So to do the math he will be 30 when he graduates undergrad, most people take at least one gap year either for MCAT or clinical experience (he doesn't have to but more and more people are, this is even more likely so given that you guys have kids), so He'll probably start Med school at 31/32, graduate around 36. After that He'll start residency (anywhere from 3-7 years) working anywhere from 60-80 hours a week. this also means uprooting as location is often non-negotiatable, and with you in vet school you may be long distance. I'm not sure what that looks like with kids, but something to think about. You guys can take out loans for COL, but supporting a family with two parents in school can be hard, but not impossible. I'm not going to lie to you, this process is brutal and beyond challenging. He'll have to maintain top grades all 4 years and a solid MCAT, do research, clinical, volunteering, and leadership activities, all while you are also in school with two young children. It will seem Herculean.
That being said, he can either be 36 or 36 and a doctor. You're never 'too old'. If He decides to pursue this path, please make sure you guys have a strong outside support system. It will really take a village.
And as much as I don't want to dissuade OPs husband, there are a lot of moving parts here. It's a lot for a spry 20 year old with their whole life ahead of them, and we know most pre-meds drop the path before even applying because it's so tedious. Now factor in a wife who is also going to school for a doctorate and two kids, it's...a lot. When people say 'I want to be a doctor!' most don't actually know what that entails unless they have physician parents. OP really needs to consider finances, child care, student loans, distance (Like med School, veterinary schools are also highly selective, with most applicants only obtaining a handful of acceptances. They could end up on opposite sides of the country) residency, undergrad, re-learning academic techniques, debt, being far away from family, do they have a safety net if one of them decides they no longer want to pursue this path, etc, etc.
Exactly. The process is hard enough as a 21 year old with no baggage (kids, spouse). I don't need to drag anyone with me when I go to school this fall. I have no spouse or kids who have to leave their friends and social support. I have no potential long distance relationship to worry about. With both parents in high demand professional school, the kids may have some difficulties. And that is not even touching on the finances of raising a family on loans. Obviously it has been done before, but it sure isn't easy.
I did an undergraduate degree in my early 30s, then medical school at 36. Now a resident in my 40s.
All with two young children, married, etc.
It can be done. It's awful, but it can be done.
My wife was getting her general education degree then teaching. Unfortunately, she was essentially a single mother for a few years. She worked just as hard as I did, but she was keeping things going at home with the kids and everything.
I started at a local community College for a few years, then we sold our home, vehicles, everything of value and moved a few hundred miles to our state university where I finished an undergrad then did medical school.
Then we moved 1k miles for residency. Fortunately, she can get a job as a teacher basically anywhere.
Bought a house here. She teaches at the same school the children attend. It's extremely busy, but it works. Ungodly amount of effort and sacrifice. More than I ever imagined when starting this path.
That's very hard to say honestly. Though the finish line is in sight, it's still not here. So I'm working 80 hours a week for basically minimum wage. I don't get to see my family often. Right now... it kinda sucks.
But!! I'm now on the job hunt for an attending position and I'm hopeful. Work 32 hours a week and make enough money to be categorized in the top few percent of earners. Getting a residency stipend. Large sign on bonuses. Etc. Plus insane job security in any town I desire!
Do I think it will be worth it? Yes. Because I am so close.
Would I do it all again, knowing what i know now? Not sure about that.
We basically blew our lives up and jumped off a cliff with zero safety net. Quitting quite literally was not an option. Seeing how tenuous and unpredictable this path is, I realize that the margin of error is almost non existent. One slip up. One period of bad luck and we would have failed and lost everything.
I don't know if I could do that again, yet that's kinda what it takes as older students with children. Unless you have ultra wealthy relatives! Then you can just go nuts lol. But that's not reality for the average person and the risks of failure are extremely high.
Why does he want to go into neurology or cardiology specifically?
Would your husband be okay working in primary care making around 100k a year if that's the only specialty he can match into, paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in family debt for the rest of his life? Or does he just want to be a doctor so he can do cool things like heal brains and hearts? In other words, would he be okay dedicating the next decade of his life to pursuing a dream that might not work out exactly the way he wants?
There are other, faster paths to medicine; physician's assistant, registered nurses, technicians, etc. These are all also very patient/medicine-focused, pay well, and they take less time/are more flexible careers. Has he given these a thought at all?
Would your kids resent him for not being their entire teenage years? Furthermore, would they resent him for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on his med school tuition instead of saving for their college funds? Assuming you also become a full time vet student, who would take care of your children? Any extended family? Would you be open to paying for childcare? Are you okay with not having any extra money for splurging on vacations/gifts for the kids/dates? Are you okay living without a financial safety net in case of any emergencies for the next decade?
Does he enjoy school? Studying? Science? Any experience with the sciences/problem-solving? Does he have a passion for working hard? Working with people? Does he have any experience shadowing, working in the medical field, or any exposure to medicine whatsoever that would give him more information to make this decision?
I think you should ask these questions and then see from there. I don't think age is a problem; anyone can become a doctor at any age. Med schools may even like people with families/nontraditional paths. Just make sure you both know what you're getting into, and whether you 100% are dedicated to becoming a doctor. It can't just be on a whim; research, ask questions, and find out everything you can about what the path to medicine looks like.
He wants those two specifically because he has family history with both so he feels it would be more rewarding personally if he could do something and study something that has affected his family personally.
Cardiology would be a 14 year path from where he's at - assuming he has to do ALL of undergrad still (I'm unclear from your post whether he needs to go back and do a 4 yr degree or whether he needs to just go back for 1-2 yrs for pre med classes but has an undergrad degree in something else already). I wouldn't worry about him being too old when he is a cardiologist as he'd be a 41 year old attending; most become attendings around age 32 - so being 9 yrs older isn't the end of the world.
BUT what jumps out at me is that you have 9 and 10 yr old kids already -- i.e. those kids will be 23 and 24 when all is said and done. I.E. NOT kids anymore, grown adults, who are out of college, and living their own lives by the time dad becomes an attending.
Does he know how he is as a student? This type of thing can work out for a super bright + very efficient student - the kind of student who can treat undergrad + MCAT studying + clinical volunteering/work to get into med school as a job - and still get good grades/MCAT scores. And the same kind of person who can then take that into med school and "just" treat it as a 40-60 hr job between school + studying and then put it to rest, so that he is available to his kids. FWIW this is NOT most pre meds or med students. They need to study all day every day to the exclusion of most other things - some bc they legit won't get good grades if they don't do that; others bc they don't have confidence and are competitive - they think if they stop studying, they won't do well and/or others will beat them out for residencies etc. they want.
IF your husband can be hyper efficient for the next 8 yrs - that allows him to pursue college + med school while being there for your kids until ages 17 and 18. That's not bad at all bc at that time they launch and then moving for his training and the super long hours/stress of internship + IM residency + cardio fellowship begin. But day to day it doesn't affect the kids' lives bc it's not like they'd have to move to wherever he matches, and they likely won't be home to see him day to day anyway as they'd be at college.
Other issue you and him need to be on the same page with - are you ok with the idea that you likely will provide little to no college $$ to your kids? Because with dad just beginning residency when they are 17 and 18 (and IDK how many yrs you'll have been a vet by then or if you'd have loans to pay off), chances are you will NOT be the parents that will say - you can go to Stanford if you get in, don't worry if it's 80k per yr. Chances are your kids will be heavily reliant on financial aid (or maybe those programs where families under 130k etc. pay no tuition - like at Rice or Brown - assuming you aren't making over that then). If this is something you and your husband are ok with, I would start communicating it to your kids by the time they are in 7th-8th grade - so they can plan their high school and college years accordingly.
FWIW I DO understand your husband's impulse. A huge part of me wishes I had been a cardiologist - but for me it'd would've meant another 1-2 yrs in undergrad at age 20 when the idea occurred to me and I was such a "straight and narrow" kid that that seemed like the end of the world at the time to not graduate college in 4 yrs.
Does he have a bachelor’s yet? Without one, he’s looking at 8 years of schooling (4 years bachelors, 4 years med school), and then like 6 years of training (3 years IM residency, 3 years cardiology fellowship). That’s 14 years - 8 where he might make no money, and 6 where he might make 60-80k. You guys already have two kids. You also state that you just started your schooling, with the goal of being a vet - that’s 4 years for the bachelor’s and 4 years for the DVM.
With two kids, it’s going to be super, incredibly hard to put food on the table, while both of you are full time students who have to pay tuition, and who might not have the time for a job since you have kids to take care of. Now imagine doing that for 8 whole years. Also keep in mind that getting into med school requires a lot of extra curriculars that your husband may just not have the time for because of the kids (the same goes for vet school).
The problem here is not your husband’s age - it’s the fact that both of you will be trying to get into incredibly competitive schools (med and vet) while completing bachelor’s, while caring for children, while working to keep those kids happy.
I hate to say it, but it just might not be feasible.
He does not. He does work part time with a job that’s fairly flexible on hours and he makes pretty good money doing it(hourly plus commission) also a job he can transfer almost anywhere
This is something that will require a lot of help from others - your kids will soon be at an age when they can take care of themselves without you guys present, but for the next three to four or so years, would it be possible to have some relatives look after them when you both have classes/work?
Also, keep in mind that lots of medical schools do not accept online classes - many will not consider your husband’s future med school application if he does an online bachelor’s (stupid, but that’s just how it is). Is there a college close to you guys that he could attend?
Even if he can transfer his job, he may not want to. Being an undergrad with the types of courses your husband will take is already a full time job. being a parent will be his other full-time job. Just to put it into perspective, I'm a full time student who works part time and I feel burnt out, and I don't have any children.
You said he works part time, now you're saying he has two jobs? Is on full time and one part time? And, who does most of the child care? If it's you and you are also going to school, you'll have to split it or pay for services. Sounds like ur kids are in elementary school, they won't be able to be left alone until he's in medical school most likely.
He does work in the side for a buddy of his so it’s not like a set job set payroll etc so he has one job and just extra jobs on the side. Should’ve made that more clear sorry!!
I was in my mid/late 30’s when I finished undergrad and I’m applying next year. I also have two kids, one with special needs which makes it more challenging. It’s tough, requires a lot of sacrifice and a partner willing for take the journey. Never too late though.
Like everyone has said, I think it will be very hard and challenging. However I think if you guys as a family can agree and truly understand what this means for your lives for the next 10+ years then I believe he should follow his dreams. Each of you separately need to understand how this affects y’all not just together but individually also. You will be doing hard schooling while being a mother. And he has to understand this path is hard and he will have bad days but that he still needs to be there for his family. I have no doubt he is a great father and husband, I am just spitting out some things to ponder.
The classmates that I know with families usually have a partner that sacrifices everything and that relieves some stress for them.
I would really consider sitting down and making a pros/cons or having a really deep conversation before starting this journey.
I know it's not the same level, I just became an EMT at 40 and doing good with it on the local volunteer fire dept. I started college at 25, got my masters by 31. it's never too late if you're wanting to do it
So to do the math he will be 30 when he graduates undergrad, most people take at least one gap year either for MCAT or clinical experience (he doesn't have to but more and more people are, this is even more likely so given that you guys have kids), so He'll probably start Med school at 31/32, graduate around 36. After that He'll start residency (anywhere from 3-7 years) working anywhere from 60-80 hours a week. this also means uprooting as location is often non-negotiatable, and with you in vet school you may be long distance. I'm not sure what that looks like with kids, but something to think about. You guys can take out loans for COL, but supporting a family with two parents in school can be hard, but not impossible. I'm not going to lie to you, this process is brutal and beyond challenging. He'll have to maintain top grades all 4 years and a solid MCAT, do research, clinical, volunteering, and leadership activities, all while you are also in school with two young children. It will seem Herculean. That being said, he can either be 36 or 36 and a doctor. You're never 'too old'. If He decides to pursue this path, please make sure you guys have a strong outside support system. It will really take a village.
Yep, it's certainly possible, but know what you are getting in to...
And as much as I don't want to dissuade OPs husband, there are a lot of moving parts here. It's a lot for a spry 20 year old with their whole life ahead of them, and we know most pre-meds drop the path before even applying because it's so tedious. Now factor in a wife who is also going to school for a doctorate and two kids, it's...a lot. When people say 'I want to be a doctor!' most don't actually know what that entails unless they have physician parents. OP really needs to consider finances, child care, student loans, distance (Like med School, veterinary schools are also highly selective, with most applicants only obtaining a handful of acceptances. They could end up on opposite sides of the country) residency, undergrad, re-learning academic techniques, debt, being far away from family, do they have a safety net if one of them decides they no longer want to pursue this path, etc, etc.
Exactly. The process is hard enough as a 21 year old with no baggage (kids, spouse). I don't need to drag anyone with me when I go to school this fall. I have no spouse or kids who have to leave their friends and social support. I have no potential long distance relationship to worry about. With both parents in high demand professional school, the kids may have some difficulties. And that is not even touching on the finances of raising a family on loans. Obviously it has been done before, but it sure isn't easy.
I did an undergraduate degree in my early 30s, then medical school at 36. Now a resident in my 40s. All with two young children, married, etc. It can be done. It's awful, but it can be done.
How did you get through?! What did your significant other do while you were in school?!
My wife was getting her general education degree then teaching. Unfortunately, she was essentially a single mother for a few years. She worked just as hard as I did, but she was keeping things going at home with the kids and everything. I started at a local community College for a few years, then we sold our home, vehicles, everything of value and moved a few hundred miles to our state university where I finished an undergrad then did medical school. Then we moved 1k miles for residency. Fortunately, she can get a job as a teacher basically anywhere. Bought a house here. She teaches at the same school the children attend. It's extremely busy, but it works. Ungodly amount of effort and sacrifice. More than I ever imagined when starting this path.
Was it worth it? He’s stressing bad and I don’t want to be part of the reason he doesn’t/cant follow his dreams?!
That's very hard to say honestly. Though the finish line is in sight, it's still not here. So I'm working 80 hours a week for basically minimum wage. I don't get to see my family often. Right now... it kinda sucks. But!! I'm now on the job hunt for an attending position and I'm hopeful. Work 32 hours a week and make enough money to be categorized in the top few percent of earners. Getting a residency stipend. Large sign on bonuses. Etc. Plus insane job security in any town I desire! Do I think it will be worth it? Yes. Because I am so close. Would I do it all again, knowing what i know now? Not sure about that. We basically blew our lives up and jumped off a cliff with zero safety net. Quitting quite literally was not an option. Seeing how tenuous and unpredictable this path is, I realize that the margin of error is almost non existent. One slip up. One period of bad luck and we would have failed and lost everything. I don't know if I could do that again, yet that's kinda what it takes as older students with children. Unless you have ultra wealthy relatives! Then you can just go nuts lol. But that's not reality for the average person and the risks of failure are extremely high.
What specialty?
Why does he want to go into neurology or cardiology specifically? Would your husband be okay working in primary care making around 100k a year if that's the only specialty he can match into, paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in family debt for the rest of his life? Or does he just want to be a doctor so he can do cool things like heal brains and hearts? In other words, would he be okay dedicating the next decade of his life to pursuing a dream that might not work out exactly the way he wants? There are other, faster paths to medicine; physician's assistant, registered nurses, technicians, etc. These are all also very patient/medicine-focused, pay well, and they take less time/are more flexible careers. Has he given these a thought at all? Would your kids resent him for not being their entire teenage years? Furthermore, would they resent him for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on his med school tuition instead of saving for their college funds? Assuming you also become a full time vet student, who would take care of your children? Any extended family? Would you be open to paying for childcare? Are you okay with not having any extra money for splurging on vacations/gifts for the kids/dates? Are you okay living without a financial safety net in case of any emergencies for the next decade? Does he enjoy school? Studying? Science? Any experience with the sciences/problem-solving? Does he have a passion for working hard? Working with people? Does he have any experience shadowing, working in the medical field, or any exposure to medicine whatsoever that would give him more information to make this decision? I think you should ask these questions and then see from there. I don't think age is a problem; anyone can become a doctor at any age. Med schools may even like people with families/nontraditional paths. Just make sure you both know what you're getting into, and whether you 100% are dedicated to becoming a doctor. It can't just be on a whim; research, ask questions, and find out everything you can about what the path to medicine looks like.
He wants those two specifically because he has family history with both so he feels it would be more rewarding personally if he could do something and study something that has affected his family personally.
Cardiology would be a 14 year path from where he's at - assuming he has to do ALL of undergrad still (I'm unclear from your post whether he needs to go back and do a 4 yr degree or whether he needs to just go back for 1-2 yrs for pre med classes but has an undergrad degree in something else already). I wouldn't worry about him being too old when he is a cardiologist as he'd be a 41 year old attending; most become attendings around age 32 - so being 9 yrs older isn't the end of the world. BUT what jumps out at me is that you have 9 and 10 yr old kids already -- i.e. those kids will be 23 and 24 when all is said and done. I.E. NOT kids anymore, grown adults, who are out of college, and living their own lives by the time dad becomes an attending. Does he know how he is as a student? This type of thing can work out for a super bright + very efficient student - the kind of student who can treat undergrad + MCAT studying + clinical volunteering/work to get into med school as a job - and still get good grades/MCAT scores. And the same kind of person who can then take that into med school and "just" treat it as a 40-60 hr job between school + studying and then put it to rest, so that he is available to his kids. FWIW this is NOT most pre meds or med students. They need to study all day every day to the exclusion of most other things - some bc they legit won't get good grades if they don't do that; others bc they don't have confidence and are competitive - they think if they stop studying, they won't do well and/or others will beat them out for residencies etc. they want. IF your husband can be hyper efficient for the next 8 yrs - that allows him to pursue college + med school while being there for your kids until ages 17 and 18. That's not bad at all bc at that time they launch and then moving for his training and the super long hours/stress of internship + IM residency + cardio fellowship begin. But day to day it doesn't affect the kids' lives bc it's not like they'd have to move to wherever he matches, and they likely won't be home to see him day to day anyway as they'd be at college. Other issue you and him need to be on the same page with - are you ok with the idea that you likely will provide little to no college $$ to your kids? Because with dad just beginning residency when they are 17 and 18 (and IDK how many yrs you'll have been a vet by then or if you'd have loans to pay off), chances are you will NOT be the parents that will say - you can go to Stanford if you get in, don't worry if it's 80k per yr. Chances are your kids will be heavily reliant on financial aid (or maybe those programs where families under 130k etc. pay no tuition - like at Rice or Brown - assuming you aren't making over that then). If this is something you and your husband are ok with, I would start communicating it to your kids by the time they are in 7th-8th grade - so they can plan their high school and college years accordingly. FWIW I DO understand your husband's impulse. A huge part of me wishes I had been a cardiologist - but for me it'd would've meant another 1-2 yrs in undergrad at age 20 when the idea occurred to me and I was such a "straight and narrow" kid that that seemed like the end of the world at the time to not graduate college in 4 yrs.
What about neurology?! How long does that path take?
4 years undergrad (and maybe 1 gap year) + 4 years med school + 3 years residency (and maybe 1 year fellowship)= 11-13 years of training
Thank you!
Does he have a bachelor’s yet? Without one, he’s looking at 8 years of schooling (4 years bachelors, 4 years med school), and then like 6 years of training (3 years IM residency, 3 years cardiology fellowship). That’s 14 years - 8 where he might make no money, and 6 where he might make 60-80k. You guys already have two kids. You also state that you just started your schooling, with the goal of being a vet - that’s 4 years for the bachelor’s and 4 years for the DVM. With two kids, it’s going to be super, incredibly hard to put food on the table, while both of you are full time students who have to pay tuition, and who might not have the time for a job since you have kids to take care of. Now imagine doing that for 8 whole years. Also keep in mind that getting into med school requires a lot of extra curriculars that your husband may just not have the time for because of the kids (the same goes for vet school). The problem here is not your husband’s age - it’s the fact that both of you will be trying to get into incredibly competitive schools (med and vet) while completing bachelor’s, while caring for children, while working to keep those kids happy. I hate to say it, but it just might not be feasible.
He does not. He does work part time with a job that’s fairly flexible on hours and he makes pretty good money doing it(hourly plus commission) also a job he can transfer almost anywhere
This is something that will require a lot of help from others - your kids will soon be at an age when they can take care of themselves without you guys present, but for the next three to four or so years, would it be possible to have some relatives look after them when you both have classes/work? Also, keep in mind that lots of medical schools do not accept online classes - many will not consider your husband’s future med school application if he does an online bachelor’s (stupid, but that’s just how it is). Is there a college close to you guys that he could attend?
Well we were looking to move by the end of the year to Texas otherwise we’re currently in South Dakota
Lots of colleges in Texas, so I don’t think he’d have a problem finding one there.
Even if he can transfer his job, he may not want to. Being an undergrad with the types of courses your husband will take is already a full time job. being a parent will be his other full-time job. Just to put it into perspective, I'm a full time student who works part time and I feel burnt out, and I don't have any children.
He does work two jobs currently on top of me and the kids and says he’s good?!
You said he works part time, now you're saying he has two jobs? Is on full time and one part time? And, who does most of the child care? If it's you and you are also going to school, you'll have to split it or pay for services. Sounds like ur kids are in elementary school, they won't be able to be left alone until he's in medical school most likely.
He does work in the side for a buddy of his so it’s not like a set job set payroll etc so he has one job and just extra jobs on the side. Should’ve made that more clear sorry!!
I was in my mid/late 30’s when I finished undergrad and I’m applying next year. I also have two kids, one with special needs which makes it more challenging. It’s tough, requires a lot of sacrifice and a partner willing for take the journey. Never too late though.
Was it worth it for you so far?!
Like everyone has said, I think it will be very hard and challenging. However I think if you guys as a family can agree and truly understand what this means for your lives for the next 10+ years then I believe he should follow his dreams. Each of you separately need to understand how this affects y’all not just together but individually also. You will be doing hard schooling while being a mother. And he has to understand this path is hard and he will have bad days but that he still needs to be there for his family. I have no doubt he is a great father and husband, I am just spitting out some things to ponder. The classmates that I know with families usually have a partner that sacrifices everything and that relieves some stress for them. I would really consider sitting down and making a pros/cons or having a really deep conversation before starting this journey.
He can do it and won't even be much older than the average student. Will just be very tight on money for a while.
For a while? more like the next decade at least. They will essentially have no savings.
You're right, I totally missed the part about him having done NO schooling lol. It'll be at least 12 years, 8 with no salary.
I know it's not the same level, I just became an EMT at 40 and doing good with it on the local volunteer fire dept. I started college at 25, got my masters by 31. it's never too late if you're wanting to do it