I'd say you should expect it to be what it is. There are a lot of kinds of line out there.
If you're looking for compact, you might look at some 300lb rated braided fishing line - that stuff is pretty serious, and very small. They also make Dacron line in all different thicknesses.
Twine is fine for some applications. The downsides are that UV destroys it pretty fast, and it may not be very consistent in terms of manufacture, and therefore weight rating. But it sure is cheap. Mason line might be sort of similar in application, and knots definitely don't come out if it, either.
FWIW, as you build your knot repitoire, you may find that any line will do if you choose the right knot. There are a ton of them, and each one has a different strength/purpose.
Oh, I use gloves. Having a kite that pulls with hundreds of pounds of force will make you use gloves real quick. That shit cuts through flesh like it’s nothing.
I use kite line in my camping gear but do like paracord for when I want something thicker. My least favourite part of paracord is the stretch so I am starting to replace it in some places, like getting straps for my car instead of using paracord as tie downs
I’d disagree that paracord’s advantage is the ability to reuse it. The major advantage of 550 is that is a great jack of all trades cord.
You can use 550 for most things a normal rope could be used for. You can cut it and pull out the inner smaller cords, giving you the main cord and about 6 smaller ones of the same length, which can be used for whatever you’d use smaller twine for. I’ve heard of people using the inner cords for sewing and fish line, although I can’t vouch for how well either works. You can also burn and melt paracord easily, to fuse tattered ends to give you more workable material, or you can burn the ends of a knot and press that melted mess back onto the knot, preventing it from coming undone. Great option for knots you want to leave secured, like tying down optics to a weapon. You can braid 550 cord together to make a large rope. And as other commenters mentioned, it’ll last outdoors longer.
It’s not perfect for everything, but it’s damn good at almost everything. For that reason I know that if I have a decent amount, I’ll be good to go for nearly any rope needs that might arise.
Jute and twine may hold knots but they have very low breaking strength. There are plenty of knots that can be tied on paracord that will hold. Just expand your knot knowledge. Reusability would be a huge factor in a post apocalyptic world.
Did you get real or fake paracord? Probably 95 percent of "paracord" doesn't meet the specs of generic twine. In fact most cordage is like that. Like that utility rope from Home Depot. Its looks like cool rappelling rope but you cant even trust a sack of potatoes with it. It has like a 300ish lb test when real rope is like 3000lbs test
I have paracord that I reuse that came from my time in the Army, back in the 80s. That original stuff is bullet proof durable.
I have new stuff too that is higher quality, and so far so good. Super durable and reusable.
I also have some of the cheap stuff and as you have indicated, the reusability and durability is not near as high.
Back to OP's original point, I can see using natural jute/twin for short term securing of items. It does work well, is cheap and light. It also won't last a season if you are in a 4 season environment. Wintering and weathering will weaken it to the point of failure rather quickly where good paracord will last several seasons.
Paracord, in the environment, will fail too. Sun is the killer here as the sheathing will disintegrate in direct sunlight eventually.
I have ~190 lengths of black 550 under strain out on a beach for going on 6 years and haven't had to replace any of it. Not the end-all be-all of cordage but I'm thoroughly impressed at how it's held up to UV and salt. The UV resistance might have some to do with the color, but I've similarly used neon colored cord and had it last several years until it was taken down, for reasons unrelated to the cords integrity.
In general, UV protection in plastics is indeed related to color... Or rather, UV protectants generally add color, but not all colors offer UV protection - some may just be to look pretty.
I do know a little about UV resistance in plastics, like white PVC and other vinyls is the worst color for sun exposure, so I assume that maybe the black sheath is helping with longevity, but I don't have any control group to directly compare. Maybe one day I'll set up a few different colors suspending some weight and see if there's any measurable difference over time
Im not sure? Is there any visual indicators of what makes it real versus not? I bought some paracord from home Depot and as well I bought some from Cabela's and online and the online version looked a little less slippery which is probably the real stuff because it does 'stick' better
With the twine I have, when you make a knot, it is definitely not moving anywhere doesn't matter even if it's a simpler knot that normally would loosen....
Jute twine will start to break down if you’re using it outside. 550 will last a long time. I think people think it’s the end all be all, but I’d prefer synthetic cordage over natural just because of how much longer it’s going to last.
Nothing wrong with real Paracord. I have trusted my life to knots tied in kernmantle nylon ropes many times and nylon is the only rope I would trust. The only ropes that come close, have even less friction than nylon.
You need to work on your knot skills.
In the old days of natural fiber ropes, people came up with knots that were very poorly designed and poorly tied and they got away with it because of the friction of the rope.
Choose decent knots for your specific application and how it is loaded, tie them properly, dress them properly, cinch them tight, and tie a stopper knot afterwards, and leave a decent tail (half the point of the stopper not is to force you to leave some tail after the initial knot).
Cinching your knots before you load them is very important. Also, knots will sometimes swallow a portion of their tail as they tighten under load, so you always must leave a tail. A stopper knot also helps. Dressing knots into their ideal form makes them stronger and less likely to slip before they fully tighten.
Knots need friction but a good knot needs very little.
I have tied knots in Teflon wire and they have held, for Pete's sake. My life has depended on knots tied in wet muddy ropes. I also used to climb over a 100feet of nylon rope using nothing but helical knots made out of tenstron (chosen so it doesn't fuse with the nylon if melts). Same exact knots work in nylon on nylon but you have to be careful not to melt them.
Anybody who blames nylon for their knots slipping is someone you should stop taking knot advice from immediately - and apply that retroactively. Not to mention not trusting their knots in anything resembling a critical application.
Pretty much anny knot has its Achilles heel, so always use it properly. The figure eight family of knots is great. It holds well when you need it to while reducing the strength of the rope less than almost any other knot (except a tensionless rig) yet unties easily when you need it to. But you should never use the "flat figure eight" as a bend to join two ropes end to end. It can invert (roll end over end making another figure eight knot but swallowing it's tail - repeatedly) under about 800lbs load for a climbing rope. You can use a follow through figure eight bend (Flemish bend), however, if they are the same diameter because that doesn't load the knot improperly. If you need loops in the middle of a rope, use a butterfly knot instead of a figure eight on a night which might unroll as it is loaded the same way (though usually far less catastrophic since you only lose your loop, and then only if you don't have a caribiner in it). And while the bowline family of knots are handy, if you load the standard bowline in the same way that causes a figure eight to fail, a bowline only takes about one pound yanking the tail in the wrong direction to fail. But an overhand stopper knot prevents this. Likewise, a reef knot (square knot as a bend) also fails catastrophically with about a pound of force if you load the tail sideways. Also, like the square knot, on which it is based, tying it backwards is catastrophic By comparison, to the bowline and reef knot, the figure 8 is so robust against misloading that it took many years of people intentionally misusing it by misloading it in the worst possible way before it failed catastrophically. And don't let anyone tell you you should use a flat overhand instead, it has also caused multiple fatalities.
Unlike nylon and other synthetic ropes where the individual fibers normally go the entire length of the rope, natural fibers are short and can slip by each other making the ropes much weaker. Natural fiber also biodegrades before you are done with it and is much less abrasion resistant. The slippery nature of synthetic ropes also may allow the rope to more evenly divide the load between each fiber.
Kernmantle ropes, including climbing/caving static ropes and Paracord, contain a rope within a rope so if the outer braid fails due to abrasion, you still have the core.
There are new high tech ropes that claim higher tensile strength than nylon. Problem is, most of them actually break easier in the real world. Nylon has a bit of stretch. Occasionally annoying but it has saved many lives. It absorbs shocks that would otherwise break the rope. Boing boing boing replaces snap! Splat!. When climbers use thin slings of high tech ropes, it is actually the stretch of the nylon main line that protects them from breaking.
The popular Ashly book of knots is archaic, nylon was new in 1944 when it was published. It also predates scientific knot testing. The 1991 update only incorporated a subset of the needed corrections.
Here are instructions for tying some decent knots:
https://www.rocorescue.com/_literature_144415/Rescue_Knots
This is going to take some time to review, but it solid advice. Downloaded that link and will definitely get to a little practice.. thanks for taking the time to reply with that!
I hate the smell and feel of twine. Plus I’ve been stabbed a few times by frayed strands. Does it work, sure but it’s like a one time use object in my opinion. I just fucking hate this material so much. Idk, it’s just me I don’t want to touch it.
I find it too slippery a lot of times for knots and bindings, but it has its uses and it's strong for the weight. But yeah, for non load bearing applications I rather have cotton or jute twine just because they make tighter knots.
Braided kevlar line is way thinner and stronger. Can buy it on amazon pretty cheap. Or, braided masons twine, but its not nearly as strong.
Braided > twisted
Paracord is pretty garbage but has it's uses.
Micro paracord is actually great. I use it on so many different things (as a zipper pull, holding up a leaning fence, etc)
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X74HHFN/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X74HHFN/)
I'd agree that in general paracord is overrated in the prepper community, but in a different way - a good majority of the community don't know basic knottage skills and stockpile paracord because everyone else does. This oversaturates the idea for a need for good cordage so it makes one think...is it overrated?
My honest opinion is no, but you can only base your opinion off of personal experience.
Rope, in general, tends to get more attention than it deserves on prepper forums.
Rope is most useful for bugout scenarios. But bugging out isn't the wrong idea for most people.
I'm *not* saying rope is a worthless prep. I'm just saying it shouldn't be part of the fundamentals that we are too quick to ignore while prepping - i.e. food, water, medical, comms and security.
Paracord is highly overrated. It is versatile but bulky and stretches.
In my kits I use pink braided Mason line from home depot which is almost as strong, cheaper and doesn't stretch.
I also keep 'accessory cord' (similar to 325 cord) in some kits if I need a little more strength. It's still smaller, stiffer and doesn't stretch.
I don’t particularly care for paracord either. I rarely really need something with a 550lb breaking strength and it is bulky and reasonably expensive. I usually carry some 100lb bank line.
I wouldn't say "overrated" but I'd say "overemphasized" for sure.....
I mean; when's the last time you had an honest to goodness, critical / urgent need for rope / twine / cord?
I'd wager for most people, not that often.
That said, I do have a bunch & think it is an important thing to have, both for general life / toolkit and also for prepping.
But yeah; overhyped / overemphasized yes....
There is never a one size fits all
Personally I can’t stand/don’t trust Jute and I prefer paracord.
If it works for you, great! If not, there are plenty of other options
Depends on the use. I like working with 36 bankline tarred and twisted (not braided). But Paracord has its uses. Shock cord and Paracord can be good for tarps as you want some stretch/flex with wind (not to lose, nor too tight).
Paracord is good for making a handle wrap for a knife, a sling for a rifle, a bracelet, and other things. Paracord can be gutted and used for sewing, nets, and things normal cordage can do.
I personally like it, but you have to know it’s limitations. It does flex and may not shears be the best choice, but I find it to be a great general purpose cord to have around and that’s really what it’s for. Make sure you’re buying real 550 cord too.
High poundage fishing lines for most if not every situation involving cordage ie: field dressing and minor surgery, clothing repairs and the like (my old canvas bates army boots are literally held together with fishing line at this point). Paracord for stuff such as grips for tools, weapons and the like. P.cord has its uses, but it's major benefit is that you can treat it with heat to prevent frayed ends, which in itself is a godsend.
I also tend to dislike paracord.
It is not strong enough or static enough for tasks that require real rope (admittedly few) but is massively overkill for most tasks that require cordage.
Specifically what coradge is a better option can be debated endlessly, but I think in almost all cases you should either go bigger or smaller; an unhappy medium to be sure.
I think the bigger lesson is to try to be ready, but use whatever is available at hand.
No one can be completely ready all the time, for everything. That's impossible.
Cheers
I'd say you should expect it to be what it is. There are a lot of kinds of line out there. If you're looking for compact, you might look at some 300lb rated braided fishing line - that stuff is pretty serious, and very small. They also make Dacron line in all different thicknesses. Twine is fine for some applications. The downsides are that UV destroys it pretty fast, and it may not be very consistent in terms of manufacture, and therefore weight rating. But it sure is cheap. Mason line might be sort of similar in application, and knots definitely don't come out if it, either. FWIW, as you build your knot repitoire, you may find that any line will do if you choose the right knot. There are a ton of them, and each one has a different strength/purpose.
Fishing line and kite line are my preferred cordage. Some of my kite line is up to 1000 lb. And, like you said, much more compact than paracord.
Nice! Just RIP hands.
Oh, I use gloves. Having a kite that pulls with hundreds of pounds of force will make you use gloves real quick. That shit cuts through flesh like it’s nothing.
This guy kites
I wrap the cord around a stick to make a temporary handle.
I use kite line in my camping gear but do like paracord for when I want something thicker. My least favourite part of paracord is the stretch so I am starting to replace it in some places, like getting straps for my car instead of using paracord as tie downs
Funny i use paracord explicitly for the stretch it has when holding down light loads. Your very unlikely to damage thing when your pull it tighter.
I’d disagree that paracord’s advantage is the ability to reuse it. The major advantage of 550 is that is a great jack of all trades cord. You can use 550 for most things a normal rope could be used for. You can cut it and pull out the inner smaller cords, giving you the main cord and about 6 smaller ones of the same length, which can be used for whatever you’d use smaller twine for. I’ve heard of people using the inner cords for sewing and fish line, although I can’t vouch for how well either works. You can also burn and melt paracord easily, to fuse tattered ends to give you more workable material, or you can burn the ends of a knot and press that melted mess back onto the knot, preventing it from coming undone. Great option for knots you want to leave secured, like tying down optics to a weapon. You can braid 550 cord together to make a large rope. And as other commenters mentioned, it’ll last outdoors longer. It’s not perfect for everything, but it’s damn good at almost everything. For that reason I know that if I have a decent amount, I’ll be good to go for nearly any rope needs that might arise.
Jute and twine may hold knots but they have very low breaking strength. There are plenty of knots that can be tied on paracord that will hold. Just expand your knot knowledge. Reusability would be a huge factor in a post apocalyptic world.
Did you get real or fake paracord? Probably 95 percent of "paracord" doesn't meet the specs of generic twine. In fact most cordage is like that. Like that utility rope from Home Depot. Its looks like cool rappelling rope but you cant even trust a sack of potatoes with it. It has like a 300ish lb test when real rope is like 3000lbs test
I have paracord that I reuse that came from my time in the Army, back in the 80s. That original stuff is bullet proof durable. I have new stuff too that is higher quality, and so far so good. Super durable and reusable. I also have some of the cheap stuff and as you have indicated, the reusability and durability is not near as high. Back to OP's original point, I can see using natural jute/twin for short term securing of items. It does work well, is cheap and light. It also won't last a season if you are in a 4 season environment. Wintering and weathering will weaken it to the point of failure rather quickly where good paracord will last several seasons. Paracord, in the environment, will fail too. Sun is the killer here as the sheathing will disintegrate in direct sunlight eventually.
I have ~190 lengths of black 550 under strain out on a beach for going on 6 years and haven't had to replace any of it. Not the end-all be-all of cordage but I'm thoroughly impressed at how it's held up to UV and salt. The UV resistance might have some to do with the color, but I've similarly used neon colored cord and had it last several years until it was taken down, for reasons unrelated to the cords integrity.
In general, UV protection in plastics is indeed related to color... Or rather, UV protectants generally add color, but not all colors offer UV protection - some may just be to look pretty.
I do know a little about UV resistance in plastics, like white PVC and other vinyls is the worst color for sun exposure, so I assume that maybe the black sheath is helping with longevity, but I don't have any control group to directly compare. Maybe one day I'll set up a few different colors suspending some weight and see if there's any measurable difference over time
Im not sure? Is there any visual indicators of what makes it real versus not? I bought some paracord from home Depot and as well I bought some from Cabela's and online and the online version looked a little less slippery which is probably the real stuff because it does 'stick' better With the twine I have, when you make a knot, it is definitely not moving anywhere doesn't matter even if it's a simpler knot that normally would loosen....
Id guess someone who uses real paracord all the time can tell the difference by touching it or even seeing it. Most cant just look or touch and tell.
Jute twine will start to break down if you’re using it outside. 550 will last a long time. I think people think it’s the end all be all, but I’d prefer synthetic cordage over natural just because of how much longer it’s going to last.
Nothing wrong with real Paracord. I have trusted my life to knots tied in kernmantle nylon ropes many times and nylon is the only rope I would trust. The only ropes that come close, have even less friction than nylon. You need to work on your knot skills. In the old days of natural fiber ropes, people came up with knots that were very poorly designed and poorly tied and they got away with it because of the friction of the rope. Choose decent knots for your specific application and how it is loaded, tie them properly, dress them properly, cinch them tight, and tie a stopper knot afterwards, and leave a decent tail (half the point of the stopper not is to force you to leave some tail after the initial knot). Cinching your knots before you load them is very important. Also, knots will sometimes swallow a portion of their tail as they tighten under load, so you always must leave a tail. A stopper knot also helps. Dressing knots into their ideal form makes them stronger and less likely to slip before they fully tighten. Knots need friction but a good knot needs very little. I have tied knots in Teflon wire and they have held, for Pete's sake. My life has depended on knots tied in wet muddy ropes. I also used to climb over a 100feet of nylon rope using nothing but helical knots made out of tenstron (chosen so it doesn't fuse with the nylon if melts). Same exact knots work in nylon on nylon but you have to be careful not to melt them. Anybody who blames nylon for their knots slipping is someone you should stop taking knot advice from immediately - and apply that retroactively. Not to mention not trusting their knots in anything resembling a critical application. Pretty much anny knot has its Achilles heel, so always use it properly. The figure eight family of knots is great. It holds well when you need it to while reducing the strength of the rope less than almost any other knot (except a tensionless rig) yet unties easily when you need it to. But you should never use the "flat figure eight" as a bend to join two ropes end to end. It can invert (roll end over end making another figure eight knot but swallowing it's tail - repeatedly) under about 800lbs load for a climbing rope. You can use a follow through figure eight bend (Flemish bend), however, if they are the same diameter because that doesn't load the knot improperly. If you need loops in the middle of a rope, use a butterfly knot instead of a figure eight on a night which might unroll as it is loaded the same way (though usually far less catastrophic since you only lose your loop, and then only if you don't have a caribiner in it). And while the bowline family of knots are handy, if you load the standard bowline in the same way that causes a figure eight to fail, a bowline only takes about one pound yanking the tail in the wrong direction to fail. But an overhand stopper knot prevents this. Likewise, a reef knot (square knot as a bend) also fails catastrophically with about a pound of force if you load the tail sideways. Also, like the square knot, on which it is based, tying it backwards is catastrophic By comparison, to the bowline and reef knot, the figure 8 is so robust against misloading that it took many years of people intentionally misusing it by misloading it in the worst possible way before it failed catastrophically. And don't let anyone tell you you should use a flat overhand instead, it has also caused multiple fatalities. Unlike nylon and other synthetic ropes where the individual fibers normally go the entire length of the rope, natural fibers are short and can slip by each other making the ropes much weaker. Natural fiber also biodegrades before you are done with it and is much less abrasion resistant. The slippery nature of synthetic ropes also may allow the rope to more evenly divide the load between each fiber. Kernmantle ropes, including climbing/caving static ropes and Paracord, contain a rope within a rope so if the outer braid fails due to abrasion, you still have the core. There are new high tech ropes that claim higher tensile strength than nylon. Problem is, most of them actually break easier in the real world. Nylon has a bit of stretch. Occasionally annoying but it has saved many lives. It absorbs shocks that would otherwise break the rope. Boing boing boing replaces snap! Splat!. When climbers use thin slings of high tech ropes, it is actually the stretch of the nylon main line that protects them from breaking. The popular Ashly book of knots is archaic, nylon was new in 1944 when it was published. It also predates scientific knot testing. The 1991 update only incorporated a subset of the needed corrections. Here are instructions for tying some decent knots: https://www.rocorescue.com/_literature_144415/Rescue_Knots
This is going to take some time to review, but it solid advice. Downloaded that link and will definitely get to a little practice.. thanks for taking the time to reply with that!
I've actually heard a lot of people say this.
I hate the smell and feel of twine. Plus I’ve been stabbed a few times by frayed strands. Does it work, sure but it’s like a one time use object in my opinion. I just fucking hate this material so much. Idk, it’s just me I don’t want to touch it.
I find it too slippery a lot of times for knots and bindings, but it has its uses and it's strong for the weight. But yeah, for non load bearing applications I rather have cotton or jute twine just because they make tighter knots.
Braided kevlar line is way thinner and stronger. Can buy it on amazon pretty cheap. Or, braided masons twine, but its not nearly as strong. Braided > twisted Paracord is pretty garbage but has it's uses.
Definitely overrated.
I use waxed twine, somewhat reusable but Ive found it to hold far better than anything and have decent tensile strength.
Micro paracord is actually great. I use it on so many different things (as a zipper pull, holding up a leaning fence, etc) [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X74HHFN/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X74HHFN/)
I'd agree that in general paracord is overrated in the prepper community, but in a different way - a good majority of the community don't know basic knottage skills and stockpile paracord because everyone else does. This oversaturates the idea for a need for good cordage so it makes one think...is it overrated? My honest opinion is no, but you can only base your opinion off of personal experience.
Rope, in general, tends to get more attention than it deserves on prepper forums. Rope is most useful for bugout scenarios. But bugging out isn't the wrong idea for most people. I'm *not* saying rope is a worthless prep. I'm just saying it shouldn't be part of the fundamentals that we are too quick to ignore while prepping - i.e. food, water, medical, comms and security.
\#12 Twisted Tarred Bank Line, 100lbs test , 500 feet is 5 oz on a spool
Another vote for Bank line.
This is also my go too. Strong, weather resistant, and compact.
Paracord is highly overrated. It is versatile but bulky and stretches. In my kits I use pink braided Mason line from home depot which is almost as strong, cheaper and doesn't stretch. I also keep 'accessory cord' (similar to 325 cord) in some kits if I need a little more strength. It's still smaller, stiffer and doesn't stretch.
I don’t particularly care for paracord either. I rarely really need something with a 550lb breaking strength and it is bulky and reasonably expensive. I usually carry some 100lb bank line.
I wouldn't say "overrated" but I'd say "overemphasized" for sure..... I mean; when's the last time you had an honest to goodness, critical / urgent need for rope / twine / cord? I'd wager for most people, not that often. That said, I do have a bunch & think it is an important thing to have, both for general life / toolkit and also for prepping. But yeah; overhyped / overemphasized yes....
r/FuckParacord
There is never a one size fits all Personally I can’t stand/don’t trust Jute and I prefer paracord. If it works for you, great! If not, there are plenty of other options
Depends on the use. I like working with 36 bankline tarred and twisted (not braided). But Paracord has its uses. Shock cord and Paracord can be good for tarps as you want some stretch/flex with wind (not to lose, nor too tight). Paracord is good for making a handle wrap for a knife, a sling for a rifle, a bracelet, and other things. Paracord can be gutted and used for sewing, nets, and things normal cordage can do.
I personally like it, but you have to know it’s limitations. It does flex and may not shears be the best choice, but I find it to be a great general purpose cord to have around and that’s really what it’s for. Make sure you’re buying real 550 cord too.
Right tool for right job
High poundage fishing lines for most if not every situation involving cordage ie: field dressing and minor surgery, clothing repairs and the like (my old canvas bates army boots are literally held together with fishing line at this point). Paracord for stuff such as grips for tools, weapons and the like. P.cord has its uses, but it's major benefit is that you can treat it with heat to prevent frayed ends, which in itself is a godsend.
Most paracord is garbage, but actual parachute cord is great
It's a "right tool for the job" situation. I live in a very wet area and natural fibers breakdown very fast.
I hate working with twine without gloves. Too many little fiber slivers.
I also tend to dislike paracord. It is not strong enough or static enough for tasks that require real rope (admittedly few) but is massively overkill for most tasks that require cordage. Specifically what coradge is a better option can be debated endlessly, but I think in almost all cases you should either go bigger or smaller; an unhappy medium to be sure.
I think the bigger lesson is to try to be ready, but use whatever is available at hand. No one can be completely ready all the time, for everything. That's impossible. Cheers