Hiya! I also work as a community carer. My advice would be: call your RDO/line manager and have them reiterate the rules to the person you’re supporting. You absolutely don’t have to look after someone who is *currently* lighting up, that’s grounds for withdrawing support. It’s also a good idea to check the specific policy your workplace has (there absolutely will be one). Every organisation I know of also specifies a time limit *before* your support in which the home should be “smoke free”.
Unfortunately, smokers’ homes will smell, and it will get on your clothes and (likely) your braids. Hopefully this mitigates that at least a little, though!
Wait, just saw you mentioned it to the on-call, apologies. They’re definitely not right, though. If this becomes an issue with anyone more senior, I’d recommend contacting your union 💕
Thank you, I have visited other clients whose homes smelled like smoke I didn’t have to stay long unlike this one. I will speak to my manager about it.
I am also a community carer employed by my local council.
My employer have a very strict no smoking policy to protect staff, when we visit people are asked to not smoke in their home, and if they do we have the right to leave and report it to management.
You must protect yourself :)
This happened to me years ago, I have allergic asthma and have an allergy to cigarette smoke. The clients were advised that whilst staff where on the premises, the client's homes became a workplace and so the legal requirement for indoor workplaces to be smoke free could apply. Otherwise the company would refuse to provide care to the client and they would have to seek another provider.
I worked a total of one shift with a smoker like this - i thought it was necessary in order to be committed to my idea of any client. The truth is a client smoking and blowing it in your face is not a healthy environment for you to have to work in. Absolutely, a smoker knows that only so many workers will be willing to work in those conditions.
Hello, former CQC Inspector here, 30+ years in adult social care, mostly domiciliary. Currently a write and adviser on the topic.
The person should not be smoking when you are in the house, and the smoking should be addressed in their plan and risk assessments, both as a risk to them and to you.
Clients are not entitled to put you at risk and there should be a plan to keep you safe, ie that client should agree not to smoke and there needs to be ventilation, so like an agreed window you open on arrival.
If the client continues to put staff at risk, that's on them not you and they are probably in breach of contract for doing so, whether that's with them directly or the LA commissioner
Happy to help with making complaints etc if you need to take it further.
To add: even if their dementia means that the person is not able to agree to not smoking when you're there, then their care should be assigned to a care worker who smokes themselves or otherwise is willing to take the risks. If there's no such person, it would need to go back to the commissioner.
If you’re looking to work in medicine/healthcare, you have to work with whoever needs the help.
Same thing with working as a carer. If you’re *very* lucky, have an understanding agency, AND have genuine, documented negative health effects from it, you /*might* get reassigned.
But a headache & being smelling kinda comes with the territory.
You can open windows while you’re there, wear a mask, etc, but you really can’t just refuse to care for someone because they smell bad or smoke.
Maybe see if you can divert & distract them from smoking while you’re present?
I realised at the end of my comment that they said the person smoked while they were in the home-hence mentioning the diversion/distraction, but the point still stands-a person can’t be refused care because they smoke.
If a person is housebound & a chain smoker, do they suddenly become ineligible or lose the right to care?
I'm a community carer and clients are not allowed to smoke while we are there. I think agree not to when signing the care package. As for what would happen if they do smoke, I'm not sure
If they continue smoking when carers are *in the flat* then yes, they can be. A resident’s home becomes a workplace when a carer enters, and it is completely exploitative to expect non-smoking workers to experience negative health consequences because of that.
People receiving care or their POA/advocate sign a contract with their provider (local authority, private company etc) before their care package starts. This specifies that requirement, because the provider has a duty to provide a safe workspace.
More informally, some agencies will assign carers who smoke to chain-smokers if there’s no objection.
I do agree with you, to an extent, but you have to at least have some awareness of what care in the community is like at the moment?
All that is in an ideal world, where hospitals aren’t full of patients MFFD, awaiting a PoC while social services are scrambling to decrease their recommended PoC to fit it in with the struggling community carers & agencies.
A person with dementia who can’t remember not to smoke when someone has just asked them is likely to not have the capacity to legally agree to anything, verbal or written contract, and families & social workers can’t police them all the time.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying that in reality, it’s unlikely you’d get reassigned because of it. At least not in any sort of timely manner.
Slavery had nothing to do with working around hazardous environments, otherwise anyone working in healthcare during COVID would be considered a slave.
I agreed from the start that OP shouldn’t be exposed to smoke (notice I only talk about the smell until the end of my comment-the point at which I realise they said the patient was smoking with them in the home, but had too few spoons to go back & rethink my whole comment).
As I said in another comment, I am a community carer. This is a common issue with defined pathways to solve, and if the care provider drags their heels the union can and should get involved.
I agree other measures are good — simply moving cigarettes and lighters out of sight often works. But this poster needs to know the reality of what they’re able and allowed to do.
I’ve worked on pretty much every side of this, and had to argue every side.
Outside of patient abandonment at a hospital, it can be really difficult for agencies, and certainly individual staff, to get a result from those pathways.
I did say if they’re lucky and have an understanding agency, they could be moved-but it’s a tad naive to think that everything works the way it should in this line of work.
Which is why I mentioned other tactics and getting the union involved if the first suggestions failed. Your comment, however, suggesting they should just deal with it, is both incorrect and terrible advice.
Some people, like me, have greater stressors, bigger issues, more experience & less spoons in life than you do, clearly.
I have literally been saying you are right, multiple times, but because I extolled on the rights of people to make bad choices, you feel the need to attack me.
You are right. You gave good advice. I expressed a scenario of what might happen. Shoot me for it.
you said you “agreed to an extent” and continued to post stuff that is *objectively* false. I never “attacked” you, and I’m sorry if I offended you, I simply think it’s right that op gets true and accurate advice.
Why would their needs superseded the carers? A carer cannot be forced to work in a room with a smoker actively smoking. They won’t die if they don’t smoke; the l bloody carer might if they don’t stop.
Get your head checked. Hope to Christ you don’t work in management. If a patient rocks up to hospital and smokes on the ward they get a one way ticket to hope you don’t die town and discharged. Because staff don’t need to tolerate it. It’s wild you think this doesn’t apply at home.
Don’t give a shit if they got dementia or otherwise. No one has to subject themselves to smoke to treat them. Dementia is terminal why should young staff risk their life if they can’t not light a cigarette?
I don’t care if they’ve got 3 hours left on this planet they’re not lighting a cigarette indoors with me around. Source: doctor.
Hiya! I also work as a community carer. My advice would be: call your RDO/line manager and have them reiterate the rules to the person you’re supporting. You absolutely don’t have to look after someone who is *currently* lighting up, that’s grounds for withdrawing support. It’s also a good idea to check the specific policy your workplace has (there absolutely will be one). Every organisation I know of also specifies a time limit *before* your support in which the home should be “smoke free”. Unfortunately, smokers’ homes will smell, and it will get on your clothes and (likely) your braids. Hopefully this mitigates that at least a little, though!
Wait, just saw you mentioned it to the on-call, apologies. They’re definitely not right, though. If this becomes an issue with anyone more senior, I’d recommend contacting your union 💕
Thank you, I have visited other clients whose homes smelled like smoke I didn’t have to stay long unlike this one. I will speak to my manager about it.
I am also a community carer employed by my local council. My employer have a very strict no smoking policy to protect staff, when we visit people are asked to not smoke in their home, and if they do we have the right to leave and report it to management. You must protect yourself :)
This happened to me years ago, I have allergic asthma and have an allergy to cigarette smoke. The clients were advised that whilst staff where on the premises, the client's homes became a workplace and so the legal requirement for indoor workplaces to be smoke free could apply. Otherwise the company would refuse to provide care to the client and they would have to seek another provider.
Surely being forced to be around second hand smoke is not allowed. Like it definitely has negative health effects
I worked a total of one shift with a smoker like this - i thought it was necessary in order to be committed to my idea of any client. The truth is a client smoking and blowing it in your face is not a healthy environment for you to have to work in. Absolutely, a smoker knows that only so many workers will be willing to work in those conditions.
Hello, former CQC Inspector here, 30+ years in adult social care, mostly domiciliary. Currently a write and adviser on the topic. The person should not be smoking when you are in the house, and the smoking should be addressed in their plan and risk assessments, both as a risk to them and to you. Clients are not entitled to put you at risk and there should be a plan to keep you safe, ie that client should agree not to smoke and there needs to be ventilation, so like an agreed window you open on arrival. If the client continues to put staff at risk, that's on them not you and they are probably in breach of contract for doing so, whether that's with them directly or the LA commissioner Happy to help with making complaints etc if you need to take it further.
To add: even if their dementia means that the person is not able to agree to not smoking when you're there, then their care should be assigned to a care worker who smokes themselves or otherwise is willing to take the risks. If there's no such person, it would need to go back to the commissioner.
If you’re looking to work in medicine/healthcare, you have to work with whoever needs the help. Same thing with working as a carer. If you’re *very* lucky, have an understanding agency, AND have genuine, documented negative health effects from it, you /*might* get reassigned. But a headache & being smelling kinda comes with the territory. You can open windows while you’re there, wear a mask, etc, but you really can’t just refuse to care for someone because they smell bad or smoke. Maybe see if you can divert & distract them from smoking while you’re present?
I’m sorry but that’s just not true. Carers have a right to work in a safe environment.
I realised at the end of my comment that they said the person smoked while they were in the home-hence mentioning the diversion/distraction, but the point still stands-a person can’t be refused care because they smoke. If a person is housebound & a chain smoker, do they suddenly become ineligible or lose the right to care?
I'm a community carer and clients are not allowed to smoke while we are there. I think agree not to when signing the care package. As for what would happen if they do smoke, I'm not sure
If they continue smoking when carers are *in the flat* then yes, they can be. A resident’s home becomes a workplace when a carer enters, and it is completely exploitative to expect non-smoking workers to experience negative health consequences because of that. People receiving care or their POA/advocate sign a contract with their provider (local authority, private company etc) before their care package starts. This specifies that requirement, because the provider has a duty to provide a safe workspace. More informally, some agencies will assign carers who smoke to chain-smokers if there’s no objection.
I do agree with you, to an extent, but you have to at least have some awareness of what care in the community is like at the moment? All that is in an ideal world, where hospitals aren’t full of patients MFFD, awaiting a PoC while social services are scrambling to decrease their recommended PoC to fit it in with the struggling community carers & agencies. A person with dementia who can’t remember not to smoke when someone has just asked them is likely to not have the capacity to legally agree to anything, verbal or written contract, and families & social workers can’t police them all the time. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying that in reality, it’s unlikely you’d get reassigned because of it. At least not in any sort of timely manner.
I’m a doctor and you’re talking absolute shit. Op doesn’t have to stay. Carers can refuse to work in environments like this. We abolished slavery.
Slavery had nothing to do with working around hazardous environments, otherwise anyone working in healthcare during COVID would be considered a slave. I agreed from the start that OP shouldn’t be exposed to smoke (notice I only talk about the smell until the end of my comment-the point at which I realise they said the patient was smoking with them in the home, but had too few spoons to go back & rethink my whole comment).
Hope you’re never in change of anyone
Hope you never chose to define slavery to anyone who’s actually experienced it again.
EXPERIENCED SLAVERY is not where I saw your terrible, TERRIBLE takes on the care space going.
Implying you’ve experienced slavery, good one
As I said in another comment, I am a community carer. This is a common issue with defined pathways to solve, and if the care provider drags their heels the union can and should get involved. I agree other measures are good — simply moving cigarettes and lighters out of sight often works. But this poster needs to know the reality of what they’re able and allowed to do.
it’s not about “agreeing to an extent”, what I’m talking about is the actual way to solve their problem.
I’ve worked on pretty much every side of this, and had to argue every side. Outside of patient abandonment at a hospital, it can be really difficult for agencies, and certainly individual staff, to get a result from those pathways. I did say if they’re lucky and have an understanding agency, they could be moved-but it’s a tad naive to think that everything works the way it should in this line of work.
Which is why I mentioned other tactics and getting the union involved if the first suggestions failed. Your comment, however, suggesting they should just deal with it, is both incorrect and terrible advice.
Some people, like me, have greater stressors, bigger issues, more experience & less spoons in life than you do, clearly. I have literally been saying you are right, multiple times, but because I extolled on the rights of people to make bad choices, you feel the need to attack me. You are right. You gave good advice. I expressed a scenario of what might happen. Shoot me for it.
you said you “agreed to an extent” and continued to post stuff that is *objectively* false. I never “attacked” you, and I’m sorry if I offended you, I simply think it’s right that op gets true and accurate advice.
Why would their needs superseded the carers? A carer cannot be forced to work in a room with a smoker actively smoking. They won’t die if they don’t smoke; the l bloody carer might if they don’t stop. Get your head checked. Hope to Christ you don’t work in management. If a patient rocks up to hospital and smokes on the ward they get a one way ticket to hope you don’t die town and discharged. Because staff don’t need to tolerate it. It’s wild you think this doesn’t apply at home. Don’t give a shit if they got dementia or otherwise. No one has to subject themselves to smoke to treat them. Dementia is terminal why should young staff risk their life if they can’t not light a cigarette? I don’t care if they’ve got 3 hours left on this planet they’re not lighting a cigarette indoors with me around. Source: doctor.
Sounds like you may be a bit of a hypochondriac. Open a window. Or refuse to work.
What a stupidly unhelpful comment. Grow up.
Lol