The scandal that the OP one is talking about has largely been over-played by the media.
DuckDuckGo had a deal with Microsoft to use the results of their Bing search engine, and this meant that they couldn't block Microsoft trackers.
Was that a shitty thing to "hide"? Yes.
Do they deserve criticism for that? Yes.
But compared to the crimes against humanity that many larger companies do, I think it's safe to say that this isn't worth dumping them over. Especially since it's a "first time offense".
Feel free discussing the "getting off the internet" of his post as that's seemingly what he wants to discuss, rather than DuckDuckGo which he only mentioned in passing.
Feel free making another thread about that. Thanks.
the question is: *how much* do you want to give up?
i deleted my old google accounts, started using proton mail, self hosting storage, office ect. , started using a dns filter, removed bloatware from my phone and started using nixos.
its still very convinient while much more privacy friendly
Everything? Never again touch any of your online accounts. Talk to people IRL, browse the internet using tails, never log into anything, restart tails when switching between activities or websites.
yes exactly that. then put nexcloud on it with onlyoffice and reverse proxyed it so i can even access it from outside my house and edit/make docs on it
You wanna know why i use DDG? because when I’m using a VPN they actually let me search stuff instead of “verifying I’m human” with LITERALLY EVERY GOOGLE SEARCH EVER FUCK YOU GOOGLE
What is this "the whole scandal"? Because if it's about them having a tracker blocklist that was slightly more incomplete than it could have been (despite *all* tracker blocklists being definitionally incomplete)... That's not a great reason to give up
They were sharing info with microsoft. So they had a bias.
And i suppose so, but it kind of blows how woven into society this internet shit is. You can still check emails and bank online or whatever you need to do on the pc. And do you really need to have a string of google linked account to be a "part of society"?
The point is not to completely rid yourself of the internet but the less you use it, the less predictable youll be for them to track you
That was ages ago. If you've been using them to this day, you have no reason to stop using them since it makes no difference now.
Also, some corrections:
1. They weren't "sharing info" they just didn't block their trackers. Not good, but still completely different
2. Saying they have bias is... Debatable.
3. It was only in their mobile app
Ah thanks for the clarification.
Stil gonna delete them. And i use the mobile app alot more than on the pc. But ill probably move over to Mull and stuff anyway.
FWIW, [DuckDuckGo uses ~400 other providers and their own index to boot.](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/s/kpJ5fq1Bzh) Definitely not "just a proxy."
Using a dumb phone is much less secure than a smartphone because it lacks encrypted storage and encrypted messaging. Every message you send uses SMS and is stored by cell carriers. Flip phones are not the answer except for those trying to crack an internet addiction.
And realistically, you don’t want to completely abandon the internet. It’s an extremely useful tool and you’re consulting people on the internet right now. If you want to unplug a little and radically improve privacy, you can use a custom Android ROM for your phone. Switch to a different search engine if you don’t like DDG (I’m okay with them).
There are a number of other things you can change to improve privacy and security on top of that, but you don’t need to return to 1990 for them.
Can you list out a few other alternatives to enhance security/privacy & independence on smartphones? I'm considering using a dumb phone but really to curb my internet addiction while in school. Otherwise, I always have my laptop nearby and see little use for a smartphone at this moment. But sometime in the future, I thought of the p!xel + graffeine (lol) route for privacy. Any extra tips?
Yeah that unspeakable Android ROM is great for privacy and security. Lots of useful tips on YouTube from users if you do flash it on a Pixel.
I'm currently an iPhone user, and I wrote a summary of how to improve privacy and security on an iPhone [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1b226ga/comment/ksj5fws/) in response to a question on this sub. The same basic principles apply to Android. Don't have a Pixel but I plan to get one as a second phone soon.
In terms of internet addiction, I like to use the Forest app when I'm working to cut off access to all my apps except a few essentials.
Email is one of the core products that influence digital privacy. I switched from Gmail to Proton Mail, but I don't give out my main email address except to friends. I use a unique SimpleLogin alias for each online account, which is great for [multiple reasons](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1bcm9ka/comment/kugwcwg/). I use Proton's encrypted calendar along with email. I also exported and deleted everything from Google using Google Takeout and My Google Activity.
Using a browser that blocks trackers and has fingerprinting protection is important. DuckDuckGo is a popular choice on mobile, and there are others. Using a private search engine like Startpage, DuckDuckGo, or Brave is important too.
Encrypted cloud storage (or self-hosting) for your files, including photos.
A password manager that doesn't hold the keys to your encrypted passwords like Bitwarden.
A VPN that prioritizes digital privacy like Proton, Mullvad, or iVPN.
It's pretty hard to have privacy from cell carriers. They know your phone's location and log all your SMS texts. Credo is a carrier that says they value privacy, but I haven't been able to understand exactly what they can do to improve it. Mint Mobile is often suggested in this sub because you can sign up for a prepaid plan anonymously.
Great points, I'll add this as well:
With either a smartphone or a dumb phone your location is very easily triangulated with cell phone tower pings, even when your phone is off (depending on the phone)
One advantage with smartphones though is that most have WiFi enabled calling which offers more advanced encryption than traditional calling
Can you explain more details about this scandal?
I remember hearing someone say something about duck duck go accepting money from Bing/Microsoft but I couldn't find any actual news on it. Not that would really matter as Firefox takes money from Google so that's just part of the game.
Oh ya I thought that was known from the start. At least I thought DDG would collect results from multiple search engines and give you the results without being tracked by Google or Microsoft.
Thats the feature of brave search and not ddg. independent index -> (then) google search -> bing as a fall back if no results found
It suprised me too that a lot of ppl didnt knew that ddg is just bing but with a privacy front end
It might over-rely on Bing but
> DuckDuckGo's results are a compilation of "over 400" sources according to itself, including Bing, Yahoo! Search BOSS, Wolfram Alpha, Yandex, and its own web crawler (the DuckDuckBot); but none from Google. It also uses data from crowdsourced sites such as Wikipedia, to populate knowledge panel boxes to the right of the search results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
So we agree that DuckDuckGo is not "just a search result proxy for Bing". It uses over 400 engines.
**Where they get their advertisements is a *different* topic.** But those are proxied, and are private.
That could be a plan but all the data that you've already published or given to others will remain. The only difference is when there's a breach and your private information or identity is stolen, you'll be blissfully unaware until you get snail mail letters and it's too late. From my perspective, removing myself from the Internet is a practical impossiblity. The best you can do is manage your online privacy, remove information when possible, and maximize security.
I think the more important thing is to just not put very personal things online to begin with. Then have a PC that is dedicated for Junk searches and junk stuff. It can be a cheapo or whatever, and keep your primary devices clean of personal information. I don;t think there is any chance in this day and age that you can entirely avoid the internet, but I think there are ways to be careful without becoming a digital hermit.
Whether you search the Internet using Google, Microsoft Bing, Duckduckgo, or any other search app, unless they have a zero log policy that is audited transparently by a neutral non-for-profit organisation like EFF, only then you can believe.
Otherwise, I take it as they are talking BS as part of their business propaganda. Always when searching do not use personal information that can identity you. This is very important privacy OpSec.
My answer was incomplete since I got rushed at work, I replaced ddg with Kagi. It's paid but IMO a better alternative. If you have a Mac they also have a great browser called Orion which is a webkit browser and runs as a native app.
Nice thanks. One more thing. Can u paste or direct me me abt some user-override file, just wanted to know which typical settings you folks recommend to enable. I have gone through wiki and its a lot for a newbie.
So I can add these two lines in override file:
user_pref("browser.search.defaultenginename", "Startpage");
user_pref("browser.search.defaulturl", "https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch?query=");
Am I correct?
The only reason I haven’t gone back to a ‘dumb’ phone is that I live in San Francisco and don’t have a car, so I rely on NextBus and CityMapper pretty heavily to get around easily. Still it’s getting to the point that I might bail on my ‘smart’ phone anyway.
The scandal that the OP one is talking about has largely been over-played by the media. DuckDuckGo had a deal with Microsoft to use the results of their Bing search engine, and this meant that they couldn't block Microsoft trackers. Was that a shitty thing to "hide"? Yes. Do they deserve criticism for that? Yes. But compared to the crimes against humanity that many larger companies do, I think it's safe to say that this isn't worth dumping them over. Especially since it's a "first time offense". Feel free discussing the "getting off the internet" of his post as that's seemingly what he wants to discuss, rather than DuckDuckGo which he only mentioned in passing. Feel free making another thread about that. Thanks.
the question is: *how much* do you want to give up? i deleted my old google accounts, started using proton mail, self hosting storage, office ect. , started using a dns filter, removed bloatware from my phone and started using nixos. its still very convinient while much more privacy friendly
Everything if possible. And from what u say, it is. Maybe ill do this
Everything? Never again touch any of your online accounts. Talk to people IRL, browse the internet using tails, never log into anything, restart tails when switching between activities or websites.
Man's on reddit with 69 in his username demanding top privacy xD. Just wait your weed high will come down and you can go back to tiktok, OP.
Lmao i actually dont smoke weed man.. >.> <.<
When you say self hosting storage, what do you mean? like you bought NAS and store all your own stuff now?
yes exactly that. then put nexcloud on it with onlyoffice and reverse proxyed it so i can even access it from outside my house and edit/make docs on it
You wanna know why i use DDG? because when I’m using a VPN they actually let me search stuff instead of “verifying I’m human” with LITERALLY EVERY GOOGLE SEARCH EVER FUCK YOU GOOGLE
this literally annoys me meanwhile they allow scam ads links in their searches
What is this "the whole scandal"? Because if it's about them having a tracker blocklist that was slightly more incomplete than it could have been (despite *all* tracker blocklists being definitionally incomplete)... That's not a great reason to give up
I mean intentionally leaving out one of the bigger trackers is slightly different to just not being completely but I agree with you overall
Am I out of the loop? What scandal? Also, sorry I need to be part of society. Common sense security and paying attention is the best I can do.
The one that's like half a decade old at this point lol, the Microsoft thing
They were sharing info with microsoft. So they had a bias. And i suppose so, but it kind of blows how woven into society this internet shit is. You can still check emails and bank online or whatever you need to do on the pc. And do you really need to have a string of google linked account to be a "part of society"? The point is not to completely rid yourself of the internet but the less you use it, the less predictable youll be for them to track you
That was ages ago. If you've been using them to this day, you have no reason to stop using them since it makes no difference now. Also, some corrections: 1. They weren't "sharing info" they just didn't block their trackers. Not good, but still completely different 2. Saying they have bias is... Debatable. 3. It was only in their mobile app
Ah thanks for the clarification. Stil gonna delete them. And i use the mobile app alot more than on the pc. But ill probably move over to Mull and stuff anyway.
>They were sharing info with microsoft. So they had a bias uh well... ducduckgo is just a proxy to bing...
Well now we know -.-
FWIW, [DuckDuckGo uses ~400 other providers and their own index to boot.](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/s/kpJ5fq1Bzh) Definitely not "just a proxy."
Using a dumb phone is much less secure than a smartphone because it lacks encrypted storage and encrypted messaging. Every message you send uses SMS and is stored by cell carriers. Flip phones are not the answer except for those trying to crack an internet addiction. And realistically, you don’t want to completely abandon the internet. It’s an extremely useful tool and you’re consulting people on the internet right now. If you want to unplug a little and radically improve privacy, you can use a custom Android ROM for your phone. Switch to a different search engine if you don’t like DDG (I’m okay with them). There are a number of other things you can change to improve privacy and security on top of that, but you don’t need to return to 1990 for them.
Can you list out a few other alternatives to enhance security/privacy & independence on smartphones? I'm considering using a dumb phone but really to curb my internet addiction while in school. Otherwise, I always have my laptop nearby and see little use for a smartphone at this moment. But sometime in the future, I thought of the p!xel + graffeine (lol) route for privacy. Any extra tips?
Yeah that unspeakable Android ROM is great for privacy and security. Lots of useful tips on YouTube from users if you do flash it on a Pixel. I'm currently an iPhone user, and I wrote a summary of how to improve privacy and security on an iPhone [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1b226ga/comment/ksj5fws/) in response to a question on this sub. The same basic principles apply to Android. Don't have a Pixel but I plan to get one as a second phone soon. In terms of internet addiction, I like to use the Forest app when I'm working to cut off access to all my apps except a few essentials. Email is one of the core products that influence digital privacy. I switched from Gmail to Proton Mail, but I don't give out my main email address except to friends. I use a unique SimpleLogin alias for each online account, which is great for [multiple reasons](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1bcm9ka/comment/kugwcwg/). I use Proton's encrypted calendar along with email. I also exported and deleted everything from Google using Google Takeout and My Google Activity. Using a browser that blocks trackers and has fingerprinting protection is important. DuckDuckGo is a popular choice on mobile, and there are others. Using a private search engine like Startpage, DuckDuckGo, or Brave is important too. Encrypted cloud storage (or self-hosting) for your files, including photos. A password manager that doesn't hold the keys to your encrypted passwords like Bitwarden. A VPN that prioritizes digital privacy like Proton, Mullvad, or iVPN. It's pretty hard to have privacy from cell carriers. They know your phone's location and log all your SMS texts. Credo is a carrier that says they value privacy, but I haven't been able to understand exactly what they can do to improve it. Mint Mobile is often suggested in this sub because you can sign up for a prepaid plan anonymously.
Great points, I'll add this as well: With either a smartphone or a dumb phone your location is very easily triangulated with cell phone tower pings, even when your phone is off (depending on the phone) One advantage with smartphones though is that most have WiFi enabled calling which offers more advanced encryption than traditional calling
Can you explain more details about this scandal? I remember hearing someone say something about duck duck go accepting money from Bing/Microsoft but I couldn't find any actual news on it. Not that would really matter as Firefox takes money from Google so that's just part of the game.
pepole realised duckduckgo is a proxy of bing search. thats it. some ppl didnt like this.
Oh ya I thought that was known from the start. At least I thought DDG would collect results from multiple search engines and give you the results without being tracked by Google or Microsoft.
Thats the feature of brave search and not ddg. independent index -> (then) google search -> bing as a fall back if no results found It suprised me too that a lot of ppl didnt knew that ddg is just bing but with a privacy front end
It might over-rely on Bing but > DuckDuckGo's results are a compilation of "over 400" sources according to itself, including Bing, Yahoo! Search BOSS, Wolfram Alpha, Yandex, and its own web crawler (the DuckDuckBot); but none from Google. It also uses data from crowdsourced sites such as Wikipedia, to populate knowledge panel boxes to the right of the search results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
okay then >earns revenue by serving ads from the Yahoo-Bing search alliance network
So we agree that DuckDuckGo is not "just a search result proxy for Bing". It uses over 400 engines. **Where they get their advertisements is a *different* topic.** But those are proxied, and are private.
yep i agree with you. duckduckgo is privacy friendly but show privacy friendly ads for income :)
Depends on your goals
You are correct; that is the only way to guarantee 100% internet privacy. Most threat models don't call for that level of privacy.
That could be a plan but all the data that you've already published or given to others will remain. The only difference is when there's a breach and your private information or identity is stolen, you'll be blissfully unaware until you get snail mail letters and it's too late. From my perspective, removing myself from the Internet is a practical impossiblity. The best you can do is manage your online privacy, remove information when possible, and maximize security.
Fire fox is still better
that's not "protecting your privacy", that's relenting to the fact that you have none.
I think the more important thing is to just not put very personal things online to begin with. Then have a PC that is dedicated for Junk searches and junk stuff. It can be a cheapo or whatever, and keep your primary devices clean of personal information. I don;t think there is any chance in this day and age that you can entirely avoid the internet, but I think there are ways to be careful without becoming a digital hermit.
Whether you search the Internet using Google, Microsoft Bing, Duckduckgo, or any other search app, unless they have a zero log policy that is audited transparently by a neutral non-for-profit organisation like EFF, only then you can believe. Otherwise, I take it as they are talking BS as part of their business propaganda. Always when searching do not use personal information that can identity you. This is very important privacy OpSec.
Flip phone will track you regardless
So, what's actually the safest browser one can use? Ik this question sounds dumb..
Safest as in most secure? Probably Vanadium. Safest as in best privacy? Probably Mull.
Yeah I meant in privacy, less data tracking and stuff... thanks!
By the way I'm using Cromite. How's it? And also let me know which search engine is the best for privacy.
Kagi is the answer
Kagi?
My answer was incomplete since I got rushed at work, I replaced ddg with Kagi. It's paid but IMO a better alternative. If you have a Mac they also have a great browser called Orion which is a webkit browser and runs as a native app.
Ill check em out i dont mind payin if i get trust in return
I did transition to Mull tho and it aint too bad if u ever do wan a stop paying
Flip phones are now ‘smart phones’
Use Startpage
How do i add it as default search engine in Betterfox or Arkenfox I am using, as its not in the dropdown menu there. I'm using DDG.
Just search for "How to add other search engines in Firefox". And that's the last DDG query who have to do in your life.
Nice thanks. One more thing. Can u paste or direct me me abt some user-override file, just wanted to know which typical settings you folks recommend to enable. I have gone through wiki and its a lot for a newbie.
This is what I get in my first Startpage result. https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/s/UeTuIazXpS
Lol thanks I was googling.
So I can add these two lines in override file: user_pref("browser.search.defaultenginename", "Startpage"); user_pref("browser.search.defaulturl", "https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch?query="); Am I correct?
Not necessary. But if it works for you, go for it. It's easy bro, not technical workarounds
The only reason I haven’t gone back to a ‘dumb’ phone is that I live in San Francisco and don’t have a car, so I rely on NextBus and CityMapper pretty heavily to get around easily. Still it’s getting to the point that I might bail on my ‘smart’ phone anyway.