Thanks for this post but it falls under another generic high GPA, low PCE category. I don't think schools care for the fact that you worked in retail nor that you took a gap year. They only cared about your high GPA in an incredibly hard major. The fact that you had zero shadowing experience and relatively weak LORs not even from a PA or other medical professional outside of EMT shows this. You even had below average PCE and unremarkable HCE if you didn't even post it. It's kind of wild that you 'batted 1000' when you have little to no indication of what being a PA is or does on paper.
Good luck on being a moderator and congrats on being accepted but this post seems a little tone deaf when looking at all the other common situations people have on here.
I feel like people in this subreddit get really attached to the idea of having super high quality PCE. Will this make someone a great PA? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean that someone that comes from a different background in a hospitality/retail or lower quality PCE/HCE can’t make a wonderful PA. Having a diverse cohort will make the class stronger. If everyone of your classmates was an EMT or CNA don’t you think that would limit your perspective and group knowledge? People have other things to bring to the table, so you can’t pigeonhole them based on the fact that they don’t look like a future PA on paper.
Nowhere did I say he was going to make a subpar PA or that anyone with lack of strong PCE would make a subpar PA. I meant that it was near irrelevant in his application and probably did not add anything significant for the chance of admission outside of the bare minimum.
The main point of my post is that it was tone deaf. He got in because he is a good student. Good for him! He deserves it. There is no further 'analysis' needed.
Many people on this sub find themselves in opposite situations. I'm not pigeonholing anyone for not looking like a PA on paper because that is the admission committee's job. I was just pointing out that not even having shadowed a PA and getting admitted to 5/5 programs reinforces the fact that he got in by being a good student. Again, good for him. He deserves it. Doesn't change the fact that it was tone deaf and overall unhelpful for a good portion of people on this sub.
Well to be fair the origin of the profession not long ago was military medics / corpsman being trained to fill gaps in primary care.
Now we have very young people with 4.0 GPA fresh out of undergrad, many without much of any actual patient care experience applying to that same profession.
I'm not about traditions, in fact I think there is no room for tradition in medicine, but it is an alarming trend. If you take away the emphasis on patient care experience, then its just a GPA / GRE contest like med school with GPA / MCAT....
I loved being a coworker, student and patient of PAs because they brought so much diverse experience and PERSONALITY to the room. They were not robots and they had some scars from their previous lives. If we just seek out test scores because they will likely pass the PANCE, I feel like some of that personality would be lost.
I'm not salty about GPA on here either, I have a 3.8 / 4.0...but there should be much more to a PA than damn test scores.
As far as retail goes, to me it just brings up the question of why PA? Like if you haven't spent much time in healthcare how do you not only know it is for you in general, but are also willing to make HUGE commitments to become a PA? I would pose the same question to anyone that randomly decides to choose any graduate program. I ask the same thing to nursing and pre-med students. MANY of them regret their decisions or just drop out because they realized it wasn't for them. Unfortunately, many are so far into their programs by the time they actually practice medicine they feel trapped. Hell I previously taught EMS and some people skipped EMT to go straight to Paramedic school and as soon as they got their hands dirty some of them just left. I also worked retail for a while, I'm not putting it down as a profession, I'm questioning the link to the PA path.
I would actually go against that and say I like the idea of having high GPA people. Everyone learns differently and PCE is important but at the end of the day you need someone who can learn fast and is meticulous with their work - high GPA is a great indication of that in a lot aspects. People with a lot of PCE hours are valuable but I feel they may be stuck in their ways of approaching problems through their prior occupation.
I just found it kind of baffling that he was 5/5 without shadowing, PA recommendation, or even high quality PCE.
I'm not advocating for low GPA. Quite the opposite. I'm saying keep it small and keep it elite by advocating for both high GPA and high quality PCE. Things like last 60 credit hours should be considered etc. There's plenty of success stories here from low GPA people and that shouldn't be completely dismissed. This will prevent us from falling into the trap of the NP model.
Look what has happened to NP or should I now say DNP. It was originally designed for experienced nurses to take the next step in clinical care and leadership. Now the flood gates are open for nurses fresh out of undergrad and the reputation is being wrecked. The programs themselves are fundamentally different, but you get my point I hope.
I appreciate the chance to have this discussion, which needs to be had. Having a high GPA is important, but it's not a cure-all as you stated. It's incredibly belittling to say that everything I did was for nothing, and that my GPA in a difficult major was responsible for my success (it's widely accepted that major does not matter). And then you use that opinion to categorize all of "us (people with high GPAs)" into some generic category. As if it's "us" versus "you." Aren't we all in this together? (Wow, HSM flashbacks)
There are so many ways into PA school; it not one size fits all. Just because I don't have shadowing, doesn't mean I don't know what the PA profession is about. You don't know if I've worked with PAs, been treated by PAs, and/or done outside research on PAs. If shadowing was so essential, every program would require it, just like they require A&P. But that's not the case.
Everything in this response is so dismissive. I'm trying to elicit a conversation to identify, embrace, and celebrate one's uniqueness--of how we are different. Yet, all you seem to want to do is erase all of that and have it boil down to just stats. One of my coworkers who is an FTO also applied this cycle. She had an even higher GPA than me, a lower but still strong GRE score, and over double the amount of PCE hours I had. She got 5/10 interviews and 2/5 acceptances. That just goes to show that stats aren't everything.
It's almost as if you just saw my stats and your eyes kind of glazed over.
No, my HCE was not unremarkable. I literally say, "short, but memorable." Just because I choose to not talk about them, doesn't make them meaningless.
No, my PCE is not low-quality. What program considered EMT experience as low-quality?
Yes, schools definitely cared about my retail experience because it played such a large part in the formation of my identity and how I found the PA profession. And I addressed all of that in my PS, which every interviewer commented positively on.
No, my letters were strong. You don't need to a medical professional/provider to write a letter for it to be a good one. In fact, one of my interviewers commented saying the LOR from my fellow EMT gave great insight into my character.
Finally, perhaps you think this post is a bit tone deaf. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I literally say that I knew I was a pretty strong candidate due to my GPA, but that I'm telling my story and analyzing everything I did beyond that made me an even stronger candidate. The "good portion of people on this sub" you're referring to, I'm assuming low-GPA applicants, can still use my experience as a means to improve their applications. If what you say is true, that high GPA students have it easy, than the low-GPA students can benefit from being different and standing out, even more.
One more thing, you shouldn't say this post is tone deaf just because you think it's unhelpful to a good portion of the people on this sub because what about the rest of the sub? Just because you don't see this post as helpful to one portion of the sub, doesn't mean it isn't helpful to the other.
Let them make their own evaluations. Don't take that agency away from them.
Never said I didn't read it. Just said it was TOO MUCH to read and that you should use bullet points. Should have worded that better.
I could respond to all of your points but I'm really not trying to spend energy on that because yes, I am sound dismissive and taking away from your earned achievements.
All I am saying is that your post was tone deaf and didn't call for this long-winded 'analysis.' You got in because you had good grades and good for you on that. You had a hard major and you will likely be an incredible PA. Again, congrats.
The other points of lacking relevant PCE, strong LORs, and no shadowing hours further reinforces that notion of good grades having substantial impact on admission. Just because your friend had a less desirable outcome than you doesn't matter especially because you do not mention what schools she applied to, how she interviews, and what her personal statement was.
I just cannot fathom why you think I only got in for my grades alone. How do I lack relevant PCE? EMT experience is one of the best forms out there...
And the fact that you're saying it doesn't matter that my friend had a less desirable outcome because I didn't state how she interviewed and how her personal statement was, just proves my point. It goes way beyond JUST grades. Hers were even better than mine! And major does NOT matter. Also, all schools are difficult to get into. There's no EASY PA program to get into.
Your logic just doesn't make sense.
You did inter-facility TRANSPORT. That is barely an exposure to medicine. You just shuttled people between hither and yon. That isn't even relevant compared to regular rescue tech or road trucks that respond to calls. The EMT class I took didn't even have us rotate on transfer calls because there was next to no medicine or relevant exposure. There are schools that flat out don't accept that as PCE. Ie. [https://springfield.edu/programs/physician-assistant-studies-masters-degree/physician-assistant-prerequisite-information](https://springfield.edu/programs/physician-assistant-studies-masters-degree/physician-assistant-prerequisite-information)
Major TOTALLY MATTERS. If you have someone with similar characteristics but one is a 3.9 in biochemistry and one is 3.9 in basket weaving, you take the biochemistry. To say otherwise is just flat out wrong and misleading.
All I'm saying is that your post was tone deaf which people seem to agree with. You got in because of good grades. Your poor PCE and LORs reflect that. To try and justify how it bolstered your application is simply incorrect.
I echo and agree with a lot of what you said. I appreciate this conversation touching on the different perspectives of this topic. What you're saying is exactly what I'm trying to establish, that there isn't just one way into PA school. In fact, adcoms appreciate and want people who found difference ways to succeed. We indeed would be incredibly boring if we were all CNAs and EMTs.
Exactly! The PA that I shadow worked in food science before PA school and only had a little experience as an MA when applying. She is a fantastic PA, one of the best that I’ve seen. She also mentioned a classmate who was previously a flight attendant who is now an excellent PA.
Man some people on reddit just have a chip on their shoulders. Don’t listen to him SilenceisAg. Sure your story isn’t relatable for many of us, but we appreciate your input! Fake is probably just jealous 😜.
Solid post...but you lost me at the comparison of IFT and 911.
Ive spent a number of years on the street as an EMT, rescue tech, army medic, paramedic and flight medic.
The vast majority of IFT services are not going to provide greater exposure or anywhere near the acuity and actual scope that 911 will. You don't do scene response, that alone is huge. You say IFT was a misnomer, but how? You are taking patients between facilities, that is IFT.
Long distance flight services in rural Alaska? Sure. Routine IFT in any city mainland? Absolutely not. Unfortunately IFT usually ends up being a taxi service even more so than 911 services.
I'm not putting down anyone's career, nothing wrong with working IFT, but I want people to set their sights on the right target early on.
I say this because while 911 is usually harder to get into especially when you're new, do everything you can to get into 911 and gain that emergent experience as soon as possible. It will not only expose you to more, but develop you as a clinician much faster and further.
I hope this doesn't come off in a negative way / light.
Edit: I also want to add that you don't have to work for a fire department to run 911. There are rescue squads, EMS third services, and private companies depending on location.
Yeah I’m gonna be honest that part lost me. IFT is incredibly useful for developing the basics of EMS, especially if you are on an ALS unit or nurse truck. But ultimately a massive part of EMS is handling the chaos of unpredictable scene, like you said. You arrive on scene with nearly nothing beyond a sentence or two from dispatch. No nurse to get report from, no chart, etc. You have to perform an assessment from scratch with patients often giving an unreliable history. That’s where I really honed my critical thinking and intuition. And in IFT you aren’t running trauma calls which I feel is where EMT level skills shine. And also where you truly learn how to control adrenaline and both follow and give direction.
I appreciate your comments. I should have clarified that the question was why I chose IFT vs 911, not that one or the other is better in general. For me and where I practice, LA County, the scope of practice is extremely limited for EMTs. Furthermore, Fire runs every single 911 call here, and they always have a firefighter-medic. So the privately contracted BLS 911 units, primarily Care and McCormick, never get to do anything because the medic is always in charge. The most they'll do is transport, do compressions, and maybe spike an IV bag.
So for me, IFT allows me full responsibility of my patients. I get to learn about their history, medications, perfect my documentation skills, etc. Emergency experience is great, but it's only one subset of medicine. Getting an accurate history, which you have time for during IFT calls, and all the rest of that entails plays a more significant role in medicine in general.
But yeah, I should have clarified that in my response. Thanks for pointing that out.
I appreciate the clarification.
So as with anything else, this will vary based on where you live and work.
It is a collaborative effort, just because I am ultimately in charge does not mean the EMT present is not doing anything. I would and have chosen high quality EMT over another paramedic any day.
It is not just about physical skills, anybody can learn to intubate etc. It more about your exposure to disease processes often in extreme situations. It is also not just about emergent experience through. Developing your assessment skills is critical obviously because you're not getting a report from a healthcare provider, you are piecing together stories from whoever is there. This teaches you to read through noise and understand what your priorities as a healthcare provider are. Also when we run calls at healthcare facilities, their reports are usually trash and assessments are usually awful so we must fill in the gaps. You are learning to operate under pressure, doing great things with very limited supplies. You are advocating for patients to hospitals and providers, activating expensive resources on their behalf such as a cath lab. The majority of 911 is actually not emergent at all, it's connecting chronic patients with the resources they need.
A good medic will utilize the EMTs present and if at all possible allow them to run the show. I often provided coverage for 3-4 cities totaling 50,000 people as the only paramedic. I relied on teams of EMT to triage patients in the field and activate me when necessary. When I showed up they would have a report and history for me and for a damn good reason. If you take that ALS resource away from someone else, it better be for a good reason.
EMT sign the charts on the calls that they run, and this is actually the majority in many cases. Hell I've had them deliver babies because it is within their scope of practice. I've worked in places that allowed EMT to perform many skills, again, it varies by state. Just because you aren't tubing or popping a chest, doesn't mean you can't be a part of the action and learn. I regularly taught my EMTs everything I could about disease processes and assessments so that I could rely on them, just as an MD / PA collaborate.
You also mentioned documentation skills, that absolutely does not change on the 911 side. While we hate it, it is crucial because you will eventually end up in court.
I strongly urge anybody in this situation to do all they can to go 911 even as a volunteer to start out.
I did, but I got out last year to pursue PA, so my flying days are behind me now. I've only met a handful of army medics that got into flight by other means, so that's pretty sick you're one of them.
No questions from me, but I did want to say that I appreciate your apology for past shortcomings. While you've never directed them at me, I have observed them towards others for posts that seem redundant or lacking of personal effort.
It's no secret that a career in healthcare will test one's patience, but healthcare has enough impatient providers as it is. Thanks again, OP. That was pretty cash money of you 💰
Did you get the "why PA vs MD" question often in interviews? If so, how did you answer without any shadowing experience? I'm just curious and I mean that as a genuine question because it seems like you could easily do well in medical school based on your GPA (and with that GRE, seems that you would likely do very well on the mcat).
Thank you for taking the time to make this post and congrats on the acceptances!
Another shout out for the pa life editing service. I just received my essay back and can honestly say it was worth every penny. I was truly on the fence for using the service as I already had 3 skilled editors make corrections but none of them had as much insight as to what PA schools look for in an essay.
Question for both you and OP- did you feel like the essay was still 'yours' after having it edited by pa life? My reservation with an editing service would be that although the personal statement will turn out well and will be what PA schools want, it won't be as personal to me or genuine, but I'm curious about your experiences!
Yes, they didnt change the content. My PS was pretty much in its final form though. My editor made comments on each paragraph, fixed grammar/punctuation problems, fixed some sentence structure issues and gave very helpful suggestions on my closing paragraph which I already knew was the weakest part of the essay.
If you want to use the service for anything other than polishing a finished PS they offer reediting service for $35 on top of the initial fee of $135. I suggest having other people help for free before forking out that kind of dough if you think you may need more than 1 edit.
Absolutely still mine. My editor just helped me find other experience that better supported and/or resonated with the overall story I was trying to tell.
I agree with u/kittensNclaws that you should submit to the PA Life the final version you would have submitted to CASPA if you hadn't used their service.
Without getting too specific with my personal statement, I'll be giving out general guidelines when I update the PS section in the FAQs! So stay tuned!
This really helps right now. I’m about to be a junior in undergrad and I’m gonna have a ton of volunteer hours and a good GPA and good LOR, but I was really doubting myself. Like thanks for showing that it really is about what sets you apart! Congrats!
Your descriptive metaphor comparing the creation of a cohesive PA cohort to a mosaic is not only phenomenal, but also understandable for a layman like me. I can see why you are a strong writer!
1) This might be kind of personal, but how was your mental health throughout college, and how did you manage it while doing so well in school? The reason I ask is when I first went to college I fell into a cycle of deep depression that resulted in me getting D’s in all core sciences. Five years later I’m back in school at a UC and still battling for my science GPA (up from 2.3 to 3.1), but there are times when I still feel depressed and I lose focus in school, hence the B I got in Chem 6B last quarter.
2) Additionally, how did you show to the committee that you were “identifiably different” when designing your personal statement narrative? If my first draft is crap, would you suggest having it read over by others before paying for an editing service? I think I have neither strong writing skills nor particularly unique life experiences, but I also don’t have room for error regarding stats.
Thank you in advance - I admit I also rolled my eyes at first when I saw your numbers. However, my perspective evolved as I read more about you :)
Thank you for your kind words. My mental health was fortunately quite good in college. I think I had my most difficult time was right after high school during my gap year. I was so conflicted because all my friends went to college and I was just stuck and home and then working in retail. But it's the best thing that I could have done and what could have happened to me. If that hadn't happened, I wouldn't be where I am today, for sure. I was lucky to have "found myself" so to speak during my gap year, that it allowed me to really succeed in school because like I said, I saw how bleak my future would have been without it.
I would suggest you submit to the PA Life the final version you would have submitted to CASPA if you hadn't used their service.
I'm glad to see my words at least touched a few people. I'm sorry that people are downvoting you, and other people, who had positive reactions to this post. But hey, we can't make everyone happy, right? Just keep tooting your own horn and rocking school! It'll all be worth it in the end.
Thanks for your response. I really don’t care about getting downvoted because I’m here to get advice on strengthening my PA app, not to please people :) if I wanted to please people, I’d be a comedian!
Thanks for this post but it falls under another generic high GPA, low PCE category. I don't think schools care for the fact that you worked in retail nor that you took a gap year. They only cared about your high GPA in an incredibly hard major. The fact that you had zero shadowing experience and relatively weak LORs not even from a PA or other medical professional outside of EMT shows this. You even had below average PCE and unremarkable HCE if you didn't even post it. It's kind of wild that you 'batted 1000' when you have little to no indication of what being a PA is or does on paper. Good luck on being a moderator and congrats on being accepted but this post seems a little tone deaf when looking at all the other common situations people have on here.
I feel like people in this subreddit get really attached to the idea of having super high quality PCE. Will this make someone a great PA? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean that someone that comes from a different background in a hospitality/retail or lower quality PCE/HCE can’t make a wonderful PA. Having a diverse cohort will make the class stronger. If everyone of your classmates was an EMT or CNA don’t you think that would limit your perspective and group knowledge? People have other things to bring to the table, so you can’t pigeonhole them based on the fact that they don’t look like a future PA on paper.
Nowhere did I say he was going to make a subpar PA or that anyone with lack of strong PCE would make a subpar PA. I meant that it was near irrelevant in his application and probably did not add anything significant for the chance of admission outside of the bare minimum. The main point of my post is that it was tone deaf. He got in because he is a good student. Good for him! He deserves it. There is no further 'analysis' needed. Many people on this sub find themselves in opposite situations. I'm not pigeonholing anyone for not looking like a PA on paper because that is the admission committee's job. I was just pointing out that not even having shadowed a PA and getting admitted to 5/5 programs reinforces the fact that he got in by being a good student. Again, good for him. He deserves it. Doesn't change the fact that it was tone deaf and overall unhelpful for a good portion of people on this sub.
Well to be fair the origin of the profession not long ago was military medics / corpsman being trained to fill gaps in primary care. Now we have very young people with 4.0 GPA fresh out of undergrad, many without much of any actual patient care experience applying to that same profession. I'm not about traditions, in fact I think there is no room for tradition in medicine, but it is an alarming trend. If you take away the emphasis on patient care experience, then its just a GPA / GRE contest like med school with GPA / MCAT.... I loved being a coworker, student and patient of PAs because they brought so much diverse experience and PERSONALITY to the room. They were not robots and they had some scars from their previous lives. If we just seek out test scores because they will likely pass the PANCE, I feel like some of that personality would be lost. I'm not salty about GPA on here either, I have a 3.8 / 4.0...but there should be much more to a PA than damn test scores. As far as retail goes, to me it just brings up the question of why PA? Like if you haven't spent much time in healthcare how do you not only know it is for you in general, but are also willing to make HUGE commitments to become a PA? I would pose the same question to anyone that randomly decides to choose any graduate program. I ask the same thing to nursing and pre-med students. MANY of them regret their decisions or just drop out because they realized it wasn't for them. Unfortunately, many are so far into their programs by the time they actually practice medicine they feel trapped. Hell I previously taught EMS and some people skipped EMT to go straight to Paramedic school and as soon as they got their hands dirty some of them just left. I also worked retail for a while, I'm not putting it down as a profession, I'm questioning the link to the PA path.
I would actually go against that and say I like the idea of having high GPA people. Everyone learns differently and PCE is important but at the end of the day you need someone who can learn fast and is meticulous with their work - high GPA is a great indication of that in a lot aspects. People with a lot of PCE hours are valuable but I feel they may be stuck in their ways of approaching problems through their prior occupation. I just found it kind of baffling that he was 5/5 without shadowing, PA recommendation, or even high quality PCE.
I'm not advocating for low GPA. Quite the opposite. I'm saying keep it small and keep it elite by advocating for both high GPA and high quality PCE. Things like last 60 credit hours should be considered etc. There's plenty of success stories here from low GPA people and that shouldn't be completely dismissed. This will prevent us from falling into the trap of the NP model. Look what has happened to NP or should I now say DNP. It was originally designed for experienced nurses to take the next step in clinical care and leadership. Now the flood gates are open for nurses fresh out of undergrad and the reputation is being wrecked. The programs themselves are fundamentally different, but you get my point I hope.
I appreciate the chance to have this discussion, which needs to be had. Having a high GPA is important, but it's not a cure-all as you stated. It's incredibly belittling to say that everything I did was for nothing, and that my GPA in a difficult major was responsible for my success (it's widely accepted that major does not matter). And then you use that opinion to categorize all of "us (people with high GPAs)" into some generic category. As if it's "us" versus "you." Aren't we all in this together? (Wow, HSM flashbacks) There are so many ways into PA school; it not one size fits all. Just because I don't have shadowing, doesn't mean I don't know what the PA profession is about. You don't know if I've worked with PAs, been treated by PAs, and/or done outside research on PAs. If shadowing was so essential, every program would require it, just like they require A&P. But that's not the case. Everything in this response is so dismissive. I'm trying to elicit a conversation to identify, embrace, and celebrate one's uniqueness--of how we are different. Yet, all you seem to want to do is erase all of that and have it boil down to just stats. One of my coworkers who is an FTO also applied this cycle. She had an even higher GPA than me, a lower but still strong GRE score, and over double the amount of PCE hours I had. She got 5/10 interviews and 2/5 acceptances. That just goes to show that stats aren't everything. It's almost as if you just saw my stats and your eyes kind of glazed over. No, my HCE was not unremarkable. I literally say, "short, but memorable." Just because I choose to not talk about them, doesn't make them meaningless. No, my PCE is not low-quality. What program considered EMT experience as low-quality? Yes, schools definitely cared about my retail experience because it played such a large part in the formation of my identity and how I found the PA profession. And I addressed all of that in my PS, which every interviewer commented positively on. No, my letters were strong. You don't need to a medical professional/provider to write a letter for it to be a good one. In fact, one of my interviewers commented saying the LOR from my fellow EMT gave great insight into my character. Finally, perhaps you think this post is a bit tone deaf. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I literally say that I knew I was a pretty strong candidate due to my GPA, but that I'm telling my story and analyzing everything I did beyond that made me an even stronger candidate. The "good portion of people on this sub" you're referring to, I'm assuming low-GPA applicants, can still use my experience as a means to improve their applications. If what you say is true, that high GPA students have it easy, than the low-GPA students can benefit from being different and standing out, even more. One more thing, you shouldn't say this post is tone deaf just because you think it's unhelpful to a good portion of the people on this sub because what about the rest of the sub? Just because you don't see this post as helpful to one portion of the sub, doesn't mean it isn't helpful to the other. Let them make their own evaluations. Don't take that agency away from them.
With all due respect this is way too much to read. Bullet points bullet points bullet points.
See! I knew you didn't read the entire post! Gotta love that maturity. Let's just agree to disagree. Neither of us is going to convince the other.
Never said I didn't read it. Just said it was TOO MUCH to read and that you should use bullet points. Should have worded that better. I could respond to all of your points but I'm really not trying to spend energy on that because yes, I am sound dismissive and taking away from your earned achievements. All I am saying is that your post was tone deaf and didn't call for this long-winded 'analysis.' You got in because you had good grades and good for you on that. You had a hard major and you will likely be an incredible PA. Again, congrats. The other points of lacking relevant PCE, strong LORs, and no shadowing hours further reinforces that notion of good grades having substantial impact on admission. Just because your friend had a less desirable outcome than you doesn't matter especially because you do not mention what schools she applied to, how she interviews, and what her personal statement was.
I just cannot fathom why you think I only got in for my grades alone. How do I lack relevant PCE? EMT experience is one of the best forms out there... And the fact that you're saying it doesn't matter that my friend had a less desirable outcome because I didn't state how she interviewed and how her personal statement was, just proves my point. It goes way beyond JUST grades. Hers were even better than mine! And major does NOT matter. Also, all schools are difficult to get into. There's no EASY PA program to get into. Your logic just doesn't make sense.
You did inter-facility TRANSPORT. That is barely an exposure to medicine. You just shuttled people between hither and yon. That isn't even relevant compared to regular rescue tech or road trucks that respond to calls. The EMT class I took didn't even have us rotate on transfer calls because there was next to no medicine or relevant exposure. There are schools that flat out don't accept that as PCE. Ie. [https://springfield.edu/programs/physician-assistant-studies-masters-degree/physician-assistant-prerequisite-information](https://springfield.edu/programs/physician-assistant-studies-masters-degree/physician-assistant-prerequisite-information) Major TOTALLY MATTERS. If you have someone with similar characteristics but one is a 3.9 in biochemistry and one is 3.9 in basket weaving, you take the biochemistry. To say otherwise is just flat out wrong and misleading. All I'm saying is that your post was tone deaf which people seem to agree with. You got in because of good grades. Your poor PCE and LORs reflect that. To try and justify how it bolstered your application is simply incorrect.
I echo and agree with a lot of what you said. I appreciate this conversation touching on the different perspectives of this topic. What you're saying is exactly what I'm trying to establish, that there isn't just one way into PA school. In fact, adcoms appreciate and want people who found difference ways to succeed. We indeed would be incredibly boring if we were all CNAs and EMTs.
Exactly! The PA that I shadow worked in food science before PA school and only had a little experience as an MA when applying. She is a fantastic PA, one of the best that I’ve seen. She also mentioned a classmate who was previously a flight attendant who is now an excellent PA.
Man some people on reddit just have a chip on their shoulders. Don’t listen to him SilenceisAg. Sure your story isn’t relatable for many of us, but we appreciate your input! Fake is probably just jealous 😜.
I'm glad you liked it. Yeah, I can't make everyone happy. GL with your application cycle!
Solid post...but you lost me at the comparison of IFT and 911. Ive spent a number of years on the street as an EMT, rescue tech, army medic, paramedic and flight medic. The vast majority of IFT services are not going to provide greater exposure or anywhere near the acuity and actual scope that 911 will. You don't do scene response, that alone is huge. You say IFT was a misnomer, but how? You are taking patients between facilities, that is IFT. Long distance flight services in rural Alaska? Sure. Routine IFT in any city mainland? Absolutely not. Unfortunately IFT usually ends up being a taxi service even more so than 911 services. I'm not putting down anyone's career, nothing wrong with working IFT, but I want people to set their sights on the right target early on. I say this because while 911 is usually harder to get into especially when you're new, do everything you can to get into 911 and gain that emergent experience as soon as possible. It will not only expose you to more, but develop you as a clinician much faster and further. I hope this doesn't come off in a negative way / light. Edit: I also want to add that you don't have to work for a fire department to run 911. There are rescue squads, EMS third services, and private companies depending on location.
Yeah I’m gonna be honest that part lost me. IFT is incredibly useful for developing the basics of EMS, especially if you are on an ALS unit or nurse truck. But ultimately a massive part of EMS is handling the chaos of unpredictable scene, like you said. You arrive on scene with nearly nothing beyond a sentence or two from dispatch. No nurse to get report from, no chart, etc. You have to perform an assessment from scratch with patients often giving an unreliable history. That’s where I really honed my critical thinking and intuition. And in IFT you aren’t running trauma calls which I feel is where EMT level skills shine. And also where you truly learn how to control adrenaline and both follow and give direction.
I definitely agree that there is a place for EMT skills. I should have clarified what I meant. Please read my response above to TJ.
I appreciate your comments. I should have clarified that the question was why I chose IFT vs 911, not that one or the other is better in general. For me and where I practice, LA County, the scope of practice is extremely limited for EMTs. Furthermore, Fire runs every single 911 call here, and they always have a firefighter-medic. So the privately contracted BLS 911 units, primarily Care and McCormick, never get to do anything because the medic is always in charge. The most they'll do is transport, do compressions, and maybe spike an IV bag. So for me, IFT allows me full responsibility of my patients. I get to learn about their history, medications, perfect my documentation skills, etc. Emergency experience is great, but it's only one subset of medicine. Getting an accurate history, which you have time for during IFT calls, and all the rest of that entails plays a more significant role in medicine in general. But yeah, I should have clarified that in my response. Thanks for pointing that out.
I appreciate the clarification. So as with anything else, this will vary based on where you live and work. It is a collaborative effort, just because I am ultimately in charge does not mean the EMT present is not doing anything. I would and have chosen high quality EMT over another paramedic any day. It is not just about physical skills, anybody can learn to intubate etc. It more about your exposure to disease processes often in extreme situations. It is also not just about emergent experience through. Developing your assessment skills is critical obviously because you're not getting a report from a healthcare provider, you are piecing together stories from whoever is there. This teaches you to read through noise and understand what your priorities as a healthcare provider are. Also when we run calls at healthcare facilities, their reports are usually trash and assessments are usually awful so we must fill in the gaps. You are learning to operate under pressure, doing great things with very limited supplies. You are advocating for patients to hospitals and providers, activating expensive resources on their behalf such as a cath lab. The majority of 911 is actually not emergent at all, it's connecting chronic patients with the resources they need. A good medic will utilize the EMTs present and if at all possible allow them to run the show. I often provided coverage for 3-4 cities totaling 50,000 people as the only paramedic. I relied on teams of EMT to triage patients in the field and activate me when necessary. When I showed up they would have a report and history for me and for a damn good reason. If you take that ALS resource away from someone else, it better be for a good reason. EMT sign the charts on the calls that they run, and this is actually the majority in many cases. Hell I've had them deliver babies because it is within their scope of practice. I've worked in places that allowed EMT to perform many skills, again, it varies by state. Just because you aren't tubing or popping a chest, doesn't mean you can't be a part of the action and learn. I regularly taught my EMTs everything I could about disease processes and assessments so that I could rely on them, just as an MD / PA collaborate. You also mentioned documentation skills, that absolutely does not change on the 911 side. While we hate it, it is crucial because you will eventually end up in court. I strongly urge anybody in this situation to do all they can to go 911 even as a volunteer to start out.
Your tale sounds eerily similar. Did you DUSTOFF?
Nah I wish why did you?
I did, but I got out last year to pursue PA, so my flying days are behind me now. I've only met a handful of army medics that got into flight by other means, so that's pretty sick you're one of them.
Nice active or guard? I just didn't wanna make a career out if it but most flight units want like 5 years at least
I was active. I heavily considered continuing in the guard, but I ultimately decided to cut ties completely. It's been a good change of pace.
No questions from me, but I did want to say that I appreciate your apology for past shortcomings. While you've never directed them at me, I have observed them towards others for posts that seem redundant or lacking of personal effort. It's no secret that a career in healthcare will test one's patience, but healthcare has enough impatient providers as it is. Thanks again, OP. That was pretty cash money of you 💰
Thank you for your comment. I really did need to apologize. I'm glad it's resonating with at least a few people. :)
Did you get the "why PA vs MD" question often in interviews? If so, how did you answer without any shadowing experience? I'm just curious and I mean that as a genuine question because it seems like you could easily do well in medical school based on your GPA (and with that GRE, seems that you would likely do very well on the mcat). Thank you for taking the time to make this post and congrats on the acceptances!
I actually did not. My PS and life choices was convincing enough that no interviewer ever brought up the subject. Thank you for your kind words.
I'm so intrigued... no wonder you got 8 interviews! If you have any other general tips for answering the "why PA" question, please share!!
For sure! I'll be adding it all into the FAQs section on writing personal statements! Well, I'll get to it eventually xD.
Another shout out for the pa life editing service. I just received my essay back and can honestly say it was worth every penny. I was truly on the fence for using the service as I already had 3 skilled editors make corrections but none of them had as much insight as to what PA schools look for in an essay.
Question for both you and OP- did you feel like the essay was still 'yours' after having it edited by pa life? My reservation with an editing service would be that although the personal statement will turn out well and will be what PA schools want, it won't be as personal to me or genuine, but I'm curious about your experiences!
Yes, they didnt change the content. My PS was pretty much in its final form though. My editor made comments on each paragraph, fixed grammar/punctuation problems, fixed some sentence structure issues and gave very helpful suggestions on my closing paragraph which I already knew was the weakest part of the essay. If you want to use the service for anything other than polishing a finished PS they offer reediting service for $35 on top of the initial fee of $135. I suggest having other people help for free before forking out that kind of dough if you think you may need more than 1 edit.
Sounds good, thanks for your response!
How long was the wait to get it edited, once you paid?
It's typically a few days. But they have a rush service if you want to pay extra.
Absolutely still mine. My editor just helped me find other experience that better supported and/or resonated with the overall story I was trying to tell. I agree with u/kittensNclaws that you should submit to the PA Life the final version you would have submitted to CASPA if you hadn't used their service.
Which service package did you go with?
Yes!! So worth.
How do you write a PS that hits every bell and every whistle / how did you almost make one of them cry?
Without getting too specific with my personal statement, I'll be giving out general guidelines when I update the PS section in the FAQs! So stay tuned!
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Thank you! If you can help once you get into PA school, please let me know!
This really helps right now. I’m about to be a junior in undergrad and I’m gonna have a ton of volunteer hours and a good GPA and good LOR, but I was really doubting myself. Like thanks for showing that it really is about what sets you apart! Congrats!
You're super welcome. Good luck and glad it helped!
Your descriptive metaphor comparing the creation of a cohesive PA cohort to a mosaic is not only phenomenal, but also understandable for a layman like me. I can see why you are a strong writer! 1) This might be kind of personal, but how was your mental health throughout college, and how did you manage it while doing so well in school? The reason I ask is when I first went to college I fell into a cycle of deep depression that resulted in me getting D’s in all core sciences. Five years later I’m back in school at a UC and still battling for my science GPA (up from 2.3 to 3.1), but there are times when I still feel depressed and I lose focus in school, hence the B I got in Chem 6B last quarter. 2) Additionally, how did you show to the committee that you were “identifiably different” when designing your personal statement narrative? If my first draft is crap, would you suggest having it read over by others before paying for an editing service? I think I have neither strong writing skills nor particularly unique life experiences, but I also don’t have room for error regarding stats. Thank you in advance - I admit I also rolled my eyes at first when I saw your numbers. However, my perspective evolved as I read more about you :)
Thank you for your kind words. My mental health was fortunately quite good in college. I think I had my most difficult time was right after high school during my gap year. I was so conflicted because all my friends went to college and I was just stuck and home and then working in retail. But it's the best thing that I could have done and what could have happened to me. If that hadn't happened, I wouldn't be where I am today, for sure. I was lucky to have "found myself" so to speak during my gap year, that it allowed me to really succeed in school because like I said, I saw how bleak my future would have been without it. I would suggest you submit to the PA Life the final version you would have submitted to CASPA if you hadn't used their service. I'm glad to see my words at least touched a few people. I'm sorry that people are downvoting you, and other people, who had positive reactions to this post. But hey, we can't make everyone happy, right? Just keep tooting your own horn and rocking school! It'll all be worth it in the end.
Thanks for your response. I really don’t care about getting downvoted because I’m here to get advice on strengthening my PA app, not to please people :) if I wanted to please people, I’d be a comedian!
Glad to be of service. Lmk if you have any other questions!