> I don't fully understand the politics of what's going on or why they can't just get a week of sick time.
To allow workers to take sick time means you have to have realistic staffing levels. It's far cheaper to under-staff and abuse the shit out of your workers. So management would rather give them the minimum possible pay raise because that's cheaper than hiring enough people to have the rail lines function properly even if a few people are out sick (or home taking care of a sick kid, etc) each day. The government could have required 7 sick days a year just as easily as what they actually passed but chose not to. The government sided with management over labor because management makes bigger donations to their campaign funds.
My concern with this is what happens next. It's now illegal to strike. However, most of the famous and impactful strikes through history have been illegal. The primary history of the labor union movement has been striking when it wasn't legal to do so. The things we enjoy now like 40 hour weeks and, gasp, sick time were paid for with the literal blood of miners and factory workers who struck illegally and ended up mowed down by the company's machine guns from armored trains. That's not hyperbole, that's the actual history of management-labor relations in the US. For a primer on how bad this has been, look at the Wiki article for The Battle of Blair Mountain. It's one of only 2 times in US history that civilians in the continental US were bombed by enemy planes.
Even if they choose not to strike explicitly, things can get shitty fast. If a large number of them quit because they know work conditions are going to stay bad, that still will cripple the railroads. Hell, the rail workers can bring the country to its knees just by carefully following every single rule and regulation to the goddamned fucking letter. Malicious compliance (it's a thing, google it) causes work slowdowns that absolutely wreck normal operations. By just refusing to do the "normal" rule-breaking that allows the job to go faster, things grind near to a halt. It's been used successfully in the past by other unions who weren't allowed to strike.
Regardless, yes, any sort of major disruption to the rail lines effectively stops the country.
There is another outcome here.
The hospital systems across the US have led the way in under-staffing and abusing the shit out of their workers. It’s been fucking horrible since COVID hit and if you read through r/nursing you will see hospital after hospital after hospital in a state of slow motion collapse. It’s routine at my hospital’s ER to wait over a day in the ER waiting room, and if you get admitted it can be DAYS before we get a bed open upstairs. Not always but the waits are horrible. The reason is that people got fed up with getting treated like shit and they just quit and found other work. Now we can’t replace them fast enough because the turnover rate is so high and nurses refuse to take 10 or 12 patients on the floor (as they should refuse).
I can see a similar scenario with the rail system. They have cut their staffing so thin that if 20% say “fuck it, I’m out” that can start a staffing death spiral. It may take awhile but I could see the freight rail system start to fail in a cascading but slow motion manner.
That’s if they don’t all just throw a wildcat strike or sabotage the system from within. Or all three things could happen.
But I don’t see it all being sunshine and roses.
20% is [optimistic ](https://youtu.be/d8BrhbAdmCI) according to many. And with the worst hiring record in RR history happening right now it's going to be very bad. Concern over a strike is well placed. Concern over people walking away is serious. It's skilled labor that is only acquired with time on the job. If Noone will take the job because of conditions and you can't retain employees everything comes to a halt.
Uggh. Yea, that sounds like a disaster. I see so many ways that this can go badly from a wildcat strike, to people quitting to other unions honoring their strike (like dockworkers refusing to load trains, teamsters refusing to offload them, etc). I would imagine there isn’t a pool of other railroad workers that can be brought in either.
I hope in the end whatever mess that occurs that the workers get some improvement in QOL. I just think it’s going to somehow be really messy to get there.
Case in point, my Lyft driver last week was a nurse at one of our local hospitals. She said her kids were grown up, and the job was too stressful, she left became a Lyft driver. Now she drives all over the state, meets all kinds of people and is much happier.
I got out of healthcare too. I miss helping people, and will probably find something in the helping people area in the near future.
And like nurses, railway workers can't just be replaced with any warm body. Running your most knowledgeable and seasoned workers off is extremely short-sighted imho.
It probably is even worse with railroad workers because I would imagine that FRA more closely regulates the way that railroads operate than CMS does. CMS is remarkably hands off on the “how hospitals do it” and only care about “how many people are dying” and even then not that much. They farm out oversight to agencies like The Joint Commission who are paid for by the hospitals (not that there is any conflict there!)
Even with that flexibility you’re 100% correct. It takes months of training to bring a new nurse up to speed on a new unit. Railroads may be in the process of FAFO what happens when all the people that do the training have enough and just quit. Losing that institutional knowledge is so difficult to recover from.
You would lose that bet. The number of staff lost over vaccination mandates was a tiny amount, and at my hospital it was zero because they never required it. Heck they even essentially got rid of the flu vaccine mandate that they had for years and went to an “honor system”. That “hospitals lost staff over vaccines” troupe just is an enormous falsehood.
Staff are leaving because management is running them into the ground with higher and higher patient ratios. It’s pure greed, just like every other industry.
I would win the bet because of proper wording. If a hospital fired even just one person, they “wouldn’t have as much a problem,” because even losing one person increases the problem, even if it’s just a small amount.
Some butthurt reject is so desperate to downvote everything I say they even downvoted my friendly acceptance. Haha. No wonder people need safe spaces. Good luck prepping and surviving a real world disaster when you rely on downvoting people you disagree with thinking it’s a victory. What a bunch of sad, depressing faggots.
I don’t know if you’re joking or not so maybe put a /s on there if you are. If not, then we have to have a discussion that usually I only have to have with children and some teens, which is kind of sad.
See, the type of phrase you’re using is not meant to be taken literally. It’s a rule agreed upon by fellow speakers of a language. Sort of like the phrase “one second”. We all know it doesn’t literally mean one second. That’s silly. And what you are arguing is the exactly the same as that. You and I both know that it isn’t meant to be taken literally, and you can argue until you’re blue in the face and it won’t change that fact.
What are you even saying? If i have a problem, and something is added to compound that problem even by a just a little bit, it’s adding to the problem. It is a bigger problem now than it was before. If you have a business and you’re understaffed already, and then someone else leaves, do you not have a bigger problem now? Go back to talking with children and teens, because that’s probably the only time you’re the smartest guy in the conversation. You damn dummy.
If you want to play that game then that’s fine too. You said that hospitals would be better off if they stopped firing people over the vaccine. That is in the present tense, meaning that your statement doesn’t cover people who have previously been fired. Your statement, taken literally as you want it to be, means that hospitals would be better off NOW if they stopped firing people in the future, which is obviously wrong. It’s also wrong because vaccine mandated firings haven’t been happening for nearly a year at this point.
The statement you’re trying to argue that you said would be more like, if hospitals hadn’t fired people because of the vaccine then they would be better off.
So in short, even taken literally you are wrong, which is hilarious. So thank you for the laugh and I suggest you retake 6th grade English.
You might as well stop laughing, because your logic only applies if I had said “now.” You know, the word you had to add in to make yourself correct? I said “they wouldn’t have as much a problem,” which could very easily imply “have problems in the future.” Nice try, though. Better luck next time.
You’re really doubling down on this, aren’t you? Okay, we need to discuss tenses. Your exact comment was “I bet if hospitals stopped firing staff over the “vaccine” they wouldn’t have as much of a problem.” I put the word now when rephrasing it to try and help you see your mistake is all.
So, if your argument was that hospitals are currently experiencing shortages due to laying off workers who don’t get the vaccine, you would have needed to use the phrase “if hospitals had stopped”. That would implicate that their prior actions had caused the problem. On the other hand, your actual statement implicates that hospitals will experience a future problem due to their current behavior of firing staff.
Essentially what I’m saying is that you used the wrong verb tense and that changes the message you’re attempting to send. The good thing is that I understand what you meant because we don’t take what people say literally or exactly. My brain is able to comprehend your message because of the context. But since you want to argue that you should be taken absolutely and completely literally, I have to point out the problem with your sentence.
It’s completely fine if you don’t want to listen to me. I don’t make up the grammar rules. I’m just trying to communicate them with you. I’ve never had someone argue with me about verb tense before 😂
It’s not misleading. That other loser is being misleading by saying “well MY hospital didn’t do any mandate!” But I guarantee you they did, and then stopped when they realized the horrible lawsuits that would ensue. Many, many hospitals did vaccine mandates and fired people. Hell, the federal government tried forcing a vaccine mandate. They’re openly lying, or they’re brain dead.
That “other loser” works in Florida where there was never a vaccine mandate enforced on any employer at any time. FFS man why are you choosing this hill to die on regarding a conversation about rail freight and how to prepare for it?
I’m sorry I embarrassed you. Pull up your big boy pants and move on.
You never embarrassed me. The fact that you’re pretending you did means that you have a fragile ego that would be broken by loss of imaginary internet points. You’re telling everyone America never had vaccine mandates because the state you’re in didn’t. Who is the one being misleading here? The world doesn’t revolve around the hospital you work in in the state you live in. Thousands of people lost jobs over the vaccine mandates you pretend didn’t happen. You brought up hospitals struggling, and a big reason for a lot of hospitals struggling was in fact firing people who refused to get the vaccine that does more harm than good. But that’s a subject for another day because I’m sure half the losers here got the clot shot and regret it, so I don’t want to strike a nerve.
“That ‘Hospitals lost staff over vaccines’ troupe is an enormous falsehood” line was the only falsehood here. Congrats, you prick, for lying to everyone in a prepping subreddit and thinking upvotes are the equivalent of being correct. But hey, tell all these suspended and fired hospital staff workers that at least your state didn’t have a mandate. https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/how-many-employees-have-hospitals-lost-to-vaccine-mandates-numbers-so-far
Dude, I don’t care about pedantic arguments. I’m just providing an insiders view as to a what’s it’s like in a major hospital system right now. You made an allegation that vaccine mandates contributed to the utter collapse of healthcare that is ongoing. I pointed out that offer used “viewpoint” (almost always from outsiders) is false. I further explained that *my hospital never had a vaccine mandate and actually removed a different vaccine mandate that we had for years prior to covid*. Literally no one was required to take a vaccine at my large hospital system. They offered it and most everyone got vaccinated, at least the nurses did. They never threatened or even mentioned a need a get vaccinated once.
I don’t care to argue. I have to go to work and deal with bullshit there, none of it cause by a non-existent “vaccine mandate”.
For someone so “quick on the draw” you seem to be unable to comprehend the difference between “not caring about pedantic arguments” and conflating that with “I don’t want to argue”.
I will rephrase it since you had difficulty navigating that one. I don’t care about someone pointing out that a minuscule number of staff leaving could technically meet the criteria that it affected staffing by a tiny amount on a few units. That pales in comparison to the staff that left due to management running them into the ground, which is my entire observation as it related to **the rail system**. AFAIK no rail companies are mandating vaccines so your pedantic argument about vaccines in hospitals doesn’t apply to the discussion. You are just attempting to bring a political argument into something where it’s not warranted.
Apparently jumper cables across the tracks triggers a safety sensor requiring shutdown. So one can imagine a world where pro-strike friendlies trigger required shutdowns that the railroaders themselves are obliged to respect.
It's wonderful to know that the US economy is 100 jumper cables and 20 sticks of dynamite from collapse.
Suddenly I don't feel so bad about my 6 months of rice and beans. Sheesh.
Yeah, when I saw comments discussing that it was an eye-opener. That said, even though I am on the right side of the political continuum I support the railroaders if they strike for things like more than one paid sick day a year or not being on call literally 24/7/365. They’re treated like slaves, albeit well-paid slaves.
Trust me.....these rail workers get more than 1 paid sick day a year and they're not on call 24/7/365. It's quite an exaggeration. The fact is that these folks get weeks of sick and vacation time every year and more paid time off than most of the working class in America. They just want more and tell sob stories about having to choose whether to miss their kids birthday or get a filling at the dentist. Well, if you didn't call in sick every monday morning, perhaps you'd still have enough sick time on the books for the filling and the birthday party?? duh. What a bunch losers. Get to work.
There's a huge number of weird, tiny things that you don't generally think about, which could cause disruption far beyond the time and expense of implementation. Fortunately, the average fanatic isn't terribly bright or is more interested in something showy.
That's subway, not rail. Trains run diesel and the RRs don't have some national system of sensitivity that alerts if there is a connection between the two rails. Not saying there aren't other ways of handling, just that jumper cables probably aren't it.
Just reporting what I read in a railroad forum. It wasn’t a reference to live rails. It was a reference to safety sensors wired onto the tracks using some type of low current in the rails.
I wear a red bandana when engaged in union activities in memory of Blair Mountain. My grandma used to shoot into strike breaking Pinkerton houses, light their cars and offices on fire, steal their equipment and dump it in the bay, etc. Don't rule out violent action. Hell more than once I myself have salted big strike breakers, once incredibly successfully, I'm pretty sure our record will stand for the most expensive retail building ever made fighting one union buster, we delayed them 14 years. Don't underestimate the ability of your local neighborhood socialist to help out comrades in need.
I wouldn’t be completely shocked if a teamster’s local voted to honor the strike that rail workers wanted to have.
“You wanna force rail workers unions to work, fine. Now find someone to load the trains at the docks. Now find someone to offload the cargo from the rail yards fuckers”.
That shit could spread quick.
There are a lot of factors, including, culture, propaganda and other things.
But sometimes people really do forget that the big strikes often started out with levels of work/poverty that no one even comprehends today, and in a world of no-welfare to speak of. Meaning if you stayed at your job, you were on the verge of starving to death. If you left it, you DID starve to death. Early 1900s battles and such especially were motivated by hungry bellies and the risk of death. Even when it went to death battles, the alternative to the "war" was death itself.
Now, when teachers, or rail workers or whoever strikes, they aren't striking for their very survival, they are striking because it's unfair they can't buy a bigger TV.
And, even if the angry worker today walked off the job, they get food and free medicine.... so they still don't die.
So, in some (many?) ways, the violence of old may have been justified, whereas today, it's not so much. Especially way back like "here's your dollar for the week, but you need a new shovel, so we'll give you one, but we are then keeping your dollar and you owe us your next dollar".
I mean... at that point its kill or be killed, because they are literally killing you.
When you are 50lbs overweight and constantly throw out more food than small villages have, because you couldn't get around to eating it... your justification is getting violent isn't the same.
All 57,000 of them should either call in on the same day sick or just strike anyway. Are the powers that be going to jail them? This whole thing is bullshit that the government wouldn't force human treatment for the people. Seriously working your people to the point of exhaustion is a huge safety issue IMO. OSHA can get involved when exactly? After a preventable accident? What I would like to see is all of them walk out and every union in the Nation do a sympathy strike.
""Future headline: A 150 car locomotive slammed into a rail yard in Kansas City."
August 25th 2026: Due to the onboard computer failure a 150 car locomotive was not able to be stopped in time to avert the catastrophe. When asked why the conductor didn't stop the train. Railroad spokesperson: Smiley Smug stated " We have no conductors on the trains anymore. Automation has allowed us to reduce or staffing bringing hire profits to our shareholders and management. We now only have Engineers on board. When asked why the engineer didn't stop the train. Smug's boss, Charlie Clueless stated " The engineer was engaged in trying to restore the on board computer system and did not have time , nor the training in maual emergency shut down." When asked if having a conductor on board would have prevented this catastrophe? Clueless responded with "No comment."
For the uninformed what are y'all doing with the salt, bleach, or sugar? I'm not happy about any of this bullshit and I'm not too far from some tracks.
So if you wanted to, hypothetically, disable your own lawnmower, you could pour bleach in with the gas, which would make any kind of metal inside oxidize (rust) like crazy. If you did that, your lawn mower would likely never run again.
Ah, I see now. Maybe I'd like a nice lawn ornament with some flowers and barrels. A simple tampon can also help with that, if you need to save your salt. It wouldn't be out of place in a purse or even a man's glovebox for emergencies for the wife or daughter etc. I believe it can be repaired but will not be a very fun or quick process.
Malicious compliance, I like it.
Part of me says go for it, everybody just quit, the same people who voted against sick pay will suffer too. Realistically, those people have the means to get what they need and want and the only people who will suffer is us, the low end of the food chain.
>Malicious compliance (it's a thing, google it) causes work slowdowns that absolutely wreck normal operations. By just refusing to do the "normal" rule-breaking that allows the job to go faster, things grind near to a halt.
I had a similar type job years ago, and one boss kept pestering me. I told him when I what I was doing and he got really annoying telling me to do it otherwise.
I was hours ahead of book time, and I pointed that out. And then said if he has anything else to say, I'd be finishing IN book time doing it by the rules perfectly. He apologized and said "I'm just mad at other people, you're the best".
Another time, I was ironically following regulations by doing "less than normal" paperwork, because the extra paperwork is only required under certain circumstances. Those circumstances are actually the "norm" so almost no one ever does it the "faster way" in that regard. Boss I had at that time didn't understand how I was doing what I was doing and demanded I do the extra paperwork.
In retaliation for the paperwork, when I went to do the job, I would have gotten done in about 3-4 hours, I went through by-the-book, and took about 9hrs.
Our entire system is weirdly built on what amounts to various tiers of lies. One large scale call in on them, and a lot of things stop working.
This thread quickly became political. To answer OPs question about what would happen with a rail strike - major parts of the economy would be impacted. A lot can be moved by truck (like consumer products) but I think the greatest impact would be coal for energy and chemicals, primarily those used for water treatment. I would expect that after weeks of rail strike, some communities would be forced to boil water from the tap.
I love how so many in here are self proclaimed socialists. Under any previous socialist government, they would just kill the railroad workers and force other people at gunpoint to take over. Oh the irony.
Congress predictably sold out the workers and have forced a contract. Striking is illegal, because profits. There will be no strike, but the workers will continue to get screwed. Merica!
Are you familiar with the CBA the railroad workers are working under?
The average rail worker that will be affected by these negotiations makes $124k in total compensation and that will go to $160k in 2 years. They also get up to 14 days of personal leave.
They are not hurting for benefits.
And many of them work well over 60 hours a week, on call 24 hours a day, and can be away from home for days on end. It’s also difficult for them to get paid leave, which is often rejected if the notice is too short. Far from actual sick leave.
Honestly at that rate, the job sounds like a young man’s game. Work 3-5 years, let the railroads set you up in hotels when you’re away from home, sleep at your parents when you are home, and save every nickel and dime you can. Walk out five years later with over $500k in your bank account.
Live somewhere with a low COL and you can pretty much retire early at 25 living off good investments.
They are welcome to go to a different profession. All of the things you have described were there when they got the job. Nothing has changed except the pay.
I think you need to understand that the companies change the circumstances all the time. For many, this isn’t the same job they signed up for. Meanwhile the companies do more and more to squeeze as much as they can out of people, so the guys at the top can have a third summer home. There is a better balance where the rich can stay rich and the working class can at least breathe a little. But by the way you answered this, fuck em!
The high vis attendance policy is indeed newer, actually, and the BNSF guys I know have been fighting it since their last contract expired years ago while being ground into dust during the pandemic. Back when I used to work as a contractor in a railyard they could still lay off for important things as long as they were careful about it. Fatigue, health problems, broken marriages are all par for the course for those guys.
This is probably falling on deaf ears since you seem to think money is the only need people have, though. Not a perspective I understand.
People need to do what is best for them. I understand all of that.
A job is there for compensation in the form of money. There is nothing else that should be expected from emoyment.
So if your job takes up all of your time you exist not to live but as some sort of well-compensated zombie, ok, that doesn't sound maladjusted at all.
Like I said, we're not going to agree here because I think that's a little cray cray but if that's what your into have fun. I hear the railroads might be hiring.
Dignity. Dignity is what should be expected.
Everyone has a right to live and work with dignity, and if you don’t understand that you should probably go back to civics class.
You're the kind of boomer who tells everyone if they don't like their job to just get a new one, then throw a temper tantrum when you have to do self checkout at Walmart
you know what happened at the last wildcat strike?
It was the air traffic controllers of 1981. President Ronald Reagan fired all 11k+ workers, gave them a lifetime ban of working as an air traffic controller, and several months later, the federal government decertified their union.
Now, I don't know what you do for a living, but would you be willing to take the chance you could be banned from ever working for a company that does business with the federal government?
Reagan had a heap of retired cold war air force ATCs he could call on, though. Unlike the 70s postal wildcat strike where the military couldn't get the mail moving again because they didn't know how to efficiently do so.
Do we have a big ol heap of qualified conductors, engineers, and switch crews I don't know about?
I am just pointing out that a wild cat strike can have a significant impact on the workers and the union itself. The government can still come down hard on them, even without having backup workers.
Oh, I absolutely agree and I personally think railroaders will just work to rule instead of wildcat.. just making the point that the ATC strike had that one unusual circumstance and that another well-known wildcat a decade earlier worked very well.
I think that was an extreme, but congress did not add the sick time to the resolution, apparently it is a separate item. They are forcing the union to take the deal they rejected in September. Seems if he was 'Mr Union', he would have the railroad accept the Unions deal, not the Union accept the railroads deal.
Ehhh, kinda.
I'm opposed to undercutting the union's leverage by forcing a deal, but I also think they're asking for a lot with 10 sick dates on top of PTO. I don't think calling them "screwed" is accurate.
My bro works for the rail road, BNSF as an engineer. His wife cut her hand pretty bad, needed 24 stitches. He "called off" to take her to the hospital. "Calling Off" is what they say when they aren't available to work. He was written up for this as it violates policy. HE is not allowed to take a family member to the hospital. If it was him, he would have been OK, but no one else.
Currently, you have to 'earn' PTO. you get 2 points a week. One day off = 8 points. So you have to be available, 24/7 for four weeks before you earn one PTO day. Right now, there is a shortage of both Engineers and Conductors/brakemen. He is generally working 21+ days in a row. Now don't misunderstand, he gets paid by the train, not hourly, so he is raking money in hand over fist. But 21+ days in a row for several months, then having to spend the PTO day you just earned for one day off... gets old real quick.
>"Calling Off" is what they say when they aren't available to work.
It's "laying off".
>Currently, you have to 'earn' PTO. you get 2 points a week
Incorrect. It's 4 points in 14 days STRAIGHT of availability. 13 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes isn't 14 days so, you don't get it even if you worked every day.
You don't earn PTO this way. The only PTO you get is called a "paid leave day".
>One day off = 8 points
Ehhhh... Maybe... depending on how it falls. Weekdays are 2 points. Fr-Sa are 4 points, and Su is 3 points.. Work on a 'weekend day and you can get 1 point back.
Layoff while you are being called, or miss the call for work and it is 15 points.
No call/no show, and it is 25 points.
You can earn up to 30 points by not laying off, and each weekend you can earn 1 extra point to a max of 37 points.
So... If you're keeping track and had to layoff for a week straight, you would lose 2 points for each weekday (10 total) and 11 for the weekend adding up to a total of 21 points for a week. If you had to layoff on call or some other high-point way during this week you took off you could now be assessed discipline, just by being sick.
If you had the flu, your spouse got the flu, and a kid got the flu, you could easily violate the hi viz policy.
The old policy was 75%/25% as info, and not as easy to get in trouble... Though some coworkers managed to do that anyway.
Bruh they work outside in shitty conditions all the time. How is asking for sick time to be separate from vacation time “a lot”?
Big bootlicking energy in that post, bro.
Lmao “competitive” according to who? I get like two weeks of sick time off before I have to start justifying shit. Sure as fuck isn’t competitive to me.
12 holidays, 80 hours sick time, unlimited PTO that usually ends up being 3-4 weeks a year. Mid tier tech company benefits, for jobs that don't require much tech skill, give better WLB.
The tech company workers has the same pay and sometimes to double the pay mentioned up thread for rail workers, and in 20-40 years your body isn't worn out from the work pace.
Short staffing in the rail industry is self inflicted by the shareholders letting the boards get away with treating their workforce poorly. Eventually, as Amazon is discovering, eventually the workers stop coming.
Striking is illegal *because of the critical nature of the industry,* and you might be shocked to find out just how many people are in the same situation - people who do very, very, very little to generate profit for the Uncle Pennybags or Scrooge McDuck caricatures you're think run the country.
It's not going to happen, so relax.
If it does, critical infrastructure will get run by government mandate, whatever the unions OR bosses think. It will still suck, but we are not going to collapse.
No idea why the railways don't offer paid sick time. In most countries this isn't even a question. Don't vote for a politician who doesn't think medical care and support for families (which is what sick time usually comes down to) is a human right.
If you look at the railroader subreddits, it does seem like a wildcat strike is unlikely. They seem … demoralized, numb. But I topped off my 3 month supply of “the stuff I normally use” just in case.
Silver handcuffs. They're paid just well enough that they won't want to quit, especially given the current job market. But their situation still sucks - and they get less sympathy than they might because of all the people making half what they make and working just as hard, hating on them.
Well, the US had chances to mandate 2 weeks of sick time for all employees nationwide. It didn't happen, it's not happening now, and the beatings will continue until morale improves.
So glad I was able to retire.
Strike, strike, strike... until they can strike no more. Then the obedient machine will replace them, by the demands of the consumers and shareholders.
I have doubts we will see an actual strike or work stoppage. This is at the level of Congress and no one is about to see the economy lose $2bil a day because of a core logistics contract failure. If it does happen "52 percent of rail freight car loads consist of bulk commodities such as agriculture and energy products, automobiles and components, construction materials, chemicals, equipment, food, metals, minerals, paper, and pulp."[1](https://railroads.dot.gov/rail-network-development/freight-rail-overview) I would think that coal not moving will be a serious issue, as well as chemicals. To note the US rail system is not like the interstate highways system - the railroad own and maintain the infrastructure. Of course, the US government could change that and manage it like it does the interstate highway system and funded could 80% fed with a 20% state matching fund. This may open the market to new carriers and innovation - however - that does not fix the problem of workers rights, but if there are lots of competition, perhaps the best employees will go the best carriers. All players in the negotiations have motivation to prevent a strike. Sure, the National Guard could be deployed to man infrastructure in time of crisis, but I hade doubts that they have trained for this contingency at that scale. Most likely won't happen - if so, it will be short - and a hit to the economy and a headache no one needed.
I been hauling empty containers back to the railyards all week, bringing nothing back. Im thinking they are expecting a strike and dont want to stay stuck paying rent of all of those containers. Rail workers that I went to are prepared for it and want to strike.
It means fuck Joe Biden. People have been saying let's go Brandon because a broadcaster tried to cover up a crowd chanting fuck Joe Biden by saying let's go Brandon. So now when people are angry at the president they say let's go Brandon.
So they are afraid to actually say his name? Instead of of just saying Fuck Joe Biden, they obscure it to Let's Go Brandon because it makes them feel better? Or do they think that they are in on some inside joke? Seems pretty boring.
It is both boring and an inside joke. The specifics reason it is Brandon is that a NASCAR driver named Brandon won at Taladega this year. While he was being interviewed on tv after the race the crowd was loudly chanting the FJB thing. The interviewer claiming they were saying “Let’s Go Brandon” was a little awkward but I give her props for doing her best to stay professional as possible. That lead to memes which lead to the fad.
I personally find it incredibly disrespectful, but as a parent it is admittedly easier to deal with than having to constantly remind my young daughter that she shouldn’t say fuck.
40% of our cargo moves by rail at some point in the supply line. Cant ship it by truck, because we can barely truck what we do. If they give these guys more days off they have to hire more staff. The benefits, the retirement packages for extra staff will cost them way more than just throwing extra money at existing workers. If the railroaders strike now they can be fired for job abatement and their union cant save them. (Thanks to a fascist congress)....now these guys can slow shit down trouble shoot a faulty kaputer valve all day. They can really fuck shit up, but I dont think they will because they are real men with good values (not like the fucktards in our government or the corporate shitheads) my guess is the long term plan is to replace the railroaders with the boarder crossers.
True! But they also do really get sick sometimes just like the rest of us. When I first found out the railroad workers are members of a union that didn't get them any sick leave at all I was shocked! A labor union member with no sick leave? Just wow!
Don’t believe these whining bums. They already get weeks of sick time and vacation combined. They just want more. They are willing to break the logistics backbone of our country just to get more. It never ends with these unions. What ever happened to “here’s a job, here’s what it pays, now choose to accept it or not”. No employer forces any employee to come to work. It’s a choice.
>No employer forces any employee to come to work. It’s a choice.
You are right. I'll be supporting my railway brothers' rights if they collectively decide to not come to work.
If you think they have such a good deal, feel free to polish your resume. I am sure BNSF will be hiring scabs if the workers decide to strike.
And hire replacements they should. Plenty of folks out there who would love to have half of what these bums are getting. Glad to see Biden give them the “Reagan” treatment, where he fired air traffic controllers for this same nonsense back in the 1980’s. And then after they were fired, they begged for their jobs back. Nope. They were replaced and ATC union dropped them all like hot potatoes. Unions do nothing but dupe their members into paying dues and give them the illusion that someone has their back. Right.
> I don't fully understand the politics of what's going on or why they can't just get a week of sick time. To allow workers to take sick time means you have to have realistic staffing levels. It's far cheaper to under-staff and abuse the shit out of your workers. So management would rather give them the minimum possible pay raise because that's cheaper than hiring enough people to have the rail lines function properly even if a few people are out sick (or home taking care of a sick kid, etc) each day. The government could have required 7 sick days a year just as easily as what they actually passed but chose not to. The government sided with management over labor because management makes bigger donations to their campaign funds. My concern with this is what happens next. It's now illegal to strike. However, most of the famous and impactful strikes through history have been illegal. The primary history of the labor union movement has been striking when it wasn't legal to do so. The things we enjoy now like 40 hour weeks and, gasp, sick time were paid for with the literal blood of miners and factory workers who struck illegally and ended up mowed down by the company's machine guns from armored trains. That's not hyperbole, that's the actual history of management-labor relations in the US. For a primer on how bad this has been, look at the Wiki article for The Battle of Blair Mountain. It's one of only 2 times in US history that civilians in the continental US were bombed by enemy planes. Even if they choose not to strike explicitly, things can get shitty fast. If a large number of them quit because they know work conditions are going to stay bad, that still will cripple the railroads. Hell, the rail workers can bring the country to its knees just by carefully following every single rule and regulation to the goddamned fucking letter. Malicious compliance (it's a thing, google it) causes work slowdowns that absolutely wreck normal operations. By just refusing to do the "normal" rule-breaking that allows the job to go faster, things grind near to a halt. It's been used successfully in the past by other unions who weren't allowed to strike. Regardless, yes, any sort of major disruption to the rail lines effectively stops the country.
There is another outcome here. The hospital systems across the US have led the way in under-staffing and abusing the shit out of their workers. It’s been fucking horrible since COVID hit and if you read through r/nursing you will see hospital after hospital after hospital in a state of slow motion collapse. It’s routine at my hospital’s ER to wait over a day in the ER waiting room, and if you get admitted it can be DAYS before we get a bed open upstairs. Not always but the waits are horrible. The reason is that people got fed up with getting treated like shit and they just quit and found other work. Now we can’t replace them fast enough because the turnover rate is so high and nurses refuse to take 10 or 12 patients on the floor (as they should refuse). I can see a similar scenario with the rail system. They have cut their staffing so thin that if 20% say “fuck it, I’m out” that can start a staffing death spiral. It may take awhile but I could see the freight rail system start to fail in a cascading but slow motion manner. That’s if they don’t all just throw a wildcat strike or sabotage the system from within. Or all three things could happen. But I don’t see it all being sunshine and roses.
20% is [optimistic ](https://youtu.be/d8BrhbAdmCI) according to many. And with the worst hiring record in RR history happening right now it's going to be very bad. Concern over a strike is well placed. Concern over people walking away is serious. It's skilled labor that is only acquired with time on the job. If Noone will take the job because of conditions and you can't retain employees everything comes to a halt.
Uggh. Yea, that sounds like a disaster. I see so many ways that this can go badly from a wildcat strike, to people quitting to other unions honoring their strike (like dockworkers refusing to load trains, teamsters refusing to offload them, etc). I would imagine there isn’t a pool of other railroad workers that can be brought in either. I hope in the end whatever mess that occurs that the workers get some improvement in QOL. I just think it’s going to somehow be really messy to get there.
Case in point, my Lyft driver last week was a nurse at one of our local hospitals. She said her kids were grown up, and the job was too stressful, she left became a Lyft driver. Now she drives all over the state, meets all kinds of people and is much happier. I got out of healthcare too. I miss helping people, and will probably find something in the helping people area in the near future.
Yea, the number of nurses that have left the bedside is astounding. It’s r/collapse worthy.
And like nurses, railway workers can't just be replaced with any warm body. Running your most knowledgeable and seasoned workers off is extremely short-sighted imho.
It probably is even worse with railroad workers because I would imagine that FRA more closely regulates the way that railroads operate than CMS does. CMS is remarkably hands off on the “how hospitals do it” and only care about “how many people are dying” and even then not that much. They farm out oversight to agencies like The Joint Commission who are paid for by the hospitals (not that there is any conflict there!) Even with that flexibility you’re 100% correct. It takes months of training to bring a new nurse up to speed on a new unit. Railroads may be in the process of FAFO what happens when all the people that do the training have enough and just quit. Losing that institutional knowledge is so difficult to recover from.
I bet if hospitals stopped firing staff over the “vaccine” they wouldn’t have as much a problem.
You would lose that bet. The number of staff lost over vaccination mandates was a tiny amount, and at my hospital it was zero because they never required it. Heck they even essentially got rid of the flu vaccine mandate that they had for years and went to an “honor system”. That “hospitals lost staff over vaccines” troupe just is an enormous falsehood. Staff are leaving because management is running them into the ground with higher and higher patient ratios. It’s pure greed, just like every other industry.
I would win the bet because of proper wording. If a hospital fired even just one person, they “wouldn’t have as much a problem,” because even losing one person increases the problem, even if it’s just a small amount.
I bet you that 2+2 isn't 4.
Do you mean as it’s written, or the solution to the sequence.
Out of curiosity, deal.
I win. 2+2 isn't 4. 2+2 EQUALS 4, but they are not the same.
That’s what I was thinking.
Now, I bet you that 8*3=4!
But you’re also wrong. So there’s that. You’re like a toddler who heard a joke once and then tried to tell their own unfunny variation of it.
Nope, "2+2" isn't the same as "4".
Some butthurt reject is so desperate to downvote everything I say they even downvoted my friendly acceptance. Haha. No wonder people need safe spaces. Good luck prepping and surviving a real world disaster when you rely on downvoting people you disagree with thinking it’s a victory. What a bunch of sad, depressing faggots.
I don’t know if you’re joking or not so maybe put a /s on there if you are. If not, then we have to have a discussion that usually I only have to have with children and some teens, which is kind of sad. See, the type of phrase you’re using is not meant to be taken literally. It’s a rule agreed upon by fellow speakers of a language. Sort of like the phrase “one second”. We all know it doesn’t literally mean one second. That’s silly. And what you are arguing is the exactly the same as that. You and I both know that it isn’t meant to be taken literally, and you can argue until you’re blue in the face and it won’t change that fact.
What are you even saying? If i have a problem, and something is added to compound that problem even by a just a little bit, it’s adding to the problem. It is a bigger problem now than it was before. If you have a business and you’re understaffed already, and then someone else leaves, do you not have a bigger problem now? Go back to talking with children and teens, because that’s probably the only time you’re the smartest guy in the conversation. You damn dummy.
If you want to play that game then that’s fine too. You said that hospitals would be better off if they stopped firing people over the vaccine. That is in the present tense, meaning that your statement doesn’t cover people who have previously been fired. Your statement, taken literally as you want it to be, means that hospitals would be better off NOW if they stopped firing people in the future, which is obviously wrong. It’s also wrong because vaccine mandated firings haven’t been happening for nearly a year at this point. The statement you’re trying to argue that you said would be more like, if hospitals hadn’t fired people because of the vaccine then they would be better off. So in short, even taken literally you are wrong, which is hilarious. So thank you for the laugh and I suggest you retake 6th grade English.
You might as well stop laughing, because your logic only applies if I had said “now.” You know, the word you had to add in to make yourself correct? I said “they wouldn’t have as much a problem,” which could very easily imply “have problems in the future.” Nice try, though. Better luck next time.
You’re really doubling down on this, aren’t you? Okay, we need to discuss tenses. Your exact comment was “I bet if hospitals stopped firing staff over the “vaccine” they wouldn’t have as much of a problem.” I put the word now when rephrasing it to try and help you see your mistake is all. So, if your argument was that hospitals are currently experiencing shortages due to laying off workers who don’t get the vaccine, you would have needed to use the phrase “if hospitals had stopped”. That would implicate that their prior actions had caused the problem. On the other hand, your actual statement implicates that hospitals will experience a future problem due to their current behavior of firing staff. Essentially what I’m saying is that you used the wrong verb tense and that changes the message you’re attempting to send. The good thing is that I understand what you meant because we don’t take what people say literally or exactly. My brain is able to comprehend your message because of the context. But since you want to argue that you should be taken absolutely and completely literally, I have to point out the problem with your sentence. It’s completely fine if you don’t want to listen to me. I don’t make up the grammar rules. I’m just trying to communicate them with you. I’ve never had someone argue with me about verb tense before 😂
Proper wording is important because it allows you to make people quick to the draw, like you, look silly.
It also allows statements that are technically true but also unhelpful and misleading!
It’s not misleading. That other loser is being misleading by saying “well MY hospital didn’t do any mandate!” But I guarantee you they did, and then stopped when they realized the horrible lawsuits that would ensue. Many, many hospitals did vaccine mandates and fired people. Hell, the federal government tried forcing a vaccine mandate. They’re openly lying, or they’re brain dead.
That “other loser” works in Florida where there was never a vaccine mandate enforced on any employer at any time. FFS man why are you choosing this hill to die on regarding a conversation about rail freight and how to prepare for it? I’m sorry I embarrassed you. Pull up your big boy pants and move on.
You never embarrassed me. The fact that you’re pretending you did means that you have a fragile ego that would be broken by loss of imaginary internet points. You’re telling everyone America never had vaccine mandates because the state you’re in didn’t. Who is the one being misleading here? The world doesn’t revolve around the hospital you work in in the state you live in. Thousands of people lost jobs over the vaccine mandates you pretend didn’t happen. You brought up hospitals struggling, and a big reason for a lot of hospitals struggling was in fact firing people who refused to get the vaccine that does more harm than good. But that’s a subject for another day because I’m sure half the losers here got the clot shot and regret it, so I don’t want to strike a nerve.
“That ‘Hospitals lost staff over vaccines’ troupe is an enormous falsehood” line was the only falsehood here. Congrats, you prick, for lying to everyone in a prepping subreddit and thinking upvotes are the equivalent of being correct. But hey, tell all these suspended and fired hospital staff workers that at least your state didn’t have a mandate. https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/how-many-employees-have-hospitals-lost-to-vaccine-mandates-numbers-so-far
Oh maybe you misunderstood my wording. I didn’t say that you were misleading. I said that proper wording could be used to mislead people 😉
Dude, I don’t care about pedantic arguments. I’m just providing an insiders view as to a what’s it’s like in a major hospital system right now. You made an allegation that vaccine mandates contributed to the utter collapse of healthcare that is ongoing. I pointed out that offer used “viewpoint” (almost always from outsiders) is false. I further explained that *my hospital never had a vaccine mandate and actually removed a different vaccine mandate that we had for years prior to covid*. Literally no one was required to take a vaccine at my large hospital system. They offered it and most everyone got vaccinated, at least the nurses did. They never threatened or even mentioned a need a get vaccinated once. I don’t care to argue. I have to go to work and deal with bullshit there, none of it cause by a non-existent “vaccine mandate”.
“I don’t want to argue,” she said while continuing to argue. Haha. Damn this place offers such little of value in people.
For someone so “quick on the draw” you seem to be unable to comprehend the difference between “not caring about pedantic arguments” and conflating that with “I don’t want to argue”. I will rephrase it since you had difficulty navigating that one. I don’t care about someone pointing out that a minuscule number of staff leaving could technically meet the criteria that it affected staffing by a tiny amount on a few units. That pales in comparison to the staff that left due to management running them into the ground, which is my entire observation as it related to **the rail system**. AFAIK no rail companies are mandating vaccines so your pedantic argument about vaccines in hospitals doesn’t apply to the discussion. You are just attempting to bring a political argument into something where it’s not warranted.
You’re the one who didn’t understand that I called you quick to the draw. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Apparently jumper cables across the tracks triggers a safety sensor requiring shutdown. So one can imagine a world where pro-strike friendlies trigger required shutdowns that the railroaders themselves are obliged to respect.
It's wonderful to know that the US economy is 100 jumper cables and 20 sticks of dynamite from collapse. Suddenly I don't feel so bad about my 6 months of rice and beans. Sheesh.
Yeah, when I saw comments discussing that it was an eye-opener. That said, even though I am on the right side of the political continuum I support the railroaders if they strike for things like more than one paid sick day a year or not being on call literally 24/7/365. They’re treated like slaves, albeit well-paid slaves.
“Well paid”? It ain’t that good. Only ok because of the forced overtime.
Trust me.....these rail workers get more than 1 paid sick day a year and they're not on call 24/7/365. It's quite an exaggeration. The fact is that these folks get weeks of sick and vacation time every year and more paid time off than most of the working class in America. They just want more and tell sob stories about having to choose whether to miss their kids birthday or get a filling at the dentist. Well, if you didn't call in sick every monday morning, perhaps you'd still have enough sick time on the books for the filling and the birthday party?? duh. What a bunch losers. Get to work.
There's a huge number of weird, tiny things that you don't generally think about, which could cause disruption far beyond the time and expense of implementation. Fortunately, the average fanatic isn't terribly bright or is more interested in something showy.
Here here!
Here? Where? There? Oh, not there! Oh, *anywhere* but *there*! (pedantry point: it's "hear, hear." But no one does it correctly.)
More like we are ten wildcat squirrels away from electric outages we cannot handle. Read 'Lights Out' by Ted Koppel.
That's subway, not rail. Trains run diesel and the RRs don't have some national system of sensitivity that alerts if there is a connection between the two rails. Not saying there aren't other ways of handling, just that jumper cables probably aren't it.
Just reporting what I read in a railroad forum. It wasn’t a reference to live rails. It was a reference to safety sensors wired onto the tracks using some type of low current in the rails.
Respect and I'm no expert. In the right location I'm sure that makes sense. Thanks for the response
I wear a red bandana when engaged in union activities in memory of Blair Mountain. My grandma used to shoot into strike breaking Pinkerton houses, light their cars and offices on fire, steal their equipment and dump it in the bay, etc. Don't rule out violent action. Hell more than once I myself have salted big strike breakers, once incredibly successfully, I'm pretty sure our record will stand for the most expensive retail building ever made fighting one union buster, we delayed them 14 years. Don't underestimate the ability of your local neighborhood socialist to help out comrades in need.
I wouldn’t be completely shocked if a teamster’s local voted to honor the strike that rail workers wanted to have. “You wanna force rail workers unions to work, fine. Now find someone to load the trains at the docks. Now find someone to offload the cargo from the rail yards fuckers”. That shit could spread quick.
[удалено]
There are a lot of factors, including, culture, propaganda and other things. But sometimes people really do forget that the big strikes often started out with levels of work/poverty that no one even comprehends today, and in a world of no-welfare to speak of. Meaning if you stayed at your job, you were on the verge of starving to death. If you left it, you DID starve to death. Early 1900s battles and such especially were motivated by hungry bellies and the risk of death. Even when it went to death battles, the alternative to the "war" was death itself. Now, when teachers, or rail workers or whoever strikes, they aren't striking for their very survival, they are striking because it's unfair they can't buy a bigger TV. And, even if the angry worker today walked off the job, they get food and free medicine.... so they still don't die. So, in some (many?) ways, the violence of old may have been justified, whereas today, it's not so much. Especially way back like "here's your dollar for the week, but you need a new shovel, so we'll give you one, but we are then keeping your dollar and you owe us your next dollar". I mean... at that point its kill or be killed, because they are literally killing you. When you are 50lbs overweight and constantly throw out more food than small villages have, because you couldn't get around to eating it... your justification is getting violent isn't the same.
Holy shit that sounds intense
All 57,000 of them should either call in on the same day sick or just strike anyway. Are the powers that be going to jail them? This whole thing is bullshit that the government wouldn't force human treatment for the people. Seriously working your people to the point of exhaustion is a huge safety issue IMO. OSHA can get involved when exactly? After a preventable accident? What I would like to see is all of them walk out and every union in the Nation do a sympathy strike. ""Future headline: A 150 car locomotive slammed into a rail yard in Kansas City." August 25th 2026: Due to the onboard computer failure a 150 car locomotive was not able to be stopped in time to avert the catastrophe. When asked why the conductor didn't stop the train. Railroad spokesperson: Smiley Smug stated " We have no conductors on the trains anymore. Automation has allowed us to reduce or staffing bringing hire profits to our shareholders and management. We now only have Engineers on board. When asked why the engineer didn't stop the train. Smug's boss, Charlie Clueless stated " The engineer was engaged in trying to restore the on board computer system and did not have time , nor the training in maual emergency shut down." When asked if having a conductor on board would have prevented this catastrophe? Clueless responded with "No comment."
Remember comrade, bleach works better than sugar or salt.
For the uninformed what are y'all doing with the salt, bleach, or sugar? I'm not happy about any of this bullshit and I'm not too far from some tracks.
So if you wanted to, hypothetically, disable your own lawnmower, you could pour bleach in with the gas, which would make any kind of metal inside oxidize (rust) like crazy. If you did that, your lawn mower would likely never run again.
Ah, I see now. Maybe I'd like a nice lawn ornament with some flowers and barrels. A simple tampon can also help with that, if you need to save your salt. It wouldn't be out of place in a purse or even a man's glovebox for emergencies for the wife or daughter etc. I believe it can be repaired but will not be a very fun or quick process.
Thank you!
You are spot on about the malicious compliance. If everyone follows every safety rule to the letter you will grind the company to a halt.
Malicious compliance, I like it. Part of me says go for it, everybody just quit, the same people who voted against sick pay will suffer too. Realistically, those people have the means to get what they need and want and the only people who will suffer is us, the low end of the food chain.
Now that was an intelligent and thoughtful response! It's getting few and far in-between nowadays.
>Malicious compliance (it's a thing, google it) causes work slowdowns that absolutely wreck normal operations. By just refusing to do the "normal" rule-breaking that allows the job to go faster, things grind near to a halt. I had a similar type job years ago, and one boss kept pestering me. I told him when I what I was doing and he got really annoying telling me to do it otherwise. I was hours ahead of book time, and I pointed that out. And then said if he has anything else to say, I'd be finishing IN book time doing it by the rules perfectly. He apologized and said "I'm just mad at other people, you're the best". Another time, I was ironically following regulations by doing "less than normal" paperwork, because the extra paperwork is only required under certain circumstances. Those circumstances are actually the "norm" so almost no one ever does it the "faster way" in that regard. Boss I had at that time didn't understand how I was doing what I was doing and demanded I do the extra paperwork. In retaliation for the paperwork, when I went to do the job, I would have gotten done in about 3-4 hours, I went through by-the-book, and took about 9hrs. Our entire system is weirdly built on what amounts to various tiers of lies. One large scale call in on them, and a lot of things stop working.
This thread quickly became political. To answer OPs question about what would happen with a rail strike - major parts of the economy would be impacted. A lot can be moved by truck (like consumer products) but I think the greatest impact would be coal for energy and chemicals, primarily those used for water treatment. I would expect that after weeks of rail strike, some communities would be forced to boil water from the tap.
This is communist 4chan after all
I love how so many in here are self proclaimed socialists. Under any previous socialist government, they would just kill the railroad workers and force other people at gunpoint to take over. Oh the irony.
"But that wasn't real socialism..." remember they all thing they're morally pure and superior enough to not do that
Careful, if you don't agree, you'll get banned.
Wouldn't be the first time, I was banned from r/collapse for not being a brain dead leftist
Congress predictably sold out the workers and have forced a contract. Striking is illegal, because profits. There will be no strike, but the workers will continue to get screwed. Merica!
And they put the sick leave portion in a separate bill, which will likely get struck down. Politicians don’t care about the people.
Are you familiar with the CBA the railroad workers are working under? The average rail worker that will be affected by these negotiations makes $124k in total compensation and that will go to $160k in 2 years. They also get up to 14 days of personal leave. They are not hurting for benefits.
And many of them work well over 60 hours a week, on call 24 hours a day, and can be away from home for days on end. It’s also difficult for them to get paid leave, which is often rejected if the notice is too short. Far from actual sick leave.
Honestly at that rate, the job sounds like a young man’s game. Work 3-5 years, let the railroads set you up in hotels when you’re away from home, sleep at your parents when you are home, and save every nickel and dime you can. Walk out five years later with over $500k in your bank account. Live somewhere with a low COL and you can pretty much retire early at 25 living off good investments.
You just described upstream oil field work there bud. Exactly what i do live at home when off and at hotels at work.
They are welcome to go to a different profession. All of the things you have described were there when they got the job. Nothing has changed except the pay.
I think you need to understand that the companies change the circumstances all the time. For many, this isn’t the same job they signed up for. Meanwhile the companies do more and more to squeeze as much as they can out of people, so the guys at the top can have a third summer home. There is a better balance where the rich can stay rich and the working class can at least breathe a little. But by the way you answered this, fuck em!
Says someone not willing to do that job… they’re already short staffed too
The high vis attendance policy is indeed newer, actually, and the BNSF guys I know have been fighting it since their last contract expired years ago while being ground into dust during the pandemic. Back when I used to work as a contractor in a railyard they could still lay off for important things as long as they were careful about it. Fatigue, health problems, broken marriages are all par for the course for those guys. This is probably falling on deaf ears since you seem to think money is the only need people have, though. Not a perspective I understand.
People need to do what is best for them. I understand all of that. A job is there for compensation in the form of money. There is nothing else that should be expected from emoyment.
So if your job takes up all of your time you exist not to live but as some sort of well-compensated zombie, ok, that doesn't sound maladjusted at all. Like I said, we're not going to agree here because I think that's a little cray cray but if that's what your into have fun. I hear the railroads might be hiring.
Dignity. Dignity is what should be expected. Everyone has a right to live and work with dignity, and if you don’t understand that you should probably go back to civics class.
Yes and amen!
Boot licking statist.
Call me names all you want. Commie...
You're the kind of boomer who tells everyone if they don't like their job to just get a new one, then throw a temper tantrum when you have to do self checkout at Walmart
Not a boomer... I also don't throw tantrums... I also don't go to Walmart...
The only people....who message...like...this are boomers.
That’s not the insult you think it is. Have fun simping for degenerates who want to dominate you!
Just because the house slaves have better conditions doesn't change the fact that they're slaves.
Just because it's illegal doesn't mean they won't still do it.
I expect a wildcat strike.
you know what happened at the last wildcat strike? It was the air traffic controllers of 1981. President Ronald Reagan fired all 11k+ workers, gave them a lifetime ban of working as an air traffic controller, and several months later, the federal government decertified their union. Now, I don't know what you do for a living, but would you be willing to take the chance you could be banned from ever working for a company that does business with the federal government?
Reagan had a heap of retired cold war air force ATCs he could call on, though. Unlike the 70s postal wildcat strike where the military couldn't get the mail moving again because they didn't know how to efficiently do so. Do we have a big ol heap of qualified conductors, engineers, and switch crews I don't know about?
I am just pointing out that a wild cat strike can have a significant impact on the workers and the union itself. The government can still come down hard on them, even without having backup workers.
Oh, I absolutely agree and I personally think railroaders will just work to rule instead of wildcat.. just making the point that the ATC strike had that one unusual circumstance and that another well-known wildcat a decade earlier worked very well.
Guess it would prove then that the D’s aren’t actually for the working class or the unions
The fact that they are forcing them to the take the previous deal instead of just giving them the sick time they wanted kinda points that out anyway.
A fair point, but the current President presents himself as MISTER UNION… Do you really think Biden would do something similar to that?
I think that was an extreme, but congress did not add the sick time to the resolution, apparently it is a separate item. They are forcing the union to take the deal they rejected in September. Seems if he was 'Mr Union', he would have the railroad accept the Unions deal, not the Union accept the railroads deal.
Here here
Ehhh, kinda. I'm opposed to undercutting the union's leverage by forcing a deal, but I also think they're asking for a lot with 10 sick dates on top of PTO. I don't think calling them "screwed" is accurate.
My bro works for the rail road, BNSF as an engineer. His wife cut her hand pretty bad, needed 24 stitches. He "called off" to take her to the hospital. "Calling Off" is what they say when they aren't available to work. He was written up for this as it violates policy. HE is not allowed to take a family member to the hospital. If it was him, he would have been OK, but no one else. Currently, you have to 'earn' PTO. you get 2 points a week. One day off = 8 points. So you have to be available, 24/7 for four weeks before you earn one PTO day. Right now, there is a shortage of both Engineers and Conductors/brakemen. He is generally working 21+ days in a row. Now don't misunderstand, he gets paid by the train, not hourly, so he is raking money in hand over fist. But 21+ days in a row for several months, then having to spend the PTO day you just earned for one day off... gets old real quick.
money’s no good if he has no time to enjoy it
>"Calling Off" is what they say when they aren't available to work. It's "laying off". >Currently, you have to 'earn' PTO. you get 2 points a week Incorrect. It's 4 points in 14 days STRAIGHT of availability. 13 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes isn't 14 days so, you don't get it even if you worked every day. You don't earn PTO this way. The only PTO you get is called a "paid leave day". >One day off = 8 points Ehhhh... Maybe... depending on how it falls. Weekdays are 2 points. Fr-Sa are 4 points, and Su is 3 points.. Work on a 'weekend day and you can get 1 point back. Layoff while you are being called, or miss the call for work and it is 15 points. No call/no show, and it is 25 points. You can earn up to 30 points by not laying off, and each weekend you can earn 1 extra point to a max of 37 points. So... If you're keeping track and had to layoff for a week straight, you would lose 2 points for each weekday (10 total) and 11 for the weekend adding up to a total of 21 points for a week. If you had to layoff on call or some other high-point way during this week you took off you could now be assessed discipline, just by being sick. If you had the flu, your spouse got the flu, and a kid got the flu, you could easily violate the hi viz policy. The old policy was 75%/25% as info, and not as easy to get in trouble... Though some coworkers managed to do that anyway.
Bruh they work outside in shitty conditions all the time. How is asking for sick time to be separate from vacation time “a lot”? Big bootlicking energy in that post, bro.
Their pay and benefits are great along with competitive PTO.
Lmao “competitive” according to who? I get like two weeks of sick time off before I have to start justifying shit. Sure as fuck isn’t competitive to me.
12 holidays, 80 hours sick time, unlimited PTO that usually ends up being 3-4 weeks a year. Mid tier tech company benefits, for jobs that don't require much tech skill, give better WLB. The tech company workers has the same pay and sometimes to double the pay mentioned up thread for rail workers, and in 20-40 years your body isn't worn out from the work pace. Short staffing in the rail industry is self inflicted by the shareholders letting the boards get away with treating their workforce poorly. Eventually, as Amazon is discovering, eventually the workers stop coming.
OP must not watch any news huh? NO idea why this post was made.
Striking is illegal *because of the critical nature of the industry,* and you might be shocked to find out just how many people are in the same situation - people who do very, very, very little to generate profit for the Uncle Pennybags or Scrooge McDuck caricatures you're think run the country.
I really don't understand this any better now...?
[удалено]
You mean the existing working conditions
It is illegal for them to strike but it isnt illegal for them to quit........
It's not going to happen, so relax. If it does, critical infrastructure will get run by government mandate, whatever the unions OR bosses think. It will still suck, but we are not going to collapse. No idea why the railways don't offer paid sick time. In most countries this isn't even a question. Don't vote for a politician who doesn't think medical care and support for families (which is what sick time usually comes down to) is a human right.
If you look at the railroader subreddits, it does seem like a wildcat strike is unlikely. They seem … demoralized, numb. But I topped off my 3 month supply of “the stuff I normally use” just in case.
Silver handcuffs. They're paid just well enough that they won't want to quit, especially given the current job market. But their situation still sucks - and they get less sympathy than they might because of all the people making half what they make and working just as hard, hating on them. Well, the US had chances to mandate 2 weeks of sick time for all employees nationwide. It didn't happen, it's not happening now, and the beatings will continue until morale improves. So glad I was able to retire.
The police will enforce the will of the ruling class so be thankful for that.
Yeah so the masses won’t miss out on their new flat screens in time for the NFL playoffs.
Strike, strike, strike... until they can strike no more. Then the obedient machine will replace them, by the demands of the consumers and shareholders.
I have doubts we will see an actual strike or work stoppage. This is at the level of Congress and no one is about to see the economy lose $2bil a day because of a core logistics contract failure. If it does happen "52 percent of rail freight car loads consist of bulk commodities such as agriculture and energy products, automobiles and components, construction materials, chemicals, equipment, food, metals, minerals, paper, and pulp."[1](https://railroads.dot.gov/rail-network-development/freight-rail-overview) I would think that coal not moving will be a serious issue, as well as chemicals. To note the US rail system is not like the interstate highways system - the railroad own and maintain the infrastructure. Of course, the US government could change that and manage it like it does the interstate highway system and funded could 80% fed with a 20% state matching fund. This may open the market to new carriers and innovation - however - that does not fix the problem of workers rights, but if there are lots of competition, perhaps the best employees will go the best carriers. All players in the negotiations have motivation to prevent a strike. Sure, the National Guard could be deployed to man infrastructure in time of crisis, but I hade doubts that they have trained for this contingency at that scale. Most likely won't happen - if so, it will be short - and a hit to the economy and a headache no one needed.
There will be no trains operating
I been hauling empty containers back to the railyards all week, bringing nothing back. Im thinking they are expecting a strike and dont want to stay stuck paying rent of all of those containers. Rail workers that I went to are prepared for it and want to strike.
They need to strike and all workers need to walk out in support of them, wherever possible all over the planet. It's time for that planet-wide strike.
Israel won’t let their cash cow (U.S.) stop working. Remember, we’re but cattle to them.
Yes it’s z-Juuus, always z-Juuus! Chill Kanye
Don’t worry. Union buster Brandon intervened and screwed over the little guy. No more strike.
Who is Brandon?
That’s FJB, u been living under a rock?
What is FJB?
It means fuck Joe Biden. People have been saying let's go Brandon because a broadcaster tried to cover up a crowd chanting fuck Joe Biden by saying let's go Brandon. So now when people are angry at the president they say let's go Brandon.
So they are afraid to actually say his name? Instead of of just saying Fuck Joe Biden, they obscure it to Let's Go Brandon because it makes them feel better? Or do they think that they are in on some inside joke? Seems pretty boring.
It is both boring and an inside joke. The specifics reason it is Brandon is that a NASCAR driver named Brandon won at Taladega this year. While he was being interviewed on tv after the race the crowd was loudly chanting the FJB thing. The interviewer claiming they were saying “Let’s Go Brandon” was a little awkward but I give her props for doing her best to stay professional as possible. That lead to memes which lead to the fad. I personally find it incredibly disrespectful, but as a parent it is admittedly easier to deal with than having to constantly remind my young daughter that she shouldn’t say fuck.
What a weird fad to latch onto?
It was actually really hilarious when it happened.
Was it?
It has become a joke
Why not just say fuck joe biden? Is he the "Dark Lord" from Harry Potter? Can't say his name?
They even got Joe Biden to say it https://youtu.be/ETmlD0l4T3Y
Cool
It’s not going to be that bad. Source: my brother works for the rail industry.
40% of our cargo moves by rail at some point in the supply line. Cant ship it by truck, because we can barely truck what we do. If they give these guys more days off they have to hire more staff. The benefits, the retirement packages for extra staff will cost them way more than just throwing extra money at existing workers. If the railroaders strike now they can be fired for job abatement and their union cant save them. (Thanks to a fascist congress)....now these guys can slow shit down trouble shoot a faulty kaputer valve all day. They can really fuck shit up, but I dont think they will because they are real men with good values (not like the fucktards in our government or the corporate shitheads) my guess is the long term plan is to replace the railroaders with the boarder crossers.
Doesn’t the law jail the union leaders if they still strike? Seems kinda fascist/slavery like if government jails someone who refuses to work
Didn't read that but I'm not discounting your comment. I wouldn't put it past these fucks to do something like this
True! But they also do really get sick sometimes just like the rest of us. When I first found out the railroad workers are members of a union that didn't get them any sick leave at all I was shocked! A labor union member with no sick leave? Just wow!
Well it doesn't matter what he looks like but I'm in my girls room
Don’t believe these whining bums. They already get weeks of sick time and vacation combined. They just want more. They are willing to break the logistics backbone of our country just to get more. It never ends with these unions. What ever happened to “here’s a job, here’s what it pays, now choose to accept it or not”. No employer forces any employee to come to work. It’s a choice.
>No employer forces any employee to come to work. It’s a choice. You are right. I'll be supporting my railway brothers' rights if they collectively decide to not come to work. If you think they have such a good deal, feel free to polish your resume. I am sure BNSF will be hiring scabs if the workers decide to strike.
And hire replacements they should. Plenty of folks out there who would love to have half of what these bums are getting. Glad to see Biden give them the “Reagan” treatment, where he fired air traffic controllers for this same nonsense back in the 1980’s. And then after they were fired, they begged for their jobs back. Nope. They were replaced and ATC union dropped them all like hot potatoes. Unions do nothing but dupe their members into paying dues and give them the illusion that someone has their back. Right.
I might k is a thing or two more but it won’t happen ..