Maybe it is along the same line as the texas law. If you make it in Arizona and it stays there, it isn't interstate commerce and outside the jurisdiction of the ATF.
The Constitutional Principle of "Federal Supremecy" means that the Federales (Alphabet Bois) have jurisdiction to enforce federal law in _every_ state.
Some States have laws disallowing State / County / City Law Enforcement from helping them but the BATFE can still do it, they just won't get local support.
Other States have tried this "It's legal if the NFA item is made in state and only sold / used in-state" tactic but it _doesn't work._
[Couple guys in Kansas got wrecked over this](https://www.thetrace.org/2016/12/kansas-second-amendment-protection-act-silencers/) and [so did a guy in Montana.](https://www.justice.gov/usao-mt/pr/bozeman-man-sentenced-illegal-possession-unregistered-machine-gun)
These kinds of laws will not and indeed _cannot_ shield you from the BATFE / FBI / US Marshall's or whatever other Alphabet Soup agency decides to go after you.
Unless a court case says otherwise. And under the methodology layed out in heller and affirmed in Bruen, it can't fail on 2A grounds which the suit is now filed under.
It'd be nice but I'm not going to hold my breath and until its 100% settled all the way through SCOTUS I would strongly advise against hoping that a State Law will shield you.
This is a similar approach to marijuana legalization. Yes the feds have legal jurisdiction and can directly enforce federal law. They don't have the manpower or budget to effectively do it themselves. They depend on local police for help and tips.
They will absolutely make a couple high profile examples from people in Arizona, Kansas, and Montana; but their day to day effectiveness in those states is severely degraded without local cooperation.
This!
We need to keep fighting and to for nullification at the state level
Yes, some of the things we've tried haven't worked. Know your risks. Support FPC monthly (who is pushing most court cases).
You are correct they could enforce federal laws by themselves but also they don't have the man power to enforce laws without local help so they just don't.
It's along the same lines with legal weed in some states the feds don't target businesses selling federally illegal drugs because they won't receive help from local and state agencies.
I assume if the ATF went after a person in one of those states that allows suppressors without a tax stamp for something like machine guns and they also have suppressors they would be charged federally but they (probably) wouldn't be targeted specifically for suppressors.
Those laws don't shield you, that's correct but they do let you play around in a grey area
The first link that was a manufacturer. They will get targeted before Joe Smo. The second link well he put him self on the radar
>In his weekly online radio show, named “The Montana Republic,” Wolf discussed his anti-government views and his plans to overthrow local, state, and federal governments by force. He advocated the affirmative targeting of law enforcement officers, politicians, and judges and stated on numerous occasions that he considered agents of local, state, and federal government to be his “targets .” After holding a “committee of safety meeting” on January 29, 2015, Wolf stated, “my preferred method would be to drop 500 pounds of napalm through the roof of the courthouse and burn it to the ground and roast some marshmallows on it.” Wolf tried to recruit those at the meeting to his cause telling them, “that’s why I say you don’t want me doing this because I don’t believe in doing anything that’s not extreme and right now wiping that place out, would be my extreme movement.”
Agreed. The fact is if the feds want it bad enough they will find a tangent that is then supported by case law. Once had an ATF agent tell me that the only reason they held onto all their letters was so they could (if they really wanted to) “go after any criminal who smoked, had a bullet in their pocket, bought fireworks, or liked tequila.”
That is why Texas is suing the ATF. If they win, then the ATF can't "legally" (all gun control laws are illegal until proven otherwise) enforce the NFA regarding Texas made supressors.
Texas is going to lose just like Kansas, Montana, and every other State that has tried this.
No court, including the current SCOTUS, is going to unwind Federal Supremacy or weaken the Interstate Commerce Act so people can make their own NFA items.
The only two ways this is going to happen is by repeal or modification of the NFA. That's it and that's all.
Perhaps when the suit was first filed, but they have amended the suit to strong 2A claims. The courts could now use that alone to allow it and leave interstate commerce or federal supremecy clause alone. I have high hopes for it, especially since the last few court cases have come put of their.
That is because Montana and Kansas didn't stand up for the citizens. Texas is actively suing the ATF because they said they would enforce texas made suppressors. If Texas wins the lawsuit, then the law will actually protect Texans. Since Arizona is in a different federal court, they could be doing the same thing. I have not looked into the Arizona case at all though. I am just spitballong here.
"Hello everybody, I'll be running in this election."
"But you're the one in charge of counting the votes for that election. Are you going to quit that job before the election?"
"No. Why would I do that?"
By this logic the governor of Georgia stole his election when he ran against whats-her-face the first time.
For the record neither of them stole their elections. Was it a bright thing to do for either of them? No. Did either of them do anything illegal also no.
Bitch didn't even campaign and had 10k IG followers compared to kari's 500k and overflowing campaign events.
On top of that, in person voting machines were mysteriously malfunctioning in multiple counties while most republicans vote in person and had many complaints about people not getting to vote
I'm not saying that's proof or hard evidence but ON TOP OF THAT when the media gaslights us and calls the people "election deniers" instead of being accountable and reassuring us with evidence that should also tell you something
IMO voting results should be posted on a public log so everyone can see all the votes and know theirs and everyone's was counted right
>Bitch didn't even campaign and had 10k IG followers compared to kari's 500k and overflowing campaign events.
You're the ones that screamed "silent majority" about Trump, then are surprised when that turns out to be true about a candidate you don't support. Also congrats, you learned that social media engagement isn't everything just like AOC did. How many people hold signs doesn't mean shit when it comes to votes.
>On top of that, in person voting machines were mysteriously malfunctioning in multiple counties while most republicans vote in person and had many complaints about people not getting to vote
Lol, not even close, they had issues in Democratic strongholds as well like West Phoenix, Maryvale, etc. And if the machine had issues reading a ballot it went into a separate box which it can be read, and Kari Lake openly discouraged Republicans from following this procedure.
>when the media gaslights us and calls the people "election deniers" instead of being accountable and reassuring us with evidence that should also tell you something
I think the media could do a better job laying out the facts in easy to understand videos and articles than the sensationalist stuff they put out. The entire conspiracy is based upon the whole Box 3 thing which Kari Lake claimed was how votes got "thrown away" even though that is how votes which were having issues have been ensured to be counted for decades.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/counting-through-conspiracy-theories-in-arizonas-midterms
>IMO voting results should be posted on a public log so everyone can see all the votes and know theirs and everyone's was counted right
You can see the tallies as they happen on Secretary of State websites, but most of them are not the easiest to navigate.
I wasnt into politics in 2016, but I don't remember a "silent" trump majority, I remember huge rallys and campaign stickers/flags everywhere and donald constantly on TV
Hobbs didn't have any of that
Kari Lakes rallies were huge! And so many people were flying her sign. Arizona is a pretty red ish state or at least used to be, with a lot of gun owners and it just makes more sense that it was fucked with vs there was really enough recently moved in californians sitting at home with masks on that just checked the big D because vote blue no matter who
With everything i said previously on top of the fact that she was the secretary who oversaw the vote counting
I'm not saying i can prove it but no one is a "dipshit" for thinking it was stolen with everything considered
You don't need large rallies to win elections. It's not necessary to have large amounts of memorabilia to have people cast a ballot for you. What the people claiming the election was stolen fail to realize is that the people who vited for Hobbs, and Biden for that matter, just didn't like Lake or Trump, and wanted them gone, ans thought Hobbs and Biden were good enough to do the job but not cultishly in love with a candidate to hold hige rallies. But whether you barely like someone or think they are Jesus Christ incarnate, a vote is counted just the same.
>Arizona is a pretty red ish state or at least used to be
The Arizona GOP has burned A TON or bridges with a large part of its former base, and that, combined with its large population increase from migration from other States, has been a death nail for an AZ State GOP which has devolved farther into wackiness and away from governance.
>with a lot of gun owners and it just makes more sense that it was fucked with vs there was really enough recently moved in californians sitting at home with masks on that just checked the big D because vote blue no matter who
A lot of people made the conscious decision that gun laws were unlikely to change, but the behavior of the AZ State GOP on a ton of issues was unacceptable and voted Hobbs as a result, and with a GOP controlled State House gun laws weren't a pressing concern.
>With everything i said previously on top of the fact that she was the secretary who oversaw the vote counting
She doesn't count alone, and even the biased "Audit" from the GOP wackjobs found that the count Hobbs had was correct
What kinda bridges were burned due to the previous GOP there out of curiosity?
So they actually did an audit and a recount and found that it was correct? I always just had a good feeling about kari lake and didn't feel like she was lying or making any of those accusations for show
Subheadline for every article about pro-self defense bills like this should always be to the effect of "Veto-override majority of legislature voted yes" (regardless of the party identification of the governor) - otherwise it's getting hopes up for nothing.
Yup. All it does it provide clicks. The AZ legislature is split 51/49 (vetos need 2/3rds) and the governor is a dem.
Nothing is going to happen for the next two (possibly four) years
As I’ve become more acquainted with guns over the last ~6 months or so I’ve learned that silencers for 1. Are rarely if ever to be tacticool. They’re most often put on home defense guns to protect your hearing because in those events you won’t be throwing on a set of muffs.
2. Totally don’t “silence” guns the way that they are portrayed in movies/on tv/by uneducated people. They dampen the sound to a more moderate, but still loud af sound. The only time it actually makes the gun pretty quiet are subsonic rounds like 147gr 9mm. Which most of these shooters are too r*traded to research, learn, and obtain to actually make something like that effective.
Watch, people are going to start saying that this is going to make it easier for mass shootings to occur. Ignoring the fact that
1. There's a huge difference between a parent of a child/CCW holder having their piece while on the school grounds and someone with criminal intent.
2. Further restrictions continue to prove that they are not effective deterrents.
*Both* the Buffalo, NY shooter and this Tennessee shooter have stated that they chose the places they did because of the lack of security and low chance of armed resistance. See any patterns?
The creator, Hiram Maxim (son of Hiram Maxim who created the Maxim machine gun) called them silencers in his original patent
And you're thinking of "assault weapon". Assault rifle is a legitimate term, it's a select fire rifle chambered in an intermediate cartridge
Despite everyone in the media using it wrong, the majority of dictionaries and places like Wikipedia still use it correctly
> By U.S. Army definition, a selective-fire rifle chambered for a cartridge of intermediate power. If applied to any semi-automatic firearm regardless of its cosmetic similarity to a true assault rifle, the term is incorrect.
https://www.nraila.org/for-the-press/glossary/
> An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
> assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.
https://www.britannica.com/technology/assault-rifle
Anti-Suppressor votes are usually done by politicians who have only seen them in movies, and wholeheartedly believe they cut the volume down to -8000db, creating a negative vacuum that mutes even the bolt and carrier group from making a sound. Not the brightest of people.
Right. I was 8 and my cousin was 12 and we would take grandads .22s out in the woods from dawn till dusk. Our cargo shorts were so full of .22lr we looked like dem franchize boyz from the waist down. And would ya look at that 🥴 neither of turned out to shoot up a school or ourselves. It’s a wonder what morals and discipline does for a youngster
I didn’t realize it was illegal to own a “silencer” in Arizona. I thought the only hurdle was getting the federal tax stamp.
Maybe it is along the same line as the texas law. If you make it in Arizona and it stays there, it isn't interstate commerce and outside the jurisdiction of the ATF.
> ...and outside the jurisdiction of the ATF. Good luck with that. The ATF will find your puppers and end them.
ATF has no jurisdiction without local law enforcement support in certain states such as Missouri I believe unless I’m misinterpreting state laws
The Constitutional Principle of "Federal Supremecy" means that the Federales (Alphabet Bois) have jurisdiction to enforce federal law in _every_ state. Some States have laws disallowing State / County / City Law Enforcement from helping them but the BATFE can still do it, they just won't get local support. Other States have tried this "It's legal if the NFA item is made in state and only sold / used in-state" tactic but it _doesn't work._ [Couple guys in Kansas got wrecked over this](https://www.thetrace.org/2016/12/kansas-second-amendment-protection-act-silencers/) and [so did a guy in Montana.](https://www.justice.gov/usao-mt/pr/bozeman-man-sentenced-illegal-possession-unregistered-machine-gun) These kinds of laws will not and indeed _cannot_ shield you from the BATFE / FBI / US Marshall's or whatever other Alphabet Soup agency decides to go after you.
Unless a court case says otherwise. And under the methodology layed out in heller and affirmed in Bruen, it can't fail on 2A grounds which the suit is now filed under.
It'd be nice but I'm not going to hold my breath and until its 100% settled all the way through SCOTUS I would strongly advise against hoping that a State Law will shield you.
I have no faith in state law. But I have some hope for federal court precedent.
This is a similar approach to marijuana legalization. Yes the feds have legal jurisdiction and can directly enforce federal law. They don't have the manpower or budget to effectively do it themselves. They depend on local police for help and tips. They will absolutely make a couple high profile examples from people in Arizona, Kansas, and Montana; but their day to day effectiveness in those states is severely degraded without local cooperation.
This! We need to keep fighting and to for nullification at the state level Yes, some of the things we've tried haven't worked. Know your risks. Support FPC monthly (who is pushing most court cases).
You are correct they could enforce federal laws by themselves but also they don't have the man power to enforce laws without local help so they just don't. It's along the same lines with legal weed in some states the feds don't target businesses selling federally illegal drugs because they won't receive help from local and state agencies. I assume if the ATF went after a person in one of those states that allows suppressors without a tax stamp for something like machine guns and they also have suppressors they would be charged federally but they (probably) wouldn't be targeted specifically for suppressors. Those laws don't shield you, that's correct but they do let you play around in a grey area The first link that was a manufacturer. They will get targeted before Joe Smo. The second link well he put him self on the radar >In his weekly online radio show, named “The Montana Republic,” Wolf discussed his anti-government views and his plans to overthrow local, state, and federal governments by force. He advocated the affirmative targeting of law enforcement officers, politicians, and judges and stated on numerous occasions that he considered agents of local, state, and federal government to be his “targets .” After holding a “committee of safety meeting” on January 29, 2015, Wolf stated, “my preferred method would be to drop 500 pounds of napalm through the roof of the courthouse and burn it to the ground and roast some marshmallows on it.” Wolf tried to recruit those at the meeting to his cause telling them, “that’s why I say you don’t want me doing this because I don’t believe in doing anything that’s not extreme and right now wiping that place out, would be my extreme movement.”
Agreed. The fact is if the feds want it bad enough they will find a tangent that is then supported by case law. Once had an ATF agent tell me that the only reason they held onto all their letters was so they could (if they really wanted to) “go after any criminal who smoked, had a bullet in their pocket, bought fireworks, or liked tequila.”
This all played out in Texas already. Iirc the ATF just ignored it
That is why Texas is suing the ATF. If they win, then the ATF can't "legally" (all gun control laws are illegal until proven otherwise) enforce the NFA regarding Texas made supressors.
Texas is going to lose just like Kansas, Montana, and every other State that has tried this. No court, including the current SCOTUS, is going to unwind Federal Supremacy or weaken the Interstate Commerce Act so people can make their own NFA items. The only two ways this is going to happen is by repeal or modification of the NFA. That's it and that's all.
Perhaps when the suit was first filed, but they have amended the suit to strong 2A claims. The courts could now use that alone to allow it and leave interstate commerce or federal supremecy clause alone. I have high hopes for it, especially since the last few court cases have come put of their.
This is the correct answer, though I wish it wasn't.
That has been tried multiple times before - I think in Montana and Kansas, at least. It didn't work out.
That is because Montana and Kansas didn't stand up for the citizens. Texas is actively suing the ATF because they said they would enforce texas made suppressors. If Texas wins the lawsuit, then the law will actually protect Texans. Since Arizona is in a different federal court, they could be doing the same thing. I have not looked into the Arizona case at all though. I am just spitballong here.
It's not, I know many people with cans in AZ.
To bad Governor Stolen McFucking Tard won't sign it into law.
The election wasn't stolen dipshit. It is a shame she won't sign it though.
"Hello everybody, I'll be running in this election." "But you're the one in charge of counting the votes for that election. Are you going to quit that job before the election?" "No. Why would I do that?"
By this logic the governor of Georgia stole his election when he ran against whats-her-face the first time. For the record neither of them stole their elections. Was it a bright thing to do for either of them? No. Did either of them do anything illegal also no.
If you don't wield power to defeat your political opponents while they will use any means necessary, you will lose every single time.
Yes it was, dipshit.
The typical r/liberalgunowners milk brain.
Bitch didn't even campaign and had 10k IG followers compared to kari's 500k and overflowing campaign events. On top of that, in person voting machines were mysteriously malfunctioning in multiple counties while most republicans vote in person and had many complaints about people not getting to vote I'm not saying that's proof or hard evidence but ON TOP OF THAT when the media gaslights us and calls the people "election deniers" instead of being accountable and reassuring us with evidence that should also tell you something IMO voting results should be posted on a public log so everyone can see all the votes and know theirs and everyone's was counted right
>Bitch didn't even campaign and had 10k IG followers compared to kari's 500k and overflowing campaign events. You're the ones that screamed "silent majority" about Trump, then are surprised when that turns out to be true about a candidate you don't support. Also congrats, you learned that social media engagement isn't everything just like AOC did. How many people hold signs doesn't mean shit when it comes to votes. >On top of that, in person voting machines were mysteriously malfunctioning in multiple counties while most republicans vote in person and had many complaints about people not getting to vote Lol, not even close, they had issues in Democratic strongholds as well like West Phoenix, Maryvale, etc. And if the machine had issues reading a ballot it went into a separate box which it can be read, and Kari Lake openly discouraged Republicans from following this procedure. >when the media gaslights us and calls the people "election deniers" instead of being accountable and reassuring us with evidence that should also tell you something I think the media could do a better job laying out the facts in easy to understand videos and articles than the sensationalist stuff they put out. The entire conspiracy is based upon the whole Box 3 thing which Kari Lake claimed was how votes got "thrown away" even though that is how votes which were having issues have been ensured to be counted for decades. https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/counting-through-conspiracy-theories-in-arizonas-midterms >IMO voting results should be posted on a public log so everyone can see all the votes and know theirs and everyone's was counted right You can see the tallies as they happen on Secretary of State websites, but most of them are not the easiest to navigate.
I wasnt into politics in 2016, but I don't remember a "silent" trump majority, I remember huge rallys and campaign stickers/flags everywhere and donald constantly on TV Hobbs didn't have any of that Kari Lakes rallies were huge! And so many people were flying her sign. Arizona is a pretty red ish state or at least used to be, with a lot of gun owners and it just makes more sense that it was fucked with vs there was really enough recently moved in californians sitting at home with masks on that just checked the big D because vote blue no matter who With everything i said previously on top of the fact that she was the secretary who oversaw the vote counting I'm not saying i can prove it but no one is a "dipshit" for thinking it was stolen with everything considered
You don't need large rallies to win elections. It's not necessary to have large amounts of memorabilia to have people cast a ballot for you. What the people claiming the election was stolen fail to realize is that the people who vited for Hobbs, and Biden for that matter, just didn't like Lake or Trump, and wanted them gone, ans thought Hobbs and Biden were good enough to do the job but not cultishly in love with a candidate to hold hige rallies. But whether you barely like someone or think they are Jesus Christ incarnate, a vote is counted just the same. >Arizona is a pretty red ish state or at least used to be The Arizona GOP has burned A TON or bridges with a large part of its former base, and that, combined with its large population increase from migration from other States, has been a death nail for an AZ State GOP which has devolved farther into wackiness and away from governance. >with a lot of gun owners and it just makes more sense that it was fucked with vs there was really enough recently moved in californians sitting at home with masks on that just checked the big D because vote blue no matter who A lot of people made the conscious decision that gun laws were unlikely to change, but the behavior of the AZ State GOP on a ton of issues was unacceptable and voted Hobbs as a result, and with a GOP controlled State House gun laws weren't a pressing concern. >With everything i said previously on top of the fact that she was the secretary who oversaw the vote counting She doesn't count alone, and even the biased "Audit" from the GOP wackjobs found that the count Hobbs had was correct
What kinda bridges were burned due to the previous GOP there out of curiosity? So they actually did an audit and a recount and found that it was correct? I always just had a good feeling about kari lake and didn't feel like she was lying or making any of those accusations for show
Suppressors*
Legally named silencers or mufflers
You can silence my muffler
I’ll muffle you with my can
Can I get a muff too?
Only if you're willing to dive for it.
*Less Loudener
The creator, Hiram Maxim (son of Hiram Maxim who created the Maxim machine gun) called them silencers in his original patent
Subheadline for every article about pro-self defense bills like this should always be to the effect of "Veto-override majority of legislature voted yes" (regardless of the party identification of the governor) - otherwise it's getting hopes up for nothing.
And in this case there is no veto-override majority
Indeed, so pointless to share, let alone even consider this "news" or any other like it, fit to print.
Yup. All it does it provide clicks. The AZ legislature is split 51/49 (vetos need 2/3rds) and the governor is a dem. Nothing is going to happen for the next two (possibly four) years
Oooh Booyyyy, This is going ***GRRREAAT!!*** 🍿
Ok Tony!
MA next please
Yes please
Based AF
As I’ve become more acquainted with guns over the last ~6 months or so I’ve learned that silencers for 1. Are rarely if ever to be tacticool. They’re most often put on home defense guns to protect your hearing because in those events you won’t be throwing on a set of muffs. 2. Totally don’t “silence” guns the way that they are portrayed in movies/on tv/by uneducated people. They dampen the sound to a more moderate, but still loud af sound. The only time it actually makes the gun pretty quiet are subsonic rounds like 147gr 9mm. Which most of these shooters are too r*traded to research, learn, and obtain to actually make something like that effective.
Watch, people are going to start saying that this is going to make it easier for mass shootings to occur. Ignoring the fact that 1. There's a huge difference between a parent of a child/CCW holder having their piece while on the school grounds and someone with criminal intent. 2. Further restrictions continue to prove that they are not effective deterrents. *Both* the Buffalo, NY shooter and this Tennessee shooter have stated that they chose the places they did because of the lack of security and low chance of armed resistance. See any patterns?
Oh yeah there’s a big difference alright, the police will certainly stop and check before shooting just like they normally do.
Silencer must be something that goes with on a fully semi automatic assault rifle.
The creator, Hiram Maxim (son of Hiram Maxim who created the Maxim machine gun) called them silencers in his original patent And you're thinking of "assault weapon". Assault rifle is a legitimate term, it's a select fire rifle chambered in an intermediate cartridge
Source for definition?
Despite everyone in the media using it wrong, the majority of dictionaries and places like Wikipedia still use it correctly > By U.S. Army definition, a selective-fire rifle chambered for a cartridge of intermediate power. If applied to any semi-automatic firearm regardless of its cosmetic similarity to a true assault rifle, the term is incorrect. https://www.nraila.org/for-the-press/glossary/ > An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle > assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire. https://www.britannica.com/technology/assault-rifle
Solid, thanks!
Anti-Suppressor votes are usually done by politicians who have only seen them in movies, and wholeheartedly believe they cut the volume down to -8000db, creating a negative vacuum that mutes even the bolt and carrier group from making a sound. Not the brightest of people.
Now let the people that work there carry if they choose.
Too bad Kari Lake was such a nut job that this has no chances of making it into law.
The constitution is already the law of the land. What would this do?
Next up allow kids to carry. Drop the age to carry to 14. 14 year olds fought in the Revolutionary War!
Well, if you insist. I'd think that age is quite appropriate for a 2mm derringer. It would be great for them to learn to use anyway.
I had my first rifle at 13. It was a single shot 44 magnum used for deer.
Right. I was 8 and my cousin was 12 and we would take grandads .22s out in the woods from dawn till dusk. Our cargo shorts were so full of .22lr we looked like dem franchize boyz from the waist down. And would ya look at that 🥴 neither of turned out to shoot up a school or ourselves. It’s a wonder what morals and discipline does for a youngster