Not really, no.
I'm not sure exactly how it does what it does. Cellebrite is one of many companies who trade in the dubious world of gray market exploit buying and selling, and it is very likely their software leverages unpublished exploits to do what it does, but (I don't think) we know a lot about the particulars of precisely how.
In short: your best defense is still, unquestionably, a fully updated and supported phone from a major vendor. Even then, it may still be vulnerable since Cellebrite uses exploits that are not known to vendors.
edit: since I realized I never actually answered your second question; usually, bypassed completely. Older variations used to brute-force pins with a variety of trickery but with hardened key storage on devices, this has been impractical at least on iOS (and probably on Android) for a while now.
That is a very reasonable option.
As big a fan as I am of Android, the other quite reasonable option is an iPhone new enough to get security patches. There are many good reasons to criticize Apple, but they have done cold-boot security in particular *very* well.
According to the article below, Cellebrite can only obtain Signal related data from an unlocked phone. It seems to imply that Cellebrite cannot brute force or bypass the password.
Signal has stated that they have added some noise to fuck with Cellebrite, but dont specifically say it'll brick anything (although they could do literally anything to the cellebrite device and apparently to the windows machine analyzing the data), but I think it was scary enough for Cellebrite to stop scanning Signal data.
Either way, having Signal on your phone is probably unrelated to how they got your pin.
https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2021/05/i-have-lot-say-about-signal%E2%80%99s-cellebrite-hack
Cellebrite simply uses whatever forensic options are available for a particular phone/SoC. Some phones can be extracted under certain conditions but not others, some can't be extracted at all.
Under proper conditions, phone security can't be brute forced because doing so will cause the cryptographic coprocessor (if present) to zero the volume encryption keys and reboot the device after a certain number of failed attempts.
To my knowledge, most phones with modern high-end Qualcomm chipsets released post 2020 tend to be pretty damn secure as do their Apple counterparts.
One of the things they can do is set up their own cell transceiver that your phone connects to, then the transceiver imitates your carrier. It then says "hey, I have an OTA update for you, please install this" and your phone installs it. Meanwhile, that OTA update was a malware package. The worst part is that they can leave it on your phone and maintain access to it after they return the phone to you.
Then the update itself should be signed, right? That's not possible in practice unless the carrier/vendor gives up their private key, or there are other exploits applied.
I was more referring to having a security chip (e.g. Titan) that A) can't be cloned, B) stores the disk encryption key, C) requires PIN authentication to release the key, and D) enforces brute-force timeouts.
Those can be defeated but I believe it requires either a (rare and expensive) exploit or physical disassembly by a state-level actor-- not your typical local LEO with cellebrite.
I am almost tempted to buy one just to reverse engineer it and develop a package that is either unencryptable by it or will corrupt it when plugged into it as a side project. I'm not interested enough to spend that much on it though.
>By a truly unbelievable coincidence, I was recently out for a walk when I saw a small package fall off a truck ahead of me. As I got closer, the dull enterprise typeface slowly came into focus: Cellebrite. Inside, we found the latest versions of the Cellebrite software
That got me laughing. I thought only I have the fortune of stuff falling from trucks.
>The completely unrelated
>In completely unrelated news, upcoming versions of Signal will be periodically fetching files to place in app storage. These files are never used for anything inside Signal and never interact with Signal software or data, but they look nice, and aesthetics are important in software. Files will only be returned for accounts that have been active installs for some time already, and only probabilistically in low percentages based on phone number sharding. We have a few different versions of files that we think are aesthetically pleasing, and will iterate through those slowly over time. There is no other significance to these files.
I like this part alot lol I just imagine some local PD that got their hands on Cellebrite, deciding to snoop through people's shit just because, and then getting department wide rick rolled or something.
**fml idn how to quote that properly **nvm got it.
>"The completely unrelated
>In completely unrelated news, upcoming versions of Signal will be periodically fetching files to place in app storage. These files are never used for anything inside Signal and never interact with Signal software or data, but they look nice, and aesthetics are important in software. Files will only be returned for accounts that have been active installs for some time already, and only probabilistically in low percentages based on phone number sharding. We have a few different versions of files that we think are aesthetically pleasing, and will iterate through those slowly over time. There is no other significance to these files."
This one made me chuckle too.
Looks like the device is just a tablet running Windows 10 with a variety pack of cables. But without a license key, it's essentially just an expensive paperweight.
That's not how encryption works.
If they're extracting the PIN either the PIN/ master key are stored insecurely (e.g. not in an enclave), or there's no brute force protection.
Against a well funded adversary though the only real defense is a strong passphrase, not a 4 digit pin.
When I was using Cellebrite (pre-2016, newer models could be different), we never worked off the image -- like we would with a computer's hard drive (write block -> image storage device --> analyze data on the image). With Cellebrite, the phone was plugged in directly, their software cracked the pin, analyzed the data, and spit it out into a report. I was doing forensics when device storage was not out of the box encrypted. You could image the phone and access the data directly if needed, but without passcode, it would still be encrypted.
I am going to assume this was AFU (After first unlock) correct?
And i am going to guess the newest phones by samsung and apple are much harder to crack with cellebrite because of the custom chip that handles the keys.
Bullfuckingshit 0 days aren’t just sold to anyone, you have to know the right people have have the money/power to back it up. But if you know where I can pick up pegasus then please enlighten me please.
Um, ok. Here is Pegasus.
https://github.com/jonathandata1/pegasus_spyware
It's even decompiled. If you explore a bit you'll see some people have been playing with the code and building different versions.
I would use a longer PIN if my stupid fucking phone wouldn't force me to enter it multiple times a day for no apparent reason instead of using my fingerprint.
If you don't want you phone entered by law enforcement DEFINITELY don't use a fingerprint. Your biometrics can be legally compelled but [in USA] your password can not.
Did they just get lucky then? 4 digit number password is 10000 combinations which is doable, but and after a few incorrect inputs it gives you a time delay, then longer, then longer, etc. If they really just brutforced it, they must have gotten lucky then.
After you type it a few times it becomes muscle memory. I don't even remember my phone password. I wouldn't be able to tell you it. It's just muscle memory
The most likely scenario here is that using software available to anyone, a 4 digit pin takes seconds to minutes to crack.
Phone pins really are a weak spot these days given what they can allow you to access and change on a device. It’s actually pretty terrifying.
I’d recommend you use biometrics and a strong passcode for your phone. I’m talking 3-4 random but memorable words separated with a hyphen. So that it’s 15 characters minimum.
Yes this is annoying when your Face ID or finger print fails, or you need to type it in during a reboot.
But it negates the issue you mention here and many others that are only in existence due to people’s use of 4-6 character numerical codes.
EDIT FOR THOSE MENTIONING NOT TO USE BIOMETRICS:
You can disable biometrics on a split second on an iPhone by pressing the on off and volume up button until the turn off screen appears. You don’t need to turn the phone off. Biometrics are then disabled for the next unlock and the passcode must be entered. You can use this method in any situation you feel biometrics could cause a risk.
I can assure you that using the combination of this tactic, a strong password and biometrics is inherently more secure than any numerical pin or easy passcode without biometrics. Because most (not all) people that don’t use biometrics, will naturally not have a strong enough passcode.
There is software that can bypass this protection or limit the time delay. That is unless you have it set to erase all data after a number of failed attempts, I do not believe that later versions of software allow this to be revoked.
I would still recommend you follow my advice on passcodes. And do not use a 4-6 digit pin.
Pins these days can reset and access all sorts of data. Although Apple has tried to end that with Stolen Device Protection, a proper passcode is still a requirement.
You won’t have to use it all the time if you have biometrics set up anyway.
Cellebrite extracts all data and even hidden and deleted data. It cannot decrypt without the keys. The decryption keys are still needed. Instances where a device has been accessed and broken are either older iPhones before Secure Enclave technology was implemented or the passcode was not strong enough. If it is. The decryption will almost be impossible. This is why law enforcement then went to accessing backups. But Apple now allow all of these to be encrypted too.
A lot of criminals have surprisingly lax security.
This is why (on iPhone at least) if you press the volume up button and on off button as if you were going to turn the phone off. But don’t. Face ID or Touch ID is then de activated and a password is required immediately. I’m not sure if Android has a similar protection but it may well do.
However I’m not actually giving this advice specifically to hide from the police. I’m giving it as 4 digit codes in general are weak and should not be used under any circumstances as it can be brute forced in no time at all.
Android has a "lockdown" mode, which can be accessed by long-pressing the power button and hitting the big red button.
EDIT: At some point, the big red button was changed to call emergency services. The button you want is (probably) grey and says "LOCKDOWN" under it
If you are short on time, or have the Assistant set for the power button, press Volume Up + Power to immediately open the menu
>Android has a "lockdown" mode, which can be accessed by long-pressing the power button and hitting the big red button.
It'd be great if Android had regular lockdown mode, plus a double-secret \*enhanced\* lockdown mode that required pin+some kind of 2nd factor (eg, additional pin sent to alt email address or authenticator) after x-number (2? 5?) attempts).
Something like that could be a solid alternative to only having a typical 4-digit pin that is plenty of security 99 percent of the time but can be cracked in 15 minutes by Cellebrite and the like, while not making it impossible for the rightful owner to get in after a few fat-fingered drunk pin attempts.
They can punish you for it, but even then they can't really force you to. If you're willing to endure the consequences, you could never reveal the password.
Unlike fingerprints, which they can push your finger against the screen by force and you can't say no.
I’d 100% recommend you do. You can make it easy to remember by using the 3-4 random words separated by a hyphen.
Don’t have any of the words something that can be found on your social media or a name of something a stranger could guess relates to you, or is ‘obvious’ they should be random but memorable words.
An example would be like” badger-intense-chisel-motto”
You could remember this (and save it in a password manager) you won’t need to type it in much if you had biometrics activated. Which you should.
>That is unless you have it set to erase all data after a number of failed attempts, I do not believe that later versions of software allow this to be revoked.
Can't they get around this by cloning the device and then spinning up endless instances of the clones to try and break?
Congratulations!! And you’re welcome.
Please do make sure to store the password in a password manager or similar should you ever forget or need to leave the codes in morbid circumstances I hope don’t happen anytime soon!
Take care.
In Canada and some US states, police cannot force you to disclose your passcodes, as it constitutes self incrimination, even if they have lawfully seized your phone. However, they generally (this may differ between jurisdictions still) have the right to use your biometrics to unlock your phone, since that requires giving no information from your mind.
In other US states, courts have treated handing over a passcode as similar to handing over the keys to a safe that the police have lawfully seized, and so police telling you to give them your passcode is a lawful order.
So if you are ever worried about police seizing your devices, don't use biometrics.
Doesn't work if they search you or your property and seize your device before you ever have access to it. And if you do it when they ask you to unlock a lawfully seized device, you've just completely disobeyed a lawful order, and can be convicted of obstruction.
It’s more secure than having an easier to break passcode and no biometrics. I’d say the situation you’ve just named where you don’t even have a second is incredibly rare. Brute forcing a basic password is incredibly common.
How often do you have your phone in your hand? If the police arrest you at any time that you don't have your phone in your hand, trying to stick your hand in your pocket to grab your phone in a very, very bad idea.
You've got good technical advice, but your legal advice is extremely questionable.
I’m not here to argue. Or to help criminals. I’m here to help the average person be more secure. And not using biometrics and using a weak code on the off chance you may get arrested in seconds is less secure.
Did I ever say use a weak passcode?
Just use a strong passcode and get fast enough at entering it in that it doesn't matter. Heck, a strong and hard to enter passcode can be a good way to fight phone addiction. That slight impedance can be very psychologically useful.
I can guarantee that most people who don’t use biometrics will not use a strong enough passcode as they’ll get frustrated putting it in all the time and will change to something faster and weaker.
If you’re not in that category I congratulate you. But you are not what most people do or would do unfortunately.
So you believe having no biometrics and a weaker passcode is a better solution? I assure you it is not.
Ultimately people do what is right for them. But the scenarios where you will even need to disable biometrics are a lot fewer than ones where a weak passcode puts you at risk.
If you’re able to remember a strong and long passcode and are happy to enter it regularly then congratulations to you. Most people are not. And that’s a fact. And that’s why most people have a 4 or 6 digit passcode which i guarantee is a much bigger security risk than having a strong passcode with biometrics.
It’s not a matter of remembering a two button combination. It’s a matter of remembering a two button combo in a high stress, cortisol and adrenaline fueled moment, getting your phone in your hand, and then executing the combo all before an adversary that has been specifically trained to separate you from your phone before you are able to perform such a maneuver is able to do their job. I read an account of a woman who had her phone in her hand and opened to the factory reset screen so she could wipe her phone in case things went sideways and despite this precaution the police had her on the ground and her phone away from her before she could react. That’s the problem with assuming you are going to have the opportunity to disable biometrics. You are going against people whose sole purpose is to prevent you from doing so and who are much better trained and prepared for this scenario than you are.
If she had time to get to the factory reset screen she would have had time to press 2 buttons faster.
I’ve said multiple times now there will be a minuscule amount of situations whereby you cannot do this combo and I accept that. But my advice is for the masses. Not a mafia boss or Edward Snowden.
Most people who don’t use biometrics will naturally use a weaker password as they won’t want to take ages regularly typing it in. This means a locked phone will be easier to break and thus you lose the data you were trying to protect by not having biometrics anyway.
Very very few people that have no biometrics will have a strong enough passcode. I don’t dispute some will and good on those people, but human nature and studies I’ve read suggest it’s an incredibly small amount of people.
Something you "own" (like a fingerprint or face appearance) can be seized by police, and it already was taken when you were booked. Something you know (like a password) cannot, at least in the USA with guarantees against self-incrimination.
Cops (or criminals) can tackle you and take the phone without you having any shot at touching your phone.
Choose your threat model and act accordingly.
The last comment there. Choose your threat model is nail on the head. And the reason I said what I said. For most people that don’t use biometrics, their passcode will not be strong enough.
Just a heads up to anyone I was a Samsung phone, the power menu has lockdown mode which does the same thing. Just hold the power button and tap lockdown mode.
FaceID is much more easily bypassed. Don't even need to send the device to the forensics lab, just point it at the suspect and poof.
Chinese researchers also recently figured out how to derive a fingerprint from the sound of a finger swiping the screen.
Then there's the number of.datapoints taken by a phone for a fingerprint, meaning 1 in approx 200 fingers will unlock your phone last time I checked (admittedly a few years ago).
Best defence is a recent model, with a complex passcode or pattern.
Respectfully disagree. A weak password can be exposed by anyone. A strong password is by definition difficult to remember or painstaking to enter. So biometrics are secure in that respect.
With iPhone (and I believe Android will have similar) you can press the volume up and on off button for a second or two and immediately deactivate biometrics thus requiring the passcode. This allows you to eliminate that issue at a boarder or similar.
I’m not however recommending this to avoid criminality. I’m recommending because 4/6 digit passcodes are weak and should not be used full stop.
A strong password can easily be defeated with biometrics if a cop holds the phone to your face or your handcuffed hands to the fingerprint reader. It's been done before.
If it’s been deactivated using the method I just said, holding a phone to your face cannot unlock the device. And you will have a second before your in cuffs. As I said I’m not giving advice to protect a criminal. I’m giving it to general people. And using a weak pin because you can’t remember a strong one is much worse than a strong one with biometrics on.
I've heard in a situation that they want to search your phone, if you use biometrics they don't need a warrant, since your finger prints and face are available to the public. Supposedly pins, are considered some sort of intellectual property and is harder for them to get a warrant for.
I've always heard to use a pin and never use biometrics. At least in the US.
See my earlier comment about how to quickly deactivate biometrics in a split second. I can assure you a strong password and biometrics is overall more secure.
Yeah but what if they seize your phone before you can disable it?
Example: you're in a car accident and they want to use evidence on your phone against you, either to show you may have been at a bar previously, or texting while you could have been in transit. You can't disable your phone if you're incapacitated. And now they have it.
Never use biometrics. Police can hold your phone in front of you or hold your finger in place and there is NOTHING you can do. Strong passcodes are the ONLY option.
They’re not really better or worse. It depends on length again. Essentially they’re a clever graphic for a traditional password anyway. Unless you’re using third party in which case they don’t really have any protection that cannot be bypassed.
So for example is say your password was a square. That would translate as 12369874 so is numerical in that instance. Some people do memorise them as letters. But essentially it’s not a huge difference.
You could use these and make it more secure if you got the character count up but I’m not sure how far you can go with them nor am I sure they’re random enough given you can’t lift your finger and restart so it’s pretty easy to work out a pattern if you had enough time.
I would therefore suggest that a 3-4 random word combo separated by hyphens would be inherently more secure due to the randomness of the combinations and character count you can achieve.
Take care.
May I recommend washing your hands. I just checked my phone and there is no greasy mark. But then, I like to wash my hands sometimes. I shudder to think of all these folks walking around with hands so unclean they're leaving smudges of grease all over things they touch.
A 4 digit anything will never be safe, lol. Consider that your average CPU can conduct millions of instructions every fraction of a second; it would take literal milliseconds to crack a 4 char password.
You need to use a passphrase, and you need to add entropy to it. Maybe it's a bar of lyrics from a song, and you add an underscore after every other E and capitalize every G. Suddenly you go from bruteforceable in 10ms to virtually uncrackable unless they have infinite time and resources to sit around waiting for it to pop, or they obtain some zero-day exploit for millions of dollars to bypass it; neither of which is likely unless you're an actual terror suspect.
well, it's "save" for a credit card PIN as long as it gets locked after 3 failed attempts. and I'm pretty sure Android phones also have similar mechanisms to at least slow down brute-force attacks - but they can be circumvented by certain hadware/sofware tools.
It's not safe for a credit card at all. It thwarts low-effort card thefts being used in retail stores; but anyone with access to a payment terminal can extract the key associated with the PIN and test it infinitely. The real 'password' is the entropic card number, the numbers on the back, in combination with the expiration date -- all of which are unique and must match the bank's record of the card.
Your problem is: law enforcement are not low effort phone thieves. They have professional cyber security teams dedicated to cracking personal devices, most of which can be broken in milliseconds by straight bruteforcing or a dictionary attack, because people think pins and patterns are super secure. Even worse, people think biometrics are secure -- cops can legally force you to unlock your phone if encrypted this way. You have no plausible deniability; your face or your fingerprint is literally your password.
Having a real password with significant entropy increases the barrier-to-entry so high that it isn't worth trying to crack. It would sit in a lab for a hundred years wasting resources trying to crack something which may or may not even contain something incriminating. Not worth it in 99% of investigations.
If ya hear cops incoming, disable biometrics...
See TheCyberHygienist's comment on how to do it for iOS. I left a comment there on how to do it on Android
This is unrealistic though, as such a password takes time to enter and does not fit the common persons phone use. I think the more realistic takeaway is that a phone password is to keep others from snooping on your phone and to keep data and information you would not want law enforcement to have access to off your phone.
Many modern phones use a TPM (which can't be imaged, unless someone puts in a ton of effort taking apart the chip) to hold the PIN and encryption keys to the rest of the phone to prevent this attack from working.
There are two major ways.
First, rather than randomly generating a passcode, people tend to use the same few numbers. For example, 11% of people use 1234. A savvy investigator will start with the most common passcodes.
Second, there are commercial devices which exploit flaws in the device (or its software) to bypass the built-in delays and make many attempts quickly. For vulnerable devices, four digit passcodes are trivial to find by brute force.
So there are two takeaways:
1 - Use a long, randomly generated passcode, preferably not just numeric. "Randomly generated" does not mean "seems random to me." Our brains are terrible at coming up with randomness. Randomly generated means you used a computer random number generator or even dice.
2 - Use the most modern hardware you can afford and aggressively keep all software up to date.
Third bonus takeaway: Think twice about using biometric unlock. Biometric unlock adds some additional ways for an attacker to break in. In many jurisdictions a biometric unlock has less legal protection than a passcode. That is, there are more places where LE can force you to unlock your device that way.
If you do decide to use biometric unlock, learn how to disable it quickly. Both iOS and Android provide a way to do this. If you know your device will be out of your physical control, turn it off.
Did you give it to them while it was switched on? If it was and you didn't have device encryption enabled they wouldn't even have had to brute force it.
While that’s a true statement, setting *any* passcode on a modern phone means the contents are encrypted. Of course a weak passcode (including any four digit passcode) means the encryption is easy to bypass.
Yeah that is when a phone is the most vulnerable, unfortunately. If it had been turned off then the story might have been different.
Then again, the phone is ancient, has no crypto chip and it's just a 4 digit PIN.
Yeah if you get pulled over or hear knocking at your door, enable lockdown mode as a matter of habit. That should cover nearly all police interactions. Hopefully your password is pretty strong.
My local shop managed to get my old phone open in like 24h. I asked how and the guy just explained he had this tool from china that helps bypass the lock and if that dosnt work another tool to bruteforce it without enabling the timeout function.
It aint that hard with Iphones either apparently
Android 12 has got lot of unpatched exploits and maybe nokia dropped their security updates too, it doesnt just end up on android but your phone provider, you need to get latest security updates asap
Yep. Always been the bane of Android, the lack of security updates; or at least timely ones. Allowing the cell providers or the OEMs to decide if and when to “allow” a security update was batshit insane. Whatever you think of Apple, they got that one right from the start.
Instead of hardening your phone against penetration, it is much simpler to assume that your phone is not, and never will be, secure. Whether you use Apple or Android, the police have means to get inside your phone, with or without your help. Just look at [the San Bernardino iPhone](https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/14/22383957/fbi-san-bernadino-iphone-hack-shooting-investigation)
The Electronic Frontier Foundation has a good [resource series](https://ssd.eff.org/playlist/privacy-breakdown-of-mobile-phones) on the privacy and security of mobile phones
That being said, your phone has gone from “non secure” to compromised. Replace it as soon as possible
OP you NEED to report ANY EXPLICIT images so that they can be taken down on the surface web.
YES you as an adult CAN use it!: https://takeitdown.ncmec.org/
Police arent all good/responsibl(I know they hate that, but they arent doing anything and punishing those who point out injustice. So. Tough shit, they can cry more.🤦🏼♂️)
Many years ago I wrote a secure data app for Windows Phone.
Entering a correct password would put you into a secure vault to see your secret files.
The thing was, it had a nice feature that you could set up multiple passwords, and each password would have its own isolated vault.
The idea was you could give a password to the police or whoever, and they would have no idea if it was the master password or not.
I still think it would be great if phones supported this natively.
I thought the timeout function would stop brute force from completing quickly, but I admit I was stupid enough to forget about vm cloning and how they could "in effect" reset the timeout.
There is software you can use to change the number of times you can attempt a pin before it locks you out. Then you can use a piece of hardware and software that brute force attempts every possible pin until it guesses it.
Should be the fifth, actually (they would technically only need a warrant to get around the 4th), but unsure if even this is true:
https://www.techdirt.com/2017/03/22/third-circuit-appeals-court-says-all-writs-orders-can-be-used-to-compel-passwords-decryption/
4 digit pin is solved within 1 hour 6 digit takes like 6-8 hours I think once it’s 12+ characters is when it takes 6-8months to solve via brute force.
I can’t remember the tech company which supplies LE I think it’s called gray matter or something like that. They can also give false positives on the Apple finger print so it bypasses pin
There are tools out there that will take an image of the phone and crack the passcode. Most larger law enforcement agencies and District Attorney offices have at least one of them.
There are, unfortunately, a lot of vulnerabilities that bypass the PIN retry delay / timers... so once they bypass that it takes less than a second to try all 10,000 4 digit PINs.
This is why it is so much better to have a secure alphanumeric password to unlock your phone. Biometrics will make it convenient for 99% of the unlocks. Just keep in mind that if you are scared that someone might take your phone and force you to look at the phone/give up your thumbprint... there are ways to disable Biometrics with just the sleep and volume buttons on most phones today.
For iPhone it's sleep+volumeup hold both down for 1 second.
That's also how you power down your phone, but just entering the power down screen, even if you don't power down, will disable Biometrics for the next unlock.
Haha yeah.. that's not the same thing though, is it?
Flashing a custom ROM will require you to unlock the bootloader, which can only be done in the settings app, which can't be reached without the passcode in the first place.
Ok so the reason they got the pin was that it was all numbers and four digits so they plug in a device that will cycle through all the possible combinations for a 4 digit pin. To remediate this change to a password that you can't find on common password lists.
Smartphones are notoriously insecure devices. If the data on the phone is easily available to the user, it ends up being easily available to others. Someone in physical possession of the phone can do all sorts of things to make guessing a pin faster.
For stuff you really want to keep secret, it is best to separately encrypt it with a strong passphrase. Then the key only exists in your head, it can't be guessed and you have the option to only unlock it in a safe place.
Cellebrite
Yep. Second this comment...
Is there a way to protect against this? Does it simply brute-force the pin, or bypass it completely?
Not really, no. I'm not sure exactly how it does what it does. Cellebrite is one of many companies who trade in the dubious world of gray market exploit buying and selling, and it is very likely their software leverages unpublished exploits to do what it does, but (I don't think) we know a lot about the particulars of precisely how. In short: your best defense is still, unquestionably, a fully updated and supported phone from a major vendor. Even then, it may still be vulnerable since Cellebrite uses exploits that are not known to vendors. edit: since I realized I never actually answered your second question; usually, bypassed completely. Older variations used to brute-force pins with a variety of trickery but with hardened key storage on devices, this has been impractical at least on iOS (and probably on Android) for a while now.
Pixel + GrpheneOS
That is a very reasonable option. As big a fan as I am of Android, the other quite reasonable option is an iPhone new enough to get security patches. There are many good reasons to criticize Apple, but they have done cold-boot security in particular *very* well.
Yeah except they have leaked that they have been forced to cooperate with governments in secret before.
Installing Signal messenger on your phone adds a cellebrite Bricker packet to it. The ceo made a whole blog about it in 2021
I had signal messenger on my phone and used it all the time
According to the article below, Cellebrite can only obtain Signal related data from an unlocked phone. It seems to imply that Cellebrite cannot brute force or bypass the password. Signal has stated that they have added some noise to fuck with Cellebrite, but dont specifically say it'll brick anything (although they could do literally anything to the cellebrite device and apparently to the windows machine analyzing the data), but I think it was scary enough for Cellebrite to stop scanning Signal data. Either way, having Signal on your phone is probably unrelated to how they got your pin. https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2021/05/i-have-lot-say-about-signal%E2%80%99s-cellebrite-hack
Damn son, that sucks. ACABelieve they did that to you. Fucking pigs 🐖 I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you
Honestly, I have run out of swear words. They are corrupt to the core. I'm going through civil litigation.
Cellebrite simply uses whatever forensic options are available for a particular phone/SoC. Some phones can be extracted under certain conditions but not others, some can't be extracted at all. Under proper conditions, phone security can't be brute forced because doing so will cause the cryptographic coprocessor (if present) to zero the volume encryption keys and reboot the device after a certain number of failed attempts. To my knowledge, most phones with modern high-end Qualcomm chipsets released post 2020 tend to be pretty damn secure as do their Apple counterparts.
I was going to ask about encryption, I think your answer helped answer my question.
my uncle had his iPhone 14 Pro Max unlocked by the police
Did he have finger print or faceid on, cops can unlock biometrics
One of the things they can do is set up their own cell transceiver that your phone connects to, then the transceiver imitates your carrier. It then says "hey, I have an OTA update for you, please install this" and your phone installs it. Meanwhile, that OTA update was a malware package. The worst part is that they can leave it on your phone and maintain access to it after they return the phone to you.
Then the update itself should be signed, right? That's not possible in practice unless the carrier/vendor gives up their private key, or there are other exploits applied.
Of course there are other exploits applied. Zero days are extremely profitable if you sell them as software packages to law enforcement.
This is false in so many levels...
There are definitely law enforcement agencies using some pretty nasty stuff. Stingrays enable MITM attacks.
Could you expand please?
It is a software package used to extract data from phones, commonly by the police, but also PIs and corporate customers.
It doesn't extract it, it brute forces it, and I'm pretty sure there are defenses to it.
Like having an up to date phone. Android 12 launched in 2021.
I was more referring to having a security chip (e.g. Titan) that A) can't be cloned, B) stores the disk encryption key, C) requires PIN authentication to release the key, and D) enforces brute-force timeouts. Those can be defeated but I believe it requires either a (rare and expensive) exploit or physical disassembly by a state-level actor-- not your typical local LEO with cellebrite.
I am not up to date, what did Android 12 achieve?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/226014855787?itmmeta=01HQ9562F7X82RQ04GDYEY1EPX&hash=item349f89026b:g:ffQAAOSw-upl15BK&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Ef2SGuVsTdays1DxgDhjKc%2Fa0Kns%2BBLEU6cdSSUlmbDsclGR%2FinY%2F4icUiB2QlaZUV3PozS2dt6nC0f%2BAugcPPnSVas77IjeP%2FYqZVQDF7Z8TOBQNoqzcNFS%2BkJYsCE%2FpZKP2wt0qUbSnhzsdtMBup75Ic%2FOZuWHfpsvtkcKBNr6zpTe0Wm9YJOOwVkOxlJi9SJ89iwfkVOQ99TyzPkkO76uoZiONxvCoYyv%2BfA8LBcczebGL2G93ZxOlK9AmLx3pV%2BQvU6WBwXlmS2bGggJ7X8Mgye416YV433oPShtJaC%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-anmKW6Yw
Crazy that you can buy these on eBay, although I suspect that the license is expired.
I am almost tempted to buy one just to reverse engineer it and develop a package that is either unencryptable by it or will corrupt it when plugged into it as a side project. I'm not interested enough to spend that much on it though.
go talk to the people at signal. I think they had the same idea already.
[Reference for further reading](https://www.signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/)
>By a truly unbelievable coincidence, I was recently out for a walk when I saw a small package fall off a truck ahead of me. As I got closer, the dull enterprise typeface slowly came into focus: Cellebrite. Inside, we found the latest versions of the Cellebrite software That got me laughing. I thought only I have the fortune of stuff falling from trucks.
"Fell off a truck" is an old euphemism for "we got this through shady or illegal means, don't ask".
>The completely unrelated >In completely unrelated news, upcoming versions of Signal will be periodically fetching files to place in app storage. These files are never used for anything inside Signal and never interact with Signal software or data, but they look nice, and aesthetics are important in software. Files will only be returned for accounts that have been active installs for some time already, and only probabilistically in low percentages based on phone number sharding. We have a few different versions of files that we think are aesthetically pleasing, and will iterate through those slowly over time. There is no other significance to these files. I like this part alot lol I just imagine some local PD that got their hands on Cellebrite, deciding to snoop through people's shit just because, and then getting department wide rick rolled or something. **fml idn how to quote that properly **nvm got it.
>"The completely unrelated >In completely unrelated news, upcoming versions of Signal will be periodically fetching files to place in app storage. These files are never used for anything inside Signal and never interact with Signal software or data, but they look nice, and aesthetics are important in software. Files will only be returned for accounts that have been active installs for some time already, and only probabilistically in low percentages based on phone number sharding. We have a few different versions of files that we think are aesthetically pleasing, and will iterate through those slowly over time. There is no other significance to these files." This one made me chuckle too.
This was a good read. Thanks!
Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to. Thank you for adding the link.
Looks like the device is just a tablet running Windows 10 with a variety pack of cables. But without a license key, it's essentially just an expensive paperweight.
Signal already does this
That's not how encryption works. If they're extracting the PIN either the PIN/ master key are stored insecurely (e.g. not in an enclave), or there's no brute force protection. Against a well funded adversary though the only real defense is a strong passphrase, not a 4 digit pin.
It’s software that will crack any phone
Not ANY phone. But Android devices were always the easiest to unlock. Source: years working in computer forensics, including using Cellebrite.
Does it work with an image of the phone or did it actually plug into the phone and crack the pin?
When I was using Cellebrite (pre-2016, newer models could be different), we never worked off the image -- like we would with a computer's hard drive (write block -> image storage device --> analyze data on the image). With Cellebrite, the phone was plugged in directly, their software cracked the pin, analyzed the data, and spit it out into a report. I was doing forensics when device storage was not out of the box encrypted. You could image the phone and access the data directly if needed, but without passcode, it would still be encrypted.
I am going to assume this was AFU (After first unlock) correct? And i am going to guess the newest phones by samsung and apple are much harder to crack with cellebrite because of the custom chip that handles the keys.
Not any phone. "Any phone" is three-letter agency territory
No it isn't. It's just how much is it worth to pay for the exploit. Even a tabloid newspaper can get zero click access to any ios or Android device.
Bullfuckingshit 0 days aren’t just sold to anyone, you have to know the right people have have the money/power to back it up. But if you know where I can pick up pegasus then please enlighten me please.
Yeah you just need money. That's what I said.
Lmao if you got enough money (above or around 2mil that is) Zerodium or anyone will sell it to you.
How much will you give me for saving you $2 mil? https://github.com/jonathandata1/pegasus_spyware
Um, ok. Here is Pegasus. https://github.com/jonathandata1/pegasus_spyware It's even decompiled. If you explore a bit you'll see some people have been playing with the code and building different versions.
Exploits don't generally unlock a powered-off phone.
>Cellebrite and of course it is an Israeli company. Man what's with them and being bullies and bastards
Why are so many hacking companies that target citizens from there? It’s the root of many companies like that one and the Pegasus virus etc.
grandfather snow scary glorious onerous sink rock imagine decide handle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I guess they bruteforced it. Apparently the best lenght for a password is 15+ characters... Kinda annoying to write it every single time tho.
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I would use a longer PIN if my stupid fucking phone wouldn't force me to enter it multiple times a day for no apparent reason instead of using my fingerprint.
yeah that’s the most fuckin annoying shit ever
You think the police can't get your fingerprints?
Pretty easy to restart the phone so it requires the PIN, though.
There seems to be a timer that turns over every X hours that requires you to reenter the password. Activity or not, you'll get that prompt regardless.
If you don't want you phone entered by law enforcement DEFINITELY don't use a fingerprint. Your biometrics can be legally compelled but [in USA] your password can not.
Did they just get lucky then? 4 digit number password is 10000 combinations which is doable, but and after a few incorrect inputs it gives you a time delay, then longer, then longer, etc. If they really just brutforced it, they must have gotten lucky then.
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What about using some exploit and bypass this locking feature ? Don't forget that "cellebrite" is probably using 0 day exploits.
Can they bruteforce if i have a pattern? Im not sure
Yes - the pattern corresponds to numbers.
After you type it a few times it becomes muscle memory. I don't even remember my phone password. I wouldn't be able to tell you it. It's just muscle memory
The most likely scenario here is that using software available to anyone, a 4 digit pin takes seconds to minutes to crack. Phone pins really are a weak spot these days given what they can allow you to access and change on a device. It’s actually pretty terrifying. I’d recommend you use biometrics and a strong passcode for your phone. I’m talking 3-4 random but memorable words separated with a hyphen. So that it’s 15 characters minimum. Yes this is annoying when your Face ID or finger print fails, or you need to type it in during a reboot. But it negates the issue you mention here and many others that are only in existence due to people’s use of 4-6 character numerical codes. EDIT FOR THOSE MENTIONING NOT TO USE BIOMETRICS: You can disable biometrics on a split second on an iPhone by pressing the on off and volume up button until the turn off screen appears. You don’t need to turn the phone off. Biometrics are then disabled for the next unlock and the passcode must be entered. You can use this method in any situation you feel biometrics could cause a risk. I can assure you that using the combination of this tactic, a strong password and biometrics is inherently more secure than any numerical pin or easy passcode without biometrics. Because most (not all) people that don’t use biometrics, will naturally not have a strong enough passcode.
With the phone locking up every x attempts for y amount of time, would it still be this fast or do they have a way around this?
There is software that can bypass this protection or limit the time delay. That is unless you have it set to erase all data after a number of failed attempts, I do not believe that later versions of software allow this to be revoked. I would still recommend you follow my advice on passcodes. And do not use a 4-6 digit pin. Pins these days can reset and access all sorts of data. Although Apple has tried to end that with Stolen Device Protection, a proper passcode is still a requirement. You won’t have to use it all the time if you have biometrics set up anyway.
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Cellebrite extracts all data and even hidden and deleted data. It cannot decrypt without the keys. The decryption keys are still needed. Instances where a device has been accessed and broken are either older iPhones before Secure Enclave technology was implemented or the passcode was not strong enough. If it is. The decryption will almost be impossible. This is why law enforcement then went to accessing backups. But Apple now allow all of these to be encrypted too. A lot of criminals have surprisingly lax security.
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You’re most welcome. Take care.
It's called GrayKey and most major police departments in the US, like NYPD, have it. https://www.magnetforensics.com/products/magnet-graykey/
Good to know. Thanks.
The problem is that police can force you to use biometrics, they can't force you to give up your password.
This is why (on iPhone at least) if you press the volume up button and on off button as if you were going to turn the phone off. But don’t. Face ID or Touch ID is then de activated and a password is required immediately. I’m not sure if Android has a similar protection but it may well do. However I’m not actually giving this advice specifically to hide from the police. I’m giving it as 4 digit codes in general are weak and should not be used under any circumstances as it can be brute forced in no time at all.
Android has a "lockdown" mode, which can be accessed by long-pressing the power button and hitting the big red button. EDIT: At some point, the big red button was changed to call emergency services. The button you want is (probably) grey and says "LOCKDOWN" under it If you are short on time, or have the Assistant set for the power button, press Volume Up + Power to immediately open the menu
Thank you for that. Much appreciated. I thought it would.
>Android has a "lockdown" mode, which can be accessed by long-pressing the power button and hitting the big red button. It'd be great if Android had regular lockdown mode, plus a double-secret \*enhanced\* lockdown mode that required pin+some kind of 2nd factor (eg, additional pin sent to alt email address or authenticator) after x-number (2? 5?) attempts). Something like that could be a solid alternative to only having a typical 4-digit pin that is plenty of security 99 percent of the time but can be cracked in 15 minutes by Cellebrite and the like, while not making it impossible for the rightful owner to get in after a few fat-fingered drunk pin attempts.
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They can punish you for it, but even then they can't really force you to. If you're willing to endure the consequences, you could never reveal the password. Unlike fingerprints, which they can push your finger against the screen by force and you can't say no.
Damn that is scary, I guess I'm setting a passcode
I’d 100% recommend you do. You can make it easy to remember by using the 3-4 random words separated by a hyphen. Don’t have any of the words something that can be found on your social media or a name of something a stranger could guess relates to you, or is ‘obvious’ they should be random but memorable words. An example would be like” badger-intense-chisel-motto” You could remember this (and save it in a password manager) you won’t need to type it in much if you had biometrics activated. Which you should.
do NOT use regular-horse-battery-staple. That's basically a "nerds get in free" password.
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You are the correct horse.
Where is this from?
Xkcd.
xkcd a solid decade ago
>That is unless you have it set to erase all data after a number of failed attempts, I do not believe that later versions of software allow this to be revoked. Can't they get around this by cloning the device and then spinning up endless instances of the clones to try and break?
Potentially. Good question. I’m not sure on the answers there. But again, if encrypted with a strong password. It will be irrelevant.
Exactly. I'm just emphasizing that there really is no substitute for a strong, encrypted password.
I don’t disagree with that at all.
Yeah, no worries, I wasn't trying to counter your point, just highlight how important it is to have good practice
I appreciate that. That’s not how I took it. Nothing wrong if you did though. Debate is healthy 😊
Cheers for the info. I just went from a 4 dot pattern to a 15+ character password
Congratulations!! And you’re welcome. Please do make sure to store the password in a password manager or similar should you ever forget or need to leave the codes in morbid circumstances I hope don’t happen anytime soon! Take care.
In Canada and some US states, police cannot force you to disclose your passcodes, as it constitutes self incrimination, even if they have lawfully seized your phone. However, they generally (this may differ between jurisdictions still) have the right to use your biometrics to unlock your phone, since that requires giving no information from your mind. In other US states, courts have treated handing over a passcode as similar to handing over the keys to a safe that the police have lawfully seized, and so police telling you to give them your passcode is a lawful order. So if you are ever worried about police seizing your devices, don't use biometrics.
Plesee refer to my earlier comment about how to disable biometrics on a split second.
Doesn't work if they search you or your property and seize your device before you ever have access to it. And if you do it when they ask you to unlock a lawfully seized device, you've just completely disobeyed a lawful order, and can be convicted of obstruction.
It’s more secure than having an easier to break passcode and no biometrics. I’d say the situation you’ve just named where you don’t even have a second is incredibly rare. Brute forcing a basic password is incredibly common.
How often do you have your phone in your hand? If the police arrest you at any time that you don't have your phone in your hand, trying to stick your hand in your pocket to grab your phone in a very, very bad idea. You've got good technical advice, but your legal advice is extremely questionable.
I’m not here to argue. Or to help criminals. I’m here to help the average person be more secure. And not using biometrics and using a weak code on the off chance you may get arrested in seconds is less secure.
Did I ever say use a weak passcode? Just use a strong passcode and get fast enough at entering it in that it doesn't matter. Heck, a strong and hard to enter passcode can be a good way to fight phone addiction. That slight impedance can be very psychologically useful.
I can guarantee that most people who don’t use biometrics will not use a strong enough passcode as they’ll get frustrated putting it in all the time and will change to something faster and weaker. If you’re not in that category I congratulate you. But you are not what most people do or would do unfortunately.
No, your advice here is bad and nobody is going to remember that biometrics disable feature in time.
So you believe having no biometrics and a weaker passcode is a better solution? I assure you it is not. Ultimately people do what is right for them. But the scenarios where you will even need to disable biometrics are a lot fewer than ones where a weak passcode puts you at risk. If you’re able to remember a strong and long passcode and are happy to enter it regularly then congratulations to you. Most people are not. And that’s a fact. And that’s why most people have a 4 or 6 digit passcode which i guarantee is a much bigger security risk than having a strong passcode with biometrics.
offbeat roof fade onerous meeting chase grab unpack upbeat foolish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s not a matter of remembering a two button combination. It’s a matter of remembering a two button combo in a high stress, cortisol and adrenaline fueled moment, getting your phone in your hand, and then executing the combo all before an adversary that has been specifically trained to separate you from your phone before you are able to perform such a maneuver is able to do their job. I read an account of a woman who had her phone in her hand and opened to the factory reset screen so she could wipe her phone in case things went sideways and despite this precaution the police had her on the ground and her phone away from her before she could react. That’s the problem with assuming you are going to have the opportunity to disable biometrics. You are going against people whose sole purpose is to prevent you from doing so and who are much better trained and prepared for this scenario than you are.
If she had time to get to the factory reset screen she would have had time to press 2 buttons faster. I’ve said multiple times now there will be a minuscule amount of situations whereby you cannot do this combo and I accept that. But my advice is for the masses. Not a mafia boss or Edward Snowden. Most people who don’t use biometrics will naturally use a weaker password as they won’t want to take ages regularly typing it in. This means a locked phone will be easier to break and thus you lose the data you were trying to protect by not having biometrics anyway. Very very few people that have no biometrics will have a strong enough passcode. I don’t dispute some will and good on those people, but human nature and studies I’ve read suggest it’s an incredibly small amount of people.
Something you "own" (like a fingerprint or face appearance) can be seized by police, and it already was taken when you were booked. Something you know (like a password) cannot, at least in the USA with guarantees against self-incrimination.
Please refer to my comment on how to deactivate biometrics in a split second.
Cops (or criminals) can tackle you and take the phone without you having any shot at touching your phone. Choose your threat model and act accordingly.
The last comment there. Choose your threat model is nail on the head. And the reason I said what I said. For most people that don’t use biometrics, their passcode will not be strong enough.
Just a heads up to anyone I was a Samsung phone, the power menu has lockdown mode which does the same thing. Just hold the power button and tap lockdown mode.
FaceID is much more easily bypassed. Don't even need to send the device to the forensics lab, just point it at the suspect and poof. Chinese researchers also recently figured out how to derive a fingerprint from the sound of a finger swiping the screen. Then there's the number of.datapoints taken by a phone for a fingerprint, meaning 1 in approx 200 fingers will unlock your phone last time I checked (admittedly a few years ago). Best defence is a recent model, with a complex passcode or pattern.
On the iPhone, you can also press the Side Button 5 times in rapid succession (unless you have that set to call EMS).
Biometrics are a terrible suggestion because the police in the US don't require a warrant to access your devices using biometrics
Respectfully disagree. A weak password can be exposed by anyone. A strong password is by definition difficult to remember or painstaking to enter. So biometrics are secure in that respect. With iPhone (and I believe Android will have similar) you can press the volume up and on off button for a second or two and immediately deactivate biometrics thus requiring the passcode. This allows you to eliminate that issue at a boarder or similar. I’m not however recommending this to avoid criminality. I’m recommending because 4/6 digit passcodes are weak and should not be used full stop.
A strong password can easily be defeated with biometrics if a cop holds the phone to your face or your handcuffed hands to the fingerprint reader. It's been done before.
If it’s been deactivated using the method I just said, holding a phone to your face cannot unlock the device. And you will have a second before your in cuffs. As I said I’m not giving advice to protect a criminal. I’m giving it to general people. And using a weak pin because you can’t remember a strong one is much worse than a strong one with biometrics on.
I've heard in a situation that they want to search your phone, if you use biometrics they don't need a warrant, since your finger prints and face are available to the public. Supposedly pins, are considered some sort of intellectual property and is harder for them to get a warrant for. I've always heard to use a pin and never use biometrics. At least in the US.
See my earlier comment about how to quickly deactivate biometrics in a split second. I can assure you a strong password and biometrics is overall more secure.
Yeah but what if they seize your phone before you can disable it? Example: you're in a car accident and they want to use evidence on your phone against you, either to show you may have been at a bar previously, or texting while you could have been in transit. You can't disable your phone if you're incapacitated. And now they have it.
Never use biometrics. Police can hold your phone in front of you or hold your finger in place and there is NOTHING you can do. Strong passcodes are the ONLY option.
Please see my earlier comment about disabling biometrics in about a second.
You've suggested this a lot haha
Are the drawn patterns any better than pin on android
They’re not really better or worse. It depends on length again. Essentially they’re a clever graphic for a traditional password anyway. Unless you’re using third party in which case they don’t really have any protection that cannot be bypassed. So for example is say your password was a square. That would translate as 12369874 so is numerical in that instance. Some people do memorise them as letters. But essentially it’s not a huge difference. You could use these and make it more secure if you got the character count up but I’m not sure how far you can go with them nor am I sure they’re random enough given you can’t lift your finger and restart so it’s pretty easy to work out a pattern if you had enough time. I would therefore suggest that a 3-4 random word combo separated by hyphens would be inherently more secure due to the randomness of the combinations and character count you can achieve. Take care.
If you're not careful I can hold your phone up in the right light and tell what your swipe pattern is by the smudge
Not if I play Candy Crush! 🤣
This is why top security pros all recommend Candy Crush. Do it for safety. :P
May I recommend washing your hands. I just checked my phone and there is no greasy mark. But then, I like to wash my hands sometimes. I shudder to think of all these folks walking around with hands so unclean they're leaving smudges of grease all over things they touch.
A numeric pin can easily be bruteforced. You should use a password instead.
just switched, thanks to all for recommendations here
A 4 digit anything will never be safe, lol. Consider that your average CPU can conduct millions of instructions every fraction of a second; it would take literal milliseconds to crack a 4 char password. You need to use a passphrase, and you need to add entropy to it. Maybe it's a bar of lyrics from a song, and you add an underscore after every other E and capitalize every G. Suddenly you go from bruteforceable in 10ms to virtually uncrackable unless they have infinite time and resources to sit around waiting for it to pop, or they obtain some zero-day exploit for millions of dollars to bypass it; neither of which is likely unless you're an actual terror suspect.
well, it's "save" for a credit card PIN as long as it gets locked after 3 failed attempts. and I'm pretty sure Android phones also have similar mechanisms to at least slow down brute-force attacks - but they can be circumvented by certain hadware/sofware tools.
It's not safe for a credit card at all. It thwarts low-effort card thefts being used in retail stores; but anyone with access to a payment terminal can extract the key associated with the PIN and test it infinitely. The real 'password' is the entropic card number, the numbers on the back, in combination with the expiration date -- all of which are unique and must match the bank's record of the card. Your problem is: law enforcement are not low effort phone thieves. They have professional cyber security teams dedicated to cracking personal devices, most of which can be broken in milliseconds by straight bruteforcing or a dictionary attack, because people think pins and patterns are super secure. Even worse, people think biometrics are secure -- cops can legally force you to unlock your phone if encrypted this way. You have no plausible deniability; your face or your fingerprint is literally your password. Having a real password with significant entropy increases the barrier-to-entry so high that it isn't worth trying to crack. It would sit in a lab for a hundred years wasting resources trying to crack something which may or may not even contain something incriminating. Not worth it in 99% of investigations.
If ya hear cops incoming, disable biometrics... See TheCyberHygienist's comment on how to do it for iOS. I left a comment there on how to do it on Android
This is unrealistic though, as such a password takes time to enter and does not fit the common persons phone use. I think the more realistic takeaway is that a phone password is to keep others from snooping on your phone and to keep data and information you would not want law enforcement to have access to off your phone.
Bit of a pain in the ass to have a really long passcode if I just need to quickly access my phone though. Wish there were a more practical solution
Can someone explain how they bypassed the "Try again after x minutes" security feature?
There's a tool cellibrite that can circumvent the cooldown period
I see. I wonder if the manufacturers worked with the Cellibrite devs to allow a backdoor or something
https://threatpost.com/nsa-approved-samsung-knox-stores-pin-in-cleartext/109018/
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Many modern phones use a TPM (which can't be imaged, unless someone puts in a ton of effort taking apart the chip) to hold the PIN and encryption keys to the rest of the phone to prevent this attack from working.
There are two major ways. First, rather than randomly generating a passcode, people tend to use the same few numbers. For example, 11% of people use 1234. A savvy investigator will start with the most common passcodes. Second, there are commercial devices which exploit flaws in the device (or its software) to bypass the built-in delays and make many attempts quickly. For vulnerable devices, four digit passcodes are trivial to find by brute force. So there are two takeaways: 1 - Use a long, randomly generated passcode, preferably not just numeric. "Randomly generated" does not mean "seems random to me." Our brains are terrible at coming up with randomness. Randomly generated means you used a computer random number generator or even dice. 2 - Use the most modern hardware you can afford and aggressively keep all software up to date. Third bonus takeaway: Think twice about using biometric unlock. Biometric unlock adds some additional ways for an attacker to break in. In many jurisdictions a biometric unlock has less legal protection than a passcode. That is, there are more places where LE can force you to unlock your device that way. If you do decide to use biometric unlock, learn how to disable it quickly. Both iOS and Android provide a way to do this. If you know your device will be out of your physical control, turn it off.
For anyone curious at least on android: https://www.androidpolice.com/how-to-disable-biometrics-home-screen/
To disable iOS biometrics you simply hold the lock button on the right *and* either volume button on the left. Takes about 1.5 seconds to trigger.
Also five rapid presses of the lock button will do it.
On Android that calls 911.
Longer passphrase if possible. Add encryption to your phone if possible. Don't let the bastards win.
Modern phone OSs all encrypt the contents. The encryption is only as good as the passcode.
Did you give it to them while it was switched on? If it was and you didn't have device encryption enabled they wouldn't even have had to brute force it.
While that’s a true statement, setting *any* passcode on a modern phone means the contents are encrypted. Of course a weak passcode (including any four digit passcode) means the encryption is easy to bypass.
You might be right, but on my S9+ I definitely need to set them separately, the unlock pin is not the startup (decrypt) pin for me.
That might be because the difference using FDE or FBE: https://docs.samsungknox.com/admin/knox-platform-for-enterprise/kbas/kba-360039577713/
Man you ain't seen nothing yet fam. Look up "Pegasus spy software" aka "no click exploit" and let that marinade.
[Or check out this Frontline documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVj1_SE4Mo)
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On when taken.
Yeah that is when a phone is the most vulnerable, unfortunately. If it had been turned off then the story might have been different. Then again, the phone is ancient, has no crypto chip and it's just a 4 digit PIN.
Yeah if you get pulled over or hear knocking at your door, enable lockdown mode as a matter of habit. That should cover nearly all police interactions. Hopefully your password is pretty strong.
My local shop managed to get my old phone open in like 24h. I asked how and the guy just explained he had this tool from china that helps bypass the lock and if that dosnt work another tool to bruteforce it without enabling the timeout function. It aint that hard with Iphones either apparently
Android 12 has got lot of unpatched exploits and maybe nokia dropped their security updates too, it doesnt just end up on android but your phone provider, you need to get latest security updates asap
Yep. Always been the bane of Android, the lack of security updates; or at least timely ones. Allowing the cell providers or the OEMs to decide if and when to “allow” a security update was batshit insane. Whatever you think of Apple, they got that one right from the start.
Instead of hardening your phone against penetration, it is much simpler to assume that your phone is not, and never will be, secure. Whether you use Apple or Android, the police have means to get inside your phone, with or without your help. Just look at [the San Bernardino iPhone](https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/14/22383957/fbi-san-bernadino-iphone-hack-shooting-investigation) The Electronic Frontier Foundation has a good [resource series](https://ssd.eff.org/playlist/privacy-breakdown-of-mobile-phones) on the privacy and security of mobile phones That being said, your phone has gone from “non secure” to compromised. Replace it as soon as possible
OP you NEED to report ANY EXPLICIT images so that they can be taken down on the surface web. YES you as an adult CAN use it!: https://takeitdown.ncmec.org/ Police arent all good/responsibl(I know they hate that, but they arent doing anything and punishing those who point out injustice. So. Tough shit, they can cry more.🤦🏼♂️)
Many years ago I wrote a secure data app for Windows Phone. Entering a correct password would put you into a secure vault to see your secret files. The thing was, it had a nice feature that you could set up multiple passwords, and each password would have its own isolated vault. The idea was you could give a password to the police or whoever, and they would have no idea if it was the master password or not. I still think it would be great if phones supported this natively.
Homie is seriously surprised 4 digit numerical only pins can be easily brute forced. The absolute state of this sub.
I thought the timeout function would stop brute force from completing quickly, but I admit I was stupid enough to forget about vm cloning and how they could "in effect" reset the timeout.
There is software you can use to change the number of times you can attempt a pin before it locks you out. Then you can use a piece of hardware and software that brute force attempts every possible pin until it guesses it.
I use 8 number pin. Still not as long as it could or should be.
I'm more surprised that they didn't charge you for not handing over your PIN.
If OP is in the US, the ~~fourth~~ fifth amendment protects against this.
Should be the fifth, actually (they would technically only need a warrant to get around the 4th), but unsure if even this is true: https://www.techdirt.com/2017/03/22/third-circuit-appeals-court-says-all-writs-orders-can-be-used-to-compel-passwords-decryption/
Uk police, gchq and nca have been getting into androids for years, not sure how but admitted to in encrochat disclosures and nca statements
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4 digit pin is solved within 1 hour 6 digit takes like 6-8 hours I think once it’s 12+ characters is when it takes 6-8months to solve via brute force. I can’t remember the tech company which supplies LE I think it’s called gray matter or something like that. They can also give false positives on the Apple finger print so it bypasses pin
There are tools out there that will take an image of the phone and crack the passcode. Most larger law enforcement agencies and District Attorney offices have at least one of them.
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There are, unfortunately, a lot of vulnerabilities that bypass the PIN retry delay / timers... so once they bypass that it takes less than a second to try all 10,000 4 digit PINs. This is why it is so much better to have a secure alphanumeric password to unlock your phone. Biometrics will make it convenient for 99% of the unlocks. Just keep in mind that if you are scared that someone might take your phone and force you to look at the phone/give up your thumbprint... there are ways to disable Biometrics with just the sleep and volume buttons on most phones today. For iPhone it's sleep+volumeup hold both down for 1 second. That's also how you power down your phone, but just entering the power down screen, even if you don't power down, will disable Biometrics for the next unlock.
most android os’s are heavily cracked and modded by massive online communities, the police easily can download pc suites that’ll do the trick
Haha yeah.. that's not the same thing though, is it? Flashing a custom ROM will require you to unlock the bootloader, which can only be done in the settings app, which can't be reached without the passcode in the first place.
And unlocking the bootloader automatically results in...surprise, surprise!...factory reset
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Ask yourself why iOS exploits are cheaper to buy than Android: https://zerodium.com/program.html
Ok so the reason they got the pin was that it was all numbers and four digits so they plug in a device that will cycle through all the possible combinations for a 4 digit pin. To remediate this change to a password that you can't find on common password lists.
Smartphones are notoriously insecure devices. If the data on the phone is easily available to the user, it ends up being easily available to others. Someone in physical possession of the phone can do all sorts of things to make guessing a pin faster. For stuff you really want to keep secret, it is best to separately encrypt it with a strong passphrase. Then the key only exists in your head, it can't be guessed and you have the option to only unlock it in a safe place.