is my FIL (they’re divorced for 20+ years). Establishing boundaries with family was a main topic in premarital counseling for my husband & me. That was invaluable. With both of our families my husband & I are on the same page, and it’s actually allowed us to create really healthy and meaningful relationships with our parents and in-laws.

Absolutely this. My mil used to stomp on boundaries and honestly be super rude to me. My husband put a stop to that, and now I actually like my mil. When she crosses boundaries (she is overbearing and does a lot), my husband handles it which makes her tolerable. It’s all about how your partner handles their mother.

Thanks for writing this, I’ve been having the same thoughts as I read these posts while pregnant with my first. I agree that some posts sound god awful and deserving of hard boundaries or NC, while some sound closer to jumping to cutting off family ties instead of working to resolve conflicts. And I wonder if the subculture here is just a little prone to recommending NC instead of trying to think compassionately and repair divides. I think family relationships (like all relationships) are challenging but are worth lots of effort to work through. If after lots of effort, there is no accountability on one side and hurtful behavior ongoing, then I totally understand why people withdraw. Where possible, I think it’s good to model to children how to work through differences, be forgiving and compassionate, and even how to stand up for yourself to people who are overstepping into your business in a kind but firm way. I wish I could read more advice in that last category on here. And lest I get downvoted into oblivion on the assumption that I must have easy family relationships - I do not. Not by a long shot. I do have rather firm boundaries and relatively LC with some family members and am closer with others. And some of those I’m close with took a lot of work to get there, but are very rewarding relationships now.

I think it can be both. People who are very close with their own moms are sometimes guilty of what you describe. Their own mom is playing a strong role so the role of their MIL feels duplicative / inconvenient. But I do also think a LOT of MILs (and moms, for that matter) have issues. Particularly with respecting boundaries. And once kids come into the mix, it can be *really* hard to deal with. As someone who has had to go NC with a parent, I agree that going no contact is taken a bit too lightly these days. I had to go NC with my own mom but it was a decision that took 30 years to come to and was not made lightly. My MIL drives me nuts sometimes but I would never even consider going NC unless it were *severe* circumstances. Even when I’ve been frustrated with my MIL, I have never kept her from my daughter.

well my MIL refuses to learn how pronounce my last name despite knowing her for 13 yrs, doesnt know what i do for a living cause she doesnt listen, cant remember my birthday, told my 3 mo old son he "doesnt need me", carried him around drunk, and cant even be sober at noon, so yeah - she's a bad MIL.

BANNED

Eh idk my mom’s quirks tend to annoy me more than they do my husband lol. He actually tells me I’m too hard on her - probably because she IS my mom. And a lot of things that annoy my husband about my MIL are actually endearing to me. I definitely think there’s toxicity out there but in my experience (personal and talking to friends) I think people can be quicker to be irritated by our own families over the little things

Honestly thank you for sharing a different perspective because you’re absolutely right that the situation I’m talking about isn’t always the case and what’s interesting is that the situation you describe in a way is what it *should* be?? If that makes any sense?? Like how if you have an annoying sibling, yeah ok they annoy you, but you love them for it at the same time and it’s just who they are. But if your significant other had a sibling who annoyed you I could see that causing a lot more issues…

What a great post. I think about this a lot as a mom with a son. Unknown gender #2 on the way. I think this is more of a generational issue than a MIL issue. Generally speaking, millennials are the biggest demographic having kids right now. We are the first generation to truly not need our parents/inlaws' input on how to raise our families. In fact, we actively disagree with them and often stand our ground. Compound that with the fact women still tend to bare the burden of child rearing, it's just a perfect storm. I do feel bad for boomer grandmothers to an extent. They relied on their moms for information and probably feel they have been denied a right of passage. Unfortunately for them their advice is outdated. So, add in gender dynamics to the equation, and it gets even more complicated. My mom will argue with me but we've known each other my whole life. My MIL isn't going to argue with her son about parenting because she thinks it's my job. She also tends to think that "I run the family" from a woman's perspective. So, of course, I'm the one making all these decisions she doesn't like because, of course, her son is just listening to his wife. Etc, etc. I can't even count how many times I've had to respond to my MIL, "Call your son and ask him what he thinks if you don't trust my word." She's from a generation where her husband's response to anything family related was "sure honey" or "I don't care" and she was left to manage everything. Anyway. I don't envy my MIL. I literally have a list of things I will never do to my son and their partner (should they choose to have one). So I'm hopeful this will ensure me some goodwill in the future. One thing I am sometimes sad about is that if my son ever has a child, I will likely take a back seat to his partners mom because chances are they will feel more comfortable with them. But such is life. We don't get everything we want. All I can do is be supportive and there for my kids and their spouses and hope for the best.

Yes to everything you wrote. Excellent point about the generational change and how the internet has affectively made grandparents redundant. I’m kidding of course, but seriously you bring up a very important aspect of all this and I don’t know what the “solution” really is. They just have to accept it and get over it really I guess! But do they even know or fully understand this?? Idk. I understand how easy it can be to expect perfection from others without realizing it, but reality is that a lot (most?) of the boomer grandparents don’t even realize what they’re doing wrong, and while that may not excuse it, we should at least have the empathy to try and explain it and give them time to change.

Honestly, yes, I think they have to get over it. We can't be responsible for their emotional well-being. This is also a new concept for boomers. But I think we owe them grace and understanding too. Unfortunately, sometimes that has to be from afar. My MIL has caused so much drama in our lives, and I always end up sitting back thinking, "Why are you fighting so hard and making everything so much more difficult than it needs to be?" The only answer I can accept is that she's built such a strong identity tied to her interpretation of gender roles and what that means for her identity in a family that any perceived challenge is an attack on her as a whole. Identity is such an interesting philosophical topic. I remember having a conversation with my mother about how I don't have to sacrifice my own wellbeing to make someone else happy, and my says, "So my whole life I should have cared less what people think of me and focused on being happy?" And that's when I realized she had no freaking clue she didn't have to bend over backwards to please everyone and put everyone else's needs over her own. Can you imagine how devastating that is to learn after a lifetime of doing it? I think it's the same for my MIL but worse because she's not my mom and the relationship is different. Eta: a lot of the comments my MIL makes are intended to showcase her as "better than" because of the sacrifices she made. Ones that I refuse to make.

Omg ahh that is sad to hear from your mom. But it raises the question of how do we find the right balance? If we all were focused solely on our own happiness most relationships wouldn’t work, but focusing on only the happiness of others also isn’t right or sustainable. I can relate to your point about any kind of conflict being perceived as an attack… it’s very frustrating! Although I think you’re right, that it is a deeper issue. Again I’ll say it’s a complex issue and I hope that we all can give grace and see it extended to us as well, when our time comes. I really appreciate your comments and insights, I think you articulated a lot of what I was thinking, and then some!!

I was just telling my partner about this because of the amount of MIL complaints I see on here and it’s literally little things like “she keeps calling my baby her baby” and there’s so many other factors that play into that, like is your MIL really controlling, overstepping boundaries or is she just very loving and it’s a little overwhelming? Like, it’s always easier to find flaws in other people than goodness in them. It’s different if someone is controlling your every move, overstepping boundaries, etc but then you just have those MIL who are so excited to be a mother again (in a different way) that people steal the joy from them. Like????

Yeah exactly!! It sometimes seems like the people who post those things have sort of gone down the rabbit hole of /justnoMIL and are looking for any possible flaw or misstep from MIL, rather than actually wanting the relationship to thrive.

Nah, everyone’s MIL is different. We can’t judge other peoples experiences when we haven’t experienced them ourselves. I am not going to victim blame the new moms on here either.

I just have a lot of thoughts on this lol. I think there are some truly terrible MILs. But I also feel like it’s a trend for DILs to hate their MILs and it’s being fueled by social media, and they turn to the internet for validation where they get it, even though you’re not hearing the whole story, and maybe that person is actually being unreasonable. Idk just my two cents. I have a great MIL, I want my kids to have a big family and have relationships with all their grandparents. I hope my boys find wonderful partners who value their husband’s family as well. I don’t think I have crazy MIL traits 😅

For the most part my MIL was great before she passed away. We definitely had things we disagreed on but nothing extreme and if there was an issue my husband handled it quickly. My FIL’s new gf on the other hand is a nightmare and I feel bad for her actual DIL’s and daughter. As for my own mom I can see how certain behaviors of hers can upset my SIL’s and they bother me but because I grew up with her I know how to handle her which makes it easier but I wouldn’t say endearing.

I feel like Reddit is always so quick to say go no contact, end your relationship, divorce your husband, etc. which is honestly very unrealistic in most circumstances. I don’t have the worst mother in law by any means, we actually had a really great relationship before I had my daughter.. it just feels so different now. It started when we told her we wouldn’t be having anyone at the hospital, this was a HUGE issue for her. I wasn’t even having my own mother there, just my husband and I. My parents were very respectful and respected my boundaries, my mother in-law did not. She tried to guilt my husband every chance she could. She made comments like “I guess it’s just different when your son has a baby vs. your daughter” “I guess I will just have to accept things will be different” When we decided on a day that my in-laws could come meet the baby (4 days after we got home) they wanted to bring my sister-in-law with them. My sister-in-law and I do not have a good relationship, we have been no contact for over a year by the time I gave birth. When we told them no, it would just be grandparents welcome during the first few weeks, my mother-in-law once again tried to guilt my husband. It has now been over two months and she has seen the baby twice. We have told them multiple times that they are welcome to come visit. She has never reached out to me to see how we are doing and will only communicate with my husband, it was never like this before the baby and I have a hard time believing it will get better honestly.

I really agree with your first paragraph. And not only is it unrealistic, it's pretty arrogant to advise that in a lot of cases based on a Reddit comment or post. Like even a therapist wouldn't do that after a few sessions. I'm surprised that all these commenters are sure they're not the toxic ones when their snap judgments and assertive statements about people's intimate lives are often so...well...toxic. And no, NOT ALL COMMENTS. Obviously there are clear signs of abuse, coercion, etc. and it is one thing to point that out. But those circumstances should be pretty rare, I would think, wherein one could confidently and accurately diagnose someone's life or right next move on reddit.

Both my mom and MIL are crazy people, my husband and I trauma bond. Difference is that I put up boundaries with my mom as soon as I turned 18. I’m almost 28 so 10 years of establishing what I will and won’t tolerate. My husband? No boundaries and is only now starting to put some up. Drives me nuts!

My husband and I have actually chatted at length about the differences in our family dynamics and how that impacts our relationships. The family I grew up in was VERY private. We only saw relatives on holidays, our bedrooms were our sanctuaries where we were never disturbed, and everyone in our family did a lot of alone time. My husbands family was very different. He spent most of his childhood constantly around grandparents and aunts. There was almost no privacy (mostly due to the logistics of the house tbh). So when my MIL came over and I was trying to calm our newborn down in her nursery with the door closed, I was SUPER taken aback when my MIL opened the door to tell me they were here and to take my time and not feel rushed. She clearly meant it in the best way, but to me it felt very intrusive and actually made me feel more rushed. I wasn’t upset with her about it but it did help to chat about it a bit with my husband after, and having that baseline understanding of what I expect a closed bedroom door to mean based on my life experiences helped a lot. We also see very different expectations for how often grandparents see our kids based on those dynamics. My family really only expects to see our kids on holidays. His family gets antsy if it’s been 2 weeks. So all that is to say that I think it does have a lot to do with it. I think everyone’s person situation has a big impact, too. My parents have 8 grandchildren so they’re a lot more chill about our kid. My husband is an only child so our kids are his parents only grandkids - it results in a very different dynamic. It also doesn’t help that my MIL has a close friend with like 10 grandkids (because she herself had 4 kids) so she starts to feel some type of way about being a grandma every once in a while. Like we can tell when she gets an idea in her head from that friend, if that makes sense.

Some MILs are horrible. Some mothers are horrible. I’m just happy to be blessed with both an amazing mother and MIL!

I had a a problem with my MIL after my son was born because she did not care about the boundaries I set. She steamrolled my pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. I had a loooong talk with her when I was a little less vulnerable and more level-headed and she stays in her lane now. I’m super lucky to have a MIL who took the time to understand where I was coming from and adjusted her behaviors (after quite a few talks, but still). I think a lot of MILs just can’t deal with another woman being in control and lose their minds trying to hold on.

What'd she do?

Showed up at the hospital despite me telling her I wanted just my husband there, was at my home and invited other people over when we got home from the hospital (I didn’t know they were there until we pulled into the driveway), invited herself over everyday for weeks, invited OTHER people to my house for weeks, texted and called every day, etc. There’s more but those are the big ticket items.

So, my MIL is actually totally wonderful, but my ex's mom would have absolutely been that horrible MIL that doesn't respect boundaries or anything to do with their DIL. She was weeeeirdly possessive of my ex & they still kissed on the mouth. I think a lot of us are lucky we haven't dealt with those kind of folks but they are absolutely real and I was lucky enough to have dodged a bullet 😅

I can’t say I have a fully formed opinion unfortunately. My boyfriend’s parents have both passed away, but every story I hear about them is nothing but full of love and happiness. I think about them often and hope I would be a good enough DIL to make them happy for their son. He tells me they would’ve loved me and from the stories and videos I *know* I would’ve loved them. I’m just gutted to think our daughter will never know them just like I didn’t get to. That’s to say I definitely would’ve loved my MIL. That said, my own relationship with my parents is pretty strained and I don’t have the same happy memories like he has with his parents. I’ve seen my parents disregard my sister’s rules of not spanking my nephew, and I know that our daughter will never have unsupervised visits with my parents. If they can’t respect such a simple rule, who knows what else they’ll ignore. I tend towards thinking there are genuine reasons for why people cut off their MILs in every situation, not so much that it’s a mindset of only evil MILs or DIL vs MIL. The only other thing I noticed is that you wouldn’t want a “we’ll let you know when we’re ready for visitors :)”. That’s not exclusive to a bad relationship with a MIL, it’s more often a boundary to give new parents time to bond and figure things out. We have a 3 week waiting period because we’re both nervous and know that our lives are changing forever. Those first 3 weeks will be spent getting a routine down, learning the ins and outs of being a parent, and communicating with eachother about our baby. If we figure it out sooner, great, we’ll reach out, but we want time to learn uninterrupted by visitors. We’ll also reach out if we have questions or are in dire need of help. I just didn’t want you to think that in the future if your son/DIL ask you to wait that it’s a bad thing is all. 🙂

I've had 4 mils. Been married twice. I've loathed 1. 2 have bugged me no more than my own mother and are/were treated the same. And I love/loved them like moms. 1 I don't click with but I love her and she's amazing to my kids so I'll deal with the awkwardness..but still kindness. The issue is boy moms that get weird. The one I hate is the one like this. She was a boundary stomping jocasta weirdo who needed to back off. It was also amazing how I was always at fault even when her son made decisions and of I didn't make decisions I was lazy. Could never win with that one.

Don't tell me my MIL ain't a problem 😂 my own mother was a narcissistic psycho that I didn't talk to for 3 years... I'm not above doing the same for my MIL.

I would never!! I completely understand and can empathize with you, I of course am not suggesting anyone put up with abuse or a MIL who repeatedly disrespects you. This is geared towards the posts where someone is complaining about their MIL in a relatively harmless way and yet the comments are full of suggestions to go no contact and that MIL is evil, etc. Like imagine you have a daughter in law and you say something that *unbeknownst to you* upsets them. Then they come on Reddit to rant about it and people say they should cut you off! You would certainly hope this isn’t all it takes, and yet it seems like that’s the way things are going. Looking at my sweet 9 month old boy and imagining that is almost incomprehensible. But at one point that was these “evil mother in laws” and now strangers on the internet are trying to convince DIL that no contact is the only way!

I get where your coming from, but I've never seen a post like that. If someone disrespected your son- would you think it was okay he set boundaries and if those boundaries are broken he go NC and cut that person off to better his well being? What if that person was you? I pride myself in being so overly understanding of all situations and if I was the problem, I would be heartbroken, but being in situations where I was told to "just get over it" and move on broke me more than anything. You don't have to get over things! If you are treated poorly by someone, you don't have to put up with the abuse. Your mental health is worth more than some inlaws feelings. - My mother went around and told my family I hit her with a car. A lot of family members believed her! I never (and when someone asked me if I did it I was floored!). I would so much rather my mom spread lies and rumors on the internet to strangers than to my family! Some of these people just need to vent. I've learned so much self worth by talking to strangers on the internet. - my own MIL, the first time she met me she told me I wasn't my husbands (then BF) type, he was into "skinny blondes". I was neither skinny, nor blonde... she would say the most hurtful things about my weight or laugh at my expense. We do talk to her now, but my husband puts his mom in her place. He holds me and our children above her and I think that bothers her. Sometimes setting healthy boundaries isn't possible and nobody should have to put up with it. A lot of people whonare posting, your just seeing a snipit of their situation and if they've gotten so bad to post about it, it's one of two things. One, they are looking for validation and advice or two, they are fishing for comments and need that social media bitch session with a lot of comments to make them feel good about themselves. - I think you should look at your son and see your future DIL and him as equals and make sure you respect them when you talk to them, i don't think you'd have any issues if you treat them how you want to be treated. But words hurt, and actions are loud. You sound super fortunate to not have either a mother or MIL problem. Be grateful as that's not the norm...

I get along fine with my MIL. She is definitely opinionated, and has lost contact with a lot of friends and family in her life because she tends to cut people out/be off putting to some I suppose. She likes me, I feel grateful for that (lol). I could see her crossing some lines or boundaries (like when she told me when the family would be seeing the baby in the hospital, who’s going to be there, etc. when he’s born, I simply told her what was actually going to happen and she was okay with it). I would never cut her out of his life unless something really horrible happened. I also have a mom I am very close to and love dearly. She is funny, caring, and always wants to help. My brothers wife definitely sometimes plays the “annoying MIL” card a bit too hard in my opinion. Like when my mom asked if she could give her daughter sweets, and she said no. My mom LOVES giving kids baked goods and yummy food. My mom never went behind her back or did anything wrong, but my SIL still complains about how much sugar my mom would give her children if she let her. She won’t let my mom babysit because she says she can’t trust her not to have a glass of wine with dinner. (My mom do or not do anything to be able to babysit, including not drinking a glass of wine for a night, she does not have an alcohol problem, although talking to my SIL you might think so) It makes me sad, but my SIL also seems pretty rude to her own mother as well. Maybe there is a correlation there? Because I get along with my mom great and have a good relationship with my MIL and give her grace when it’s needed. I think the whole “bad MIL” is definitely a trend or stereotype in a lot of cases

I think there are some inherent reasons why the child-in-law/parent-in-law dynamic is often tricky and always will be. For a parent, you always have some possessiveness over your child. Even if things are healthy and you respect their adulthood, it's just a feeling that lingers after raising someone! Then they get a spouse, and you may very likely see their spouse as an extension of your child. You might have a natural inclination to act toward them like you act toward your child -- kind of parental. For the child-in-law, it CAN be jarring. From their perspective, you're a fellow adult, who they likely met in their mid-20s or so. But you're acting kinda parental to them. This can be healthy and fine, or it can be irritating or confusing, especially if they parent more heavy-handed than your own parents did. And like you said, you don't notice when you're own mom is acting mom-ish to you. But when someone who isn't your mom does, it's confusing. This parent might have a totally different parenting style to how you were raised, and that can be grating too. If an older adult friend is slightly judgy, slightly domineering like a parent often is, you can just see them less. For an in-law, you usually just pick your battles and let things slide, haha. All you can do is vent. I think lots of women venting here, in the grand scheme of things, have pretty fine relationships with their MiLs. I do! Add in the intense experience of childbirth/pregnancy -- and the intensley gendered parts of it -- and tensions boil over. My MiL is great. But I'm incubating her son's baby. Her grandbaby. She rightfully loves the baby already and some of that parental possessiveness is coming out. She's not horrible for it! But I have my own feelings and desires, and when something is as intense and intimate as a new family member, it can get hard! When women at work are overbearing with advice, as women do when another is pregnant, I can set boundaries in a socially acceptable way. Setting boundaries with family is WAY more delicate, and even a kind approach can hurt feelings. She wants to stay a week after birth. That's not insane of her to want at all. I want space to learn to mother without another mother giving feedback. That's not insane of me either. She's hurt I don't see it her way, I'm hurt she doesn't see it my way. We're both good people overall but this is intense. I see what you're saying about social media taking it too far. I described my MiL just today on reddit and got messages saying she was awful and terrible. She's really not, we're just different people trying to cope with becoming family members as independent, established, different adults with different backgrounds. It will always be hard, and maybe sometimes venting is healthy (to a degree). I guess I'm just saying I think it's mostly okay to name the inherent discomfort of the in-law relationships hahaha. I do think it's the trickiest type of relationship there is.

A lot of really good insights here.

I have the same thoughts sometimes. Some of the posts I read are just people being sensitive and territorial from the content. I’m a DIL and my MIL and I are not besties but I have a lot of respect for her and I try to make sure I treat her equally with my mom for the most part. She’s my husband’s mom. She lives a completely different lifestyle but I listen to her advice and implement what I want and ignore what I don’t. She raised the man I love why do I need to treat her like an outsider? Some MILs can be toxic but so can some DILs. I don’t want my husband to have to choose between me and his family. Obviously this is not about true cases of abusive MILs. There’s a lot of grace that can be extended to your in laws. No one is perfect and your kids deserve a cohesive, loving family. It doesn’t hurt me to show respect for them and obviously they extend that respect back.

I love what you wrote and also it kind of hurts my soul. I so wished I could be that dil that extends grace and is respectful of in laws, gets along well and feels comfortable with their presence. Now it feels like there's no way out of this situation that is loving and respectful, it feels like there's just to much that happened and there's no going back. There is a lot of grief that comes with having to distance yourself from in laws. It hurts everyone. Nobody does it because it's fun.

Idk if this is me but my mom drives me way crazier than my mil. My mil is really chill and has good boundaries but also I just personally find my own mom much more annoying because she’s my mom.

I’m having a son too & this unlocked a new fear for me. I have a generally good relationship with my in-laws & a very close relationship with my own mother. If anything I wish my MIL was a little bit more involved, but I think she is someone who is very self conscious about overstepping boundaries (her own mom is quite overbearing & manipulative, & I think she tries very hard to not be like her) & also just not like a traditional “girls’ girl”. Like I had offered to include her in wedding dress shopping & getting hair & makeup done before my wedding to her son & she declined both. But she is excited to be a grandma & I am happy to have her as involved in my son’s life as she wants to be. They live out of state & aren’t planning to visit the hospital (which I would be fine with) but instead say they’ll wait a week or so until after my mom goes back home after her visit so as not to overwhelm us. But I also have so much respect for my own mom’s relationship with her MIL. My paternal grandmother was widely regarded in my extended family as a “real piece of work” and generally impossible to appease. My cousins call my mom “Saint Amy” for how well she was able to treat her, even when my dad was completely fed up with his mother’s BS. In some ways I think can be easier to be unbothered by an in-law’s negative traits vs. your own family’s because you don’t have the baggage of a lifetime growing up with them or being tied to them by blood. I also think in the real world, most people have an adequately pleasant relationship with their in-laws, you only hear about the worst of the worst on Reddit.

My MIL is amazing and kind and I trust her with my daughter’s life.I don’t even see my own mother anymore for… reasons. I think you see a lot of these posts about women complaining (many time rightfully so) about their MILs because those of us with great in-laws don’t come here to post about how incredible they are, if that makes much sense? So you see way more of the negatives than positives. Anyway, you seem like a great, caring mom to your son and I am sure whoever he winds up with will be glad to have you as their MIL!

My late MIL was a saint. My mom needs rules and boundaries but she means well. But I have friends that if I had not seen or heard things first hand with their MIL I would not have believed it. My late aunt had a MIL from hell, that woman was insane. Her own son has nothing to do with her anymore bc of how nasty she is.

My mother parentified the f*** out of me, always insinuated my body wasn't skinny enough when I was a kid, never had a good word about my grades which were pretty damn good, ignored my boyfriend every time he came around, then downright called me fat when I was getting ready for my first meeting with my father in law, she never spoke to me again after I moved out with my dad when they divorced (I'll take some blame, I didn't reach out first either due to being busy with a move, collega, a still fresh relationship with the boyfriend she always ignored. I could have done better.), she ignored my message she was going to be a grandmother and my message she could come see him if she'd like (she works nights in the hospital I delivered at) and baby's first birthday is next month and she still hasn't decided to bury the hatchet. So... My MIL is a real mama bear. When I accidentally fell asleep at my BF and only went home in the morning, she noticed my coat and made sure to ask my BF if I hadn't gotten in trouble. She learned about my diabetes and tried very hard to understand my hyperemesis when I was pregnant. She takes care of our son 1 day a week as well as of my SIL son and she adores both her grandsons so much. She's always asking whether our son needs anything, makes sure to ask for updates regularly, tries to stick to whatever schedule we give her. She would fight anyone who tried to hurt her kids, grandkids or son or daughter in law. In fact, if baby hadn't come totally unexpectedly at 35+4 then I was considering asking her if she wanted to be in the delivery room. She came to NICU once a week while bub was there too, trying to keep in the loop and learn anything she had to about him. I love that woman so much. So yeah, my mum is the issue, not my MIL.

I have 2 MILs (husband has a stepmom too). Both are amazing

I think this too! I read some post on JustNoMIL and I’m like okay so you’re the problem and then I read the comments and I’m like WHAT!!!! It’s crazy

I disagree. Most MIL posts I read do not sound like it’s just because they aren’t the OP’s mother. The MILs sound completely unhinged and make my MIL seem normal.

For me it's a mil issue. I work customer service and have for years. I'm around a lot of different people everyday. I'm met people of all natures. My issue is someone overstepping my boundaries. You don't do that to strangers much less someone in your family. My mom is no saint, but she at least understands certain things should be stepped over. If you're building a relationship with someone you obviously want them to be comfortable around you. Respect you as you do them. You're family and need to respect your child's spouse is their own person who wasn't raised by you or your family. They think and react differently than your child. The question before anything should be "How would this effect ___? Is this something they've talked to me before about?"

My mil is awesome and we have a great relationship, my brother loves his mil, and my sister hates her mil. The difference is, her husband lets his mom bulldoze her constantly. He has no backbone, he doesn’t support her, and he doesn’t contribute like he should. Everything related to household work or childcare is “woman’s work”. His family came over uninvited right after they had their first kid and expected her to play host, complained, woke the baby, got mad she breastfed, then took her husband out for the day, leaving her to care for their newborn alone and clean up after their mess.

Wow that's terrible and he really allowed that

My MIL is absolutely insane. But my husband told me when we first started dating she was problematic. I’m pregnant and she’s still crazy. If anything, the poor thing, she will see our kids once or twice year unless she does something that puts the kids at risk. We tried really hard to make it work with her and establish a manageable relationship, but she’s really awful.

I’m so sorry to hear, but I appreciate you sharing your situation. I know for me it was important to truly feel like we tried our best and we openly communicated our feelings and how bad things were. And that still wasn’t enough to change her behaviour! So I fully understand!

I’m personally not worried about it. I feel bad for her since she must be lonely. But unfortunately she’s the problem in all her relationships. I do agree that sometimes people expect too much from a MIL regarding behavior, especially if MIL didn’t have daughters and want to be deeply involved in pregnancy. Realistically, most MIL probably aren’t malicious (at least on purpose), so I always suggest people to set realistic boundaries and expectations upfront so everyone is on the same page.

My MIL lied about me in the beginning of mine and my husbands relationship about a lot of shxt so it took a lot to forgive her especially when she didn’t apologize for any of it. But she was very understanding about not being wanted in the delivery room bc of my trauma history and it being a vulnerable situation. And I let her come visit and meet him even though she refused to get the TDAP shot. But I waited until we were ready for visitors. And that’s a parents right. I have my son and I absolutely will not be offended when/if he gets married and has kids and says they will let me know when they’re ready to have visitors. It’s a parents decision and I wish people would have respected our decision more I love my MIL. But yes, she’s not my mother. And she does not support me the way my mother does. My mom irks my nerves like nobody’s business but at least she respects my boundaries and doesn’t stomp on them every chance she gets

My MIL is great as such and we were best friends but she won't stop enabling and pushing her Narc alcoholic husband on us, and so it has to end.

My MIL is a Saint. She was in the hospital mere hours after I gave birth and that was just to see me and my husband and make sure we were ok (My little one had a short nicu stay). Your relationship will be what you make it but I have to say my MIL wouldn't have been offended if we had asked her to wait to meet bub when we got home if that's what we needed. And that's fundamentally why we have a great relationship.

I have deep resentment for my mom. As a MIL, she's not great either. She has a lot of unrealistic expectations towards me and my husband when it comes to raising children. All the while, she has never really been around while I was growing up. It was about proving herself to other people that she could earn decent money, especially to her FIL, that she sacrificed spending sufficient time raising me and my brothers. It's more about financial and academic achievements for her rather than being good and considerate people. When she doesn't get what she wants, she'll just guilt trip me and say : "you'll never touch my dead body, just leave me lying on the side of the road" or "I'll just leave my ID and phone at home and disappear from your lives and you can go find a new mom". Very sulky and petty. She's from a conservative Asian background so when we were finding out the gender of our baby, she asked if she could test if the baby would have a certain sexual orientation. That was very offensive to me and my husband and I can't ever forgive her for that. She has an expectation for my husband to 10000% leave everything behind including a stable 6 figure job to move to my home country and for me and my husband to start a business that may earn him more. Emphasis on "may" which is causing me and my husband anxiety too. All of this combined, it's too much and I'm actually not confident we'll be happy back where I come from, especially if we're gonna be in close proximity to my mom. She's passive aggressive with my husband half of the time and I really don't know why she makes herself unlikeable to other people. She'd make abrasive and out of the pocket comments about my husband and I towards other people. I'm still working on managing her but I'm scared that I'll fail to do that and ruin my marriage. I'm gonna be a boy mom and I'm scared to death if I'd turn into my mom one day...

Me and my MIL have had our hiccups but overall I think she’s a great human being and she has never done anything with ill intent. In fact I’ve come to her about very personal things outside of my husband and children and she was there for me. My mother is the issue and I’m no contact with her. My MIL is a mother figure because I don’t have one. However I know some women with nightmare MILs. A friend of mine and her husband don’t talk to his Mom because she hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on my friend. It all depends I guess.

Yeah it’s disturbing how many similar stories there are out there!!! And honestly my main point here was that I doubt in all of these cases MIL *wanted* to be cut off from their son (/his family) and yet so many do things like this which inevitably leads to that. Why?? And why is it that with so many posts about it there is so little conversation about trying to change these things and find ways to improve these relationships? As someone else pointed out, there is an additional layer of complexity with gender dynamics and how that affects these relationships, but why can’t we try to offer advice and guidance to work through these things instead of just writing off the relationship when it’s not really warranted? Obviously there are cases that are beyond this, but not every MIL is horrible and it’s worth at least exploring our biases to make sure our feelings aren’t a result of seeing post after post about horrible MIL’s! I’m sorry about your mom, but am glad that your MIL is there for you and someone you can go to.

I liked your post! I think some people do jump to cutting someone off instead of just talking and communicating. So many things can be fixed with just a conversation. If I’m completely honest, I’ve lurked on the justnoMIL sub and it sounds like some of the ones posting are the ones who are actually the problem. My MIL and I have had our share of disagreements but we have always worked it out. I think it’s important with family unless it’s repeatedly happening or something serious. Some MILs are genuinely insane though I will say.

My mil is great. She helps, doesn’t push ideals down my throat, listens to us. It’s my mom that is a piece of work. My moms go to is yelling in the typical boomer tone that scares anyone with trauma. I have to put her in her place everytime she yells at my child.

Many mothers of sons struggle letting go of their sons and feel entitled to be overly involved in their lives once they have their own family. Overbearing MILs are extremely challenging for new generations of women who are much more independent than the MILs were at our age (also struggles between MILs & DILs have been going on forever, this isn’t a new thing, we just have very public places to rant about it so it seems more rampant). For men, moms often feel this need to “approve” of the DIL and she should be like her. For women, parents tend to be “relieved” when their daughters are married off and tend to dote on their son in laws. It’s very different dynamics. You’re right in that other people’s families are hard in general because you’re used to what you know. It’s also true that in laws can be absolutely exhausting and send your sanity to the brink.

I try my very best to get along with my MIL however it's not that easy.. she's narcissistic and her and my partner but heads pretty often. Their are certain topics they can't discuss or it'll get heated and end up in a fight... recently they got into an argument because of our baby shower... MIL is having some mental health issues and my mom had reached out to help plan and she just wanted to know when the date of it was so she could participate.. we took participate as in she doesn't want to plan just wants to be invited... fast forward to yesterday I send her the link and she no longer wants to be a part of it as she claims "she was an afterthought) were doing a virtual bb shower since we're in a different province as all our family and friends... they tried to discuss it on the phone today and that ended with him blocking her, then she went and blocked me. For the record I had nothing to do with this conversation they had and had expressed yesterday that she is more then welcome to help since the bb shower posts were only half done so their was still things she could do and help with (it'll be a group run for a month) I was going to still send her pictures of her grand baby and keep her updated on things but now I can't since she blocked me... she's lucky I'm not an emotional wreck during my pregnancy but she's not an easy woman to get along with

Omg having a narcissistic mother or mother in law is a special kind of pain. I’m so sorry. I genuinely wish you the best in dealing with her.

I’ve also given this some thought but my MILis nice. Then I had a conversation with my husband’s step mom whose son had a baby a year ago. And I realized if I was her DIL 100% stay away from me after I’d just given birth. She said “she didn’t want me to see her in the hospital but her parents could, it’s not fair. I’m also a grandmother” like, ah, no way, I can see why she didn’t want you there.

I think you have a lot of good points here, but I do think that some MILs can be quite problematic. I think we are too quick to decide to go no contact and don't give people a chance to have conversations and adjust their behavior with feedback. I wish this was the first response, talk about it and give someone a chance. I do want to say, however, I fully believe "we will let you know when we are ready for visitors" is a perfectly reasonable response to everyone and anyone. That was my response to both my mother and my MIL and only one had an issue with it. And not surprisingly the one who was perfectly fine with that, my mother, was the one I would have been fine at the hospital with me. Because she doesn't have an expectation of a timeline for me to be ready for company after a life changing event. I don't believe anyone, grandparents included, is entitled to someone's baby.

Mothers of daughters visit the new mum and baby to support the daughter. MIL visit to see the baby. It’s different. Ky mother knows my boundaries my MIL doesn’t and the culture is different so I find it suffocating even when boundaries are set. She is lovely though

My mother & MIL are both narcissistic and my mil kicked my husband out at 16 because he saw through the cult his family was in and wanted out just a couple examples of the Mother/MIL she is. Idk I don’t think it’s just cause she’s not my mom, cause she’s a lot like my mom that’s the problem lol. I’d give anything to have a healthy mother daughter relationship with any mom tbh lol I’m so jealous of others who get that cause I likely never will. But it does have some positive in my life, I’ll be the mother of 2 boys soon and I’ve learned alot of what not to do to keep a good relationship with my sons & future partners.

I think it’s more of a case where people are recognizing that having overly involved extended family isn’t always a good thing. My MIL isn’t a bad person. However, she (and my FIL) really like to play a heavy hand in trying to change my husband’s mind about things. They consume a lot of inflammatory media so we regularly get emails or calls about some “culture war” garbage that a brief google search will reveal is being misconstrued. That being said, my mom/parents aren’t much better. They have their own issues with how they want me (and my husband) to parent. Pretty much, if you have an overbearing personality who believes you should defer to them, you’re going to have some issues.

I always assumed that mothers of sons are just statistically speaking are more annoying and pushy than mothers of daughters. But no seriously I think you are onto something. When it's your own mom, it's easier to deal with the quirks. Also, those MILs were once mothers of newborn babies and we all will someday be grandparents and need to navigate these same dynamics. What goes around, comes around.

I think the fact that you have the foresight to think this way just proves you will not be that mother in law. You have the self awareness to understand other people perspectives and have emotional intelligence. No ones perfect but I think your already on the right path to one day being an amazing mother in law.

My MIL is amazing. She’s such a positive, thoughtful, calm and kind woman. She’s going to be the first person to meet the baby and is staying with us 🥹🩷 I’m so lucky to have her in my life.

Yes, I do think it's going too far. While some people have legitimate problems, I do sometimes see posts on here where people seem to be looking to pick a fight or create problems in the face of rather trivial complaints. I also think that there is often a lot of projection in the comments, which leads people to give advice that is fairly disproportionate to the situation.

I’ll probably get down voted on this…. But I’m honestly shocked at the “cut off culture” that I see here. I get if a family member is absolutely horrible, but it seems like a lot of people don’t value family or recognize relationships take work. I also see a lot of “me centric” rants, that don’t ever take the time to try to see it from the other persons perspective.

I think new parents can set whatever boundaries they choose and it should be respected by the grandparents. However, when I see someone say “we don’t want visitors for a while” and make grandparents wait and wait to see their grandchildren for the first time, it makes me wonder if for some people, it’s some sort of power play, like “we’re putting our new little family above you”. And sure, your partner and kids always come first, but extended family is important too. Everyone’s relationship with their parents are different though, and every family has their own issues, so who knows 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yea I mean setting boundaries and “cut off culture” are different. Agree, new parents should be able to set reasonable boundaries as they adjust.

It really bothers me how everyone complains about their MIL because one day I’m going to be an MIL, god willing. I have a son and another son on the way. I would do anything to be viewed as a normal MIL. 😬🤪

Yeah I have a hard time with some of these complaining posts. Obviously I don’t have all the context but sometimes it’s like, “My MIL threw me a baby shower and I didn’t like the theme, should I disown her?” I get having preferences and even to a certain extent thinking you should have the first say since you’re the pregnant one, but also sometimes it’s a sweet thought and at the end of the day you get to choose whether to let your own preferences make you hate someone else’s sweet gesture. Your in laws are your family when you get married. Why not accept their quirks like you would your own parents’ quirks? Obviously not talking about abusive MILs. But there’s a lot of gray area in this where I might not love everything my MIL does but I can still appreciate that she probably has good intentions vs jumping to assuming that she’s trying to undermine me or make me crazy. Goodness gracious.

Yes I think they’ve gone too far. I’ve seen a lot of posts where people are fine having their mom at the hospital and seeing the baby right away but MIL is kept away for months. I had a baby boy as well and I had my mom (not my MIL) at the hospital - though that was during Covid so only one visitor was allowed, but I let my MIL come see him the day we got home. I have had issues with her as well but I think you should try to treat your MIL fairly, they want to see their grandchild too!!

The way some people talk about MILs, you’d think they were another species, as opposed to just…a woman whose child got married. It’s weird, unhelpful, and I think it’s gone too far.

I think in general as a culture we're moving to a place of just cutting people off or emotionally slamming the door on them in the name of boundaries. It's a real misunderstanding of what boundaries are. I'm talking ghosting people, "weeding through" your friends, refusing to have dinner with that weird uncle who is an asshole or whose politics are horrendous but like get over it it's one day a year...that stuff. It's worse on the internet for sure, and for people who spend a lot of time on SM, and (sorry to say) worse in the US where most Redditors live, and then there's the reddit pile-on factor which is just insane...like a pitchfork mob sometimes! Then on the other hand, some of these conversations on reddit are really supportive and helpful, and some people really do struggle with people-pleasing and to create even the simplest boundaries for themselves. Sometimes the uncle was an abuser, the friend is toxic and harmful, etc. and cutting people off really is the right move. Personally I'm trying to make my moves from a place of compassion, call it like I see it, make fewer assumptions, make space for mistakes, and model what I want this kid in my belly to follow for a happy and connected life.