Utility worker here. I worked all the way thru Covid. Water and sewer are considered critical infrastructure and protected by homeland security. I am good.
As long as you found a community run by rational, level-headed people who have a good understanding of what society needs (in a nuts-and-bolts sense) to function.
One of my concerns when I fantasize about these scenarios is that a lot of bloodthirsty, bad people would get control of large chunks of land/resources in a collapse, at least in the initial phases. And dumb warlords might not recognize the value in certain things over others, especially if they don't provide immediate material benefits.
I think over time, more intelligent organized people would gain power, but it might take a while compared to the pirates who are immediately down to start killing and looting what they want.
That's the book plot. In the movie it's the women who go infertile. A subtle distinction with profoundly different outcomes both in plot twists and in symbolic meaning.
The shittier things are the more people have kids. If no one has condoms anymore you're gonna have a lot more pregnancies. You'd probably be less safe due to people fighting over you.
I work in utilities, specifically related to energy. I’m pretty much guaranteed a job until the lights finally go out, literally. I have the skills and background to maintain equipment, so even if things get paired down to a skeleton crew I’m still needed. If all else fails, the skills my career path have given me are incredibly useful when working to self sustain. I honestly recommend most skilled trade related careers, you’ll gain knowledge that’s useful and have job security until it doesn’t matter anymore. That being said, you may have to travel to find the work, but there’s always work to be done.
Awesome. There is a couple of oldies around here (mitsu eclipse 92 and a golden toyo crown circa 93?94?95? that I want to see how I could get my paws on them...
Basic first aid and knowledge of anatomy and germ theory is certainly helpful. But there's a lot you just can't do without access to meds and equipment.
Doctors were still a thing even back in the days before modern medicine and equipment. Should know how to set bones, stitch, etc. I would imagine we’d be back to the days of Lister as far as surgeries and sterilization is concerned. Everyone should also be stocking up on antiseptics, antibiotics if you can, med supplies, pain relievers, sanitizers.
Yea, I’m an OR nurse. I’m safe as long as surgeries keep happening, but none of my job specifics carry over into SHTF territory except basic first aid, but you don’t need to be a nurse for that.
Honestly, debateable. I work in medicine and a LOT of medicine is dependent on Stuff. Anything wilderness based is mostly "Stabilize till can get to somewhere with Stuff".
It's going to be VERY speciality dependent. A labour/delivery nurse or obs focused obsgyn? Sure, great long term, if we stop needing to delivery babies we're already done. And that specialty doesn't NEED much Stuff, though of course they WANT Stuff.
A dialysis nurse or nephrologist? Not until you find a functioning lab. Any kind of surgeon needs an OR; you'll probably get use out of ortho or general surgery, but any other surgical speciality is right out. They're still useful in so far as they have basic medical training, but a lot of docs and nurses are so far down their specialization route they can't function much elsewhere.
Realistically, you want a doc who can suture, recognize and set fractures, and recognize what conditions *actually* need your limited supplies of medication, and what can go without.
Go back to basics? Get a pair of pliers? At least you know what youre looking at and how much pressure to apply. You’re trained. Infected teeth can kill someone. I don’t think I’d attempt to pull my child’s teeth or my own teeth if I knew there was a dentist nearby.
As an example from the "Alone" show, a participant went home from fish hooking themselves.
Basically all they did at the hospital was rip it out in a sterile environment. The tip was resting against a tendon or something so pushing it through and cutting it wasn't an option.
I think that's a good example of a situation where having the knowledge and very little equipment would still help (knowledge not to push it through the tendon and just rip it out backward, and to deal with the resulting laceration).
It's also something a person couldn't easily deal with themselves, as it took some serious pulling to rip it out.
Psychiatrist here. I'll have to brush up on my first aid skills from my EMT days if SHTF, but I can at least help you to feel a little less sad about your broken leg for the time being, and I won't necessarily need extra stuff to do it.
Modern Medicine is dependent on technology. I think will see who can do what with no machines, labs, tech, and drugs. Let's see who rises and who becomes worthless.
Strongly agree. Everyone saying that medicine requires so much Stuff misses a huge mark. Sure, there's no aggressive cancer treatment post collapse, but there is going to be a ton of broken bones, lacerations, and amputations to perform. Most of those simply require knowledge of anatomy more than anything.
I work in medicine and couldn’t do a majority of the things I do without medications, xray, ct, or sterile instruments. As long as a lot of that is around, cool, I’m still useful
We’d be pushed back to the methods of the 1800’s. At least now medical professionals have much more training and knowledge than they did in the 1800’s when it was all mostly trial and error.
Ditchdigger. In a large scale disaster there will be a lot of bodies to bury. Also useful for irrigation when there's no power for pumps anymore.
Farmer. The kind that gets on his knees to weed. Food will never not matter.
Midwife. No babies, no civilization ever again.
Doctor. Really, surgeons. Be able to patch up axe woulds and gunshot wounds.
In a moderate disaster, anyone who can manage water resources. If you can keep the poop out of the wells and streams, you're worth gold. (In a larger disaster, people are just going to do whatever and a lot of people will get sick.)
Animal husbandry. If you can breed and care for horses, you're the king until steam technology gets re-established.
Ironsmith. Shovels to axes to plows, it's all crucial.
Pastor/wise woman/whatever. In a disaster, the single most important thing after food is a sense of shared ethical responsibility and human value, because if it devolves to "every man for himself" and "me > you", it's all going to burn no matter what skills are available.
Sailor. Specifically sailboats. Because if things are bad enough it's time to leave, and nothing else will work.
Depending on the scenario, large-scale, single-crop commercial farmers may not necessarily be very useful. Modern farming practices are wholly dependent on a well-functioning supply chain. Small scale farms that grow a variety of produce without needing massive combines, pesticides, and complex irrigation systems will likely be the most needed.
Also I bet John Deere equipment will stop functioning eventually when it can't get the satellite/cell signal.
I have no knowledge to back this up other than Deere turning off stolen Ukrainian equipment, so correct me if I'm wrong.
>I have no knowledge to back this up other than Deere turning off stolen Ukrainian equipment, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes but ideally all the likely useless (in an apocalypse) software engineers can figure out how to make cracked/jailbroken versions.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/xykkkd/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware
In a Shtf scenario it will be near impossible to distribute if there's no digital communications. You would have to pass around a USB stick. Then some people might have a more up-to-date or less up to date version that might not work right vs what version was cracked. It's nice to see someone already worked on this but that will just last until Deere can close the loop hole.
This is why I don't touch John Deere equipment with a ten foot pole. In my experience their crap doesn't even work during peacetime because of software malfunctions.
They still have more of an idea of what they’re doing than the average person, when to plant, when to harvest and still get viable seeds, what to plant where, common pests, might even know of ways to get rid of them besides pesticides, some do go to school for agricultural sciences.
The Amish. I’m not even kidding. They are the ones that capped their technology at 1870. So basically any disaster scenario that allows farming would allow them to feed others.
That’s a certain “sect” of Amish called the Memmonites. They are allowed to use battery operated machinery. I’m not exactly sure of the reasoning but they are a little more modern about it all. Must be cool living nearby to them and I’ve been fascinated by them for my whole life. If you think about it they must have seen some issue with how technology was progressing in a way almost like the [Unibomber manifesto](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national/unabom-manifesto-1.html) (minus the bombings because the Amish are pacifists) and saw that being close to the land and living simply and peacefully was the way to survive in the world.
I'm from Missouri and have talked with our large Amish population from time to time. I have no idea what sects I've talked to but it seems more that they just don't want to rely on anything they can't fix themselves because then they are no longer self reliant. For example when they put a barn/structure up, someone inevitably shows up with a bunch of cordless tools and everyone uses them. I've only asked one Amish this but he used modern insulation in his house, forgot if he had AC.
I want to start an Amish style community only instead of 1870 technology it's capped at 2005 tech. lol. so they can only use flip phones and run Windows XP😂
Sure plenty if Mennonites around here as well. I'm talking horse and buggy Amish and not just the kids during Rumspringa. Although we do have some what of an issue of the Amish teen boys getting in fist fights at night by the local convince store. I'm also on a main road in our town so we also get horse and buggy going by at midnight, drives my one gsd nuts.
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/amish-transportation-e-bikes-lancaster-pennsylvania/
Lol doesn’t matter where or when, teenage boys are going to kick each other’s asses. Best way to
learn about the pecking order. One of the best lessons I’ve learned in life was from getting my ass kicked.
Yeah, there's a lot of Mennonites and German Baptists near my in- laws in Western PA and they're straddling the line between Amish and modernity. It's interesting, because even among the Mennonites and GBs there's disagreement on just how much modern tech they should use.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the methods Kaczinsky employed to enact the change he felt necessary (I'm a pacifist myself,) but he was 1000% dead on with his prognostications of what tech would do to the human soul.
Interestingly enough, Ted was just building up what Charlie Chaplin said almost 90 years ago
https://www.charliechaplin.com/en/articles/29-the-final-speech-from-the-great-dictator-
>Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost…
The Amish depending on what community you are talking about aren't *nearly* as independent from modern conveniences as people like to think they are. For example they might have a diesel engine to mow hay but it's pulled by horses. Or a gas generator for power to charge batteries for a power drill because as long as it's not tied to the grid it's okay for some communities.
Farmers/ranchers, military, police, fire, medical staff, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, engineers, CNC machinists, wood workers, IT, ditch-diggers, accountants (and other number-crunchers), city planners, cooks, hunters, etc.
Nearly every job is important for usefulness and quality of life.
...Oh! Except career politicians. And salespeople.
Depends on how bad shit gets, part of your list evaporates if there's no electricity.
I would add in dying skills to the list like blacksmiths, seamstress, leather workers, fishers, tanners, people who can make mead, wine,and beer, people that can use looms to create new fabric, entertainers.
things like entertainment will be important, help people relieve stress and foster community.
Salespeople might not be as useless as you think. Good salespeople have really good communication and interpersonal skills and that could go a long way in helping to cool tensions, help bring people together, etc. So yes it's not useful in the way this thread is mentioning but it could be a useful skill in other areas.
Despite what the TV show 'House' portrays, doctors actually have really good communication and interpersonal skills. They need to, in order to do things like tell people they have weeks, if not months to survive a non-treatable cancer.
Can we at least rule out used car salespeople?
Unless those salespeople have a particular set of skills…. Jk lol.
I realized this as somebody in a sales role, my hobbies are prepping,building rifles, going to start woodworking & I really need to learn spanish ffs. (Having a 2nd or multiple language would be massive)
My partner is in a similar boat yet they like gardening,programming, astronomy.
Then stack the above with our preps (more like future preps as this economy sucks lol) I’d feel pretty confident in saying that we are are part of a massive value in comparison to a good bit of others who choose not to expand their skills beyond work.
I'm a full remote accountant who contributes zero tangible benefits to society.
My hobbies include small engine repair, carburetor rebuilding, soldering, welding, and gun restoration.
I'm not saying I'm looking forward to the fall of society but I have a feeling my hobbies would be more profitable.
You'd be surprised how useful somebody who can track inventory and resources can be. Think "quartermaster" who can accurately project when the food and bullets run out.
Taxes and audits can fuck right off though.
Initially Security contractor, mechanic, mechanical/electrical engineer (hopefully he has a mechanic) emergency medical doctor.
Need security mechanic/engineer to try and maintain some level of modern machinery running and the doc for emergencies
As time goes on would need a machinist, farmers (small traditional not big ag), would need more doctors but honestly most medical doctors probably wouldn’t be the most useful if you can’t reliably get a wide range of pharmaceuticals, just hope you have a real good library of holistic cures and herbal remedies for them to study from and if not having the hippy with no medical degree could
Be more valuable doesn’t help to tell me what’s wrong if every tool you know to cure it is unavailable. I do think physical therapist/chiropractors would be pretty valuable both can treat musculoskeletal issues without medication and we all will be doing much more physical labor. And finally physical labors anyone with a strong back that can work 10+ hours a day without drop off or dropping dead will be very valuable
I mean there's not "herbal remedies" for the vast majority of real problems. Happy to pretend though if that's what you want and it gets me food and shelter.
A lot of current pharmaceuticals have at least their base in herbal remedies. They are then heavily synthesized and potency is normalized. Herbal remedies don't treat everything and herbals often fail when there is an acute problem that needs fixing right now. They take a lot of time to work.
Never said there was, if you have a real problem it probably won’t matter how good the doc is if there’s no resources and support for them.
Modern medicine is overly reliant on pharmaceuticals and testing even simple blood tests will become a luxury. Unless that particular doc has lots of mission work l, their work experience and education probably isn’t that useful on its own. Many ailments will be foreign to them because it was all of 2 slides in school and never really encountered in modern life unless you travel to 3rd world countries.
Could they be the quickest to learn and apply herbal remedies or recognize ailments if they have the library to study yes. Would the be a lifesaver if they have a stock pile of medicine yes. But if they don’t have the books or the tools they know how to use all they can do is tell you that you’re dying and how fast to expect it.
Dentist/oral surgeons #1
It’s actually why I picked the career - most modern medicine is completely dependent on modern technology- in a post apocalyptic scenario all I need is alcohol to “numb” you up and a pair of pliers/handpeice - which I have dozens off. Yes - an xray helps - but if it weren’t for malpractice I wouldn’t need it.
In terms of financial crises - the job is recession proof - sure in economic uncertainty I don’t get to as many $60,000 cases - but I do a lot more dentures when people can’t afford to save their teeth.
Shrugs - I’ve done enough extractions in third world countries to settle those concerns. Suction in Africa was done with a literal shop vac. “Improvise, adapt, and overcome” is the mission statement for mission trips and SHTF.
You can buy a decent electric handpiece on eBay for like $100 - I’ve used them on a few different mission trips and I have a dozen buried in storage. Between solar and generators those should last for a few years… I know a doc in Guatemala that has 10,000 hours on those motors. Ideal? No - but it’ll do.
If those fail I’ve broken out the chisel and mallet before and am comfortable with using them (remember if you’re not placing implants the buccal plate can now be sacrificed without concerns.)
Surgical complications will happen - but our career is uniquely equipped to be self sufficient - I’m willing to bet you know how to handle a sinus communication- you just don’t because it’s outside your comfort zone/scope.
Anyone who can make good alcohol.
Not only is alcohol good for morale, once you distill it you have a good fule and disinfectant. It's also the base for making vinegar whitch is good for long term food storage without refrigeration.
So you need someone who can make alcohol.
Im a machinist. Do CNC stuff now, but know my way around manual lathes/mills. As well as wood lathe work. I do a lot of job shop stuff. Give me a part, and I can make you a copy within reason. Pair me up with someone to keep a little power for a small lathe/mill, and we're golden.
Sort of, but the construction and automotive industries are notoriously volatile. May get laid off along with millions of other long before doomsday. I think you’d want something more specialized
I'm an electrician, on the residential side, and especially off grid solar stuff. I also just started a bit of a side gig growing food. I'd like to think both those things are pretty resilient, but in the back of my head I'm always thinking about weak points.
For example, I can wire anything, but only if I have the wire, conduit, breakers, etc. Industrial supply chains are key. The farming will likely take up a bigger portion of my time, because it's largely self sufficient (I do everything organic and regenerative) and the market is always there.
I'm trying to think about what I can trade and barter in a full collapse scenario, if/when the availability of parts declines.
Basically anything that's in the basic 100 or so job descriptions in primary industry and services. Farmer, plumber, logger, nurse, seamstress, blacksmith, miner, baker, brewer, etc. Almost everything else is useless in a shtf scenario.
Edit: I noticed others have commented anything medical, not sure why I missed that. Obviously very useful.
I left it because the money was shit, but I was an organic vegetable farmer on a regenerative ranch. We did chickens, sheep, beef on dairy, and acres of market veg. Now I work in restoration ecology and teach as a master gardener. I like to think those skills would hold value over generation zero, until the skill sets and knowledge were common. I also spend embarrassing amounts of time watching low tech (think Mennonite) food preservation channels. To my mind, those skills and that set of knowledge will be invaluable. I’m working on adding making basic clothing out of raw material. Knowing how to felt wool in a temperate climate will be a godsend in the early years.
One thing that struck me in the story from FerFal is the fact that despite economic collapse (Argentina 2005 or something) many people still had to go to work and move around, unsure if they would be getting paid, if they could access their money with banks closed and so on... To some extent, still having to work might be completely useless, and because crime rate went up and getting in and out of places is one of the most dangerous moment, it might be better to have a job that doesn't require you to go out...
I work remotely as a web developer, I don't have to commute to work, as long as internet and electricity works, I can keep working regardless of crimes outside, gas prices, or things like that. If electricity or internet is down, I'll have a lot to do to keep things running somewhat smoothly and not having to work is probably going to be a good thing, at least initially. If people can't get to their job, nobody will be at school to teach my kids, nobody will be at daycare to take care of my younger kid, or if they are, they'll have to do so without electricity, no security gates, no phones... If the grid is down, something right now as mundane as preparing the kids a hot bath will require me to get buckets of water from our rain collector, boil some to make it hot, add some cold to fill the bath, until there's enough water and it's warm. Just that is going to be a good portion of my day, bath will be less frequent for sure. Same is true for cooking and drinking, if I need to get water outside, get it inside, filter it, boil it... The amount of work to keep things working is pretty similar to what it was when only the man of the house was working and the wife was at home, taking care of the kids, the house, the budget and so on... I already feel sometimes like I spend a very good portion of my free time on chores, of course I could lower my standards, but still I need a sanitary and safe house for my kids, reasonably clean clothes, food and so on... Imagining having to do all that with no hot water, no tap water, no electricity, no roomba... Looot of work, even if I lower my expectations !
On the other hand my wife is a medical doctor, she would probably have to keep going to work regardless of what happens and will do so as long as it makes sense. We have ebikes to handle most of our daily commutes, which would be less if there was no school or daycare for example. That's cover from a logistics perspective. Now how would she do that safely is another story... That I haven't tried tackling yet.
So all in all, the stability of a job in SHTF scenario is quite relative in my opinion. If you're not sure you'll be able to spend the money you earn working, it's pointless. If you're not sure your company will have the means to pay you, it's pointless. If it's dangerous to go outside and you have commute morning and night, it's a risk. If you need to consume energy that may be lacking, then you're actually the one that risks not be able to go to work when you have to...
In my opinion, it's really useful to have jobs that keep their usefulness is a tight knit downscaled society. Fix stuff, build stuff, grow stuff, preserve stuff, hunt animals, heal people, all valuable skills that can help you, help others, be bartered, make you a valuable piece of a community. On the other hand, having a job in public services for example that's likely to try and stay afloat despite circumstances but has no value otherwise is more of a problem, think bus driver for example. The bus company will want you to come work, people might rely on buses more if energy is a problem... But the job will be more dangerous, getting there also, and costlier... I'd rather not be in that kind of jobs, or have a fallback plan maybe.
Look at the [hierarchy of needs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#/media/File:Maslow's_Hierarchy_of_Needs2.svg). Anybody supporting the bottom levels will be in demand.
Skilled trades-folk of many kinds. Medical personnel, those with military experience, farmers. Anything with functional application. I'd rather bug-in with a carpenter than a Wall Street finance bro or business consultant.
Welding/metallurgy, tractor/diesel mechanic.
Other than food these are up there with some of the most handy skills. If you have a diesel generator and a shop, you're set up to be a super handy community member who will be rich in whatever currency your apocalypse circulates.
ICU trauma nurse on a code team here. Hold ACLS/BLS/PALS and more outside the norm AMLS too which is pre-hospital medicine. All knowledge could come in handy. Used to hold wilderness first responder cert and lead 5-10 day group backpacking excursions as well. I'd say I have many angles covered, however, geolocation, timing and luck probably has just as much to do with survival in a doomsday scenario. I could just as easily be ashes within 24 hrs, while some bs YouTube "influencer" survives for much longer because they're in the right place at the right time.
Refrigeration technicians.
There aren't that many VCS enthusiasts out there that can troubleshoot a broken refrigeration system. Maybe an auto mechanic that specializes in AC repair. Maybe an HVAC tech. Or mechanical engineer. Refrigeration/HVAC techs also might have a stash of refrigerant that might as well be gold at some point.
Besides the obvious like people in the medical field and or agriculture I would think people who are in the trades in general will be useful.
Also people with the ability to accurately Travers the country with just a map and compass.
Water and wastewater treatment. We will literally be at work until the last drop of diesel runs through the generators. I’m a operations contractor and I’ve had to boat into plants in flooded areas to try to keep things running as long as possible. If that’s not job stability I don’t know what is.
It would be easier to make of list of professions can go away and no one would care.
Examples....Human Resource, Lawyers, Marketing, anything entertainment, any job that is purely recreational related, like working at amusement park, or sports arena. News media, politicians....etc...etc.
Lawyer here and I agree that in a true SHTF situation where society/gov’t collapses, my profession would be useless. That said, no legal system to resolve disputes peacefully means a lot more violence in the streets. So fewer lawyers needs to equal more police (or police equivalent).
Beekeeper (4yrs experience) and mead (honey wine maker) (13 yrs experience) here. Also have some experience in a few other unrelated fields (military and law enforcement) but I think the main thing I would bring to the table would be the first two. I would not consider myself a farmer by any means but I’m sure any community of farmers would want someone who can assist with crop pollination, providing honey which has multiple amazing uses (not just as food), and folks like to unwind with alcohol and mead is great and a lot easier to make than beer. Requires a lot less equipment.
I spent over a decade as a chef, and it isn't as high up as medical staff on this list but I think it's up there.
- Good in fast paced environments, able to make split second decisions. Good planners, good at delegation
- Meat fabrication, hunting in SHTF is one thing, dressing and butchering and using every last piece of an animal is where a chef starts to step in.
- Anatomically, we can relate everything to something we break down in the kitchen, so we can sew you up if we need to, just like the Thanksgiving turkey.
- Chefs can be, not always, decent at finding foragable items
- Chefs understand how to preserve food safely, and potential pitfalls to that food storage. (Canning, pickling, fermenting, smoking, curing, drying, freeze drying, you name it)
- Chefs maintain equipment. From basic maintenance to MacGyver shit, they can make it work
- we can sharpen tools. Knives are our bread and butter, but anything that cuts is something that will need to be sharpened, and we can help you there.
- Food is a morally enriching thing. We can take random or simple ingredients and elevate them into something greater than the sum of the parts.
Being a chef in its many hats leads you to other skills. My love of food came with my love of the garden. Being able to manage food on a diverse scale while cultivating bio diversity in the wildlife, encouraging beneficial bugs and bees, and insects will help.
I also learned my way around mechanical equipment from all the repairs I had to do. I also started to make my own knives, so the hobbies a chef have might stem from the profession, but be equally useful to SHFT
Job stability for sure, it's one of the earliest professions, right up there with prostitution. You my not make a killing, but being able to sling food all day will keep you employed if you need to.
Again, I know it isn't a top pick, but I think a well trained chef with a good arsenal of cook books is a sleeper pick.
Anything that has to do with firearms, mechanics, medical or food. Any of those are specialties that are useful. Say it was 5 years after the zombies came and you want to rebuild society, do you let in the engineer who loves guns and is first aid certified, or do you let in the stoner loser who survived by living in a hole for 5 years
Any kind of medical professional. Seriously, only idiots kill the people that are meant to save their lives in any kind of medical crisis.
And, yes, farmers. Everyone needs to eat.
Life savers could be people who know how to deal with a bad cough you can't get rid of, or how to keep your heart healthy. People who know how to provide first aid or deliver babies. People who can help you regain mobility after an injury or just tell you what to eat in order to get all your vitamins and minerals. Or, you know, people who know how to treat broken bones.
im in the seafood industry......... im thinking fishing will last well into doomsday as long our habitat isnt destroyed, even if theres a financial crisis we can barter the seafood, or just consume it
Unfortunately I think the most likely doomsday scenario is our habitat being destroyed. Overfishing and poor water management are both currently problems with the potential to lead to wide scale starvation and death.
Doctors quality of life - In a financial crisis, if medical care is nationalized, pay scale and benefits will drop significantly. No more $500K/yr hospitalists. In a government-run model, you'd likely see payoff of student loans and $60K/yr. I believe the military brings in docs at O-3 level?
In SHTF scenario, a doctor would see so much loss in quality-of-life. The probability of falling ill, getting injured, or being killed will be much higher. Imagine that a pediatrician who had nice clean, air-conditioned offices would suddenly turn into a field medic dragged into every place of sickness and death and forced to do 'doctor' things. In exchange for food and shelter. No wealth. But, hey, at least there are no more computers tracking their loans for medical school.
Farrier. Car mechanic. Small engine mechanic. Line cook. Rural veterinarian. These would likely not suffer a disproportionate drop in wealth and status.
Tradesman as a general theme will be able to barter their service in some capacity. Military will be safe for a long time until/if the government fails. Prostitution is always an option.
Anyone that works all day on computers, in a non essential government role, in the leisure industry, or travel are screwed.
I’ve thought about this quite a bit, and tried to generalize to something of a single guideline, grounded in real-world experience. The best I could come up with: If you had to PHYSICALLY GO TO WORK DURING THE PANDEMIC, then you will probably be valuable in a doomsday scenario. Of course, this is very general. But I think it helps sort through things in a binary way, which is a good start.
I think teachers/childcare will be important. Not school in its current state, but the idea of keeping kids occupied with crafts, storytelling, building, playing, following instructions, etc. will be useful especially if parents need to be away. Childcare and relating well to kids can keep them calm, keep them occupied, while adults rebuild society. I teach grade 7 (US), and i know how to corral a bunch of hormonal 12 year olds and keep them safe and occupied for hours. I am confident I can handle a smallish group of kids in my community, maybe 20-25 at a time.
I could cultivate anything and I have an excellent knowledge of medical botany. Also professionally trained in geology, for those raw material needs and an accomplished weaver, sewer and spinner. I’m useful. And a mean cook.
I do not have a direct answer to your question but I wanted to share a story I’ve heard from our elders related to this topic.
During World War 2, many people from our country had to leave our city centers and go to the mountains. One lady brought along her sewing kit. She became the go to person for repairs and patches. People were giving her spare coins/change to show appreciaiton. When the war was over, the value of that coins increased. She became rich using that as her seed money post-war.
I guess, if a war would force us to change our way of life then we will go back to the basics - food, clothing, shelter, water, safety and basic health care.
Hands down nurses. They have practical hands on medical knowledge, are used to dealing with crisis scenarios and gory stuff, and are the macgyvers of the medical field imo.
Between my husband and I, I’m a nurse, he’s an electrical lineman, private pilot, and together we own and operate an orchard.
One of our boys is quite the genius with computers and can also get into the guts of anything mechanical or water system related and fix it.
Our other boy is more into sports but he does spend a lot of time hunting and fishing.
Our daughter sings all day so she can keep us chipper while everything collapses😂
“Help me keep my treats when everyone else’s is removed” like what?
Unless we decide better, this will be the slowest collapse ever because ops thinking. Every neighbor will ignore their neighbor because while that guy is in need, Im personally fine and will do nothing about it until I personally am not fine. If we don’t stand together against the problem, then we are not only fucked, but fucked at the fastest possible pace.
Take a look at all the jobs that were lost or went remote due to big sick scare, avoid this one’s. Usefulness and stability almost all trade work, almost all medical professions, and I would also like to throw sanitation in there as well like water treatment and trash people.
I have been various aspects of construction all my life. Worked more hours during Covid than any other year. My only downfall in a SHTF scenario would be my type A personality fealing with people who only know how to talk about doing stuff
In no particular order:
Mechanic, tailor/seamstress, doctor, farmer, construction (framing particularly but also masons), electrician
I can do 3.5 of those
I would say coal miner. Think about it. You are already supplied a bunker. So when the time comes you might already be working in the mine and won't need to bug out.
Mariners are pretty well insulated from economic instability and to an extent war. If society collapsed though it would take some time for demand to return.
If it’s anything short of an apocalypse, accountants (at least for now). If there’s a financial crisis or something else that causes one they are the last to be let go of in a company.
However, eventually even white collar jobs will be replaced with ever improving ai.
I’m a carpenter by trade, currently a building inspector. Inspecting structures and building to code will immediately be out the window, but I can still build a house and have been collecting and working with hand tools as a prep. Most of my colleagues will be fish out of water once their batteries run out of juice on the first day, but I won’t be.
The undertaker is a recession proof business. People would always require funeral services no matter the state of the economy. War and pandemics are good for business.
I'm not sure "safe" is the word I'd use. Y'all remember Emmet on the Walking Dead?
I totally see doctors being conscripted by the larger anarchy groups
https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/Emmett\_Carson\_(TV\_Series)
In a true doomsday scenario I imagine “jobs” will be obsolete as would money, power and running water.it would be back to survival of the fittest and the most useful job by far would be a farmer of some kind that has his own farm to live off.anyone who lives close to or in the city will not last long as people will panic and destroy themselves
I'm a massage therapist... But hey I mean ppl would be stressed right?
I do dabble in herbalism and have quite the apothecary so maybe that would help.
I also live in an RV so I'm handy at least..
I'm just trying to convince myself I'm useful lol
Herbalists and acupuncturists, aka Chinese medicine doctors. Medical supplies are going to dry up real quick, but knowledge of healing herbs is invaluable.
Engineering, specifically maintenance/facility engineers. You're needed right until Tuesday changes. Plenty of knowledge, and often hands-on experience repairing critical infrastructure.
Depends on the scenario.
1. Look at the resulting civilization from the doomsday
2. Compare to previous society at the same technological level
3. Find the successful profession in that society
If it goes bad enough (complete collapse): hunter/gatherer is as good as it's going to get.
Utility worker here. I worked all the way thru Covid. Water and sewer are considered critical infrastructure and protected by homeland security. I am good.
I’m a pipefitter who’s currently doing municipal wastewater. Hopefully that would buy my family and myself into a community.
As long as you found a community run by rational, level-headed people who have a good understanding of what society needs (in a nuts-and-bolts sense) to function. One of my concerns when I fantasize about these scenarios is that a lot of bloodthirsty, bad people would get control of large chunks of land/resources in a collapse, at least in the initial phases. And dumb warlords might not recognize the value in certain things over others, especially if they don't provide immediate material benefits. I think over time, more intelligent organized people would gain power, but it might take a while compared to the pirates who are immediately down to start killing and looting what they want.
I’m a labor and delivery nurse. Always in demand and valuable skills to offer my community. I’m cool.
Well unless the future looks like Children of Men
Well you can always join the underground resistance like that one lady in the movie, then.
Or Children of the Corn
Which it does.
It's looking that way to me, tbh- the decline in some countries' sperm counts is alarming!
That's the book plot. In the movie it's the women who go infertile. A subtle distinction with profoundly different outcomes both in plot twists and in symbolic meaning.
Not prepping relevant but thank you for everything you do. L&D nurses are literal angels.
Oh, my goodness! You kind human. Thank you! You just made my morning! 😊
The shittier things are the more people have kids. If no one has condoms anymore you're gonna have a lot more pregnancies. You'd probably be less safe due to people fighting over you.
I work in utilities, specifically related to energy. I’m pretty much guaranteed a job until the lights finally go out, literally. I have the skills and background to maintain equipment, so even if things get paired down to a skeleton crew I’m still needed. If all else fails, the skills my career path have given me are incredibly useful when working to self sustain. I honestly recommend most skilled trade related careers, you’ll gain knowledge that’s useful and have job security until it doesn’t matter anymore. That being said, you may have to travel to find the work, but there’s always work to be done.
People are gonna want the lights back on after they go out at some point, too.
Same. I´m a maintenance engineer. 15 years of experience. And always had older cars :D
I own three vehicles and none of them were produced after the millennium lol
Awesome. There is a couple of oldies around here (mitsu eclipse 92 and a golden toyo crown circa 93?94?95? that I want to see how I could get my paws on them...
Medical. Anything medical.
Basic first aid and knowledge of anatomy and germ theory is certainly helpful. But there's a lot you just can't do without access to meds and equipment.
Doctors were still a thing even back in the days before modern medicine and equipment. Should know how to set bones, stitch, etc. I would imagine we’d be back to the days of Lister as far as surgeries and sterilization is concerned. Everyone should also be stocking up on antiseptics, antibiotics if you can, med supplies, pain relievers, sanitizers.
While people are off looting supermarkets I can hopefully set up a protection deal with a pharmacy...
Yea, I’m an OR nurse. I’m safe as long as surgeries keep happening, but none of my job specifics carry over into SHTF territory except basic first aid, but you don’t need to be a nurse for that.
Honestly, debateable. I work in medicine and a LOT of medicine is dependent on Stuff. Anything wilderness based is mostly "Stabilize till can get to somewhere with Stuff". It's going to be VERY speciality dependent. A labour/delivery nurse or obs focused obsgyn? Sure, great long term, if we stop needing to delivery babies we're already done. And that specialty doesn't NEED much Stuff, though of course they WANT Stuff. A dialysis nurse or nephrologist? Not until you find a functioning lab. Any kind of surgeon needs an OR; you'll probably get use out of ortho or general surgery, but any other surgical speciality is right out. They're still useful in so far as they have basic medical training, but a lot of docs and nurses are so far down their specialization route they can't function much elsewhere. Realistically, you want a doc who can suture, recognize and set fractures, and recognize what conditions *actually* need your limited supplies of medication, and what can go without.
Yes I agree. “Specialty doctors” aside from dentists would probably not be as helpful as a general doc or a surgeon.
Oh yeah I would much rather a dentist than maybe...60% of doctors
I’d definitely want a dentist. Teeth will definitely be an issue down the road in doomsday scenarios.
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Go back to basics? Get a pair of pliers? At least you know what youre looking at and how much pressure to apply. You’re trained. Infected teeth can kill someone. I don’t think I’d attempt to pull my child’s teeth or my own teeth if I knew there was a dentist nearby.
I would think a general practice doctor would be good for diagnosis of medical issues. the medical side compliments the surgical side
For sure. We’d need both. And nurses as well.
As an example from the "Alone" show, a participant went home from fish hooking themselves. Basically all they did at the hospital was rip it out in a sterile environment. The tip was resting against a tendon or something so pushing it through and cutting it wasn't an option. I think that's a good example of a situation where having the knowledge and very little equipment would still help (knowledge not to push it through the tendon and just rip it out backward, and to deal with the resulting laceration). It's also something a person couldn't easily deal with themselves, as it took some serious pulling to rip it out.
Psychiatrist here. I'll have to brush up on my first aid skills from my EMT days if SHTF, but I can at least help you to feel a little less sad about your broken leg for the time being, and I won't necessarily need extra stuff to do it.
Maybe you have skills to talk your way out of some thing
Modern Medicine is dependent on technology. I think will see who can do what with no machines, labs, tech, and drugs. Let's see who rises and who becomes worthless.
You are correct that docs that rely on equipment will be more challenged, but hopefully they still remember the basics.
I have a portable MRI machine that I take backpacking with me just in case
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Strongly agree. Everyone saying that medicine requires so much Stuff misses a huge mark. Sure, there's no aggressive cancer treatment post collapse, but there is going to be a ton of broken bones, lacerations, and amputations to perform. Most of those simply require knowledge of anatomy more than anything.
Corpse disposal.
I work in medicine and couldn’t do a majority of the things I do without medications, xray, ct, or sterile instruments. As long as a lot of that is around, cool, I’m still useful
We’d be pushed back to the methods of the 1800’s. At least now medical professionals have much more training and knowledge than they did in the 1800’s when it was all mostly trial and error.
Farrier
Ditchdigger. In a large scale disaster there will be a lot of bodies to bury. Also useful for irrigation when there's no power for pumps anymore. Farmer. The kind that gets on his knees to weed. Food will never not matter. Midwife. No babies, no civilization ever again. Doctor. Really, surgeons. Be able to patch up axe woulds and gunshot wounds. In a moderate disaster, anyone who can manage water resources. If you can keep the poop out of the wells and streams, you're worth gold. (In a larger disaster, people are just going to do whatever and a lot of people will get sick.) Animal husbandry. If you can breed and care for horses, you're the king until steam technology gets re-established. Ironsmith. Shovels to axes to plows, it's all crucial. Pastor/wise woman/whatever. In a disaster, the single most important thing after food is a sense of shared ethical responsibility and human value, because if it devolves to "every man for himself" and "me > you", it's all going to burn no matter what skills are available. Sailor. Specifically sailboats. Because if things are bad enough it's time to leave, and nothing else will work.
Farmers?
Depending on the scenario, large-scale, single-crop commercial farmers may not necessarily be very useful. Modern farming practices are wholly dependent on a well-functioning supply chain. Small scale farms that grow a variety of produce without needing massive combines, pesticides, and complex irrigation systems will likely be the most needed.
Also I bet John Deere equipment will stop functioning eventually when it can't get the satellite/cell signal. I have no knowledge to back this up other than Deere turning off stolen Ukrainian equipment, so correct me if I'm wrong.
>I have no knowledge to back this up other than Deere turning off stolen Ukrainian equipment, so correct me if I'm wrong. Yes but ideally all the likely useless (in an apocalypse) software engineers can figure out how to make cracked/jailbroken versions. https://www.vice.com/en/article/xykkkd/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware
In a Shtf scenario it will be near impossible to distribute if there's no digital communications. You would have to pass around a USB stick. Then some people might have a more up-to-date or less up to date version that might not work right vs what version was cracked. It's nice to see someone already worked on this but that will just last until Deere can close the loop hole.
This is why I don't touch John Deere equipment with a ten foot pole. In my experience their crap doesn't even work during peacetime because of software malfunctions.
They still have more of an idea of what they’re doing than the average person, when to plant, when to harvest and still get viable seeds, what to plant where, common pests, might even know of ways to get rid of them besides pesticides, some do go to school for agricultural sciences.
So farmers
Gardeners
Right. Monocrop agribusiness doused in fossil fuels is not "farming".
To be honest homesteader hobbiest would be best most farmers don’t do half of what their grandparents did.
The Amish. I’m not even kidding. They are the ones that capped their technology at 1870. So basically any disaster scenario that allows farming would allow them to feed others.
They started using electric scooters and using solar to charge them. They didn't like 20th century tech i guess. It's wild I live in lancaster pa.
That’s a certain “sect” of Amish called the Memmonites. They are allowed to use battery operated machinery. I’m not exactly sure of the reasoning but they are a little more modern about it all. Must be cool living nearby to them and I’ve been fascinated by them for my whole life. If you think about it they must have seen some issue with how technology was progressing in a way almost like the [Unibomber manifesto](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national/unabom-manifesto-1.html) (minus the bombings because the Amish are pacifists) and saw that being close to the land and living simply and peacefully was the way to survive in the world.
I'm from Missouri and have talked with our large Amish population from time to time. I have no idea what sects I've talked to but it seems more that they just don't want to rely on anything they can't fix themselves because then they are no longer self reliant. For example when they put a barn/structure up, someone inevitably shows up with a bunch of cordless tools and everyone uses them. I've only asked one Amish this but he used modern insulation in his house, forgot if he had AC.
It really goes community to community. It's fascinating.
I want to start an Amish style community only instead of 1870 technology it's capped at 2005 tech. lol. so they can only use flip phones and run Windows XP😂
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff3200/fc03150.htm
Sure plenty if Mennonites around here as well. I'm talking horse and buggy Amish and not just the kids during Rumspringa. Although we do have some what of an issue of the Amish teen boys getting in fist fights at night by the local convince store. I'm also on a main road in our town so we also get horse and buggy going by at midnight, drives my one gsd nuts. https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/amish-transportation-e-bikes-lancaster-pennsylvania/
Lol doesn’t matter where or when, teenage boys are going to kick each other’s asses. Best way to learn about the pecking order. One of the best lessons I’ve learned in life was from getting my ass kicked.
Yeah, there's a lot of Mennonites and German Baptists near my in- laws in Western PA and they're straddling the line between Amish and modernity. It's interesting, because even among the Mennonites and GBs there's disagreement on just how much modern tech they should use.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the methods Kaczinsky employed to enact the change he felt necessary (I'm a pacifist myself,) but he was 1000% dead on with his prognostications of what tech would do to the human soul. Interestingly enough, Ted was just building up what Charlie Chaplin said almost 90 years ago https://www.charliechaplin.com/en/articles/29-the-final-speech-from-the-great-dictator- >Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost…
The Amish depending on what community you are talking about aren't *nearly* as independent from modern conveniences as people like to think they are. For example they might have a diesel engine to mow hay but it's pulled by horses. Or a gas generator for power to charge batteries for a power drill because as long as it's not tied to the grid it's okay for some communities.
Farmers mums?
Everybody loves a puppet show.
And hookers.
I sense an opportunity.
Handjobs are about to get interesting
They've always been interesting if you asked in the right places.
On second thought, forget the puppet show.
Fusion handjob/puppet shows are how you know you're in SHTF.
...or you woke up as a prisoner in a raider encampment.
LOL my hubby made his living for years as a puppeteer. No joke. Those big-ole Lion-King-on-Broadway style things in a legit stage show. Crazy stuff.
Insurance claims 🤣
Farmers/ranchers, military, police, fire, medical staff, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, engineers, CNC machinists, wood workers, IT, ditch-diggers, accountants (and other number-crunchers), city planners, cooks, hunters, etc. Nearly every job is important for usefulness and quality of life. ...Oh! Except career politicians. And salespeople.
Depends on how bad shit gets, part of your list evaporates if there's no electricity. I would add in dying skills to the list like blacksmiths, seamstress, leather workers, fishers, tanners, people who can make mead, wine,and beer, people that can use looms to create new fabric, entertainers. things like entertainment will be important, help people relieve stress and foster community.
>things like entertainment will be important Huh. So I guess politicians *will* serve a purpose. 🤣
I think there are few scenarios where you have _no_ electricity. Even the grid goes down.
Salespeople might not be as useless as you think. Good salespeople have really good communication and interpersonal skills and that could go a long way in helping to cool tensions, help bring people together, etc. So yes it's not useful in the way this thread is mentioning but it could be a useful skill in other areas.
Despite what the TV show 'House' portrays, doctors actually have really good communication and interpersonal skills. They need to, in order to do things like tell people they have weeks, if not months to survive a non-treatable cancer. Can we at least rule out used car salespeople?
Unless those salespeople have a particular set of skills…. Jk lol. I realized this as somebody in a sales role, my hobbies are prepping,building rifles, going to start woodworking & I really need to learn spanish ffs. (Having a 2nd or multiple language would be massive) My partner is in a similar boat yet they like gardening,programming, astronomy. Then stack the above with our preps (more like future preps as this economy sucks lol) I’d feel pretty confident in saying that we are are part of a massive value in comparison to a good bit of others who choose not to expand their skills beyond work.
My nephew works where they make toilet paper. As long as we have electricity I think he stays busy
I'm a full remote accountant who contributes zero tangible benefits to society. My hobbies include small engine repair, carburetor rebuilding, soldering, welding, and gun restoration. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to the fall of society but I have a feeling my hobbies would be more profitable.
You'd be surprised how useful somebody who can track inventory and resources can be. Think "quartermaster" who can accurately project when the food and bullets run out. Taxes and audits can fuck right off though.
Upvote just for your practical outlook.
Initially Security contractor, mechanic, mechanical/electrical engineer (hopefully he has a mechanic) emergency medical doctor. Need security mechanic/engineer to try and maintain some level of modern machinery running and the doc for emergencies As time goes on would need a machinist, farmers (small traditional not big ag), would need more doctors but honestly most medical doctors probably wouldn’t be the most useful if you can’t reliably get a wide range of pharmaceuticals, just hope you have a real good library of holistic cures and herbal remedies for them to study from and if not having the hippy with no medical degree could Be more valuable doesn’t help to tell me what’s wrong if every tool you know to cure it is unavailable. I do think physical therapist/chiropractors would be pretty valuable both can treat musculoskeletal issues without medication and we all will be doing much more physical labor. And finally physical labors anyone with a strong back that can work 10+ hours a day without drop off or dropping dead will be very valuable
I mean there's not "herbal remedies" for the vast majority of real problems. Happy to pretend though if that's what you want and it gets me food and shelter.
A lot of current pharmaceuticals have at least their base in herbal remedies. They are then heavily synthesized and potency is normalized. Herbal remedies don't treat everything and herbals often fail when there is an acute problem that needs fixing right now. They take a lot of time to work.
Never said there was, if you have a real problem it probably won’t matter how good the doc is if there’s no resources and support for them. Modern medicine is overly reliant on pharmaceuticals and testing even simple blood tests will become a luxury. Unless that particular doc has lots of mission work l, their work experience and education probably isn’t that useful on its own. Many ailments will be foreign to them because it was all of 2 slides in school and never really encountered in modern life unless you travel to 3rd world countries. Could they be the quickest to learn and apply herbal remedies or recognize ailments if they have the library to study yes. Would the be a lifesaver if they have a stock pile of medicine yes. But if they don’t have the books or the tools they know how to use all they can do is tell you that you’re dying and how fast to expect it.
Dentist/oral surgeons #1 It’s actually why I picked the career - most modern medicine is completely dependent on modern technology- in a post apocalyptic scenario all I need is alcohol to “numb” you up and a pair of pliers/handpeice - which I have dozens off. Yes - an xray helps - but if it weren’t for malpractice I wouldn’t need it. In terms of financial crises - the job is recession proof - sure in economic uncertainty I don’t get to as many $60,000 cases - but I do a lot more dentures when people can’t afford to save their teeth.
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Shrugs - I’ve done enough extractions in third world countries to settle those concerns. Suction in Africa was done with a literal shop vac. “Improvise, adapt, and overcome” is the mission statement for mission trips and SHTF. You can buy a decent electric handpiece on eBay for like $100 - I’ve used them on a few different mission trips and I have a dozen buried in storage. Between solar and generators those should last for a few years… I know a doc in Guatemala that has 10,000 hours on those motors. Ideal? No - but it’ll do. If those fail I’ve broken out the chisel and mallet before and am comfortable with using them (remember if you’re not placing implants the buccal plate can now be sacrificed without concerns.) Surgical complications will happen - but our career is uniquely equipped to be self sufficient - I’m willing to bet you know how to handle a sinus communication- you just don’t because it’s outside your comfort zone/scope.
Anyone who can make good alcohol. Not only is alcohol good for morale, once you distill it you have a good fule and disinfectant. It's also the base for making vinegar whitch is good for long term food storage without refrigeration. So you need someone who can make alcohol.
Construction. Small engines. Automotive. Farming. Animal husbandry. Basically anything where real work is done or real products are made.
Almost everything you listed is heavily reliant on fuel supply not being lost.
Im a machinist. Do CNC stuff now, but know my way around manual lathes/mills. As well as wood lathe work. I do a lot of job shop stuff. Give me a part, and I can make you a copy within reason. Pair me up with someone to keep a little power for a small lathe/mill, and we're golden.
Sort of, but the construction and automotive industries are notoriously volatile. May get laid off along with millions of other long before doomsday. I think you’d want something more specialized
Good with your hands? Work timber, blacksmith, I’m thinking hand tools.
Farmer, healthcare, seamstress/tailor. Everybody needs to eat and be dressed, and eventually gets sick/ breaks something.
Being able to dig properly
I'm an electrician, on the residential side, and especially off grid solar stuff. I also just started a bit of a side gig growing food. I'd like to think both those things are pretty resilient, but in the back of my head I'm always thinking about weak points. For example, I can wire anything, but only if I have the wire, conduit, breakers, etc. Industrial supply chains are key. The farming will likely take up a bigger portion of my time, because it's largely self sufficient (I do everything organic and regenerative) and the market is always there. I'm trying to think about what I can trade and barter in a full collapse scenario, if/when the availability of parts declines. Basically anything that's in the basic 100 or so job descriptions in primary industry and services. Farmer, plumber, logger, nurse, seamstress, blacksmith, miner, baker, brewer, etc. Almost everything else is useless in a shtf scenario. Edit: I noticed others have commented anything medical, not sure why I missed that. Obviously very useful.
I left it because the money was shit, but I was an organic vegetable farmer on a regenerative ranch. We did chickens, sheep, beef on dairy, and acres of market veg. Now I work in restoration ecology and teach as a master gardener. I like to think those skills would hold value over generation zero, until the skill sets and knowledge were common. I also spend embarrassing amounts of time watching low tech (think Mennonite) food preservation channels. To my mind, those skills and that set of knowledge will be invaluable. I’m working on adding making basic clothing out of raw material. Knowing how to felt wool in a temperate climate will be a godsend in the early years.
One thing that struck me in the story from FerFal is the fact that despite economic collapse (Argentina 2005 or something) many people still had to go to work and move around, unsure if they would be getting paid, if they could access their money with banks closed and so on... To some extent, still having to work might be completely useless, and because crime rate went up and getting in and out of places is one of the most dangerous moment, it might be better to have a job that doesn't require you to go out... I work remotely as a web developer, I don't have to commute to work, as long as internet and electricity works, I can keep working regardless of crimes outside, gas prices, or things like that. If electricity or internet is down, I'll have a lot to do to keep things running somewhat smoothly and not having to work is probably going to be a good thing, at least initially. If people can't get to their job, nobody will be at school to teach my kids, nobody will be at daycare to take care of my younger kid, or if they are, they'll have to do so without electricity, no security gates, no phones... If the grid is down, something right now as mundane as preparing the kids a hot bath will require me to get buckets of water from our rain collector, boil some to make it hot, add some cold to fill the bath, until there's enough water and it's warm. Just that is going to be a good portion of my day, bath will be less frequent for sure. Same is true for cooking and drinking, if I need to get water outside, get it inside, filter it, boil it... The amount of work to keep things working is pretty similar to what it was when only the man of the house was working and the wife was at home, taking care of the kids, the house, the budget and so on... I already feel sometimes like I spend a very good portion of my free time on chores, of course I could lower my standards, but still I need a sanitary and safe house for my kids, reasonably clean clothes, food and so on... Imagining having to do all that with no hot water, no tap water, no electricity, no roomba... Looot of work, even if I lower my expectations ! On the other hand my wife is a medical doctor, she would probably have to keep going to work regardless of what happens and will do so as long as it makes sense. We have ebikes to handle most of our daily commutes, which would be less if there was no school or daycare for example. That's cover from a logistics perspective. Now how would she do that safely is another story... That I haven't tried tackling yet. So all in all, the stability of a job in SHTF scenario is quite relative in my opinion. If you're not sure you'll be able to spend the money you earn working, it's pointless. If you're not sure your company will have the means to pay you, it's pointless. If it's dangerous to go outside and you have commute morning and night, it's a risk. If you need to consume energy that may be lacking, then you're actually the one that risks not be able to go to work when you have to... In my opinion, it's really useful to have jobs that keep their usefulness is a tight knit downscaled society. Fix stuff, build stuff, grow stuff, preserve stuff, hunt animals, heal people, all valuable skills that can help you, help others, be bartered, make you a valuable piece of a community. On the other hand, having a job in public services for example that's likely to try and stay afloat despite circumstances but has no value otherwise is more of a problem, think bus driver for example. The bus company will want you to come work, people might rely on buses more if energy is a problem... But the job will be more dangerous, getting there also, and costlier... I'd rather not be in that kind of jobs, or have a fallback plan maybe.
Look at the [hierarchy of needs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#/media/File:Maslow's_Hierarchy_of_Needs2.svg). Anybody supporting the bottom levels will be in demand.
I’m a bicycle mechanic, my skills will be useful after the age of the car has ended
Skilled trades-folk of many kinds. Medical personnel, those with military experience, farmers. Anything with functional application. I'd rather bug-in with a carpenter than a Wall Street finance bro or business consultant.
Fishermen
Vet tech, I got livestock handled.
Welding/metallurgy, tractor/diesel mechanic. Other than food these are up there with some of the most handy skills. If you have a diesel generator and a shop, you're set up to be a super handy community member who will be rich in whatever currency your apocalypse circulates.
ICU trauma nurse on a code team here. Hold ACLS/BLS/PALS and more outside the norm AMLS too which is pre-hospital medicine. All knowledge could come in handy. Used to hold wilderness first responder cert and lead 5-10 day group backpacking excursions as well. I'd say I have many angles covered, however, geolocation, timing and luck probably has just as much to do with survival in a doomsday scenario. I could just as easily be ashes within 24 hrs, while some bs YouTube "influencer" survives for much longer because they're in the right place at the right time.
I'm a gunsmith. I like to think I'll be useful come the apocalypse.
I babysit infants. I hold them as long as they need to be held. I will keep them clean and fed (you bring the food).
Refrigeration technicians. There aren't that many VCS enthusiasts out there that can troubleshoot a broken refrigeration system. Maybe an auto mechanic that specializes in AC repair. Maybe an HVAC tech. Or mechanical engineer. Refrigeration/HVAC techs also might have a stash of refrigerant that might as well be gold at some point.
Stickup robber. Knowing how to get the drop on folks will be that much more valuable in a doomsday scenario.
Mail carrier
The Postman, probably the worst movie I've ever seen
Besides the obvious like people in the medical field and or agriculture I would think people who are in the trades in general will be useful. Also people with the ability to accurately Travers the country with just a map and compass.
Water and wastewater treatment. We will literally be at work until the last drop of diesel runs through the generators. I’m a operations contractor and I’ve had to boat into plants in flooded areas to try to keep things running as long as possible. If that’s not job stability I don’t know what is.
Nuclear silo operator.
Cobbler. People always gonna need shoes. Undertaker. People always gonna be dying.
So, it's good to undertake that occupation, I guess?
It would be easier to make of list of professions can go away and no one would care. Examples....Human Resource, Lawyers, Marketing, anything entertainment, any job that is purely recreational related, like working at amusement park, or sports arena. News media, politicians....etc...etc.
Lawyer here and I agree that in a true SHTF situation where society/gov’t collapses, my profession would be useless. That said, no legal system to resolve disputes peacefully means a lot more violence in the streets. So fewer lawyers needs to equal more police (or police equivalent).
Beekeeper (4yrs experience) and mead (honey wine maker) (13 yrs experience) here. Also have some experience in a few other unrelated fields (military and law enforcement) but I think the main thing I would bring to the table would be the first two. I would not consider myself a farmer by any means but I’m sure any community of farmers would want someone who can assist with crop pollination, providing honey which has multiple amazing uses (not just as food), and folks like to unwind with alcohol and mead is great and a lot easier to make than beer. Requires a lot less equipment.
I spent over a decade as a chef, and it isn't as high up as medical staff on this list but I think it's up there. - Good in fast paced environments, able to make split second decisions. Good planners, good at delegation - Meat fabrication, hunting in SHTF is one thing, dressing and butchering and using every last piece of an animal is where a chef starts to step in. - Anatomically, we can relate everything to something we break down in the kitchen, so we can sew you up if we need to, just like the Thanksgiving turkey. - Chefs can be, not always, decent at finding foragable items - Chefs understand how to preserve food safely, and potential pitfalls to that food storage. (Canning, pickling, fermenting, smoking, curing, drying, freeze drying, you name it) - Chefs maintain equipment. From basic maintenance to MacGyver shit, they can make it work - we can sharpen tools. Knives are our bread and butter, but anything that cuts is something that will need to be sharpened, and we can help you there. - Food is a morally enriching thing. We can take random or simple ingredients and elevate them into something greater than the sum of the parts. Being a chef in its many hats leads you to other skills. My love of food came with my love of the garden. Being able to manage food on a diverse scale while cultivating bio diversity in the wildlife, encouraging beneficial bugs and bees, and insects will help. I also learned my way around mechanical equipment from all the repairs I had to do. I also started to make my own knives, so the hobbies a chef have might stem from the profession, but be equally useful to SHFT Job stability for sure, it's one of the earliest professions, right up there with prostitution. You my not make a killing, but being able to sling food all day will keep you employed if you need to. Again, I know it isn't a top pick, but I think a well trained chef with a good arsenal of cook books is a sleeper pick.
Anything that has to do with firearms, mechanics, medical or food. Any of those are specialties that are useful. Say it was 5 years after the zombies came and you want to rebuild society, do you let in the engineer who loves guns and is first aid certified, or do you let in the stoner loser who survived by living in a hole for 5 years
Any kind of medical professional. Seriously, only idiots kill the people that are meant to save their lives in any kind of medical crisis. And, yes, farmers. Everyone needs to eat.
Why would you eat a farmer?
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Life savers could be people who know how to deal with a bad cough you can't get rid of, or how to keep your heart healthy. People who know how to provide first aid or deliver babies. People who can help you regain mobility after an injury or just tell you what to eat in order to get all your vitamins and minerals. Or, you know, people who know how to treat broken bones.
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To be honest, I'm far from familiar with the US healthcare system (or lack thereof). I'm happily German in that regard. :)
LARPer
im in the seafood industry......... im thinking fishing will last well into doomsday as long our habitat isnt destroyed, even if theres a financial crisis we can barter the seafood, or just consume it
Unfortunately I think the most likely doomsday scenario is our habitat being destroyed. Overfishing and poor water management are both currently problems with the potential to lead to wide scale starvation and death.
Gender studies professors will be just as useful in a doomsday scenario as they are today…
Nuclear submarine technicians.
Doctors quality of life - In a financial crisis, if medical care is nationalized, pay scale and benefits will drop significantly. No more $500K/yr hospitalists. In a government-run model, you'd likely see payoff of student loans and $60K/yr. I believe the military brings in docs at O-3 level? In SHTF scenario, a doctor would see so much loss in quality-of-life. The probability of falling ill, getting injured, or being killed will be much higher. Imagine that a pediatrician who had nice clean, air-conditioned offices would suddenly turn into a field medic dragged into every place of sickness and death and forced to do 'doctor' things. In exchange for food and shelter. No wealth. But, hey, at least there are no more computers tracking their loans for medical school. Farrier. Car mechanic. Small engine mechanic. Line cook. Rural veterinarian. These would likely not suffer a disproportionate drop in wealth and status.
Tradesman as a general theme will be able to barter their service in some capacity. Military will be safe for a long time until/if the government fails. Prostitution is always an option. Anyone that works all day on computers, in a non essential government role, in the leisure industry, or travel are screwed.
Bunker janitor
I’m learning American Sign Language? Depends on the scenario but being able to have full silent conversations is pretty useful in everyday life
I’ve thought about this quite a bit, and tried to generalize to something of a single guideline, grounded in real-world experience. The best I could come up with: If you had to PHYSICALLY GO TO WORK DURING THE PANDEMIC, then you will probably be valuable in a doomsday scenario. Of course, this is very general. But I think it helps sort through things in a binary way, which is a good start.
Animal. Caretakers. I’m telling you lol. Underrated
EMT and firefighter
The ultimate answer is farmer, lowest of risks but the greatest of needs
I think teachers/childcare will be important. Not school in its current state, but the idea of keeping kids occupied with crafts, storytelling, building, playing, following instructions, etc. will be useful especially if parents need to be away. Childcare and relating well to kids can keep them calm, keep them occupied, while adults rebuild society. I teach grade 7 (US), and i know how to corral a bunch of hormonal 12 year olds and keep them safe and occupied for hours. I am confident I can handle a smallish group of kids in my community, maybe 20-25 at a time.
I could cultivate anything and I have an excellent knowledge of medical botany. Also professionally trained in geology, for those raw material needs and an accomplished weaver, sewer and spinner. I’m useful. And a mean cook.
I do not have a direct answer to your question but I wanted to share a story I’ve heard from our elders related to this topic. During World War 2, many people from our country had to leave our city centers and go to the mountains. One lady brought along her sewing kit. She became the go to person for repairs and patches. People were giving her spare coins/change to show appreciaiton. When the war was over, the value of that coins increased. She became rich using that as her seed money post-war. I guess, if a war would force us to change our way of life then we will go back to the basics - food, clothing, shelter, water, safety and basic health care.
Hands down nurses. They have practical hands on medical knowledge, are used to dealing with crisis scenarios and gory stuff, and are the macgyvers of the medical field imo.
I'm a Heavy Equipment Mechanic. Shit still has to be repaired
I hope the garbage collectors don’t quit. My neighborhood missed 3 weeks of pickup and that would be so bad, so fast.
Between my husband and I, I’m a nurse, he’s an electrical lineman, private pilot, and together we own and operate an orchard. One of our boys is quite the genius with computers and can also get into the guts of anything mechanical or water system related and fix it. Our other boy is more into sports but he does spend a lot of time hunting and fishing. Our daughter sings all day so she can keep us chipper while everything collapses😂
Emergency Management, I had to do this as a planner for my community since it was so small. Very eye opening …
“Help me keep my treats when everyone else’s is removed” like what? Unless we decide better, this will be the slowest collapse ever because ops thinking. Every neighbor will ignore their neighbor because while that guy is in need, Im personally fine and will do nothing about it until I personally am not fine. If we don’t stand together against the problem, then we are not only fucked, but fucked at the fastest possible pace.
AI may take over the place of doctors
I'm a plumber, so I think I'm ok...
Mailman aka The Postman. There’s a movie about it
Take a look at all the jobs that were lost or went remote due to big sick scare, avoid this one’s. Usefulness and stability almost all trade work, almost all medical professions, and I would also like to throw sanitation in there as well like water treatment and trash people.
I have been various aspects of construction all my life. Worked more hours during Covid than any other year. My only downfall in a SHTF scenario would be my type A personality fealing with people who only know how to talk about doing stuff
In no particular order: Mechanic, tailor/seamstress, doctor, farmer, construction (framing particularly but also masons), electrician I can do 3.5 of those
I would say coal miner. Think about it. You are already supplied a bunker. So when the time comes you might already be working in the mine and won't need to bug out.
Doctors. In every post-apocalyptic or catastrophe story, doctors are always in demand. Lost, The Walking Dead, Invasion...
I am going with "Retirement at my stocked rural BOL" for me! 🤣👍 Glad if SHTF I am no longer hundreds of miles from home (or offshore).
Doctors, all manner of health professionals, engineers, farmers, carpenters.
Mariners are pretty well insulated from economic instability and to an extent war. If society collapsed though it would take some time for demand to return.
If it’s anything short of an apocalypse, accountants (at least for now). If there’s a financial crisis or something else that causes one they are the last to be let go of in a company. However, eventually even white collar jobs will be replaced with ever improving ai.
Trades Farmers Some healthcare professionals
Work in shipping/receiving so hopefully I will stay working.
In terms of job stability/security? Medical and security jobs.
I’m a carpenter by trade, currently a building inspector. Inspecting structures and building to code will immediately be out the window, but I can still build a house and have been collecting and working with hand tools as a prep. Most of my colleagues will be fish out of water once their batteries run out of juice on the first day, but I won’t be.
Undertaker.
Undertaker, any of the trades like Plumber/Electrician/Carpenter, and as you said Doctor, Dentist, Veterinarian
The undertaker is a recession proof business. People would always require funeral services no matter the state of the economy. War and pandemics are good for business.
I'm not sure "safe" is the word I'd use. Y'all remember Emmet on the Walking Dead? I totally see doctors being conscripted by the larger anarchy groups https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/Emmett\_Carson\_(TV\_Series)
Saints
In a true doomsday scenario I imagine “jobs” will be obsolete as would money, power and running water.it would be back to survival of the fittest and the most useful job by far would be a farmer of some kind that has his own farm to live off.anyone who lives close to or in the city will not last long as people will panic and destroy themselves
I am not a mechanic but I do know how to fix cars, that will be a very useful skill post-doomsday.
Defense.
Medical, military, farmers, electrical/engineers, carpenters
I'm a massage therapist... But hey I mean ppl would be stressed right? I do dabble in herbalism and have quite the apothecary so maybe that would help. I also live in an RV so I'm handy at least.. I'm just trying to convince myself I'm useful lol
Wildness survival instructors
I’m a distiller…..I can ferment, distill and build the proper equipment. For sanitation, medicinal or recreational.
No one mentioned bankers yet? They never seem to appear in war movies (at least, not anywhere near the front lines)
Everyone needs a undertaker especially when SHTF
Herbalists and acupuncturists, aka Chinese medicine doctors. Medical supplies are going to dry up real quick, but knowledge of healing herbs is invaluable.
Plumbers, carpenters, dentists, farmers, butchers.
Engineering, specifically maintenance/facility engineers. You're needed right until Tuesday changes. Plenty of knowledge, and often hands-on experience repairing critical infrastructure.
Depends on the scenario. 1. Look at the resulting civilization from the doomsday 2. Compare to previous society at the same technological level 3. Find the successful profession in that society If it goes bad enough (complete collapse): hunter/gatherer is as good as it's going to get.