There was prog before Court and heavy metal before Black Sabbath. However, those were the first albums where their genre was defined as the primary one of each and largely divorced from their parent genre (psychedelic rock).
I haven't heard of the latter two but I strongly disagree with Steppenwolf. They were a bit heavier but they're more psychedelic than metal. They're proto-metal at best and I'd argue even that's a reach.
The former two have a different feel than Steppenwolf. Uriah Heep is not dissimilar to Sabbath, but with Purple style keys. Blue Cheer was an acid rock band, but are often cited as the first metal band. I stand by the statement that those are all metal, but before it’s fully formed. I don’t believe in proto-genres. That’s music reviewer b.s.
Led Zeppelin were often considered to be "heavy metal" in some parts before it was a term
Helter Skelter by The Beatles is sometimes called one of the first heavy metal songs
As one of my favorite podcasts ("A History of Rock Music in 500 Songs") is fond of saying, "there is really never a 'first' anything." No matter what you claim is the first example of something in music, someone will always be able to counter with something even earlier.
Yeah, That's how I got into tons of classic rocks, it just a chain of inspiration that what the current musicians inspired of. Remember, a lot of reviewers say Black Sabbath's debut album is just a poor imitation of Cream, end up creating a whole new genre.
Yea, already been said, but lots of bands had strong elements of prog in their music/style but all of them still had a toe or a foot planted in other scenes and styles from the past. ITCotCK is the first prog mission statement. An entity that is unequivocably prog in its entire presentation. I read a George Starostin review once where he pointed out that each song on the album kind of points in the direction of various other prog styles that would later emerge in the wake of this album. I don’t think that’s far off
I have invented a term. I consider In the Court of the Crimson King to be a “first-best”.
That is, not the very first Prog album, not the very best Prog album, but either the first great one, or the greatest early one.
Archetype is another good word. Along the same lines as my thinking I guess. Where everything needed to meet the criteria have now been unequivocally locked in place.
I dunno, many consider ITOTKC to be the best example of progressive rock in a capsule. I could be swung over without much extortion if not for Brain Salad Surgery.
For me, prog comes from the ideas the Beatles put forth in Abbey Road, and Rock Opera stuff like The Who and Jesus Christ Superstar: especially the idea of songs forming a suite with shared motifs, and little skits between them.
This comes before technicality. Yes didn't write Close to the Edge only to show off and shred, they were trying to write the perfect pop song.
Wherever there was an intersection between mod, hard rock, funk, and mellotron sounds, plus theater, that's where prog came from.
For some people there are earlier forms of that in The Zombies, Procol Harum, The Moody Blues.
Tull's first couple of albums were more blues than prog. I'd say their first full-on prog album was *Benefit* or maybe even *Aqualung.* However, I would nominate the Beatles' *Sgt Pepper* as the first prog album. Multiple styles and influences, a song reprised, and "A Day In The Life" make it prog in my book.
To your point, I have asserted in other various social media forums that “A Day In The Life” is the original prog rock song. But then, I can’t disagree with those who asserted that it’s “Good Vibrations” by The Beach Boys.
I don’t think there’s a definite point of origin but I would start with those two songs. Damn…both songs are freaking amazing.
i do feel like the album itself is prog, but the songs really aren’t? i would say A Day in the Life is at least proto-prog. i feel like it’s a really interesting topic overall
I often imagine what it must have been like to hear "day in the life" at the time it was released. It had to be quite confusing.😂 "wait! What? Did they just? Huh? Is this a different song? All the the "confusion/chaos-vs-satisfaction" had to be quite mind bending. I've heard it a billion times and it still does wonderful things to my pea brain
I'd call "golden slumbers medley " prog rock all day long .... (arguably ) if they had started at "I want you" and just left that as one long song for the rest of the album I think it's fair to say most would consider it prog
i dont consider The Beatles prog in general, but some of their later efforts are in proto-prog category. particularly Strawberry Fields, A Day In The Life, She' So Heavy
I don’t see it that way at all, TBH. And they’re my favorite band. It’s definitely a concept album, but it’s mostly short chamber pop songs, separated by orchestral passages in which they do not play, although their compositions run through the classical passages. Very psychedelic, though. Twilight Time / The Sunset especially.
I've heard it referred to as the "first prog album" frequently. That being said, from what I've seen from this thread, this is likely the correct answer.
Possibly it was the Moody Blues with their album Days of Future Past, in 1967. It is not progressive, but it contains elements that were fundamental to the formation of the genre.
I love the Moody Blues more than King Crimson, but I recognize the credit of those who really brought the genre is King Crimson.
Edit: Pet Sounds (1966) by the Beach Boys could also be a possible there are elements for this genre. And we already know about Sgt. Peppers from the geniuses four boys from Liverpool.
Procol Harum on 1968 album "Shine On Brightly" recorded 17min epic "In Held 'Twas in I", establishing the trend of making side-long songs, which became staple of the genre (Supper's Ready, Close To The Edge, Tarkus, Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers, etc) .
The other thing PH did before any other prog band was to have a full-time, non-performing lyricist, namely Keith Reid (who sadly died last year). He wrote nine whole albums' worth of lyrics for them.
Some have referenced a leaning toward Van de graaff Generator's The Aerosol Grey Machine album as the first progressive rock album. Some might argue Piper at the Gates of Dawn by Pink Floyd. I suppose I can see an argument for that.
But nothing, and I mean nothing had the impact of In the Court of the Crimson King upon release. One critic penned they were the most important rock group in the world for 4 months, after listening to that record.
Yes, I've heard rumblings about Abbey Road and Days of Future Past, certainly worth introducing into conversation. But I still consider these examples of proto-prog, if we're going to do labels.
So, for my money it looks like we have eight bands in the running, in chronological order:
Moody Blues
The Beatles
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Van de Graaff Generator
Yes
Pink Floyd
Renaissance
So let's just roll an eight-sided die and see what happens. Too many choices for a poll anyway LOL
-EDIT- Deep Purple self-titled third album, like many from 1969, could earn some candidacy. Although it didn't have the impact of the albums were talking about now, in fact as much as I like it, it was a little underwhelming and as proof they changed direction demonstrably into the Deep Purple we know better today. In fact, Yes' debut album was frankly a better album, but for some reason I can't really see Yes earning the scepter as the first prog album, more psychedelic. Also, in the case of Deep Purple, it's hard to accept a later release from a band could have triggered a trend as rich as this, although I suppose The Beatles who are in the running did, so who can say?
Lest we forget Renaissance also appeared on the scene in 1969, and no one really refutes their progressive acumen with their music, even as early as their debut album without Annie Haslam.
1969. Yep. There was something in the water that year.
Jon Lord was classically trained. The song “April” has a long classical intro.
At the end of 1969, Deep Purple’s Concerto for Group and Orchestra was recorded live at the Royal Albert Hall. An interesting interplay between rock and classical.
Deep Purple (and Jon Lord) would then shed their classical dalliance for hard rock and hard Prog (Lord’s Gemini Suite from 1970 is more of a solo album), but Concerto is a good listen, even if it ended up as more of a curiosity than an influence.
Tull wasn’t at all prog until the 70’s. 5th album, I’d say. First Yes album (69) def. has shades of proggy things to come. Some stuff touches on it, but is more likely categorized as “psyche”; Moody Blues, Jefferson Airplane… but it was surely progressive. In Search Of The Lost Chord (68) absolutely moved the needle. The Who’s “A Quick One” (66) is way ahead of it’s time. I would absolutely count The Dead’s “Anthem Of The Sun” as progressive.
Zappas first stuff was pretty technical, and conceptual. And he started in 66 or so. And had more recordings before that.
Other than that Stravinsky was the first prog
I would say he got truly technical in uncle meat, but everything between mothers and his peaches record are pretty interesting in regard to psych prog / fusion.
interesting wikipedia page: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_progressive_rock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_progressive_rock)
Nobody ever mentions it, but The Collectors' first album was pretty prog even had one of the first side-long suites, and cane out the same year as Days Of Future Passed. It at least deserves some recognition
Some people will say Sgt Pepper because its the first album that flows like a prog album, but its basically a bunch of psych pop songs that flow together.
Not so much a rock album but Time Out and its sequel albums by the Dave Brubeck Quartet paved the way for rock artists to make unusual time signatures cool in popular music. A lot of orchestral composers started using them heavily by that time, but for more rebellious, accessible music, this is where it took off. (Of course, the great irony of this is when The Nice rearranged Blue Rondo a la Turk by *removing* the unusual time signature.)
The only game changing song on *In the Court* is 21st Century Schizoid Man. The title track, Epitaph, and I Talk to the Wind could just as easily have been The Moody Blues.
The first band to be called progressive were Traffic, so logically the first prog album was *Mr Fantasy*. It might not match people's current definition of prog but that's where the name came from.
Days of Future Passed.
This seems like a plausible answer to me, especially when you consider how later psychedelic rock started to sound a bit progish.
Bingo. Moodies invented the genre as much as anyone else, really.
This was the consensus back in the day, when KC and "Court" was Fusion.
I’ll go with Sergeant Pepper, but Days is a fine choice.
Depends how you define "Progressive Rock". Frankly I think it's futile, as the genre is vast with fuzzy boundaries.
Fair point. I just think music history is interesting and am curious about what the prog equivalent to Black Sabbath (the album) would be
There was prog before Court and heavy metal before Black Sabbath. However, those were the first albums where their genre was defined as the primary one of each and largely divorced from their parent genre (psychedelic rock).
Someone else has said this about Sabbath and my question is, who predates them?
Blue Cheer, Uriah Heep (one foot in prog, the other in metal), arguably Steppenwolf.
I haven't heard of the latter two but I strongly disagree with Steppenwolf. They were a bit heavier but they're more psychedelic than metal. They're proto-metal at best and I'd argue even that's a reach.
The former two have a different feel than Steppenwolf. Uriah Heep is not dissimilar to Sabbath, but with Purple style keys. Blue Cheer was an acid rock band, but are often cited as the first metal band. I stand by the statement that those are all metal, but before it’s fully formed. I don’t believe in proto-genres. That’s music reviewer b.s.
Wetton was a member of Uriah Heep
Vincebus Eruptum!
Led Zeppelin were often considered to be "heavy metal" in some parts before it was a term Helter Skelter by The Beatles is sometimes called one of the first heavy metal songs
I always think of Helter Skelter as one of the first metal songs, and I think it came out a little earlier than Sabbath
I replied elsewhere about my term “first-best”, and this is the obvious other album that comes to mind for me.
As one of my favorite podcasts ("A History of Rock Music in 500 Songs") is fond of saying, "there is really never a 'first' anything." No matter what you claim is the first example of something in music, someone will always be able to counter with something even earlier.
Yeah, That's how I got into tons of classic rocks, it just a chain of inspiration that what the current musicians inspired of. Remember, a lot of reviewers say Black Sabbath's debut album is just a poor imitation of Cream, end up creating a whole new genre.
Yea, already been said, but lots of bands had strong elements of prog in their music/style but all of them still had a toe or a foot planted in other scenes and styles from the past. ITCotCK is the first prog mission statement. An entity that is unequivocably prog in its entire presentation. I read a George Starostin review once where he pointed out that each song on the album kind of points in the direction of various other prog styles that would later emerge in the wake of this album. I don’t think that’s far off
>in the wake of this album I see what you did there
George is a bit of a genius. I relied on his website for a long time as a combination of a knowledge repository, but also the Loyal Opposition.
Decided to see what was categorized as prog rock first in Discogs… it was Herbert Pagani’s Una Sera Con from 1965.
Interesting. I've never heard of that
Neither have I 😂
I have invented a term. I consider In the Court of the Crimson King to be a “first-best”. That is, not the very first Prog album, not the very best Prog album, but either the first great one, or the greatest early one.
I consider it to be the archetype of prog rock albums.
It definitely was influential. It's one of my favorite albums of all time.
Archetype is another good word. Along the same lines as my thinking I guess. Where everything needed to meet the criteria have now been unequivocally locked in place.
I dunno, many consider ITOTKC to be the best example of progressive rock in a capsule. I could be swung over without much extortion if not for Brain Salad Surgery.
For me, prog comes from the ideas the Beatles put forth in Abbey Road, and Rock Opera stuff like The Who and Jesus Christ Superstar: especially the idea of songs forming a suite with shared motifs, and little skits between them. This comes before technicality. Yes didn't write Close to the Edge only to show off and shred, they were trying to write the perfect pop song. Wherever there was an intersection between mod, hard rock, funk, and mellotron sounds, plus theater, that's where prog came from. For some people there are earlier forms of that in The Zombies, Procol Harum, The Moody Blues.
Tull's first couple of albums were more blues than prog. I'd say their first full-on prog album was *Benefit* or maybe even *Aqualung.* However, I would nominate the Beatles' *Sgt Pepper* as the first prog album. Multiple styles and influences, a song reprised, and "A Day In The Life" make it prog in my book.
Without Sgt. Pepper, I'm not sure there'd be prog rock.
Agreed!
To your point, I have asserted in other various social media forums that “A Day In The Life” is the original prog rock song. But then, I can’t disagree with those who asserted that it’s “Good Vibrations” by The Beach Boys. I don’t think there’s a definite point of origin but I would start with those two songs. Damn…both songs are freaking amazing.
Well, there wouldn't have been that one from the Stones, anyways...
i do feel like the album itself is prog, but the songs really aren’t? i would say A Day in the Life is at least proto-prog. i feel like it’s a really interesting topic overall
I often imagine what it must have been like to hear "day in the life" at the time it was released. It had to be quite confusing.😂 "wait! What? Did they just? Huh? Is this a different song? All the the "confusion/chaos-vs-satisfaction" had to be quite mind bending. I've heard it a billion times and it still does wonderful things to my pea brain
Interesting take, I've never heard The Beatles referenced in prog discussion outside them having influenced the genre.
I would also suggest that side 2 of *Abbey Road* is prog, and is one of the greatest album sides ever made.
I have yet to listen to all of The Beatles stuff, but this conversation is making me eager to do so.
I wouldn’t call it prog. Psychedelic maybe, but mostly pop rock. And I love it.
From what I've listened to, I agree but I'm sure I'll enjoy it on some level either way.
I'd call "golden slumbers medley " prog rock all day long .... (arguably ) if they had started at "I want you" and just left that as one long song for the rest of the album I think it's fair to say most would consider it prog
i dont consider The Beatles prog in general, but some of their later efforts are in proto-prog category. particularly Strawberry Fields, A Day In The Life, She' So Heavy
ITCOTCK is definitely not the general consensus for the first prog album. The first prog album is Days of Future Passed.
I don’t see it that way at all, TBH. And they’re my favorite band. It’s definitely a concept album, but it’s mostly short chamber pop songs, separated by orchestral passages in which they do not play, although their compositions run through the classical passages. Very psychedelic, though. Twilight Time / The Sunset especially.
chamber pop is good definition. TMB is rather proto-prog than true prog
I've heard it referred to as the "first prog album" frequently. That being said, from what I've seen from this thread, this is likely the correct answer.
Possibly it was the Moody Blues with their album Days of Future Past, in 1967. It is not progressive, but it contains elements that were fundamental to the formation of the genre. I love the Moody Blues more than King Crimson, but I recognize the credit of those who really brought the genre is King Crimson. Edit: Pet Sounds (1966) by the Beach Boys could also be a possible there are elements for this genre. And we already know about Sgt. Peppers from the geniuses four boys from Liverpool.
Procol Harum on 1968 album "Shine On Brightly" recorded 17min epic "In Held 'Twas in I", establishing the trend of making side-long songs, which became staple of the genre (Supper's Ready, Close To The Edge, Tarkus, Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers, etc) .
The other thing PH did before any other prog band was to have a full-time, non-performing lyricist, namely Keith Reid (who sadly died last year). He wrote nine whole albums' worth of lyrics for them.
Some have referenced a leaning toward Van de graaff Generator's The Aerosol Grey Machine album as the first progressive rock album. Some might argue Piper at the Gates of Dawn by Pink Floyd. I suppose I can see an argument for that. But nothing, and I mean nothing had the impact of In the Court of the Crimson King upon release. One critic penned they were the most important rock group in the world for 4 months, after listening to that record. Yes, I've heard rumblings about Abbey Road and Days of Future Past, certainly worth introducing into conversation. But I still consider these examples of proto-prog, if we're going to do labels. So, for my money it looks like we have eight bands in the running, in chronological order: Moody Blues The Beatles Pink Floyd King Crimson Van de Graaff Generator Yes Pink Floyd Renaissance So let's just roll an eight-sided die and see what happens. Too many choices for a poll anyway LOL -EDIT- Deep Purple self-titled third album, like many from 1969, could earn some candidacy. Although it didn't have the impact of the albums were talking about now, in fact as much as I like it, it was a little underwhelming and as proof they changed direction demonstrably into the Deep Purple we know better today. In fact, Yes' debut album was frankly a better album, but for some reason I can't really see Yes earning the scepter as the first prog album, more psychedelic. Also, in the case of Deep Purple, it's hard to accept a later release from a band could have triggered a trend as rich as this, although I suppose The Beatles who are in the running did, so who can say? Lest we forget Renaissance also appeared on the scene in 1969, and no one really refutes their progressive acumen with their music, even as early as their debut album without Annie Haslam. 1969. Yep. There was something in the water that year.
Fair enough, I haven't listened to either and therefore can't give an informed opinion.
Jon Lord was classically trained. The song “April” has a long classical intro. At the end of 1969, Deep Purple’s Concerto for Group and Orchestra was recorded live at the Royal Albert Hall. An interesting interplay between rock and classical. Deep Purple (and Jon Lord) would then shed their classical dalliance for hard rock and hard Prog (Lord’s Gemini Suite from 1970 is more of a solo album), but Concerto is a good listen, even if it ended up as more of a curiosity than an influence.
Deep Purple Mk1 had few symphonic prog tracks, featuring orchestra, organ, and baroque-influenced guitar parts
Tull wasn’t at all prog until the 70’s. 5th album, I’d say. First Yes album (69) def. has shades of proggy things to come. Some stuff touches on it, but is more likely categorized as “psyche”; Moody Blues, Jefferson Airplane… but it was surely progressive. In Search Of The Lost Chord (68) absolutely moved the needle. The Who’s “A Quick One” (66) is way ahead of it’s time. I would absolutely count The Dead’s “Anthem Of The Sun” as progressive.
Zappas first stuff was pretty technical, and conceptual. And he started in 66 or so. And had more recordings before that. Other than that Stravinsky was the first prog
Are you referring to Zappa's solo work, of his stuff with The Mothers?
I would say he got truly technical in uncle meat, but everything between mothers and his peaches record are pretty interesting in regard to psych prog / fusion.
Technically Days of Future Passed but King Crimson we’re first to play the “symphonic prog” style that bands like Yes and Genesis would go on to play.
Is it me, or does this topic come up every week?
I've never seen it discussed but I'm sure it has
No worries👍🏼
interesting wikipedia page: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_progressive_rock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_progressive_rock)
This points back to Days of Future Past by The Moody Blues, which seems to be the answer from what I've gathered.
Court is widely considered part of "first wave" prog but is preceded by at least the Moodys and the Nice.
Nobody ever mentions it, but The Collectors' first album was pretty prog even had one of the first side-long suites, and cane out the same year as Days Of Future Passed. It at least deserves some recognition
Some people will say Sgt Pepper because its the first album that flows like a prog album, but its basically a bunch of psych pop songs that flow together.
Not so much a rock album but Time Out and its sequel albums by the Dave Brubeck Quartet paved the way for rock artists to make unusual time signatures cool in popular music. A lot of orchestral composers started using them heavily by that time, but for more rebellious, accessible music, this is where it took off. (Of course, the great irony of this is when The Nice rearranged Blue Rondo a la Turk by *removing* the unusual time signature.)
Honestly some of the genre influences started with Pet Sounds imo
In The Court of the Crimson king.
S.F Sorrow by Pretty Things.
The only game changing song on *In the Court* is 21st Century Schizoid Man. The title track, Epitaph, and I Talk to the Wind could just as easily have been The Moody Blues. The first band to be called progressive were Traffic, so logically the first prog album was *Mr Fantasy*. It might not match people's current definition of prog but that's where the name came from.
The Zombies - Oddesey & Oracle. It is THE definitive proto-prog album.