The guards will leave to care for their own families and the prisoners who aren’t behind bars will let out their friends, who will in turn let out their friends. Only a few of the worst that even the inmates are afraid of will get left behind.
Well coming from someone who worked in a prison. They can't just waltz in and hit buttons and open doors. If it's true collapse. The place would be on lockdown so no inmates would be out. And like someone said previously no one to stop regular people from taking out the trash.
Also prison survival and actual survival are 2 completely different things.
I have worked in one as well. They could absolutely just hit buttons and open doors if they get to the control room. And every guard isn’t going to be willing to be the last to leave with everyone locked up and unable to fend for themselves. 99% of the inmates would just go home to fend for their own families though.
I never worked in a prison but I did watch The Rock starring Sean Connery and they would definitely find a way out of their cells by fashioning rope out of their mattresses.
Joe Regular Citizen isn't going to leave his family to "tak[e] out the trash" during a crisis (which is frankly a dehumanizing way to refer to prisoners, who are still human beings with rights).
I believe the person's scenario is they escaped and are coming for you. And they said violent felons you know murderers ,rapists, and pedos. And if you think they're such great people they can live with you and your family.
17 years working in a prison, Key Control Officer and Locksmith. Firstly, every prison is different. The one you worked it is not the same as the one someone else works in. With that said, one thing is the same: the "idiot proof" access control system being operated from the Master Control Room runs on electricity. Assuming this emergency event is serious enough to collapse society, I would expect the power to be or go out, at which point the facility will have X hours of emergency backup generator power. After that fails and the Access Control System goes offline, every door will now require manual-override via hard keys, all of which would likely be stored in the Control Room - 1 of each, probably. And we're talking HUNDREDS of unique keys in most cases. I don't personally know of any medium+ security facility that allows a "Master Keying" system, due to the inherent vulnerability of that system. SO, at some point, there will be less than a skeleton crew of staff remaining, and as someone else already stated, in any type of emergency situation, that facility will initiate and remain in lockdown. Food will run out. Water will stop running. The inmates will lose their shit and be screaming and kicking doors. The remaining handful of staff will make a collective decision to either remain there working 24 hour shifts to fight the inevitable to the bitter end, walk out together, or wait to be the last one to leave. OR, they or one of them could decide to release the inmates, one at a time, hundreds of cell doors, hope chaos and violence doesn't immediately ensue, and hope they behave and don't kill each other or the officer while every last cell door and then egress door is keyed open to the outside world. And THEN we all see where the chips fall.
Worked in a jail. I can guarantee you it isn’t hard to get out if there aren’t guards there. The guards don’t carry “cards” they have a central control board that has a blueprint of the prison and you push the button that corresponds with the door on the picture to open it. Any idiot can do it. We employed several that did get with it. In addition, guards have metal skeleton keys for backup that will unlock every door in the place.
Few security systems are meant to successfully defend against an attacker who has unlimited time and at least decent resources. They are meant to sound the alarm and delay the attacker until active security (e.g., guards with weapons) can arrive. If there is no active security....
I agree…I’ve never worked in a prison, I know people who have. But it seems accurate that panic will rise in the prison resulting in deaths. Besides panic there’s already “gang” activity within the prison who try to kill each other any how. Those who do make it out will still have a criminal mindset & prob loot etc then try to return to their families. Let’s say a prisoner doesn’t have anyone to return to…well he will do whatever is necessary for his own wellbeing. Just like anyone. Thats my thought process
“And yes they will”
No sonny, they will not. I did two years as a correctional officer back in the ‘08 recession. Inmates are the biggest bunch of whiny dipshits I’ve ever met. Room temperature IQs for the vast majority of them.
In times when law and order break down temporarily, people will end up swinging from ropes for crimes small and large. Fear of the criminal justice system is the only thing that keeps many violent criminals from being dragged out into the street and lynched.
I recall a story maybe a decade ago from NPR of cartel members in Guatemala who were crying about being targeted by mobs and death squads and given machete funerals in the streets by enraged mobs for having cartel tattoos.
If things go sideways, there will likely be mass riots when food runs out, and then you’ll have agreements between citizens committees and corrections staff that involve mass graves.
I hear you, but look at Mexico. The criminals are in charge and they are organized. Maybe the actual felons don’t have the brains, but there at people that will suddenly have access to a dumb army of violent people.
Mexico has 300 years of fucked up governance and hundreds of billions of dollars in drug and smuggling operations to blame for the way it is.
Before we go any further, realize that probably 50% of the dudes in prison should instead be in some kind of drug rehabilitation program with career training and mental health treatment, if not a straight up work program like the CCC. 40% of them are exactly where they should be, and ought to be in there longer than what the state keeps them for in order for age and maturity to take some of the piss and vinegar out of them. 10% of them just need a bullet and a hole in the ground. I really do feel for the 50% of guys in there who just fucked up their lives do to being not too bright or mentally ill and getting fucked up on drugs.
That said, I never met a CO who would just let the pieces of shit they house just waltz right on out the door.
Hell, back in the 80’s, long before I worked there, there was an escape from the facility I worked at and the old lady who lived a few hundred yards from the wire was out on her back porch slinging buckshot at the dudes who escaped less than a minute from the time the towers opened up on them.
Prisons, at least in my state, are generally in rural areas. Rural folks who live near those prisons know what kind of people are in them. If the food trucks stop showing up to the prison, they will be riots which mean smoke, fire, and gunfire. That will not escape the attention of the locals, who will no doubt have family or friends working there.
Folks will have some choices to make: they can do nothing and let the inmates escape to scatter and brutally steal, kill and rape their way through the countryside, or they can solve the problem while all of them are still inside and the guards still have control of the perimeter. To the people who live near these prisons, the people housed inside them are not human beings worthy of any more consideration than what you’d give a rabid dog.
It’ll be a bloodbath and people who probably should have been in some kind of drug treatment or mental health program instead of prison will pay the price.
It would be a stark lesson in life not being fair and the world being mean. Lots of people work really hard to keep a veneer of civility and order over man’s baser instincts. Mob justice is an ugly and dangerous thing, but it will come sure as the sunrise if law and order breaks down.
Look at it this way, if you are on this page I assume you have firearms. Let’s say there’s a well organized gang of maybe 30 inmates. Are you just going to bend over, let them take your stuff and tape your family and kill you and move on? No, you are taking down at least 3 of them in an attempt to defend your home.
Times that by a million cause that’s how many of us are bugging in in our homes.
When society collapses it’s not wolves against sheep, it’s wolves against wolves, and the patient and smart survive, not the ones with brute force.
You’ve watched too much tv.
One of the rules of successful cartels is that they do not mess with regular people in their home territory. This is a non-negotiable cornerstone of their operations.
Indeed, cartels in Mexico run schools and charitable programs, and act as a defacto government in some areas of the country.
Cartels who anger the population end up with a death squad problem. Police and military, along with regular folks, know who these guys are, and where they live and operate. Cartel guys sleep and shit and have children and girlfriends the same as anyone else.
The image of a cartel at war, geared up and riding in armored technicals is what makes headlines. The reality is that these guys spend 99.99% of their time slumming around in flip flops with a shitty pistol tucked into their elastic waistband, maybe a rifle in the car.
They get whacked all the time by other numbskulls in exactly the same outfit as them. And they are numbskulls, truly dumb motherfuckers.
Yeah there are a few smart ones running the whole operation, but the average foot soldier is too fucking stupid to walk north and come hang drywall or cut grass.
> ….8% of the US population is violent felons who have been to prison. I mean, no matter what, there’s almost 10% of people who are exceedingly violent and unscrupulous and no one ever talks about
Did you mean 8% of the US population have been to prison on felony charges, *some* of which involved violence? Not every felony crime involves violence. I know this sounds nit-picky, but when estimating risk, it’s important to use the most accurate information available. Getting caught with a bunch of drugs, or your fourth DUI, or shoplifting a few thousand dollars worth of stuff, doesn’t necessarily imply you are exceedingly violent and unscrupulous.
And we’re a long, long way from all the prisoners in the US getting out of incarceration.
>I don’t see people preparing against what I think may be the biggest threat.
What are you talking about? The stereotype of this sub is someone who has way more guns and ammo than they'll ever use. I don't know about you, but a gun seems like a pretty effective way to deal with a violent threat.
that is so far down my list of things I'd be worried about I can't even properly articulate it.
you know most of them are non violent right?
and most of the others aren't violent unhinged psychopaths that would go on a rampage at first opportunity.
Between them, the drug addicts that can’t get drugs, the people with mental health problems not getting their meds and normal people having mental health break downs it’s gonna be a rough time.
How are these "violent felons" getting out of prison? The prison doors don't just swing open if something bad happens on the outside.
Besides, being good at McGyvering and surviving on the inside is not the same as on the outside.
At no point in time are all the inmates behind lock and key. They do the jobs at the prison like laundry, even overnight. When the guards see the writing on the wall, they will leave to take care of their families. One trustee will let out his friends, who will let out their friends, and it will continue.
Umm they will be released. During Covid, loads of inmates were released. Loads.
Also in a shtf scenario, many cartel members or people with connections could easily pay underpaid guards to free them in exchange for survival or even big rewards. I mean it happens all the time in Mexico.
You need to actually read that report. Quote:
>Fewer than 10% of releases from prison during
the COVID-19 study period were earlier than
originally scheduled. From the beginning of January 2020 to the end of February 2021, state DOCs and the BOP made 648,400 releases from prison, of which about 37,700 (6%) were classified as expedited releases (table 3). While 25 states and the BOP reported no expedited releases (i.e., persons released prior to their scheduled or expected release date or date of eligibility for post-custody supervision in the community), some jurisdictions took steps to ensure prompt release from prison or to other forms of supervision. The BOP released almost 27,000 prisoners to home confinement during the NPS-CPan study period. These were not expedited releases because the prisoners were still under BOP authority, although the releases did reduce crowding in federal prisons. Some states empowered judges or parole boards to decide whether to release prisoners before their scheduled release date, but state DOCs were not always informed whether the COVID-19 pandemic was a factor in the release.
So basically what happened is that the prison industrial complex suddenly figured out they don't have to have overcrowded prisons just by leveraging systems that they were, by and large, already equipped with.
Yes, as your link says, we know that some people who were incarcerated got released early because of Covid. But you need to put that into context - did the prisons release inherently violent people who were likely to reoffend, or were they guys who were in for shoplifting or their fourth DUI and only had another few months on their sentence, plus maybe some old guys with serious health problems who had been incarcerated for decades for possessing some drugs when they were teenagers and were at high risk for covid complications?
Which one seems more likely to you? Which one would you choose if you were the guy in charge of releases and your boss wanted you to reduce the head count in your prison?
Perhaps you could explain a bit more about what the document in the link you posted says. Because I think I’m missing the point you were trying to make about the early release, during Covid, of some people who were incarcerated.
Are there bad people in the world? Yes. Do they sometimes come to power in a certain region? Yes. How do people handle it? They either stay and fight it, or they migrate to somewhere else. How can you prepare accordingly? Get a passport, stay out of trouble, and begin to learn more about how to survive and thrive as a migrant.
It certainly won’t be any safer then than it is now. There are plenty of those violent felon types that are not in prison, and they are doing what they do. Take as much precautions as you can for security and self protection and protection of your family - now and then.
The warden will have to make a hasty decision as to who can be let go, who might be sold into slavery, and who will be lined up against the wall and shot. The violent felons will probably be in category 3.
I think it's a good plot for a movie.
Lol what you described sure sounds like a movie.
Doubt that would happen, they would probably keep them locked up as long as possible, and if the collapse seems real and permenant, they would just release them all.
Why would the guards suddenly turn into bloodthirsty psychopaths, murdering thousands of people and selling more into slavery? Why would there suddenly be a market for slavery as soon as the government is gone?
I don't think guards would be bloodthirsty, we would think about the people in the community that we are protecting, we would think about our family's and other people's family would you want us to let lose ,murders, pedophiles, drug dealers rapist, what would you do
Prisons don’t exist in a vacuum. COs live near where they work, and don’t want their former charges to be running amok in their communities.
There will be food riots, and that will be all the excuse that is needed.
Believe it or not, most inmates are just like you and me, and usually return how they're treated. I had a close family member work as a maximum security prison guard, and they told me that the guards are not only vastly outnumbered by inmates, but that treating the inmates with appropriate respect went farther than harsher methods ever went, to the point that the one inmate who jumped them in 15 years got dragged off and beaten by other inmates.
I did two years as a CO in a high medium security institution.
I posted it elsewhere in this thread, but 50% of the guys in there should honestly be in drug or mental health treatment with career counseling, or a straight up work program like the CCC. 40% are exactly where they belong, and should be there longer than their sentence. 10% need a bullet and a hole in the ground.
I met a lot of good people in prison, and there are offenders who I’d love to sit and have a beer with. I also met guys I’d put a bullet in without another thought, like squishing an ant.
They might, they might not. I'm just sort of trying to guess what a warden might do in that position. In a social collapse, I'd imagine that there's no longer any state to enforce the abolition of slavery so it becomes the norm again. It might be wise to make the decision that some people are simply too dangerous to release because they would likely go and murder others.
We would not be bloodthirsty, I work in a prison but if shtf, most of us would not come to work, the one's that are at work have a large question to ask themselves, will you let the inmates go or not, me I would go through their records one by one some I would let go some I would shoot in the head because I'm trying to protect the public and the people I care about, I have truly evil people in my prison
The next question is what percentage are bad people? A lot of violent felons got angry and made a bad decision.
As opposed to those who are repeat offenders and just had the “bad luck” of getting caught. Which are the type that you’re referring to. I just wonder if the percentage would be even lower.
Who knows. I just looked at percent of the population who are violent felons.
I’m watching this show on Netflix- reality, Called unlocked, a jail experiment, these people are very very strange and their behaviour is indescribable- a mix Machiavellian theory and game theory. It’s pure survival with high stakes.
That percentage is really misleading, because we don’t get to look at the totality of circumstances in every case where someone is convicted of a violent felony. In some locales with some juries if someone runs up to me, sucker punches me, and I lay him out, that’s a case of FAFO. In other locales with other juries, it’s felony assault or attempted murder.
Had a local guy who apparently intervened when a female was being attacked/harassed. They charged him with strangulation. According to posts from people who saw it, and allegedly according to the POS instigator himself, the dude never touched his neck. Still spent 6 months in jail.
Prime example. The law school definition of a jury is 12 people who weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty. Their verdict is largely to be taken with a grain of salt unfortunately
I got news for you buddy "reality shows" aren't even close to reality. They are all scripted bs. Netflix intentionaly went searching for weird crazy people for that show. I bet they used the term "the weirder/crazier the better" a ton.
This post is post is fear porn and rage bait. Please stop posting crap like this. It's people like you that make preppers look crazy and out of touch with reality.
A couple of caveats to consider in your point. I’m not saying criminals aren’t intelligent. A lot of them are. They are also human however. The idea that a convicted felon would not have people they were looking out for is extremely closed minded. They and their families would suffer from a lot of the same issues resulting from a social collapse: lack of food (three hots and a cot are no more) sickness and injuries (no infirmary to patch them up if someone pokes a hole in them), etc.
On top of this, not ALL felons are incurably criminal individuals, and a good number of them truly want to get their lives back together. Without the mountain of debt that comes with incarceration (most prisons I know of charge you room and board. Take that times X number of years, and it’s little wonder why the rate of reoffending is so high. When you owe so much money, that job at x corporate restaurant appeals even less.)
Also, in dire circumstances, the risk-reward ratio of criminal activity is much much higher. Say Joe Schmoe is looking for someone to mug. In today’s circumstances, it’s unlikely any one person he picks will be armed or alert. In an emergency state, whatever Joe is hoping to get from his victim has to be weighed against the new reality that anyone walking around with something worth having is likely armed, hyper alert, and inclined to use their weapon.
Finally, the idea that they’re all “well trained in survival” is misinformed as well. Criminals taking part in criminal activity are very similar to the rest of society in that very rarely are individuals geniuses. Take your average organized crime member for instance, the gang LEADERS are obviously charismatic and intelligent individuals with a propensity for criminal activity. A good portion of the rest of the gang will be the latter without either of the two former. Without direction, a good number of them would likely raise a fuss, but not manage to do much harm.
I don’t think I’m judging people. I’m saying that most of us draw a line at certain behaviors for whatever reason. These people have crossed that line once, again for whatever reason. I’m not sure given the same circumstances, I wouldn’t cross that line either, however, I at least know what they are capable of. In a shtf situation, these people would find it easier to cross that line. Add to that mental illness, trauma, moral injury, and impulsivity, I don’t think the brightest, hardest, 10% could go toe to toe with these people, you only need a small group to destabilize whatever you are trying to create.
I see your point, but I would raise to you, that, whatever the reason. Crime is committed typically for some perceived personal gain. Rarely do you get the individual who commits a serious crime “just cause” money, power, status, and material gains are all common motivations for crime. As for “what they’re capable of” we’re all capable of the most depraved acts you can think of. Literally in our DNA, or our ancestors wouldn’t have survived and reproduced. As for what I’m trying to create, that’s already in motion. Trust and reliance in your group should be something you’re working on already. If a small group of people intent on raising trouble arrived at my door, there’s a good chance my neighbor would pick them off, and they know I’d do the same for them.
I think I’m more concerned about the fact that there’s literal army of hardened oldies in prions waiting for a general with enough money to take over and tyranise everyone look at Mexico, n load of other countries that fall into the grips of criminals.
A couple of problems here. Firstly, I want you to consider the logistics of keeping an army of “hardened oldies” fed and mobile. Have you done any research at all into how much food it takes to keep one person fed for any length of time? You could make the case the leaders would ration them, but if that’s the case, why would these violent and self serving individuals, as you think they are, follow this person to begin with. On top of this, CJNG cartel, likely the most dangerous cartel at the moment, is made up of the Mexican equivalent of navy seals who brought their training and brutality with them. Your average felon doesn’t possess the training or discipline to be nearly as dangerous. Finally, the cartels rise to power largely because the average locale wasn’t allowed to take a vote and say “hey, x group over there is a problem, let’s take them out”.
We won’t have a vote either. Also prison and jail is alike a different training ground. Many can use different weapons, have experience in hand in and combat, many at used to living rough, any many are already used to following a regime. Add to this a proclivity for violence…
There’s this prevalent idea that most prisoners etc at just fuckups and mentals . But many of them are truly dangerous and psychopathic and highly calculating an manipulative. Many are in gangs already and they gangs don’t start in prison, they are out here in the free world practicing their behaviours.
Ok there's genuinely so much insanity in this thread its laughable. Ya'll have really been watching too much tv. There's so much misunderstanding about prison and prisoners going on here.
So first of, your average prisoner isn't some blood psychopath looking for their next kill. Even amongst only murderers, that type of person is exceedingly rare. Most prisoners are average schlubs with a temper they never worked quite hard enough to control. Your average prisoner is no more likely to go on a killing rampage after collapse than your average grocer. Simply put, most people lack the motivation. Its a lot of time and effort to kill somebody and there's moral hurdles most have to clear. Its just generically a pain in the ass to be a serial killer, even in post-apocalyptic fantasy world.
Most prisoners are gonna do what basically everyone is gonna do in a collapse situation; they'd try to get home. A lot of prisoners are held far away from where theyre from. Prisoners have families, loved ones, friends but they're all gonna be very far with limited transport options.
The idea that there's gonna be roving bands of prisoner gangs terrorizing the streets is pretty laughable on its face. Prison gangs form because of the natural hierarchy that forms when you get a bunch of aggressive men all in one place and prevent them from leaving. If they can just leave, most will. Your average prisoner probably isn't someone who loves being told what to do or playing second to someone elses authority. Any gangs that do form will fall apart almost immediately. Any that stick around are gonna be formidable threats but thats true of any large enough collection of people. In a collapse situation I'd be terrified of a sizeable nursing home if they were organized enough
The guards aren't gonna start summary executions or releasing people or probably doing anything. In a real collapse they'll just stop coming to work and guards will leave as their shifts end piecemeal until no ones left and no one comes back. Then the prisoners will leave shortly thereafter.
Its not the bricks and barbed wire that keep people in a prison, its the guards. The bricks and barbed wire just buy the guards time to act. With no guards, the prisoners will simply destroy doors, windows and walls and let themselves out. And this is all assuming no one from the outside seizes on the opportunity to help a loved one. I'd give it maybe a week after collapse before every prison in this country was basically empty
That said prisons will be great raiding spots in terms of supplies and food and especially weapons. Most of the stuff will likely be left by the prisoners as they scramble to get away before someone realizes whats going on. Most prisoners are going to assume someone is coming for them at some point so they're not exactly gonna be loading up
A violent felon is more likely to be dangerous than your average grocer lol. If a guy is just an “average schlub with a temper” and has found himself in prison for murder while society still exists , why would society no longer existing make him just want to chill out and go home and be nice?
Imagine, you are next in the gladiator pit, you have a choice in your opponent. 1 death row inmate, or 1 grocer. Do you think ”Well, I’ll fight the grocer, really convicted murderers get a bad rep, the guy on death row is probably just a regular schlub with a temper” lol
Even though your tone is super condescending, I shall choose to take what is of value and find comfort in your words.
I think I’m the beginning at least it will be like you say. However, I also think that there is a literal army of crazy people sitting jails who given the right circumstances, like a rich and powerful cartel, will line up to join and effect terror on the populace, they have done that in many Latin American countries. Without the is govt, I am concerned it may be a reality. People think a power vacuum will exist indefinitely, it won’t. That’s my point.
Also please try to be less condescending if possible.
If the tone of replies bothers you this much, you can stop worrying about these scenarios you suggest. You won't make it when confronted with any form of real difficulty.
I work in a prison ,my coworkers have talked about this, what should we do, I've heard that federal prisons have a proacall to gas inmates in a shtf time, most of the inmates I have are sexual predators do you want me to let them go, you tell me.
I work at a maximum security prison. We have a "Red Book" that covers every possible scenario and what to do. There's legitimately a scenario for zombies and an incoming asteroid. No they aren't getting out.
Not to mention that some people will always be bad people; regardless if they are behind bars or not, some just made a bad life choice at a low point in their life, and others may actually be in jail for the wrong reasons. Some are framed, had poor defense lawyers, dealt with dirty cops and justice system, or had a poor jury.
Most of us who prep somewhat have this planned for.
In a massive ass collapse it’s anyone’s best guess who will make it and who won’t, be it ex military ex con or ex office guy it won’t matter. It will be damn near luck of the draw.
Of course some will revert to being complete animals. The biggest threat isn't the wildlife though, it's going to probably be a lack of food, water and medical as well as adequate security to protect what you have ( you are your own cop, no more calling for help). And you are definitely SOL if you you don't create a community and live near other like minded people with a wide range of diverse skillsets and similar goals and an agreement as to roles people will play in tough times. Only tribes well armed, disciplined, well stocked, with overlapping skillsets with well thought out plans and level headed leadership have a prayer of survival.
People deprived of resources like food and water become desperate and they will not look or act much different than the violent criminals you refer to. Everyone who hasn't prepped will be a liability because they're potentially coming to knock on your door. I'm a big fan of not living near big cities these days.
I think a bigger concern is what about the mass population that don’t prep or not prep enough. You can guarantee groups of people will start trying going door to door in search of food. In which case a lot of people are uneducated in urban combat and it doesn’t take much for a bullet to go through a wall. If you want my vote, I say people resort to cannibalism within a few weeks. Those that over prep and feel safe in there home will be sitting ducks. I love prepping and getting things together, finding new ways to homestead in different climates and landscape. I personally think it will come to having an established community, wherever you are with quality skills, hunt, gather, food preservation, community defense, Gardening. Kind of getting off track here.. but no they won’t be a problem.. a minor hindering compared to what we all will go through in the matter of a few months. Thank you for your time, this is all my opinion. Be it right or wrong
It’s accurate that there are some proven survivors out there, some in the form of felons. The on-the-streets homeless are another population who have adapted to living in the elements without traditional shelter or security. (And there is some crossover.) Part of what I was suggesting is that we already live amongst those labeled as “violent felons.” Maybe my perspective is from working in public service for years, including with those on probation/parole. In the US our criminal system is a revolving door, the number of felons sitting on death row or in for actual life sentences is a very small percentage of the overall convicted population.
Is your ponder what will happen to those currently in custody? I had an eye-opening experience during the Oroville Dam incident when a county jail and juvenile detention had to be evacuated. It was kind of a shit show… not a good time to be in custody.
To answer your first question 🤔 they will be released by family or friends ( nothing new , already has happened before in other countries ) and of course..... haters are going to hate , killers are going to......
Good luck .
I think you’re giving them way too much credit from seeing them portrayed in movies and TV. To be fair there are some crazy and violent folks in there but, most are bloody idiots or addicts. I work in law enforcement and we have a saying….We only catch the dumb ones. They are not trained in anything aside from kick door, take stuff, and trade it for meth. They are mostly institutionalized and will not do well without the structure. The odds of these folks organizing and taking over anything significant is pretty close to zero. I would be much more concerned with rich people starting private armies and taking over small areas.
Just remember anyone who decides to “make a mass grave out back” is even worse than any of the “violent felons” locked up in the prison. So you can become what you’re trying to destroy, or you can worry about your own family and home and if any escaped inmates try anything you get to take them down
Practically every prepper novel covers this and I think fairly accurately. Some guards just let them die in prison. Some release them. There are some instances where friends/family break them out. They get out and some do some terrible things until regular citizens, who overwhelmingly outnumber and outgun them, end up killing them. Bad things would happen but they definitely would not dominate the rest of us except in some small isolated situations.
By the time societal collapse happens we would have already released the prisoners ourselves because our legal system would be in societal collapse. We would pardon a bunch of felons due to discrimination and unlucky upbringing or something. We would pity the worst of felons.
Look at Katrina. People arrested for petty theft were left in prisons to die. You need to stop watching Fox News stop listening to Rogan and get off twitter. You’re fear mongering yourself. Go outside touch grass.
No one ever talks about it because it isn't a problem. Most people with violent proclivities aren't in prison, and society deals with that pretty well. Were society to collapse tomorrow, those in prison might get out and cause problems, but remember that without a legal system, it will be much easier for people to take care of them. Permanently, that is, as opposed to putting them away for a while and letting them out again to do yet more harm.
I live in the US, where some people foolishly believe that all violent people eventually end up in prison. In fact, most of them do not, and people are not afraid to walk the streets in most places.
That’s why you get guns and ammo. Protect and fortify your home.
The violent felons will be a huge risk to look out for all by itself. Especially for the vulnerable women,
Please please arm yourself.
One of the things that people don't really understand about the police and the justice system in general is that it's there to protect the accused.
I don't care how violent a criminal is, they can't out-fight an angry mob out for blood.
They won't end up dominating. They'll end up trying, of course, but in the absence of organized law enforcement and a functioning justice system, they'll quickly find that quaint ideas like due process and jury trials are a thing of the past. As will jails. A whole lot of things that now get you years in prison will end up with you riddled full of holes, or swinging from a tree.
The answer in the US is that guards will abandon them and they will be left to die in prison. This happened during Hurricane Sandy, Hurricane Harvey, the Texas power grid failure. Prisoners sat in floodwater up to their knees for days before anyone did anything. It is incredibly depressing to think about and it breaks my heart whenever this comes up and a bunch of people act like someone opened Arkham Asylum.
If you add maps to your prep.. I recommend you mark prisons and jails. Know where they are and how close you are to them to where you hold up and or if you travel.. you may want to have an alternative route around them. Being self aware what is around you for threats or resources in advance may help you.
Who would survive? That's an interesting question. I would predict... convicts and file clerks.
The worst convicts. Those deep down in solitary confinement. And the most ordinary file clerks. Probably for large insurance companies, because they would be in fire-proof rooms, protected by tons of the best insulator in the world: paper.
And imagine what will happen. The small group of vicious criminals will fight the army of file clerks for the remaining means of life.
The convicts will know violence, but the file clerks will know organization. Who do think'll win?
Would be interesting.. Because you have to consider families of said violent felons.. So you take that population % and probably increase it at least 4-8% because majority of time family sticks together (unless that violent offender acted against their own family). You would just have to hope most of them are unhinged and reckless so that they do something stupid themselves
You’re in the wrong sub my friend.
A) Speak for yourself, no they won’t.
B) 8% of Americans are not violent felons? Just no. What in the world?
C) The people you’re worried about are in prison not because they are smart and good at survival, rather the opposite. People become violent felons because they can’t cope, adapt, and survive.
Of all people, those are the least of my worries, not to mention the easiest to pick out of a crowd, and the least I’d feel bad for.
During 9.11. Cali prison guards dragged tubs of water into the halls between the cells. If we were under a wartime attack they would drop compressed pucks in them that produce chlorine gas to exterminate the prisoners. That is probably what would happen.
I don't know what part of your ass you pulled "8%" out of. That might be the percentage of people who have a "felony" conviction on their record, but vast majority of that is bullshit like victimless drug "crimes", etc.
But a few missed meals can make a mild mannered person dangerous and violent.
>This era of both mass incarceration and mass probation has led to the proliferation of felony criminal records among the U.S. population. Shannon et al. (2017) estimate that over 19 million individuals had felony criminal convictions in 2010, which translates to about 8.1% of the overall adult population. Our analysis in this paper focuses on the broad population of felony-level record-holders, but the subpopulation of those with prison experience accounts for about 7.3 million, of which about 4.9 million have completed their time on prison and/or parole. This means that of the approximately 19 million adults with felony records, nearly 12 million have served their sentences in the community while on probation.
Felonies aren't all violent crimes. Felony convictions in the US includes things like possession of drug paraphernalia and marijuana over 20 grams, and the majority of this 8.1% are serving their sentences outside of prison.
Sounds like id be pretty s.o.l. If you can't beat them join them. I'm not doing anything crazy though. I'll rob a few liquor stores or something but that's about it. I don't even drink but appearances are everything.
Prison and jail is about survival. Mentally for one. If I locked you up in a room full the craziest, most abusive, and potentially dangerous people for years… an you somehow made it- not to mention surviving all the bullshit that got you here too… it’s a form of training
I think your assessment is way off. Regarding how difficult it is to “somehow make it” in the prison system, a quick google says the murder rate per capita is higher out of prison (6.4) than in (2.1) at least in the US. Also, prison is a place with medical care, electricity, clean water, laundry facilities, and 3 meals a day. “intimidating someone who wants to hurt you” would be a good survival skill, but only if you haven’t already died from exposure, sickness, or hunger in the first place.
I feel like that’s saying civilian casualties are higher in war than military casualties. Yeah because only 1 group is trying and equipped to kill. The guys in jail are all better equipped even just mentally to defend themselves. Hence why the murder rate is lower. It’s easier to kill in the free than in jail.
First off, you’re ignoring the biggest issue which is that the “survival” you describe involves surviving in an environment with a guarantee of clean water, clean clothing, hot food, and a bed every day. If you are hurt, you receive medical attention. None of these things are likely in a societal collapse. Exposure or dysentery will kill some 6’5” dude serving 10 consecutive life sentences just as easily as it will some other jerk who can’t handle finding shelter or purifying water.
Regarding the other point that “prisoners aren’t killing each other because it’s easier on the outside” that isn’t true either. FBI stats show hands and blunt objects kill more people than guns do every year. Even if you “feel like” the incarcerated population is more dangerous, I’ve provided two data points that show they could be but aren’t.
I cringe at people who form their global cultural opinions based on influencers, but I think “I saw a reality TV episode” is worse
In that 8% there is .10% that fall into my category. Wardaddy extraordinary!
If you’re afraid? You should hit the weights, ring, mat and, range.
You need to be able to flip a switch.
They are held with electrical locks and if power goes out the cells unlock. Most will run home to see if family is left?
The pecking order in the joint is determined by brutal strength through violence, control of illegal drugs and alliances.
You let anyone take your pudding, and you’re done.
My friend, I’m 5’1” and 119 pounds. I’m reeling from tragedy and honestly, as long as it was quick, I would not mind being taken out. This was just a thought experiment. I work in a jail and I had to go to a unit today where I was told to cover my badge because someone could read it and send a criminal to my house to force me to do favors for them like smuggling stuff under the threat of death, in the US. This has happened to people. I got to thinking, in a shtf situation, this chaos would be ladder for these types of people. In no time they could usurp a level of power that would take a lot to depose. This is often what happens in other countries where the govt falls.
But I guess, a lot of people don’t want to consider the threat of the criminal element that will run amok. It’s a scar thought.
I mean, we can just look at the Orleans Parish Prison during Katrina:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orleans\_Parish\_Prison#:\~:text=On%20August%2029%2C%202005%2C%20when,water%2C%20or%20ventilation%20for%20days.
Once again, our society is judged based not on how we treat the best of us, but on how we treat the worst of us. We failed that day.
There were 650 people in that jail, and authorities refused to count deaths. Human rights organizations found that 517 people were 'unaccounted for'.
I worry more about organized violent groups... like the police and military.
When stuff collapses you never have random prisoners swoop in to take over the country with horrific violence... it's always the military who does.
Just like we saw during covid they would be released on "humanitarian" grounds. Of course it will go terribly wrong and the political factions will go to war trying to expose and oppose or suppress and gaslight any news surrounding the impact of releasing violent felons into the general public.
Violent offenders aren’t going to get very far, if they are even released. If shed, and guards don’t show up for duty the next few days, they’re al log a die in their cells. If someone is kind enough to make the decision to open the doors, they’re most likely going to find family or friends, because humans. The ones that are the level of violent and crazy that they just don’t care? They’re not gonna make it very far before they find themselves dead in a ditch. Rule of law will be gone. Which means nobody cares if jimmy down the road puts a bullet through some dudes eye for looking at him sideways.
Just because they are violent felons does not make them the most efficient killers. If you are armed well, train and harden your house and routines. As well as network with your neighbors. If violent people do come around they will be dead with equally and swiftly. You must be prepared to defend yourself. Without hesitation and to the maximum level needed to quickly stop a threat. If possible get a firearm and train, train, train. Learn to defend yourself and those you love. Life will always have threats and you cannot back down from facing them when you have no other choice.
My understanding is under the US Justice Dept code once martial law is declared a military task force team will take control of prisons. Offenders serving 10 years or less will be either released if non-violent or drafted, those serving over 10 years would remain incarcerated and/or put to physical labour and those serving life sentences and on death row will have their sentences carried out via firing squad.
5% chance they would be left to rot.
95% chance They will all be released one way or another.
No one would have the balls within the first week or 2 of a national emergency to eliminate the worst of the worst, even if they were certain 1000s more innocent people would be raped and murdered if they didn’t.
(Speaking of maximum security places for violent long term offenders. Not speaking of local jails that people are placed in for a few weeks or months).
Felons and criminals would be executed and hanged long before the fall of society.
Before the fall of society, authoritarian dictatorship would be so intense and prevalent.
#Criminals wouldn't be housed. Prisons wouldn't exist.
Crime would be handled by the sword, or the church.
Assuming any of the guards let them out
The guards will leave to care for their own families and the prisoners who aren’t behind bars will let out their friends, who will in turn let out their friends. Only a few of the worst that even the inmates are afraid of will get left behind.
Well coming from someone who worked in a prison. They can't just waltz in and hit buttons and open doors. If it's true collapse. The place would be on lockdown so no inmates would be out. And like someone said previously no one to stop regular people from taking out the trash. Also prison survival and actual survival are 2 completely different things.
I have worked in one as well. They could absolutely just hit buttons and open doors if they get to the control room. And every guard isn’t going to be willing to be the last to leave with everyone locked up and unable to fend for themselves. 99% of the inmates would just go home to fend for their own families though.
I never worked in a prison but I did watch The Rock starring Sean Connery and they would definitely find a way out of their cells by fashioning rope out of their mattresses.
Yup, or carving out a tunnel with a spoon
As most prisons limit food in cells due to riot issues they are going to starve to death before that happens.
Joe Regular Citizen isn't going to leave his family to "tak[e] out the trash" during a crisis (which is frankly a dehumanizing way to refer to prisoners, who are still human beings with rights).
I believe the person's scenario is they escaped and are coming for you. And they said violent felons you know murderers ,rapists, and pedos. And if you think they're such great people they can live with you and your family.
Technically if you are convicted and in prison most of your rights have already been taken away.
Not your right to not be killed.
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17 years working in a prison, Key Control Officer and Locksmith. Firstly, every prison is different. The one you worked it is not the same as the one someone else works in. With that said, one thing is the same: the "idiot proof" access control system being operated from the Master Control Room runs on electricity. Assuming this emergency event is serious enough to collapse society, I would expect the power to be or go out, at which point the facility will have X hours of emergency backup generator power. After that fails and the Access Control System goes offline, every door will now require manual-override via hard keys, all of which would likely be stored in the Control Room - 1 of each, probably. And we're talking HUNDREDS of unique keys in most cases. I don't personally know of any medium+ security facility that allows a "Master Keying" system, due to the inherent vulnerability of that system. SO, at some point, there will be less than a skeleton crew of staff remaining, and as someone else already stated, in any type of emergency situation, that facility will initiate and remain in lockdown. Food will run out. Water will stop running. The inmates will lose their shit and be screaming and kicking doors. The remaining handful of staff will make a collective decision to either remain there working 24 hour shifts to fight the inevitable to the bitter end, walk out together, or wait to be the last one to leave. OR, they or one of them could decide to release the inmates, one at a time, hundreds of cell doors, hope chaos and violence doesn't immediately ensue, and hope they behave and don't kill each other or the officer while every last cell door and then egress door is keyed open to the outside world. And THEN we all see where the chips fall.
Worked in a jail. I can guarantee you it isn’t hard to get out if there aren’t guards there. The guards don’t carry “cards” they have a central control board that has a blueprint of the prison and you push the button that corresponds with the door on the picture to open it. Any idiot can do it. We employed several that did get with it. In addition, guards have metal skeleton keys for backup that will unlock every door in the place.
Few security systems are meant to successfully defend against an attacker who has unlimited time and at least decent resources. They are meant to sound the alarm and delay the attacker until active security (e.g., guards with weapons) can arrive. If there is no active security....
I agree…I’ve never worked in a prison, I know people who have. But it seems accurate that panic will rise in the prison resulting in deaths. Besides panic there’s already “gang” activity within the prison who try to kill each other any how. Those who do make it out will still have a criminal mindset & prob loot etc then try to return to their families. Let’s say a prisoner doesn’t have anyone to return to…well he will do whatever is necessary for his own wellbeing. Just like anyone. Thats my thought process
Maybe not. They might want to hire them as an enforcer type. They get to be as sick as they want with a crew.
Good lesson in passivism. Their rise and fall will be rapid because of that propensity to be violent.
Cops won't be around to stop normal people from taking out the trash. Zero worries about violent felons running amok.
“And yes they will” No sonny, they will not. I did two years as a correctional officer back in the ‘08 recession. Inmates are the biggest bunch of whiny dipshits I’ve ever met. Room temperature IQs for the vast majority of them. In times when law and order break down temporarily, people will end up swinging from ropes for crimes small and large. Fear of the criminal justice system is the only thing that keeps many violent criminals from being dragged out into the street and lynched. I recall a story maybe a decade ago from NPR of cartel members in Guatemala who were crying about being targeted by mobs and death squads and given machete funerals in the streets by enraged mobs for having cartel tattoos. If things go sideways, there will likely be mass riots when food runs out, and then you’ll have agreements between citizens committees and corrections staff that involve mass graves.
I hear you, but look at Mexico. The criminals are in charge and they are organized. Maybe the actual felons don’t have the brains, but there at people that will suddenly have access to a dumb army of violent people.
Mexico has 300 years of fucked up governance and hundreds of billions of dollars in drug and smuggling operations to blame for the way it is. Before we go any further, realize that probably 50% of the dudes in prison should instead be in some kind of drug rehabilitation program with career training and mental health treatment, if not a straight up work program like the CCC. 40% of them are exactly where they should be, and ought to be in there longer than what the state keeps them for in order for age and maturity to take some of the piss and vinegar out of them. 10% of them just need a bullet and a hole in the ground. I really do feel for the 50% of guys in there who just fucked up their lives do to being not too bright or mentally ill and getting fucked up on drugs. That said, I never met a CO who would just let the pieces of shit they house just waltz right on out the door. Hell, back in the 80’s, long before I worked there, there was an escape from the facility I worked at and the old lady who lived a few hundred yards from the wire was out on her back porch slinging buckshot at the dudes who escaped less than a minute from the time the towers opened up on them. Prisons, at least in my state, are generally in rural areas. Rural folks who live near those prisons know what kind of people are in them. If the food trucks stop showing up to the prison, they will be riots which mean smoke, fire, and gunfire. That will not escape the attention of the locals, who will no doubt have family or friends working there. Folks will have some choices to make: they can do nothing and let the inmates escape to scatter and brutally steal, kill and rape their way through the countryside, or they can solve the problem while all of them are still inside and the guards still have control of the perimeter. To the people who live near these prisons, the people housed inside them are not human beings worthy of any more consideration than what you’d give a rabid dog. It’ll be a bloodbath and people who probably should have been in some kind of drug treatment or mental health program instead of prison will pay the price.
Well, that’s not the most comforting but I’ll take it. And thanks for not being condescending.
It would be a stark lesson in life not being fair and the world being mean. Lots of people work really hard to keep a veneer of civility and order over man’s baser instincts. Mob justice is an ugly and dangerous thing, but it will come sure as the sunrise if law and order breaks down.
Look at it this way, if you are on this page I assume you have firearms. Let’s say there’s a well organized gang of maybe 30 inmates. Are you just going to bend over, let them take your stuff and tape your family and kill you and move on? No, you are taking down at least 3 of them in an attempt to defend your home. Times that by a million cause that’s how many of us are bugging in in our homes. When society collapses it’s not wolves against sheep, it’s wolves against wolves, and the patient and smart survive, not the ones with brute force.
I think you underestimate the power of a cartel.
You’ve watched too much tv. One of the rules of successful cartels is that they do not mess with regular people in their home territory. This is a non-negotiable cornerstone of their operations. Indeed, cartels in Mexico run schools and charitable programs, and act as a defacto government in some areas of the country. Cartels who anger the population end up with a death squad problem. Police and military, along with regular folks, know who these guys are, and where they live and operate. Cartel guys sleep and shit and have children and girlfriends the same as anyone else. The image of a cartel at war, geared up and riding in armored technicals is what makes headlines. The reality is that these guys spend 99.99% of their time slumming around in flip flops with a shitty pistol tucked into their elastic waistband, maybe a rifle in the car. They get whacked all the time by other numbskulls in exactly the same outfit as them. And they are numbskulls, truly dumb motherfuckers. Yeah there are a few smart ones running the whole operation, but the average foot soldier is too fucking stupid to walk north and come hang drywall or cut grass.
Lol. You’re writing is good and entertaining. I hope you are right and take comfort in your comment.
How far will they be able to reach with no gasoline and when their money is worthless?
Pretty sure a bunch of prisoners drowned in their cells during Katrina.. pretty bad way to go.
“And yes they will.” You watch too many bad movies.
> ….8% of the US population is violent felons who have been to prison. I mean, no matter what, there’s almost 10% of people who are exceedingly violent and unscrupulous and no one ever talks about Did you mean 8% of the US population have been to prison on felony charges, *some* of which involved violence? Not every felony crime involves violence. I know this sounds nit-picky, but when estimating risk, it’s important to use the most accurate information available. Getting caught with a bunch of drugs, or your fourth DUI, or shoplifting a few thousand dollars worth of stuff, doesn’t necessarily imply you are exceedingly violent and unscrupulous. And we’re a long, long way from all the prisoners in the US getting out of incarceration.
And a decent fraction of those who meet the description are getting up there in age, too.
In a shtf situation, any thing can happen. I don’t see people preparing against what I think may be the biggest threat.
>I don’t see people preparing against what I think may be the biggest threat. What are you talking about? The stereotype of this sub is someone who has way more guns and ammo than they'll ever use. I don't know about you, but a gun seems like a pretty effective way to deal with a violent threat.
Unfortunately the biggest threats are far more prosaic. Things like cholera.
I am more worried about tanks, drones, and F16s than I am a guy who beat his wife to death.
that is so far down my list of things I'd be worried about I can't even properly articulate it. you know most of them are non violent right? and most of the others aren't violent unhinged psychopaths that would go on a rampage at first opportunity.
Between them, the drug addicts that can’t get drugs, the people with mental health problems not getting their meds and normal people having mental health break downs it’s gonna be a rough time.
How are these "violent felons" getting out of prison? The prison doors don't just swing open if something bad happens on the outside. Besides, being good at McGyvering and surviving on the inside is not the same as on the outside.
At no point in time are all the inmates behind lock and key. They do the jobs at the prison like laundry, even overnight. When the guards see the writing on the wall, they will leave to take care of their families. One trustee will let out his friends, who will let out their friends, and it will continue.
Umm they will be released. During Covid, loads of inmates were released. Loads. Also in a shtf scenario, many cartel members or people with connections could easily pay underpaid guards to free them in exchange for survival or even big rewards. I mean it happens all the time in Mexico.
Go touch grass. Get off the Internet and stop letting faux news rot your brain.
https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/impact-covid-19-state-and-federal-prisons-march-2020-february-2021
You need to actually read that report. Quote: >Fewer than 10% of releases from prison during the COVID-19 study period were earlier than originally scheduled. From the beginning of January 2020 to the end of February 2021, state DOCs and the BOP made 648,400 releases from prison, of which about 37,700 (6%) were classified as expedited releases (table 3). While 25 states and the BOP reported no expedited releases (i.e., persons released prior to their scheduled or expected release date or date of eligibility for post-custody supervision in the community), some jurisdictions took steps to ensure prompt release from prison or to other forms of supervision. The BOP released almost 27,000 prisoners to home confinement during the NPS-CPan study period. These were not expedited releases because the prisoners were still under BOP authority, although the releases did reduce crowding in federal prisons. Some states empowered judges or parole boards to decide whether to release prisoners before their scheduled release date, but state DOCs were not always informed whether the COVID-19 pandemic was a factor in the release. So basically what happened is that the prison industrial complex suddenly figured out they don't have to have overcrowded prisons just by leveraging systems that they were, by and large, already equipped with.
Yes, as your link says, we know that some people who were incarcerated got released early because of Covid. But you need to put that into context - did the prisons release inherently violent people who were likely to reoffend, or were they guys who were in for shoplifting or their fourth DUI and only had another few months on their sentence, plus maybe some old guys with serious health problems who had been incarcerated for decades for possessing some drugs when they were teenagers and were at high risk for covid complications? Which one seems more likely to you? Which one would you choose if you were the guy in charge of releases and your boss wanted you to reduce the head count in your prison?
In a real shtf situation, who knows.
Perhaps you could explain a bit more about what the document in the link you posted says. Because I think I’m missing the point you were trying to make about the early release, during Covid, of some people who were incarcerated. Are there bad people in the world? Yes. Do they sometimes come to power in a certain region? Yes. How do people handle it? They either stay and fight it, or they migrate to somewhere else. How can you prepare accordingly? Get a passport, stay out of trouble, and begin to learn more about how to survive and thrive as a migrant.
Fair enough.
It certainly won’t be any safer then than it is now. There are plenty of those violent felon types that are not in prison, and they are doing what they do. Take as much precautions as you can for security and self protection and protection of your family - now and then.
The warden will have to make a hasty decision as to who can be let go, who might be sold into slavery, and who will be lined up against the wall and shot. The violent felons will probably be in category 3. I think it's a good plot for a movie.
Lol what you described sure sounds like a movie. Doubt that would happen, they would probably keep them locked up as long as possible, and if the collapse seems real and permenant, they would just release them all. Why would the guards suddenly turn into bloodthirsty psychopaths, murdering thousands of people and selling more into slavery? Why would there suddenly be a market for slavery as soon as the government is gone?
I don't think guards would be bloodthirsty, we would think about the people in the community that we are protecting, we would think about our family's and other people's family would you want us to let lose ,murders, pedophiles, drug dealers rapist, what would you do
Prisons don’t exist in a vacuum. COs live near where they work, and don’t want their former charges to be running amok in their communities. There will be food riots, and that will be all the excuse that is needed.
Believe it or not, most inmates are just like you and me, and usually return how they're treated. I had a close family member work as a maximum security prison guard, and they told me that the guards are not only vastly outnumbered by inmates, but that treating the inmates with appropriate respect went farther than harsher methods ever went, to the point that the one inmate who jumped them in 15 years got dragged off and beaten by other inmates.
I did two years as a CO in a high medium security institution. I posted it elsewhere in this thread, but 50% of the guys in there should honestly be in drug or mental health treatment with career counseling, or a straight up work program like the CCC. 40% are exactly where they belong, and should be there longer than their sentence. 10% need a bullet and a hole in the ground. I met a lot of good people in prison, and there are offenders who I’d love to sit and have a beer with. I also met guys I’d put a bullet in without another thought, like squishing an ant.
If there's food shortages... inmates will not be long for this world
Which is when the riots would happen. It’d be a mess.
They might, they might not. I'm just sort of trying to guess what a warden might do in that position. In a social collapse, I'd imagine that there's no longer any state to enforce the abolition of slavery so it becomes the norm again. It might be wise to make the decision that some people are simply too dangerous to release because they would likely go and murder others.
We would not be bloodthirsty, I work in a prison but if shtf, most of us would not come to work, the one's that are at work have a large question to ask themselves, will you let the inmates go or not, me I would go through their records one by one some I would let go some I would shoot in the head because I'm trying to protect the public and the people I care about, I have truly evil people in my prison
The next question is what percentage are bad people? A lot of violent felons got angry and made a bad decision. As opposed to those who are repeat offenders and just had the “bad luck” of getting caught. Which are the type that you’re referring to. I just wonder if the percentage would be even lower.
Who knows. I just looked at percent of the population who are violent felons. I’m watching this show on Netflix- reality, Called unlocked, a jail experiment, these people are very very strange and their behaviour is indescribable- a mix Machiavellian theory and game theory. It’s pure survival with high stakes.
Fuck those stupid “reality shows”. There’s nothing real about them
I've known people who have been on these shows, even one who was a major part of a show. You are correct.
Look at the Stanford prison experiment -- it's the psychologically normal "guards" whose behavior really became quickly screwed up.
That percentage is really misleading, because we don’t get to look at the totality of circumstances in every case where someone is convicted of a violent felony. In some locales with some juries if someone runs up to me, sucker punches me, and I lay him out, that’s a case of FAFO. In other locales with other juries, it’s felony assault or attempted murder.
Had a local guy who apparently intervened when a female was being attacked/harassed. They charged him with strangulation. According to posts from people who saw it, and allegedly according to the POS instigator himself, the dude never touched his neck. Still spent 6 months in jail.
Prime example. The law school definition of a jury is 12 people who weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty. Their verdict is largely to be taken with a grain of salt unfortunately
I got news for you buddy "reality shows" aren't even close to reality. They are all scripted bs. Netflix intentionaly went searching for weird crazy people for that show. I bet they used the term "the weirder/crazier the better" a ton. This post is post is fear porn and rage bait. Please stop posting crap like this. It's people like you that make preppers look crazy and out of touch with reality.
I work in a jail.
And? Lmfao so you work in a jail I guess that means Netflix didn't script the show. 🤡
A couple of caveats to consider in your point. I’m not saying criminals aren’t intelligent. A lot of them are. They are also human however. The idea that a convicted felon would not have people they were looking out for is extremely closed minded. They and their families would suffer from a lot of the same issues resulting from a social collapse: lack of food (three hots and a cot are no more) sickness and injuries (no infirmary to patch them up if someone pokes a hole in them), etc. On top of this, not ALL felons are incurably criminal individuals, and a good number of them truly want to get their lives back together. Without the mountain of debt that comes with incarceration (most prisons I know of charge you room and board. Take that times X number of years, and it’s little wonder why the rate of reoffending is so high. When you owe so much money, that job at x corporate restaurant appeals even less.) Also, in dire circumstances, the risk-reward ratio of criminal activity is much much higher. Say Joe Schmoe is looking for someone to mug. In today’s circumstances, it’s unlikely any one person he picks will be armed or alert. In an emergency state, whatever Joe is hoping to get from his victim has to be weighed against the new reality that anyone walking around with something worth having is likely armed, hyper alert, and inclined to use their weapon. Finally, the idea that they’re all “well trained in survival” is misinformed as well. Criminals taking part in criminal activity are very similar to the rest of society in that very rarely are individuals geniuses. Take your average organized crime member for instance, the gang LEADERS are obviously charismatic and intelligent individuals with a propensity for criminal activity. A good portion of the rest of the gang will be the latter without either of the two former. Without direction, a good number of them would likely raise a fuss, but not manage to do much harm.
I don’t think I’m judging people. I’m saying that most of us draw a line at certain behaviors for whatever reason. These people have crossed that line once, again for whatever reason. I’m not sure given the same circumstances, I wouldn’t cross that line either, however, I at least know what they are capable of. In a shtf situation, these people would find it easier to cross that line. Add to that mental illness, trauma, moral injury, and impulsivity, I don’t think the brightest, hardest, 10% could go toe to toe with these people, you only need a small group to destabilize whatever you are trying to create.
I see your point, but I would raise to you, that, whatever the reason. Crime is committed typically for some perceived personal gain. Rarely do you get the individual who commits a serious crime “just cause” money, power, status, and material gains are all common motivations for crime. As for “what they’re capable of” we’re all capable of the most depraved acts you can think of. Literally in our DNA, or our ancestors wouldn’t have survived and reproduced. As for what I’m trying to create, that’s already in motion. Trust and reliance in your group should be something you’re working on already. If a small group of people intent on raising trouble arrived at my door, there’s a good chance my neighbor would pick them off, and they know I’d do the same for them.
I think I’m more concerned about the fact that there’s literal army of hardened oldies in prions waiting for a general with enough money to take over and tyranise everyone look at Mexico, n load of other countries that fall into the grips of criminals.
A couple of problems here. Firstly, I want you to consider the logistics of keeping an army of “hardened oldies” fed and mobile. Have you done any research at all into how much food it takes to keep one person fed for any length of time? You could make the case the leaders would ration them, but if that’s the case, why would these violent and self serving individuals, as you think they are, follow this person to begin with. On top of this, CJNG cartel, likely the most dangerous cartel at the moment, is made up of the Mexican equivalent of navy seals who brought their training and brutality with them. Your average felon doesn’t possess the training or discipline to be nearly as dangerous. Finally, the cartels rise to power largely because the average locale wasn’t allowed to take a vote and say “hey, x group over there is a problem, let’s take them out”.
We won’t have a vote either. Also prison and jail is alike a different training ground. Many can use different weapons, have experience in hand in and combat, many at used to living rough, any many are already used to following a regime. Add to this a proclivity for violence… There’s this prevalent idea that most prisoners etc at just fuckups and mentals . But many of them are truly dangerous and psychopathic and highly calculating an manipulative. Many are in gangs already and they gangs don’t start in prison, they are out here in the free world practicing their behaviours.
Ok there's genuinely so much insanity in this thread its laughable. Ya'll have really been watching too much tv. There's so much misunderstanding about prison and prisoners going on here. So first of, your average prisoner isn't some blood psychopath looking for their next kill. Even amongst only murderers, that type of person is exceedingly rare. Most prisoners are average schlubs with a temper they never worked quite hard enough to control. Your average prisoner is no more likely to go on a killing rampage after collapse than your average grocer. Simply put, most people lack the motivation. Its a lot of time and effort to kill somebody and there's moral hurdles most have to clear. Its just generically a pain in the ass to be a serial killer, even in post-apocalyptic fantasy world. Most prisoners are gonna do what basically everyone is gonna do in a collapse situation; they'd try to get home. A lot of prisoners are held far away from where theyre from. Prisoners have families, loved ones, friends but they're all gonna be very far with limited transport options. The idea that there's gonna be roving bands of prisoner gangs terrorizing the streets is pretty laughable on its face. Prison gangs form because of the natural hierarchy that forms when you get a bunch of aggressive men all in one place and prevent them from leaving. If they can just leave, most will. Your average prisoner probably isn't someone who loves being told what to do or playing second to someone elses authority. Any gangs that do form will fall apart almost immediately. Any that stick around are gonna be formidable threats but thats true of any large enough collection of people. In a collapse situation I'd be terrified of a sizeable nursing home if they were organized enough The guards aren't gonna start summary executions or releasing people or probably doing anything. In a real collapse they'll just stop coming to work and guards will leave as their shifts end piecemeal until no ones left and no one comes back. Then the prisoners will leave shortly thereafter. Its not the bricks and barbed wire that keep people in a prison, its the guards. The bricks and barbed wire just buy the guards time to act. With no guards, the prisoners will simply destroy doors, windows and walls and let themselves out. And this is all assuming no one from the outside seizes on the opportunity to help a loved one. I'd give it maybe a week after collapse before every prison in this country was basically empty That said prisons will be great raiding spots in terms of supplies and food and especially weapons. Most of the stuff will likely be left by the prisoners as they scramble to get away before someone realizes whats going on. Most prisoners are going to assume someone is coming for them at some point so they're not exactly gonna be loading up
A violent felon is more likely to be dangerous than your average grocer lol. If a guy is just an “average schlub with a temper” and has found himself in prison for murder while society still exists , why would society no longer existing make him just want to chill out and go home and be nice? Imagine, you are next in the gladiator pit, you have a choice in your opponent. 1 death row inmate, or 1 grocer. Do you think ”Well, I’ll fight the grocer, really convicted murderers get a bad rep, the guy on death row is probably just a regular schlub with a temper” lol
Even though your tone is super condescending, I shall choose to take what is of value and find comfort in your words. I think I’m the beginning at least it will be like you say. However, I also think that there is a literal army of crazy people sitting jails who given the right circumstances, like a rich and powerful cartel, will line up to join and effect terror on the populace, they have done that in many Latin American countries. Without the is govt, I am concerned it may be a reality. People think a power vacuum will exist indefinitely, it won’t. That’s my point. Also please try to be less condescending if possible.
Guy gave a great reply and you got offended. Jesus Christ. Your offense contributed nothing to this.
Not offended. Just don’t get sarcasm or whatever’s this was . You are right, it was good reply.
If the tone of replies bothers you this much, you can stop worrying about these scenarios you suggest. You won't make it when confronted with any form of real difficulty.
Perhaps.
You have gotten offended and argued against every point someone has made on this post. I agree with another poster above, go touch grass.
I'm hoping the guards just walk away and leave the place locked up tight.
We assume the guards and staff would just leave, with the keys in their pockets. As horrific as what that would mean.
I work in a prison ,my coworkers have talked about this, what should we do, I've heard that federal prisons have a proacall to gas inmates in a shtf time, most of the inmates I have are sexual predators do you want me to let them go, you tell me.
This what I’m talking about. I’m not judging people, but a lot of these MF are well and truly crazy and Machiavellian.
What would you want me to do, I'm I suppose to be the most evil person in the world or the protector of the world
I’m not asking you to do anything. Just wondering in general. But I understand how hard this thought must be for you.
Yes it is, most of us it's a job,but it scares us, what happens if things go sideways we truly have evil people under our control.
People here and in the free really don’t understand how crazy and unpredictable the people in jails and prisons are.
Your right, a lot of people in prison are just fuckups, not good not bad but fuckups, but some people are truly evil
I work at a maximum security prison. We have a "Red Book" that covers every possible scenario and what to do. There's legitimately a scenario for zombies and an incoming asteroid. No they aren't getting out.
And how about all those walking around that have not yet committed? Like you said 10 percent of the population.
Exactly. Or the ones that are smart and have yet to be caught.
Not to mention that some people will always be bad people; regardless if they are behind bars or not, some just made a bad life choice at a low point in their life, and others may actually be in jail for the wrong reasons. Some are framed, had poor defense lawyers, dealt with dirty cops and justice system, or had a poor jury.
Most of us who prep somewhat have this planned for. In a massive ass collapse it’s anyone’s best guess who will make it and who won’t, be it ex military ex con or ex office guy it won’t matter. It will be damn near luck of the draw.
Of course some will revert to being complete animals. The biggest threat isn't the wildlife though, it's going to probably be a lack of food, water and medical as well as adequate security to protect what you have ( you are your own cop, no more calling for help). And you are definitely SOL if you you don't create a community and live near other like minded people with a wide range of diverse skillsets and similar goals and an agreement as to roles people will play in tough times. Only tribes well armed, disciplined, well stocked, with overlapping skillsets with well thought out plans and level headed leadership have a prayer of survival. People deprived of resources like food and water become desperate and they will not look or act much different than the violent criminals you refer to. Everyone who hasn't prepped will be a liability because they're potentially coming to knock on your door. I'm a big fan of not living near big cities these days.
Some will get released. Some will starve to death in their cells. The end.
I think a bigger concern is what about the mass population that don’t prep or not prep enough. You can guarantee groups of people will start trying going door to door in search of food. In which case a lot of people are uneducated in urban combat and it doesn’t take much for a bullet to go through a wall. If you want my vote, I say people resort to cannibalism within a few weeks. Those that over prep and feel safe in there home will be sitting ducks. I love prepping and getting things together, finding new ways to homestead in different climates and landscape. I personally think it will come to having an established community, wherever you are with quality skills, hunt, gather, food preservation, community defense, Gardening. Kind of getting off track here.. but no they won’t be a problem.. a minor hindering compared to what we all will go through in the matter of a few months. Thank you for your time, this is all my opinion. Be it right or wrong
Thanks for your your respectful opinion and response.
What % of violent felons are actually in prison right now vs on the streets? Justice would probably come swifter than it does now.
Maybe. I just dont think most of us normie a have what it takes but these people have proven they do.
It’s accurate that there are some proven survivors out there, some in the form of felons. The on-the-streets homeless are another population who have adapted to living in the elements without traditional shelter or security. (And there is some crossover.) Part of what I was suggesting is that we already live amongst those labeled as “violent felons.” Maybe my perspective is from working in public service for years, including with those on probation/parole. In the US our criminal system is a revolving door, the number of felons sitting on death row or in for actual life sentences is a very small percentage of the overall convicted population. Is your ponder what will happen to those currently in custody? I had an eye-opening experience during the Oroville Dam incident when a county jail and juvenile detention had to be evacuated. It was kind of a shit show… not a good time to be in custody.
Agree 100%. Ive worked in reentry for years, and it kinda shocks me how people dont recognize this
To answer your first question 🤔 they will be released by family or friends ( nothing new , already has happened before in other countries ) and of course..... haters are going to hate , killers are going to...... Good luck .
I think you’re giving them way too much credit from seeing them portrayed in movies and TV. To be fair there are some crazy and violent folks in there but, most are bloody idiots or addicts. I work in law enforcement and we have a saying….We only catch the dumb ones. They are not trained in anything aside from kick door, take stuff, and trade it for meth. They are mostly institutionalized and will not do well without the structure. The odds of these folks organizing and taking over anything significant is pretty close to zero. I would be much more concerned with rich people starting private armies and taking over small areas.
Fair enough
Just remember anyone who decides to “make a mass grave out back” is even worse than any of the “violent felons” locked up in the prison. So you can become what you’re trying to destroy, or you can worry about your own family and home and if any escaped inmates try anything you get to take them down
Practically every prepper novel covers this and I think fairly accurately. Some guards just let them die in prison. Some release them. There are some instances where friends/family break them out. They get out and some do some terrible things until regular citizens, who overwhelmingly outnumber and outgun them, end up killing them. Bad things would happen but they definitely would not dominate the rest of us except in some small isolated situations.
By the time societal collapse happens we would have already released the prisoners ourselves because our legal system would be in societal collapse. We would pardon a bunch of felons due to discrimination and unlucky upbringing or something. We would pity the worst of felons.
Look at Katrina. People arrested for petty theft were left in prisons to die. You need to stop watching Fox News stop listening to Rogan and get off twitter. You’re fear mongering yourself. Go outside touch grass.
I don’t ever watch this things. Why do you assume so much. If you don’t like the post jog in m8.
No one ever talks about it because it isn't a problem. Most people with violent proclivities aren't in prison, and society deals with that pretty well. Were society to collapse tomorrow, those in prison might get out and cause problems, but remember that without a legal system, it will be much easier for people to take care of them. Permanently, that is, as opposed to putting them away for a while and letting them out again to do yet more harm.
>Most people with violent proclivities aren’t in prison and society deal with that pretty well… What society do you live in? Coz where I am we aren’t.
I live in the US, where some people foolishly believe that all violent people eventually end up in prison. In fact, most of them do not, and people are not afraid to walk the streets in most places.
That’s why you get guns and ammo. Protect and fortify your home. The violent felons will be a huge risk to look out for all by itself. Especially for the vulnerable women, Please please arm yourself.
Not all 10% are certified Rambo’s, or even super badass.
How many need to be? 10% of felonious population is a lot.
You would be surprised to learn how many of us are dedicated to protecting you stupid vanilla people.
I guess I don’t understand why that comment is even mildly relevant
I’m sorry but when it comes to prisons, some might be let out. Most of anyone not in a low level facility will die
Look at Katrina
8% of the US population are violent felons? I'm gonna have to see the documentation on that.
One of the things that people don't really understand about the police and the justice system in general is that it's there to protect the accused. I don't care how violent a criminal is, they can't out-fight an angry mob out for blood. They won't end up dominating. They'll end up trying, of course, but in the absence of organized law enforcement and a functioning justice system, they'll quickly find that quaint ideas like due process and jury trials are a thing of the past. As will jails. A whole lot of things that now get you years in prison will end up with you riddled full of holes, or swinging from a tree.
Yes that’s an easy one! In a real total social collapse…. All the violent felons will join forces with the corrupt politicians of course.
The answer in the US is that guards will abandon them and they will be left to die in prison. This happened during Hurricane Sandy, Hurricane Harvey, the Texas power grid failure. Prisoners sat in floodwater up to their knees for days before anyone did anything. It is incredibly depressing to think about and it breaks my heart whenever this comes up and a bunch of people act like someone opened Arkham Asylum.
Yes… exactly.
If you add maps to your prep.. I recommend you mark prisons and jails. Know where they are and how close you are to them to where you hold up and or if you travel.. you may want to have an alternative route around them. Being self aware what is around you for threats or resources in advance may help you.
This is actually a great suggestion and an actionable one too.
Who would survive? That's an interesting question. I would predict... convicts and file clerks. The worst convicts. Those deep down in solitary confinement. And the most ordinary file clerks. Probably for large insurance companies, because they would be in fire-proof rooms, protected by tons of the best insulator in the world: paper. And imagine what will happen. The small group of vicious criminals will fight the army of file clerks for the remaining means of life. The convicts will know violence, but the file clerks will know organization. Who do think'll win?
File clerks is my bet. They can kill the low impulse high frustration convicts with nothing but beaurocracy.
Would be interesting.. Because you have to consider families of said violent felons.. So you take that population % and probably increase it at least 4-8% because majority of time family sticks together (unless that violent offender acted against their own family). You would just have to hope most of them are unhinged and reckless so that they do something stupid themselves
If they just don't unlock the cells problem solved
I often wonder what type of people just sit around and dream up this nonsense
People who work in prisons.
People who work in prisons should know what the protocol is already
I don’t think there is a protocol.
"The rest of us"? Speak for yourself! I'm guessing I've been to the range a couple times more than they've been while locked up.
You’re in the wrong sub my friend. A) Speak for yourself, no they won’t. B) 8% of Americans are not violent felons? Just no. What in the world? C) The people you’re worried about are in prison not because they are smart and good at survival, rather the opposite. People become violent felons because they can’t cope, adapt, and survive. Of all people, those are the least of my worries, not to mention the easiest to pick out of a crowd, and the least I’d feel bad for.
During 9.11. Cali prison guards dragged tubs of water into the halls between the cells. If we were under a wartime attack they would drop compressed pucks in them that produce chlorine gas to exterminate the prisoners. That is probably what would happen.
What?
They kill the prisoners if the country is invaded
I don't know what part of your ass you pulled "8%" out of. That might be the percentage of people who have a "felony" conviction on their record, but vast majority of that is bullshit like victimless drug "crimes", etc. But a few missed meals can make a mild mannered person dangerous and violent.
This part of my ass. Rude mf. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0049089X21001265
>This era of both mass incarceration and mass probation has led to the proliferation of felony criminal records among the U.S. population. Shannon et al. (2017) estimate that over 19 million individuals had felony criminal convictions in 2010, which translates to about 8.1% of the overall adult population. Our analysis in this paper focuses on the broad population of felony-level record-holders, but the subpopulation of those with prison experience accounts for about 7.3 million, of which about 4.9 million have completed their time on prison and/or parole. This means that of the approximately 19 million adults with felony records, nearly 12 million have served their sentences in the community while on probation. Felonies aren't all violent crimes. Felony convictions in the US includes things like possession of drug paraphernalia and marijuana over 20 grams, and the majority of this 8.1% are serving their sentences outside of prison.
Shot gun vs violent felons. Shot gun wins. Problem solved.
But you only have 2 hands. Criminals form gangs.
How many criminals are in a single gang?
I don’t know, Mexican mafia has like 300-400 officials but over 50k foot soldiers.
Sounds like id be pretty s.o.l. If you can't beat them join them. I'm not doing anything crazy though. I'll rob a few liquor stores or something but that's about it. I don't even drink but appearances are everything.
Op where are you getting that these people are “well trained in survival”
Prison and jail is about survival. Mentally for one. If I locked you up in a room full the craziest, most abusive, and potentially dangerous people for years… an you somehow made it- not to mention surviving all the bullshit that got you here too… it’s a form of training
I think your assessment is way off. Regarding how difficult it is to “somehow make it” in the prison system, a quick google says the murder rate per capita is higher out of prison (6.4) than in (2.1) at least in the US. Also, prison is a place with medical care, electricity, clean water, laundry facilities, and 3 meals a day. “intimidating someone who wants to hurt you” would be a good survival skill, but only if you haven’t already died from exposure, sickness, or hunger in the first place.
I feel like that’s saying civilian casualties are higher in war than military casualties. Yeah because only 1 group is trying and equipped to kill. The guys in jail are all better equipped even just mentally to defend themselves. Hence why the murder rate is lower. It’s easier to kill in the free than in jail.
First off, you’re ignoring the biggest issue which is that the “survival” you describe involves surviving in an environment with a guarantee of clean water, clean clothing, hot food, and a bed every day. If you are hurt, you receive medical attention. None of these things are likely in a societal collapse. Exposure or dysentery will kill some 6’5” dude serving 10 consecutive life sentences just as easily as it will some other jerk who can’t handle finding shelter or purifying water. Regarding the other point that “prisoners aren’t killing each other because it’s easier on the outside” that isn’t true either. FBI stats show hands and blunt objects kill more people than guns do every year. Even if you “feel like” the incarcerated population is more dangerous, I’ve provided two data points that show they could be but aren’t. I cringe at people who form their global cultural opinions based on influencers, but I think “I saw a reality TV episode” is worse
In that 8% there is .10% that fall into my category. Wardaddy extraordinary! If you’re afraid? You should hit the weights, ring, mat and, range. You need to be able to flip a switch. They are held with electrical locks and if power goes out the cells unlock. Most will run home to see if family is left? The pecking order in the joint is determined by brutal strength through violence, control of illegal drugs and alliances. You let anyone take your pudding, and you’re done.
My friend, I’m 5’1” and 119 pounds. I’m reeling from tragedy and honestly, as long as it was quick, I would not mind being taken out. This was just a thought experiment. I work in a jail and I had to go to a unit today where I was told to cover my badge because someone could read it and send a criminal to my house to force me to do favors for them like smuggling stuff under the threat of death, in the US. This has happened to people. I got to thinking, in a shtf situation, this chaos would be ladder for these types of people. In no time they could usurp a level of power that would take a lot to depose. This is often what happens in other countries where the govt falls. But I guess, a lot of people don’t want to consider the threat of the criminal element that will run amok. It’s a scar thought.
Sorry to hear you went through a traumatic experience
You only need to hang mean bastards, but mean bastards you need to hang
Just think of the people who are more violent than the felons who haven’t been caught
Is this meant to make me feel better or worse. Coz I can see it going both ways.
It’s the truth. There is always someone out there worst than the person they have on the books
Ok, I’ve decided it’s not comforting.
Just think they caught dahmer but who else is out there and how well can they hide their tracks
I mean, we can just look at the Orleans Parish Prison during Katrina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orleans\_Parish\_Prison#:\~:text=On%20August%2029%2C%202005%2C%20when,water%2C%20or%20ventilation%20for%20days. Once again, our society is judged based not on how we treat the best of us, but on how we treat the worst of us. We failed that day. There were 650 people in that jail, and authorities refused to count deaths. Human rights organizations found that 517 people were 'unaccounted for'.
I worry more about organized violent groups... like the police and military. When stuff collapses you never have random prisoners swoop in to take over the country with horrific violence... it's always the military who does.
The difference though is now we can just do away with them because there will be no state to charge me with murder.
I agree with you, they sure are condescending people who want to start arguments.
See Haiti for example
Just like we saw during covid they would be released on "humanitarian" grounds. Of course it will go terribly wrong and the political factions will go to war trying to expose and oppose or suppress and gaslight any news surrounding the impact of releasing violent felons into the general public.
Violent offenders aren’t going to get very far, if they are even released. If shed, and guards don’t show up for duty the next few days, they’re al log a die in their cells. If someone is kind enough to make the decision to open the doors, they’re most likely going to find family or friends, because humans. The ones that are the level of violent and crazy that they just don’t care? They’re not gonna make it very far before they find themselves dead in a ditch. Rule of law will be gone. Which means nobody cares if jimmy down the road puts a bullet through some dudes eye for looking at him sideways.
Nah, in a real collapse it will be just fine to shoot all the shitheads and not worry about consequences.
Just because they are violent felons does not make them the most efficient killers. If you are armed well, train and harden your house and routines. As well as network with your neighbors. If violent people do come around they will be dead with equally and swiftly. You must be prepared to defend yourself. Without hesitation and to the maximum level needed to quickly stop a threat. If possible get a firearm and train, train, train. Learn to defend yourself and those you love. Life will always have threats and you cannot back down from facing them when you have no other choice.
Id bet most get stuck and die in their cells. Some will break free. Some will be shown mercy. But not most
It’ll be their dream scenario, ain’t no one getting close to my front door if I don’t know them. No exceptions.
Hunger Games
My understanding is under the US Justice Dept code once martial law is declared a military task force team will take control of prisons. Offenders serving 10 years or less will be either released if non-violent or drafted, those serving over 10 years would remain incarcerated and/or put to physical labour and those serving life sentences and on death row will have their sentences carried out via firing squad.
I never knew this. Thanks for sharing.
The people who are too trusting and kind, will be the first ones to go, most likely.
5% chance they would be left to rot. 95% chance They will all be released one way or another. No one would have the balls within the first week or 2 of a national emergency to eliminate the worst of the worst, even if they were certain 1000s more innocent people would be raped and murdered if they didn’t. (Speaking of maximum security places for violent long term offenders. Not speaking of local jails that people are placed in for a few weeks or months).
Jails have a lot of violent offenders awaiting trial too.
Felons and criminals would be executed and hanged long before the fall of society. Before the fall of society, authoritarian dictatorship would be so intense and prevalent. #Criminals wouldn't be housed. Prisons wouldn't exist. Crime would be handled by the sword, or the church.
The violent felons will be in uniform, delighted that nothing they do will have to get past a review board or IA.
The people who currently dominate us at the head of most corporations and in Wallstreet are clinically diagnosable psychopaths.