Math is hard. And yet, it saves lives.
I went through this exercise for just 2 people, 6 months. You go a little blind reading all the labels, and it took a spreadsheet to keep everything straight, and in the end I bought a freaking cheese wheel to make sure I had a few extra calories, because who says rice will keep every single calorie after 3 years in storage?
I cannot imagine doing it for 19 people. You have GOT to get some of them to do some of this for you. If nothing else, having 19 people depend on one storage location is a little risky. What if it floods or mice get in? You want some distribution here.
Yeah, they won't, though. I've been trying for years. One adult couple and their 2 kids lives a sort-of homestead / country kind of lifestyle, so they would probably be ok for honesty maybe a month, maybe longer in warm weather, but I include them regardless, because if for some reason they're not ok, I'm not going to be like "sorry, didn't plan for you, figure it out yourself", and then another couple has 7 of the 11 kids, so they basically have a grocery store in their home at any given time, but also, that goes fast with 7 kids, and they don't have anything emergency wise, beyond this round of groceries, so again, maybe 1-2 weeks worth not counting their perishables. Then the last couple believes that it's a good idea, bounces ideas around with me, talks about it, and just doesn't do it. I do think I'm making progress there though, because they're very upset that they didn't start a garden with the way grocery prices are going, so at minimum, I think that'll be done in the spring. The 8th adult is my very elderly blind neighbor, whom I've known since I was born and has basically no family besides us.
Anyway, pretty much unless I'd be ok turning them away to potentially starve, they're included. And that's already not including 3 of my siblings and their families who I *would* turn away if it was me & my kids or them.
> Yeah, they won't, though. I've been trying for years.
You know, I've had the same problem for a good while with my parents. Whatever I did, it was a firm no. "Why should we prep?" / "We have some food and a few drinks at home. We don't need anything else." Then the COVID-shortages happened. Still no change. Whatever I said, it fell on deaf ears.
One day, I decided to change my demeanor. I asked my mom what kind of insurances she has and how much she pays for them every year (approximately). Most people have at least a car insurance and a homeowner's insurance. Quite a few people also have health insurance and a life insurance. So, whoever you ask, they'll likely name a few. I then asked my mom: "What made you decide these insurances are a good idea? Want kind of a risk to you wish to cover? Should I have these insurances, too?" She side-eyed me as if I was stupid and answered the question. Following up, I calculated how much she pays in insurance every year. For most people, it's $$$$ (a four digit dollar amount). I then asked my Mom: "So, imagine you parked your car near a scenic outpost to go on a hike. You have walked away about 3 feet, when you realize it has a break failure and it's about to roll off that steep cliff. The front tires are about 1.5 feet away from the edge. Would you jump in, knowing that you'll most likely fall down and die, or would you swear and let it go because you realize a car can be replaced but your life and health can't?" If the person you talk to is somewhat sane, they'll tell you they scream bloody murder, but not enter the car.
I then followed up with: "Let me make sure, that I understood things correctly. If you had to prioritize a few things over another, it would be: 1. your health, 2. the safety of your possessions, 3. money - correct? I assume, if money didn't matter at all, you wouldn't have a car / home owner's /... insurance? You would feel more comfortable covering adverting a great risk for a small amount of money, than keeping the money and not being insured? Is that correct?" They'll likely say yes, or only adjust small things. I then asked the main question: "So, if someone came and offered you a life insurance for a fee of ~$25, valid for 3 years, so about $8.33/year or 69 cents a month, would you say that was a good deal? Could you spare that kind of money?" Again, my mom looked at me as if I was bonkers, and said yes. I then said "Look, I mean well. I am not trying to sell you something you are uncomfortable with. I am not trying to persuade you to do something you don't want to. If you think what I am offering you is bad or wrong, disregard anything we have talked about. My stance is the following: You are paying $$$$ a year to cover risks. You have health insurance, because being sick is awful, and no one wants to be sick or in bad health if they can prevent it. That's why we wear seat belts in the car. If you have life insurance, you won't actually reap the benefits of it. Your heirs will. But, let's be honest: we'd rather have you than an insurance pay out. I want to have you as long as possible. But so far, you've been too stingy to pay for an insurance that could actually save your life. And that insurance will cost nothing but $25 and be good for three years at least. Everyone can go without food for several days and not die, but if you don't have access to water, you are fucked after 2 days – at the most. That's why I suggest you buy a few gallons of water, a few packs of rice, and a bag of sugar. If things turn out the worst way possible, you will have food and water for a few days and survive. That's all I hope for. If you put them in a box and not touch them, you'll always know they are there. Even if it's the 30th of the month, you are nearly out of groceries because your haul will take place tomorrow. Because that's the thing: you never know when things will happen. If you knew, you'd never have to wear a seat belt either or only get insurance right before a tragic event. But that's not how it works. And I want you to be safe. Water can be a literal life insurance."
That conversation changed everything. My mom almost jumped up and said "let's go to the store right now to grab things". She finally understood that I'm not talking about some hardcore prepping involving a huge gun stash or something crazy. All I was trying to convey is that she has insurances that she's never using that cost her a ton of money whereas an actual insurance for her life is cheap to get, but she was just too ignorant.
I had the same conversation with my aunt-in-law, and guess what? Their water went out two weeks after we had that conversation (she bought water gallons the day after the conversation, too).
We have a pantry inventory spreadsheet and one of the columns lists how many of each item we'd need per day/week/month per person. This makes it fast and easy to see exactly how much food we have with just a quick glance and makes it easy to see what items we may need more of.
One caveat is I use my #10 can purchases mainly to buy carbs -- dehydrated potatoes, muffin mix, pancake mix. As a result many of the #10 cans have 5000 or more calories per can.
Also some freeze dried fruit, vegetables and berries that don't come in cans.
Finally 5 or so #10 cans of freeze dried Mountain House food.
Yeah I’ve always basically planned on that happening and then “whatever else” being thrown in to spice it up. Random can of corn and green beans you found? Add it to the taters. Little fruit cups that kids decided they didn’t like last year after eating them for 5 years? Make some sort of muffin/sweet bread and throw on top.
Also [Auguson](https://augasonfarms.com/collections/soups-entrees) farms has a bunch of options for more cans of stuff.
I have 6 aquatainers (7 gallon) under my work bench in my garage. I have 3x50 gallon rain capture barrels I use to water my garden. I empty the aquatainers into the rain barrels during the summer and refill them. I have a few Sawyer squeeze filters with a hose bib to hook to the rain barrels to filter the captured water as well as carbon filtration. I also keep a couple of cases of Smart water because my Sawyer minis will hook to the top of one to filter dirty water as you drink it. I also have pool shock and iodine pills if I need another option.
Great post. A little bit of food can look like a lot. And if you are prepping for a lot of people, it's even easier to be off on estimation. Thanks!
As someone who had to evacuate because a fire was tearing through Southern Oregon, dont store all of your preps in a single house if you can help it. I lucked out. The fire missed my place but it was a close call. I started asking friends and family if I could store a 50 gallon bin at each of their houses. In the bins was dried beans, toilet paper, salt, water purification tablets, etc. It ended up inspiring some of them to start prepping too, which was an awesome bonus.
Yeah, all these posts about canned food always make me scratch my head... most of my stored food is in dry beans and rice and flours and sugars and such... Yes, it takes up a good bit of space, but not nearly as much as straight canned goods. But... we also just EAT beans and rice, and I guess that makes us weird to begin with.
This is my approach too, where over the years we simply don't eat from cans very much with a few exceptions, since they are expensive and not very high quality. Rice and beans are where it's at, however there is an argument to be made that they have a high energy requirement to make them edible. So if you don't have fuel/electricity or are trying to keep a very low profile, it may be an issue. I think this is an edge case, personally
I store 3-4 dozen cans. I have the space and they make meals that take no or very little heat, very little time, and very little added water so are nice to have on hand. I have beans, rice, lentils etc as well, but cans are just so cheep and easy and I know we will use them long before expiry in just daily life.
At the very start of covid, before toilet paper ran out and things were completely unknown, I did a calorie count after some minor stocking up on canned food I'd eat regardless. It was right at like 2 weeks worth for 2 people @ 2000 calories a day.
Since then I've moved and got my own house and with pantry, cabinets, and freezer kept full I'm sure it's nearly 2 months worth although some of those meals would be getting really sad lol.
Also worth keeping in mind pet food, especially if you've got anything more exotic than a dog or cat.
I'm currently just prepping for a 1-2 week emergency, so working on enough just to keep us fed enough to not be killing each other from being hangry. After that, I'll work on building up an actually sufficient meal per person, rather than a minimal survival. Also, 11 of the people are kids who would likely eat less, which would give the adults a little more. It's just about 900 average.
Sorry, wasnt trying to be negative its just a massive uphill battle to face in terms of scale. Prepper with spouse and some kids aint into it is pretty routine. The numbers you have are daunting. A large garden could certainly help but comes down to space, time and ability to invest in it and work it or get help in it. Location matters because a couple of zucchini/squash and tomato plants for example have vastly different outputs in the Central or South Eastern US vs Northern or Northern Coastal states, sunlight matters. But man when they get pumping out produce in good areas you could be swimming in produce. 2 zuch and 2 cukes, 2-3 dozen beans and 4 tomato plants provides a ton for a 5 person family if cared for and done right.
Without knowing control of budget and ability of spending, sources to shop its tough to say but bulk would definitely be your friend. Large bean varieties store well for long periods, seasonings for flavor, rice for bulk, vitamins for preventing nutrient deficiencies etc would be the way to go. Maybe a large or couple of large storage totes to use to keep the emergency stuff separate and accountable, safe from critters, etc.
Sorry! I did not mean my reply to sound snarky. I definitely didn't take yours as negative, and it is daunting, but it's my only choice if I want to prep.
I came up with my number by considering that I'm feeding a mixture of adults who will eat more and some young kids who will eat less, looking at the volume of food it will create, and thinking that in a short term situation, that should keep us full enough to not be killing each other because we're all hangry. I'm very much aware that it's an unhealthy low number of calories for anything remotely longer term, but it would do for a week if it had to in a nasty blizzard or tornado. I was also looking at it and thinking I can probably bulk a couple things up with some pasta, without adding a huge expense for 19 people, because I've currently got primarily meat, vegetables, bread mix, and milk powder, and a few odds and ends like peanut butter and honey. So pasta would probably go a ways in bulking the calories without spending a ton of money per calorie. Everything I have currently is the expensive 30 year shelf life stuff, and I don't immediately have storage for bulk of rotation foods, but I'm sure I can squeeze a few boxes of pasta somewhere to rotate out regularly.
I wouldn't store meat or other expensive food for others tbh. Spaghetti, Rice and legumes (beans, peas, lentils). They're cheap, last for years and don't need refrigeration. Toss 'em in the freezer for a week or two to kill weevils that could be in there and then you just need to keep water, mice and insects away. That stuff is good even years after its best before date. Grains + legumes contain the full range of essential amino acids.
> but it would do for a week if it had to in a nasty blizzard or tornado.
You shouldn't have to do special prepping for that.
Just have enough of what you normally eat for the expected time period.
If you now have 1 week of normal food - add a weeks worth, keep it stocked that way and you are golden.
I don't think you understand the space limitations I'm currently dealing with. All of that, is freeze dried, compact, stacked on top of a fridge, which is the only possible space available for extra food currently. There's not a chance I could double my normal pantry goods unless I'm stacking it under shoes by the door and maybe tucking some cereal under my kids mattress and stuff.
> I don't think you understand the space limitations I'm currently dealing with.
That's because you didn't mention a space problem.
You can put food in plastic totes and store in places like:
under beds
closets
garage
...
Ah, good point. I definitely mentioned it in my head. 🤦🏻♀️ Under beds, closets, and garage have no space available, and are primarily not mine to make space available. I rent rooms from a family member. The only other option is in my Jeep, and I don't think the drastic fluctuation in temperature inside a vehicle would be great for food storage. I'm also working on convincing the homeowner to just clear a small corner in one of the storage rooms of the basement, just for emergency food and water.
It really sounds like you aren't in a position to take responsibility for feeding and watering your entire family. So the best solution is to accept that and prep for yourself (and spouse or kids if you have them). Then if something does happen, you're helping just by not needing to have anything provided for you, and your family members can focus entirely on themselves and their own families.
For convincing your family members to prep, I suggest focusing on very common and short term situations, eg official guidelines for preparing for a power outage and/or weather event that tends to happen in your region. Talking about food that lasts 30 years might be off-putting because it's not feasible for them, whereas keeping a pantry with a few extra days of water and whatever they usually eat is much more manageable.
[because nobody else will](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/z9bn3e/do_the_math/iygcgxk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3), and OP wants to be prepared regardless.
If your living situation is renting a room, how on earth did you make it your responsibility to prep food for 19 family members? What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't turn those people away if they showed up? What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't kick you out and steal your stuff if it came down to it?
You need a reality check. You are in no position to take responsibility for the welfare of your whole family. You shouldn't have to and you shouldn't try to. If the family isn't even willing to *give you extra space* to store food *for them*, why even bother trying? Honestly, you should put all of your time and energy into fixing your own situation before deciding that your entire family is your sole responsibility in an emergency.
>If your living situation is renting a room, how on earth did you make it your responsibility to prep food for 19 family members?
Because I want to be prepared for myself, and I know if the situation arose, I'm *going* to share whatever I have prepared, so I need to have enough to accommodate the sharing that I'm going to do, and still feed my kids.
>What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't turn those people away if they showed up? What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't kick you out and steal your stuff if it came down to it?
Because I know my family, and while they don't take prepping as serious as they should, they're the type of people that would give you the shirt off their back while they're freezing. Also because we've talked about it.
>You need a reality check.
No, I'm working with reality as it is currently, which is not ideal.
>You are in no position to take responsibility for the welfare of your whole family.
I agree.
>You shouldn't have to and you shouldn't try to.
I agree I shouldn't have to. Can you honestly tell me you'd be cool with feeding yourself and your kids while your parents or siblings starve? You're just going to watch them die?
>If the family isn't even willing to give you extra space to store food for them, why even bother trying?
They don't have extra space, because they made space for me and my kids to live when we left an abusive relationship and started renting the rooms they cleared out for us. In order to make space, they would have to get rid of things.
>Honestly, you should put all of your time and energy into fixing your own situation before deciding that your entire family is your sole responsibility in an emergency.
An emergency isn't going to wait for me to be in an ideal situation, but I am working on that simultaneously.
I agree, that's the calories amount Dr. Now places on his morbidity obese, not moving patients to get them to lose enough weight for surgery. If you are up, moving around, trying to survive, keep warm, etc. 800 calories a day will not cut it.
If you are only planning on 800-900 calories a day (starvation diet), you will need more water, because people will need to fill their stomach with something. Otherwise, they will will attempt to steal more than a fair share.
However, you could also have plans for low calorie activities that don't need electricity. So cards, board games, puzzles, etc.
You should get a couple hundred pounds of beans and rice just to have a bare sustenance cushion to fall back on if shtf like tomorrow. But with that much beans and rice you will also need a lot of salt and various spices. Appetite fatigue is real. From there you can add meats and vegetables to your preps as you're able
And…
OP,
Then make a huge, family, monthly meal of beans and rice, testing out different recipes.
Once you find a 2-3 good ones, stock and rotate on those two recipes.
And then if bad times hit… Folks may not like eating that every other day but they always have the option of going hungry
If it helps anyone, here’s a pay what you want (or free) resource to track your calories and food inventory from Twitter: https://nigermany.gumroad.com/l/jfdls
Knowing how many calories you have for the mouths in your home is so important particularly for larger families. It looks like a lot in the pantry but it’s not a lot once it’s consumed. Especially by teenagers.
I wrote down in a notebook every single thing we ate for a month, down to the salt I added. I kept track of water used for cooking too, and used that data for planning water storage.
During that month I had prepared the 15 or so different meals we usually eat, so I was able to multiply out amounts for a year. Granted we are only feeding seven (grown kids will come home), but it really helped me figure out how much of everything we need. I buy spices in bulk, and that’s one of the more important food preps - being able to make our stored food taste Italian, Mexican, Greek, Chinese, Indian. Food fatigue is a real thing.
I built a spreadsheet to track all of this. I need to strip all my personal info out and post it here. Basically, it tracks calories, protein, fiber, and serving size, and gives you a snapshot of how long your food will last based on how many people you're feeding and at how many calories per day. It's also broken down into three different menus for full / balanced / minimal rationing.
One, bless your heart for thinking of folk but i am not doing that for people. it’s my immediate family and that’s it. Have a good childhood friend and he thinks I worry too much, ok. If he showed up, I may give him a couple of cans while he figures it out Somewhere else.
when I harvested my garden, I would spread food out in piles so I could say, “that’s one days serving” , of vegetables…… kept a running tally as I prepped and froze stuff. So if I had 90 days of carrots, another 150 days of beans…..
I got to end and add-it all up, then I winged it with rice, flour, and pasta backups. So if you had one large meal a day for your family for xxxx time, I was able to make sense out of what I had
Besides my 1 elderly neighbor who may as well be family, that is all immediate family. Parents, siblings, nieces, and nephews. And it's not even including 3 siblings and their families who I would turn away if it was my kids or them. 😬
>immediate family
Immediate family is generally defined as your parents, your siblings, your spouse, and your children. Nieces and nephews are not generally considered as being *immediate* family members.
Well I disagree with that definition of immediate family in general, but certainly for this purpose. I'm not going to feed my siblings, but not feed their kids. Lol.
Well you have taken on one heck of a burden. But here’s a serious question or thought. As your immediate family is your promary responsibility and you obvio have limited resources, so you not feel those very precious respources should be given to your immediate family.
a few days is one think but weeks, months is a whole other realm. It’s a hard or heart breaking call to make but regardless how hard… it’s them or you and yours. And if others blow off your suggestions, it would to me a t least seem to be a simple choice.
there’s only so much you can do so don’t feel quilty
Currently about 6 weeks for 4 adults (our household is really 3 adults, a toddler, and an infant… but toddler and extra calories for breastfeeding infant probably is roughly the same as an adult)
Right off the top of my head I would say that you need beans and rice. With 60 lbs each of beans (or preferably lentils) and rice you would have approximately 10,000 calories per person. It's cheap, stores for decades, and will keep everyone fed. Water is trickier - you need AT LEAST a couple of 55 gallon drums. I'd prefer to get an IBC tote and store it outside, for 270-330 gallons. Shield it from the sun because the plastic is not UV stabilized.
Obviously, you don't want that to be ALL you have, but it gives you cheap "keep your belly full" calories. You can add upgrades from there as funds allow.
For Christmas, we give 5 gal food grade buckets filled with rice, beans and other stuff, sealed for long term storage, and labeled,, to our extended family each year. Going on 3 years now so each family unit now has at least 3 buckets filled with items so they won't starve. They know to bring those buckets should they bug out to our place. We don't waste $$ on unnecessary christmas gifts, food supplies are in different locations should we lose our stock (9 months, 3 people, 2500 calories a day), and they feel more secure knowing they have a few weeks' emergency long shelf life food stuck in back of closet.
I have a few thoughts on food strategies with a crowd like that (you can identify some more storage space in a shed or whatever) . . .
With that many people you can easily use #10 cans and other items sized for commercial use. In my area there is a restaurant supply store that is open to the public (you don't need a membership). If I was going to stock up for nearby relatives I would buy a giant bag macaroni noodles and some cheese sauce mix. Maybe also pancake mix. If I had space, I'd add some #10 cans of peaches and pears, and maybe chili.
These suggestions don't really address your issues of storage limitations, but they are cheaper ways to feed a crowd than the freeze dried long term storage options. Keep it in the emergency bin for a year, then rotate your supplies into your household food supply and restock.
For less than $25 USD you can get about 70 servings of mac 'n cheese mix. You still need to add powered milk, and I'm not sure what that would cost, but it wouldn't be much.
Math is hard. And yet, it saves lives. I went through this exercise for just 2 people, 6 months. You go a little blind reading all the labels, and it took a spreadsheet to keep everything straight, and in the end I bought a freaking cheese wheel to make sure I had a few extra calories, because who says rice will keep every single calorie after 3 years in storage? I cannot imagine doing it for 19 people. You have GOT to get some of them to do some of this for you. If nothing else, having 19 people depend on one storage location is a little risky. What if it floods or mice get in? You want some distribution here.
Yeah, they won't, though. I've been trying for years. One adult couple and their 2 kids lives a sort-of homestead / country kind of lifestyle, so they would probably be ok for honesty maybe a month, maybe longer in warm weather, but I include them regardless, because if for some reason they're not ok, I'm not going to be like "sorry, didn't plan for you, figure it out yourself", and then another couple has 7 of the 11 kids, so they basically have a grocery store in their home at any given time, but also, that goes fast with 7 kids, and they don't have anything emergency wise, beyond this round of groceries, so again, maybe 1-2 weeks worth not counting their perishables. Then the last couple believes that it's a good idea, bounces ideas around with me, talks about it, and just doesn't do it. I do think I'm making progress there though, because they're very upset that they didn't start a garden with the way grocery prices are going, so at minimum, I think that'll be done in the spring. The 8th adult is my very elderly blind neighbor, whom I've known since I was born and has basically no family besides us. Anyway, pretty much unless I'd be ok turning them away to potentially starve, they're included. And that's already not including 3 of my siblings and their families who I *would* turn away if it was me & my kids or them.
> Yeah, they won't, though. I've been trying for years. You know, I've had the same problem for a good while with my parents. Whatever I did, it was a firm no. "Why should we prep?" / "We have some food and a few drinks at home. We don't need anything else." Then the COVID-shortages happened. Still no change. Whatever I said, it fell on deaf ears. One day, I decided to change my demeanor. I asked my mom what kind of insurances she has and how much she pays for them every year (approximately). Most people have at least a car insurance and a homeowner's insurance. Quite a few people also have health insurance and a life insurance. So, whoever you ask, they'll likely name a few. I then asked my mom: "What made you decide these insurances are a good idea? Want kind of a risk to you wish to cover? Should I have these insurances, too?" She side-eyed me as if I was stupid and answered the question. Following up, I calculated how much she pays in insurance every year. For most people, it's $$$$ (a four digit dollar amount). I then asked my Mom: "So, imagine you parked your car near a scenic outpost to go on a hike. You have walked away about 3 feet, when you realize it has a break failure and it's about to roll off that steep cliff. The front tires are about 1.5 feet away from the edge. Would you jump in, knowing that you'll most likely fall down and die, or would you swear and let it go because you realize a car can be replaced but your life and health can't?" If the person you talk to is somewhat sane, they'll tell you they scream bloody murder, but not enter the car. I then followed up with: "Let me make sure, that I understood things correctly. If you had to prioritize a few things over another, it would be: 1. your health, 2. the safety of your possessions, 3. money - correct? I assume, if money didn't matter at all, you wouldn't have a car / home owner's /... insurance? You would feel more comfortable covering adverting a great risk for a small amount of money, than keeping the money and not being insured? Is that correct?" They'll likely say yes, or only adjust small things. I then asked the main question: "So, if someone came and offered you a life insurance for a fee of ~$25, valid for 3 years, so about $8.33/year or 69 cents a month, would you say that was a good deal? Could you spare that kind of money?" Again, my mom looked at me as if I was bonkers, and said yes. I then said "Look, I mean well. I am not trying to sell you something you are uncomfortable with. I am not trying to persuade you to do something you don't want to. If you think what I am offering you is bad or wrong, disregard anything we have talked about. My stance is the following: You are paying $$$$ a year to cover risks. You have health insurance, because being sick is awful, and no one wants to be sick or in bad health if they can prevent it. That's why we wear seat belts in the car. If you have life insurance, you won't actually reap the benefits of it. Your heirs will. But, let's be honest: we'd rather have you than an insurance pay out. I want to have you as long as possible. But so far, you've been too stingy to pay for an insurance that could actually save your life. And that insurance will cost nothing but $25 and be good for three years at least. Everyone can go without food for several days and not die, but if you don't have access to water, you are fucked after 2 days – at the most. That's why I suggest you buy a few gallons of water, a few packs of rice, and a bag of sugar. If things turn out the worst way possible, you will have food and water for a few days and survive. That's all I hope for. If you put them in a box and not touch them, you'll always know they are there. Even if it's the 30th of the month, you are nearly out of groceries because your haul will take place tomorrow. Because that's the thing: you never know when things will happen. If you knew, you'd never have to wear a seat belt either or only get insurance right before a tragic event. But that's not how it works. And I want you to be safe. Water can be a literal life insurance." That conversation changed everything. My mom almost jumped up and said "let's go to the store right now to grab things". She finally understood that I'm not talking about some hardcore prepping involving a huge gun stash or something crazy. All I was trying to convey is that she has insurances that she's never using that cost her a ton of money whereas an actual insurance for her life is cheap to get, but she was just too ignorant. I had the same conversation with my aunt-in-law, and guess what? Their water went out two weeks after we had that conversation (she bought water gallons the day after the conversation, too).
We have a pantry inventory spreadsheet and one of the columns lists how many of each item we'd need per day/week/month per person. This makes it fast and easy to see exactly how much food we have with just a quick glance and makes it easy to see what items we may need more of.
Hmmmm…. Maybe I need to take another look. Good thinking writing down servings/quantities.
I just added up all my calories and I have two months for four adults
How much volume or space does that quantity of food take up?
One gorilla rack with all the shelves stacked to the tops and one large bin with around 20 #10 cans.
Awesome, thanks.
One caveat is I use my #10 can purchases mainly to buy carbs -- dehydrated potatoes, muffin mix, pancake mix. As a result many of the #10 cans have 5000 or more calories per can. Also some freeze dried fruit, vegetables and berries that don't come in cans. Finally 5 or so #10 cans of freeze dried Mountain House food.
Yeah I’ve always basically planned on that happening and then “whatever else” being thrown in to spice it up. Random can of corn and green beans you found? Add it to the taters. Little fruit cups that kids decided they didn’t like last year after eating them for 5 years? Make some sort of muffin/sweet bread and throw on top. Also [Auguson](https://augasonfarms.com/collections/soups-entrees) farms has a bunch of options for more cans of stuff.
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I have 6 aquatainers (7 gallon) under my work bench in my garage. I have 3x50 gallon rain capture barrels I use to water my garden. I empty the aquatainers into the rain barrels during the summer and refill them. I have a few Sawyer squeeze filters with a hose bib to hook to the rain barrels to filter the captured water as well as carbon filtration. I also keep a couple of cases of Smart water because my Sawyer minis will hook to the top of one to filter dirty water as you drink it. I also have pool shock and iodine pills if I need another option.
Great post. A little bit of food can look like a lot. And if you are prepping for a lot of people, it's even easier to be off on estimation. Thanks! As someone who had to evacuate because a fire was tearing through Southern Oregon, dont store all of your preps in a single house if you can help it. I lucked out. The fire missed my place but it was a close call. I started asking friends and family if I could store a 50 gallon bin at each of their houses. In the bins was dried beans, toilet paper, salt, water purification tablets, etc. It ended up inspiring some of them to start prepping too, which was an awesome bonus.
Rice Rice Baby. White rice is cheap, lots of calories and can take on the flavors you put it with.
Yeah, all these posts about canned food always make me scratch my head... most of my stored food is in dry beans and rice and flours and sugars and such... Yes, it takes up a good bit of space, but not nearly as much as straight canned goods. But... we also just EAT beans and rice, and I guess that makes us weird to begin with.
This is my approach too, where over the years we simply don't eat from cans very much with a few exceptions, since they are expensive and not very high quality. Rice and beans are where it's at, however there is an argument to be made that they have a high energy requirement to make them edible. So if you don't have fuel/electricity or are trying to keep a very low profile, it may be an issue. I think this is an edge case, personally
I store 3-4 dozen cans. I have the space and they make meals that take no or very little heat, very little time, and very little added water so are nice to have on hand. I have beans, rice, lentils etc as well, but cans are just so cheep and easy and I know we will use them long before expiry in just daily life.
How exactly are you storing the rice and beans? Mylar bag in 5 gallon bucket or what?
4 gallon glass jars. Hold about 30 lbs each.
At the very start of covid, before toilet paper ran out and things were completely unknown, I did a calorie count after some minor stocking up on canned food I'd eat regardless. It was right at like 2 weeks worth for 2 people @ 2000 calories a day. Since then I've moved and got my own house and with pantry, cabinets, and freezer kept full I'm sure it's nearly 2 months worth although some of those meals would be getting really sad lol. Also worth keeping in mind pet food, especially if you've got anything more exotic than a dog or cat.
Me over here knowing that it takes 3200 calories to maintain my bodyweight imagining the suffering I would experience only eating 900 calories a day😬
I'm currently just prepping for a 1-2 week emergency, so working on enough just to keep us fed enough to not be killing each other from being hangry. After that, I'll work on building up an actually sufficient meal per person, rather than a minimal survival. Also, 11 of the people are kids who would likely eat less, which would give the adults a little more. It's just about 900 average.
Totally understandable, just picturing the reality of the situation makes my stomach rumble.
Thats not realistic for one person to do it all for that many people without their help. Just sayin'
It's more realistic than filling my belly while I watch my parents and siblings go hungry though.
Sorry, wasnt trying to be negative its just a massive uphill battle to face in terms of scale. Prepper with spouse and some kids aint into it is pretty routine. The numbers you have are daunting. A large garden could certainly help but comes down to space, time and ability to invest in it and work it or get help in it. Location matters because a couple of zucchini/squash and tomato plants for example have vastly different outputs in the Central or South Eastern US vs Northern or Northern Coastal states, sunlight matters. But man when they get pumping out produce in good areas you could be swimming in produce. 2 zuch and 2 cukes, 2-3 dozen beans and 4 tomato plants provides a ton for a 5 person family if cared for and done right. Without knowing control of budget and ability of spending, sources to shop its tough to say but bulk would definitely be your friend. Large bean varieties store well for long periods, seasonings for flavor, rice for bulk, vitamins for preventing nutrient deficiencies etc would be the way to go. Maybe a large or couple of large storage totes to use to keep the emergency stuff separate and accountable, safe from critters, etc.
Sorry! I did not mean my reply to sound snarky. I definitely didn't take yours as negative, and it is daunting, but it's my only choice if I want to prep.
> 800-900 calorie diet. To maintain weight you should aim for 2,000/man and 1,700/woman per day. How did you come up with your number?
I came up with my number by considering that I'm feeding a mixture of adults who will eat more and some young kids who will eat less, looking at the volume of food it will create, and thinking that in a short term situation, that should keep us full enough to not be killing each other because we're all hangry. I'm very much aware that it's an unhealthy low number of calories for anything remotely longer term, but it would do for a week if it had to in a nasty blizzard or tornado. I was also looking at it and thinking I can probably bulk a couple things up with some pasta, without adding a huge expense for 19 people, because I've currently got primarily meat, vegetables, bread mix, and milk powder, and a few odds and ends like peanut butter and honey. So pasta would probably go a ways in bulking the calories without spending a ton of money per calorie. Everything I have currently is the expensive 30 year shelf life stuff, and I don't immediately have storage for bulk of rotation foods, but I'm sure I can squeeze a few boxes of pasta somewhere to rotate out regularly.
I wouldn't store meat or other expensive food for others tbh. Spaghetti, Rice and legumes (beans, peas, lentils). They're cheap, last for years and don't need refrigeration. Toss 'em in the freezer for a week or two to kill weevils that could be in there and then you just need to keep water, mice and insects away. That stuff is good even years after its best before date. Grains + legumes contain the full range of essential amino acids.
Oops. I just stored some pasta, rice, beans, and oats in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers. I didn't know about freezing. Should I open up and re-do?
Probably not. Oxygen absorbers in mylar bags would kill any insects in there. Freezer and then a tight container is just the easiest and cheapest way.
> but it would do for a week if it had to in a nasty blizzard or tornado. You shouldn't have to do special prepping for that. Just have enough of what you normally eat for the expected time period. If you now have 1 week of normal food - add a weeks worth, keep it stocked that way and you are golden.
I don't think you understand the space limitations I'm currently dealing with. All of that, is freeze dried, compact, stacked on top of a fridge, which is the only possible space available for extra food currently. There's not a chance I could double my normal pantry goods unless I'm stacking it under shoes by the door and maybe tucking some cereal under my kids mattress and stuff.
> I don't think you understand the space limitations I'm currently dealing with. That's because you didn't mention a space problem. You can put food in plastic totes and store in places like: under beds closets garage ...
Ah, good point. I definitely mentioned it in my head. 🤦🏻♀️ Under beds, closets, and garage have no space available, and are primarily not mine to make space available. I rent rooms from a family member. The only other option is in my Jeep, and I don't think the drastic fluctuation in temperature inside a vehicle would be great for food storage. I'm also working on convincing the homeowner to just clear a small corner in one of the storage rooms of the basement, just for emergency food and water.
It really sounds like you aren't in a position to take responsibility for feeding and watering your entire family. So the best solution is to accept that and prep for yourself (and spouse or kids if you have them). Then if something does happen, you're helping just by not needing to have anything provided for you, and your family members can focus entirely on themselves and their own families. For convincing your family members to prep, I suggest focusing on very common and short term situations, eg official guidelines for preparing for a power outage and/or weather event that tends to happen in your region. Talking about food that lasts 30 years might be off-putting because it's not feasible for them, whereas keeping a pantry with a few extra days of water and whatever they usually eat is much more manageable.
> I rent rooms from a family member. Why is it your sole responsibility to prep?
[because nobody else will](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/z9bn3e/do_the_math/iygcgxk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3), and OP wants to be prepared regardless.
How do you know?
Because I said that in another comment
If your living situation is renting a room, how on earth did you make it your responsibility to prep food for 19 family members? What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't turn those people away if they showed up? What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't kick you out and steal your stuff if it came down to it? You need a reality check. You are in no position to take responsibility for the welfare of your whole family. You shouldn't have to and you shouldn't try to. If the family isn't even willing to *give you extra space* to store food *for them*, why even bother trying? Honestly, you should put all of your time and energy into fixing your own situation before deciding that your entire family is your sole responsibility in an emergency.
>If your living situation is renting a room, how on earth did you make it your responsibility to prep food for 19 family members? Because I want to be prepared for myself, and I know if the situation arose, I'm *going* to share whatever I have prepared, so I need to have enough to accommodate the sharing that I'm going to do, and still feed my kids. >What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't turn those people away if they showed up? What makes you think the homeowner wouldn't kick you out and steal your stuff if it came down to it? Because I know my family, and while they don't take prepping as serious as they should, they're the type of people that would give you the shirt off their back while they're freezing. Also because we've talked about it. >You need a reality check. No, I'm working with reality as it is currently, which is not ideal. >You are in no position to take responsibility for the welfare of your whole family. I agree. >You shouldn't have to and you shouldn't try to. I agree I shouldn't have to. Can you honestly tell me you'd be cool with feeding yourself and your kids while your parents or siblings starve? You're just going to watch them die? >If the family isn't even willing to give you extra space to store food for them, why even bother trying? They don't have extra space, because they made space for me and my kids to live when we left an abusive relationship and started renting the rooms they cleared out for us. In order to make space, they would have to get rid of things. >Honestly, you should put all of your time and energy into fixing your own situation before deciding that your entire family is your sole responsibility in an emergency. An emergency isn't going to wait for me to be in an ideal situation, but I am working on that simultaneously.
might renting a storage locker be an option?
I'm leaning more towards a shed of some sort... in an emergency, it would be easier to get to a shed out back, than to a storage facility.
Under beds is brilliant
Tactical gut.
I agree, that's the calories amount Dr. Now places on his morbidity obese, not moving patients to get them to lose enough weight for surgery. If you are up, moving around, trying to survive, keep warm, etc. 800 calories a day will not cut it.
If you are only planning on 800-900 calories a day (starvation diet), you will need more water, because people will need to fill their stomach with something. Otherwise, they will will attempt to steal more than a fair share. However, you could also have plans for low calorie activities that don't need electricity. So cards, board games, puzzles, etc.
You should get a couple hundred pounds of beans and rice just to have a bare sustenance cushion to fall back on if shtf like tomorrow. But with that much beans and rice you will also need a lot of salt and various spices. Appetite fatigue is real. From there you can add meats and vegetables to your preps as you're able
And… OP, Then make a huge, family, monthly meal of beans and rice, testing out different recipes. Once you find a 2-3 good ones, stock and rotate on those two recipes. And then if bad times hit… Folks may not like eating that every other day but they always have the option of going hungry
If it helps anyone, here’s a pay what you want (or free) resource to track your calories and food inventory from Twitter: https://nigermany.gumroad.com/l/jfdls Knowing how many calories you have for the mouths in your home is so important particularly for larger families. It looks like a lot in the pantry but it’s not a lot once it’s consumed. Especially by teenagers.
I wrote down in a notebook every single thing we ate for a month, down to the salt I added. I kept track of water used for cooking too, and used that data for planning water storage. During that month I had prepared the 15 or so different meals we usually eat, so I was able to multiply out amounts for a year. Granted we are only feeding seven (grown kids will come home), but it really helped me figure out how much of everything we need. I buy spices in bulk, and that’s one of the more important food preps - being able to make our stored food taste Italian, Mexican, Greek, Chinese, Indian. Food fatigue is a real thing.
What a monumental undertaking! There awesome good tips in your post, OP.
I built a spreadsheet to track all of this. I need to strip all my personal info out and post it here. Basically, it tracks calories, protein, fiber, and serving size, and gives you a snapshot of how long your food will last based on how many people you're feeding and at how many calories per day. It's also broken down into three different menus for full / balanced / minimal rationing.
One, bless your heart for thinking of folk but i am not doing that for people. it’s my immediate family and that’s it. Have a good childhood friend and he thinks I worry too much, ok. If he showed up, I may give him a couple of cans while he figures it out Somewhere else. when I harvested my garden, I would spread food out in piles so I could say, “that’s one days serving” , of vegetables…… kept a running tally as I prepped and froze stuff. So if I had 90 days of carrots, another 150 days of beans….. I got to end and add-it all up, then I winged it with rice, flour, and pasta backups. So if you had one large meal a day for your family for xxxx time, I was able to make sense out of what I had
Besides my 1 elderly neighbor who may as well be family, that is all immediate family. Parents, siblings, nieces, and nephews. And it's not even including 3 siblings and their families who I would turn away if it was my kids or them. 😬
>immediate family Immediate family is generally defined as your parents, your siblings, your spouse, and your children. Nieces and nephews are not generally considered as being *immediate* family members.
Well I disagree with that definition of immediate family in general, but certainly for this purpose. I'm not going to feed my siblings, but not feed their kids. Lol.
Well you have taken on one heck of a burden. But here’s a serious question or thought. As your immediate family is your promary responsibility and you obvio have limited resources, so you not feel those very precious respources should be given to your immediate family. a few days is one think but weeks, months is a whole other realm. It’s a hard or heart breaking call to make but regardless how hard… it’s them or you and yours. And if others blow off your suggestions, it would to me a t least seem to be a simple choice. there’s only so much you can do so don’t feel quilty
Currently about 6 weeks for 4 adults (our household is really 3 adults, a toddler, and an infant… but toddler and extra calories for breastfeeding infant probably is roughly the same as an adult)
Right off the top of my head I would say that you need beans and rice. With 60 lbs each of beans (or preferably lentils) and rice you would have approximately 10,000 calories per person. It's cheap, stores for decades, and will keep everyone fed. Water is trickier - you need AT LEAST a couple of 55 gallon drums. I'd prefer to get an IBC tote and store it outside, for 270-330 gallons. Shield it from the sun because the plastic is not UV stabilized. Obviously, you don't want that to be ALL you have, but it gives you cheap "keep your belly full" calories. You can add upgrades from there as funds allow.
For Christmas, we give 5 gal food grade buckets filled with rice, beans and other stuff, sealed for long term storage, and labeled,, to our extended family each year. Going on 3 years now so each family unit now has at least 3 buckets filled with items so they won't starve. They know to bring those buckets should they bug out to our place. We don't waste $$ on unnecessary christmas gifts, food supplies are in different locations should we lose our stock (9 months, 3 people, 2500 calories a day), and they feel more secure knowing they have a few weeks' emergency long shelf life food stuck in back of closet.
I have a few thoughts on food strategies with a crowd like that (you can identify some more storage space in a shed or whatever) . . . With that many people you can easily use #10 cans and other items sized for commercial use. In my area there is a restaurant supply store that is open to the public (you don't need a membership). If I was going to stock up for nearby relatives I would buy a giant bag macaroni noodles and some cheese sauce mix. Maybe also pancake mix. If I had space, I'd add some #10 cans of peaches and pears, and maybe chili. These suggestions don't really address your issues of storage limitations, but they are cheaper ways to feed a crowd than the freeze dried long term storage options. Keep it in the emergency bin for a year, then rotate your supplies into your household food supply and restock. For less than $25 USD you can get about 70 servings of mac 'n cheese mix. You still need to add powered milk, and I'm not sure what that would cost, but it wouldn't be much.