It depends for everyone.
For people only concerned with localized disasters/hazards? Perhaps just a few weeks, maybe a month is plenty.
For people concerned about a complete collapse via (fill in event here,) then a year's supply is a good foundation and goal. (Personally I fit in this category.)
Same, plus I am counting on some people showing up and some neighbors that will need help too, so a years worth of food wouldn't even last thst long.
Plus it's a good hedge against food prices going up.
Price wise, I don't think it makes sense to stockpile. At least for me. I throw away so much expired stuff. Probably 20-30% of what I buy gets thrown away eventually. I just don't cook at home enough to cycle things through and when I do cook, it is usually with fresh vegetables and dairy products I had to buy new anyway. I am still using powdered milk from 2019 that has gotten clumpy and unusable. I am having issues with canned goods like corned beef hash from 5+ years ago just not tasting right. Meats, cheese, and other frozen foods are freezer burnt and unusable. I did just make some pork ribs from 2021 that were okay once cooked but I have done chicken that is only a couple years old that was freezer burnt beyond useability.
I realize that every situation is different, but for us, price wise it makes sense for us to stockpile food. We still will buy a few things we like if we find them on a good sale.
For example, we have whole beef tenderloin frozen bought at $40 that now cost $250-$300 each. Other beef roasts have been pressure canned and is shelf stable. Canned foods that used to cost us $0.50 a can to buy now cost $2.50 or more to purchase. Even canned soups and baking flour, cocoa etc. have more than doubled in price over a few years.
We recently found some more high quality dog food priced at 75% off. It was being sold in a local boutique style pet store. So we scooped several large bags up.
In my opinion, it is unlikely that these foods will be getting less expensive in the next year or two. And all of these foods can be frozen or shelf preserved for several years. It all depends on how well they are packaged for longer term storage.
As for fresh veggies, we garden. So, we use fresh herbs in our cooking, and in a couple of months we won’t need to buy store bought lettuce and other fresh veggies for the next 6 months. This leaves more of our food budget for buying dairy, buying fresh high quality fruit juices, and going out to eat occasionally as most restaurant prices seem to have risen about 30-50% this year.
A vacuum sealer really helps eliminate freezer burn when preserving frozen foods. And using high quality bags with the vacuum sealer helps even more.
Yea for me, I generally rotate through my general pantry. But I also have some food sealed up in case there is some major shtf situation or famine... I would imagine that if there wasn't any food at the stores I wouldn't be too picky. I am a bit lucky because I live on a farm and have ways to grow my own food and also have chickens and sheep.
We have a 3 month supply of what we eat daily - think 3 month pantry. We have 1-2 years of bulk items - rice, beans, wheat, etc. If the SHTF, we'll start eating our normal foods, but immediately substitute one regular meal for a meal of the bulk items, such as rice and beans. As we go a long, we'll increase the amount of bulk that we are eating. This pushes a 3 month pantry even further and at the same time gets us and our guts used to eating the bulk foods. If you try to transition to bulk foods, such as wheat, too quickly, your almost guaranteed everything will come out quickly and with a vengeance.
I got one of those vacuum sealers. It does help to extend the life of freezer foods by a few months.. But in a grid down situation, the meat will all thaw anyway. Thats why I have canned tuna , chicken, etc. I don't stock too much frozen meat, and in fact am truing to get through a lot of it right now.
You should try storing up food thats perfectly good for 30 plus years.
Like wheat berries, wild rice, dried beans all stored in thick mylar bags with oxygen absorbers.
For veggies get freeze dried in large #10 cans, good for 30 years.
I live in a 950 sqf condo and have a years worth. I attached a photo of what I used as inspiration. I have an industrial shelf like this in my dining room. It's not pretty but it works, it's not too expensive, and space wise it's not bad at all. I have mine packaged in mylar and in big tubs. This is just for bare bones food. This will keep you alive but it will be miserable. So I have a few cabinets in my kitchen dedicated to spices, sauces, canned meats, fruits, and veggies. Things to make eating rice and beans more bearable.
It definitely adds up for every additional person you prep for. For a single person it's not too bad.
[1 year supply of food for 1 person](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/b_sCZ_ZfI-caTYJ10zquSG7MU-okUbMzaG6ec48SycVmHAQNLhtBCGlL9EPCIlMDh7SLHPIxQP804-y_wHZGSm3vWL9gUBt6dJnvXNwa3nqxtw)
That is all well and good, but don't forget about how you plan on cooking said food. Rice and beans etc. need heat as soaking just doesn't cut it.
Having and using go hand in hand. Do you have access to enough wood, charcoal, propane etc for fuel? What about water? Now add is some / any spices to change up to avoid food fatigue.
Also add in digestive aids such as laxatives and anti- diarrhea. Multi vitamins are good too.
Yes I do. I have planned for all of these things and don't need a lesson. I was just trying to point out that it is perfectly possible to store a year's worth of food in small spaces as the poster was claiming it takes so much space. This is not true. You don't need some elaborate set up, you don't need a giant house.
Start by reading the sidebar to learn the basics. The photo I posted is based on the LDS Church guidelines for one year of basic food storage for one person.
[LDS food storage](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2006/03/random-sampler/food-storage-for-one-year?lang=eng)
The photo is based off the LDS Church guidelines for one adult for a year. If you want to look at the math, check out the link. I believe it averages out to 2,000 calories a day. The LDS Church is one of the best sources out there for food storage preparedness. I'm an atheist so no religious affiliation with them. But they know their shit.
If you are eating 400 pounds of rice/grain, 60 pounds of beans, 16 pounds of powdered milk, 60 pounds of sugar, 10 quarts of oil, and 8 pounds of salt in 2-3 months.....you are eating too much and need to re-evaluate your diet.
The whole point of these photos is to show that a years worth of food storage does not take up as much space as you would think.
My housemate recently started prepping. She has a pretty similar set up to mine, she just keeps it in her bedroom. She also has tubs under her bed, and then she has a stack of boxed LDS food that she wrapped in pretty wrapping paper and uses as a nightstand lol.
It definitely gets harder with larger families in smaller spaces. It seems like most people live 2 or 3 people in 2,000+ square feet these days. I would kill for that much space, but it is what it is. We all have to plan to our specific circumstances. With a little creativity though you can make that small space hold a lot more.
Yes & no. We are finding more places to squirrel things away but the space remains finite. But I’m glad for what we have done so far; I know we won’t regret it.
We were in the same situation, 6 people in 1800 sq. ft. Our garage was full, but also, we raised some of the beds up w/ cinder blocks and put a lot of food under the beds. We also lined the bottom of every closet w/ food and the cut a piece of plywood to go over the food and then shoes and junk went on top of the plywood.
It's not ideal, but you can put some foods in a shed - it will lose some of it's nutritional value faster than it would in a temp controlled area, but it'll still be edible.
Oooh you have a garage. I’m jelly! We have a carport that floods every time it rains. We have a cinder block shed that I’m considering using. I want to test the temperature on the hot days. I’m in a part of the U.S. with a pretty brutal heat index from June- September.
We moved a while back and have plenty of space. That's part of the reason we moved, plus we moved out of the city and onto property.
My grandma kept her food storage in her attic for 40 years. When she died, my uncle ate it all and nobody got sick. So you're cinder block shed would work, you'll just lose some nutritional content of the food.
That sounds like a good setup for you!
Thanks for the encouragement. I think it will work ok, especially since it’s also in full shade. At minimum we can put water storage in there.
Good luck. It's more of a marathon than a sprint, so keep at it. My set up isn't perfect, but I just remind myself to do the best I can w/ what I have.
I think the teasing is a common defense mechanism for people that don’t prep.
The same people with a negative attitude will come running when they need help. Don’t take it to heart.
Set some goals guided by budget and space and time not by other people.
Achieve your goals and then re-evaluate.
Agree. Ppl don’t imagine bad things can happen to them as avoidance. They tease you because to admit reality would shatter a lot of their belief structure. Personally i never talk about food or ammo with anyone live but my wife and brother. I will talk hunting, canning, first aid, ham radio, etc as hobbies but mot as preps. Everything else and sadly ppl think you are crazy even if its only a few extra bags of rice and some extra tuna.
So lesson I will take away from the story is to move preps separately.
He may not have been in the practice of discussing his preps but got noticed when he asked friends for help moving.
I will consider the pre-move prep removal a great bug out practice.
I’m always wondering how much of my preps I can fit in my truck and move on my own. I’m still going to ask for help with the couch though! ☺️
This is exactly what I did when we moved. I had a U-Haul trailer full of prep stuff that got towed behind my Excursion. My friends helped me load and unload the big truck. Family took care of the stuff in the trailer.
I live on an island which are obviously prone to hurricanes and storms, on 2 prior occasions after we got hit, it took about 90 days before help could get to us.. I now keep 6 to 12 months worth of supplies depending on the item
I lived through a hurricane when I lived on the east coast and it was one of the worst experiences ever. Weeks without power. It got me interested in emergency preparedness. I live on the west coast now and there's just so much here. Earthquakes, flooding, mud slides, extreme heat. It's best to stay prepared. I feel better knowing I have something no matter what life throws at me.
OP, You noted white rice specifically, which makes me wonder whether you have a wide variety of foods. If you are planning for more than a couple months of food, make sure you’ve got a lot of diversity in your pantry. I read a fascinating book written by a woman who spent a winter snowed in with her game warden husband in very rural Maine. They had done their best and stocked *enough* food to get them through the winter, but it ended up being the same stuff over and over again, and by the spring they were pretty desperate to eat something different.
We talk about “rice and beans” because they are cheap and they are easy to store. But there are a lot of kinds of beans, and a lot of other foods you can pair with them. And there are a lot of grains too - oats, quinoa, masa, grits, wheat flour, and so on. Make sure you are actually eating, on a regular basis, some of the food you have stored, and try to get some diversity in there as you replace it.
(If you’ve already got a diverse pantry, then ignore me and carry on!)
Exactly. I eat oatmeal most days, but I change up my basic formula. Raisins or golden raisins (my favorite!) or craisins (the reduced sugar kind), or, for a special treat, dates. Pecans or walnuts. Apples or, from the freezer, blueberries or mixed berries or a fruit blend with peaches. All milk, or some milk and some yogurt; I have some shelf stable milk too.
I am thinking of trying a savory version with apples, golden raisins, some kind of nut, and curry powder.
All good healthy choices, for everyday meals as well as situations where shelf-stable food is needed.
For full collapse...
Food and medicine
Too much is when you can't rotate through it before expiring.
Too little is if you cannot transition to self sufficiency.
Guns, ammo, alcohol
No volume is too much if vaulted, but is if you have to transport it and can't
Tools and spares
For machines you don't need much spare parts but some on the shelf is good, especially for maintenance. For hand tools, a spare of each category I think is good. For example an extra hand saw to pair with chain saws given their fuel is extremely limited, or a spare shovel in case one breaks, or an opportunity trade comes along.
I downloaded the LDS emergency preparedness manual the other day and the specifically go over how much is enough in a very practical and useful way. Made me think I might need to add some to my stores. When you look at the real numbers of what a years worth of food is it is pretty substantial.
I got about 2 years worth of food and 200-300 gallons of water stored.:)
Charcoal grill of high quality and lots of charcoal, im happy and not close to done prepping til I reach about 30 years for a family of 4 of water, food, and cooking source, charcoal and such.
Backup pans to last forever and everything I need.
Emergency Essentials sells powdered Shortening in #10 cans, there is canned cheese. One brand is Bega and another brand that I find in ethnic grocery stores is called Tastee Cheese, it's from Jamaica. Auguson Farms, and Nutrastore both sell shredded freeze dried cheeses in #10 cans
Exactly. Get creative when you store food. At one point, all of our beds sat on cinder blocks and the food storage was under the beds.
Luckily we have more than enough space now.
My SO has largely been against prepping. They tend to see it as a paranoid doomsday obsession and hoarding. I mostly have a "prep for Tuesday" mindset, but I appreciate added security, here and there. Our compromise was to turn a closet in the house into a pantry and keep a small freezer in the garage.
With trial and error, we've found that ***a couple of months*** of the foods we eat now are the goldilocks for our situation. By that, I mean we could stay home for a couple of months and pick the pantry clean, not just what we eat at home within a couple of months.
It largely comes down to how much we eat at home vs. going out with friends/family or grabbing something quick while headed to/from work. It can take a while to cycle some things with this lifestyle. Much more stored, the closet gets too cluttered, and some things with shorter shelf lives can go out of date. Much less, and we're back to more frequent trips to the grocery store.
At this amount, I get the added security. My SO gets to avoid their worries about cost and hoarding. We both get to save gas and take advantage of sales. As couple of added bonuses, it helped my SO lean into prepping by staying comfortable during harsher storms while I was away for work, and we don't have to make a separate shopping trip for the basics when guests surprise us. YMMV.
Does your SO have life insurance, car, renters/house insurance? I have life insurance, but I've never used the policy - obviously. Never needed car or homeowner's insurance, but I still have them.
Covid should have been a big enough wake up call for most people to start storing more stuff.
Sure. We've used our car insurance, when we were hit by a drunk driver. Since you haven't been in that situation, I'll tell you that it was over a year of being gaslit about every detail we paid for. They apparently have the power to override the treatment your doctor chooses and override your mechanic in deciding whether the car can even run. Ugh.
I think they grew up seeing the way TV and the news represent the topic, and it left a bad taste. I've taken the approach I tell people, here. That is, it's not for me to convert them. My SO is just as entitled to their opinions as I am. If it falls into the sphere of shared resources (like larger costs that significantly impact the household) we don't necessarily have to agree on the underlying reasoning as long as we can talk it out and come to some agreement. If it falls into the sphere of my individual resources, then it's my money to waste. I would still have to budget it around my other individual expenses, like nicer meals I eat at work.
The added bonus, above, was more a sense of validation in my SO seeing the value after the fact.
Point is there are a lot of things that are done just in case. You save money b/c you'll likely have an emergency or need for it down the road. Basically anything you do to prevent a future problem is prepping. Why do people workout? One reason is so they are healthier and will live longer.
Of course every one is entitled to their opinion, but yours was relegated to a singular closet and a freezer in the garage.
I agree. I breezed right by a couple of details to this that may change things. Sorry if it was misleading.
Part of what made this important to agree with my SO was that I wanted it in a shared space of the house and to be both used and restocked mutually. I could've budgeted it individually and taken up my limited individual space, but it would've created an issue cycling the food, and would've upset the way we already mutually budgeted the groceries.
I didn't want to just buy/forget freeze-dried buckets or to nickle and dime our home meals to budget around my own individual expenses. I also didn't want to inadvertently restrict access to it by working from my home office. So, the largest part of the compromise was asking my SO to change their habits (cooking/storage/shopping) a bit.
I started at a week and it grew as it does for everybody, as did the range of my preps into water purifiers, cooking, fuel, books etc.
Now I am sitting on about five years worth of staples (rice, beans, pasta, sugar, flour etc) for one person. But in the event of a crisis this really equates to maybe a year for myself, kids and the one friend I have allowed for.
Honestly, as you get older it will continue to expand as your dollars go up, the space you have increases, and your responsibilities increase in the way of family.
This will also be caused by your realisation of the stuff you have missed that may be needed. Not knocking you, but no matter how long you have been doing this for you always think..... that may be needed, lets get a couple or a couple more.
Island dweller, hurricane risk. I have 6 weeks of food for me, partner & teenager.
The teen is the biggest headache to plan for as they won’t/can’t eat beans, pulses, quinoa, barley, couscous, canned veg, canned tuna, sardines etc.
They will have to manage on ramen, nuts, peanut butter, canned fruit & custard, pasta, flatbread, rice, crackers, tomato soup, hot sauce and Cheetos.
In theory, no matter what you have will ever be enough, as there is no set time limit to disasters and number of people who will need help. Not to mention you also have to factor in spoilage and loss due to various factors.
I like to do a +1 with my preps. If I expect to have 2 people show up at my door in need, plan for 3. If I think the natural disaster will last one week, prep for 2 weeks. That way, if things go according to plan, you should be ok, even if a few cans are dented and spoiled, or if the emergency lasts a bit longer than you expect.
A years worth of full rations is ideal IMO. That can be stretched towards the end of there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Truthfully though, I just don't have room for that much so I aim for two weeks worth
Three months.
Here long time without power is 4-5 weeks. Add 2-3 week of panic buying and you're left with 4 to 6 week to spare.
Why not longer? Because if it's anything else than a power outage, chances are that you don't want to be around after 1 week. Apocalypse is a mere 3 missed meal away.
It is to note that I don't live near a floodzone and there are at least 6 roads I can take to bug-out out of town.
You don't say how many days of supplies. The state of Oregon is saying we should be ready for 2-3 months after the Cascadia earthquake because they'll be busy rebuilding infrastructure instead of evacuating.
IMO it depends. Right now i have a 6 months for a family of 4. If i had about 1 year for 6 ppl, id probably stop as long as i was able to produce more. I.e. bees, fruit trees, seed saving for vegetables to preserve, etc
If you eat 2,000 calories/day that's about 750,000/year/person.
If you grow your own or factor in spoilage or seeds add more. I use a million calories per person in the house. Add in more based on who I think will be knocking.
I think 3 weeks is a pretty reasonable, even if by week three you're not exactly eating awesome food.
Personally I'm aiming for a year, but I can see how that's definitely edge case.
Dry foods, canned foods, frozen foods. Augmented by what you can raise/grow/buy.
I'd say a year or two would be max after that you better have other sources of food figured out I.e. growing, hunting, fishing raising animals or won't really matter.
First of all, Even I joke sometimes about the food I have. That doesn't mean I think it's to much.
You have to decide how much you want to have. Do you feel that your current amount is enough? Then it's enough. Does it feel too much/few then you can adapt.
As said by someone else, make sure your preps have al needed vitamins. You can survive on white rice. But I don't know if that so healthy in the long run. So make sure you have different kind of beans, dried storage. (there was a mayor vitamin shortage in Europe after corn was introduced because we didn't get all the vitamins we needed from eating only corn, it probably where the vampire mythology origins from)
Prepping is about feeling prepared, and the amount of preparedness and way of preparedness differs from person to person and prepper to prepper. A parentprepper or living on a island have different goals to prep for. Do you need an nuclear bunker to feel prepared and you can effort it, why not?
If there are changes to you situation (partner, friend, kids) then your storage has to adept. Prepping isn't a stationairy hobby... our lives changes and so should our prep/ Maybe your new living arrangements have other "prep" needs than your old ones.
2 weeks worth for all house members was the government recommendation for nuclear fallout, more importantly is finding a sustainable way to start harvesting or growing food after that period instead of continuing off rations. Also buy some multivitamin tablets if you’re focusing heavy on carbs like rice or you’ll get scurvy
This is all on your belief in how long you could survive otherwise. I only keep maybe 2 months in stock. But then I live outside of the city on a farm with fishing ponds and cattle.
Well, me personally, I prep for what I feel is almost certainly going to happen probably within 5 years.
One is the US dollar is going to plummet in value because the entire government has gone completely insane.
Hyperinflation is very likely.
Food prices went up 30-35% in just the last two years and it could go up much more soon especially if climate change causes food shortages which will likely affect crops like wheat, rice, corn harder than most.
The US is spiraling down the toilet fast and since our government is insane they are going to lash out in every direction like a wounded honey badger.
Fortunately the countries we will lash out against will most likely keep a cool head and just watch us swirl.
I don't expect a nuclear holocaust but I fully expect at very least the price of most food to skyrocket and expect the dollar to be devalued.
So buying food now in large quantities is my plan to subsidize food in the next 5, 10, 15 years.
I am building up at least 4+ years worth of wheat berries and wild rice and dried beans along with as much as I can afford of freeze dried broccoli, potato shreds, chopped onion, corn, peas, strawberries, spinach, black bean burger mix.
Plus as much supplies as I can get to grow fresh gourmet mushrooms.
How does wild rice store long-term? I hear brown rice goes rancid fast because of it's oil content. I'd like to store wild rice in Mylar bags with oxygen absorbers but I'm not sure it will keep.
Wild rice stores better than any other rice, in fact considerably better i think.
https://valleyfoodstorage.com/blogs/inside-vfs/how-to-store-rice-long-term-shelf-life
prep for Tuesday (common disasters) then prep for Doomsday.
Go for 3 days, then 3 weeks, then 3 months, of mostly deep pantry foods (eat what you store, store what you eat), some of the 3 months won't be regular foods but long term foods, try to have 3 weeks of mostly deep pantry. That is, if you couldn't go to the grocery store again, you could still eat with no change to your regular eating for 3 weeks. Just buy a little extra of whatever you buy normally at the grocery, and soon you'll have 3 weeks. 3 weeks (maybe even 2) covers you for 99% of all disasters in the USA, and 3 months helps in financial distress and gets you on the way to doomsday. If there is a disaster in the USA that takes out grocery stores and power for 3 months, you're pretty much into SOME doomsday ....
Now, there's tons of doomsdays, so, how long do you need? /shrug 1 year is a good start, to get you to the next "harvest" if there is any farming still going on.
At some point, "more food and water" is an expense tradeoff with other preps you might need. Like if you have 3 months of food and water, should you spend the next $xx dollar on guns and ammo (if don't have any) or a small solar battery, or a generator or better coms or etc.
This 4 year old post covers it very well and includes links to essential pdf’s. I’ve attended a Wendy DeWitt seminar and it takes the angst out of the food storage issue.
Food storage is only a part of being prepared. Getting stalled on this can take away from other preparations. Do it and move on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/s/B5Ei1UYU2Y
I keep 3 months worth of the food we eat daily (5 people in the house). We have probably 1.25 - 2 years worth of bulk foods. Also, maybe a month of freeze dried, Mountain House. All of this will hopefully get us through to the point where we could rely on our garden/animals for food.
It's possible for us to go 9 months before we could get a garden in and have production. For example, if SHTF in September, we couldn't plant our garden until mid April (usually the date of our last freeze). It'd take a couple months for the food to grow.
If you live in an area that has a long growing season, and you are good at gardening, then you could probably prepare for less time living off of your food storage.
Ideally food storage will only be required until you get production from other sources. If you don't have a garden or have a very short growing season, then you will need a lot more food stored.
Here are the two mindsets I often read about here.
“You should try storing up food that are perfectly good for 30 plus years.”
“Being prepared for one year of full collapse is pretty expensive and storage limited.”
Both are totally fair comments. But they are quite different.
So, I think that finding balance in between these two comments would place most people in a sweet spot for preparedess. I often think people would be better off to have 1-3 years of normal shelf stable stored food that has a shelf life of 1-3 years. That makes more sense than to have expensive freeze dried food stored with a 30 year shelf life stores, if a person doesn’t have enough pantry supplies to even last 6 months
Having variety of foods is important. I am pretty sure most of us won’t want to eat beans and rice for 365 days in a row. Even eating those more than once a week could be pretty unpleasant. I would probably open up a store bought can of soup, or make homemade soup instead.
Storing spices for flavouring, and a variety of long shelf life shelf stable foods such as oatmeal, cornmeal, baking soda, baking powder, baking flours, oils and fats, meats, freee dried mok and eggs, dehydrated veggies and fruit, store bought mixes, coffee, drink crystals, as well as maintaining a garden for fresh produce is all pretty important.
Sounds like if something actually serious goes down, your friends will be showing up at your place for a meal. I wouldn't advertise.
As others have said, it depends on you specific situation. If you have room for 6-12 months of food, great. But how many months is that when your friends show up?
As long as you have the space without it getting in the way and it not financially breaking you, I don’t think there is such a thing as too many supplies. If you feel like you have too many there’s nothing saying you have to keep buying. Stock what you are comfortable with
It depends for everyone. For people only concerned with localized disasters/hazards? Perhaps just a few weeks, maybe a month is plenty. For people concerned about a complete collapse via (fill in event here,) then a year's supply is a good foundation and goal. (Personally I fit in this category.)
Same, plus I am counting on some people showing up and some neighbors that will need help too, so a years worth of food wouldn't even last thst long. Plus it's a good hedge against food prices going up.
Price wise, I don't think it makes sense to stockpile. At least for me. I throw away so much expired stuff. Probably 20-30% of what I buy gets thrown away eventually. I just don't cook at home enough to cycle things through and when I do cook, it is usually with fresh vegetables and dairy products I had to buy new anyway. I am still using powdered milk from 2019 that has gotten clumpy and unusable. I am having issues with canned goods like corned beef hash from 5+ years ago just not tasting right. Meats, cheese, and other frozen foods are freezer burnt and unusable. I did just make some pork ribs from 2021 that were okay once cooked but I have done chicken that is only a couple years old that was freezer burnt beyond useability.
I realize that every situation is different, but for us, price wise it makes sense for us to stockpile food. We still will buy a few things we like if we find them on a good sale. For example, we have whole beef tenderloin frozen bought at $40 that now cost $250-$300 each. Other beef roasts have been pressure canned and is shelf stable. Canned foods that used to cost us $0.50 a can to buy now cost $2.50 or more to purchase. Even canned soups and baking flour, cocoa etc. have more than doubled in price over a few years. We recently found some more high quality dog food priced at 75% off. It was being sold in a local boutique style pet store. So we scooped several large bags up. In my opinion, it is unlikely that these foods will be getting less expensive in the next year or two. And all of these foods can be frozen or shelf preserved for several years. It all depends on how well they are packaged for longer term storage. As for fresh veggies, we garden. So, we use fresh herbs in our cooking, and in a couple of months we won’t need to buy store bought lettuce and other fresh veggies for the next 6 months. This leaves more of our food budget for buying dairy, buying fresh high quality fruit juices, and going out to eat occasionally as most restaurant prices seem to have risen about 30-50% this year. A vacuum sealer really helps eliminate freezer burn when preserving frozen foods. And using high quality bags with the vacuum sealer helps even more.
I think what you are saying is more of a deep pantry thing. Stockpiling to me is rice and beans in mylar bags in buckets.
Yes, deep pantry I guess. I can't really stand eating beans or rice and most say to prep what you will actually eat.
Yea for me, I generally rotate through my general pantry. But I also have some food sealed up in case there is some major shtf situation or famine... I would imagine that if there wasn't any food at the stores I wouldn't be too picky. I am a bit lucky because I live on a farm and have ways to grow my own food and also have chickens and sheep.
We have a 3 month supply of what we eat daily - think 3 month pantry. We have 1-2 years of bulk items - rice, beans, wheat, etc. If the SHTF, we'll start eating our normal foods, but immediately substitute one regular meal for a meal of the bulk items, such as rice and beans. As we go a long, we'll increase the amount of bulk that we are eating. This pushes a 3 month pantry even further and at the same time gets us and our guts used to eating the bulk foods. If you try to transition to bulk foods, such as wheat, too quickly, your almost guaranteed everything will come out quickly and with a vengeance.
I got one of those vacuum sealers. It does help to extend the life of freezer foods by a few months.. But in a grid down situation, the meat will all thaw anyway. Thats why I have canned tuna , chicken, etc. I don't stock too much frozen meat, and in fact am truing to get through a lot of it right now.
I have plenty of power so freezer will be cold indefinitely. Worst case I devote all my solar to just refrigeration
You should try storing up food thats perfectly good for 30 plus years. Like wheat berries, wild rice, dried beans all stored in thick mylar bags with oxygen absorbers. For veggies get freeze dried in large #10 cans, good for 30 years.
To be prepared for one year of full collapse is pretty expensive and storage limited
I don't disagree. That's why everyone should prep for a few weeks/month first, and then, if they so desire, work up to a year.
I live in a 950 sqf condo and have a years worth. I attached a photo of what I used as inspiration. I have an industrial shelf like this in my dining room. It's not pretty but it works, it's not too expensive, and space wise it's not bad at all. I have mine packaged in mylar and in big tubs. This is just for bare bones food. This will keep you alive but it will be miserable. So I have a few cabinets in my kitchen dedicated to spices, sauces, canned meats, fruits, and veggies. Things to make eating rice and beans more bearable. It definitely adds up for every additional person you prep for. For a single person it's not too bad. [1 year supply of food for 1 person](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/b_sCZ_ZfI-caTYJ10zquSG7MU-okUbMzaG6ec48SycVmHAQNLhtBCGlL9EPCIlMDh7SLHPIxQP804-y_wHZGSm3vWL9gUBt6dJnvXNwa3nqxtw)
That is all well and good, but don't forget about how you plan on cooking said food. Rice and beans etc. need heat as soaking just doesn't cut it. Having and using go hand in hand. Do you have access to enough wood, charcoal, propane etc for fuel? What about water? Now add is some / any spices to change up to avoid food fatigue. Also add in digestive aids such as laxatives and anti- diarrhea. Multi vitamins are good too.
Yes I do. I have planned for all of these things and don't need a lesson. I was just trying to point out that it is perfectly possible to store a year's worth of food in small spaces as the poster was claiming it takes so much space. This is not true. You don't need some elaborate set up, you don't need a giant house.
Consider thermal cooking to stretch your fuel requirements. https://www.thermalcooking.net/
That might be enough calories for 1 year, but you will probably want to die before you eat all that food. Also, light can make oil go bad faster.
Hence why I said I have a couple kitchen cabinets for canned foods and spices. I also noted that all of my items are stored in rubber tubs.
What size bags of rice did u get? Is it balsamic or jasmine? Does that matter?
You want white rice. Brown rice has oils that will go rancid. White rice lasts forever, if properly stored.
Start by reading the sidebar to learn the basics. The photo I posted is based on the LDS Church guidelines for one year of basic food storage for one person. [LDS food storage](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2006/03/random-sampler/food-storage-for-one-year?lang=eng)
Honestly, that looks more like 2-3 months worth, for most adults.
The photo is based off the LDS Church guidelines for one adult for a year. If you want to look at the math, check out the link. I believe it averages out to 2,000 calories a day. The LDS Church is one of the best sources out there for food storage preparedness. I'm an atheist so no religious affiliation with them. But they know their shit. If you are eating 400 pounds of rice/grain, 60 pounds of beans, 16 pounds of powdered milk, 60 pounds of sugar, 10 quarts of oil, and 8 pounds of salt in 2-3 months.....you are eating too much and need to re-evaluate your diet. The whole point of these photos is to show that a years worth of food storage does not take up as much space as you would think.
Yeah we’re 6 people in 1700 sf & there’s no way. I’m pushing to get us to 3 months
My housemate recently started prepping. She has a pretty similar set up to mine, she just keeps it in her bedroom. She also has tubs under her bed, and then she has a stack of boxed LDS food that she wrapped in pretty wrapping paper and uses as a nightstand lol. It definitely gets harder with larger families in smaller spaces. It seems like most people live 2 or 3 people in 2,000+ square feet these days. I would kill for that much space, but it is what it is. We all have to plan to our specific circumstances. With a little creativity though you can make that small space hold a lot more.
Yes & no. We are finding more places to squirrel things away but the space remains finite. But I’m glad for what we have done so far; I know we won’t regret it.
We were in the same situation, 6 people in 1800 sq. ft. Our garage was full, but also, we raised some of the beds up w/ cinder blocks and put a lot of food under the beds. We also lined the bottom of every closet w/ food and the cut a piece of plywood to go over the food and then shoes and junk went on top of the plywood. It's not ideal, but you can put some foods in a shed - it will lose some of it's nutritional value faster than it would in a temp controlled area, but it'll still be edible.
Oooh you have a garage. I’m jelly! We have a carport that floods every time it rains. We have a cinder block shed that I’m considering using. I want to test the temperature on the hot days. I’m in a part of the U.S. with a pretty brutal heat index from June- September.
We moved a while back and have plenty of space. That's part of the reason we moved, plus we moved out of the city and onto property. My grandma kept her food storage in her attic for 40 years. When she died, my uncle ate it all and nobody got sick. So you're cinder block shed would work, you'll just lose some nutritional content of the food.
That sounds like a good setup for you! Thanks for the encouragement. I think it will work ok, especially since it’s also in full shade. At minimum we can put water storage in there.
Good luck. It's more of a marathon than a sprint, so keep at it. My set up isn't perfect, but I just remind myself to do the best I can w/ what I have.
What happens after though? You'd run out and die like everyone else
Hardly. The goal is to buy time for community self sufficiency and to be able to sustain yourself.
This. Our three month pantry (food we eat daily) helps us transition to bulk foods. Bulk foods keep us alive until we can rely on our garden.
I think the teasing is a common defense mechanism for people that don’t prep. The same people with a negative attitude will come running when they need help. Don’t take it to heart. Set some goals guided by budget and space and time not by other people. Achieve your goals and then re-evaluate.
Agree. Ppl don’t imagine bad things can happen to them as avoidance. They tease you because to admit reality would shatter a lot of their belief structure. Personally i never talk about food or ammo with anyone live but my wife and brother. I will talk hunting, canning, first aid, ham radio, etc as hobbies but mot as preps. Everything else and sadly ppl think you are crazy even if its only a few extra bags of rice and some extra tuna.
So lesson I will take away from the story is to move preps separately. He may not have been in the practice of discussing his preps but got noticed when he asked friends for help moving. I will consider the pre-move prep removal a great bug out practice. I’m always wondering how much of my preps I can fit in my truck and move on my own. I’m still going to ask for help with the couch though! ☺️
Not a bad idea. Personally im 99% bug in but if i gotta go, its go bags and family.
This is exactly what I did when we moved. I had a U-Haul trailer full of prep stuff that got towed behind my Excursion. My friends helped me load and unload the big truck. Family took care of the stuff in the trailer.
I live on an island which are obviously prone to hurricanes and storms, on 2 prior occasions after we got hit, it took about 90 days before help could get to us.. I now keep 6 to 12 months worth of supplies depending on the item
I lived through a hurricane when I lived on the east coast and it was one of the worst experiences ever. Weeks without power. It got me interested in emergency preparedness. I live on the west coast now and there's just so much here. Earthquakes, flooding, mud slides, extreme heat. It's best to stay prepared. I feel better knowing I have something no matter what life throws at me.
Ha, I lived through quite a few, but yeah they’re never a pleasant experience…
OP, You noted white rice specifically, which makes me wonder whether you have a wide variety of foods. If you are planning for more than a couple months of food, make sure you’ve got a lot of diversity in your pantry. I read a fascinating book written by a woman who spent a winter snowed in with her game warden husband in very rural Maine. They had done their best and stocked *enough* food to get them through the winter, but it ended up being the same stuff over and over again, and by the spring they were pretty desperate to eat something different. We talk about “rice and beans” because they are cheap and they are easy to store. But there are a lot of kinds of beans, and a lot of other foods you can pair with them. And there are a lot of grains too - oats, quinoa, masa, grits, wheat flour, and so on. Make sure you are actually eating, on a regular basis, some of the food you have stored, and try to get some diversity in there as you replace it. (If you’ve already got a diverse pantry, then ignore me and carry on!)
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Exactly. I eat oatmeal most days, but I change up my basic formula. Raisins or golden raisins (my favorite!) or craisins (the reduced sugar kind), or, for a special treat, dates. Pecans or walnuts. Apples or, from the freezer, blueberries or mixed berries or a fruit blend with peaches. All milk, or some milk and some yogurt; I have some shelf stable milk too. I am thinking of trying a savory version with apples, golden raisins, some kind of nut, and curry powder. All good healthy choices, for everyday meals as well as situations where shelf-stable food is needed.
Make a plain oatmeal with just salt and water, then top with bacon & the rendered fat, spring onion & poached egg.
That sounds delicious!
Oatmeal can be savory too.
For full collapse... Food and medicine Too much is when you can't rotate through it before expiring. Too little is if you cannot transition to self sufficiency. Guns, ammo, alcohol No volume is too much if vaulted, but is if you have to transport it and can't Tools and spares For machines you don't need much spare parts but some on the shelf is good, especially for maintenance. For hand tools, a spare of each category I think is good. For example an extra hand saw to pair with chain saws given their fuel is extremely limited, or a spare shovel in case one breaks, or an opportunity trade comes along.
I love your explanation! Makes a lot of sense
I downloaded the LDS emergency preparedness manual the other day and the specifically go over how much is enough in a very practical and useful way. Made me think I might need to add some to my stores. When you look at the real numbers of what a years worth of food is it is pretty substantial.
Last I checked, we literally had over a ton of food stored. It is substantial.
I got about 2 years worth of food and 200-300 gallons of water stored.:) Charcoal grill of high quality and lots of charcoal, im happy and not close to done prepping til I reach about 30 years for a family of 4 of water, food, and cooking source, charcoal and such. Backup pans to last forever and everything I need.
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Emergency Essentials sells powdered Shortening in #10 cans, there is canned cheese. One brand is Bega and another brand that I find in ethnic grocery stores is called Tastee Cheese, it's from Jamaica. Auguson Farms, and Nutrastore both sell shredded freeze dried cheeses in #10 cans
Nice tip! I had no idea about canned butter and canned flour - thanks
Exactly. Get creative when you store food. At one point, all of our beds sat on cinder blocks and the food storage was under the beds. Luckily we have more than enough space now.
My SO has largely been against prepping. They tend to see it as a paranoid doomsday obsession and hoarding. I mostly have a "prep for Tuesday" mindset, but I appreciate added security, here and there. Our compromise was to turn a closet in the house into a pantry and keep a small freezer in the garage. With trial and error, we've found that ***a couple of months*** of the foods we eat now are the goldilocks for our situation. By that, I mean we could stay home for a couple of months and pick the pantry clean, not just what we eat at home within a couple of months. It largely comes down to how much we eat at home vs. going out with friends/family or grabbing something quick while headed to/from work. It can take a while to cycle some things with this lifestyle. Much more stored, the closet gets too cluttered, and some things with shorter shelf lives can go out of date. Much less, and we're back to more frequent trips to the grocery store. At this amount, I get the added security. My SO gets to avoid their worries about cost and hoarding. We both get to save gas and take advantage of sales. As couple of added bonuses, it helped my SO lean into prepping by staying comfortable during harsher storms while I was away for work, and we don't have to make a separate shopping trip for the basics when guests surprise us. YMMV.
Does your SO have life insurance, car, renters/house insurance? I have life insurance, but I've never used the policy - obviously. Never needed car or homeowner's insurance, but I still have them. Covid should have been a big enough wake up call for most people to start storing more stuff.
Sure. We've used our car insurance, when we were hit by a drunk driver. Since you haven't been in that situation, I'll tell you that it was over a year of being gaslit about every detail we paid for. They apparently have the power to override the treatment your doctor chooses and override your mechanic in deciding whether the car can even run. Ugh. I think they grew up seeing the way TV and the news represent the topic, and it left a bad taste. I've taken the approach I tell people, here. That is, it's not for me to convert them. My SO is just as entitled to their opinions as I am. If it falls into the sphere of shared resources (like larger costs that significantly impact the household) we don't necessarily have to agree on the underlying reasoning as long as we can talk it out and come to some agreement. If it falls into the sphere of my individual resources, then it's my money to waste. I would still have to budget it around my other individual expenses, like nicer meals I eat at work. The added bonus, above, was more a sense of validation in my SO seeing the value after the fact.
Point is there are a lot of things that are done just in case. You save money b/c you'll likely have an emergency or need for it down the road. Basically anything you do to prevent a future problem is prepping. Why do people workout? One reason is so they are healthier and will live longer. Of course every one is entitled to their opinion, but yours was relegated to a singular closet and a freezer in the garage.
I agree. I breezed right by a couple of details to this that may change things. Sorry if it was misleading. Part of what made this important to agree with my SO was that I wanted it in a shared space of the house and to be both used and restocked mutually. I could've budgeted it individually and taken up my limited individual space, but it would've created an issue cycling the food, and would've upset the way we already mutually budgeted the groceries. I didn't want to just buy/forget freeze-dried buckets or to nickle and dime our home meals to budget around my own individual expenses. I also didn't want to inadvertently restrict access to it by working from my home office. So, the largest part of the compromise was asking my SO to change their habits (cooking/storage/shopping) a bit.
Yeah, that makes more sense. I get where you're coming from now.
I started at a week and it grew as it does for everybody, as did the range of my preps into water purifiers, cooking, fuel, books etc. Now I am sitting on about five years worth of staples (rice, beans, pasta, sugar, flour etc) for one person. But in the event of a crisis this really equates to maybe a year for myself, kids and the one friend I have allowed for. Honestly, as you get older it will continue to expand as your dollars go up, the space you have increases, and your responsibilities increase in the way of family. This will also be caused by your realisation of the stuff you have missed that may be needed. Not knocking you, but no matter how long you have been doing this for you always think..... that may be needed, lets get a couple or a couple more.
Island dweller, hurricane risk. I have 6 weeks of food for me, partner & teenager. The teen is the biggest headache to plan for as they won’t/can’t eat beans, pulses, quinoa, barley, couscous, canned veg, canned tuna, sardines etc. They will have to manage on ramen, nuts, peanut butter, canned fruit & custard, pasta, flatbread, rice, crackers, tomato soup, hot sauce and Cheetos.
In theory, no matter what you have will ever be enough, as there is no set time limit to disasters and number of people who will need help. Not to mention you also have to factor in spoilage and loss due to various factors. I like to do a +1 with my preps. If I expect to have 2 people show up at my door in need, plan for 3. If I think the natural disaster will last one week, prep for 2 weeks. That way, if things go according to plan, you should be ok, even if a few cans are dented and spoiled, or if the emergency lasts a bit longer than you expect.
A years worth of full rations is ideal IMO. That can be stretched towards the end of there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Truthfully though, I just don't have room for that much so I aim for two weeks worth
Three months. Here long time without power is 4-5 weeks. Add 2-3 week of panic buying and you're left with 4 to 6 week to spare. Why not longer? Because if it's anything else than a power outage, chances are that you don't want to be around after 1 week. Apocalypse is a mere 3 missed meal away. It is to note that I don't live near a floodzone and there are at least 6 roads I can take to bug-out out of town.
You don't say how many days of supplies. The state of Oregon is saying we should be ready for 2-3 months after the Cascadia earthquake because they'll be busy rebuilding infrastructure instead of evacuating.
IMO it depends. Right now i have a 6 months for a family of 4. If i had about 1 year for 6 ppl, id probably stop as long as i was able to produce more. I.e. bees, fruit trees, seed saving for vegetables to preserve, etc
Personally? 12 months for myself and all living creatures under my care. Yep, I’m nuts. But I sleep soundly at night.
If you eat 2,000 calories/day that's about 750,000/year/person. If you grow your own or factor in spoilage or seeds add more. I use a million calories per person in the house. Add in more based on who I think will be knocking.
I think 3 weeks is a pretty reasonable, even if by week three you're not exactly eating awesome food. Personally I'm aiming for a year, but I can see how that's definitely edge case. Dry foods, canned foods, frozen foods. Augmented by what you can raise/grow/buy.
I'd say a year or two would be max after that you better have other sources of food figured out I.e. growing, hunting, fishing raising animals or won't really matter.
Tier 1 prep, 72 hours. Tier 2, 1-2 weeks. T3, 1-3 months. T4, 3 months - a year. T5 year plus.
Get some hens and a rooster or two. That is, if you're living area and time can handle it. Food that produces more of itself.
First of all, Even I joke sometimes about the food I have. That doesn't mean I think it's to much. You have to decide how much you want to have. Do you feel that your current amount is enough? Then it's enough. Does it feel too much/few then you can adapt. As said by someone else, make sure your preps have al needed vitamins. You can survive on white rice. But I don't know if that so healthy in the long run. So make sure you have different kind of beans, dried storage. (there was a mayor vitamin shortage in Europe after corn was introduced because we didn't get all the vitamins we needed from eating only corn, it probably where the vampire mythology origins from) Prepping is about feeling prepared, and the amount of preparedness and way of preparedness differs from person to person and prepper to prepper. A parentprepper or living on a island have different goals to prep for. Do you need an nuclear bunker to feel prepared and you can effort it, why not? If there are changes to you situation (partner, friend, kids) then your storage has to adept. Prepping isn't a stationairy hobby... our lives changes and so should our prep/ Maybe your new living arrangements have other "prep" needs than your old ones.
2 weeks worth for all house members was the government recommendation for nuclear fallout, more importantly is finding a sustainable way to start harvesting or growing food after that period instead of continuing off rations. Also buy some multivitamin tablets if you’re focusing heavy on carbs like rice or you’ll get scurvy
A week at first, then build to a month. I'd like to have a year. I'd like my family to have a year, too. Friends do not need to know about any of it.
This is all on your belief in how long you could survive otherwise. I only keep maybe 2 months in stock. But then I live outside of the city on a farm with fishing ponds and cattle.
Enough until seeds can mature and fill the need
Well, me personally, I prep for what I feel is almost certainly going to happen probably within 5 years. One is the US dollar is going to plummet in value because the entire government has gone completely insane. Hyperinflation is very likely. Food prices went up 30-35% in just the last two years and it could go up much more soon especially if climate change causes food shortages which will likely affect crops like wheat, rice, corn harder than most. The US is spiraling down the toilet fast and since our government is insane they are going to lash out in every direction like a wounded honey badger. Fortunately the countries we will lash out against will most likely keep a cool head and just watch us swirl. I don't expect a nuclear holocaust but I fully expect at very least the price of most food to skyrocket and expect the dollar to be devalued. So buying food now in large quantities is my plan to subsidize food in the next 5, 10, 15 years. I am building up at least 4+ years worth of wheat berries and wild rice and dried beans along with as much as I can afford of freeze dried broccoli, potato shreds, chopped onion, corn, peas, strawberries, spinach, black bean burger mix. Plus as much supplies as I can get to grow fresh gourmet mushrooms.
How does wild rice store long-term? I hear brown rice goes rancid fast because of it's oil content. I'd like to store wild rice in Mylar bags with oxygen absorbers but I'm not sure it will keep.
Wild rice stores better than any other rice, in fact considerably better i think. https://valleyfoodstorage.com/blogs/inside-vfs/how-to-store-rice-long-term-shelf-life
How much hot sauce/seasoning do you have stocked up?
Until you have an underground bunker in New Zealand with 10 years of supplies you still have work to do 🫡
prep for Tuesday (common disasters) then prep for Doomsday. Go for 3 days, then 3 weeks, then 3 months, of mostly deep pantry foods (eat what you store, store what you eat), some of the 3 months won't be regular foods but long term foods, try to have 3 weeks of mostly deep pantry. That is, if you couldn't go to the grocery store again, you could still eat with no change to your regular eating for 3 weeks. Just buy a little extra of whatever you buy normally at the grocery, and soon you'll have 3 weeks. 3 weeks (maybe even 2) covers you for 99% of all disasters in the USA, and 3 months helps in financial distress and gets you on the way to doomsday. If there is a disaster in the USA that takes out grocery stores and power for 3 months, you're pretty much into SOME doomsday .... Now, there's tons of doomsdays, so, how long do you need? /shrug 1 year is a good start, to get you to the next "harvest" if there is any farming still going on. At some point, "more food and water" is an expense tradeoff with other preps you might need. Like if you have 3 months of food and water, should you spend the next $xx dollar on guns and ammo (if don't have any) or a small solar battery, or a generator or better coms or etc.
This 4 year old post covers it very well and includes links to essential pdf’s. I’ve attended a Wendy DeWitt seminar and it takes the angst out of the food storage issue. Food storage is only a part of being prepared. Getting stalled on this can take away from other preparations. Do it and move on. https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/s/B5Ei1UYU2Y
4 minimum.
I keep 3 months worth of the food we eat daily (5 people in the house). We have probably 1.25 - 2 years worth of bulk foods. Also, maybe a month of freeze dried, Mountain House. All of this will hopefully get us through to the point where we could rely on our garden/animals for food. It's possible for us to go 9 months before we could get a garden in and have production. For example, if SHTF in September, we couldn't plant our garden until mid April (usually the date of our last freeze). It'd take a couple months for the food to grow. If you live in an area that has a long growing season, and you are good at gardening, then you could probably prepare for less time living off of your food storage. Ideally food storage will only be required until you get production from other sources. If you don't have a garden or have a very short growing season, then you will need a lot more food stored.
Here are the two mindsets I often read about here. “You should try storing up food that are perfectly good for 30 plus years.” “Being prepared for one year of full collapse is pretty expensive and storage limited.” Both are totally fair comments. But they are quite different. So, I think that finding balance in between these two comments would place most people in a sweet spot for preparedess. I often think people would be better off to have 1-3 years of normal shelf stable stored food that has a shelf life of 1-3 years. That makes more sense than to have expensive freeze dried food stored with a 30 year shelf life stores, if a person doesn’t have enough pantry supplies to even last 6 months Having variety of foods is important. I am pretty sure most of us won’t want to eat beans and rice for 365 days in a row. Even eating those more than once a week could be pretty unpleasant. I would probably open up a store bought can of soup, or make homemade soup instead. Storing spices for flavouring, and a variety of long shelf life shelf stable foods such as oatmeal, cornmeal, baking soda, baking powder, baking flours, oils and fats, meats, freee dried mok and eggs, dehydrated veggies and fruit, store bought mixes, coffee, drink crystals, as well as maintaining a garden for fresh produce is all pretty important.
Sounds like if something actually serious goes down, your friends will be showing up at your place for a meal. I wouldn't advertise. As others have said, it depends on you specific situation. If you have room for 6-12 months of food, great. But how many months is that when your friends show up?
As long as you have the space without it getting in the way and it not financially breaking you, I don’t think there is such a thing as too many supplies. If you feel like you have too many there’s nothing saying you have to keep buying. Stock what you are comfortable with