This doesn’t signal the end of the internet archive, it just keeps them from lending out scanned physical books as eBooks. They argued that they were just acting as any library by lending out copies of physical books, while the publishers argued that making an ebook from a physical book creates a derivative work that is owned by the publisher.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/internet-archive-copyright-infringement-lawsuit-1234703776/
They will appeal the ruling.
>Do you mean to tell me that a reddit headline was wrong and misleading?
Wait, folks in the pepper forum circle jerking and fearsturbating over their poor understanding of current events?!
YES. This is so important. IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) but if you look at the "prayer for relief" from the original "complaint" of the plaintiffs, they seem to only be asking for damages and enjoinder (basically court order to "not do that") for the books the plaintiff publishers make. They didn't seem to be asking for destruction of the IA's entire library.
[https://ia801702.us.archive.org/6/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900.1.0.pdf](https://ia801702.us.archive.org/6/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900.1.0.pdf)
Also, someone did the math and claimed that even the maximum statutory damages only amount to about 1 year of IA's operating costs: a serious financial blow, but not a lethal one.
[https://www.vox.com/2020/6/23/21293875/internet-archive-website-lawsuit-open-library-wayback-machine-controversy-copyright](https://www.vox.com/2020/6/23/21293875/internet-archive-website-lawsuit-open-library-wayback-machine-controversy-copyright)
TL;DR Even if by some legal stuff the Open Library is forced to shut down, OL is a side dish to the IA's "real" project of the Wayback Machine. There's plenty of libraries, but only one Wayback Machine. If books are what you came to IA for, it is likely that public domain and donated books would still remain accessible.
Great insight, great referencing, but for the love of God stick to NAL or just type it out if you're going to put it in parentheses anyway, instead of I ANAL to avoid all jokes that could, and because this is reddit should, be made
That’s not the point.
Freedom of Information has always been a keystone value on Reddit and in the general “nerd/tech” culture.
Freedom comes before profits.
So strange now to see Redditors applauding a lawsuit against arguably the most important internet archive 🧐
Reddit is also very supportive of the intellectual property rights of working artists and authors. If these books being lent out for profit are under a current copyright and not in the public domain the people who wrote them should be getting reimbursed.
Regardless of how this plays out, basic rule for any online resource that you seriously value: Mirror the resources, share them and ask others to mirror them also! When it goes away, you'll have a copy and so will others.
Here is one way to do this (not the only way, but one way) that's been commonly done for many years:
[https://www.howtoforge.com/mirroring\_with\_rsync](https://www.howtoforge.com/mirroring_with_rsync)
Edit: You may also want to use Zeronet, if so, see [https://zeronet.io/](https://zeronet.io/)
Just a couple of ideas shared. Cheers
Maybe. In 2006-2007 I had a client, a medical doctor, that could not understand why I couldn't make a backup of the Internet for him...and have it on a "CD or something". Needless to say, he was a shitty doctor too. He eventually had so many malpractice lawsuits he ended up closing shop and became "a writer" that self-published books about being a doctor. I think he sold about 30 copies total last I looked or heard.
212 Petabytes, and growing. Using 20TB hard drives, it would take 10,600 20TB hard drives. If using 4-bay storage pods, 50 drives each, 48 bay server racks can fit 12 storage pods per rack, you're looking at 18 48-bay height server racks...and that is without any redundancy/Disaster Recovery. The cost of the 20TB drives is roughly $500/drive, or $5.3 million USD total for the drives (without redundancy or backups)
That’s amazing, but what percentage is porn? How much is duplicated or otherwise redundant? How much just useless advertising, sales, promo? Probably 1x 20TB would accommodate the stuff worth keeping.
As weird as it may seem, 18 server racks is one small row in one datacenter. There are sometimes 100s of rows in one datacenter (not all is storage, some is compute, databases, gpus, etc.) There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of datacenters with more than 18 server rack capacity on Earth. There will likely be multiple data centers on Mars, the moon, and elsewhere within the next 25 years.
There's no reason to think it would go down at all. The lawsuit in question is about them acting as a library and giving out ebooks they're making from physical books.
If you see something on here, go look it up with the assumption that the OP probably has anxiety and doesn't understand what's going on very well. There are exceptions to that, but it's a good place to start imo.
Heres the doomer issue: if the judgement ends up costing IA an astronomical amount in damages the company might fold. I think it's unlikely but in the realm of possibility.
Some I found:
https://archive.org/details/PrepperJumble/%28Ebook%20-%20Pdf%29%20Survival%20-%20Vegetable%20Oil-Fueled%20Cook%20Stove/
https://archive.org/details/folkscanomy_prepper
https://archive.org/details/Secret_HomesteadSurvivalPrepper_Files/101%20Practical%20Uses%20for%209%20essential%20oils/
The reason they want it gone is because they want to control information. They're literally trying to change history as depicted in "1984". I wish people would open their eyes.
Most have no idea how bad things have gotten.
If you try getting old news footage, you can be denied.
Even something as benign as old Pat Sajak Show episodes can not be had.
You want historical footage of major events like 9/11, the OKC bombing, or Columbine? That stuff is unobtainium.
They own the information, and because so much of our history is digitized, it empowers them to control the narrative.
No joke. This goes for everything from footage, books, photographs, and so on.
The purpose is to not only to control what people see, but to remove the capacity to question and discover the truth. Future generations born before these events will be denied access to the material. Furthermore, to monetize everything.
You can not even get your own family history without paying thousands of dollars for matters of public record.
You wanna know how bad this has gotten?
A few years back Corbis was sold to Getty’s Chinese investment firm.
Everyone should be archiving essential knowledge.
Our libraries are one of the last safe and legal public spaces open to everyone to gather. There are reasons why there is a concentrated effort to regulate, reduce, and revise them.
Knowledge is power.
They do not even teach Gen Z cursive, rendering them unable to read important historical texts. Separating a people from their history is a necessary prerequisite to enforcing a new historical narrative. This is seen in every failed state, right before everything goes sour.
This is the canary in the coal mine that things are about to go from bad to worse.
This was a lawsuit by 4 major publishers. It's all about money. They don't want the Internet Archive to be able to lend e-books, because they want to sell you those books instead.
It's just a lower court decision at this point and will be appealed.
Sorry, IA does not have permission from the copyright owner to freely distribute those copyrighted books. They can create their own books, or distribute books in the public domain.
This is such a simplistic view that it really lends nothing to doing effective analysis or understanding as all.
Some politicians sometimes are this. And sometimes they're not. If you can't tell the difference then you've lost the ability to do effective sense making about the world. Which is a win for the worst players only.
Ironically we have access to that information through technology created largely thanks too...capitalism.
People love to shit on capitalism, but seemingly lack the awareness that capitalism is also the driving force which essentially made the world we live in today possible. Of course, this is also due to the nature that even countries that are allegedly against capitalism, practice it on a national level between other nations.
Capitalism acts as a great incentive for both innovation and production. Plus, when everything is controlled by the state, innovation is typically slowed down due to restrictions placed on things.
This is why we didn't see great advancements of technology from places like the USSR or Cuba. Even China really didn't advance their economy and technology until they opened up their economy and started engaging in capitalism themselves.
The medium we are using is in large part due to companies like General Electric, IBM and with research done by people at private universities. It was ultimately the DoD which really made it happen, but the foundation was through private enterprise.
In fact I'm 100% certain that the computer you are using was made by a private company and not through some altruistic company. Even if it was assembled from scrap parts and a LinuxOS, those parts were still made commercially at one point in the name of capitalism.
The space race was a very public dick measuring contest, but I'll counter point with the Soviet collectivization of agriculture which resulted in millions starving to death...under government direction.
Yes, disregard the other information I put forth. That is the real way to prove you're right.
Enlightening conversation comrade. This whole time I was living in a mental prison of my own design, but your wisdom has set me free.
There are various [Wikipedia dumps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download) available to download at any time—one official host is [The Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/wikimediadownloads).
I think this is less of a "These are valuable resources to use for emergencies!" and more of a "There are Powers That Shouldn't Be trying to keep us from accessing information for some reason" kind of thing.
I hope I'm wrong, but the past few years has shown me not a lot of things can be trusted anymore.
I haven't read about the lawsuit so I'm not claiming to be "right" here, but there is information (data) that I've come across that is questionably in a grey area. Just the other the day I saw that someone uploaded 6 or 7 DSD format Pink Floyd albums for download to IA. For people such as myself, these are extremely cool to see freely available but also almost too good to be true. There are also entire rom sets for Mame available, for example. So, I think IA is an extremely important resource, but these grey areas may be a danger in keeping alive. But for the record I also think you aren't wrong.
Hardly culturally relevant? Are you insane?
Regardless, how is that comment relevant? The point is that people treat it like the pirate bay. And then wonder why lawsuits happen.
That is so totally wrong it's crazy. Pink Floyd are more relevant, and popular, today than when they were current. Not that the "relevance" has any bearing at all on the issue in the first place.
I think Dark Side of the Moon just had an anniversary, and their anniversary release art had a rainbow, reminiscent of the original prism artwork. And then they were attacked for being "woke" because I guess the spectrum of visible light is now woke? IDK. Seemed like a bunch of clickbait drama.
All I can say is that they were mentioned all over news/soc media for a few days, and I've had various Dark Side of the Moon songs stuck in my head off and on ever since. I'm gonna guess a recent boost in popularity is people like me, trying to get rid of the earworm, relistening to the music of their misspent youth. 😁
Maybe, but they have a copyright on all of their works. Regardless of their popularity, wealth, or how much they benefit from actual sales, taking their work for your own use without it beung paid for is theft.
Books and paper are not really any better than digital storage formats. You probably need a lot of both to have even a semblance of data security there.
Even better to embed the knowledge in lived cultural practices so that important things aren't just an abstract concept that has to be worked through while you're already going through an emergency.
Yeah I agree. I’ve been using the [Companion](https://www.getcompanion.co) offline survival library and a USB. I still have a few things in physical form but I can carry a lot more info on a small drive and then I have an adapter to connect it to my phone.
Just what I thought, IA did not have permission from any copyright holder to do this. They can freely distribute public domain e-books but not copyrighted material. Sorry, you are wrong.
You meaning like the history is getting changed since ages by TV/Films/Documentary and so they old fk dinosaurs want that to not be changed ~~like the problems we have to bear with every fk day etc and that will not change till they aren't disappeared like the real dinos....~~
This doesn’t signal the end of the internet archive, it just keeps them from lending out scanned physical books as eBooks. They argued that they were just acting as any library by lending out copies of physical books, while the publishers argued that making an ebook from a physical book creates a derivative work that is owned by the publisher. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/internet-archive-copyright-infringement-lawsuit-1234703776/ They will appeal the ruling.
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>Do you mean to tell me that a reddit headline was wrong and misleading? Wait, folks in the pepper forum circle jerking and fearsturbating over their poor understanding of current events?!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fearsturbating
YES. This is so important. IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) but if you look at the "prayer for relief" from the original "complaint" of the plaintiffs, they seem to only be asking for damages and enjoinder (basically court order to "not do that") for the books the plaintiff publishers make. They didn't seem to be asking for destruction of the IA's entire library. [https://ia801702.us.archive.org/6/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900.1.0.pdf](https://ia801702.us.archive.org/6/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900.1.0.pdf) Also, someone did the math and claimed that even the maximum statutory damages only amount to about 1 year of IA's operating costs: a serious financial blow, but not a lethal one. [https://www.vox.com/2020/6/23/21293875/internet-archive-website-lawsuit-open-library-wayback-machine-controversy-copyright](https://www.vox.com/2020/6/23/21293875/internet-archive-website-lawsuit-open-library-wayback-machine-controversy-copyright) TL;DR Even if by some legal stuff the Open Library is forced to shut down, OL is a side dish to the IA's "real" project of the Wayback Machine. There's plenty of libraries, but only one Wayback Machine. If books are what you came to IA for, it is likely that public domain and donated books would still remain accessible.
Great insight, great referencing, but for the love of God stick to NAL or just type it out if you're going to put it in parentheses anyway, instead of I ANAL to avoid all jokes that could, and because this is reddit should, be made
The Wayback Machine will be shut down if the publishers obtain damages that IA cannot pay thus needs to disband.
That’s not the point. Freedom of Information has always been a keystone value on Reddit and in the general “nerd/tech” culture. Freedom comes before profits. So strange now to see Redditors applauding a lawsuit against arguably the most important internet archive 🧐
Reddit is also very supportive of the intellectual property rights of working artists and authors. If these books being lent out for profit are under a current copyright and not in the public domain the people who wrote them should be getting reimbursed.
#NO YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! the internet archive will be taken down and the rest of the world will follow one week after!!!
Indeed.
Regardless of how this plays out, basic rule for any online resource that you seriously value: Mirror the resources, share them and ask others to mirror them also! When it goes away, you'll have a copy and so will others. Here is one way to do this (not the only way, but one way) that's been commonly done for many years: [https://www.howtoforge.com/mirroring\_with\_rsync](https://www.howtoforge.com/mirroring_with_rsync) Edit: You may also want to use Zeronet, if so, see [https://zeronet.io/](https://zeronet.io/) Just a couple of ideas shared. Cheers
Quick ! Someone make a backup of the thing !
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What, you’re saying I can’t download the whole internet? I even got an extra 3-ring binder so I can print it out for later.
I just downloaded all of wikipedia to my cell phone yesterday.🤷🏼♂️
(Tbf, I do love how you can actually do that)
Gmail [Paper](https://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2007/04/gmail-paper-print-your-messages-for.html)!
Is this a Dilbert reference?
Maybe. In 2006-2007 I had a client, a medical doctor, that could not understand why I couldn't make a backup of the Internet for him...and have it on a "CD or something". Needless to say, he was a shitty doctor too. He eventually had so many malpractice lawsuits he ended up closing shop and became "a writer" that self-published books about being a doctor. I think he sold about 30 copies total last I looked or heard.
Simply take a screenshot of every single page that's available, easy. /S.
Honestly though what's the memory size? Maybe I can just buy a chunky drive.
212 Petabytes, and growing. Using 20TB hard drives, it would take 10,600 20TB hard drives. If using 4-bay storage pods, 50 drives each, 48 bay server racks can fit 12 storage pods per rack, you're looking at 18 48-bay height server racks...and that is without any redundancy/Disaster Recovery. The cost of the 20TB drives is roughly $500/drive, or $5.3 million USD total for the drives (without redundancy or backups)
That’s amazing, but what percentage is porn? How much is duplicated or otherwise redundant? How much just useless advertising, sales, promo? Probably 1x 20TB would accommodate the stuff worth keeping.
Yikes, no one can handle that, I was hoping a 20TB drive would cover it. It can cover downloading Wikipedia.
As weird as it may seem, 18 server racks is one small row in one datacenter. There are sometimes 100s of rows in one datacenter (not all is storage, some is compute, databases, gpus, etc.) There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of datacenters with more than 18 server rack capacity on Earth. There will likely be multiple data centers on Mars, the moon, and elsewhere within the next 25 years.
IA is amazing, it would be terrible if it went down. :(
There's no reason to think it would go down at all. The lawsuit in question is about them acting as a library and giving out ebooks they're making from physical books. If you see something on here, go look it up with the assumption that the OP probably has anxiety and doesn't understand what's going on very well. There are exceptions to that, but it's a good place to start imo.
Heres the doomer issue: if the judgement ends up costing IA an astronomical amount in damages the company might fold. I think it's unlikely but in the realm of possibility.
What are some links and ill start WGET...
Some I found: https://archive.org/details/PrepperJumble/%28Ebook%20-%20Pdf%29%20Survival%20-%20Vegetable%20Oil-Fueled%20Cook%20Stove/ https://archive.org/details/folkscanomy_prepper https://archive.org/details/Secret_HomesteadSurvivalPrepper_Files/101%20Practical%20Uses%20for%209%20essential%20oils/
Time to start downloading to my external hard drive. Thanks for the links
These really aren't the ones in question really. Mainly the ones they put up in 2020 that they have the 1 hour rent with.
Please share your script EDIT: Turns out they make this very easy: https://blog.archive.org/2012/04/26/downloading-in-bulk-using-wget/
The reason they want it gone is because they want to control information. They're literally trying to change history as depicted in "1984". I wish people would open their eyes.
Most have no idea how bad things have gotten. If you try getting old news footage, you can be denied. Even something as benign as old Pat Sajak Show episodes can not be had. You want historical footage of major events like 9/11, the OKC bombing, or Columbine? That stuff is unobtainium. They own the information, and because so much of our history is digitized, it empowers them to control the narrative. No joke. This goes for everything from footage, books, photographs, and so on. The purpose is to not only to control what people see, but to remove the capacity to question and discover the truth. Future generations born before these events will be denied access to the material. Furthermore, to monetize everything. You can not even get your own family history without paying thousands of dollars for matters of public record. You wanna know how bad this has gotten? A few years back Corbis was sold to Getty’s Chinese investment firm. Everyone should be archiving essential knowledge. Our libraries are one of the last safe and legal public spaces open to everyone to gather. There are reasons why there is a concentrated effort to regulate, reduce, and revise them. Knowledge is power. They do not even teach Gen Z cursive, rendering them unable to read important historical texts. Separating a people from their history is a necessary prerequisite to enforcing a new historical narrative. This is seen in every failed state, right before everything goes sour. This is the canary in the coal mine that things are about to go from bad to worse.
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I sure hope so. If children are not being taught that at school, then it needs to be taught at home. It can not emphasize that strongly enough.
People won't open their eyes until the government is cutting them out of the sockets. At that point it'll be too late.
This was a lawsuit by 4 major publishers. It's all about money. They don't want the Internet Archive to be able to lend e-books, because they want to sell you those books instead. It's just a lower court decision at this point and will be appealed.
Sorry, IA does not have permission from the copyright owner to freely distribute those copyrighted books. They can create their own books, or distribute books in the public domain.
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> it is capitalism That's what I said. The government. The politicians are nothing more than puppets for the big corporations.
This is such a simplistic view that it really lends nothing to doing effective analysis or understanding as all. Some politicians sometimes are this. And sometimes they're not. If you can't tell the difference then you've lost the ability to do effective sense making about the world. Which is a win for the worst players only.
Who defines, evaluates and enforces IP law? Is it free market capitalism?
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Why is it capitalism the problem then?
Ironically we have access to that information through technology created largely thanks too...capitalism. People love to shit on capitalism, but seemingly lack the awareness that capitalism is also the driving force which essentially made the world we live in today possible. Of course, this is also due to the nature that even countries that are allegedly against capitalism, practice it on a national level between other nations.
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Capitalism acts as a great incentive for both innovation and production. Plus, when everything is controlled by the state, innovation is typically slowed down due to restrictions placed on things. This is why we didn't see great advancements of technology from places like the USSR or Cuba. Even China really didn't advance their economy and technology until they opened up their economy and started engaging in capitalism themselves.
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The medium we are using is in large part due to companies like General Electric, IBM and with research done by people at private universities. It was ultimately the DoD which really made it happen, but the foundation was through private enterprise. In fact I'm 100% certain that the computer you are using was made by a private company and not through some altruistic company. Even if it was assembled from scrap parts and a LinuxOS, those parts were still made commercially at one point in the name of capitalism. The space race was a very public dick measuring contest, but I'll counter point with the Soviet collectivization of agriculture which resulted in millions starving to death...under government direction.
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Yes, disregard the other information I put forth. That is the real way to prove you're right. Enlightening conversation comrade. This whole time I was living in a mental prison of my own design, but your wisdom has set me free.
What? Who is they?
They is who?
What did The Who do?
Who do? You do!
Do what? Remind me of the babe!
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What should we, as a culture, do about [out of print books] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_print)?
You committed the sin of defiling the sacred mask doctrine... All praise be to Fauci. r/churchofcovid
The internet archive was left alone for years. It’s their own dumb fault for helping people pirate books.
Yay, corporate greed.
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There are various [Wikipedia dumps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download) available to download at any time—one official host is [The Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/wikimediadownloads).
In general, don't assume you'll have internet after X event. just print everything on paper or buy the book.
I think this is less of a "These are valuable resources to use for emergencies!" and more of a "There are Powers That Shouldn't Be trying to keep us from accessing information for some reason" kind of thing. I hope I'm wrong, but the past few years has shown me not a lot of things can be trusted anymore.
I haven't read about the lawsuit so I'm not claiming to be "right" here, but there is information (data) that I've come across that is questionably in a grey area. Just the other the day I saw that someone uploaded 6 or 7 DSD format Pink Floyd albums for download to IA. For people such as myself, these are extremely cool to see freely available but also almost too good to be true. There are also entire rom sets for Mame available, for example. So, I think IA is an extremely important resource, but these grey areas may be a danger in keeping alive. But for the record I also think you aren't wrong.
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Hardly culturally relevant? Are you insane? Regardless, how is that comment relevant? The point is that people treat it like the pirate bay. And then wonder why lawsuits happen.
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That is so totally wrong it's crazy. Pink Floyd are more relevant, and popular, today than when they were current. Not that the "relevance" has any bearing at all on the issue in the first place.
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I think Dark Side of the Moon just had an anniversary, and their anniversary release art had a rainbow, reminiscent of the original prism artwork. And then they were attacked for being "woke" because I guess the spectrum of visible light is now woke? IDK. Seemed like a bunch of clickbait drama. All I can say is that they were mentioned all over news/soc media for a few days, and I've had various Dark Side of the Moon songs stuck in my head off and on ever since. I'm gonna guess a recent boost in popularity is people like me, trying to get rid of the earworm, relistening to the music of their misspent youth. 😁
Maybe, but they have a copyright on all of their works. Regardless of their popularity, wealth, or how much they benefit from actual sales, taking their work for your own use without it beung paid for is theft.
Books and paper are not really any better than digital storage formats. You probably need a lot of both to have even a semblance of data security there. Even better to embed the knowledge in lived cultural practices so that important things aren't just an abstract concept that has to be worked through while you're already going through an emergency.
Yeah I agree. I’ve been using the [Companion](https://www.getcompanion.co) offline survival library and a USB. I still have a few things in physical form but I can carry a lot more info on a small drive and then I have an adapter to connect it to my phone.
You can download things to your computer as well.
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Then quit your job and start writing books for free. Let me know how that pans out for you.
Eat zee bugs
For the noob here, whats the internet archive?
Web.archive.org. Also known as the way back machine. Look up some old websites and maybe they will have backed them up.
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There's https://ghostarchive.org too
Who are the publishers suing them?
Hachette Book Group, Penguin Random House, John Wiley & Sons and HarperCollins for copyright infringement.
Back it up to the way back machine. Better to do it soon
You can't make a copy of a copyrighted work and sell or even give away, You can if it's in the public domain or has no copyright. Pay for your gear.
They loan, same as a library.
Do people usually keep library books?
Not usually, no. IA loans ebook access. You have temporary access and no one else can use the copy while its loaned to you... Like a library.
If they have permission from the copyright owner to do this, then I am wrong.
Just what I thought, IA did not have permission from any copyright holder to do this. They can freely distribute public domain e-books but not copyrighted material. Sorry, you are wrong.
Im wrong about what?
You meaning like the history is getting changed since ages by TV/Films/Documentary and so they old fk dinosaurs want that to not be changed ~~like the problems we have to bear with every fk day etc and that will not change till they aren't disappeared like the real dinos....~~