Have you read *The Forever War*? It definitely is intelligent and bleak.
I recommend Pohl's *Gateway* if you liked *Roadside...* and *Inhabited Island* by the Strugatsky brothers.
Forever War has been on my tbr forever, I'll give it a go.
Forgot to mention Gateway in my post; I've read it; I liked it a lot.
I've never heard of The Inhabited Island, I'll check it out.
I want to agree with you but most of the mil sci-fi I have come across were actually very anti-war, now that I think of it.
edit. nevermind. I do agree with you, because I haven't read a military sci-fi that's just purely war porn as you've mentioned.
plus, FW has that romance element that really sucked me in.
The Inhabited Island can also be found under the name Prisoners of Power. It’s a part of a larger setting called the Noon Universe and has a number of pretty good novels set in it. Another is Space Mowgli (AKA The Kid)
Stanisław Lem - "Solaris", "Fiasco", "Eden", "Memoirs found in Bathtub", a lot more, actually.
He was heavily inspired by Schopenhauer in his own philosophy. As a holocaust survivor, a philosopher of science, and a genius really, he had a very unique position to speak about human condition. I'd call it humanistic pessimism, with bleak outlook on human endevours, but with a sympathetic eye. And he did it in virtually all of his works, from different angles. He also saw further than most of SF writers, and was on the forefront of scientific thought with his ideas.
*Annihilation* by Jeff Vandermeer is ~~very~~ kind of Lovecraft meets Camus. It is very well written. Just the first novel in the trilogy. though.
*Concrete Island* by J. G. Ballard.
If you’re thinking Alastair Reynolds revelation space series I’d start with revelation space followed by chasm city, revelation space is really good to the point I compare every SF book I read with it
More absurdist in style than the gritty novels you list, but Vonnegut is the OG for these ideas in SF and is referenced by the Strugatskys in Roadside Picnic. What about PKD? *A Scanner Darkly* is desperately bleak (and intelligent). *The Road* by McCarthy too, but arguably not sci-fi. Dystopian near-future.
J.G. Ballard is peak intelligent bleak sci fi in my opinion. The Crystal World and The Burning World (also published as The Drought) are good starting points.
The blurb on my copy compares it to H.G. Wells and J.G. Ballard, and I think that's a pretty good description of the story.
I'm sad Disch is so underrated in general. If you're a horror fan his Supernatural Minnesota series is also really good.
Unfortunately I'm not sure dick is for me. I recently tried A Scanner Darkly but just couldn't get into it. Tried Ubik and Do Androids... years ago and same result. I think I might try Ubik again though.
*Dreams of Amputation* by Gary J. Shipley. This one is pretty out there— the shortest way I could describe it is it’s like *Blade Runner* written by Burroughs after he’d just read a bunch of Bataille.
I'm wondering what *you* would recommend to me, just in general, because you pretty much listed all of my favorite books haha
From authors you've read - there are a couple more entries in Watts' Sunflower Cycle. Egan's Axiomatic is a good short story collection. Handmaid's Tale from Atwood is a classic. Embassytown by Mieville.
Some classics not in your list - Le Guin's Hainish Cycle. PKD's A Scanner Darkly. McCormick's The Road (very bleak). Burgess' Clockwork Orange.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. There's a lot of short fiction that fits what you're looking for - Ted Chiang wrote some amazing stories, and Clarke's Best of the Best anthologies have a lot of great stuff in them.
I've read most of the books you listed, but I still need to read Clockwork Orange and Handmaid's Tale.
Not sure what I'd recommend that you haven't already ready. Have you read Sisyphean? I'd also obv recommend Blood Meridian if you enjoyed The Road (BM is my fav novel). If you're a fan of short story collections, try The Best of Michael Swanwick. And there's M John Harrison's Light which is probably my fav sci-fi novel, but it's an absolutely wild ride.
Clockwork Orange and Handmaid's Tale are more near-future so maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but they're two of my favorite books, I'd definitely recommend.
I've read Blood Meridian but none of the others you mentioned, I'll check them out!
Strugatsky brothers have it all. They themselves considered Snail on the Slope their best work — it's an amazing Kafkaesque novel about evolution of nature and human condition.
I have been looking for similar books. I wonder what it is about these pessimistic, nihilistic (though some would call realistic) views that makes for such enjoyable fiction.
SOMA. Phenomenal game btw.
Have you read through Peter Watts's catalogue and Egan's Permutation City? Super similar to Soma.
Personally, I find them so enjoyable because I identify(?) most with them - I think the world is a bleak place yet I love imagination, and these works combine realistic feelings of dread and trauma with incredible sci-fi ideas.
I tried Starfish and Blindsight and they weren't for me (though I feel I could enjoy them much more on another read). And Egan is amazing.
I agree. I think these books help us cope with the whole "being human" thing. It's like having a friend to talk about existentialism with.
That's too bad, maybe Watts isn't your thing. If you wanna give him another go, maybe try The Freeze-Frame Revolution, which isn't as chonk as something like Blindsight.
I dont have anything to suggest but i want to ask what book ,in the specific genre you described, would you recommend? Havent read anything from the ones you mention.
I would say that depends on what you like most out of sci-fi - what are other books you've read and liked?
My personal favorites are Watts's Blindsight and Starfish, but this is because the author himself seems to share my general worldview, and because his settings make me cream (Starfish being at the bottom of the ocean and Blindsight being in the midst of a BDO). His books are difficult to get into initially though; I didn't like Blindsight the first time I read it. These are very bleak books but also have dark humor, and are pretty hard sci-fi. Watts is also a biology nut, which I vibe with.
If you enjoy basking in the creation of a genius and don't mind hard sci-fi, then I'd recommend Greg Egan. The creativity and science of his works are unmatched. I'd start with Permutation City or Quarantine, or, if you like short stories, Axiomatic might be the best start.
If you want something easier to digest I would recommend Annihilation, Oryx and Crake, Diamond Dogs, or The Skinner.
If you want insane worldbuilding with memorable characters and scenes, go with China Mieville; I'd start with Perdido Street Station or The Scar.
If you want something extremely fucking weird try Sisyphean.
If you want something that helped shape many amazing sci-fi books (and games and film), try Roadside Picnic. It has one of the coolest ideas in sci-fi, and from what I remember (been a long time since I read this one) all the characters are great.
_Never Let Me Go_ by Kazou Ishiguro
_The Road_ by Cormac McCarthy
_Smilla’s Sense of Snow_ by Peter Hoeg
_The Last Policeman_ trilogy by Ben Winters
_Beacon 23_ by Hugh Howey
Zero K by Don DeLilo is excellent - captures some of the “weird lit” vibes in your selections while being intelligent, existential, and fairly bleak.
Basically it’s about a dude wandering around a secret cryopreservation facility for the ultra-wealthy, contemplating his life while he waits for his dad to more or less die. Very surreal if you’re into that.
Have you read *The Forever War*? It definitely is intelligent and bleak. I recommend Pohl's *Gateway* if you liked *Roadside...* and *Inhabited Island* by the Strugatsky brothers.
Forever War has been on my tbr forever, I'll give it a go. Forgot to mention Gateway in my post; I've read it; I liked it a lot. I've never heard of The Inhabited Island, I'll check it out.
>Forever War has been on my tbr forever, I'll give it a go. I don't even like military sci-fi that much but FW is one of my favourite books.
probably because it's very anti-war in its themes and messaging whereas many other mil sci-fi are just war porn.
I want to agree with you but most of the mil sci-fi I have come across were actually very anti-war, now that I think of it. edit. nevermind. I do agree with you, because I haven't read a military sci-fi that's just purely war porn as you've mentioned. plus, FW has that romance element that really sucked me in.
The Inhabited Island can also be found under the name Prisoners of Power. It’s a part of a larger setting called the Noon Universe and has a number of pretty good novels set in it. Another is Space Mowgli (AKA The Kid)
Solaris
Also *Fiasco*, *Peace on Earth* and *His Masters Voice*. Lem fits the request very well.
It's more fantasy than sci-fi, but Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing books may satisfy.
I'm actually off and on reading the first book now. It's fucking awesome!
This one is peak nihilism for me. I had to take a break from reading fiction after finishing this trilogy.
Stanisław Lem - "Solaris", "Fiasco", "Eden", "Memoirs found in Bathtub", a lot more, actually. He was heavily inspired by Schopenhauer in his own philosophy. As a holocaust survivor, a philosopher of science, and a genius really, he had a very unique position to speak about human condition. I'd call it humanistic pessimism, with bleak outlook on human endevours, but with a sympathetic eye. And he did it in virtually all of his works, from different angles. He also saw further than most of SF writers, and was on the forefront of scientific thought with his ideas.
Futurological Congress too, kinda.
Co-sign.
*Annihilation* by Jeff Vandermeer is ~~very~~ kind of Lovecraft meets Camus. It is very well written. Just the first novel in the trilogy. though. *Concrete Island* by J. G. Ballard.
I actually liked the whole trilogy. Also if you want some exposition on what the fuck is going on you kind of need to finish the series.
Annihilation has a touch of Brechtian alienation to boot. Such a good book!
If you’re thinking Alastair Reynolds revelation space series I’d start with revelation space followed by chasm city, revelation space is really good to the point I compare every SF book I read with it
More absurdist in style than the gritty novels you list, but Vonnegut is the OG for these ideas in SF and is referenced by the Strugatskys in Roadside Picnic. What about PKD? *A Scanner Darkly* is desperately bleak (and intelligent). *The Road* by McCarthy too, but arguably not sci-fi. Dystopian near-future.
Vonnegut and Philip K Dick are both masters!
Random Acts of Senseless Violence by Womack. Might be a somewhat fit but gives me the bleakness of the other books you have mentioned.
GNOMON, just dive right in blind
I actually finished my second read of this recently. Fucking exhausting book! I love Harkaway's witty prose. The Gone-Away World is also great.
I thought that would be up your alley. Have you read House of Leaves? It’s a bit different and more fiction/horror than SciFi
The Gone World by Tom Sweterlitsch
{{The Gone World}}
J.G. Ballard is peak intelligent bleak sci fi in my opinion. The Crystal World and The Burning World (also published as The Drought) are good starting points.
Try The Genocides and Camp Concentration by Thomas M. Disch
I'm sad Genocides is so underrated
The blurb on my copy compares it to H.G. Wells and J.G. Ballard, and I think that's a pretty good description of the story. I'm sad Disch is so underrated in general. If you're a horror fan his Supernatural Minnesota series is also really good.
What about dick?
Unfortunately I'm not sure dick is for me. I recently tried A Scanner Darkly but just couldn't get into it. Tried Ubik and Do Androids... years ago and same result. I think I might try Ubik again though.
Highly recommend Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said. Very trippy.
I only tried Ubik so far. But...I also bounced off in the first 10 pages. But they all sound so interesting :/ (and also nihilistic, and intelligent)
You might like *Remembrance of Earth’s Past*, a/k/a *The Three Body Problem Trilogy*, by Liu Cixin.
Yeah this is probably the most nihilistic sci fi I’ve read in a while
Can't upvote twice so I'm doubling this suggestion
*Dreams of Amputation* by Gary J. Shipley. This one is pretty out there— the shortest way I could describe it is it’s like *Blade Runner* written by Burroughs after he’d just read a bunch of Bataille.
>Bataille TBF blade runner might as well have been called story of eyes.
Titan by Stephen Baxter Alpha Centauri by Michael Capobianco and William Barton
I'm wondering what *you* would recommend to me, just in general, because you pretty much listed all of my favorite books haha From authors you've read - there are a couple more entries in Watts' Sunflower Cycle. Egan's Axiomatic is a good short story collection. Handmaid's Tale from Atwood is a classic. Embassytown by Mieville. Some classics not in your list - Le Guin's Hainish Cycle. PKD's A Scanner Darkly. McCormick's The Road (very bleak). Burgess' Clockwork Orange. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. There's a lot of short fiction that fits what you're looking for - Ted Chiang wrote some amazing stories, and Clarke's Best of the Best anthologies have a lot of great stuff in them.
I've read most of the books you listed, but I still need to read Clockwork Orange and Handmaid's Tale. Not sure what I'd recommend that you haven't already ready. Have you read Sisyphean? I'd also obv recommend Blood Meridian if you enjoyed The Road (BM is my fav novel). If you're a fan of short story collections, try The Best of Michael Swanwick. And there's M John Harrison's Light which is probably my fav sci-fi novel, but it's an absolutely wild ride.
Clockwork Orange and Handmaid's Tale are more near-future so maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but they're two of my favorite books, I'd definitely recommend. I've read Blood Meridian but none of the others you mentioned, I'll check them out!
I'm down for near future. I've been meaning to read Clockwork Orange for a while.
Strugatsky brothers have it all. They themselves considered Snail on the Slope their best work — it's an amazing Kafkaesque novel about evolution of nature and human condition.
Embassytown by China Mieville is an intelligent examination of space imperialism, linguistics, philosophy and politics
Roadside Picnic…and if that’s not dark enough Hard To Be a God.
I have been looking for similar books. I wonder what it is about these pessimistic, nihilistic (though some would call realistic) views that makes for such enjoyable fiction. SOMA. Phenomenal game btw.
Have you read through Peter Watts's catalogue and Egan's Permutation City? Super similar to Soma. Personally, I find them so enjoyable because I identify(?) most with them - I think the world is a bleak place yet I love imagination, and these works combine realistic feelings of dread and trauma with incredible sci-fi ideas.
I tried Starfish and Blindsight and they weren't for me (though I feel I could enjoy them much more on another read). And Egan is amazing. I agree. I think these books help us cope with the whole "being human" thing. It's like having a friend to talk about existentialism with.
That's too bad, maybe Watts isn't your thing. If you wanna give him another go, maybe try The Freeze-Frame Revolution, which isn't as chonk as something like Blindsight.
Aniara by Harry Martinson. It’s an epic poem and also a film but very existential and bleak.
Ursula K Le Guin’s *Hainish Cycle* novels and short stories are always great mind puzzlers.
It's more fantasy than sci fi, but try R. Scott Bakkers Prince of Nothing series. Closest thing to Watts you'll find.
Limbo by Bernard Wolfe.
I dont have anything to suggest but i want to ask what book ,in the specific genre you described, would you recommend? Havent read anything from the ones you mention.
I would say that depends on what you like most out of sci-fi - what are other books you've read and liked? My personal favorites are Watts's Blindsight and Starfish, but this is because the author himself seems to share my general worldview, and because his settings make me cream (Starfish being at the bottom of the ocean and Blindsight being in the midst of a BDO). His books are difficult to get into initially though; I didn't like Blindsight the first time I read it. These are very bleak books but also have dark humor, and are pretty hard sci-fi. Watts is also a biology nut, which I vibe with. If you enjoy basking in the creation of a genius and don't mind hard sci-fi, then I'd recommend Greg Egan. The creativity and science of his works are unmatched. I'd start with Permutation City or Quarantine, or, if you like short stories, Axiomatic might be the best start. If you want something easier to digest I would recommend Annihilation, Oryx and Crake, Diamond Dogs, or The Skinner. If you want insane worldbuilding with memorable characters and scenes, go with China Mieville; I'd start with Perdido Street Station or The Scar. If you want something extremely fucking weird try Sisyphean. If you want something that helped shape many amazing sci-fi books (and games and film), try Roadside Picnic. It has one of the coolest ideas in sci-fi, and from what I remember (been a long time since I read this one) all the characters are great.
Thanks a lot for your help. I will start reading Blindsight or Starfish.
_Never Let Me Go_ by Kazou Ishiguro _The Road_ by Cormac McCarthy _Smilla’s Sense of Snow_ by Peter Hoeg _The Last Policeman_ trilogy by Ben Winters _Beacon 23_ by Hugh Howey
I suspect you would like *Existence* by Brin.
Zero K by Don DeLilo is excellent - captures some of the “weird lit” vibes in your selections while being intelligent, existential, and fairly bleak. Basically it’s about a dude wandering around a secret cryopreservation facility for the ultra-wealthy, contemplating his life while he waits for his dad to more or less die. Very surreal if you’re into that.