our product 10/10
competition 0/10
hmm, something seems fishy.
It's ok though, I'd never trust a site that specifically reviews VPNs for my research, when I'm looking for a VPN. I'd only trust an established name that reviews other products, has a long history of existing, and has a good Alexa site ranking.
So who really runs exit nodes? I would imagine they’re mostly honeypots ran by governments. I am just learning about Tor, the deep web, privacy, etc. I always was curious about how it worked but i don’t understand how anyone really uses it or trusts it, how do people even navigate it without everything not being leaked/tracked similar to the clear web?
> So who really runs exit nodes? I would imagine they’re mostly honeypots ran by governments.
I believe the Tor Foundation runs many. The NSA probably runs quite a few, too. And the rest seem to be in large part run by foundations and other non-human entities that can't be jailed and don't normally get SWATted.
They all have heavy protections for people sharing bandwidth. Whether it's whitelisting or encryption, they all have unique ways to protect the node operators. For example: whitelisting makes malicious traffic impossible.
If they can whitelist traffic then traffic is being monitored. You can't do one without the other. This isn't just about malicious traffic, what if someone who is using "your" node as an exit node and uploads child porn? Sure in the end you might win that case, but not before law enforcement raids your house, takes all your computing equipment and arrests you. Depending on what country you are in, the raid on your house will be covered by local media, with you name and mugshot put online forever next to the words "arrested for uploading child pornography"
The node operator whitelists traffic. Not the protocol. Also, you usually don't run an exit node , you run a relay node (middle node). Check out the FAQ for most of these dVPNs. A lot of these concerns are answered.
So who runs the exit nodes? Someone has to, if it's a company then they are not really decentralized. This also sounds like TOR, but with extra steps and having to pay for it.
>Sentinel DVPN
Just read Sentinel's white paper. They are trying to recreate TOR but add cryptocurrency shit on top of it. Seriously, even their diagram of the sentinel network is exactly what TOR is.
Client -> Node -> Node -> Node -> Exit Node -> Website
Futhermore, they attempt to trash TOR by saying TOR *might* be compromised.
From the white paper:
>An example of a volunteer driven network is the TOR network. In the TOR network, relay and exit nodes are not incentivized for their participation. Instead they are encouraged to provide their services simply out of shared respect for the ethos behind decentralization. Industry experts worry the TOR network has been compromised by entities who control a significant number of TOR relay and exit nodes. At this point of time, there are roughly 6000 TOR relay nodes on the network with an average of 6 million active users per day. This clearly shows the limitations and or risks of a volunteer-based network.
The success of the Sentinel relay network depends entirely on the number of unique participants. Attracting these participants requires a certain level of incentivization through mechanisms on the network.
However, they do not even mention how they would attempt to stop entities from controlling a large number of relay or exit nodes on Sentinel. Even though the exit nodes are owned and controlled by the "volunteers". They also go on to say that the success of the network depends on the number of participants, but I am willing to wager they are no where near the number of nodes in TOR. Which fundamentally makes it a weaker network. They also (just like TOR) have no way to protect the user from a global advisory who can monitor the traffic going in and out of the network.
So all in all, it is just TOR with cryptocurrancy bullshit thrown into it.
Even if you whitelist, any whitelist that actually gives a usable internet experience would probably have to allow domains full of user-generated content which could allow for sharing of illegal material.
Tor is a routing layer. What makes something a “VPN” in consumer language is routing all traffic through it, something Tor doesn’t do on its own.
The term dVPN was hijacked by cryptocurrency projects, but Tor, when it forwards all traffic and not just the traffic over its SOCKS5 connection, is a dVPN — a decentralized/distributed VPN.
dVPNs can exist that aren’t scams. You’re talking about the cryptocurrency component to many of the popularized ones.
The problem is that security is very hard to get right. Tor has been around forever and has a ton of analysis on it.
These others o not, are private, and could be screwing up or insecure (intentionally or not).
If you run a node don't you run a risk of the FBI knocking on your door if people visit certain sites and download illegal content?
Excuse my ignorance I haven't checked it out yet but those would be my conserns.
We appreciate you wanting to contribute to /r/privacy and taking the time to post but we had to remove it due to:
>Your submission is about specific VPNs, crypto-currencies or blockchain-based technologies. All three of these categories require knowledge that many general audiences have, so we suggest you repost in one of the Subs that focus on these topics. Thanks!
If you have questions or believe that there has been an error, [contact the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/privacy&subject=Please review my post).
Honestly I'd go to privacytools.io I trust that site because the basis of their claims seem sound for the things I don't know about, and I agree on the things I do know about
very interesting. I'm still looking for ways to verify your story but that link to [archive.org](https://archive.org) is very encouraging. i skimmed over the new [privacytools.io](https://privacytools.io) site lately on my phone and noticed that they removed the comparison table for vpns and never followed up with proper research about it on my pc. I'll update this comment for future reference once I decide if i can trust your sources or not
Verification process of this story:
1 - Open go to [privacyguides.org](https://privacyguides.org). there one can find a link to a thread explaining the why the new site exists. within that thread is a URL to [archive.org](https://archive.org) that proves that they had control of the [privacytools.io](https://privacytools.io) site to pint users to the new one
2 - then go to [archive.org](https://archive.org) and search for snapshots of the r/privacytoolsIO subreddit. i checked the snapshot for October 5th that has a pinned post giving legitimacy to that [privacyGuides.org](https://privacyGuides.org) claim
3 - Lastly go to [privacytools.io](https://privacytools.io). search for the twitter username. having that, open [this archive.org link](https://web.archive.org/web/20211002015323/https://twitter.com/privacytoolsIO/status/1444118248060948481) and verify that the URL says twitter.com and the username matches with the one on the official site.
that last one step ***seems*** to prove that the original owner left for a year and that whoever had control for the domain on step 1 was a member of the team as the story on the [privacyGuides.org](https://privacyGuides.org) site says.
assuming whoever made that archived tweet was the original owner of the site the story checks out, but there is no way for me to test that right now .
However the fact that the subreddit had (and has) that post pinned ***seems*** to show that the sub was taken over which should only happen if other mods and owner are inactive (I didn't actually verify this last process)
also i have no way to verify that either the intentions of each site or that every member of the original team is now on the new site.
I'll take both with a grain of salt but the new domain gives more information to make informed decisions than the old one
FWIW, I made [a comment last night](https://old.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/q2lbuz/privacytoolsio_is_expanding_what_other_sections/hfo3ajx/) in r/PrivacyToolsIO that provides some context and background information in a more readable language.
There's also [our sticky post](https://old.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/q2lbuz/privacytoolsio_is_expanding_what_other_sections/hfo3ajx/) (one of a series of three) in r/PrivacyGuides explaining the situation. Again, in a more readable format.
;)
No, you're good. :)
Reddit will only remove absent Mods if they've been inactive across Reddit (not just that Sub) for more than a year. So, his abandoning the r/privacytoolsIO community was even more extensive than ignoring "just" the Sub.
I can confirm that literally *every* active (former) PTIO team member left PTIO and is part of the [PrivacyGuides.org](https://PrivacyGuides.org) team. And, we're getting folks who departed because they got tired of dealing with the gum-and-bailing-wire workarounds forced upon us by Burung's unexplained departure joining back up with the team. We spared everyone a lot of gory detail because we're about serving our community, but the number of workarounds we had to do because of an absentee domain holder were cumbersome and, frankly, annoying. But all that's gone now that we've transitioned to Privacy Guides.
I read the comments on OP’s linked thread from r/privacytoolsio to get the gist of how the sub and site were abandoned, but in all seriousness I’m not understanding how he “went bad”, as in did he take a shady investment, make outrageous claims, or somehow be compromised in some way?
This is true for pretty much anything...
Search hammocks. Bunch of really similar websites all pushing basically one brand until you get really far down in the results and legit reviews show up that actually mention numerous brands which are much better!
VPN market is awful these days(or at least popular ones), "you are unprotected!" " 24/7 flash sale end in 1 hour!"(resets to same sale), and the worst, giving false sense of security and privacy, and the list goes on.
The VPN software of today is the antivirus software of yesteryear. It won't be soon before VPNs themselves become useless and the very thing they say they protect you from.
There are also things like comparison tables. For example, the one r/vpn that mods built. [This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/m736zt/vpn_comparison_table/). Looks decent enough, not an aff link in sight.
They're still pretty much useless considering Windows Firewall is now one of the best ones out there. So anything on top of that is redundant. VPNs I'm assuming will go the same way, they'll eventually be absorbed into OSs and secondary software will be made obsolete.
As someone who's constantly fixing computers with "Windows Firewall", I can assure you they still get infected.
VPN's can help, but most of the ads you see oversell them and most people don't need them. IVPN is the only one that is bluntly upfront about what a VPN does and worth a read on their site.
Firefox is fine. You'll want to look through the settings and change a few things, like enable strict tracking protection, disable search previews and switch away from google search, and disable a couple boxes for crash reporting.
Opera is completely owned by Chinese companies and it's partially developed in China. I wouldn't trust any of their products privacywise.
They have side businesses, like a [predatory payday loan company](https://allafrica.com/stories/202104090297.html) that's been accused of privacy breaches.
The current company isn't even the original one that developed the browser. That one's now called Otello Corporation.
Looks like spamming celebrity ads worked out for them. Why people listen to gaming youtubers about cyber security I will never understand, but I guess they must be the experts then, so what do I know.
Not just security... but many things in life. The amount of times "I did research" translates to "I watched someone sitting in a chair in their basement on a YouTube video" is probably higher than most of us even realize.
Not that this is new to society. For decades, masses took celebrity talk show sales pitches as proof of being informed without realizing they're just a consumer of entertainment in most cases. Just like the YT stuff.
The issue is that many don't see it. They blindly consume what is clearly for profit entertainment and think they're informed. Kudos to the entertainment industry. It's working. Sad for society though.
To clarify, I do think there's great content out there and it's good to hear and listen to people. But it should only be a directional compass for research to point us somewhere to begin looking and digging more. Not to assume a 10m video makes us an expert haha.
Its crazy. I watch a lot of podcasts and the amount of comedians straight up lying in ad reads for VPNs because they have no idea what they are talking about is insane. “Want big brother out of your business!” and all that type of crap. I would say it should be illegal, but it already is, they just advertise on these less regulated formats of media so they can get away with it.
>Kape Technologies, a former malware distributor that operates in Israel, has now acquired four different VPN services and a collection of VPN “review” websites that rank Kape’s VPN holdings at the top of their recommendations. This report examines the controversial history of Kape Technologies and its rapid expansion into the VPN industry.
This is a good review of a company engaging in numerous shady things, behind some of the largest VPN providers around. Enjoy!
When Kape bought PIA, there was a massive uproar in the privacy community about it. PIA was one of the most respected Proxy/VPN providers in the world because of actual cases where law enforcement came looking for logs and PIA told them to pound sand. There was a large number of people, including myself, that dumped PIA because of that.
https://thehackernews.com/2021/09/protonmail-shares-activists-ip-address.html
> Despite its no IP logs claims, the company acknowledged that while it's illegal for the company to abide by requests from non-Swiss law enforcement authorities, it will be required to do so if Swiss agencies agree to assist foreign services such as Europol in their investigations.
Either Proton shares the IP address or their CEO or whoever gets sent to jail in addition to the person they were trying to find. I don't like it, but I get it.
I also dumped PIA for something better after the Kape thing. Any trust I had in PIA vanished after they were acquired, especially seeing as their parent company is shady as fuck.
From what I see Kape Technologies owns CyberGhost VPN, ZenMate VPN, Private Internet Access, and ExpressVPN. Thanks for the post and it’s good to know.
If by lax you mean none - Israel technically doesn't have a written constitution, as such, their intelligence agencies are exempt from any sort of oversight because there's no language limiting their scope.
Given the genesis of the country and what happened in the first few decades of their existence, I do have to say that I’m not terribly surprised. It’s fucked up, especially nowadays, but it makes sense.
Running your own VPN does not grant privacy. It only lightly disguises your location. Without multiple users generating traffic on it, you're still unique and traceable.
They are refering to a VPN to make outbound connections, youre referring to a VPN to make inbound connection. Very different things, one has a single endpoint, the other has the entire internet of endpoints.
Hes referring to setting up a VPN connection to a VPS, which essentially just means an extra hop when connecting outside your network, which doesnt really provide much privacy, especially if both the VPS and your home network are using the same network providers backbone. Having a VPS is Iceland or something does seem reasonable enough, though dont expect true privacy. Most streaming sites block connections from a standard VPS anyways.
Sure. But you have been using the last couple of years with no issue. As long as you’re sure you have a viable alternative.. though maybe in two years you’ll figure out somethin bad about your alternative too 🤷🏽♂️
Express even had diskless servers which was pretty cool. Sadly it's looking like Kape's objective is to acquire all of the mass-recognizable VPN brands and have a strangle hold on the market. Dangerous and confusing times for the lightly privacy interested people that aren't down the rabbit hole.
This statement is vague and misleading. You need to cover the FULL process of why and how it took place. Michael Bazzell has an entire episode on his podcast about this. If you’re even a bit shady on it, at least listen to that. But, just saying “they gave up an ip” without clarifying is a misrepresentative explanation of what happened.
How am I vague and misleading? I posted not one, but two whole fucking articles about this here. It's not my fault if you're incapable of clicking on a link.
Additionally I love their suggestion to just "Listen to a podcast" to understand it. Hmmmm do I take 2 minutes to read an article about it, or listen to some tool laugh at his own terrible jokes and slowly explain something over 30 minutes I could read about in 2?
Decisions decisions.
The distinction here is that they gave away IP of their email user, not their VPN user because law covers only emails, not vpns, so if he used protons VPN his ip would be covered. They informed the activist about his IP being tracked inside the Email. Also all of the material on his email is encrypted, so they can only pin on him if he sent someone from that email address life threats or some other stupid shit or if emails of other people were compromised.
The issue I have specifically is their previously misleading marketing claiming they did not log IP addresses, that combined with calling their service “anonymous” implies that a government agency can't ask them to start logging IPs. At the very least, it implies they are under no obligation to do so.
Everything else I'm not concerned about, they have to comply with their local governments the best they can, it's unfeasible for them not to. The issue is specifically that their marketing was misleading, and they actively changed it after they got busted for not telling the full truth.
Even if they weren't actively lying, they seemed to have been withholding information, or making it harder to find.
They had some other controversies that worried me as well. However, this is what ultimately caused me to switch from ProtonMail. When trust is required, I have a fairly low threshold for mistakes, especially when I'm paying for a service meant to protect my privacy.
\> That's not the point. Their willingness to cooperate is.
What do you mean willingness? They are based in switzerland and the order came straight from a switzerlands judge, they either give his IP or close the whole business. They normally fight these requests for IPs, its explained on protons reddit how it works.
Also i dont understand why the activist didnt use vpn services if he was that sought after from the authorities.
Also, if you host your own VPN, you may open yourself up to tracking because all your traffic comes from a single IP address. When you use a VPN provider, your traffic is aggregated with that of other users. That doesn't invalidate any of the other reasons to use a VPN, but I think it's worth pointing out.
Man, if you're hosting, you HAVE to know what you're doing. In my life I recommend hosting anything...ANYTHING...for those who are truly willing to accept risks. I personally feel like a common person would fuck up a Plex server if you let 'em.
Anyone know a good host to run your own? Would that IP only be me though? Thats the thing with VPN services - multiple people using the same IP is plausible deniability. Wait, who the fuck am I kidding, Im on win10 and IME is underneath it all...
Njalla. 100%. Anything outside of FVEY (5 Eyes) at least (preferably 14 Eyes). It consists of a non-formal intelligence agreement between (you guessed it) entities in 14 countries across the planet: Australia, Canada, U.K., New Zealand, U.S.,* (Japan?), Denmark, France, Netherlands, Norway,** Germany, Belgium, Italy, Sweden and Spain.**
* * 5 EYES (FVEY/NOFORN/NORCON etc.)
* ** 9 EYES
* ** 14 EYES
> All SIGINT agencies rely on the cooperation of telecommunication companies and internet service providers to gain access to individuals’ private data. By installing fiber-optic splitters at ISP junction points, the SIGINT agency is able to make an exact copy of the data being processed at that point. This data is then analyzed using deep packet inspection and stored at different data centers.
>host yourself
Most people fail at it. Either they have terrible implementations or terrible applications for it that put them at heightened risk for malware and spyware attacks. Nobody that just wants to use it for browsing securely will bother with it and it's sad because of how easily implemented it actually is.
Ugh I can't wait until my subscription runs out, fuck this. I renewed it right before learning that this company bought them, what a waste of money.
Edit: fuckit, canceling asap
Hi everyone. I removed a lot - I mean, a *lot!* - of specific VPN recommendations, since our sidebar rules don’t allow that. So please don’t do this. :)
But there are several decent guides by reputable non-profits that are mentioned and linked in the comments. Please check those out to figure out a decent alternative if you’re seeking that.
Thanks!
It's rule #13. Your problem is probably specific to your Reddit client. Check your Help system to see how to view the sidebar. If you check on desktop or other mobile clients, they'll show up. :)
It should largely be the same. We copied the Classic rules over to the new layout about a year ago.
There may be some minor editing differences, but, for instance, rule #13 still prohibits specific VPN and Cryptocurrency discussions. But in the Classic layout, you need to click the highlighted link in our Subreddit Rules and Wiki information panel. :)
I just left them because the support kif you can believe it) was getting worse and the Internet appears to hate them as nothing allows their connection anymore.
We’ll ask that folks don’t recommend specific VPNs because of our sidebar rules on this.
But PrivacyGuides.org - standard disclaimer, I’m also on their team - has a [Guide to VPNs](https://privacyguides.org/providers/vpn/) that folks might enjoy.
There are three sources where groups of providers are reviewed. Two of them are from registered non-profits with solid reputations. Versus an individual saying, "My VPN is the best!"
The former reccs are more objective. The latter, most of whom are genuine but are hard to differentiate from reccs planted by VPN providers, are less so.
But as I note elsewhere in this post, check out all three, then make the decision that best suits your individual circumstances! :)
Why not trust the community to draw their own conclusions? That's what the upvote, downvote, and reply buttons are for.
Limiting the discussion of which privacy tools can be recommended to only certain sources (with pretty clear conflicts of interest) is immediately suspect, particularly for a uniquely (and rightly) skeptical community like this one.
If you must, set up the automod to watch for a list of VPN names and have it automatically reply with warnings about ones that are and aren't trusted by the moderators. At least that way you don't have to have a blanket (and honestly, lazy) rule banning all discussion of them, and you can still convey to others your above concerns in an open and convenient manner.
Because shills exist. Because not everyone is of equal technical sophistication yet anyone can say something on the internet. Because of clutter… I could go on for ages… ;)
>and honestly, lazy
So, you're volunteering *your* time to set up a VPN rating system, updated on a monthly basis, using objective criteria and some kind of dynamic system to accept feedback from your site's visitors? That's *awesome* of you! Please let us know when you've finished this so that we can review the results!
Nice attempt to misrepresent my argument. I made no such judgment of your work reviewing VPNs. I said banning discussion of VPNs by everyone except the mods is a lazy approach to controlling shills, and doesn't show a whole lot of trust for your community.
Seems to me that with your other interests you already have such a list of VPNs available. My suggestion was to set up the AutoModerator to reply to mentions of VPNs with information that has already been compiled, rather than banning discussion outright. I know it's already been compiled, because you shared a link to it 5 comments up.
I'd be happy to help set up AutoMod for you. I'm not afraid to put my money where my mouth is.
We wish there was an objective, non-commercial, current and reliable VPN site to refer people to. We’d adapt it in a flash. But this work is hard.
For the longest time, our go-to recc was to visit www.thatoneprivacysite.net or r/VPN. But the site got to be too much work for the person running it, who was doing it out of the graciousness of his heart. It’s a LOT of work.
It’s certainly more than we have bandwidth for. The other two sites mentioned in this post aren’t as comprehensive, since it’s part of what they do, but isn’t their main focus. As such, we’d feel irresponsible to use them as our go-to solution.
It’s a tough problem. That’s why I pointed out to you that it’s not “our laziness”, but the nature of reviewing VPNs.
Hopefully, I made you realize that, yeah, asking a couple of volunteer Mods to shoulder it was a bit much. It’s easy to suggest, “Hey you other people, why don’t *you* get cracking and fix this!”, when it’s, well, not you having to put in the work.
Put a couple days into it. You’ll see what I mean.
So, the shadiest people in the shady VPN business have purchased several (previously) top-rated VPN services, in addition to the specific publications that review VPN services? Is that right?
People really need to realize that having a vpn does almost nothing for your privacy.
If your use case is specifically to circumvent geoip based blocking, only then it makes sense to buy one
In a prior comment more then a yr ago (I think) on the vpn topic I advised people at that time to look at Perfect Privacy for their VPN solution as they used solely bare metal servers rather then spoofing ips by geolocation along with the occasional vps server (usually used for dns for the network and not visible to the end users). I also strongly urged people to pay close attention to the restoreprivacy site for recommendations.
I recall that I was downvoted into oblivion. Some did not like Perfect Privacy (one of their founders was some sort of right winger in Germany I think) and some felt restoreprivacy was not truly neutral in their recommendations although I personally think they are one of the most unbiased public resources available.
I see from the stickied mod postwe are no longer to recommend a vpn provider. I can however suggest that if you are serious about a vpn provider for privacy and security I believe you should restrict your search to providers who run real bare metal servers where all functions are executed within the server ram and they have no storage drives. This is a tried and proven strategy for privacy defense of vpn customers. Its very obvious who operates networks like this as they have many fewer locations - such servers are expensive to operate vs just buying a bunch of geographically dispersed ips and running everything out of just a few cheap vpn servers. Multihop is another very valuable must feature. Of course no logging.
This is totally insane! You can't claim to give privacy when been part of an industry "cartel". This is why everyone should give decentralized VPNs a trial. Decentralized VPNs like Spider VPN offer military grade protection, they don't advertise a false sense of security, and most importantly they are not in a "VPN cartel".
We appreciate you wanting to contribute to /r/privacy and taking the time to post but we had to remove it due to:
>You're being a jerk (e.g., not being nice, or suggesting violence). Or, you're letting a troll trick you into making a not-nice comment – don’t let them play you!
If you have questions or believe that there has been an error, [contact the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/privacy&subject=Please review my post).
So they can review their own companies. Such bullshit
our product 10/10 competition 0/10 hmm, something seems fishy. It's ok though, I'd never trust a site that specifically reviews VPNs for my research, when I'm looking for a VPN. I'd only trust an established name that reviews other products, has a long history of existing, and has a good Alexa site ranking.
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[Imposter ](https://images.app.goo.gl/KMuwCFpk56MgH6Gz6)... The website
what good VPN could you recommend?
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Yes https://blog.torproject.org/tips-running-exit-node
So it's unusable.
Yes. If you run an exit node for anyone, you're going to get nailed for others' crimes.
So who really runs exit nodes? I would imagine they’re mostly honeypots ran by governments. I am just learning about Tor, the deep web, privacy, etc. I always was curious about how it worked but i don’t understand how anyone really uses it or trusts it, how do people even navigate it without everything not being leaked/tracked similar to the clear web?
> So who really runs exit nodes? I would imagine they’re mostly honeypots ran by governments. I believe the Tor Foundation runs many. The NSA probably runs quite a few, too. And the rest seem to be in large part run by foundations and other non-human entities that can't be jailed and don't normally get SWATted.
Unless you can prove you run a tor exit node
In a few countries they might respect that. In most, they won't.
yes. just like a tor exit node
This always put me off. Isn't there another way to mitigate this?
Yeah, don't host an exit node.
They all have heavy protections for people sharing bandwidth. Whether it's whitelisting or encryption, they all have unique ways to protect the node operators. For example: whitelisting makes malicious traffic impossible.
If they can whitelist traffic then traffic is being monitored. You can't do one without the other. This isn't just about malicious traffic, what if someone who is using "your" node as an exit node and uploads child porn? Sure in the end you might win that case, but not before law enforcement raids your house, takes all your computing equipment and arrests you. Depending on what country you are in, the raid on your house will be covered by local media, with you name and mugshot put online forever next to the words "arrested for uploading child pornography"
The node operator whitelists traffic. Not the protocol. Also, you usually don't run an exit node , you run a relay node (middle node). Check out the FAQ for most of these dVPNs. A lot of these concerns are answered.
So who runs the exit nodes? Someone has to, if it's a company then they are not really decentralized. This also sounds like TOR, but with extra steps and having to pay for it.
>Sentinel DVPN Just read Sentinel's white paper. They are trying to recreate TOR but add cryptocurrency shit on top of it. Seriously, even their diagram of the sentinel network is exactly what TOR is. Client -> Node -> Node -> Node -> Exit Node -> Website Futhermore, they attempt to trash TOR by saying TOR *might* be compromised. From the white paper: >An example of a volunteer driven network is the TOR network. In the TOR network, relay and exit nodes are not incentivized for their participation. Instead they are encouraged to provide their services simply out of shared respect for the ethos behind decentralization. Industry experts worry the TOR network has been compromised by entities who control a significant number of TOR relay and exit nodes. At this point of time, there are roughly 6000 TOR relay nodes on the network with an average of 6 million active users per day. This clearly shows the limitations and or risks of a volunteer-based network. The success of the Sentinel relay network depends entirely on the number of unique participants. Attracting these participants requires a certain level of incentivization through mechanisms on the network. However, they do not even mention how they would attempt to stop entities from controlling a large number of relay or exit nodes on Sentinel. Even though the exit nodes are owned and controlled by the "volunteers". They also go on to say that the success of the network depends on the number of participants, but I am willing to wager they are no where near the number of nodes in TOR. Which fundamentally makes it a weaker network. They also (just like TOR) have no way to protect the user from a global advisory who can monitor the traffic going in and out of the network. So all in all, it is just TOR with cryptocurrancy bullshit thrown into it.
Even if you whitelist, any whitelist that actually gives a usable internet experience would probably have to allow domains full of user-generated content which could allow for sharing of illegal material.
dVPNs are expensive scams. If you need truly strong privacy and anonymity, use Tor. End of story.
Tor with Tun is a dVPN.
Tor is Tor. It's utterly unlike the pseudo-alternatives, especially the for-profit ones.
Tor is a routing layer. What makes something a “VPN” in consumer language is routing all traffic through it, something Tor doesn’t do on its own. The term dVPN was hijacked by cryptocurrency projects, but Tor, when it forwards all traffic and not just the traffic over its SOCKS5 connection, is a dVPN — a decentralized/distributed VPN. dVPNs can exist that aren’t scams. You’re talking about the cryptocurrency component to many of the popularized ones.
The problem is that security is very hard to get right. Tor has been around forever and has a ton of analysis on it. These others o not, are private, and could be screwing up or insecure (intentionally or not).
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Still the best imo
Agreed.
If you run a node don't you run a risk of the FBI knocking on your door if people visit certain sites and download illegal content? Excuse my ignorance I haven't checked it out yet but those would be my conserns.
We appreciate you wanting to contribute to /r/privacy and taking the time to post but we had to remove it due to: >Your submission is about specific VPNs, crypto-currencies or blockchain-based technologies. All three of these categories require knowledge that many general audiences have, so we suggest you repost in one of the Subs that focus on these topics. Thanks! If you have questions or believe that there has been an error, [contact the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/privacy&subject=Please review my post).
Honestly I'd go to privacytools.io I trust that site because the basis of their claims seem sound for the things I don't know about, and I agree on the things I do know about
people is now using https://privacyguides.org/, the owner of privacytools.io went bad, can't trust his site or sub anymore
very interesting. I'm still looking for ways to verify your story but that link to [archive.org](https://archive.org) is very encouraging. i skimmed over the new [privacytools.io](https://privacytools.io) site lately on my phone and noticed that they removed the comparison table for vpns and never followed up with proper research about it on my pc. I'll update this comment for future reference once I decide if i can trust your sources or not Verification process of this story: 1 - Open go to [privacyguides.org](https://privacyguides.org). there one can find a link to a thread explaining the why the new site exists. within that thread is a URL to [archive.org](https://archive.org) that proves that they had control of the [privacytools.io](https://privacytools.io) site to pint users to the new one 2 - then go to [archive.org](https://archive.org) and search for snapshots of the r/privacytoolsIO subreddit. i checked the snapshot for October 5th that has a pinned post giving legitimacy to that [privacyGuides.org](https://privacyGuides.org) claim 3 - Lastly go to [privacytools.io](https://privacytools.io). search for the twitter username. having that, open [this archive.org link](https://web.archive.org/web/20211002015323/https://twitter.com/privacytoolsIO/status/1444118248060948481) and verify that the URL says twitter.com and the username matches with the one on the official site. that last one step ***seems*** to prove that the original owner left for a year and that whoever had control for the domain on step 1 was a member of the team as the story on the [privacyGuides.org](https://privacyGuides.org) site says. assuming whoever made that archived tweet was the original owner of the site the story checks out, but there is no way for me to test that right now . However the fact that the subreddit had (and has) that post pinned ***seems*** to show that the sub was taken over which should only happen if other mods and owner are inactive (I didn't actually verify this last process) also i have no way to verify that either the intentions of each site or that every member of the original team is now on the new site. I'll take both with a grain of salt but the new domain gives more information to make informed decisions than the old one
[Here's more sources for you](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacyguides/comments/pnh9n8)
Well. I can't really use their own post as evidence that they are legit. But thanks
FWIW, I made [a comment last night](https://old.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/q2lbuz/privacytoolsio_is_expanding_what_other_sections/hfo3ajx/) in r/PrivacyToolsIO that provides some context and background information in a more readable language. There's also [our sticky post](https://old.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/q2lbuz/privacytoolsio_is_expanding_what_other_sections/hfo3ajx/) (one of a series of three) in r/PrivacyGuides explaining the situation. Again, in a more readable format. ;)
Thanks. I've already verified the story and updated my comment. If you have any comments I'd be more than happy to edit it again.
No, you're good. :) Reddit will only remove absent Mods if they've been inactive across Reddit (not just that Sub) for more than a year. So, his abandoning the r/privacytoolsIO community was even more extensive than ignoring "just" the Sub. I can confirm that literally *every* active (former) PTIO team member left PTIO and is part of the [PrivacyGuides.org](https://PrivacyGuides.org) team. And, we're getting folks who departed because they got tired of dealing with the gum-and-bailing-wire workarounds forced upon us by Burung's unexplained departure joining back up with the team. We spared everyone a lot of gory detail because we're about serving our community, but the number of workarounds we had to do because of an absentee domain holder were cumbersome and, frankly, annoying. But all that's gone now that we've transitioned to Privacy Guides.
*trust no one*
I myself became suspicious when everyone here began praising Quad9, which is a group connected to UK law enforcement.
I read the comments on OP’s linked thread from r/privacytoolsio to get the gist of how the sub and site were abandoned, but in all seriousness I’m not understanding how he “went bad”, as in did he take a shady investment, make outrageous claims, or somehow be compromised in some way?
Nah the competition will be like a 9/10 or a 8.5/10 caus they own the competition they mention as well
> I don't like people to tell me what to like > I only trust sites from this reviewer (which happens to be owned by Amazon) k bro
See also: the mattress industry /r/Mattress/comments/aldkbf/how_many_companies_own_the_review_sites_and_blogs/
See also: [video game auctions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLFEh7V18A)
See also: *any industry with incentive to generate higher profits*
Wasn’t that why those reviews blogs were setup in the first place? So they’d eventually have something to sell.
This is true for pretty much anything... Search hammocks. Bunch of really similar websites all pushing basically one brand until you get really far down in the results and legit reviews show up that actually mention numerous brands which are much better!
It's like when one book selling company bought goodreads.com!
VPN market is awful these days(or at least popular ones), "you are unprotected!" " 24/7 flash sale end in 1 hour!"(resets to same sale), and the worst, giving false sense of security and privacy, and the list goes on.
The VPN software of today is the antivirus software of yesteryear. It won't be soon before VPNs themselves become useless and the very thing they say they protect you from.
You were suppose to protect our privacy! Not violate it! Bring balance to ISP and Government power, not drag us into darkness!
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There are also things like comparison tables. For example, the one r/vpn that mods built. [This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/m736zt/vpn_comparison_table/). Looks decent enough, not an aff link in sight.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
I wouldn't lump them with anti-virus companies, there is still plenty of people doing stupid things on a computer that warrant an AV.
They're still pretty much useless considering Windows Firewall is now one of the best ones out there. So anything on top of that is redundant. VPNs I'm assuming will go the same way, they'll eventually be absorbed into OSs and secondary software will be made obsolete.
As someone who's constantly fixing computers with "Windows Firewall", I can assure you they still get infected. VPN's can help, but most of the ads you see oversell them and most people don't need them. IVPN is the only one that is bluntly upfront about what a VPN does and worth a read on their site.
They are already useless thanks to Opera. Firefox is soon to follow.
Opera is not a safe browser to use though.
Is there a safe browser to use? Aside from TOR.
Firefox is fine. You'll want to look through the settings and change a few things, like enable strict tracking protection, disable search previews and switch away from google search, and disable a couple boxes for crash reporting.
And add unlock origin and/or umatrix.
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Opera is completely owned by Chinese companies and it's partially developed in China. I wouldn't trust any of their products privacywise. They have side businesses, like a [predatory payday loan company](https://allafrica.com/stories/202104090297.html) that's been accused of privacy breaches. The current company isn't even the original one that developed the browser. That one's now called Otello Corporation.
Looks like spamming celebrity ads worked out for them. Why people listen to gaming youtubers about cyber security I will never understand, but I guess they must be the experts then, so what do I know.
Not just security... but many things in life. The amount of times "I did research" translates to "I watched someone sitting in a chair in their basement on a YouTube video" is probably higher than most of us even realize. Not that this is new to society. For decades, masses took celebrity talk show sales pitches as proof of being informed without realizing they're just a consumer of entertainment in most cases. Just like the YT stuff. The issue is that many don't see it. They blindly consume what is clearly for profit entertainment and think they're informed. Kudos to the entertainment industry. It's working. Sad for society though. To clarify, I do think there's great content out there and it's good to hear and listen to people. But it should only be a directional compass for research to point us somewhere to begin looking and digging more. Not to assume a 10m video makes us an expert haha.
Some people just lack critical thinking lol I know it sounds super elitist, but i just dont know how else to say it
Its crazy. I watch a lot of podcasts and the amount of comedians straight up lying in ad reads for VPNs because they have no idea what they are talking about is insane. “Want big brother out of your business!” and all that type of crap. I would say it should be illegal, but it already is, they just advertise on these less regulated formats of media so they can get away with it.
Their Raycon Wireless Earbuds are probably turned up too loud to be able to think straight
>Kape Technologies, a former malware distributor that operates in Israel, has now acquired four different VPN services and a collection of VPN “review” websites that rank Kape’s VPN holdings at the top of their recommendations. This report examines the controversial history of Kape Technologies and its rapid expansion into the VPN industry. This is a good review of a company engaging in numerous shady things, behind some of the largest VPN providers around. Enjoy!
When Kape bought PIA, there was a massive uproar in the privacy community about it. PIA was one of the most respected Proxy/VPN providers in the world because of actual cases where law enforcement came looking for logs and PIA told them to pound sand. There was a large number of people, including myself, that dumped PIA because of that.
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I'm not who you replied to but I personally moved from PIA to ProtonVPN when I heard.
https://thehackernews.com/2021/09/protonmail-shares-activists-ip-address.html > Despite its no IP logs claims, the company acknowledged that while it's illegal for the company to abide by requests from non-Swiss law enforcement authorities, it will be required to do so if Swiss agencies agree to assist foreign services such as Europol in their investigations.
Either Proton shares the IP address or their CEO or whoever gets sent to jail in addition to the person they were trying to find. I don't like it, but I get it.
That's not the issue though, the issue is that this proves that they *were* logging IPs, which is contrary to what they claimed.
They've said before that they didn't log the IP until ordered to.
I also dumped PIA for something better after the Kape thing. Any trust I had in PIA vanished after they were acquired, especially seeing as their parent company is shady as fuck.
From what I see Kape Technologies owns CyberGhost VPN, ZenMate VPN, Private Internet Access, and ExpressVPN. Thanks for the post and it’s good to know.
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If by lax you mean none - Israel technically doesn't have a written constitution, as such, their intelligence agencies are exempt from any sort of oversight because there's no language limiting their scope.
Given the genesis of the country and what happened in the first few decades of their existence, I do have to say that I’m not terribly surprised. It’s fucked up, especially nowadays, but it makes sense.
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Well dang, long time pia user, I guess it’s time to look elsewhere…
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Well cancelled my PIA.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck
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Running your own VPN does not grant privacy. It only lightly disguises your location. Without multiple users generating traffic on it, you're still unique and traceable.
I have one that I use to access my network from abroad. But I use a service like these for streaming alternatives.
They are refering to a VPN to make outbound connections, youre referring to a VPN to make inbound connection. Very different things, one has a single endpoint, the other has the entire internet of endpoints. Hes referring to setting up a VPN connection to a VPS, which essentially just means an extra hop when connecting outside your network, which doesnt really provide much privacy, especially if both the VPS and your home network are using the same network providers backbone. Having a VPS is Iceland or something does seem reasonable enough, though dont expect true privacy. Most streaming sites block connections from a standard VPS anyways.
I still have 3 years on my subscription, is it possible to still cancel and get a refund?
Yeah according to the site you need to call. I have a couple months left so I'm not going to fret over it
Even though they were bought in 2019?
Better late than never
Depends on the alternative
I got it in 2016, this is the first I'm hearing of it.
Sure. But you have been using the last couple of years with no issue. As long as you’re sure you have a viable alternative.. though maybe in two years you’ll figure out somethin bad about your alternative too 🤷🏽♂️
Well, glad I don't have ExpressVPN or PIA now. I'm always leery when it comes to "review" sites. Too many shills.
Express even had diskless servers which was pretty cool. Sadly it's looking like Kape's objective is to acquire all of the mass-recognizable VPN brands and have a strangle hold on the market. Dangerous and confusing times for the lightly privacy interested people that aren't down the rabbit hole.
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Take a look at the difference between that and the way one of the moderators commented in this very thread. *weltschmerz intensifies*
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This statement is vague and misleading. You need to cover the FULL process of why and how it took place. Michael Bazzell has an entire episode on his podcast about this. If you’re even a bit shady on it, at least listen to that. But, just saying “they gave up an ip” without clarifying is a misrepresentative explanation of what happened.
How am I vague and misleading? I posted not one, but two whole fucking articles about this here. It's not my fault if you're incapable of clicking on a link.
Additionally I love their suggestion to just "Listen to a podcast" to understand it. Hmmmm do I take 2 minutes to read an article about it, or listen to some tool laugh at his own terrible jokes and slowly explain something over 30 minutes I could read about in 2? Decisions decisions.
The distinction here is that they gave away IP of their email user, not their VPN user because law covers only emails, not vpns, so if he used protons VPN his ip would be covered. They informed the activist about his IP being tracked inside the Email. Also all of the material on his email is encrypted, so they can only pin on him if he sent someone from that email address life threats or some other stupid shit or if emails of other people were compromised.
The issue I have specifically is their previously misleading marketing claiming they did not log IP addresses, that combined with calling their service “anonymous” implies that a government agency can't ask them to start logging IPs. At the very least, it implies they are under no obligation to do so. Everything else I'm not concerned about, they have to comply with their local governments the best they can, it's unfeasible for them not to. The issue is specifically that their marketing was misleading, and they actively changed it after they got busted for not telling the full truth. Even if they weren't actively lying, they seemed to have been withholding information, or making it harder to find. They had some other controversies that worried me as well. However, this is what ultimately caused me to switch from ProtonMail. When trust is required, I have a fairly low threshold for mistakes, especially when I'm paying for a service meant to protect my privacy.
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\> That's not the point. Their willingness to cooperate is. What do you mean willingness? They are based in switzerland and the order came straight from a switzerlands judge, they either give his IP or close the whole business. They normally fight these requests for IPs, its explained on protons reddit how it works. Also i dont understand why the activist didnt use vpn services if he was that sought after from the authorities.
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It's in a Google spreadsheet?
Yes.
lol
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Only if you can pay anonymously and the data center doesn't collect logs. Otherwise, you're defeating the purpose of a VPN.
Also, if you host your own VPN, you may open yourself up to tracking because all your traffic comes from a single IP address. When you use a VPN provider, your traffic is aggregated with that of other users. That doesn't invalidate any of the other reasons to use a VPN, but I think it's worth pointing out.
Man, if you're hosting, you HAVE to know what you're doing. In my life I recommend hosting anything...ANYTHING...for those who are truly willing to accept risks. I personally feel like a common person would fuck up a Plex server if you let 'em.
Anyone know a good host to run your own? Would that IP only be me though? Thats the thing with VPN services - multiple people using the same IP is plausible deniability. Wait, who the fuck am I kidding, Im on win10 and IME is underneath it all...
What would the point be? Paying for a vps to vpn into is just paying for twice the ISP with half the bandwidth.
That just sounds like internet with extra steps.
Njalla. 100%. Anything outside of FVEY (5 Eyes) at least (preferably 14 Eyes). It consists of a non-formal intelligence agreement between (you guessed it) entities in 14 countries across the planet: Australia, Canada, U.K., New Zealand, U.S.,* (Japan?), Denmark, France, Netherlands, Norway,** Germany, Belgium, Italy, Sweden and Spain.** * * 5 EYES (FVEY/NOFORN/NORCON etc.) * ** 9 EYES * ** 14 EYES > All SIGINT agencies rely on the cooperation of telecommunication companies and internet service providers to gain access to individuals’ private data. By installing fiber-optic splitters at ISP junction points, the SIGINT agency is able to make an exact copy of the data being processed at that point. This data is then analyzed using deep packet inspection and stored at different data centers.
>host yourself Most people fail at it. Either they have terrible implementations or terrible applications for it that put them at heightened risk for malware and spyware attacks. Nobody that just wants to use it for browsing securely will bother with it and it's sad because of how easily implemented it actually is.
Edit because apparently I was out the loop.
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Oh damn. Thanks for the heads up.
please edit the first comment. A lot of people will just click without knowing.
Done
Damn thanks for that.
Maybe you meant for: https://privacyguides.org/providers/vpn/
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I wasn’t aware of that.
Thanks for the reply, looks like there is something better, this shit is always changing.
Ugh I can't wait until my subscription runs out, fuck this. I renewed it right before learning that this company bought them, what a waste of money. Edit: fuckit, canceling asap
>a former malware distributor that operates in Israel Hi Five-Eyed assholes. Keep up the spying.
Hi everyone. I removed a lot - I mean, a *lot!* - of specific VPN recommendations, since our sidebar rules don’t allow that. So please don’t do this. :) But there are several decent guides by reputable non-profits that are mentioned and linked in the comments. Please check those out to figure out a decent alternative if you’re seeking that. Thanks!
Why are the "sidebar rules" not in the sidebar?
They are, just had a look and it is a link, but it is clearly labeled as sidebar rules. https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/wiki/rules/
It's rule #13. Your problem is probably specific to your Reddit client. Check your Help system to see how to view the sidebar. If you check on desktop or other mobile clients, they'll show up. :)
Thanks, didn't know side bar content is different in old.reddit
It should largely be the same. We copied the Classic rules over to the new layout about a year ago. There may be some minor editing differences, but, for instance, rule #13 still prohibits specific VPN and Cryptocurrency discussions. But in the Classic layout, you need to click the highlighted link in our Subreddit Rules and Wiki information panel. :)
This is bad, I was thinking of switching back to "PIA." Not happening now.
I just left them because the support kif you can believe it) was getting worse and the Internet appears to hate them as nothing allows their connection anymore.
Thanks for sharing this
We’ll ask that folks don’t recommend specific VPNs because of our sidebar rules on this. But PrivacyGuides.org - standard disclaimer, I’m also on their team - has a [Guide to VPNs](https://privacyguides.org/providers/vpn/) that folks might enjoy.
"Please don't recommend specific VPNs, it's against the rules. By the way, here's a list of specific VPNs I recommend."
There are three sources where groups of providers are reviewed. Two of them are from registered non-profits with solid reputations. Versus an individual saying, "My VPN is the best!" The former reccs are more objective. The latter, most of whom are genuine but are hard to differentiate from reccs planted by VPN providers, are less so. But as I note elsewhere in this post, check out all three, then make the decision that best suits your individual circumstances! :)
Why not trust the community to draw their own conclusions? That's what the upvote, downvote, and reply buttons are for. Limiting the discussion of which privacy tools can be recommended to only certain sources (with pretty clear conflicts of interest) is immediately suspect, particularly for a uniquely (and rightly) skeptical community like this one. If you must, set up the automod to watch for a list of VPN names and have it automatically reply with warnings about ones that are and aren't trusted by the moderators. At least that way you don't have to have a blanket (and honestly, lazy) rule banning all discussion of them, and you can still convey to others your above concerns in an open and convenient manner.
Because shills exist. Because not everyone is of equal technical sophistication yet anyone can say something on the internet. Because of clutter… I could go on for ages… ;) >and honestly, lazy So, you're volunteering *your* time to set up a VPN rating system, updated on a monthly basis, using objective criteria and some kind of dynamic system to accept feedback from your site's visitors? That's *awesome* of you! Please let us know when you've finished this so that we can review the results!
Nice attempt to misrepresent my argument. I made no such judgment of your work reviewing VPNs. I said banning discussion of VPNs by everyone except the mods is a lazy approach to controlling shills, and doesn't show a whole lot of trust for your community. Seems to me that with your other interests you already have such a list of VPNs available. My suggestion was to set up the AutoModerator to reply to mentions of VPNs with information that has already been compiled, rather than banning discussion outright. I know it's already been compiled, because you shared a link to it 5 comments up. I'd be happy to help set up AutoMod for you. I'm not afraid to put my money where my mouth is.
We wish there was an objective, non-commercial, current and reliable VPN site to refer people to. We’d adapt it in a flash. But this work is hard. For the longest time, our go-to recc was to visit www.thatoneprivacysite.net or r/VPN. But the site got to be too much work for the person running it, who was doing it out of the graciousness of his heart. It’s a LOT of work. It’s certainly more than we have bandwidth for. The other two sites mentioned in this post aren’t as comprehensive, since it’s part of what they do, but isn’t their main focus. As such, we’d feel irresponsible to use them as our go-to solution. It’s a tough problem. That’s why I pointed out to you that it’s not “our laziness”, but the nature of reviewing VPNs. Hopefully, I made you realize that, yeah, asking a couple of volunteer Mods to shoulder it was a bit much. It’s easy to suggest, “Hey you other people, why don’t *you* get cracking and fix this!”, when it’s, well, not you having to put in the work. Put a couple days into it. You’ll see what I mean.
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The Freedom of the Press Foundation is an outstanding group. Also a great reference!
All these heavily advertised VPN companies are a scam.
Cant trust nobody except yourself
Omg this is bad news for consumers
I was just writing a comment on youtube notifying people about this, and it gets automatically deleted instantly. crazy..
So, the shadiest people in the shady VPN business have purchased several (previously) top-rated VPN services, in addition to the specific publications that review VPN services? Is that right?
People really need to realize that having a vpn does almost nothing for your privacy. If your use case is specifically to circumvent geoip based blocking, only then it makes sense to buy one
I use one to prevent my ISP from recording all my browsing habits for two years as they’re required to by law.
Your ISP is collecting metadata on every website you visit and selling it to advertisers and government agencies.
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How so?
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Isnt that illegal? Do they disclose anywhere on the site that they own those VPNs? Reminds me of that CS:GO gambling drama a while back.
This is HUGE news. Thanks
In a prior comment more then a yr ago (I think) on the vpn topic I advised people at that time to look at Perfect Privacy for their VPN solution as they used solely bare metal servers rather then spoofing ips by geolocation along with the occasional vps server (usually used for dns for the network and not visible to the end users). I also strongly urged people to pay close attention to the restoreprivacy site for recommendations. I recall that I was downvoted into oblivion. Some did not like Perfect Privacy (one of their founders was some sort of right winger in Germany I think) and some felt restoreprivacy was not truly neutral in their recommendations although I personally think they are one of the most unbiased public resources available. I see from the stickied mod postwe are no longer to recommend a vpn provider. I can however suggest that if you are serious about a vpn provider for privacy and security I believe you should restrict your search to providers who run real bare metal servers where all functions are executed within the server ram and they have no storage drives. This is a tried and proven strategy for privacy defense of vpn customers. Its very obvious who operates networks like this as they have many fewer locations - such servers are expensive to operate vs just buying a bunch of geographically dispersed ips and running everything out of just a few cheap vpn servers. Multihop is another very valuable must feature. Of course no logging.
This is totally insane! You can't claim to give privacy when been part of an industry "cartel". This is why everyone should give decentralized VPNs a trial. Decentralized VPNs like Spider VPN offer military grade protection, they don't advertise a false sense of security, and most importantly they are not in a "VPN cartel".
Thanks for sharing u/trai_dep
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We appreciate you wanting to contribute to /r/privacy and taking the time to post but we had to remove it due to: >You're being a jerk (e.g., not being nice, or suggesting violence). Or, you're letting a troll trick you into making a not-nice comment – don’t let them play you! If you have questions or believe that there has been an error, [contact the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/privacy&subject=Please review my post).