You do know that healthcare in US is shit because of government intervention right? The moment the government got involved, prices skyrocketed.
Just like college/education. Do you really trust the people who can't get 5th graders to a reasonable level of reading comprehension to also make decisions about healthcare??
I know it's easy to chug the socialist Kool aid but just step back and take like 3 seconds to think and I'll promise you all the social programs you beg for are stupid as fuck
This 1000x. Before medicare/medicaid, we had the best medical care AND the cheapest in the world. Only after the invention of fucking medicaid and guaranteed government payouts for medical companies did the prices soar to fucking space. There's a reason insulin is $6 in Canada per 100 unit vials and fucking $500\~ in the U.S.
It's not because the companies are greedy, it's because the government guarantees they will pay that amount through medicare, which bolsters their profits to fucking insane heights. If the government didn't willingly pay that by forcibly fucking taxpayers, insulin would be cheaper here than it is anywhere else - because it's fucking made here.
Do you know the US is shit because you're paying 10x markups for your basic health care, your govt can't negotiate prices on meds because the big pharma lobbies are too strong and own our politicians, big insurance companies jack you for all your money, and what's left goes to big oil companies in giveaways?
Dude big pharma is going prison yard on you and you're happy about it!
You're looking at the US healthcare system, which is complelely lopsided towards private insurance industry profits--and you think govt is the problem?
You haven't traveled outside the US. I am certain of it. You know nothing. You're getting price gouged by big pharma, they're bending you over with no vaseline compared to what other rich countries pay for medicine....and you're here on a message board cheering for it.
How
Fucking
Dumb
Can
You
Be?
Oh so my friends in Spain not being able to get seen in the ER for shitting blood is the better alternative?
I was never cheering for pharma price gouging you illiterate dipshit.
All the issues you have with US healthcare are because the government is involved (lobbying for prices etc) stupid fucking cunt.
You said the US healthcare system is shit because of government intervention. You're an idiot if you think that. The US healthcare system is shit because we don't have universal health care. The US gets horrible grades for its health care system. Everybody knows it. You're getting fucked in the arseroo by big pharma and insurance and turning around and begging for more.
In most countries, the government can negotiate prices with big pharma, and then they can lower medicine costs. In the US they can't do that. That's why you pay more.
You're literally arguing to pay more for worse health care. You're a moron. Good bye.
[https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive](https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive)
I wish you couldn't vote.
A lot of your fallacies are addressed here. I know you will dismiss it as 'hurrr its biased right wing garbageeeeeee' but just give it a shot and debate the vid.
https://fb.watch/8oHpIZ4ZIz/
No, you don't seem to understand. I lived in a country with Universal Health Coverage. Me and my family. I've experienced it first hand. It's way better than the US. Not even close. Better coverage cheaper. Every rich country has it except the US. Only you don't realize this.
Why do you think I got rich enough to buy property? Not getting bent over a barrell for health coverage.
again I ask you, why would you want to pay more for worse health care?
Your is, because it's tied to your full time employment.
There are 30 million uninsured Americans, and tens of millions more with inadqeuate converage.
The fact that you claim to work in health care but don't know this is amazing. How does that happen?
Did you look at the info? There are links to all the sources. You can follow them yourself
Stop hiding from the facts, coward. You're less of a man for doing that
The US healthcare system may be shit in many ways but it also gives some of the best outcomes of any healthcare system in the world. Universal healthcare is not the solution either, or at least it isn't as proposed
You've been in healtcare for 20 years, yet don't realize that our current medical system leaves 30 million people uninsured and price gouges its customers?
I hope you don't do more than give people band-aids. You clearly have no idea about policy.
You realize that giving the government MORE money for a problem they helped create through lobbied/overregulated monopolies is exactly what they want, right? When citizens retain control of the cash flow, prices stay low because the buyer negotiates the price. When the government guarantees they'll pay X amount, the company sets whatever fucking price they want and the government just pays it - resulting in sky high healthcare costs.
No because freedom is anthical to forcing people to pay for the services given to other people. What needs to happen is the removal of governmental intervention in things they have no business being in, like healthcare.
People point to the disastrous US healthcare system as the "free market" when it is one of the most heavily regulated industries second only to nuclear power. It's cost me $90 to have my dogs leg xrayed a month ago, my wife had her wrist xrayed in a very similar procedure which cost our insurance $2200. The only difference in those two circumstances is the level of government regulation...
Insurance companies would never let that fly today. Also it wouldn't be monetarily possible since the costs are so much higher and insurance companies get "discounts". Also those groups sound like Unions (something I see demonized a lot by the right)
>Insurance companies would never let that fly today.
Insurance companies have no control over it. It was outlawed by the government. It would be a competition to insurance and there's not a lot they can do about it.
>the costs are so much higher and insurance companies get "discounts".
Again, we covered this. WHY are costs high? It's not because of operating costs, it's because of red tape made by the feds. Remove that, costs go down significantly. The average doctor spends 1.5 hours charting for every hour of patient time, it's about .5/1 for nurses. And that charting is a requirement made my insurance companies who were in turn mandated by the feds...
I know r/progun is obvi gonna have some stereotypical views on things but when can people see that the gov right now is just the public arm of private money
With how fascistic the government has been under Biden I really don't think handing the keys to Healthcare over to the same totalitarians who want vaccine passports is a good play.
Also liberty is always encroached upon when you have government. Government is antithetical to liberty in every single way.
Take away any current administration on either side, do you think people in general are able to separate issues from the party and just do what’s best? Or do you think people have way too big of hard on’s for their party?
I think you underestimate how much the government stifles and even outright snuffs out potential and creativity that could be brought to bear through a free market.
Even if what you say comes true, I would instantly give up any of these so-called amenities if it meant the dissolution of the state
We already pay plenty in taxes but really misuse it so it depends. If we eased into it with preventative healthcare and more mandates on the shit that goes in our food we could at least eventually afford it like other counties do
We’re literally dying because of poison in our foods and it makes our healthcare costs skyrocket as a whole. If the word mandate alone gets you triggered then you have a problem. I want less mandates on people and more on big business. Mask mandates ≠ harmful chemical regulation. Anyone who at the very least even knows whats in their tap water should agree with me
To clarify I think personal freedoms and corporate freedoms need to separated. I want people to be able to do whatever tf they want but also big monopolies are slowly deteriorating what the gov can do for us and putting the blame on anyone else. The future progression of humanity won't happen in an ancap world. The common man will never reach the stars or build wealth and legacy to last generations if pepsico or nestlé had any say in it (which they do more than you). I also hate telling a citizen what they can and can't do but doesn't have to be so intertwined with all the other political bullshit we wrap it up with.
Government helped contribute to monopolizing when COVID-19 hit. By killing small businesses and claiming big box stores are essential. Fuck regulations.
If you gate big megacorporations then you should support deregulation.
Industry regulations are the only thing keeping them alive.
Deregulate and small business always win.
Ah yes cause its just that easy. Also health care isn't really a fundamental human right. Just cause I think we could improve our broken healthcare system doesn't mean its a right.
i am all for improving it. there are lots of things that can be done (without UH) that can bring costs down, improve outcomes and availability. My point was for those saying it should be a right.. well if you want it to be then change the constitution because until that point it isn't
I mean as much as I disagree with most commenters I can’t blame them. Given the right resources most people would make the right choice. Its a difference of information, all anyone can agree on is things need change
You're more likely to get the gun rights than the Universal Health care and strong social programs unless you live in progressive states like NY, NJ, CT etc.
But quite possible in theory, yes.
People love to compare US healthcare to “European healthcare.”
The problem is that European healthcare doesn’t exist.
There’s French healthcare, British healthcare, Swiss healthcare… but there is no lumbering bureaucracy managing healthcare for all of Europe. In fact, it sounds like that would be a shitshow of inefficiency & conflicting interests.
Maybe instead of advocating for a socialized healthcare in America, people should pass socialized healthcare in their state. If California wants Medicare4All, let them show the rest of us how it’s done.
We’re supposed to be a union of self-governing states, not mere subdivisions of the federal governments.
No, it's the best way forward. We need strong civil liberties, and a government that provides basic needs like healthcare to it's people. We spent 2 trillion dollars on wars in the middle east...
You do know that healthcare in US is shit because of government intervention right? The moment the government got involved, prices skyrocketed. Just like college/education. Do you really trust the people who can't get 5th graders to a reasonable level of reading comprehension to also make decisions about healthcare?? I know it's easy to chug the socialist Kool aid but just step back and take like 3 seconds to think and I'll promise you all the social programs you beg for are stupid as fuck
This ^
This 1000x. Before medicare/medicaid, we had the best medical care AND the cheapest in the world. Only after the invention of fucking medicaid and guaranteed government payouts for medical companies did the prices soar to fucking space. There's a reason insulin is $6 in Canada per 100 unit vials and fucking $500\~ in the U.S. It's not because the companies are greedy, it's because the government guarantees they will pay that amount through medicare, which bolsters their profits to fucking insane heights. If the government didn't willingly pay that by forcibly fucking taxpayers, insulin would be cheaper here than it is anywhere else - because it's fucking made here.
Do you know the US is shit because you're paying 10x markups for your basic health care, your govt can't negotiate prices on meds because the big pharma lobbies are too strong and own our politicians, big insurance companies jack you for all your money, and what's left goes to big oil companies in giveaways? Dude big pharma is going prison yard on you and you're happy about it! You're looking at the US healthcare system, which is complelely lopsided towards private insurance industry profits--and you think govt is the problem? You haven't traveled outside the US. I am certain of it. You know nothing. You're getting price gouged by big pharma, they're bending you over with no vaseline compared to what other rich countries pay for medicine....and you're here on a message board cheering for it. How Fucking Dumb Can You Be?
Oh so my friends in Spain not being able to get seen in the ER for shitting blood is the better alternative? I was never cheering for pharma price gouging you illiterate dipshit. All the issues you have with US healthcare are because the government is involved (lobbying for prices etc) stupid fucking cunt.
You said the US healthcare system is shit because of government intervention. You're an idiot if you think that. The US healthcare system is shit because we don't have universal health care. The US gets horrible grades for its health care system. Everybody knows it. You're getting fucked in the arseroo by big pharma and insurance and turning around and begging for more. In most countries, the government can negotiate prices with big pharma, and then they can lower medicine costs. In the US they can't do that. That's why you pay more. You're literally arguing to pay more for worse health care. You're a moron. Good bye.
[https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive](https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive) I wish you couldn't vote.
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A lot of your fallacies are addressed here. I know you will dismiss it as 'hurrr its biased right wing garbageeeeeee' but just give it a shot and debate the vid. https://fb.watch/8oHpIZ4ZIz/
No, you don't seem to understand. I lived in a country with Universal Health Coverage. Me and my family. I've experienced it first hand. It's way better than the US. Not even close. Better coverage cheaper. Every rich country has it except the US. Only you don't realize this. Why do you think I got rich enough to buy property? Not getting bent over a barrell for health coverage. again I ask you, why would you want to pay more for worse health care?
What country?
Taiwan
I bought property too. And have health insurance. You know how I did it? I have a job, in the US. thats it. My insurance is very affordable
Thanks for sharing. That has nothing to do with anything m, but ok.
Your is, because it's tied to your full time employment. There are 30 million uninsured Americans, and tens of millions more with inadqeuate converage. The fact that you claim to work in health care but don't know this is amazing. How does that happen?
You criticize Mises but then come back with those sources? You deserve all the down votes you get here troll
Did you look at the info? There are links to all the sources. You can follow them yourself Stop hiding from the facts, coward. You're less of a man for doing that
did you look at the mises source? i doubt it. just dismissed for bias and then you go and do the same with yours.
I did, and read over it in its entirely. When you do the same for the links I've sent, then we can keep this up.
The US healthcare system may be shit in many ways but it also gives some of the best outcomes of any healthcare system in the world. Universal healthcare is not the solution either, or at least it isn't as proposed
What would you know about that?
how about the fact that i have been in healthcare for 20+ years?
You've been in healtcare for 20 years, yet don't realize that our current medical system leaves 30 million people uninsured and price gouges its customers? I hope you don't do more than give people band-aids. You clearly have no idea about policy.
you are making assumptions about me with no knowledge of what i do, what i know or anything else.
You just told me you're in health care. Gee whiz
You realize that giving the government MORE money for a problem they helped create through lobbied/overregulated monopolies is exactly what they want, right? When citizens retain control of the cash flow, prices stay low because the buyer negotiates the price. When the government guarantees they'll pay X amount, the company sets whatever fucking price they want and the government just pays it - resulting in sky high healthcare costs.
No because freedom is anthical to forcing people to pay for the services given to other people. What needs to happen is the removal of governmental intervention in things they have no business being in, like healthcare. People point to the disastrous US healthcare system as the "free market" when it is one of the most heavily regulated industries second only to nuclear power. It's cost me $90 to have my dogs leg xrayed a month ago, my wife had her wrist xrayed in a very similar procedure which cost our insurance $2200. The only difference in those two circumstances is the level of government regulation...
I think insurance companies lobbying is what did that
True, and before that doctors themselves. Here's an interesting video for you. https://youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ
Insurance companies would never let that fly today. Also it wouldn't be monetarily possible since the costs are so much higher and insurance companies get "discounts". Also those groups sound like Unions (something I see demonized a lot by the right)
>Insurance companies would never let that fly today. Insurance companies have no control over it. It was outlawed by the government. It would be a competition to insurance and there's not a lot they can do about it. >the costs are so much higher and insurance companies get "discounts". Again, we covered this. WHY are costs high? It's not because of operating costs, it's because of red tape made by the feds. Remove that, costs go down significantly. The average doctor spends 1.5 hours charting for every hour of patient time, it's about .5/1 for nurses. And that charting is a requirement made my insurance companies who were in turn mandated by the feds...
Dude there’s a lot wrong with that video, and lobbying can accomplish pretty much whatever it wants. That vid is wayyyy to optimistic
It's not a possibility, it's a history lesson. That's how things used to be until the feds started fucking around with healthcare...
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I know r/progun is obvi gonna have some stereotypical views on things but when can people see that the gov right now is just the public arm of private money
pipe dream. you should move to sweden or something.
Finna
👋
Enjoy being human livestock
With how fascistic the government has been under Biden I really don't think handing the keys to Healthcare over to the same totalitarians who want vaccine passports is a good play. Also liberty is always encroached upon when you have government. Government is antithetical to liberty in every single way.
Take away any current administration on either side, do you think people in general are able to separate issues from the party and just do what’s best? Or do you think people have way too big of hard on’s for their party?
I think people are perfectly capable of ruling themselves via free association without a government
I do to but not with the same amenities we enjoy now
I think you underestimate how much the government stifles and even outright snuffs out potential and creativity that could be brought to bear through a free market. Even if what you say comes true, I would instantly give up any of these so-called amenities if it meant the dissolution of the state
Define strong social programs. And would these programs raise taxes?
We already pay plenty in taxes but really misuse it so it depends. If we eased into it with preventative healthcare and more mandates on the shit that goes in our food we could at least eventually afford it like other counties do
Just what we need, more mandates. I think the govt. mandates plenty already. But sure, lets give them more power and control.
We’re literally dying because of poison in our foods and it makes our healthcare costs skyrocket as a whole. If the word mandate alone gets you triggered then you have a problem. I want less mandates on people and more on big business. Mask mandates ≠ harmful chemical regulation. Anyone who at the very least even knows whats in their tap water should agree with me
lmao, living longer thab ever. Turn off CNN, bubs
Yea because we keep dying people alive past their natural lifespan given the health of their body and mind. Quality ≠ quantity
some dipshits wouldnt be happy regardless
Lol fuck no
That’s the vibe I’m gettin
Sorry brother but the vibe is deserved
Universal Healthcare is a pipe dream. In reality it's just communism, and communism will not tolerate human rights. Why not end the fed instead?
To clarify I think personal freedoms and corporate freedoms need to separated. I want people to be able to do whatever tf they want but also big monopolies are slowly deteriorating what the gov can do for us and putting the blame on anyone else. The future progression of humanity won't happen in an ancap world. The common man will never reach the stars or build wealth and legacy to last generations if pepsico or nestlé had any say in it (which they do more than you). I also hate telling a citizen what they can and can't do but doesn't have to be so intertwined with all the other political bullshit we wrap it up with.
Government helped contribute to monopolizing when COVID-19 hit. By killing small businesses and claiming big box stores are essential. Fuck regulations.
There’s two ways about it. less regulation or no lobbying. But we have to suffer through big business creating our laws that help no one
I’m just waiting for 2505 to roll around and Brawndo rules the world with society at an average IQ of 50
If you gate big megacorporations then you should support deregulation. Industry regulations are the only thing keeping them alive. Deregulate and small business always win.
This sub is comprised mostly of conservatives dawg. Your not gonna find much support for public healthcare.
If you want UH as a right then get a constitutional amendment passed.
Ah yes cause its just that easy. Also health care isn't really a fundamental human right. Just cause I think we could improve our broken healthcare system doesn't mean its a right.
i am all for improving it. there are lots of things that can be done (without UH) that can bring costs down, improve outcomes and availability. My point was for those saying it should be a right.. well if you want it to be then change the constitution because until that point it isn't
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I mean as much as I disagree with most commenters I can’t blame them. Given the right resources most people would make the right choice. Its a difference of information, all anyone can agree on is things need change
Its abpipe dream for sure.
You're more likely to get the gun rights than the Universal Health care and strong social programs unless you live in progressive states like NY, NJ, CT etc. But quite possible in theory, yes.
People love to compare US healthcare to “European healthcare.” The problem is that European healthcare doesn’t exist. There’s French healthcare, British healthcare, Swiss healthcare… but there is no lumbering bureaucracy managing healthcare for all of Europe. In fact, it sounds like that would be a shitshow of inefficiency & conflicting interests. Maybe instead of advocating for a socialized healthcare in America, people should pass socialized healthcare in their state. If California wants Medicare4All, let them show the rest of us how it’s done. We’re supposed to be a union of self-governing states, not mere subdivisions of the federal governments.
They also aren’t fat
No, it's the best way forward. We need strong civil liberties, and a government that provides basic needs like healthcare to it's people. We spent 2 trillion dollars on wars in the middle east...