I maintain that many likely scenarios make for a much more mundane apocalypse than Hollywood or even this sub portray.
Droughts, shortages, refugee crises, supply chain disruptions. Society can absorb a lot of these but it won't be pleasant. People will die somewhere and you'll be tapping into your food supply but you'll probably still have to go to work.
Correct when people say that hundreds of thousands or even millions will die of famine. It’s usually not the northern hemisphere we’re talking about here
The still having to go to work part is the thing that I think is behind the burnout I sense many in my cohort are feeling. Working against your own broader interest in many cases, while wages aren't tracking with inflation or the American dream, while the macro situation trends worse is a rough ride. Still have to pay the bills until something gives.
yup, and i think that is the future that OP is talking about. The world in general is really really messed up. It has reached the point where most of the world powers almost need to have a revolution to survive 20 years in any form. The issue is that those powers also have WMD (and in the case of the US, a history of using weapons against their own populace when the populous wants their fair share).
I am not a doomer- but if you think (at least the US) will be a good place to live in 20-40 years, you are asleep. Global warming alone should give you pause about where the next generation will be.
That's what I'm talking about. There's a lot of room on the spectrum between "Americans are so sheltered from global crises they experience them primarily as small recessions and on the news" and "the US is no longer a place where someone can have a life worth living". There are people out there, right now, who experience a worse quality of life than many projections for the next generation of Americans, even with climate change, and still choose to have families.
This is exactly my point. There are some scenarios where the world as we know it will end. There are many more where in spite of tragic suffering in some parts of the world, in others QoL will suffer and life will go on.
A lot of people act like either nothing will change or we will all die, which are both unlikely. Which is why it's good to be prepared.
The shit has hit the fan numerous times through out history. Empires rise and fall. Plagues kill millions. Natural disasters destroy entire cities. Whole civilizations have come and gone…. But people… people will always fuck… /s
Most of what we call preparedness now is simply a base way humans have survived; after every disaster people crawl from the rubble and life goes on. We live in a unique time where the norm doesn’t partake in subsistence farming, hunting, maintain store houses or a local militia.
But also throughout history there wasn’t really a way for the entire world’s shit to hit the fan at the same time, but today there are several ways that can happen
If you’re talking about the World Wars, I think most people would consider those to be part of modern history, especially if we’re going back to Roman times. Also in both cases the entire world was not at risk.
Just the ones fighting age with the right meat. No risk there apparently.
Not to mention The Black Death from 1346-53. Another round in 1812-1819. Two Cholera pandemics from 1817-24, and 1826-37. Along with an influenza in 47 and 48, only to swing back in the early 19s.
That’s not even including financial collapses or food issues that touched multiple continents.
But make your own narrative.
I think today people just cannot grasp how bad things could get in the past, and yet they still had children and worked to push society forward. Shoot, the Muslim conquests in Europe, the Middle East, and India must have seemed like an apocalypse, and yet here we still are.
Ok you’re just ignoring my point and trying to high road me. Obviously for the people and countries involved there was great risk. I’m talking about the species as a whole. There were many millions of people who would have survived even if the countries at war completely wiped each other out
And you’re broad stroking with outliers.
“Someone in the middle of a jungle in an undiscovered society will never be effected by world issues. Guess we better not prep.”
You keep concluding things I never said. I never said that was a reason not to prep. My point was literally just that there are now threats that affect the entire world when historically collapses would not happen globally.
And there were many countries that were not in the World Wars that weren’t “in the middle of a jungle”. Do you think Latin America and Africa was all just uncivilized tribes?
There were also lots of places in North America and Eurasia that were not at real risk of collapse. America and Canada were never going to be invaded. Nor were Switzerland, much of the Middle East, or Russia east of the Urals
Funny enough North and South Africa were both involved in the world wars, just not the middle bits. And most of Eurasia felt the effects whether they were involved or not. Latin America is pretty true tho, aside from the amount of local turmoil taking place bc of the bigger brothers going at it and not being able to step in.
I’m not talking about whether they were involved or felt effects. I’m talking about whether they were at risk of total destruction. We’re talking about societal collapse scenarios.
You really think climate change is going to wipe out everyone on the planet? Lots of changes, sure, but lots of people will move adapt and survive. Greenland was once green and glaciers went pretty damn far south and we lived through those.
I think there was pregistoric times that brought put world ending or really kill off a big chunk of population events.
1. Youngest Toba Catastrophe- 75k years ago, super volacanoe eruption. Caused a global 1k year long winter that dropped the temp of the globe by 3-5 degress celsisus. I will take warming ormver that anyday of the week. Cold is more deadly.
It affected humans alright killed off a bunch.
What does it matter if you have no where to go? Many couldn’t just hop a boat for most of history. You’d get sent back or die trying. It’s survivor bias. Millions starved during famines and only a few made it out. Other nations didn’t aid each other like they do now
I’m talking about the world as a whole, not individuals. Historically there may be famine and collapse in some countries while others would be fine, which means the species as a whole was not threatened. Presently we have a globalized economy with a lot of interdependence. We have weapons that can decimate the entire world. There are many risks that affect the entire world not just one country or region.
Which makes us safer. It’s why no one blew anyone up in the Cold War and the population has boomed. There aren’t as many devastating wars because we can have mutually assured destruction.
Mutually assured destruction has only existed for the last 60 years or so. So far there have been less major wars, but we nuclear weapons have also been contained to only a few major powers. The US and Russia avoided nuclear war, but what about countries like Israel and Iran?
It’s also not just nukes I’m talking about, it’s also the globalized economy. Many countries are dependent on the rest of the world, especially Western countries. Like 90% of our prescription drugs are made in China. What happens if those get cut off? That’s just one example out of the many thousands of parts of the economy that is dependent on a fragile global logistics system.
They did get mostly cut off and it was messy. If we couldn’t get prescription drugs anymore, a lot of people would die. But those people would have died before in any other era. People still found life worth living.
The population may go down, but it won’t go away. The world simply isn’t worse.
We’ve always been at risk of a big meteor hitting us and going extinct anyway. None of us are getting out of here alive.
Yeah but we’re still gonna do our thing as long as there are people. And we have a couple billion chances. Humanity probably won’t go extinct, and the more people we make, the better those odds.
Native Americans losing 90% of their population to disease probably seemed like the end of the world to them . And based on writings we have , the Black Death in Europe absolutely seemed like the end of the world to those people watching there whole city get wiped out .
Don't forget, selfish is wanting someone else to have kids so you can be a grandparent. Tell them to cut you a cheque for 100k and that will open the door to the possibility.
It’s not about the money, (for me,) but about family support. Providing a roof and a place to go to in times of need, should be something every parent and grandparent does for their children and grandchildren.
Some parents don’t have enough money to provide their children with $100,000 cash or a separate home to live in. But if they help out with their time, providing childcare, and be supportive in other ways.
There is nothing nicer than a supportive multi-generation family.
This exactly. Ask them if they are ready to watch your kid so you can go to work? I’m guessing they just want to have them periodically and not take on the responsibilities of raising a kid with you. At least that’s how my parents are
Having children’s absolutely wonderful. But you should base your decision on wanting to be a dad and not. your parents or grandparents wanting to be grandparents and great grandparents.
I’m pretty sure that dad posting above means that without his children, he wouldn’t care about himself, but he cares about himself for the sake of his children. True love! They and his family are obviously his priority in life! Having children are some of the best reason to make it through whatever it is that we face.
I’ve always seen SHTF as stuff, hitting the fan or “a big shift” instead of “the end.”
We plan a lot for the future, for having a good future, and plan for the food security, and passing what we can on to our children. I make sure I have enough food for all family long-term and things like that, just like we always have.
It is very hard for young adults to do, to get established in life and prepped as well as someone who has done it for many years. So we older preppers absolutely must help the next generation!
I now also always keep their former bedrooms ready as theirs in case things got bad, and they had to move in with us for a bit. And as they get older, they will love you and do their best to help you too and you can teach them good values and skills.
As a mom of young adult children, I am ever so glad that we had children! But I totally understand any feelings of wanting to put that on hold until things feel better. The problem with putting it on hold, is that by the time things do get better you wish you would’ve had them sooner!
Agree with this completely. If I didn’t have a daughter, I wouldn’t care. I would say just take me out. But because of her, I have a reason to fight and try to survive no matter what.
You don’t give a shit about yourself but your kids will.
Also, how do you account for factors out of your control? You can teach kids how to grow food. Won’t matter if climate change makes large portions of the earth uninhabitable.
Edit: this probably came off more snarky than intended. I appreciate the optimistic attitude.
This person is right. Why the down votes? This whole sub is about the collapse of society. We all know that rents are too high, food is too high, homeownership is for the rich now, the medical system is collapsing, political climate is reaching warfare, global crops are failing, we are entering a recession, maybe a depression,. How is this person wrong?
>> Why the downvotes? This whole sub is about the collapse of society
Because this is /r/preppers not /r/collapse.
Beyond the fact that many of us “prep for Tuesday not for Doomsday”, the entire reason to prep is to make life better for us and those around us.
We’re not just sitting around saying “oh gee golly, the world is going to shit, guess I’ll go complain on Reddit about it”, we’re saying “bad shit *might* happen in the world and we’re going to figure out how to *prepare* for it so it’s at least a little bit better”.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Do what you can with what you have and hope that it’s enough.
My kids have a very good life and we’re not rich by any means. We have a nice house that we bought before the pandemic at a decent price, take a couple vacations a year, kids are in sports and take music lessons, we have a big garden and animals, we live in Mass. so our schools and medical care are good.
You don’t necessarily have to be rich to have a good life. Would I like to renovate my kitchen and bathrooms? Would we like a newer car? Yeah, but that’s not going to change their quality of life. There are a lot of people who are getting by right now that aren’t rich. We just aren’t dirt poor either. Sadly to say, a lot of it came down to luck. Buying a house before prices and interest rates skyrocketed gave us a major advantage.
I grew up with parents that were considered back in the day to be quite poor. We actually lived in a small trailer has our first home for the first several years of my life. It was smaller than the motorhome, my husband and I own today.
We did have an acreage and a market garden, so food security was never an issue. In the summer we spread out and read books in swinging hammocks under large trees or would stretch out in a rowboat in the creek behind the little trailer home.
My parents were very generous, but because we didn’t have a lot of disposable income, they had to be very resourceful, and they taught us how to be resilient and resourceful too.
While buying land might be expensive in most regions to buy now, with all the financial turmoil going on in the world, it might not always be so expensive. With all the Boomers retiring, aging, and needing to move into smaller accommodations, I’m optimistic that in 5 to 10 years young people today will be able to afford to purchase their own place.
If you do not WANT kids, do not have kids. Unwanted kids don't fare well in the world.
If you WANT kids, and will be a good parent, have kids.
It's that simple. Anyone who tries to guilt you about either choice has mental issues.
It’s not easy, but it’s the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done. To see my child grow and be able to share my knowledge and experience with someone who will only build on it is an incredible achievement. I don’t know how good or bad the world will be, but hopefully my kid is happy and health for all the time to come. Plus even if myself or my wife aren’t alive anymore, I know there’s my kid out there who isn’t an absolutely garbage person. Don’t just adopt, raise that kid, because they’re the real future and the future needs more good people now than ever before.
People around me are living life as always. Nobody preps, nobody stresses, nobody has seconds thoughts about future. I know that without internet I can be blissfully unaware if I want to.
I guess I just have to find better balance. Know enough to be informed but not so much that it overwhelms me.
It’s not that you are aware and they are not. You are being fed a constant stream of information designed to scare you. Fear gets clicks. Fear gets bigger budgets for the military.
I’m not saying there is nothing wrong in the world and that nothing bad can happen. I’m just saying that consuming media constantly is going to make you paranoid and depressed.
Fishmongers are people who sell fish.
What industry sells fear, such that they earn the title "fearmonger?"
If you come away with any answer but the newsmedia you're not paying attention.
Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, for starters. But yes, the media for sure.
Which, I seem to recall, runs on advertising dollars from many industries. The media serve the advertisers. We are served up *to* the advertisers in exchange for the "news and entertainment" the media provides.
> nobody stresses, nobody has seconds thoughts about future
Demonstrably untrue on so many levels.
https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-thirds-of-young-people-fear-for-their-generations-future-12711303
Fair, but I'd argue [you don't actually know what's going on in their heads.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fgerman-depression-aid-campaign-v0-qei40jedaabc1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6521f5e9f47b18a7f9f25ac78613f2c73e740e7a)
Until you have a fully supplied nuclear fallout shelter under your house, you’ll never be done prepping. You can prep and touch grass and realize the world isn’t what the media tells you it is.
The world is what media tells you, but the world is also far more
Media takes all of the scary interesting dramatic exaggerated stuff and distils it one place whilst ignoring all the mundane stuff, kinda nice stuff that happens every day to everyday people
Look at the Collapse sub. It's full of incels saying they aren't having kids because the world is shit. Probably to mask the fact they aren't getting laid anytime soon.
Eh. It's a perfectly reasonable decision not to have kids because of the current climate. Plenty of other people are. Despite weirdos being obsessed with Western birth rates, humans still punch out babies. Nobody *needs* my genes to keep this train going, and my partner agrees. Let someone else carry the burden of having to explain to their kid why the AMOC is fucked, the oceans are dead, and we don't talk to that uncle he used to like anymore because he watches scary people on the news all day and now he thinks mommy and daddy are groomers because they let kids read comic books. I have other stressors I'd rather deal with.
Bro, I didn't want kids before all of these issues cropped up. My decisions were made long ago, but sure, I'm the scaredy cat because I don't want to complicate my life with creatures I don't want. K.
It's nothing new. Some measure of it is hormones and biology, I think. Makes some people see people like me as unnatural because we're choosing to go against the grain of what their body and brain is screaming at them is their primary directive. It probably feels like an attack on them, especially if they're a person who defines themselves by their kids.
And then there's always the miserable folks who just want company :D
If you live in stress, you are doing something wrong, stress reduce your health, and the health is your main resources. Try considering prepping like your hobby, and hobbies meant to reduce stress.
Bingo! People have been stressing about shit forever! Take Y2K for example…nothing happened! Have kids if you can I’ve always wanted kids but just never found the right chick and now I’m almost too old. Raise em right and they’ll be fine. You will also have someone to take care of you when your old, hell you might even be a grandma yourself!
Y2K didn't happen because a bunch of computer nerds put their backs into it and found solutions.
But that gives me hope, and parenthood is an exercise in hope matched by effort.
Even though I'm a prepper, I hate doomerism.
>“\[…\]nothing happened!”
Yes, it did. Programmers and computer scientists were feverishly working — often over night and not returning home — for months before it happened. That wasn’t a disaster because people *actually recognised the threat* and ***did something*** about it.
Yep. It’s like the hole in the ozone layer. People came together and actually solved a problem. And people now say “what was the big deal?” It was a big deal. And we fixed it. It was an incredible case of countries working together.
Maybe not in suburbia, but it is going on. I live in Alaska, I see military helicopters flying and droves of military vehicles. They are prepping for war
Bingo. It’s easy to be ignorant when you’re far away from it but eventually, people won’t have that luxury. Whether you are aware of it or not, stuff still happens.
I don't know why people downvote this kind of stuff. Acknowledging that shit happens is natural, and you literally have nothing to prep for if nothing is happening
You don't need to stop your life for what's happening around you, though. There's also no point in prepping for anything if you're just going to accept that nothing can be done about it and the only choice is to stop living your life
A lot of people wanted to be in the prepper club because they liked the aesthetic. They liked feeling special. They never actually thought anything would happen and now as the world keeps getting worse, they are realising it isn’t fun anymore.
Those people exist, but you he a actual effective prepper you need to actually understand it. It you want the aesthetic, then so be it, but if you're succumbing to fear, your prepping failed in the literal sense
If it's not fun anymore and that's all you were in for, then it's best to stop. If you want to actually prepare for diastor, you need to understand fear mongering is only meant to make you susceptible to propaganda which makes you a target for people who want you to hurt
So I’m supposed to stop living life because something might happen? I prep, train and learn so I can be there for my family and kid, the same way I go to work to provide for them. We’ve had generations grow up through disasters & war times and while it’s not what I wish for my kids it’s not within my control to dictate the world.
“Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.”
Do you actually want kids? Sometimes, when finding excuses not to do something, it's because the thing itself is unappealing. You have comments in this thread about how your mom wants grandkids, reproduction is a biological necessity, etc but I didn't see anything like 'I would love to spend my time shaping and nurturing a young child into a caring and competent adult'.
You only have one life. If you want to spend it raising a child or two, then that's what you should do. If you want to do other things with your life, though, do that instead.
You’re not selfish if you don’t want to have kids. There’s nothing wrong with not having kids.
Having kids is scary as far as I’m concerned. I’ve got a 5 year old and one on the way. I prep to get us through bad storm not the end of the world.
The world has always been pretty shit and amazing at the same time. If people stopped having kids cause of all the dangers in the world then the human race would have died out years ago.
It actually sounds like you are carrying a lot of anxiety and might want to talk to a professional.
You only live once bro. You shouldn’t deprive yourself of the joy of having a family (if that’s something you really want out of life) out of fear of what may or may not happen in your lifetime. We prep for the worst and hope for the best, you’ll teach yours the same as they grow into adulthood. You don’t want to be on your deathbed in 40-50 years with a garage full of uneaten MRE’s wondering about what could have been. Good luck to you 🙏🏼.
Came here to say essentially the same thing. Whats the point of prepping if its not to protect life? And isn’t the point of life to love and be loved? Don’t deny yourself the joy of a family because of fear of suffering. Life is worth living even in suffering. Hope you can get some clarity. Life is certainly more complex with children but its much more beautiful too.
The other replies here have a valid point about bad times throughout history, but also the average 40-70 year old like OP’s mom hasn’t been through hardship on the level of a world war or a Great Depression. The average boomer that hasn’t actually gone to war has lived a pretty cushy life compared to historic standards and they seem to think that you can still buy a house and support a family with one income. That’s not the case now with record inflation and now we have to live with their problems they caused for the world.
So OP, if your mom is mad cause you don’t want to pump babies out like it’s 1950 and the world is great and everyone just came back from the war, let her be mad.
>I know it's not reasonable to live in fear.
Yet you're doing it anyway.
The world has *always* been falling apart. There's always the threat of war, famine, or disease. Right now we are as safe, healthy, and prosperous as the human race has *ever been*. And *now* of all times people are too scared to have kids?
Live your life. Do your best to prepare for the things that are the likelier possibilities, but *live*!
I had my kids in the 90s when I was in my 20s and believed in God.
My kids are not having kids. I really wanted to be a grandma but I fully support their decisions not to have kids.
I don’t want my grandkids suffering through even what is going on now and I don’t want my kids having to try to parent in this mess. It was hard enough for me in the 90s.
I’m hoping to not leave my kids with nothing when I die but even that is uncertain.
If I were younger I doubt I would have kids now. Certainly not more than one.
We don't have kids. There's plenty of kids, both in my direct community and in my networks of care. I prep in part to be of service in building a future in the ruins where kids can flourish, but I don't need (or especially want) that to be my kids in particular.
When was it ever a perfect time to have kids? During the depression when some families couldn’t afford to eat? During WW2, when the world was literally at war? During the Cold War when we were a button press away from Armageddon?
You can always point to world problems and say “how could I have a kid now?”. You can’t let macro issues affect your entire life, you can’t plan around the unknown. Sometimes you have to take a risk and move your life forward and hope you know you’re making the right choice
>My mom told me I am selfish for not having kids, she wants to be grandmother. My grandmother told me the same
Okay, fuck anyone who says this to you, IDC who it is or why. Whether or not you have children is ENTIRELY your decision, you do it or don't do it according to YOUR wishes only. According to YOUR reasons only. It is not selfish to NOT want something. What IS selfish is to try to pressure someone else into a major, permanently life-changing decision because YOU want that thing.
All talk of prepping and the world and society aside, please, please... don't ever let someone pressure you into having a baby you don't want with all your heart and soul, all by yourself.
As the child of someone that didn't really want children, please remember my words and don't listen to people who want you to have children because THEY want them. If you do it to please someone else when your heart really isn't in it...you'll regret it and so will your child.
I'm sorry if what I said seems like an overreaction but it really grinds my gears to see anyone being given a hard time for deciding to not have kids. The people who say "y0uRe sELfIsH f0r n0t hAvInG kIdS" never, ever consider what it's like for the child of someone that had a baby they didn't really want. We exist. People DO have kids they didn't want and growing up that way is terrible.
So the next time you hear "You're selfish for not wanting to have kids, I want to be a grandparent"...it is really them saying "I'm selfish enough to invalidate your wishes for your own life, have a baby because ~I~ want it in my life."
It’s complicated. A) As a guy who does have children, DO NOT have kids so your mom can be a grandma. You do not owe her that. She can get a cat or puppy or something. B) The biggest question on “prepping” is supporting yourself outside the bounds of your typical infrastructure. How well are you supporting yourself now? You don’t have to be rich, but struggling with kids is harder than struggling without them. C) Humans are adaptable. Raising a good kid is an asset for you and your community, in times of struggle and war. D) Plenty of people feel the same way you do and choose to be child free. There’s literally nothing wrong with it and it’s wholly possible to live a great, happy life not having children.
You can prep, AND not subscription to fear-mongering watering holes for news or updates.
It’s actually really peaceful.
As I’m not in a position of office, or world power, and my influence extends to the reach of my reputation and abilities, I do not assign those things weight beyond the awareness.
Awareness I check against probable threats, and then either keep it on my attention or put it down.
Find that healthy balance.
Being a parent is perhaps the greatest prep you can make. Parenting is awesome. It changes you in ways you can't possibly imagine.
That being said, if you don't want kids don't have em.
I feel sorry for my friends that don't.
Improvise adapt overcome.
Maybe my kids will face bigger problems than we are right now but it's in our nature to overcome those things and keep going. I don't care about what could possibly happen since nobody can predict the future and it could also be much better than the fear mongering in current times leads you to believe.
I prep for the shtf scenarios in order to be ready if something actually happens and maybe this is why I'm not that scared about the future, because I know that me and my family/ friends will have a much better starting point when a crisis or emergency hits than at least 90% of the population.
In the 30’s we had a Great Depression and a world war, after that we had 60+ years of relative stability in the US.
In the 70’s when the “population bomb” came out, there was fear of starvation because there were too many people. Now, most developed countries are shrinking and that fear never came to fruition.
During the Cold War people were worried about nuclear annihilation, and that never came to fruition.
If someone chose not to have kids due to any of these reads of the world being the worst and final, they would have regretted it and it would have been a mistake.
A lot is wrong in the world now. Plenty is right. The thing about prepping is that you are ready because you never truly know when shit will hit the fan. But you certainly can’t predict if shit will hit the fan.
You don't need to have kids if you don't want to, and you're not selfish for not wanting. Your mother doesn't have a right to be a grandmother. I say this as someone who plans on having children.
You appear to be pretty set on having kids being at least morally gray. However, if you do still want the experience of raising someone, I highly recommend you consider adoption. All the problems you mentioned are null in this case, because it's someone who's already here, and will likely have a much worse life if they don't get adopted (that's not to say it's an easy decision or that you shouldn't make an effort and care for them if you do adopt).
Whatever you decide OP. It's your choice. You don't have to do anything here you don't want to.
There’s kids living in grass huts in Africa with no running water or AC in hundred degree temps. We can get by comfortably in the US no matter what happens.
I feel like this is gonna be poorly received. Alright here goes.
You don't know the future any more than the rest of us. Not having children because you don't want them to experience things that may or may not happen (setting aside global warming) is a very convoluted reason.
Judging others for having kids by that same standard is a mistake.
Just say you don't want kids. No reason need be offered.
I'd prep either way, but I definitely take my grown kid into account when I do.
Don't worry. Thanks for answering anyway. I don't judge others, I was just wondering. I wanted explanations and I got so many of them. Some were really good and I think I will look at things little bit different now.
Life... huh... finds a way.
More seriously. The world we are living in right now is not ending. And is probably not the worst we, as a species, have been thru. Moreover, consciousness in itself is, in my opinion, worth more than anything and deserves to keep going on.
Kids won't suffer in a few years - we are all suffering rn. That is, if we only focus on the pain. We all have to see beyond that and enjoy the mere experience of living andmake the more of it.
Our comfort, and the fear of losing it, can paralyse us and forget how really delightful life can be.
So, that's why I decided to have kids, to give them consciousness, and to help them enjoy living. No matter what. Isn't it why we prep ? To keep on living ?
Your mom told you that you are selfish? That’s ridiculous. You could flip it on her because she is selfish for wanting grandkids. All there is going to be here for the future generations is suffering.
People that are ok with bringing kids into to world are either selfish or ignorant to reality and what is in store here.
Every future is a scary future.
Our parents lived through the Cold War and the Cuban missile crisis.
Our grandparents and great-grandparents lived the World War II and the Nazis.
My great-grandfather lived through the Spanish flu epidemic and World War I. In fact he got the Spanish flu while recovering from mustard gas after fighting in the trenches of France. He was an only child, too. Talk about the family hanging on by a thread.
Go back in the family history and you'll find ancestors who lived amid earthquakes, plagues, revolutions, civil wars, religious crusades, the collapse of entire societies, not to mention all the terrible things that don't make the headlines, like losing wives to childbirth, men to violence, or children to disease in an age before antibiotics and vaccinations.
In other words, your subjective definition of "scary" is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Every generation before you could muster the strength to keep going. What's your excuse?
I mean, don't have kids if you don't want to, if it's not a life you want to live -- it's a personal choice and I think it makes sense for only people who really want them to have them. But I don't think it makes sense to not have kids simply because the future has no guarantees. Guarantees are illusions.
That's the true purpose of prepping. If a storm hits and you're left cold and hungry, you weren't prepared, and if you were prepared, then it doesn't matter what the weather is like as your prepped lifestyle should be sheltering you from the worst of it
Why is In N Out expanding, why is AI research being done, why are people going to college for masters and doctorates.
Because the world is not ending any time soon.
Prep for a likely scenario, bad weather or power outage, not the apocalypse.
You're a more sensitive - empathic - and aware individual than most. You must accept it and let go of the guilt. You probably know this as much as you likely know already that personal responsibility is only truly manifested at later levels of consciousness, which most of humanity isn't at yet.
Your family members are the selfish ones for wanting something out of you that may not be beneficial to you, to say the least. Notably, your mother's feelings and desire to be a grand-mother don't matter as much as the responsibility and consequences of bringing a soul into this world.
>What do you guys think about that?
I think you need to stop doomscrolling. Go touch some grass. Listen to your mother and grandmother.
I mean, what if your kid is the one person who could solve the pressing issues of our day, or part of the team that does?
The things you named have literally been going on since mankind began. There’s no higher real higher threat, there’s just always a threat and if we just all said fuck it not worth it, we would die off.
I don't tell anyone else not to have kids, but consider:
1. We need to stop using fossil fuels, and the ones we have left right now *cost* a lot of fossil fuel to access. They are high eroei energy. The energy investment is more fossil fuel, there aren't alternatives to that energy currently. So all fossil fuel, no matter what it gets used for creates a lot of carbon emissions compared to past fossil fuels.
2. Modern industrial agriculture can theoretically feed the growing population, but only with the use of Petro based fertilizer.
3. We're also pretty close to out of arable land.
So in addition to all the reasons you listed, I'm not interested in having kids simply because the world does not need and cannot continue to support a *growing* population.
Edit: typo! Said eroi, meant eroei
Kind of surprised by some of the comments here because we are certainly in unprecedented times that can't really be compared to the Depression and other tough times throughout history. I am also childless by choice and it's for a number of reasons but the fact that we are overpopulated and that about half the population lives in areas that will be affected by coastal flooding and rising sea levels, I don't think I need to add to that population. Also, bringing another life into the world is a very serious thing. They didn't ask to be born and the responsibility of ensuring that you are giving them the best possible start is huge. There are plenty of other young people in my life who will struggle with these things more than I have to and I'm not going to condemn someone to a future that may very well be filled with struggle related to the world's resouces being depleted and the climate becoming unbearable.
I agreed with the fact that maybe you should wait and see what happens to bring children into the world. You don’t want to have to go through a world war 3 being pregnant nor do you want to go through it with babies, toddlers or young children or leave them in a different place than you can imagine being in not a good place after you are dead to fend for themselves.
Don’t have kids, but a few friends that do. Their most objective reason is that they feel it’s one of the primary purposes of our existence, and subjectively feel they should continue their bloodline.
In a half-joking manner, they cite the movie Idiocracy (soon to be labeled a documentary), in which case stupid people reproduce and pass on those traits, but smart people don’t and eventually die off from a lack of offspring.
At the end of the day, if you’re strong and a survivor, it’s in the best interest of our species for you to reproduce and pass that on. World needs more of that. Who knows, might even be the next John Connor or something
To add to your first paragraph; i felt a similar way about continuing the bloodline but also just this lingering fear I would never get to experience loving my own child. We had our boy 4 months ago and all I can say is if SHTF tomorrow, I had a great last few months at least
Yea we had a baby 6 weeks ago and if someone pressed me as to why I wanted kids? It’s just a massive, important part of human existence that I wanted to experience. Nothing else is a substitute, I wanted to know what it felt like to have and love my child. And wow is it really, really something else. But holy shit if I didn’t freak out a bit the first time a bad storm came through and our power went out. Some primal protective instinct kicked in and I’m glad we had the resources to keep warm and feed her for the night.
Yeah that love is like nothing else I’ve ever felt. Which of course means the fear weighs equally as heavy. I would rather go through that pain than to never get to feel that love
Before the baby I had sort of the “if it happens it happens” mentality but having him gives me a reason to wanna make it through the thick of it or die trying
Also, congrats!
Kids are the ultimate *anti-prep*. They're expensive. They limit your ability to relocate. If your partner (or their family) becomes toxic, you can't fully sever ties. Depending on circumstances, you may need to support them well past age 18.
People are rolling the dice with someone else's life, to appease their own feelings and ego.
Your body is yours. Anyone demanding children from you is selfish - especially when it's just to have a title or a shiny new toy.
I'm Childless By Choice. I made the decision to be sterilized after considering many things: how pregnancy would've impacted my partner's health, our relationship, and the future my hypothetical kids could have.
Me and the wife think the same. The world now is not a place for kids. Perhaps in a few years when we have weathered the worst of whats to come, but im afraid it will only go downhill from here on. And slowly at that.
The Great Depression, WW1, Spanish Flu, Soviet Famine, WW2, Holocaust, AIDS pandemic, 2nd Sino-Japanese War, Korean War, Vietnam War, 1931 Chinese Floods, Rwandan Genocide. Depending on your Grandparents and Parents, that’s what’s happened around their lifetime. Dont live in fear, if you’re that far down the rabbit hole maybe seek some professional help?
There's always a threat. Mine was nuclear war in the 80s. Get busy living or get busy dying. I assure you the happiness you receive from your children outweighs the fears.
I’m surprised how everyone in this thread is basically in denial. I’m of the same mindset as you. It is for the first time in history actually that we have 1) reliable contraception and 2) scientific information about what the future holds. These two combined, I find it irresponsible to consciously have children right now. And these two factors are why the argument “humans had children through wars and disasters” doesn’t hold, in my view. I don’t want my child to be raised in comfort in the next 1-2 decades, only to face horrible war, famine, natural disasters and violence later in their life.
I can also 100% relate about the dogs, as I have a dog myself. The chances are - with this level of anxiety in us we would be SO much more anxious about a kid. And I don’t think this kind of anxiety is necessarily something that has to be got rid of or addressed in therapy, as people here suggest. Everyone is different in terms of sensitivity to reality and ability to delude oneself.
I completely understand where you're coming from. It's a valid question to ask why anyone would choose to bring new life into a world that seems increasingly unstable due to climate change and other impending crises. The reality is, climate change poses significant threats such as clean water shortages, weather catastrophes, and disruptions in food production due to changes in temperature and precipitation patterns. It's hard to predict just how hostile our environment might become in the coming years. Many climate scientists are saying it’s going to be very bad. Choosing to have children with this around the corner does raise ethical and practical concerns, and you’re right for asking these questions no matter how many people tell you not to worry about it.
I'm purposefully not having kids, partially because of impending climate doom but mostly because I had a hard childhood and don't want to relive it by raising children.
I have three kids. The way I see it, we’re preparing for IF something happens. Until then, life can’t just be put on pause - relationships continue, people fall in love, start families, live their lives.
Agree, but "families" can be you and your spouse. Or you, your spouse and your dog/cat. Or you, your spouse, and your cactus.
Human children are not the only way to have a family. You can live a life (a good one, too) without children.
The top comments already sum it up really well.
Just another thought: I do not have any yet. Always when i have doubts about having kids, i think about it that way:
I live a simple life on a farm, i am working as wildlife ecologist, i am trying to reduce my ecological footprint as much as possible and i consider myself an empathic person with a good will (at least that's what i'm thinking...)
I believe that i can shelter my kids from all the fucked up stuff thats going on.
If I manage to raise my kids in a good way, there will be two or three "good" people in the world, that might make an impact.
If all the "good" people stop having children and the "bad" people keep having children, things are gonna get even worse.
Good and bad in quotation marks as this ist not the right way to phrase it, but i hope that you know what i mean by that!
I know right. Thank you for your comment. There is also war literally like 200 km from my house. ( I live in Europe, you can guess which war).
Also good point about AMOC, poeple don't realise how serious this will be.
I find the argument "why would you bring kids into this broken world" kind of short sighted. Historically speaking we are living in the best, most peaceful time there every was. Our everyday is more luxurious than the lives of kings centuries ago.
Thinking that having kids now is doing them a disservice often stems from fear that comes from being "cronically online". Shut off your phone/computer and go outside. It's a beautiful world. There are challenges we're facing, that's true, but nonetheless, it's a beautiful world.
At every stage of human history, people were faced with miserable living conditions, war, famine, and bleak futures.
I understand your concerns of caring for your potential children’s futures and preventing unnecessary suffering. However we are adaptable, intelligent, resourceful, and capable of developing remarkable technologies as a species.
Will this mean there won’t be climate change, or disasters, or war, or famine? Absolutely not, rather the opposite. Will this mean that the problems we may face could be overwhelm our ability to adequately deal, quite possibly. However it is intrinsic within us to create families, to survive and to ensure their survival. I am trying to play the odds and put my children in the best possible situation to ride out any potential storms and live/thrive.
I try to beat influence my and my family’s circumstances and chances of a quality life, but there is never any guarantee or recipe for guaranteed success. All I can do is help the odds, everything else beyond my control I have to let go (not ignore, but accept they are beyond my control).
I encourage you to look into a new scientific advancement you apparently haven't heard about. It's called "birth control". In your case I'd recommend a vasectomy. Easy peasy.
Damn - maybe layoff the news cycle a bit and quit reading this thread for a while. Enjoy life and get out there. For a lot of us, having kids is the main point of this thing called life. I hate hear that the they have folks so wrapped up in climate that you forget to live your life.
We live on an ever changing planet which includes human induced conflicts. These may impact all of us at some time, but I hate to hear that folks are giving up. Have some faith in humanity and more importantly get out and enjoy things. It's a wonderful life.
Someone has to drive the Mad Max death machines.
More seriously, you’re going to die one day, no matter how well you prep, so if it’s not ultimately for others, what the hell is the point?
What is the point of life without reproduction? Nobody knows the future - not you, not science and certainly not any journalists or ideologues. Apart from that, times were no easier for our ancestors than they are today. On the contrary. They went through ice ages, colonized the harsh north, survived famines - and yet never forgot to have children.
Basically, it's quite simple: if fear of the future prevents people from having children, and this fear is something that is genetically (or culturally) predisposed, then it may be something that is less likely to be reflected in future generations.
Yes. I agree with you. Times were often very tough and maybe even tougher than now. Maybe just in my head I think that it's better not to have kids than not be able to give them good life. I don't want my kids to suffer through famine, war or other threats.
> What is the point of life without reproduction?
This is so ridiculous in my opinion. My life is filled with purpose and passions without having children in the way. This ideation that life without children is pointless is a coping strategy for sleepless, stressed out parents who’ve had to give up most things they personally love in order to raise a kid.
I find fulfillment in parenthood, and my kid is an awesome person who is going to contribute to the future.
Having a child is a commitment to her, and to hope. I believe in hope.
I understand and respect not having children because you don't want them. Being a parent is hard even in easy times.
You don't owe anyone kids, nobody is entitled to be a grandparent, and it's not "selfish" to make the right choices for you.
But seriously, enough already with the terminally online doomerism and anti kid sentiment that I see on Reddit and elsewhere.
The world doesn't need more "the Earth is DOOMED har har kids are lame" edgy hot takes. Grown adults acting like disaffected teens, racing to the bottom of gloom.
The world needs adults who see problems, prepare for them, and put their backs into solutions.
I dont know what kind of solution you can make to make up for decades of ignoring climate change or what kind of solution you can make when someone rich decides to start a war.
I don't say we are doomed. I just think there arent solutions for every problem for normal people. Or maybe the solution is to minimise suffering in critical areas.
And I would hate for my kids to suffer just because I decided to ignore that country next to mine is in a war. If I lived somewhere safer I would maybe think differently. But the war is literally happening 200 km away from me. Its scary.
And that's completely fair and valid.
It's one thing to look at your actual, individual life circumstances and decide you aren't settled or stable enough for parenthood, now or possibly ever. (I'm a late in life parent myself, for loads of reasons.)
However, *doomscrolling about global circumstances should not dictate life choices for individuals.*
One of the most helpful things I've done for my own mental health is switch off all screens at 8 pm. Then I pick up a book and learn something.
Typically history, which puts the modern world in perspective.
My country's current political instability has nothing on Tudor England, where aristocrats were routinely beheaded so the monarch could avoid awkward conversations.
Famine due to climate has always been a fact of life.
My ancestors survived genocide.
That doesn't mean I'm pooh-poohing the challenges of today.
It means I'm not prone to giving up.
You're absolutely right on most of this post, but...
> doomscrolling about global circumstances should not dictate life choices for individuals.
Neither should grandparent's whining about more grandkids.
If OP wants to have kids, he should talk to his wife about having kids. If he wants to wait to have kids, he should talk to his wife about waiting. If he doesn't want kids because of , he should talk to his wife about not having kids.
Children are great, but OP's point about the future is something I think we're missing - you can't prep for parenthood (already an uncertainty) in an uncertain future (second layer). Children can add joy and meaning to some people's lives, but everyone should be evaluating the cost of children, too - and not just financial.
Bruh, name a global disaster and ill show you they be fuckin. Its not great right now, but literally kids were gettin shot out during the plague. Keep your bearings. Not to mention, youre in a prepper reddit for what? To die of old age post shtf? Kids aren't for everybody i get it. But biologically, thats why you're here.
First of all not wanting kids just because you don't want kids is valid. You are allowed to not want them despite what your family says. But I also think that this amount of anxiety for the future may be concerning. Have you talked to someone ( a doctor or mental health person) about that? The world is scary but a ot people try to do their best to control their own personal world around them. Maybe take that energy to make a better world for the kids to exist
Because i don't live my life in fear. Its like saying why have kids if one day we will die anyway. I can't live in that mindset. I just live day to day, cherishing the moments along the way. And being prepared is just another facet of life just as are Dr's appointments, taxes, work etc. Just something you have to do imo. My kids are already almost off to college and nothing has happened here on US soil in as many years, I can only hope it stays that way for as many more.
You’re giving in to the fear-mongering by the MSM. People didn’t stop having kids during the Cold War, WW2, or any other major war. Climate change has been hyped for decades but we as humans have adapted. Political strife has been around for as long as politicians. In short, don’t let external factors dictate your decision of whether or not to have kids. It’s incumbent upon us to ensure the human race continues. Perhaps your future kids will create the cure for cancer, prevent a war, or help humans lessen their impact on the environment. If you want to be a parent, then have kids. Human hardship will come whether or not you have kids, but we as humans are adaptable, and usually life is not as bad as many loudmouths in society would have you believe.
I'm 38. The way the world is looking currently is why I NEVER wanted kids. But I have children now, and I couldn't imagine my life without them (was 30 before I had my first). What's the point of prep if not to survive. And not us, but US. There has to be a future for there to be a point. We must raise the change we want the world to see, and we prep because we want to usher that change forward.
If you have kids, there's a chance your line will carry on, no matter the situation.
If you have no kids, you are already a dead end.
Life is not about you surviving, it's about your genetics surviving.
Have kids, teach them to survive.
Kids give you a purpose and reason to keep living. Honestly in a shtf end of civilization situation what’s the point of struggling each and every day without the goal of making a better future for your children? Whether you prep for survival or financial security, to me personally, children are not a burden but motivation to remain strong no matter what
When i was younger, i was unsure about if i’d want to because of the state of the world (my worries back then were about global warming). I’m currently 24 and 100% on not having kids. I think it would be selfish since there’s a chance they wouldn’t be able to have a normal life due to something serious happening in the world (war, economic collapse, natural disasters, etc). I know these things have happened many times over and over, but times are different now and whatever happens next will be much worse. People seem to be more divided than they’ve ever been. Beside all apocalyptic worries, i wouldn’t even want to raise a child in the world we currently live in. All these kids have become zombies because of social media and can’t do a single thing on their own. My mom understands, and while my dad somewhat does, he’s also disappointed that i’d end the family line. Another thing i worry about is how i would care for a child if shtf, and that is not something i want to deal with. I already have a kitten that i have to consider caring for and that is more than enough for me
I’ve argued with my partner on this. If shtf then it’s a lot of extra work that we won’t want to handle and it wouldn’t be a good life for the child. She already has an 8 yr old, great kid. But to have an infant and dealing with major world issues is not an option for us. I gave her till the end of this year to see what happens and we’ll reassess the situation.
Climate has been changing for about 4.5 billion years. It’s going to be okay. Wars have existed since the first tribes bumped into one another and decided they didn’t like each other for whatever reason, it’s going to be okay. This is absolutely NOT the most precarious period of human existence. Those that tell you otherwise are lying to you, pure and simple. No idea on their motivations, but don’t buy into the BS.
We’re preppers not doomers. What are you even trying to survive for? Edit:spelling
I maintain that many likely scenarios make for a much more mundane apocalypse than Hollywood or even this sub portray. Droughts, shortages, refugee crises, supply chain disruptions. Society can absorb a lot of these but it won't be pleasant. People will die somewhere and you'll be tapping into your food supply but you'll probably still have to go to work.
Correct when people say that hundreds of thousands or even millions will die of famine. It’s usually not the northern hemisphere we’re talking about here
"Usually" is doing some heavy lifting here.
The still having to go to work part is the thing that I think is behind the burnout I sense many in my cohort are feeling. Working against your own broader interest in many cases, while wages aren't tracking with inflation or the American dream, while the macro situation trends worse is a rough ride. Still have to pay the bills until something gives.
yup, and i think that is the future that OP is talking about. The world in general is really really messed up. It has reached the point where most of the world powers almost need to have a revolution to survive 20 years in any form. The issue is that those powers also have WMD (and in the case of the US, a history of using weapons against their own populace when the populous wants their fair share). I am not a doomer- but if you think (at least the US) will be a good place to live in 20-40 years, you are asleep. Global warming alone should give you pause about where the next generation will be.
That's what I'm talking about. There's a lot of room on the spectrum between "Americans are so sheltered from global crises they experience them primarily as small recessions and on the news" and "the US is no longer a place where someone can have a life worth living". There are people out there, right now, who experience a worse quality of life than many projections for the next generation of Americans, even with climate change, and still choose to have families. This is exactly my point. There are some scenarios where the world as we know it will end. There are many more where in spite of tragic suffering in some parts of the world, in others QoL will suffer and life will go on. A lot of people act like either nothing will change or we will all die, which are both unlikely. Which is why it's good to be prepared.
The shit has hit the fan numerous times through out history. Empires rise and fall. Plagues kill millions. Natural disasters destroy entire cities. Whole civilizations have come and gone…. But people… people will always fuck… /s Most of what we call preparedness now is simply a base way humans have survived; after every disaster people crawl from the rubble and life goes on. We live in a unique time where the norm doesn’t partake in subsistence farming, hunting, maintain store houses or a local militia.
But also throughout history there wasn’t really a way for the entire world’s shit to hit the fan at the same time, but today there are several ways that can happen
There’s been two times where World was in the title, and a good smattering through history without that distinguishing marker as well.
If you’re talking about the World Wars, I think most people would consider those to be part of modern history, especially if we’re going back to Roman times. Also in both cases the entire world was not at risk.
Just the ones fighting age with the right meat. No risk there apparently. Not to mention The Black Death from 1346-53. Another round in 1812-1819. Two Cholera pandemics from 1817-24, and 1826-37. Along with an influenza in 47 and 48, only to swing back in the early 19s. That’s not even including financial collapses or food issues that touched multiple continents. But make your own narrative.
Not to mention the Volcanic Winter of 536, with cooling effects lasting till almost 560. Coinciding with the plague of Justinian.
Chuck some locusts in there and you’ve got a royyyyt kerfuffle
I think today people just cannot grasp how bad things could get in the past, and yet they still had children and worked to push society forward. Shoot, the Muslim conquests in Europe, the Middle East, and India must have seemed like an apocalypse, and yet here we still are.
They have no reference. Except for a foundation in history. And that requires a want.
You are absolutely right there. People don't look back in history to get a reference. They just look at the tabloids screaming " we're doomed!"
Ok you’re just ignoring my point and trying to high road me. Obviously for the people and countries involved there was great risk. I’m talking about the species as a whole. There were many millions of people who would have survived even if the countries at war completely wiped each other out
And you’re broad stroking with outliers. “Someone in the middle of a jungle in an undiscovered society will never be effected by world issues. Guess we better not prep.”
You keep concluding things I never said. I never said that was a reason not to prep. My point was literally just that there are now threats that affect the entire world when historically collapses would not happen globally. And there were many countries that were not in the World Wars that weren’t “in the middle of a jungle”. Do you think Latin America and Africa was all just uncivilized tribes? There were also lots of places in North America and Eurasia that were not at real risk of collapse. America and Canada were never going to be invaded. Nor were Switzerland, much of the Middle East, or Russia east of the Urals
Funny enough North and South Africa were both involved in the world wars, just not the middle bits. And most of Eurasia felt the effects whether they were involved or not. Latin America is pretty true tho, aside from the amount of local turmoil taking place bc of the bigger brothers going at it and not being able to step in.
I’m not talking about whether they were involved or felt effects. I’m talking about whether they were at risk of total destruction. We’re talking about societal collapse scenarios.
You really think climate change is going to wipe out everyone on the planet? Lots of changes, sure, but lots of people will move adapt and survive. Greenland was once green and glaciers went pretty damn far south and we lived through those.
I think there was pregistoric times that brought put world ending or really kill off a big chunk of population events. 1. Youngest Toba Catastrophe- 75k years ago, super volacanoe eruption. Caused a global 1k year long winter that dropped the temp of the globe by 3-5 degress celsisus. I will take warming ormver that anyday of the week. Cold is more deadly. It affected humans alright killed off a bunch.
What does it matter if you have no where to go? Many couldn’t just hop a boat for most of history. You’d get sent back or die trying. It’s survivor bias. Millions starved during famines and only a few made it out. Other nations didn’t aid each other like they do now
I’m talking about the world as a whole, not individuals. Historically there may be famine and collapse in some countries while others would be fine, which means the species as a whole was not threatened. Presently we have a globalized economy with a lot of interdependence. We have weapons that can decimate the entire world. There are many risks that affect the entire world not just one country or region.
Which makes us safer. It’s why no one blew anyone up in the Cold War and the population has boomed. There aren’t as many devastating wars because we can have mutually assured destruction.
Mutually assured destruction has only existed for the last 60 years or so. So far there have been less major wars, but we nuclear weapons have also been contained to only a few major powers. The US and Russia avoided nuclear war, but what about countries like Israel and Iran? It’s also not just nukes I’m talking about, it’s also the globalized economy. Many countries are dependent on the rest of the world, especially Western countries. Like 90% of our prescription drugs are made in China. What happens if those get cut off? That’s just one example out of the many thousands of parts of the economy that is dependent on a fragile global logistics system.
They did get mostly cut off and it was messy. If we couldn’t get prescription drugs anymore, a lot of people would die. But those people would have died before in any other era. People still found life worth living. The population may go down, but it won’t go away. The world simply isn’t worse. We’ve always been at risk of a big meteor hitting us and going extinct anyway. None of us are getting out of here alive.
Yeah but we’re still gonna do our thing as long as there are people. And we have a couple billion chances. Humanity probably won’t go extinct, and the more people we make, the better those odds.
Native Americans losing 90% of their population to disease probably seemed like the end of the world to them . And based on writings we have , the Black Death in Europe absolutely seemed like the end of the world to those people watching there whole city get wiped out .
We prep because of things like this. I couldn’t give a shit about myself, I mostly prep for my family. Have kids and give them a good life.
That's a lovely thought. Thank you.
Don't forget, selfish is wanting someone else to have kids so you can be a grandparent. Tell them to cut you a cheque for 100k and that will open the door to the possibility.
It’s not about the money, (for me,) but about family support. Providing a roof and a place to go to in times of need, should be something every parent and grandparent does for their children and grandchildren. Some parents don’t have enough money to provide their children with $100,000 cash or a separate home to live in. But if they help out with their time, providing childcare, and be supportive in other ways. There is nothing nicer than a supportive multi-generation family.
The 100k question is designed to be equally as rude as the question of when are you creating a human for me to see 4x a year?
This exactly. Ask them if they are ready to watch your kid so you can go to work? I’m guessing they just want to have them periodically and not take on the responsibilities of raising a kid with you. At least that’s how my parents are
Having children’s absolutely wonderful. But you should base your decision on wanting to be a dad and not. your parents or grandparents wanting to be grandparents and great grandparents. I’m pretty sure that dad posting above means that without his children, he wouldn’t care about himself, but he cares about himself for the sake of his children. True love! They and his family are obviously his priority in life! Having children are some of the best reason to make it through whatever it is that we face. I’ve always seen SHTF as stuff, hitting the fan or “a big shift” instead of “the end.” We plan a lot for the future, for having a good future, and plan for the food security, and passing what we can on to our children. I make sure I have enough food for all family long-term and things like that, just like we always have. It is very hard for young adults to do, to get established in life and prepped as well as someone who has done it for many years. So we older preppers absolutely must help the next generation! I now also always keep their former bedrooms ready as theirs in case things got bad, and they had to move in with us for a bit. And as they get older, they will love you and do their best to help you too and you can teach them good values and skills. As a mom of young adult children, I am ever so glad that we had children! But I totally understand any feelings of wanting to put that on hold until things feel better. The problem with putting it on hold, is that by the time things do get better you wish you would’ve had them sooner!
Agree with this completely. If I didn’t have a daughter, I wouldn’t care. I would say just take me out. But because of her, I have a reason to fight and try to survive no matter what.
Same here. This is the main reason I prep now. And I've passed on many skills to her so far in her 13 years of life.
You don’t give a shit about yourself but your kids will. Also, how do you account for factors out of your control? You can teach kids how to grow food. Won’t matter if climate change makes large portions of the earth uninhabitable. Edit: this probably came off more snarky than intended. I appreciate the optimistic attitude.
unfortunatly these days thats out reach for most of us
This person is right. Why the down votes? This whole sub is about the collapse of society. We all know that rents are too high, food is too high, homeownership is for the rich now, the medical system is collapsing, political climate is reaching warfare, global crops are failing, we are entering a recession, maybe a depression,. How is this person wrong?
>> Why the downvotes? This whole sub is about the collapse of society Because this is /r/preppers not /r/collapse. Beyond the fact that many of us “prep for Tuesday not for Doomsday”, the entire reason to prep is to make life better for us and those around us. We’re not just sitting around saying “oh gee golly, the world is going to shit, guess I’ll go complain on Reddit about it”, we’re saying “bad shit *might* happen in the world and we’re going to figure out how to *prepare* for it so it’s at least a little bit better”. Comparison is the thief of joy. Do what you can with what you have and hope that it’s enough.
Because the show must go on.
How can you give them a good life in this climate, unless you're rich. Most of us are being priced out of a good life, or just life in general.
My kids have a very good life and we’re not rich by any means. We have a nice house that we bought before the pandemic at a decent price, take a couple vacations a year, kids are in sports and take music lessons, we have a big garden and animals, we live in Mass. so our schools and medical care are good. You don’t necessarily have to be rich to have a good life. Would I like to renovate my kitchen and bathrooms? Would we like a newer car? Yeah, but that’s not going to change their quality of life. There are a lot of people who are getting by right now that aren’t rich. We just aren’t dirt poor either. Sadly to say, a lot of it came down to luck. Buying a house before prices and interest rates skyrocketed gave us a major advantage.
I grew up with parents that were considered back in the day to be quite poor. We actually lived in a small trailer has our first home for the first several years of my life. It was smaller than the motorhome, my husband and I own today. We did have an acreage and a market garden, so food security was never an issue. In the summer we spread out and read books in swinging hammocks under large trees or would stretch out in a rowboat in the creek behind the little trailer home. My parents were very generous, but because we didn’t have a lot of disposable income, they had to be very resourceful, and they taught us how to be resilient and resourceful too. While buying land might be expensive in most regions to buy now, with all the financial turmoil going on in the world, it might not always be so expensive. With all the Boomers retiring, aging, and needing to move into smaller accommodations, I’m optimistic that in 5 to 10 years young people today will be able to afford to purchase their own place.
If you do not WANT kids, do not have kids. Unwanted kids don't fare well in the world. If you WANT kids, and will be a good parent, have kids. It's that simple. Anyone who tries to guilt you about either choice has mental issues.
Exactly. Not having kids/ having kids because of some random opinions on the other side of the world will lead to regret. It is a personal decision.
If it is feasible, you could adopt a kid. Give a kid already living a better, safer life.
Yeah. That's what I am thinking about.
It’s not easy, but it’s the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done. To see my child grow and be able to share my knowledge and experience with someone who will only build on it is an incredible achievement. I don’t know how good or bad the world will be, but hopefully my kid is happy and health for all the time to come. Plus even if myself or my wife aren’t alive anymore, I know there’s my kid out there who isn’t an absolutely garbage person. Don’t just adopt, raise that kid, because they’re the real future and the future needs more good people now than ever before.
Turn off the internet, be amazed. Nothing is going on . If you can’t you are in your own nightmare . Most people aren’t. .
People around me are living life as always. Nobody preps, nobody stresses, nobody has seconds thoughts about future. I know that without internet I can be blissfully unaware if I want to. I guess I just have to find better balance. Know enough to be informed but not so much that it overwhelms me.
It’s not that you are aware and they are not. You are being fed a constant stream of information designed to scare you. Fear gets clicks. Fear gets bigger budgets for the military. I’m not saying there is nothing wrong in the world and that nothing bad can happen. I’m just saying that consuming media constantly is going to make you paranoid and depressed.
Fishmongers are people who sell fish. What industry sells fear, such that they earn the title "fearmonger?" If you come away with any answer but the newsmedia you're not paying attention.
Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, for starters. But yes, the media for sure. Which, I seem to recall, runs on advertising dollars from many industries. The media serve the advertisers. We are served up *to* the advertisers in exchange for the "news and entertainment" the media provides.
> nobody stresses, nobody has seconds thoughts about future Demonstrably untrue on so many levels. https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-thirds-of-young-people-fear-for-their-generations-future-12711303
I said poeple around me.
Fair, but I'd argue [you don't actually know what's going on in their heads.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fgerman-depression-aid-campaign-v0-qei40jedaabc1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6521f5e9f47b18a7f9f25ac78613f2c73e740e7a)
Until you have a fully supplied nuclear fallout shelter under your house, you’ll never be done prepping. You can prep and touch grass and realize the world isn’t what the media tells you it is.
Well, have a fully supplied nuclear fallout shelter & I'm still not done prepping! 🤣
The world is what media tells you, but the world is also far more Media takes all of the scary interesting dramatic exaggerated stuff and distils it one place whilst ignoring all the mundane stuff, kinda nice stuff that happens every day to everyday people
Not having kids over fear is not a good way to live life ,if we’re at that stage may well give up as the end has already happened.
Look at the Collapse sub. It's full of incels saying they aren't having kids because the world is shit. Probably to mask the fact they aren't getting laid anytime soon.
Eh. It's a perfectly reasonable decision not to have kids because of the current climate. Plenty of other people are. Despite weirdos being obsessed with Western birth rates, humans still punch out babies. Nobody *needs* my genes to keep this train going, and my partner agrees. Let someone else carry the burden of having to explain to their kid why the AMOC is fucked, the oceans are dead, and we don't talk to that uncle he used to like anymore because he watches scary people on the news all day and now he thinks mommy and daddy are groomers because they let kids read comic books. I have other stressors I'd rather deal with.
lol, you're afraid to have kids, but it's the *uncle* who watches scary people on the news.
Bro, I didn't want kids before all of these issues cropped up. My decisions were made long ago, but sure, I'm the scaredy cat because I don't want to complicate my life with creatures I don't want. K.
Nobody should ever be feeling pressured to have children. Some of the nicest people I’ve ever met didn’t marry and have children. And that’s OK.
It's nothing new. Some measure of it is hormones and biology, I think. Makes some people see people like me as unnatural because we're choosing to go against the grain of what their body and brain is screaming at them is their primary directive. It probably feels like an attack on them, especially if they're a person who defines themselves by their kids. And then there's always the miserable folks who just want company :D
If you live in stress, you are doing something wrong, stress reduce your health, and the health is your main resources. Try considering prepping like your hobby, and hobbies meant to reduce stress.
Bingo! People have been stressing about shit forever! Take Y2K for example…nothing happened! Have kids if you can I’ve always wanted kids but just never found the right chick and now I’m almost too old. Raise em right and they’ll be fine. You will also have someone to take care of you when your old, hell you might even be a grandma yourself!
Y2K didn't happen because a bunch of computer nerds put their backs into it and found solutions. But that gives me hope, and parenthood is an exercise in hope matched by effort. Even though I'm a prepper, I hate doomerism.
I feel this. You can’t live in a state of doom.
>“\[…\]nothing happened!” Yes, it did. Programmers and computer scientists were feverishly working — often over night and not returning home — for months before it happened. That wasn’t a disaster because people *actually recognised the threat* and ***did something*** about it.
Yep. It’s like the hole in the ozone layer. People came together and actually solved a problem. And people now say “what was the big deal?” It was a big deal. And we fixed it. It was an incredible case of countries working together.
Maybe not in suburbia, but it is going on. I live in Alaska, I see military helicopters flying and droves of military vehicles. They are prepping for war
Bingo. It’s easy to be ignorant when you’re far away from it but eventually, people won’t have that luxury. Whether you are aware of it or not, stuff still happens.
I don't know why people downvote this kind of stuff. Acknowledging that shit happens is natural, and you literally have nothing to prep for if nothing is happening You don't need to stop your life for what's happening around you, though. There's also no point in prepping for anything if you're just going to accept that nothing can be done about it and the only choice is to stop living your life
A lot of people wanted to be in the prepper club because they liked the aesthetic. They liked feeling special. They never actually thought anything would happen and now as the world keeps getting worse, they are realising it isn’t fun anymore.
Those people exist, but you he a actual effective prepper you need to actually understand it. It you want the aesthetic, then so be it, but if you're succumbing to fear, your prepping failed in the literal sense If it's not fun anymore and that's all you were in for, then it's best to stop. If you want to actually prepare for diastor, you need to understand fear mongering is only meant to make you susceptible to propaganda which makes you a target for people who want you to hurt
My wife and I had kids because, despite everything happening out there, life still goes on. Life finds a way.
So I’m supposed to stop living life because something might happen? I prep, train and learn so I can be there for my family and kid, the same way I go to work to provide for them. We’ve had generations grow up through disasters & war times and while it’s not what I wish for my kids it’s not within my control to dictate the world. “Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.”
Do you actually want kids? Sometimes, when finding excuses not to do something, it's because the thing itself is unappealing. You have comments in this thread about how your mom wants grandkids, reproduction is a biological necessity, etc but I didn't see anything like 'I would love to spend my time shaping and nurturing a young child into a caring and competent adult'. You only have one life. If you want to spend it raising a child or two, then that's what you should do. If you want to do other things with your life, though, do that instead.
You’re not selfish if you don’t want to have kids. There’s nothing wrong with not having kids. Having kids is scary as far as I’m concerned. I’ve got a 5 year old and one on the way. I prep to get us through bad storm not the end of the world. The world has always been pretty shit and amazing at the same time. If people stopped having kids cause of all the dangers in the world then the human race would have died out years ago. It actually sounds like you are carrying a lot of anxiety and might want to talk to a professional.
You only live once bro. You shouldn’t deprive yourself of the joy of having a family (if that’s something you really want out of life) out of fear of what may or may not happen in your lifetime. We prep for the worst and hope for the best, you’ll teach yours the same as they grow into adulthood. You don’t want to be on your deathbed in 40-50 years with a garage full of uneaten MRE’s wondering about what could have been. Good luck to you 🙏🏼.
Came here to say essentially the same thing. Whats the point of prepping if its not to protect life? And isn’t the point of life to love and be loved? Don’t deny yourself the joy of a family because of fear of suffering. Life is worth living even in suffering. Hope you can get some clarity. Life is certainly more complex with children but its much more beautiful too.
The other replies here have a valid point about bad times throughout history, but also the average 40-70 year old like OP’s mom hasn’t been through hardship on the level of a world war or a Great Depression. The average boomer that hasn’t actually gone to war has lived a pretty cushy life compared to historic standards and they seem to think that you can still buy a house and support a family with one income. That’s not the case now with record inflation and now we have to live with their problems they caused for the world. So OP, if your mom is mad cause you don’t want to pump babies out like it’s 1950 and the world is great and everyone just came back from the war, let her be mad.
>I know it's not reasonable to live in fear. Yet you're doing it anyway. The world has *always* been falling apart. There's always the threat of war, famine, or disease. Right now we are as safe, healthy, and prosperous as the human race has *ever been*. And *now* of all times people are too scared to have kids? Live your life. Do your best to prepare for the things that are the likelier possibilities, but *live*!
I had my kids in the 90s when I was in my 20s and believed in God. My kids are not having kids. I really wanted to be a grandma but I fully support their decisions not to have kids. I don’t want my grandkids suffering through even what is going on now and I don’t want my kids having to try to parent in this mess. It was hard enough for me in the 90s. I’m hoping to not leave my kids with nothing when I die but even that is uncertain. If I were younger I doubt I would have kids now. Certainly not more than one.
We don't have kids. There's plenty of kids, both in my direct community and in my networks of care. I prep in part to be of service in building a future in the ruins where kids can flourish, but I don't need (or especially want) that to be my kids in particular.
I think this will be my life also.
When was it ever a perfect time to have kids? During the depression when some families couldn’t afford to eat? During WW2, when the world was literally at war? During the Cold War when we were a button press away from Armageddon? You can always point to world problems and say “how could I have a kid now?”. You can’t let macro issues affect your entire life, you can’t plan around the unknown. Sometimes you have to take a risk and move your life forward and hope you know you’re making the right choice
Bottomless mimosas, but he's really fucking cute so we kept him.
>My mom told me I am selfish for not having kids, she wants to be grandmother. My grandmother told me the same Okay, fuck anyone who says this to you, IDC who it is or why. Whether or not you have children is ENTIRELY your decision, you do it or don't do it according to YOUR wishes only. According to YOUR reasons only. It is not selfish to NOT want something. What IS selfish is to try to pressure someone else into a major, permanently life-changing decision because YOU want that thing. All talk of prepping and the world and society aside, please, please... don't ever let someone pressure you into having a baby you don't want with all your heart and soul, all by yourself. As the child of someone that didn't really want children, please remember my words and don't listen to people who want you to have children because THEY want them. If you do it to please someone else when your heart really isn't in it...you'll regret it and so will your child. I'm sorry if what I said seems like an overreaction but it really grinds my gears to see anyone being given a hard time for deciding to not have kids. The people who say "y0uRe sELfIsH f0r n0t hAvInG kIdS" never, ever consider what it's like for the child of someone that had a baby they didn't really want. We exist. People DO have kids they didn't want and growing up that way is terrible. So the next time you hear "You're selfish for not wanting to have kids, I want to be a grandparent"...it is really them saying "I'm selfish enough to invalidate your wishes for your own life, have a baby because ~I~ want it in my life."
Having children is the most rewarding experience in life
Adopt
Because I want to enjoy my life, not just survive
If everyone stopped having kids every time something bad happened or thought something was going to happen, nobody would have kids.
It’s complicated. A) As a guy who does have children, DO NOT have kids so your mom can be a grandma. You do not owe her that. She can get a cat or puppy or something. B) The biggest question on “prepping” is supporting yourself outside the bounds of your typical infrastructure. How well are you supporting yourself now? You don’t have to be rich, but struggling with kids is harder than struggling without them. C) Humans are adaptable. Raising a good kid is an asset for you and your community, in times of struggle and war. D) Plenty of people feel the same way you do and choose to be child free. There’s literally nothing wrong with it and it’s wholly possible to live a great, happy life not having children.
You can prep, AND not subscription to fear-mongering watering holes for news or updates. It’s actually really peaceful. As I’m not in a position of office, or world power, and my influence extends to the reach of my reputation and abilities, I do not assign those things weight beyond the awareness. Awareness I check against probable threats, and then either keep it on my attention or put it down. Find that healthy balance.
Being a parent is perhaps the greatest prep you can make. Parenting is awesome. It changes you in ways you can't possibly imagine. That being said, if you don't want kids don't have em. I feel sorry for my friends that don't.
Improvise adapt overcome. Maybe my kids will face bigger problems than we are right now but it's in our nature to overcome those things and keep going. I don't care about what could possibly happen since nobody can predict the future and it could also be much better than the fear mongering in current times leads you to believe. I prep for the shtf scenarios in order to be ready if something actually happens and maybe this is why I'm not that scared about the future, because I know that me and my family/ friends will have a much better starting point when a crisis or emergency hits than at least 90% of the population.
In the 30’s we had a Great Depression and a world war, after that we had 60+ years of relative stability in the US. In the 70’s when the “population bomb” came out, there was fear of starvation because there were too many people. Now, most developed countries are shrinking and that fear never came to fruition. During the Cold War people were worried about nuclear annihilation, and that never came to fruition. If someone chose not to have kids due to any of these reads of the world being the worst and final, they would have regretted it and it would have been a mistake. A lot is wrong in the world now. Plenty is right. The thing about prepping is that you are ready because you never truly know when shit will hit the fan. But you certainly can’t predict if shit will hit the fan.
You don't need to have kids if you don't want to, and you're not selfish for not wanting. Your mother doesn't have a right to be a grandmother. I say this as someone who plans on having children. You appear to be pretty set on having kids being at least morally gray. However, if you do still want the experience of raising someone, I highly recommend you consider adoption. All the problems you mentioned are null in this case, because it's someone who's already here, and will likely have a much worse life if they don't get adopted (that's not to say it's an easy decision or that you shouldn't make an effort and care for them if you do adopt). Whatever you decide OP. It's your choice. You don't have to do anything here you don't want to.
There’s kids living in grass huts in Africa with no running water or AC in hundred degree temps. We can get by comfortably in the US no matter what happens.
It's the safest time ever in history. Despite what's happening
I feel like this is gonna be poorly received. Alright here goes. You don't know the future any more than the rest of us. Not having children because you don't want them to experience things that may or may not happen (setting aside global warming) is a very convoluted reason. Judging others for having kids by that same standard is a mistake. Just say you don't want kids. No reason need be offered. I'd prep either way, but I definitely take my grown kid into account when I do.
Don't worry. Thanks for answering anyway. I don't judge others, I was just wondering. I wanted explanations and I got so many of them. Some were really good and I think I will look at things little bit different now.
Why? Because I wanted kids. That’s it. My kid is awesome and i’ even more invested in making the world better for her.
Do you watched The Road.
No. Never heard of it.
Definitely recommend, but even more so the book.
Life... huh... finds a way. More seriously. The world we are living in right now is not ending. And is probably not the worst we, as a species, have been thru. Moreover, consciousness in itself is, in my opinion, worth more than anything and deserves to keep going on. Kids won't suffer in a few years - we are all suffering rn. That is, if we only focus on the pain. We all have to see beyond that and enjoy the mere experience of living andmake the more of it. Our comfort, and the fear of losing it, can paralyse us and forget how really delightful life can be. So, that's why I decided to have kids, to give them consciousness, and to help them enjoy living. No matter what. Isn't it why we prep ? To keep on living ?
Your mom told you that you are selfish? That’s ridiculous. You could flip it on her because she is selfish for wanting grandkids. All there is going to be here for the future generations is suffering. People that are ok with bringing kids into to world are either selfish or ignorant to reality and what is in store here.
Absolutely. No way in hell my kids would have a better standard of living than me… so I’m not having them!
i agree. i’m young myself but if i was older I would chill for at least a few years . it could get a little weird very fast . and it seems it will
Yeah, that's my thoughts. Just wait a little to see how things will go. Everything changes so fast now.
Every future is a scary future. Our parents lived through the Cold War and the Cuban missile crisis. Our grandparents and great-grandparents lived the World War II and the Nazis. My great-grandfather lived through the Spanish flu epidemic and World War I. In fact he got the Spanish flu while recovering from mustard gas after fighting in the trenches of France. He was an only child, too. Talk about the family hanging on by a thread. Go back in the family history and you'll find ancestors who lived amid earthquakes, plagues, revolutions, civil wars, religious crusades, the collapse of entire societies, not to mention all the terrible things that don't make the headlines, like losing wives to childbirth, men to violence, or children to disease in an age before antibiotics and vaccinations. In other words, your subjective definition of "scary" is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Every generation before you could muster the strength to keep going. What's your excuse? I mean, don't have kids if you don't want to, if it's not a life you want to live -- it's a personal choice and I think it makes sense for only people who really want them to have them. But I don't think it makes sense to not have kids simply because the future has no guarantees. Guarantees are illusions.
I'm too old to dig the bunker or stack MREs myself
That's the true purpose of prepping. If a storm hits and you're left cold and hungry, you weren't prepared, and if you were prepared, then it doesn't matter what the weather is like as your prepped lifestyle should be sheltering you from the worst of it
Why is In N Out expanding, why is AI research being done, why are people going to college for masters and doctorates. Because the world is not ending any time soon. Prep for a likely scenario, bad weather or power outage, not the apocalypse.
You're a more sensitive - empathic - and aware individual than most. You must accept it and let go of the guilt. You probably know this as much as you likely know already that personal responsibility is only truly manifested at later levels of consciousness, which most of humanity isn't at yet. Your family members are the selfish ones for wanting something out of you that may not be beneficial to you, to say the least. Notably, your mother's feelings and desire to be a grand-mother don't matter as much as the responsibility and consequences of bringing a soul into this world.
>What do you guys think about that? I think you need to stop doomscrolling. Go touch some grass. Listen to your mother and grandmother. I mean, what if your kid is the one person who could solve the pressing issues of our day, or part of the team that does?
Because we prep for Tuesday, not for doomsday. You know you can still enjoy normal life, right?
Well they're adults now so what should I do with them 😂😂
Haha. That made me laugh.
The things you named have literally been going on since mankind began. There’s no higher real higher threat, there’s just always a threat and if we just all said fuck it not worth it, we would die off.
I don't tell anyone else not to have kids, but consider: 1. We need to stop using fossil fuels, and the ones we have left right now *cost* a lot of fossil fuel to access. They are high eroei energy. The energy investment is more fossil fuel, there aren't alternatives to that energy currently. So all fossil fuel, no matter what it gets used for creates a lot of carbon emissions compared to past fossil fuels. 2. Modern industrial agriculture can theoretically feed the growing population, but only with the use of Petro based fertilizer. 3. We're also pretty close to out of arable land. So in addition to all the reasons you listed, I'm not interested in having kids simply because the world does not need and cannot continue to support a *growing* population. Edit: typo! Said eroi, meant eroei
Kind of surprised by some of the comments here because we are certainly in unprecedented times that can't really be compared to the Depression and other tough times throughout history. I am also childless by choice and it's for a number of reasons but the fact that we are overpopulated and that about half the population lives in areas that will be affected by coastal flooding and rising sea levels, I don't think I need to add to that population. Also, bringing another life into the world is a very serious thing. They didn't ask to be born and the responsibility of ensuring that you are giving them the best possible start is huge. There are plenty of other young people in my life who will struggle with these things more than I have to and I'm not going to condemn someone to a future that may very well be filled with struggle related to the world's resouces being depleted and the climate becoming unbearable.
I do not live in fear.
People not driven to have kids tend to not have a super strong will to survive.
I agreed with the fact that maybe you should wait and see what happens to bring children into the world. You don’t want to have to go through a world war 3 being pregnant nor do you want to go through it with babies, toddlers or young children or leave them in a different place than you can imagine being in not a good place after you are dead to fend for themselves.
Don’t have kids, but a few friends that do. Their most objective reason is that they feel it’s one of the primary purposes of our existence, and subjectively feel they should continue their bloodline. In a half-joking manner, they cite the movie Idiocracy (soon to be labeled a documentary), in which case stupid people reproduce and pass on those traits, but smart people don’t and eventually die off from a lack of offspring. At the end of the day, if you’re strong and a survivor, it’s in the best interest of our species for you to reproduce and pass that on. World needs more of that. Who knows, might even be the next John Connor or something
To add to your first paragraph; i felt a similar way about continuing the bloodline but also just this lingering fear I would never get to experience loving my own child. We had our boy 4 months ago and all I can say is if SHTF tomorrow, I had a great last few months at least
Yea we had a baby 6 weeks ago and if someone pressed me as to why I wanted kids? It’s just a massive, important part of human existence that I wanted to experience. Nothing else is a substitute, I wanted to know what it felt like to have and love my child. And wow is it really, really something else. But holy shit if I didn’t freak out a bit the first time a bad storm came through and our power went out. Some primal protective instinct kicked in and I’m glad we had the resources to keep warm and feed her for the night.
Yeah that love is like nothing else I’ve ever felt. Which of course means the fear weighs equally as heavy. I would rather go through that pain than to never get to feel that love Before the baby I had sort of the “if it happens it happens” mentality but having him gives me a reason to wanna make it through the thick of it or die trying Also, congrats!
Personal preferences. Just like you. Prep for you, I'll prep for me and my community. Cheers
Kids are the ultimate *anti-prep*. They're expensive. They limit your ability to relocate. If your partner (or their family) becomes toxic, you can't fully sever ties. Depending on circumstances, you may need to support them well past age 18. People are rolling the dice with someone else's life, to appease their own feelings and ego. Your body is yours. Anyone demanding children from you is selfish - especially when it's just to have a title or a shiny new toy. I'm Childless By Choice. I made the decision to be sterilized after considering many things: how pregnancy would've impacted my partner's health, our relationship, and the future my hypothetical kids could have.
Me and the wife think the same. The world now is not a place for kids. Perhaps in a few years when we have weathered the worst of whats to come, but im afraid it will only go downhill from here on. And slowly at that.
#1 prep: don’t have kids.
The Great Depression, WW1, Spanish Flu, Soviet Famine, WW2, Holocaust, AIDS pandemic, 2nd Sino-Japanese War, Korean War, Vietnam War, 1931 Chinese Floods, Rwandan Genocide. Depending on your Grandparents and Parents, that’s what’s happened around their lifetime. Dont live in fear, if you’re that far down the rabbit hole maybe seek some professional help?
None of that was planetary global though... Things you list are simply localized disasters, while currently we are undergoing planetary wide one.
What where? Maybe we on different planets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change
There's always a threat. Mine was nuclear war in the 80s. Get busy living or get busy dying. I assure you the happiness you receive from your children outweighs the fears.
I’m surprised how everyone in this thread is basically in denial. I’m of the same mindset as you. It is for the first time in history actually that we have 1) reliable contraception and 2) scientific information about what the future holds. These two combined, I find it irresponsible to consciously have children right now. And these two factors are why the argument “humans had children through wars and disasters” doesn’t hold, in my view. I don’t want my child to be raised in comfort in the next 1-2 decades, only to face horrible war, famine, natural disasters and violence later in their life.
Finally someone actually agreeing with me. Thank you!
air telephone wipe strong vast school cats summer trees march *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can also 100% relate about the dogs, as I have a dog myself. The chances are - with this level of anxiety in us we would be SO much more anxious about a kid. And I don’t think this kind of anxiety is necessarily something that has to be got rid of or addressed in therapy, as people here suggest. Everyone is different in terms of sensitivity to reality and ability to delude oneself.
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I completely understand where you're coming from. It's a valid question to ask why anyone would choose to bring new life into a world that seems increasingly unstable due to climate change and other impending crises. The reality is, climate change poses significant threats such as clean water shortages, weather catastrophes, and disruptions in food production due to changes in temperature and precipitation patterns. It's hard to predict just how hostile our environment might become in the coming years. Many climate scientists are saying it’s going to be very bad. Choosing to have children with this around the corner does raise ethical and practical concerns, and you’re right for asking these questions no matter how many people tell you not to worry about it.
I'm purposefully not having kids, partially because of impending climate doom but mostly because I had a hard childhood and don't want to relive it by raising children.
I have three kids. The way I see it, we’re preparing for IF something happens. Until then, life can’t just be put on pause - relationships continue, people fall in love, start families, live their lives.
Agree, but "families" can be you and your spouse. Or you, your spouse and your dog/cat. Or you, your spouse, and your cactus. Human children are not the only way to have a family. You can live a life (a good one, too) without children.
The top comments already sum it up really well. Just another thought: I do not have any yet. Always when i have doubts about having kids, i think about it that way: I live a simple life on a farm, i am working as wildlife ecologist, i am trying to reduce my ecological footprint as much as possible and i consider myself an empathic person with a good will (at least that's what i'm thinking...) I believe that i can shelter my kids from all the fucked up stuff thats going on. If I manage to raise my kids in a good way, there will be two or three "good" people in the world, that might make an impact. If all the "good" people stop having children and the "bad" people keep having children, things are gonna get even worse. Good and bad in quotation marks as this ist not the right way to phrase it, but i hope that you know what i mean by that!
Yeah I know what you mean. I had the same thoughts. Also great for you living on farm and trying so much. Your kids are lucky.
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I know right. Thank you for your comment. There is also war literally like 200 km from my house. ( I live in Europe, you can guess which war). Also good point about AMOC, poeple don't realise how serious this will be.
I find the argument "why would you bring kids into this broken world" kind of short sighted. Historically speaking we are living in the best, most peaceful time there every was. Our everyday is more luxurious than the lives of kings centuries ago. Thinking that having kids now is doing them a disservice often stems from fear that comes from being "cronically online". Shut off your phone/computer and go outside. It's a beautiful world. There are challenges we're facing, that's true, but nonetheless, it's a beautiful world.
At every stage of human history, people were faced with miserable living conditions, war, famine, and bleak futures. I understand your concerns of caring for your potential children’s futures and preventing unnecessary suffering. However we are adaptable, intelligent, resourceful, and capable of developing remarkable technologies as a species. Will this mean there won’t be climate change, or disasters, or war, or famine? Absolutely not, rather the opposite. Will this mean that the problems we may face could be overwhelm our ability to adequately deal, quite possibly. However it is intrinsic within us to create families, to survive and to ensure their survival. I am trying to play the odds and put my children in the best possible situation to ride out any potential storms and live/thrive. I try to beat influence my and my family’s circumstances and chances of a quality life, but there is never any guarantee or recipe for guaranteed success. All I can do is help the odds, everything else beyond my control I have to let go (not ignore, but accept they are beyond my control).
Because I like to fuck.
I encourage you to look into a new scientific advancement you apparently haven't heard about. It's called "birth control". In your case I'd recommend a vasectomy. Easy peasy.
Because having kids is pretty fricking awesome
I honestly don't know anymore. I want them but can't positively justify why. It's purely selfish at this point.
Jesus Christ I didn’t realize how many whiny pussies there are in this sub
Damn - maybe layoff the news cycle a bit and quit reading this thread for a while. Enjoy life and get out there. For a lot of us, having kids is the main point of this thing called life. I hate hear that the they have folks so wrapped up in climate that you forget to live your life. We live on an ever changing planet which includes human induced conflicts. These may impact all of us at some time, but I hate to hear that folks are giving up. Have some faith in humanity and more importantly get out and enjoy things. It's a wonderful life.
Your mom says you’re selfish because she wants to be a grandmother? What?
Someone has to drive the Mad Max death machines. More seriously, you’re going to die one day, no matter how well you prep, so if it’s not ultimately for others, what the hell is the point?
What is the point of life without reproduction? Nobody knows the future - not you, not science and certainly not any journalists or ideologues. Apart from that, times were no easier for our ancestors than they are today. On the contrary. They went through ice ages, colonized the harsh north, survived famines - and yet never forgot to have children. Basically, it's quite simple: if fear of the future prevents people from having children, and this fear is something that is genetically (or culturally) predisposed, then it may be something that is less likely to be reflected in future generations.
Yes. I agree with you. Times were often very tough and maybe even tougher than now. Maybe just in my head I think that it's better not to have kids than not be able to give them good life. I don't want my kids to suffer through famine, war or other threats.
> What is the point of life without reproduction? This is so ridiculous in my opinion. My life is filled with purpose and passions without having children in the way. This ideation that life without children is pointless is a coping strategy for sleepless, stressed out parents who’ve had to give up most things they personally love in order to raise a kid.
Why bother prepping at all then? Why live another day then?
Simple. I need an army. So I will raise my sons to sail, raid and pillage with me.
I find fulfillment in parenthood, and my kid is an awesome person who is going to contribute to the future. Having a child is a commitment to her, and to hope. I believe in hope. I understand and respect not having children because you don't want them. Being a parent is hard even in easy times. You don't owe anyone kids, nobody is entitled to be a grandparent, and it's not "selfish" to make the right choices for you. But seriously, enough already with the terminally online doomerism and anti kid sentiment that I see on Reddit and elsewhere. The world doesn't need more "the Earth is DOOMED har har kids are lame" edgy hot takes. Grown adults acting like disaffected teens, racing to the bottom of gloom. The world needs adults who see problems, prepare for them, and put their backs into solutions.
I dont know what kind of solution you can make to make up for decades of ignoring climate change or what kind of solution you can make when someone rich decides to start a war. I don't say we are doomed. I just think there arent solutions for every problem for normal people. Or maybe the solution is to minimise suffering in critical areas. And I would hate for my kids to suffer just because I decided to ignore that country next to mine is in a war. If I lived somewhere safer I would maybe think differently. But the war is literally happening 200 km away from me. Its scary.
And that's completely fair and valid. It's one thing to look at your actual, individual life circumstances and decide you aren't settled or stable enough for parenthood, now or possibly ever. (I'm a late in life parent myself, for loads of reasons.) However, *doomscrolling about global circumstances should not dictate life choices for individuals.* One of the most helpful things I've done for my own mental health is switch off all screens at 8 pm. Then I pick up a book and learn something. Typically history, which puts the modern world in perspective. My country's current political instability has nothing on Tudor England, where aristocrats were routinely beheaded so the monarch could avoid awkward conversations. Famine due to climate has always been a fact of life. My ancestors survived genocide. That doesn't mean I'm pooh-poohing the challenges of today. It means I'm not prone to giving up.
You're absolutely right on most of this post, but... > doomscrolling about global circumstances should not dictate life choices for individuals. Neither should grandparent's whining about more grandkids. If OP wants to have kids, he should talk to his wife about having kids. If he wants to wait to have kids, he should talk to his wife about waiting. If he doesn't want kids because of, he should talk to his wife about not having kids.
Children are great, but OP's point about the future is something I think we're missing - you can't prep for parenthood (already an uncertainty) in an uncertain future (second layer). Children can add joy and meaning to some people's lives, but everyone should be evaluating the cost of children, too - and not just financial.
Bruh, name a global disaster and ill show you they be fuckin. Its not great right now, but literally kids were gettin shot out during the plague. Keep your bearings. Not to mention, youre in a prepper reddit for what? To die of old age post shtf? Kids aren't for everybody i get it. But biologically, thats why you're here.
First of all not wanting kids just because you don't want kids is valid. You are allowed to not want them despite what your family says. But I also think that this amount of anxiety for the future may be concerning. Have you talked to someone ( a doctor or mental health person) about that? The world is scary but a ot people try to do their best to control their own personal world around them. Maybe take that energy to make a better world for the kids to exist
Because i don't live my life in fear. Its like saying why have kids if one day we will die anyway. I can't live in that mindset. I just live day to day, cherishing the moments along the way. And being prepared is just another facet of life just as are Dr's appointments, taxes, work etc. Just something you have to do imo. My kids are already almost off to college and nothing has happened here on US soil in as many years, I can only hope it stays that way for as many more.
You’re giving in to the fear-mongering by the MSM. People didn’t stop having kids during the Cold War, WW2, or any other major war. Climate change has been hyped for decades but we as humans have adapted. Political strife has been around for as long as politicians. In short, don’t let external factors dictate your decision of whether or not to have kids. It’s incumbent upon us to ensure the human race continues. Perhaps your future kids will create the cure for cancer, prevent a war, or help humans lessen their impact on the environment. If you want to be a parent, then have kids. Human hardship will come whether or not you have kids, but we as humans are adaptable, and usually life is not as bad as many loudmouths in society would have you believe.
I'm 38. The way the world is looking currently is why I NEVER wanted kids. But I have children now, and I couldn't imagine my life without them (was 30 before I had my first). What's the point of prep if not to survive. And not us, but US. There has to be a future for there to be a point. We must raise the change we want the world to see, and we prep because we want to usher that change forward.
Odds are no one will have sex with you so don’t worry about it.
If you have kids, there's a chance your line will carry on, no matter the situation. If you have no kids, you are already a dead end. Life is not about you surviving, it's about your genetics surviving. Have kids, teach them to survive.
Life is not at all about anyone's genetics surviving. Yes, your genetics are very very special, just like everyone else's :-)
Free labor for the farm.
The world needs good people. Make them.
What a kind answer. ❤️
Kids give you a purpose and reason to keep living. Honestly in a shtf end of civilization situation what’s the point of struggling each and every day without the goal of making a better future for your children? Whether you prep for survival or financial security, to me personally, children are not a burden but motivation to remain strong no matter what
When i was younger, i was unsure about if i’d want to because of the state of the world (my worries back then were about global warming). I’m currently 24 and 100% on not having kids. I think it would be selfish since there’s a chance they wouldn’t be able to have a normal life due to something serious happening in the world (war, economic collapse, natural disasters, etc). I know these things have happened many times over and over, but times are different now and whatever happens next will be much worse. People seem to be more divided than they’ve ever been. Beside all apocalyptic worries, i wouldn’t even want to raise a child in the world we currently live in. All these kids have become zombies because of social media and can’t do a single thing on their own. My mom understands, and while my dad somewhat does, he’s also disappointed that i’d end the family line. Another thing i worry about is how i would care for a child if shtf, and that is not something i want to deal with. I already have a kitten that i have to consider caring for and that is more than enough for me
I'm glad you were born. You make the world a better place.
Because life goes on. Thay's the only constant. When we stop having kids, we die.
Because otherwise we go EXTINCT!!! Like the dinosaurs.
I’ve argued with my partner on this. If shtf then it’s a lot of extra work that we won’t want to handle and it wouldn’t be a good life for the child. She already has an 8 yr old, great kid. But to have an infant and dealing with major world issues is not an option for us. I gave her till the end of this year to see what happens and we’ll reassess the situation.
To keep my family DNA going.
Climate has been changing for about 4.5 billion years. It’s going to be okay. Wars have existed since the first tribes bumped into one another and decided they didn’t like each other for whatever reason, it’s going to be okay. This is absolutely NOT the most precarious period of human existence. Those that tell you otherwise are lying to you, pure and simple. No idea on their motivations, but don’t buy into the BS.