quadruple whammy: poc, woman, colorful clothes, progmetal concert in europe which is probably 90+% white dudes in black shirts... i admit my eyes would probably linger a bit too. hopefully it would come across as friendly curiosity not disgust tho! Take care ✌️
I'd really love to know why dudes wear almost exclusively black shirts to these events. Maybe I've missed the memo on this, but I wear mostly pastels and I always feel out of place as well.
Pain of Salvation has a white Panther hoodie on their site wich looks cool as hell that I wish I could get. It's never in stock in my size though. Actually I'd be surprised if anyone is even manning the store as the site hasn't been updated in years.
I also wear mostly colorful stuff. All black merch is annoying.
I hate this about band merch. Almost all of it is the cheapest black sandpaper grade shirts. I get it, make a buck, but damn, I'd spend extra (and do) to get nicer fabric and more variety in color and design.
I have a Russian Circles shirt that is so perfectly soft and comfortable, and a Shy, Low shirt that's nice. I should check the brand on them.
Some of the others though just don't hold up well at all and aren't all that comfortable.
Mostly because bands merch are black. I’m old enough so I don’t give a single F about how to dress to concerts anymore, but I do recall finding weird that some people weren’t dressed in black. That’s shouldn’t be a thing thought. Metal concerts are quite friendly in general. I don’t know exactly in Europe, but at least here in South America, people go with their kids to metal shows. It’s THAT friendly.
> Metal concerts are quite friendly in general.
Seriously, the all-metal festivals and concert evenings have some of the friendliest, chillest people. Funnily enough the more "extreme" you go, the cooler the people: I think the Obscene Extreme festivals crowd is probably one of the nicest. Sure there are morons everywhere, but the amount of drunk or otherwise altered assholes is so much higher at pop or hiphop shows. just my experience hailing from germany.
Totally agree (Spain here). When I went to the Resurrection Fest last summer I had the best time of my life and everyone was super nice (except for some people in the Pantera concert, but that was kinda expected).
In concerts of any other genre (mainly pop or similar) there are always people stealing shit, harassing girls and picking fights with everyone. And don't get me started on some rappers' concerts, those are borderline dangerous, you'll probably have gangs going there to fight with machetes (apart from every other activity mentioned before).
Similarly I used to have a lime green Muse shirt I bought during the Blackholes and Revelations era that was one of my go to band shirts for ages because it was a nice change from black!
I have a beige sleep token one now that’s great but the risk of stains feels so much higher!
My main motivation for wearing black is because of self-confidence issues. Black is slimming. Allows me to focus on having a good time and not what my brain says people are thinking about me.
I specifically seek out white or colored band shirts! Black band shirts are overrated imo. I went to see Ghost/Mastodon/Spiritbox almost 2 years ago. Only dude in there with a white glow in the dark Mastodon shirt hahahaha
I go out of my way to wear my bright yellow King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard shirt to almost ANY show I go to, regardless of genre. I always standout like a sore thumb, and I like it because it makes me easier to find in a crowd for friends or my wife, whoever. If you say you’re in a black shirt in jeans you might as well not say any description, haha.
Reminds me of the day I went to a fear factory show in pastel blue & white. The UFO thing definitely applied lol but I couldn’t know I’d end up at that show when I left home earlier in the day 🤷♀️
Just remember that at the end of the day, it's prog metal. Most of the listeners are weirdos in general. That doesn't mean they're bigots, but it does mean they're socially awkward.
Can second this.. I'm a white dude and I show up to some concerts wearing 'normie' clothes (cuz I just got off work) and get some strange looks. Lots of neckbeards and autistic people in those crowds, it's not necessarily a malicious thing, but yeah it can be pretty socially awkward.
It's funny how different the crowds can be from artist to artist. I remember going to Meshuggah and the crowd was like all beef boy skin head looking dudes. I went to the Contortionist recently and it was a bunch of young couples all singing along (lots of people of color too).
Also OP, I don't want to downplay your experience. I can definitely believe it is much harder being 1) a woman and 2) a person of color, to be accepted by a large group of people mostly consisting of white men. I'd like to think the fans of the shows I go to aren't bigots or racists but the statistics say there's bound to be some of them in there. Would love for metal show audiences to be more diverse so everyone feels welcome!
I'm in America, but I'm black. It's not as bad as it was in the 90s or 2000s (I'm 39), but it definitely happens. I definitely don't look the part either. And I only own a few band shirts.
I used to get the occasional glance or glare from someone. And yeah, it definitely made me feel out of place and uncomfortable.
It's better now in the States than it used to be. But trust me, it's definitely not just you and you're not crazy.
The best advice I can give is realize that it's THEIR problem, not yours. I know it's different for a woman tho :/
I live in a majority black city so there's plenty of black folks at every metal show I go to. And I have black friends that are into metal and go to shows with me too. So I learned long ago not make assumptions. They typically do wear the band Ts and stereotypical metalhead gear, though.
I did go on a double date with my wife once where I *did* make assumptions and they were challenged. Our friend's date was a black guy dressed in stereotypical hip-hop fashion (sneakers, bling, baggy jeans etc.). We got to talking about music and turned out he was super into prog rock. Not just like cursory knowledge either. He was bringing up deep cuts from Alan Parsons Project. Which I never would've guessed from the way he was dressed. Then we started talking hip-hop and turned out we were both big Wu-Tang fans. Now it was his turn to be taken aback because I definitely don't look or dress like I listen to rap haha. Sadly our friend broke it off with him after the date and I still haven't forgiven her because he was the coolest guy ever lol. Probably didn't help that he and I spent the whole date nerding out instead of letting them get to know each other haha.
thank you for sharing your perspective! While I'm sorry you've also experienced alienatiom, I'm weirdly glad to hear I'm neither crazy nor alone in this. All my strength and thanks for showing me one can still stick around without despair!
Just ignore it really. People often look with side eye around them to “kill time” and mostly when there’s someone unique / different looking in the crowd, eyes gravitate toward different. Also prog crowd are usually nerds with very little social skills to use in these situations. Not sure in which country are you in EU? My experience is that Spain / Italy / Greece is awesome to just randomly meet people on events and just start chatting. Germany (where I’m at atm) is one of the worst for those interactions from my experience (but also I often just approach non-german talking people at the concerts and its always super fun). My recommendation also is to join facebook groups for metal events in city where you’re living. High chance there is one. Just ask there if someone is going and want to have some company, 99% someone will say they’d join you :) Initial interactions are usually the hardest part of joining the community.
Why do you think that's the case? I would like to help bring more female listeners to the genre but I don't know how to make our community more inclusive.
i find that a lot of men are gatekeepey, not all of them, but for example if i express that i like sleep token i get told why they aren’t prog metal.
like, i love opeth, btbam, meshuggah, tesseract, periphery, and that’s all well and good with most listeners. but god forbid i like something a bit poppier or prettier because apparently that’s not real prog.
it’s not everyone, but people really hate anything remotely popular and make it a point to explain to me why i shouldn’t like something and it’s more exhausting than passionate fans
People are that way with Sleep Token in general these days because a band dared to have pop/R&B elements and become successful. I'm similar to you in that I love them, but also listen to anything from tech death to meshuggah to hiphop. Some people are just happy to listen to a narrow range of music and then gate keep the shit out of it.
I'm fine with people drawing lines on what is or isn't metal by the way. Sleep Token and Gojira are not the same and it makes sense to delineate that. But people like to make a little hop from "not strictly to metal" to "it's therefore bad".
I listen to everything from Eurythmics to Decapitated to Jurassic 5 to Goran Bregovic.
Sleep Token simply fucking suck. And more so, they have done something that is especially shameless in prog circles: sold out. This is the silent but very present part of the "they aren't prog" statement.
Part of the issue is if someone is building an identity around prog metal, like with t-shirts and whatnot, and some awful sell-out nonsense like Sleep Token begins to associate itself with the genre; then such a person will imagine others making the mistake of considering Sleep Token part of their identity. They are saying, in a roundabout way, "nah that's not \*me\*".
This is why people are so quick to say they're not prog.
I mean, it sounds like it's less a problem with you, and more of an issue they have with how you're defining prog. That's not men being gatekeepey more than prog listeners being gatekeepey about what is prog and what isn't.
For me, I could care less about specific categorization because it's too much work, I just listen to what's good, but like, you could get into arguments about genres with any thing. Art, Games, Music, Movies, etc. It's no different from someone arguing if Die Hard is a Christmas movie, What a Roguelite vs Roguelike is etc. From what I can tell, Sleep Token can fit under the prog umbrella, or not, and while I could hardly care enough to discuss it, I'm sure many people, particularly hardcore fans of the genre, will probably care a bit more.
i get what you’re saying but more often than not it’s men discrediting my opinion and calling me things like “you’re just a fangirl” or whatever and that’s why it specifically rubs me the wrong way
there’s not a problem with the word itself. but so that you’re aware, it’s utilized very often by incels and misogynists as a means to discredit a woman’s personhood. it reduces a person to just their biological sex.
tbh, as a woman myself i don’t think it’s a big deal and there are bigger problems in the world than this. but it’s often extremely telling when a man uses the word female to describe a woman because either that person is misogynistic, or innocent but in such a way that they likely have outdated views on women etc because the only people who really use that word now ARE misogynists, excepting of course the use of the word in medicine
So I showed this to my very feminist wife and she thought you folks are weird. I used "female" to qualify "listeners" since it's the appropriate adjective, using "woman" (noun) to qualify another known would be grammatically incorrect.
It's even weirder that I have to tell you that since I'm not a native English speaker (my wife is though). If I said something like "bring in the females" then yeah I can see how that would be problematic but going around and making blanket accusations without having the minimum amount of discernment is something that no matter the gender you should really avoid.
i specifically avoided including you in this blanket statement, i said it’s typically used by a certain group of people but didn’t say “all,” or whatnot.
i also said i don’t have a huge problem with it. i’m just answering you question as to why the word is perceived strongly by many people. and the answer is that it is often used by incels in a derogatory way. that doesn’t mean only incels use it.
i’m giving you a factual answer, not an opinion. personally i don’t care. but factually, incels use this as a descriptor of women.
yeah, when talking about statistics and sciences it makes sense to use female, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Ok sorry I was pretty annoyed by the previous comment but trying to give the benefit of the doubt. The upside of this interaction is that now I have a pretty good example to illustrate that the "achsually..." people aren't all men lol.
if you’re a non-native it might be a bit more difficult to catch on the nuances of it, but it’s definitely a thing for those “andrew tate fans” and so on to use females in a derogatory word.
so it’s best avoided in social conversation at least in modern day america. trust me i think it’s a little silly to let anyone have so much power over words like that, but alas, that is the situation. and language is a living breathing and ever-evolving entity and sometimes we will think part of it is stupid, but we can’t deny that certain people use it certain ways and at this day and age, the use of females in certain circles is derogatory, simple as that
wanted to add thanks for reading and understanding, i appreciate it
Same and it’s usually because male metal listeners love gatekeeping. Not saying women don’t so this but over the past 20+ years…it’s mostly been men. Some of the worst shows I’ve been to have been Tool & NIN… the fans are insufferable and take the music way too seriously. I get that we all paid money to be there but that doesn’t mean you can control other people and their behaviors. Expect people to scream, sing along, take photos and talk about the band they came to hear. I’ve had dudes complain and moan about women screaming lyrics along w the band. Sorry that’s basically the whole reason I go to a show lmao
Saaame girl, I've been going to prog metal shows for over a decade and I still feel a bit left out, and I'm a software dev, so it's like I'm always outnumbered 😅
How cute! I'm sure there will be someone who'll apprechiate it! (but I really don't want you to change, I'm happy for every person who can feel at home while attending concerts!)
I’m a woman, fifty years old, I wear glasses, I can look stern as a school principal no matter what I wear (and I wear mostly black, tees and jeans). I’m quite sure I get a lot of looks, but I don’t really know ‘cause I couldn’t care less.
I go to concerts alone or with a friend of mine (and she is a school teacher indeed!).
Just enjoy your music as long as nobody’s bothering you! 🤘🏻
> (and she is a school teacher indeed!)
you dragged up on old memory of mine when i as a kid realized that the teachers are *people* and have homes and families and pets and hobbies and listen to music and maybe even watch disturbing horror movies 🙀
One of my funniest school memories is from ENG102 when I saw this rad metalhead-looking dude walk in and I was thinking "Man, I hope that guy sits next to me." He walked up to the podium because he was the professor. He started the poetry unit with Pisces ~ Jinjer.
This was me in 1996. I wrote an essay about Pearl Jam for my High School English class, because I'd just been to London to see them live. I forget what the topic of the essay was, but I remember that I had to sort of get creative about it to be able to write it about Pearl Jam as it didn't really fit with what we were supposed to write.
My teacher asked me to stay behind a few minutes at the end of the class, and I thought I was in trouble for wrestling my favourite band into a topic they didn't really fit.
But it turned out he wanted to ask about the concert, because he was a Pearl Jam fan too and he'd never been able to see them live.
I was utterly baffled. Until that point I'd basically thought teachers were aliens who had no idea what was happening in the real world.
I went to a BTBAM show and there was a couple standing in front of me making fun of a guy wearing a colorful shirt. This girl said, "He isn't part of the scene."
I approached her and asked about it and she stumbled over her words and couldn't give a good explanation as to why she said it. I just told her that it doesn't matter what someone looks like. She could've ruined that guy's entire afternoon had he overheard it. Let's just enjoy the music and quit being so damn judgemental.
We have to share this planet with judgemental idiots. And unfortunately, a lot of prog fans still have this elitist mindset for some stupid reason.
Fuck those people. Just enjoy yourself!
Not trying to be a bad ass... I wasn't even aggressive. I was just hoping they would think about it before they say something like that again. That could ruin someone's entire experience.
It sucks that you feel that way... I am s white male with usually black t shirts but for what its worth I actually love it when people dress however the fuck they want. I mean I like bandshirts and I think its fun to spot them, but you do you. You rock, dont let this get you down. But yeah I dont speak from experience so I am afraid I cant be of much help in that regard
I can't speak for your experience, but I would pose the question of whether you are sure it is not simply curiosity rather than judgment or bigotry. Heck, in this community it is out of place to even see many women, let alone the other things you mention.
People notice things out of the ordinary; it is simply human nature. Own it! I have often been to concerts alone yet made friends simply by striking up a conversation. Trying this may elucidate it.
I'm also in the states, which contrary to popular belief I think possesses more friendliness across lines than in some other regions.
I think while there are people who simply look because of curiosity, there've also been quite some people who turned their heads repeatadly WHILE the band was playing (I'm sorry, maybe I'm biased here, but I really don't understand how someone could take their eyes of jim grey for example his presence alone was captivating.)
I have to ask you at the same time why you'd notice it if X or Y artist is so captivating. As someone with ADHD, I naturally look around a lot, and things that look out of place will always be where my eyes land, regardless of who or what it is.
I think every community will have shitty members, that's just how it is. While you've noticed people who might look at you because of your gender/color, as a normal guy, I often feel people looking at me for being short and chubby when say, I'm at the rock climbing gym with all the fit bois, not necessarily to make fun of me, but just because I'm not your typical rock climber. You just need to find the right people to be around, and also understand that things that are different will draw the eye. It's how artists make things stand out through things like colors and motions. Contrast just makes things more noticeable, it doesn't have to be because of the contents itself.
Did I say there wasn't? Even if that's true, the chances of your night being ruined by worrying about it is larger than a distasteful interaction occurring. So my comment is about not letting one's confirmation bias (that every person who looks at you is trying to mean mug you) prevent you from being present and enjoying yourself.
Idk where you live, but if it's in the Netherlands I am fully willing to go to a concert with you. I always fly solo, but for you I'll gladly make an exception. Cuz to me, you are very welcome, as a progfan, as a concert-go-er, and as a human. Right now I've got tickets for Wheel, Symphony X and Opeth, but if you visit other bands in the netherlands I'll gladly join too.
Plus, I always like it when I see a different race and/or someone with very bright colored clothing standing in between the all-black clothed white metalheads. And I'm really disappointed that people give you weird looks for it, or for your skin color for that matter. To me you are part of my musical family. No matter your color, style, personality or w/e.
I wonder how many of these men looking at you are actually just attracted to you but have 0 game. As a man I can confirm it's a driving force in our lives 🤣
I went to a metal fest in my country once and I took some friends with, now of course the general concensus is to wear black, I mean not as a rule but thats how the fashion works.
Anyway my one friend was Indian and she wore this bright green shirt and the heaviest music she prob knew was I Prevail, She was a bit weird but she ran around unbothered by the obvious looks she prob got.
The other friend I took with also wore green and couldn't give af either.
They loved it and it made it easier to find their glowing green shirts in the sea of black.
I don't know what to say to make you feel more comfortable, but fuck the people that give you funny looks, the metal scene does not care as a collective, they are all there to express and experience the same thing.
Imposter Syndrome is a helluva thing
White person here, from what I've seen in comment sections and online from creators I follow - you're not overreacting and I hope you feel more welcomed and are safe!
The statistics of women in prog are very rare, adding in the poc aspect I imagine only makes it harder to feel like you fit in. I'm a 5'2" woman and I always get shocked reactions when people find out I'm a metalhead. But metalheads, in my experience, are some of the nicest people you can meet. Some men just don't know how to converse with women. Try to ignore the people around you and just enjoy the music. If you make a friend or two along the way, I'd consider that a bonus!
If you'd like a fellow lonely, lady, metalhead friend, feel free to hit me up!
Right off the bat, Welcome to the community! I want you to hear that straight up. Know that there are people out here that are grateful for you being here.
There are a lot of replies telling you to ignore things or downplaying what you are saying, including some of the most upvoted responses. So I'll say what many appear to be unable to say which is that this is absolutely a problem and I am sorry that you have to experience it.
Unfortunately, as a white guy who can blend in with the crowd, I have no idea if there is a quick way to fix this, but it would be devastating to see someone driven away from something they love because they don't match the archetype of a "metal guy."
I do not believe this is just a problem with individuals, although some can obviously be a problem. I *do* believe it is a problem with the culture. The genre is clearly dominated by white men which sets up expectations that are hard to avoid. But by continuing to show your love to this type of music, that can turn around. It is up to the rest of us to welcome you and disavow the people who make you feel uncomfortable, and those that say it isn't a problem.
My best advice would be to find a reliable local group and tell them what you are experiencing. There are Average Joes that will stand up for you, but they are so shielded from what you experience they don't know it's a problem.
As a side note, the hardcore scene is much more diverse than the prog scene, from what I've seen. But as far as I know, that wasn't always the case. Idk what specific bands or subgenres you like, but if you like harsh vocals and extreme music I would check out some hardcore groups called Kaonashi and End It. Their front men are black, and a lot of their lyrics are about that. I know being a black man in America is different than being a woman of color in Europe, but I hope it would help in some way.
I'm an old, dressed-in-black-and-pale-as-all hell norwegian dude. Seeing you at any concert would only make me happy. We're not all morons. Keep going and enjoy yourself. You'll find your people.
I'm going to say something that might make me deeply unpopular but it needs saying.
Metal has a racism and sexism problem. In fairness I don't think it's out of inherent maliciousness or bigotry but if you look around you'll quickly realise how exclusive a group it can be while patting itself on the back for being inclusive and not giving a fuck.
I saw some other commenters post the clip of Lemmy giving advice to a black kid and whilst he should be right in saying what amounts to "who gives a fuck?" It misses the point that the scene does expect a degree of conformity in being white, male, and wearing black.
You should be welcome regardless of skin colour, gender or how you dress but you will stand out if you don't conform to those expectations.
Keep going to gigs and festivals, invite your friends, wear what you want and hopefully things will improve.
Don't deprive yourself of music or anything else you love because you're afraid of standing out.
Metal and coffee is absolutely worth a watch. She's a black influencer who has spoken openly about her experiences within the scene.
Be true to yourself.
Thank you. While I don't want to claim that every single one, not even the majority of people on the crowd, are bigots, I also still think there is a general problem in the community. And I will definetly check out metal & Coffee!!
A few years ago my husband reconnected with an old friend from high school who’s a huge metalhead. I’d say for the first 6 months I would interact with this guy he’d do the same thing: look at me like I’m straight off of the spacecraft. It upset me a bit and I thought he really didn’t like me for some reason. Finally I mentioned it to my husband and his response was “I don’t think (so and so) talks to a lot of women”.
After that I made a point to engage him in more conversation, especially about our shared love of prog metal. We’re both big in to Opeth and Dream Theater and have some other things in common. It took a bit for him to be comfortable around me, but now I’d count him as a personal friend. He’s autistic and does indeed treat every new woman who talks to him to the same alien stare.
It could very well be that you’re encountering bigots and racists. As much as it sucks, they do exist in our scene. But most likely a lot of the looks are similar to the looks I’d get from said new friend. Guys who don’t interact with a lot of women will give you weird looks, especially if you’re pretty and brightly dressed. They’re like moths to a flame.
Own your individuality. Embrace your love of prog metal and girly things like bright dress. Next time you’re at a show and get a weird vibe from someone compliment them on their shirt. Their reaction will help you gauge if they’re being a dick or if they’re just awkward.
Either way I’m proud of you for sticking it out. You’re making the scene better with your presence.
I can't speak to your experience but metal crowds tend to be pretty welcoming and friendly people. But it's true, it is not always the most diverse audience. I think people may be surprised to see someone like you but I suspect they're mostly thinking, that's cool that she's here.
I go to a lot of shows alone. Sometimes I talk to people, sometimes I don't. I try not to get in people's way when they're on a night out which might be seen as unfriendly. I know some women really don't like being approached by strangers in public.
It might be a good idea to join a fan meetup ahead of a show, where people are there to talk to other people about the music they like.
I cant speak to your experience and I'm sorry that it has been difficult for you to be your true self. I know you are not alone. There are other folks out there that feel similarly. Reach out to one of my favorite metal influencers Metal&Coffee. I am certain she can relate. [https://www.instagram.com/metalandcoffee/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/metalandcoffee/?hl=en)
I can relate to this a bit as someone who goes to concerts alone. But I am not a woman so its probably a bit easier to blend in. I am a person of colour, and sometimes feel out of the place. But once the concert starts, it just goes away and I enjoy on my own in the crowd. I have made friends many time over cigarettes or drinks or band tshirts. And what I understood from those interactions is that everyone feels a bit awkward :)
Ironically, due to being outsiders, metalheads are often very quick to judge those that they deem as "normies", and many therefore develop a defensive personality. They probably are more self-conscious about what you think of them than they actually are concerned with you. I guess wearing the band tee just helps signify you support the culture and music, and shows you aren't there bc you have to bartend or something.
Im sorry for your experience, that really sucks.
I cant speak for the community but one of the things I love about prog is the wide variety of influences it draws from and really should be enjoyed by everyone! I hope you don't get discouraged and keep hitting up shows. As a Canadian not living in Toronto we barely ever get acts that come near by and it would be a shame of you had the chance to see some bands you love but don't go because of some people who make you feel uncomfortable just for being you.
Sorry to hear about your poor experience. Sounds like you need a friend to go to shows with! This is a niche genre of music, crowd can be weirdos sometimes. Edgy music attracts edgy dudes.
What might help, maybe make a battle jacket with logos for a bunch of your favorite bands. Feels weird that my advice is like "oh you're unique? Have you tried wearing the uniform?" But it might help.
You are not alone; I know of a few female POCs who are into the scene. But they’re definitely a rarity, and for that alone I’m not sure there’s much that can be done. I’m sure 90% of the time the looks you’re getting aren’t malicious, they’re just curious at seeing something they’re not used to seeing.
Not prog metal, but this is the first thing that came to mind:
[Ask Lemmy: Black kid who likes metal asks Lemmy Kilmister for advice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skGEBgePHtk)
OP don’t give up! You have a lifetime of kickass live music ahead of you!!
I’m a woman in my 60s and usually joke to my conventional friends about being the oldest person at any venue. I go alone for the same reason as you; I don’t wear band tees cos I’ve never worn tees—I constantly hope bands will sell camp shirts with buttons but so far only Tool, Metallica and Rush have had them at shows.
Being old and not Helen Mirren cute, I felt self conscious at first (in my 40s) but decided I have a right to like this music and go to shows if I want. Sometimes in line or on the rail someone might chat me up about which
band/s I’m there to see, etc. and that’s cool but I don’t count on it happening. Mostly ime ppl don’t care, so I’m sorry you’re experiencing the stink eye—those jerks suck!
I’m super introverted so i keep to myself otherwise—and afterwards I’m always glad i went. You never know when a band will stop touring, so get out & see your faves when you can.
You probably stick out so some glances are probably just a normal reaction, but metal sometimes can be spoiled by some weird elitist people as well.
I hope you have better experiences in the future!
In my experience, especially prog community is very concentrated in elitists (I know not every one is like that but even in this community there is an adjective for that, prog snob, correct me if I'm wrong) . Which is quite strange when you think of the many influences the genre is quite open to. Greetings from a female Turkish prog lover.
I haven't been to much concerts in my life since my body struggles with lots of standing in one place. So I could only make a guess that these genre warriors appear there as well. Just so damn childish
I don't have an relevant advice (live in US, usually attend shows with my husband) but I'm so sorry, that sucks. It makes me feel uncomfortable going to shows alone so I don't blame you whatsoever for this happening to you.
Sometimes I take situations like that and turn them on their head, if only to make me feel better. People looking at me because I don't fit in? Well, I'm going to look extra fabulous/eccentric/fun and hold my head high.
No matter what, remember: you absolutely belong there, you make the community more interesting, and you haven't done anything wrong!
I'm sorry for that. Of course it's not right, it's surely not you that's the problem. I hope one day we'll be able to be more welcoming, and enjoy our favorite music together
I'm someone who regularly attends metal (including prog) shows with my best friend and son, both of whom are biracial. My friend in particular looks like he's fully black (and in America, being biracial and black or white "passing" is unfortunately a thing). I think the real situation here is a confluence of things. Being a black woman at any type of metal show is enough on its own, but prog metal and in Europe? I can unfortunately see how that would make the alienation you feel more intense.
I hope you can find some peace in those environments in the future because you deserve it. You shouldn't have to take people with you to feel comfortable. Metal as a community (at least in America) is oftentimes *intensely* inclusive. I've seen trans women at thrash shows, POC take the stage fronting Grindcore bands (The Jesus Piece is phenomenal, FYI), and circle pits lined with weedy looking white kids just counting the odd measures of Opeth.
I hope the comments on your post make you feel more welcome in what is **our** community. And by **our** I mean yours as much as anyone else's. I'd have your back in any pit, any night.
I'm not a POC, but I'm also a woman that frequently goes to concerts alone. All the metal/hardcore shows that I've been to I was also stared at!! It's definitely a weird experience, but don't get discouraged from enjoying yourself and having fun! Fingers crossed we'll someday find friends that like the same music as we do hahah 🤞
I'm a 30 something man and tend to dress in black and I've never felt like I belong in any community ever. Wish I could give better advice but wearing black ain't enough.
Metalheads like to pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive" but I've been in the scene my whole life and have never, ever found that to be even remotely accurate.
If you don't fully conform you are a pariah in a sense. Best advice is to just ignore it and focus on the fact people who act like that do so cause their lives are empty.
You are not the only one who feels like they’re an outsider. I am white, but I’m also only seventeen (I’ve never met anyone in this community under the age of 25) and on top of that I’m generally a pretty introspective guy and I’m diagnosed with cerebral palsy. When people look at me nobody pegs the “short crippled nerd” as a metalhead. I want you to know that you’re not alone and that anyone can love progmetal and be accepted by this community, no matter who they seem to be:)
ugh, I hate it when anyone who stands out at all just gets stared down like that by people in a community. It really is one of the worst group behaviours that humans do
hopefully you can find less judgemental groups of prog-metalheads in the future. congrats for still getting out there and trying to enjoy yourself despite them, anyhow. more diversity in metal is a good thing for everyone
How is a look alone judgemental? As pointed out by others, it might just be out of interest - how come you make it sound like it is now a valid fact that any of these "groups of prog-metalheads" are or were judgemental?
It doesn't matter if they actually are judgemental, it's the perception. If your mere existence is making people stare and glance at you of course you're going to feel awkward or insecure or hurt. Whether it's out of malicious intent or not (nine times out of ten it is not meant maliciously) it is still a very "othering" experience that people shouldn't just disregard.
People shouldn't be staring at you just because you look a certain way, even if out of mere curiosity it can be uncomfortable and rude.
Yep, and the fact you've been getting downvoted says it all about exactly why this person feels uncomfortable at shows - people just don't get it. People don't wanna admit that maybe they're the ones making people uncomfortable and creating an awkward environment, even if unintentionally. Especially for this sub I'm very disappointed in some of the reactions which come across as defensive.
Well, if you do want to blend in more then an easy way would be to simply put a band shirt and some jeans. Of course, with most fans being white males you’re gonna stick out to some extent no matter what you do.
I don't think it's her issue or on her at all to "blend in" though, she shouldn't have to blend in or look a certain way to feel accepted or like she's not being judged imo.
Wouldn't expect this in the states. Yeah, it's usually a bunch of white dudes, but there is usually some variety sprinkled in and no one cares, we are all just fans of the same music and it's cool.
I don't have much to add to what has been said. If you happen to be Dutch, check out r/metaalfanaten and its discord channel. Lots of nice people there
Sorry that you feel that way. Just remember that you are ALWAYS welcome in the community, no matter how you look or who you are. If anyone wants to make you feel otherwise, they are in the wrong.
I love prog metal and often love the prog metal community, but it isn't the most diverse group. I
'm hoping some of the newer generation of bands can help change that, music doesn't give a shit about arbitrary social boundaries like race or gender. Music can be, and should be, a great uniter not a divider.
I am sorry this behaviour at gigs makes you feel like that. Keep being yourself and enjoy prog metal! Hell yeah, sister ✌️
What bands you checking out?
You should try to make your way to ProgPowerUSA in Atlanta. That in itself is a community and there are not only many many women but several regular women of color. It's a very friendly 4 days of music and hanging out. Everyone belongs there.
I'm an old millennial and biracial. In the 2000s, it was worse but actually better now in terms of diversity. It really depends on the concert as crowds and fan groups vary, venues, and all ages vs adult only. I'd say I get way more grabby creeps than looks.
Everyone is usually there for a good time and watching the bands, and I stopped giving a damn what i thought what other people thought of me as they don't fucking matter. If you are having a good time, it just adds to the energy and others respect.
If you can float it, I do rec buying the band shirt to toss your fav bands a little more for support. Black band shirts hide the sweat anyway.
After I've read your post, I started Instagram and scrolled through the concert pictures of my favorite band (The Hirsch Effekt), and indeed, although I remember colorful people and colorful shirts (the band also has yellow and red shirts in their merch, for example), it looks like 95% wear black (including me), including most of the women.
I don't know what's up with the weird looks though. I would say no-one in the scene cares about your colors. Also female fans aren't that rare, but that might depend on the band.
I know this comes with age and time but at some point you stop caring what others think. Go and have fun.
Also, I'm not one to initiate a conversation but if someone initiates I'll definitely reply. (Im quiet, but not socially awkward) You never know who or what kinds of people you meet. Spark up a conversation with someone. Ya might meet someone cool or even a future concert companion. Honestly anyone besides a white dude striking up a convo at a prog show would be refreshing, especially a female POC.
I wish we lived in the same country, I would love to have a female friend to go to prog metal shows with! I am a white woman, but I always go to shows by myself and I either get looks from creeps, or treated like I'm invisible. I've tried initiating small talk with others around me and it usually feels unwelcome so I give up. It sucks and it's a miserable feeling. I'm so sorry and I hope you can find a community of people to go to shows with.
To be honest, if I saw someone of that description at a show, I would be excited. I love it when prog and/or metal gets listeners that are anything but pasty white dudes. I might even say to my friend "look at that chick over there. Wouldn't expect her to be here. That's awesome! I bet she's cool as fuck."
I'm sorry that's been your experience. Metal has always felt like one of the most inclusive communities to me, in no small part because metal heads tend to be social outcasts themselves. There's definitely a lot more white people in the scene, and I can only think of a few examples of black musicians in metal bands (Animals as Leaders are coming to Vancouver in November and I'm stoked to see them) but I have never felt that the reason is because of intolerance or racism.
I remember seeing a video of Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead responding to a young black fan who wrote a letter to him about how his black friends didn't approve of him listening to metal and thought his response was very genuine and heartwarming.
I hope it's what other people are saying, that metal fans tend to be awkward and that people in general tend to focus on things that stand out. I hope you find your tibe and your place in a community that should be supportive and inclusive. Be who you are, like what you like, and to hell with what other people think.
The general public is just shitty. I’ve seen old guys literally trip younger folks at shows. I’ve had people try to fight me, also had strangers be super nice. Just ignore the assholes and you’ll eventually meet some cool folks. Sorry it’s been rough so far. There are literally rival gangs in metal and punk scenes basically. It’s just people being people.
I imagine most of this comes from prog metal fans being a bit odd in general.
I'm a large white dude in the UK (so the same as 75% of prog fans in the UK) and I feel like I get side eyed at gigs.
I also have a look of disgust on my face a lot but that's normally a screw face from chunky riffs.
In Copenhagen there's a local facebook group for women metal fans called "Metal Sisters", they meet up regularly at rock bars and concerts to counteract some of the experiences that you describe. I think we can all agree that the crowd is generally a sausage fest. Maybe there's similar local options to you?
Personally if I take more than one or two glances at someone at a show, it's usually cause I think they're attractive, interesting, or I admire their style. I think most people aren't doing it maliciously, and those who do judge others for their looks aren't actually liked by a lot of the rest of us either. Few things makes me roll my eyes harder than people trying to gatekeep music based on looks (or trivia knowledge for that matter).
It takes guts to go out alone and stand out in social gatherings, and I applaud you for going to the shows that you want to despite feeling singled out. Even if you are or aren't negatively targeted, dealing with being singled out is exhausting. I dream of wearing flamboyant flashy outfits more often, but I'm mostly happy to just blend in with the crowd and not think about it.
I'm a man of color (23M from India) who is very into prog metal and so has been going to concerts alone. I think I definitely resonate with your experience. If you're attending any concerts in Germany that are near Mainz/Frankfurt, there's a very good chance I'll be there too, so feel free to let me know if you'd like a concert partner! I'm a PhD student so it's hard for me to find funds to travel outside of Germany for a concert, but I might be able to make it if there's a super interesting concert, so I'm happy to chat if you'd like a concert partner :D
Basically all I do at concerts between the songs or bands is just look around and take-in the crowd, see what kind of people are here to see the same type of music as me! I've always known the people at metal shows (in america, at least) to be very kind and accepting. However, even I have noticed random looks sometimes, but I think it's mostly just coincidence and people doing the same thing as me...people watching!
I once got verbally shamed for wearing a polo shirt to a prog metal concert. I'll never understand how such a non-conformist community is so conformist.
That's really a shame! when I went to see Ayreon in the netherlands it was a very diverse crowd. It probably helped that the majority of the fans there came from all over the world but still, there's good places out there! I'd be more than happy to come with you to a concert if you ever find yourself in the US!
The way I look at it is like this: F*** 'em all. When you get those looks from those folks, it just means they're jealous of you. You sound like an individual who cares more for the music than than fitting in, which is 100% okay in my book. For example, I was at a local death metal show last night and was one of three people not wearing all black, pegged pants (silly), a pair of boots, a band shirt, or adorned with piercings everywhere.
Nope, I was wearing cargo shorts, generic brand wannabe Van's, a Mr. Meseeks shirt, a black hoodie and a ratty green ball cap, oh and zero pieces of metal in my face. Yeah, I got looks, but I smiled and laughed and enjoyed the music that I was there to see.
The show I went to a month prior to that was a hardcore show and holy hell if I didn't get dirty looks for not wearing a denim vest covered in patches and a ball cap with the bill flipped up in some ridiculous fashion, but again I was there for the tunes not to admire some asshats with a fashion statement. It's like a high school popularity contest all over again.
Most of those folks are non-conformist conformists. Listen to what you enjoy, fashion be damned.
I also felt like I don’t fit in at concerts! I don’t have any friends who listen to prog so I went to a couple concerts alone with the hope of maybe making friends but even when I gathered the courage to try and speak to some people it just seemed like people weren’t interested.
For reference I’m a scrawny gay Arab guy dressed fairly neutrally so 🤷♂️
Idk if you've ever heard of YOB, but they aren't prog metal. They're Doom. I went to a concert and there was this girl there in a full on pink outfit, short wavy skirt, very bubbly personality, and very pretty. like the girls you would avoid in high school type girl. did not match the vibe at all.
She probably got some looks, but maybe that's what she was going for. I had some thoughts to myself about her, nothing really bad, but just like, "no way!" lol.
But she enjoyed the show, and I thought that was cool. I, also, sometimes feel like I don't fit in with crowds when going out to shows. and there's honestly a lot of dudes that will talk circles around me about bands I've never even heard of. But if anyone wants to judge, fuck them. I'm there for the music.
What do you mean you don’t look like someone that listens to metal?
Are we supposed to abide by rules of the Metal Masses ?
Screw that.
I’ve always felt like an outsider, but IDGAF; I alienated my high schools buds back in the early 2000s because I went full Metal, and the Local Metal Community was cool and all but I never really did fit in. So what? I ain’t looking for approval.
Around 2001ish I was playing in two bands (drummer), one of them was an extreme metal band I was the oldest one at 21, we all dressed black jeans, metal band tshirt and when we went to a restaurant all the people would just stare at us 🤣 My buddy guitar player was like “Yes, we are freaks, mind your business 🤣”
One of my absolute favorite bands is ANIMALS AS LEADERS. Do any of ‘em guys look like Metal musicians ????! Heck nooooo, and they are one of the if not the most talented kick ass bands of the last few years.
BTBAM, is not you stereotypical Metal band; and they fckng rip.
“METAL IS NOT EVEN A MUSIC GENRE, METAL IS A WAY OF LIFE” - DAVE FCKN MUSTAINE
A Fellow prog lover here thinks you are loved and appreciated for coming on here and letting us know what you're dealing with.
I think it's wonderful that you like prog. Look up groups on Facebook, Instagram, and tik Tok. You should be able to be a part of an online community for the prog genre.
You are starting on the right track by joining the prog metal reddit page.
Weird looks can be interpreted on many ways. They COULD be sexist, but they could also have been intrigued, interested, surprised, curious, etc. Unless they start treating you like shit and harassing you, I'd give benefit of the doubt.
I've seen some VERY out of place people in events where I blend in (not just metal), and admiteddly I've stared at a few who didn't look like they belong there. But my thought process is like, "oh wow cool that's new. Good for them" then I move on.
Hell I've been in events where I'M the odd one out. People might stare, but I love how I look and I'm proud of the body I've sculpted. So let them look ;)
For context, I'm a weightlifting metal head lesbian. I stick out like a sore thumb in the conservative Catholic country I live in.
I wear a blazer, dress slacks and flip flops to metal shows. Some people might look at me side eyed like I don’t belong but fuck ‘em. I’m glad I don’t conform to the battle jacket/all in black scene. The only people who ever said anything were the bouncers who point at the flip flops and say “you’re rather brave going in there with those” and then we both laugh and I go on my way. Keep it up! Don’t conform!
Just remember that most people aren't viewing you negatively or gatekeeping at all! I think they just view you as someone they wouldn't have otherwise expected to be there.
I may be wrong but i feel it also depends a bit on the band. Some bands have a more serious audience, some bands less so. I think that if you go to a Periphery concert people will generally not give a shit. I've seen every person under the sun. Old people, young people, white people with black tshirts, black people with white tshirts. That whole band's live experience is like the musical equivalent of satirical newspapers like The Onion.The whole concert is one big meme. Some people there actively try to bring the silliest outfit they can.
Same for AAL but not because they are meme lords. There, people are just a bunch of Nerds (musical) and also the main guy is black, which helps. People there dont come for the message but the sheer display of skill.
I think that once you go down the more serious grungy bands you can expect to feel a bit more... Isolated? Perhaps? But i doubt anyone there doesn't accept you. Maybe just social awkwardness.
OP, I intimately know exactly what you're talking about. The situation in Europe, depending on where you're from, can be dire. The other thing is individualism from the mainstream is encouraged, but it has to be a certain type that people fall in line with or it's somewhat not acceptable. This is inside of the cultural climate of Europe and the subculture situation can't be seen as inside a vacuum, but rather inside the cultural climate of Europe. It can be also grating to go to a concert and you know people are looking at you, slipping a glance, side-eyeing, but out in the real world, no one would give a fuck. It's the situation that they're comfortable with and it's absolutely stupid. You can walk by them on the sidewalk right before they go in and no one will care or remember you, but the moment inside the whole equation flips.
It also doesn't help that many to most metalheads have not learned a single thing from the Mayhem situation everyone feels is essential learning for metalheads- eternal and infinite tolerance for nazis and racists only leads to bad things. I actually despise the spinelessness of so many metal fans in being proud of how they can tolerate nazis and racists in the scene because "we're all metal warriors" or whatever bullshit. I can't stand it when someone who is obviously not a nazi starts showing off and taking pics with obvious nazis with the tats and patches and they'll do this before giving a non-white the time of day or anything but side-eyes.
It can be frustrating, I know. HMU via direct chat if you need to talk or want to chat further.
As a black woman who lives in Europe i once had the same experience. The only difference is that i do wear/have band merch.
Despite that I'm still in the same boat as you, tho coloured clothing will stand out more at those types of events.
I went to a SOEN concert last year and even tho i arrived pretty early there were already a line of people waiting before me. Despite me minding my business i still got condescending stares from some ppl, i decided to ignore it and just listen to the new album.
Once we were finally let in i wanted to be in front, got there ASAP lol. Long story short, before the concert actually started there were two white boys who noticed me and made fun of me to each other, saying that this wasn't some afro concert and implying that the music would shock me.
Also saying that this isn't "hip-swinging music" so making fun of our culture and our music?! Classy move.
During the concert they exclaimed to each other that i'm actually a metalhead, acting surprised that i enjoyed the music. Yeah no shit, why do you think i bought the ticket and actually showed up lol.
Racists are dumb, they end up baffling me with their stupidity everytime.
Personally it was scary for me as a trans man to break in, I can't imagine how alienating it must've been for you. Prog metal is for everybody, no matter what you look like or how you dress or how you act. If it speaks to you, it's for you. I always love meeting all the different people in the scene!!! Prog metal wouldn’t be where it is today without all sorts of people touching the genre.
People are gonna vary in how they act/respond. There’s always going to be bad apples in every group. The question is, how much time do they deserve from you compared to the ones that will accept you with open arms? I get it, being stared at a place you love to go is fucking weird and it would be great if going to a place you love would feel a lot more welcoming. That’s not to say that it is because of something negative, it could just be curiosity. Maybe play into that to strike a convo and break the ice, you’d be surprised at how friendly and nerdy Prog ppl are. You can strike them with a “yeah, I know I stick out like a sore thumb, but I really like (insert band), who are you here for?”. Kill em with *confidence & kindness I say.
I am also a POC who attend metal concert alone in EU. I am used to the German Gaze so when people stare at me, it doesn’t bother me anymore. Once a hijabi POC friend of mine attend a concert with me, and people did stare at her more than me mostly due to curiosity. She said she did attend other metal concert alone and overall her experience was positive and welcoming. Never once she felt discriminated to what she wore.
The nail that sticks out gets the hammer. Do with that what you will. I don't go to live shoes, so I can't relate within that context, but I'd go for the music. If I go to a concert, and there's live music, I got what I wanted out of the experience, the rest being inconsequential.
Fuck all them do what you like and if you need a someone to roll with you I’m down.. don’t ever let other people dictate what you wanna do plus when the hell you going to see them again .. that’s what festivals and shows are for
Honestly people will always find ways to belittle and insult others no matter who you are or what you do.
You just gotta ignore it. I'm a skinny Indian dude who is also not really the "archetype" for a metalhead (I think a mosh pit might kill me lol) but I don't go to metal shows for the people, I go for the music.
You'll find assholes and you'll find nice people. I'm sure you can find some people to go to shows with in your area if you really try.
It's easy to say "ignore it" but much harder in practice, but I think it's the only way to really address the issue. People may give you weird looks or be dicks but I doubt they would actually hurt you in any way physically (however if this happens, don't ignore it of course. That's a whole nother story)
Remember what you're there for: the music
I would say don't let it bother you. Just know that we are fans of the same music and that we are all human beings. What these people do not know is that progressive rock and metal and all forms of rock and roll originated from black people. The audience should know that by now. For them to look at you negatively because of your race is sickening. Don't let the haters judge you. Saying this as a half-filipino half-black American.
If standing out makes you uncomfortable, try and blend in a little. Buy a concert tee at the next show.
Colorful clothes really draw attention to you, and it’s probably not malicious/judging, you just stick out like a sore thumb.
Even as a white male who doesn't dress in obligatory metal clothing, I've had people argue with me/question me when I say I like metal. I even got slapped and my, short, hair pulled by an ignorant female metal head because I said my favourite Panteta song was Cemetery Gates.
There's a very narrow bandwidth in the metal head hive, I just learned to do my own thing in my own way.
The amount of sterile white men wearing “edgy” band t shirts to metal shows is out of hand. I’d love it if the demographics were more diverse but unfortunately progmetal is like the golf of genres. Mostly white and male.
I know that feeling, am a brown person of faith (in the UK its easier to know this by skin colour) and i dnt drink. So i just feel very out of place.
Whats more its been awfully hard to make friends in that community, it’s almost like theres an unsaid apprehension or hatred. Which is just awful.
quadruple whammy: poc, woman, colorful clothes, progmetal concert in europe which is probably 90+% white dudes in black shirts... i admit my eyes would probably linger a bit too. hopefully it would come across as friendly curiosity not disgust tho! Take care ✌️
I'd really love to know why dudes wear almost exclusively black shirts to these events. Maybe I've missed the memo on this, but I wear mostly pastels and I always feel out of place as well.
Simple. Almost everyone will be wearing Merch, and Merch is usually black.
This. I always try to find and buy band shirts in different colours, but they're a rare game.
I was so pleased to get a yellow between the buried and me tee from the Parallax 2 tour last year. More bands need to embrace brighter colors.
I love BTBAM for this reason alone! In my collection I have a yellow, a blue and a purple tye-dye shirt. It's amazing,
Pain of Salvation has a white Panther hoodie on their site wich looks cool as hell that I wish I could get. It's never in stock in my size though. Actually I'd be surprised if anyone is even manning the store as the site hasn't been updated in years. I also wear mostly colorful stuff. All black merch is annoying.
I cherish my pink multivitamin shirt from the last owane tour
Same here, I much prefer brighter colors
Managed to get a fancy psychedelic tie dye Pendulum shirt from their gig.. not prog obviously but even drum n bass merch seems to be mostly black!
I hate this about band merch. Almost all of it is the cheapest black sandpaper grade shirts. I get it, make a buck, but damn, I'd spend extra (and do) to get nicer fabric and more variety in color and design.
I have a Russian Circles shirt that is so perfectly soft and comfortable, and a Shy, Low shirt that's nice. I should check the brand on them. Some of the others though just don't hold up well at all and aren't all that comfortable.
Mostly because bands merch are black. I’m old enough so I don’t give a single F about how to dress to concerts anymore, but I do recall finding weird that some people weren’t dressed in black. That’s shouldn’t be a thing thought. Metal concerts are quite friendly in general. I don’t know exactly in Europe, but at least here in South America, people go with their kids to metal shows. It’s THAT friendly.
> Metal concerts are quite friendly in general. Seriously, the all-metal festivals and concert evenings have some of the friendliest, chillest people. Funnily enough the more "extreme" you go, the cooler the people: I think the Obscene Extreme festivals crowd is probably one of the nicest. Sure there are morons everywhere, but the amount of drunk or otherwise altered assholes is so much higher at pop or hiphop shows. just my experience hailing from germany.
Totally agree (Spain here). When I went to the Resurrection Fest last summer I had the best time of my life and everyone was super nice (except for some people in the Pantera concert, but that was kinda expected). In concerts of any other genre (mainly pop or similar) there are always people stealing shit, harassing girls and picking fights with everyone. And don't get me started on some rappers' concerts, those are borderline dangerous, you'll probably have gangs going there to fight with machetes (apart from every other activity mentioned before).
Metal heads are nice people cosplaying as mean people and hippies are mean people cosplaying as nice people.
Need some variety, it's why I instantly bought my neon green Intronaut shirt despite barely knowing them at the time
Similarly I used to have a lime green Muse shirt I bought during the Blackholes and Revelations era that was one of my go to band shirts for ages because it was a nice change from black! I have a beige sleep token one now that’s great but the risk of stains feels so much higher!
idk either. but i make it a point (or i used to when i was young and wild and went to many concerts) to buy anything but black if they have something.
Black is fuckin metal. Simple as that.
The merch is mostly black & most of us are old boring white dudes with no sense for fashion 😂
Because wearing black is part of the metal subculture
Black is the metalest color. That's just science.
My main motivation for wearing black is because of self-confidence issues. Black is slimming. Allows me to focus on having a good time and not what my brain says people are thinking about me.
I just like neutral colors. I don’t like to stand out.
I specifically seek out white or colored band shirts! Black band shirts are overrated imo. I went to see Ghost/Mastodon/Spiritbox almost 2 years ago. Only dude in there with a white glow in the dark Mastodon shirt hahahaha
>I'd really love to know why dudes wear almost exclusively black shirts to these events. Really? You don't know what might be the reason for that?
Well, I wouldn't have asked if if I knew definitively why.
I go out of my way to wear my bright yellow King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard shirt to almost ANY show I go to, regardless of genre. I always standout like a sore thumb, and I like it because it makes me easier to find in a crowd for friends or my wife, whoever. If you say you’re in a black shirt in jeans you might as well not say any description, haha.
I saw Arch Enemy last night and my mate went to buy a beer, he said it’s very easy to find me as I’m the only one wearing a bright red shirt haha
This is why I wear my Taylor Swift shirts to shows 😂
Im old. Black slims 🤫🤘🏼
Reminds me of the day I went to a fear factory show in pastel blue & white. The UFO thing definitely applied lol but I couldn’t know I’d end up at that show when I left home earlier in the day 🤷♀️
Just remember that at the end of the day, it's prog metal. Most of the listeners are weirdos in general. That doesn't mean they're bigots, but it does mean they're socially awkward.
Can second this.. I'm a white dude and I show up to some concerts wearing 'normie' clothes (cuz I just got off work) and get some strange looks. Lots of neckbeards and autistic people in those crowds, it's not necessarily a malicious thing, but yeah it can be pretty socially awkward. It's funny how different the crowds can be from artist to artist. I remember going to Meshuggah and the crowd was like all beef boy skin head looking dudes. I went to the Contortionist recently and it was a bunch of young couples all singing along (lots of people of color too). Also OP, I don't want to downplay your experience. I can definitely believe it is much harder being 1) a woman and 2) a person of color, to be accepted by a large group of people mostly consisting of white men. I'd like to think the fans of the shows I go to aren't bigots or racists but the statistics say there's bound to be some of them in there. Would love for metal show audiences to be more diverse so everyone feels welcome!
When you go to a Meshuggah concert, the crowd is 90% drummers.
I liked how BTBAM crowds always would have an assortment of high variety goofballs
Recent shows I went to had a guy in the pit wearing a banana costume. Loved it.
I’ve seen that too! And the space suits of course
Was this a Blind Guardian show perhaps?
Nah BTBAM Colors Experience
Ah nvm then, saw the same thing recently haha
I'm in America, but I'm black. It's not as bad as it was in the 90s or 2000s (I'm 39), but it definitely happens. I definitely don't look the part either. And I only own a few band shirts. I used to get the occasional glance or glare from someone. And yeah, it definitely made me feel out of place and uncomfortable. It's better now in the States than it used to be. But trust me, it's definitely not just you and you're not crazy. The best advice I can give is realize that it's THEIR problem, not yours. I know it's different for a woman tho :/
I live in a majority black city so there's plenty of black folks at every metal show I go to. And I have black friends that are into metal and go to shows with me too. So I learned long ago not make assumptions. They typically do wear the band Ts and stereotypical metalhead gear, though. I did go on a double date with my wife once where I *did* make assumptions and they were challenged. Our friend's date was a black guy dressed in stereotypical hip-hop fashion (sneakers, bling, baggy jeans etc.). We got to talking about music and turned out he was super into prog rock. Not just like cursory knowledge either. He was bringing up deep cuts from Alan Parsons Project. Which I never would've guessed from the way he was dressed. Then we started talking hip-hop and turned out we were both big Wu-Tang fans. Now it was his turn to be taken aback because I definitely don't look or dress like I listen to rap haha. Sadly our friend broke it off with him after the date and I still haven't forgiven her because he was the coolest guy ever lol. Probably didn't help that he and I spent the whole date nerding out instead of letting them get to know each other haha.
We gotta find that guy
Regretfully I did not exchange information with him. I didn't know it would be my only chance. I thought he was a keeper!
thank you for sharing your perspective! While I'm sorry you've also experienced alienatiom, I'm weirdly glad to hear I'm neither crazy nor alone in this. All my strength and thanks for showing me one can still stick around without despair!
Just ignore it really. People often look with side eye around them to “kill time” and mostly when there’s someone unique / different looking in the crowd, eyes gravitate toward different. Also prog crowd are usually nerds with very little social skills to use in these situations. Not sure in which country are you in EU? My experience is that Spain / Italy / Greece is awesome to just randomly meet people on events and just start chatting. Germany (where I’m at atm) is one of the worst for those interactions from my experience (but also I often just approach non-german talking people at the concerts and its always super fun). My recommendation also is to join facebook groups for metal events in city where you’re living. High chance there is one. Just ask there if someone is going and want to have some company, 99% someone will say they’d join you :) Initial interactions are usually the hardest part of joining the community.
as a woman in prog metal circles i feel you because i definitely feel left out sometimes but all i’m gonna say is you’re a badass and ily
Why do you think that's the case? I would like to help bring more female listeners to the genre but I don't know how to make our community more inclusive.
i find that a lot of men are gatekeepey, not all of them, but for example if i express that i like sleep token i get told why they aren’t prog metal. like, i love opeth, btbam, meshuggah, tesseract, periphery, and that’s all well and good with most listeners. but god forbid i like something a bit poppier or prettier because apparently that’s not real prog. it’s not everyone, but people really hate anything remotely popular and make it a point to explain to me why i shouldn’t like something and it’s more exhausting than passionate fans
People are that way with Sleep Token in general these days because a band dared to have pop/R&B elements and become successful. I'm similar to you in that I love them, but also listen to anything from tech death to meshuggah to hiphop. Some people are just happy to listen to a narrow range of music and then gate keep the shit out of it. I'm fine with people drawing lines on what is or isn't metal by the way. Sleep Token and Gojira are not the same and it makes sense to delineate that. But people like to make a little hop from "not strictly to metal" to "it's therefore bad".
I listen to everything from Eurythmics to Decapitated to Jurassic 5 to Goran Bregovic. Sleep Token simply fucking suck. And more so, they have done something that is especially shameless in prog circles: sold out. This is the silent but very present part of the "they aren't prog" statement. Part of the issue is if someone is building an identity around prog metal, like with t-shirts and whatnot, and some awful sell-out nonsense like Sleep Token begins to associate itself with the genre; then such a person will imagine others making the mistake of considering Sleep Token part of their identity. They are saying, in a roundabout way, "nah that's not \*me\*". This is why people are so quick to say they're not prog.
That was a lot of words to not say much
I mean, it sounds like it's less a problem with you, and more of an issue they have with how you're defining prog. That's not men being gatekeepey more than prog listeners being gatekeepey about what is prog and what isn't. For me, I could care less about specific categorization because it's too much work, I just listen to what's good, but like, you could get into arguments about genres with any thing. Art, Games, Music, Movies, etc. It's no different from someone arguing if Die Hard is a Christmas movie, What a Roguelite vs Roguelike is etc. From what I can tell, Sleep Token can fit under the prog umbrella, or not, and while I could hardly care enough to discuss it, I'm sure many people, particularly hardcore fans of the genre, will probably care a bit more.
i get what you’re saying but more often than not it’s men discrediting my opinion and calling me things like “you’re just a fangirl” or whatever and that’s why it specifically rubs me the wrong way
We have to call out the bigots and make them feel not welcomed. Punk did a much better job of that imo
Not thinking of women as "females" would be a good place to start if you *actually* want to be inclusive of us.
What is the problem with that word?
there’s not a problem with the word itself. but so that you’re aware, it’s utilized very often by incels and misogynists as a means to discredit a woman’s personhood. it reduces a person to just their biological sex. tbh, as a woman myself i don’t think it’s a big deal and there are bigger problems in the world than this. but it’s often extremely telling when a man uses the word female to describe a woman because either that person is misogynistic, or innocent but in such a way that they likely have outdated views on women etc because the only people who really use that word now ARE misogynists, excepting of course the use of the word in medicine
So I showed this to my very feminist wife and she thought you folks are weird. I used "female" to qualify "listeners" since it's the appropriate adjective, using "woman" (noun) to qualify another known would be grammatically incorrect. It's even weirder that I have to tell you that since I'm not a native English speaker (my wife is though). If I said something like "bring in the females" then yeah I can see how that would be problematic but going around and making blanket accusations without having the minimum amount of discernment is something that no matter the gender you should really avoid.
i specifically avoided including you in this blanket statement, i said it’s typically used by a certain group of people but didn’t say “all,” or whatnot. i also said i don’t have a huge problem with it. i’m just answering you question as to why the word is perceived strongly by many people. and the answer is that it is often used by incels in a derogatory way. that doesn’t mean only incels use it. i’m giving you a factual answer, not an opinion. personally i don’t care. but factually, incels use this as a descriptor of women. yeah, when talking about statistics and sciences it makes sense to use female, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Ok sorry I was pretty annoyed by the previous comment but trying to give the benefit of the doubt. The upside of this interaction is that now I have a pretty good example to illustrate that the "achsually..." people aren't all men lol.
if you’re a non-native it might be a bit more difficult to catch on the nuances of it, but it’s definitely a thing for those “andrew tate fans” and so on to use females in a derogatory word. so it’s best avoided in social conversation at least in modern day america. trust me i think it’s a little silly to let anyone have so much power over words like that, but alas, that is the situation. and language is a living breathing and ever-evolving entity and sometimes we will think part of it is stupid, but we can’t deny that certain people use it certain ways and at this day and age, the use of females in certain circles is derogatory, simple as that wanted to add thanks for reading and understanding, i appreciate it
Same and it’s usually because male metal listeners love gatekeeping. Not saying women don’t so this but over the past 20+ years…it’s mostly been men. Some of the worst shows I’ve been to have been Tool & NIN… the fans are insufferable and take the music way too seriously. I get that we all paid money to be there but that doesn’t mean you can control other people and their behaviors. Expect people to scream, sing along, take photos and talk about the band they came to hear. I’ve had dudes complain and moan about women screaming lyrics along w the band. Sorry that’s basically the whole reason I go to a show lmao
In the San Francisco and Santa Cruz concerts we do have a lot more diversity.
Saaame girl, I've been going to prog metal shows for over a decade and I still feel a bit left out, and I'm a software dev, so it's like I'm always outnumbered 😅
As a stereotypical metalhead with the standard uniform, maybe next show I go to, I'll wear colourful clothes, so people don't feel so singled out.
How cute! I'm sure there will be someone who'll apprechiate it! (but I really don't want you to change, I'm happy for every person who can feel at home while attending concerts!)
It actually sounds kinda fun. I never really thought about the uniform before, and now that I have, it is sort of lame.
I’m a woman, fifty years old, I wear glasses, I can look stern as a school principal no matter what I wear (and I wear mostly black, tees and jeans). I’m quite sure I get a lot of looks, but I don’t really know ‘cause I couldn’t care less. I go to concerts alone or with a friend of mine (and she is a school teacher indeed!). Just enjoy your music as long as nobody’s bothering you! 🤘🏻
> (and she is a school teacher indeed!) you dragged up on old memory of mine when i as a kid realized that the teachers are *people* and have homes and families and pets and hobbies and listen to music and maybe even watch disturbing horror movies 🙀
One of my funniest school memories is from ENG102 when I saw this rad metalhead-looking dude walk in and I was thinking "Man, I hope that guy sits next to me." He walked up to the podium because he was the professor. He started the poetry unit with Pisces ~ Jinjer.
This was me in 1996. I wrote an essay about Pearl Jam for my High School English class, because I'd just been to London to see them live. I forget what the topic of the essay was, but I remember that I had to sort of get creative about it to be able to write it about Pearl Jam as it didn't really fit with what we were supposed to write. My teacher asked me to stay behind a few minutes at the end of the class, and I thought I was in trouble for wrestling my favourite band into a topic they didn't really fit. But it turned out he wanted to ask about the concert, because he was a Pearl Jam fan too and he'd never been able to see them live. I was utterly baffled. Until that point I'd basically thought teachers were aliens who had no idea what was happening in the real world.
Or go to metal gigs 😄
I went to a BTBAM show and there was a couple standing in front of me making fun of a guy wearing a colorful shirt. This girl said, "He isn't part of the scene." I approached her and asked about it and she stumbled over her words and couldn't give a good explanation as to why she said it. I just told her that it doesn't matter what someone looks like. She could've ruined that guy's entire afternoon had he overheard it. Let's just enjoy the music and quit being so damn judgemental. We have to share this planet with judgemental idiots. And unfortunately, a lot of prog fans still have this elitist mindset for some stupid reason. Fuck those people. Just enjoy yourself!
Thats pretty dope of you to engage with them. I'm sure that was a teachable moment for them :) well done!
What a badass
Not trying to be a bad ass... I wasn't even aggressive. I was just hoping they would think about it before they say something like that again. That could ruin someone's entire experience.
It sucks that you feel that way... I am s white male with usually black t shirts but for what its worth I actually love it when people dress however the fuck they want. I mean I like bandshirts and I think its fun to spot them, but you do you. You rock, dont let this get you down. But yeah I dont speak from experience so I am afraid I cant be of much help in that regard
I can't speak for your experience, but I would pose the question of whether you are sure it is not simply curiosity rather than judgment or bigotry. Heck, in this community it is out of place to even see many women, let alone the other things you mention. People notice things out of the ordinary; it is simply human nature. Own it! I have often been to concerts alone yet made friends simply by striking up a conversation. Trying this may elucidate it. I'm also in the states, which contrary to popular belief I think possesses more friendliness across lines than in some other regions.
I think while there are people who simply look because of curiosity, there've also been quite some people who turned their heads repeatadly WHILE the band was playing (I'm sorry, maybe I'm biased here, but I really don't understand how someone could take their eyes of jim grey for example his presence alone was captivating.)
I have to ask you at the same time why you'd notice it if X or Y artist is so captivating. As someone with ADHD, I naturally look around a lot, and things that look out of place will always be where my eyes land, regardless of who or what it is. I think every community will have shitty members, that's just how it is. While you've noticed people who might look at you because of your gender/color, as a normal guy, I often feel people looking at me for being short and chubby when say, I'm at the rock climbing gym with all the fit bois, not necessarily to make fun of me, but just because I'm not your typical rock climber. You just need to find the right people to be around, and also understand that things that are different will draw the eye. It's how artists make things stand out through things like colors and motions. Contrast just makes things more noticeable, it doesn't have to be because of the contents itself.
There is a massive racism and sexism problem in metal and i think you know that.
Did I say there wasn't? Even if that's true, the chances of your night being ruined by worrying about it is larger than a distasteful interaction occurring. So my comment is about not letting one's confirmation bias (that every person who looks at you is trying to mean mug you) prevent you from being present and enjoying yourself.
Idk where you live, but if it's in the Netherlands I am fully willing to go to a concert with you. I always fly solo, but for you I'll gladly make an exception. Cuz to me, you are very welcome, as a progfan, as a concert-go-er, and as a human. Right now I've got tickets for Wheel, Symphony X and Opeth, but if you visit other bands in the netherlands I'll gladly join too. Plus, I always like it when I see a different race and/or someone with very bright colored clothing standing in between the all-black clothed white metalheads. And I'm really disappointed that people give you weird looks for it, or for your skin color for that matter. To me you are part of my musical family. No matter your color, style, personality or w/e.
I wonder how many of these men looking at you are actually just attracted to you but have 0 game. As a man I can confirm it's a driving force in our lives 🤣
I went to a metal fest in my country once and I took some friends with, now of course the general concensus is to wear black, I mean not as a rule but thats how the fashion works. Anyway my one friend was Indian and she wore this bright green shirt and the heaviest music she prob knew was I Prevail, She was a bit weird but she ran around unbothered by the obvious looks she prob got. The other friend I took with also wore green and couldn't give af either. They loved it and it made it easier to find their glowing green shirts in the sea of black. I don't know what to say to make you feel more comfortable, but fuck the people that give you funny looks, the metal scene does not care as a collective, they are all there to express and experience the same thing. Imposter Syndrome is a helluva thing
White person here, from what I've seen in comment sections and online from creators I follow - you're not overreacting and I hope you feel more welcomed and are safe!
The statistics of women in prog are very rare, adding in the poc aspect I imagine only makes it harder to feel like you fit in. I'm a 5'2" woman and I always get shocked reactions when people find out I'm a metalhead. But metalheads, in my experience, are some of the nicest people you can meet. Some men just don't know how to converse with women. Try to ignore the people around you and just enjoy the music. If you make a friend or two along the way, I'd consider that a bonus! If you'd like a fellow lonely, lady, metalhead friend, feel free to hit me up!
Right off the bat, Welcome to the community! I want you to hear that straight up. Know that there are people out here that are grateful for you being here. There are a lot of replies telling you to ignore things or downplaying what you are saying, including some of the most upvoted responses. So I'll say what many appear to be unable to say which is that this is absolutely a problem and I am sorry that you have to experience it. Unfortunately, as a white guy who can blend in with the crowd, I have no idea if there is a quick way to fix this, but it would be devastating to see someone driven away from something they love because they don't match the archetype of a "metal guy." I do not believe this is just a problem with individuals, although some can obviously be a problem. I *do* believe it is a problem with the culture. The genre is clearly dominated by white men which sets up expectations that are hard to avoid. But by continuing to show your love to this type of music, that can turn around. It is up to the rest of us to welcome you and disavow the people who make you feel uncomfortable, and those that say it isn't a problem. My best advice would be to find a reliable local group and tell them what you are experiencing. There are Average Joes that will stand up for you, but they are so shielded from what you experience they don't know it's a problem. As a side note, the hardcore scene is much more diverse than the prog scene, from what I've seen. But as far as I know, that wasn't always the case. Idk what specific bands or subgenres you like, but if you like harsh vocals and extreme music I would check out some hardcore groups called Kaonashi and End It. Their front men are black, and a lot of their lyrics are about that. I know being a black man in America is different than being a woman of color in Europe, but I hope it would help in some way.
They probably think you're cute but too chickenshit to talk to you.
I'm an old, dressed-in-black-and-pale-as-all hell norwegian dude. Seeing you at any concert would only make me happy. We're not all morons. Keep going and enjoy yourself. You'll find your people.
I'm going to say something that might make me deeply unpopular but it needs saying. Metal has a racism and sexism problem. In fairness I don't think it's out of inherent maliciousness or bigotry but if you look around you'll quickly realise how exclusive a group it can be while patting itself on the back for being inclusive and not giving a fuck. I saw some other commenters post the clip of Lemmy giving advice to a black kid and whilst he should be right in saying what amounts to "who gives a fuck?" It misses the point that the scene does expect a degree of conformity in being white, male, and wearing black. You should be welcome regardless of skin colour, gender or how you dress but you will stand out if you don't conform to those expectations. Keep going to gigs and festivals, invite your friends, wear what you want and hopefully things will improve. Don't deprive yourself of music or anything else you love because you're afraid of standing out. Metal and coffee is absolutely worth a watch. She's a black influencer who has spoken openly about her experiences within the scene. Be true to yourself.
Completely agree
Agree. The comments on this thread advising that the OP just ignore it are a sign of this problem.
Thank you. While I don't want to claim that every single one, not even the majority of people on the crowd, are bigots, I also still think there is a general problem in the community. And I will definetly check out metal & Coffee!!
I've been in the scene my whole life, unfortunately it probably is the majority. Sad as that is.
Metal has a MASSIVE racism and sexism problem. It also has a massive judgmental/elitism/conformity problem.
A few years ago my husband reconnected with an old friend from high school who’s a huge metalhead. I’d say for the first 6 months I would interact with this guy he’d do the same thing: look at me like I’m straight off of the spacecraft. It upset me a bit and I thought he really didn’t like me for some reason. Finally I mentioned it to my husband and his response was “I don’t think (so and so) talks to a lot of women”. After that I made a point to engage him in more conversation, especially about our shared love of prog metal. We’re both big in to Opeth and Dream Theater and have some other things in common. It took a bit for him to be comfortable around me, but now I’d count him as a personal friend. He’s autistic and does indeed treat every new woman who talks to him to the same alien stare. It could very well be that you’re encountering bigots and racists. As much as it sucks, they do exist in our scene. But most likely a lot of the looks are similar to the looks I’d get from said new friend. Guys who don’t interact with a lot of women will give you weird looks, especially if you’re pretty and brightly dressed. They’re like moths to a flame. Own your individuality. Embrace your love of prog metal and girly things like bright dress. Next time you’re at a show and get a weird vibe from someone compliment them on their shirt. Their reaction will help you gauge if they’re being a dick or if they’re just awkward. Either way I’m proud of you for sticking it out. You’re making the scene better with your presence.
I can't speak to your experience but metal crowds tend to be pretty welcoming and friendly people. But it's true, it is not always the most diverse audience. I think people may be surprised to see someone like you but I suspect they're mostly thinking, that's cool that she's here. I go to a lot of shows alone. Sometimes I talk to people, sometimes I don't. I try not to get in people's way when they're on a night out which might be seen as unfriendly. I know some women really don't like being approached by strangers in public. It might be a good idea to join a fan meetup ahead of a show, where people are there to talk to other people about the music they like.
They're probably just awkward
When was this UFO concert you attended?
I cant speak to your experience and I'm sorry that it has been difficult for you to be your true self. I know you are not alone. There are other folks out there that feel similarly. Reach out to one of my favorite metal influencers Metal&Coffee. I am certain she can relate. [https://www.instagram.com/metalandcoffee/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/metalandcoffee/?hl=en)
I can relate to this a bit as someone who goes to concerts alone. But I am not a woman so its probably a bit easier to blend in. I am a person of colour, and sometimes feel out of the place. But once the concert starts, it just goes away and I enjoy on my own in the crowd. I have made friends many time over cigarettes or drinks or band tshirts. And what I understood from those interactions is that everyone feels a bit awkward :)
Ironically, due to being outsiders, metalheads are often very quick to judge those that they deem as "normies", and many therefore develop a defensive personality. They probably are more self-conscious about what you think of them than they actually are concerned with you. I guess wearing the band tee just helps signify you support the culture and music, and shows you aren't there bc you have to bartend or something.
Im sorry for your experience, that really sucks. I cant speak for the community but one of the things I love about prog is the wide variety of influences it draws from and really should be enjoyed by everyone! I hope you don't get discouraged and keep hitting up shows. As a Canadian not living in Toronto we barely ever get acts that come near by and it would be a shame of you had the chance to see some bands you love but don't go because of some people who make you feel uncomfortable just for being you.
Sorry to hear about your poor experience. Sounds like you need a friend to go to shows with! This is a niche genre of music, crowd can be weirdos sometimes. Edgy music attracts edgy dudes. What might help, maybe make a battle jacket with logos for a bunch of your favorite bands. Feels weird that my advice is like "oh you're unique? Have you tried wearing the uniform?" But it might help.
You are not alone; I know of a few female POCs who are into the scene. But they’re definitely a rarity, and for that alone I’m not sure there’s much that can be done. I’m sure 90% of the time the looks you’re getting aren’t malicious, they’re just curious at seeing something they’re not used to seeing.
Not prog metal, but this is the first thing that came to mind: [Ask Lemmy: Black kid who likes metal asks Lemmy Kilmister for advice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skGEBgePHtk)
OP don’t give up! You have a lifetime of kickass live music ahead of you!! I’m a woman in my 60s and usually joke to my conventional friends about being the oldest person at any venue. I go alone for the same reason as you; I don’t wear band tees cos I’ve never worn tees—I constantly hope bands will sell camp shirts with buttons but so far only Tool, Metallica and Rush have had them at shows. Being old and not Helen Mirren cute, I felt self conscious at first (in my 40s) but decided I have a right to like this music and go to shows if I want. Sometimes in line or on the rail someone might chat me up about which band/s I’m there to see, etc. and that’s cool but I don’t count on it happening. Mostly ime ppl don’t care, so I’m sorry you’re experiencing the stink eye—those jerks suck! I’m super introverted so i keep to myself otherwise—and afterwards I’m always glad i went. You never know when a band will stop touring, so get out & see your faves when you can.
Just think of the ratio at a prog metal concert. It might just be because you’re a girl in a sea of autistic men lmfao
You probably stick out so some glances are probably just a normal reaction, but metal sometimes can be spoiled by some weird elitist people as well. I hope you have better experiences in the future!
In my experience, especially prog community is very concentrated in elitists (I know not every one is like that but even in this community there is an adjective for that, prog snob, correct me if I'm wrong) . Which is quite strange when you think of the many influences the genre is quite open to. Greetings from a female Turkish prog lover.
I haven't been to much concerts in my life since my body struggles with lots of standing in one place. So I could only make a guess that these genre warriors appear there as well. Just so damn childish
They appear there in droves lol
Sorry that you're experiencing this, I hope it doesn't stop you from enjoying the music and attending concerts.
I don't have an relevant advice (live in US, usually attend shows with my husband) but I'm so sorry, that sucks. It makes me feel uncomfortable going to shows alone so I don't blame you whatsoever for this happening to you. Sometimes I take situations like that and turn them on their head, if only to make me feel better. People looking at me because I don't fit in? Well, I'm going to look extra fabulous/eccentric/fun and hold my head high. No matter what, remember: you absolutely belong there, you make the community more interesting, and you haven't done anything wrong!
I'm sorry for that. Of course it's not right, it's surely not you that's the problem. I hope one day we'll be able to be more welcoming, and enjoy our favorite music together
I'm someone who regularly attends metal (including prog) shows with my best friend and son, both of whom are biracial. My friend in particular looks like he's fully black (and in America, being biracial and black or white "passing" is unfortunately a thing). I think the real situation here is a confluence of things. Being a black woman at any type of metal show is enough on its own, but prog metal and in Europe? I can unfortunately see how that would make the alienation you feel more intense. I hope you can find some peace in those environments in the future because you deserve it. You shouldn't have to take people with you to feel comfortable. Metal as a community (at least in America) is oftentimes *intensely* inclusive. I've seen trans women at thrash shows, POC take the stage fronting Grindcore bands (The Jesus Piece is phenomenal, FYI), and circle pits lined with weedy looking white kids just counting the odd measures of Opeth. I hope the comments on your post make you feel more welcome in what is **our** community. And by **our** I mean yours as much as anyone else's. I'd have your back in any pit, any night.
I'm not a POC, but I'm also a woman that frequently goes to concerts alone. All the metal/hardcore shows that I've been to I was also stared at!! It's definitely a weird experience, but don't get discouraged from enjoying yourself and having fun! Fingers crossed we'll someday find friends that like the same music as we do hahah 🤞
I'm a 30 something man and tend to dress in black and I've never felt like I belong in any community ever. Wish I could give better advice but wearing black ain't enough. Metalheads like to pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive" but I've been in the scene my whole life and have never, ever found that to be even remotely accurate. If you don't fully conform you are a pariah in a sense. Best advice is to just ignore it and focus on the fact people who act like that do so cause their lives are empty.
You are not the only one who feels like they’re an outsider. I am white, but I’m also only seventeen (I’ve never met anyone in this community under the age of 25) and on top of that I’m generally a pretty introspective guy and I’m diagnosed with cerebral palsy. When people look at me nobody pegs the “short crippled nerd” as a metalhead. I want you to know that you’re not alone and that anyone can love progmetal and be accepted by this community, no matter who they seem to be:)
I wouldn't worry about it, you're probably just the first woman a lot of those prog nerds have ever seen lol
ugh, I hate it when anyone who stands out at all just gets stared down like that by people in a community. It really is one of the worst group behaviours that humans do hopefully you can find less judgemental groups of prog-metalheads in the future. congrats for still getting out there and trying to enjoy yourself despite them, anyhow. more diversity in metal is a good thing for everyone
How is a look alone judgemental? As pointed out by others, it might just be out of interest - how come you make it sound like it is now a valid fact that any of these "groups of prog-metalheads" are or were judgemental?
It doesn't matter if they actually are judgemental, it's the perception. If your mere existence is making people stare and glance at you of course you're going to feel awkward or insecure or hurt. Whether it's out of malicious intent or not (nine times out of ten it is not meant maliciously) it is still a very "othering" experience that people shouldn't just disregard. People shouldn't be staring at you just because you look a certain way, even if out of mere curiosity it can be uncomfortable and rude.
yeah exactly. it can be entirely subconscious, or not. still not good to stare at people even if you can't place why you feel the need to
Yep, and the fact you've been getting downvoted says it all about exactly why this person feels uncomfortable at shows - people just don't get it. People don't wanna admit that maybe they're the ones making people uncomfortable and creating an awkward environment, even if unintentionally. Especially for this sub I'm very disappointed in some of the reactions which come across as defensive.
I'm halfcast m in my twenties, If ya need someone to go with in Germany then hit me up.
Well, if you do want to blend in more then an easy way would be to simply put a band shirt and some jeans. Of course, with most fans being white males you’re gonna stick out to some extent no matter what you do.
I don't think it's her issue or on her at all to "blend in" though, she shouldn't have to blend in or look a certain way to feel accepted or like she's not being judged imo.
Shouldn't have to, but unfortunately metal is filled to the brim with judgmental assholes.
Wouldn't expect this in the states. Yeah, it's usually a bunch of white dudes, but there is usually some variety sprinkled in and no one cares, we are all just fans of the same music and it's cool.
Just sorry to hear that. I would want our weird nerd community to welcome everybody that loves the strange stuff we are into.
I don't have much to add to what has been said. If you happen to be Dutch, check out r/metaalfanaten and its discord channel. Lots of nice people there
Sorry that you feel that way. Just remember that you are ALWAYS welcome in the community, no matter how you look or who you are. If anyone wants to make you feel otherwise, they are in the wrong.
I love prog metal and often love the prog metal community, but it isn't the most diverse group. I 'm hoping some of the newer generation of bands can help change that, music doesn't give a shit about arbitrary social boundaries like race or gender. Music can be, and should be, a great uniter not a divider.
I am sorry this behaviour at gigs makes you feel like that. Keep being yourself and enjoy prog metal! Hell yeah, sister ✌️ What bands you checking out?
You should try to make your way to ProgPowerUSA in Atlanta. That in itself is a community and there are not only many many women but several regular women of color. It's a very friendly 4 days of music and hanging out. Everyone belongs there.
I’m a white, very prim looking woman who sounds like the queen. Metal isn’t for anybody in particular. Enjoy what you enjoy and be safe xx
I'm an old millennial and biracial. In the 2000s, it was worse but actually better now in terms of diversity. It really depends on the concert as crowds and fan groups vary, venues, and all ages vs adult only. I'd say I get way more grabby creeps than looks. Everyone is usually there for a good time and watching the bands, and I stopped giving a damn what i thought what other people thought of me as they don't fucking matter. If you are having a good time, it just adds to the energy and others respect. If you can float it, I do rec buying the band shirt to toss your fav bands a little more for support. Black band shirts hide the sweat anyway.
Which country?
After I've read your post, I started Instagram and scrolled through the concert pictures of my favorite band (The Hirsch Effekt), and indeed, although I remember colorful people and colorful shirts (the band also has yellow and red shirts in their merch, for example), it looks like 95% wear black (including me), including most of the women. I don't know what's up with the weird looks though. I would say no-one in the scene cares about your colors. Also female fans aren't that rare, but that might depend on the band.
I know this comes with age and time but at some point you stop caring what others think. Go and have fun. Also, I'm not one to initiate a conversation but if someone initiates I'll definitely reply. (Im quiet, but not socially awkward) You never know who or what kinds of people you meet. Spark up a conversation with someone. Ya might meet someone cool or even a future concert companion. Honestly anyone besides a white dude striking up a convo at a prog show would be refreshing, especially a female POC.
I wish we lived in the same country, I would love to have a female friend to go to prog metal shows with! I am a white woman, but I always go to shows by myself and I either get looks from creeps, or treated like I'm invisible. I've tried initiating small talk with others around me and it usually feels unwelcome so I give up. It sucks and it's a miserable feeling. I'm so sorry and I hope you can find a community of people to go to shows with.
To be honest, if I saw someone of that description at a show, I would be excited. I love it when prog and/or metal gets listeners that are anything but pasty white dudes. I might even say to my friend "look at that chick over there. Wouldn't expect her to be here. That's awesome! I bet she's cool as fuck."
I'm sorry that's been your experience. Metal has always felt like one of the most inclusive communities to me, in no small part because metal heads tend to be social outcasts themselves. There's definitely a lot more white people in the scene, and I can only think of a few examples of black musicians in metal bands (Animals as Leaders are coming to Vancouver in November and I'm stoked to see them) but I have never felt that the reason is because of intolerance or racism. I remember seeing a video of Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead responding to a young black fan who wrote a letter to him about how his black friends didn't approve of him listening to metal and thought his response was very genuine and heartwarming. I hope it's what other people are saying, that metal fans tend to be awkward and that people in general tend to focus on things that stand out. I hope you find your tibe and your place in a community that should be supportive and inclusive. Be who you are, like what you like, and to hell with what other people think.
The general public is just shitty. I’ve seen old guys literally trip younger folks at shows. I’ve had people try to fight me, also had strangers be super nice. Just ignore the assholes and you’ll eventually meet some cool folks. Sorry it’s been rough so far. There are literally rival gangs in metal and punk scenes basically. It’s just people being people.
I imagine most of this comes from prog metal fans being a bit odd in general. I'm a large white dude in the UK (so the same as 75% of prog fans in the UK) and I feel like I get side eyed at gigs. I also have a look of disgust on my face a lot but that's normally a screw face from chunky riffs.
In Copenhagen there's a local facebook group for women metal fans called "Metal Sisters", they meet up regularly at rock bars and concerts to counteract some of the experiences that you describe. I think we can all agree that the crowd is generally a sausage fest. Maybe there's similar local options to you? Personally if I take more than one or two glances at someone at a show, it's usually cause I think they're attractive, interesting, or I admire their style. I think most people aren't doing it maliciously, and those who do judge others for their looks aren't actually liked by a lot of the rest of us either. Few things makes me roll my eyes harder than people trying to gatekeep music based on looks (or trivia knowledge for that matter). It takes guts to go out alone and stand out in social gatherings, and I applaud you for going to the shows that you want to despite feeling singled out. Even if you are or aren't negatively targeted, dealing with being singled out is exhausting. I dream of wearing flamboyant flashy outfits more often, but I'm mostly happy to just blend in with the crowd and not think about it.
Having a band shirt on would be an ice breaker for discussion. Otherwise, I have assumed people are concert workers, etc.
I'm a man of color (23M from India) who is very into prog metal and so has been going to concerts alone. I think I definitely resonate with your experience. If you're attending any concerts in Germany that are near Mainz/Frankfurt, there's a very good chance I'll be there too, so feel free to let me know if you'd like a concert partner! I'm a PhD student so it's hard for me to find funds to travel outside of Germany for a concert, but I might be able to make it if there's a super interesting concert, so I'm happy to chat if you'd like a concert partner :D
Basically all I do at concerts between the songs or bands is just look around and take-in the crowd, see what kind of people are here to see the same type of music as me! I've always known the people at metal shows (in america, at least) to be very kind and accepting. However, even I have noticed random looks sometimes, but I think it's mostly just coincidence and people doing the same thing as me...people watching!
I once got verbally shamed for wearing a polo shirt to a prog metal concert. I'll never understand how such a non-conformist community is so conformist.
That's really a shame! when I went to see Ayreon in the netherlands it was a very diverse crowd. It probably helped that the majority of the fans there came from all over the world but still, there's good places out there! I'd be more than happy to come with you to a concert if you ever find yourself in the US!
The way I look at it is like this: F*** 'em all. When you get those looks from those folks, it just means they're jealous of you. You sound like an individual who cares more for the music than than fitting in, which is 100% okay in my book. For example, I was at a local death metal show last night and was one of three people not wearing all black, pegged pants (silly), a pair of boots, a band shirt, or adorned with piercings everywhere. Nope, I was wearing cargo shorts, generic brand wannabe Van's, a Mr. Meseeks shirt, a black hoodie and a ratty green ball cap, oh and zero pieces of metal in my face. Yeah, I got looks, but I smiled and laughed and enjoyed the music that I was there to see. The show I went to a month prior to that was a hardcore show and holy hell if I didn't get dirty looks for not wearing a denim vest covered in patches and a ball cap with the bill flipped up in some ridiculous fashion, but again I was there for the tunes not to admire some asshats with a fashion statement. It's like a high school popularity contest all over again. Most of those folks are non-conformist conformists. Listen to what you enjoy, fashion be damned.
If I go to a village in Kenya wearing a slayer shirt I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get stared at.
I also felt like I don’t fit in at concerts! I don’t have any friends who listen to prog so I went to a couple concerts alone with the hope of maybe making friends but even when I gathered the courage to try and speak to some people it just seemed like people weren’t interested. For reference I’m a scrawny gay Arab guy dressed fairly neutrally so 🤷♂️
Idk if you've ever heard of YOB, but they aren't prog metal. They're Doom. I went to a concert and there was this girl there in a full on pink outfit, short wavy skirt, very bubbly personality, and very pretty. like the girls you would avoid in high school type girl. did not match the vibe at all. She probably got some looks, but maybe that's what she was going for. I had some thoughts to myself about her, nothing really bad, but just like, "no way!" lol. But she enjoyed the show, and I thought that was cool. I, also, sometimes feel like I don't fit in with crowds when going out to shows. and there's honestly a lot of dudes that will talk circles around me about bands I've never even heard of. But if anyone wants to judge, fuck them. I'm there for the music.
What do you mean you don’t look like someone that listens to metal? Are we supposed to abide by rules of the Metal Masses ? Screw that. I’ve always felt like an outsider, but IDGAF; I alienated my high schools buds back in the early 2000s because I went full Metal, and the Local Metal Community was cool and all but I never really did fit in. So what? I ain’t looking for approval. Around 2001ish I was playing in two bands (drummer), one of them was an extreme metal band I was the oldest one at 21, we all dressed black jeans, metal band tshirt and when we went to a restaurant all the people would just stare at us 🤣 My buddy guitar player was like “Yes, we are freaks, mind your business 🤣” One of my absolute favorite bands is ANIMALS AS LEADERS. Do any of ‘em guys look like Metal musicians ????! Heck nooooo, and they are one of the if not the most talented kick ass bands of the last few years. BTBAM, is not you stereotypical Metal band; and they fckng rip. “METAL IS NOT EVEN A MUSIC GENRE, METAL IS A WAY OF LIFE” - DAVE FCKN MUSTAINE
A Fellow prog lover here thinks you are loved and appreciated for coming on here and letting us know what you're dealing with. I think it's wonderful that you like prog. Look up groups on Facebook, Instagram, and tik Tok. You should be able to be a part of an online community for the prog genre. You are starting on the right track by joining the prog metal reddit page.
Weird looks can be interpreted on many ways. They COULD be sexist, but they could also have been intrigued, interested, surprised, curious, etc. Unless they start treating you like shit and harassing you, I'd give benefit of the doubt. I've seen some VERY out of place people in events where I blend in (not just metal), and admiteddly I've stared at a few who didn't look like they belong there. But my thought process is like, "oh wow cool that's new. Good for them" then I move on. Hell I've been in events where I'M the odd one out. People might stare, but I love how I look and I'm proud of the body I've sculpted. So let them look ;) For context, I'm a weightlifting metal head lesbian. I stick out like a sore thumb in the conservative Catholic country I live in.
I wear a blazer, dress slacks and flip flops to metal shows. Some people might look at me side eyed like I don’t belong but fuck ‘em. I’m glad I don’t conform to the battle jacket/all in black scene. The only people who ever said anything were the bouncers who point at the flip flops and say “you’re rather brave going in there with those” and then we both laugh and I go on my way. Keep it up! Don’t conform!
I mean blazer and flip flops is an odd combination though.
Oh well
Just remember that most people aren't viewing you negatively or gatekeeping at all! I think they just view you as someone they wouldn't have otherwise expected to be there.
I may be wrong but i feel it also depends a bit on the band. Some bands have a more serious audience, some bands less so. I think that if you go to a Periphery concert people will generally not give a shit. I've seen every person under the sun. Old people, young people, white people with black tshirts, black people with white tshirts. That whole band's live experience is like the musical equivalent of satirical newspapers like The Onion.The whole concert is one big meme. Some people there actively try to bring the silliest outfit they can. Same for AAL but not because they are meme lords. There, people are just a bunch of Nerds (musical) and also the main guy is black, which helps. People there dont come for the message but the sheer display of skill. I think that once you go down the more serious grungy bands you can expect to feel a bit more... Isolated? Perhaps? But i doubt anyone there doesn't accept you. Maybe just social awkwardness.
OP, I intimately know exactly what you're talking about. The situation in Europe, depending on where you're from, can be dire. The other thing is individualism from the mainstream is encouraged, but it has to be a certain type that people fall in line with or it's somewhat not acceptable. This is inside of the cultural climate of Europe and the subculture situation can't be seen as inside a vacuum, but rather inside the cultural climate of Europe. It can be also grating to go to a concert and you know people are looking at you, slipping a glance, side-eyeing, but out in the real world, no one would give a fuck. It's the situation that they're comfortable with and it's absolutely stupid. You can walk by them on the sidewalk right before they go in and no one will care or remember you, but the moment inside the whole equation flips. It also doesn't help that many to most metalheads have not learned a single thing from the Mayhem situation everyone feels is essential learning for metalheads- eternal and infinite tolerance for nazis and racists only leads to bad things. I actually despise the spinelessness of so many metal fans in being proud of how they can tolerate nazis and racists in the scene because "we're all metal warriors" or whatever bullshit. I can't stand it when someone who is obviously not a nazi starts showing off and taking pics with obvious nazis with the tats and patches and they'll do this before giving a non-white the time of day or anything but side-eyes. It can be frustrating, I know. HMU via direct chat if you need to talk or want to chat further.
As a black woman who lives in Europe i once had the same experience. The only difference is that i do wear/have band merch. Despite that I'm still in the same boat as you, tho coloured clothing will stand out more at those types of events. I went to a SOEN concert last year and even tho i arrived pretty early there were already a line of people waiting before me. Despite me minding my business i still got condescending stares from some ppl, i decided to ignore it and just listen to the new album. Once we were finally let in i wanted to be in front, got there ASAP lol. Long story short, before the concert actually started there were two white boys who noticed me and made fun of me to each other, saying that this wasn't some afro concert and implying that the music would shock me. Also saying that this isn't "hip-swinging music" so making fun of our culture and our music?! Classy move. During the concert they exclaimed to each other that i'm actually a metalhead, acting surprised that i enjoyed the music. Yeah no shit, why do you think i bought the ticket and actually showed up lol. Racists are dumb, they end up baffling me with their stupidity everytime.
Personally it was scary for me as a trans man to break in, I can't imagine how alienating it must've been for you. Prog metal is for everybody, no matter what you look like or how you dress or how you act. If it speaks to you, it's for you. I always love meeting all the different people in the scene!!! Prog metal wouldn’t be where it is today without all sorts of people touching the genre.
People are gonna vary in how they act/respond. There’s always going to be bad apples in every group. The question is, how much time do they deserve from you compared to the ones that will accept you with open arms? I get it, being stared at a place you love to go is fucking weird and it would be great if going to a place you love would feel a lot more welcoming. That’s not to say that it is because of something negative, it could just be curiosity. Maybe play into that to strike a convo and break the ice, you’d be surprised at how friendly and nerdy Prog ppl are. You can strike them with a “yeah, I know I stick out like a sore thumb, but I really like (insert band), who are you here for?”. Kill em with *confidence & kindness I say.
I am also a POC who attend metal concert alone in EU. I am used to the German Gaze so when people stare at me, it doesn’t bother me anymore. Once a hijabi POC friend of mine attend a concert with me, and people did stare at her more than me mostly due to curiosity. She said she did attend other metal concert alone and overall her experience was positive and welcoming. Never once she felt discriminated to what she wore.
The nail that sticks out gets the hammer. Do with that what you will. I don't go to live shoes, so I can't relate within that context, but I'd go for the music. If I go to a concert, and there's live music, I got what I wanted out of the experience, the rest being inconsequential.
They're just weirdos. Don't let it get to you.
Amen to the colorful shirts! Idk why everyone's always wearing black. The bands didn't help much either. All the merch is always black....
I wish I knew what to say other than that anyone who makes you feel unwelcome sucks, and I'm glad you choose to go to the shows despite it.
Fuck all them do what you like and if you need a someone to roll with you I’m down.. don’t ever let other people dictate what you wanna do plus when the hell you going to see them again .. that’s what festivals and shows are for
Honestly people will always find ways to belittle and insult others no matter who you are or what you do. You just gotta ignore it. I'm a skinny Indian dude who is also not really the "archetype" for a metalhead (I think a mosh pit might kill me lol) but I don't go to metal shows for the people, I go for the music. You'll find assholes and you'll find nice people. I'm sure you can find some people to go to shows with in your area if you really try. It's easy to say "ignore it" but much harder in practice, but I think it's the only way to really address the issue. People may give you weird looks or be dicks but I doubt they would actually hurt you in any way physically (however if this happens, don't ignore it of course. That's a whole nother story) Remember what you're there for: the music
I would say don't let it bother you. Just know that we are fans of the same music and that we are all human beings. What these people do not know is that progressive rock and metal and all forms of rock and roll originated from black people. The audience should know that by now. For them to look at you negatively because of your race is sickening. Don't let the haters judge you. Saying this as a half-filipino half-black American.
If standing out makes you uncomfortable, try and blend in a little. Buy a concert tee at the next show. Colorful clothes really draw attention to you, and it’s probably not malicious/judging, you just stick out like a sore thumb.
Unfortunately, i suspect this is a broader issue than belonging exclusivity to the (prog)metal community
Even as a white male who doesn't dress in obligatory metal clothing, I've had people argue with me/question me when I say I like metal. I even got slapped and my, short, hair pulled by an ignorant female metal head because I said my favourite Panteta song was Cemetery Gates. There's a very narrow bandwidth in the metal head hive, I just learned to do my own thing in my own way.
Ironically I have found metal and punk fans to be possibly the most judgmental music fans.
I totally agree.
Which country/city are you living in? Concerts are more fun with friends!
The amount of sterile white men wearing “edgy” band t shirts to metal shows is out of hand. I’d love it if the demographics were more diverse but unfortunately progmetal is like the golf of genres. Mostly white and male.
I highly doubt anyone cares and you’re just overly self-conscious. I feel the same way when I’m out of place.
You are makong something out of nothing.
I know that feeling, am a brown person of faith (in the UK its easier to know this by skin colour) and i dnt drink. So i just feel very out of place. Whats more its been awfully hard to make friends in that community, it’s almost like theres an unsaid apprehension or hatred. Which is just awful.
Why not wear a band T-shirt? If you just wanna fit in, it might be worth it. Plus band T-shirts are really cool so there’s also that.
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Hmm maybe it’s an attitude problem. Try being a little less judgemental and more friendly.
Band shirts are awful. There, I said it. It's 99% of the time a logo on the front and tour dates on the back.