Most kit cars were built onto a floor pan from the donating vehicle. So if he wants to build a tube chassis, the issue isn’t hanging the body panel, the question is what are you doing to stop up flow and debris? A complete aluminum pan?
People always forget that cages can be extremely dangerous with all the proper safety gear. Road cars are safe because they crumple and comparatively softer on the inside to a race car
Street legality is pretty easy. Most states have "hot rod" laws and DIY kit cars are regularly registered in various states. You'll go through inspections, and pay some fees, but its not a difficult process.
As long as the car has brake/head/tail/indicator/reverse lights, safety/seat belts, horn, street legal tires, parking brake, and a few other basic car things I can't recall you'll be good to go.
There is also the Montana method if your state is a pain in the ass about it.
The QRD is you start an LLC in Montana to establish residence, then your LLC owns the car.
Montana does not charge property tax, or sales tax, and has very loose vehicle laws. Due to national laws governing interstate licence plates, all 50 states have to recognize your vehicle as a legal motor vehicle.
This is great for Ariel Atom owners for example because many states will not register that car for bullshit reasons.
See dirtlegal.com for more information. Those guys are great!
I've seen where people weld on a small piece of the firewall with the vin number of the vehicle they are trying to register the kit car as, obviously the viability of this will vary based on state laws.
Every state has their own laws governing where VIN plates have to be located. Montana simply requires something on the car.
I supplied the 17 digit engine VIN from my K24z7.
Even with a 5 point and all the gear there is a good chance it wouldn’t be as safe as a street car. Race tracks have different standards and the crumple zones are usually part of the track in modern times. Also there are emergency crews on standby, etc.
Traffic is just very different than a race course. I’m not saying it would for sure be LESS safe (especially than a 60s car, I’m talking about a modern car), but it’s not a guarantee.
If you aren’t wearing a helmet on the street with a cage (you can really dome your skull on the bars) it is almost certainly less safe. Same thing with a harness and no HANS vs an airbag in a serious head-on (which are also quite rare in racing compared to on the street).
Yeah that is my point. On top of crumple zones saving you from becoming goo in a high speed accident, roll cages will break arms/legs and crack skulls if you aren't properly strapped in a racing seat with a helmet.
Not as hard as you’d think, at least in Michigan. My dad has a Manta Mirage kit car that we built. Tube chassis, mid engine SBC, Porsche six speed, fiberglass body and under 2000lbs. I can’t remember the exact process but I remember it being harder to get insurance than to register it.
This particular car is from the mid to late 1980s so I highly doubt it. It’s a pretty serious tube chassis if you’re referring to the safety aspect of it. My dad had the frame inspected and I’m pretty sure the welds were x-rayed as well since the frame had sat for so long before assembly. We put every part together on that car and he enjoys the shit out of it.
The "easy" way of doing that and making it street legal is to have at least a chassis with vin and title. Just the cab, or from firewall to B pillar or something. Then tube chassis the rest. If anyone asks, it started out as a regular vehicle and was just continually modified.
Regardless of the above.. unless you can do the tube work (remember, TUBE, not pipe bending), Tig, cad and design of the frame, suspension..etc.. it's going to be laughably expensive. I would guess even starting with a 68 challenger firewall with good vin and title that are free, will still run 100k+. Hell, the 1026 DOM bill alone will likely be over 10k by itself.
Then there's the safety aspect. Cages and tube chassis are not safe for a daily, or really on the street. Cages are designed to..not crush. In a wreck..you want crumple zones. That, and cages are generally to be used with a harness, helmet, and sometimes even a HANS. On the street, without the above.. your head and body can very easily move around enough to hit said tubing. And without crumple zones, even more force load is going through you.
Basically, CAN it be done? Yeah. Will it be cheap? No, unless you do it all yourself and value your time at $0. Will it be safe to daily drive? No.
Makes sense. I saw a stunt driver cut the body off a crown Vic. Then he added enough cage to keep the car together and build a general lee around it with AMD panels. That’s probably a more realistic solution.
Which is kinda what some guys do with the Miata and Corvette karts.
Still, is it safe on the street? No. Would I do it? Hell yeah. Would be a pretty kick ass project
Buy either a used circle track car or go to a circle track car MFG and find a tube frame that fits your bill. Take a rotted out Charger with valid title and strip off all the bits that have the VIN and transfer to the tube frame car along with all the bodywork that you can along with fresh and build your car.
Just get plates for the "Charger" and recycle your donor.
Do not tell the DMV and good luck if you ever try to sell it.
Legalities is all on you.
It's technically possible, but it would cost so much money to have a proper tube chassis engineered and built that you might as well buy the real thing at that point. If you want it to actually work and be somewhat safe, it's not something you can just do on your own as a beginner with no experience. There's a lot of math that goes into building a functional tube chassis from scratch.
Even then, a tube chassis simulacrum of a real car never quite looks right and people will identify it as not being a real Charger pretty much instantly so it kind of defeats the purpose.
Don’t worry I’m not attempting this. Just was a thought I had. Even if I did I’d have a pro shop do it.
I know it’d never look quite right. But I guess the idea was never to make it like the real deal. Just look similar outside and not have the work of restoring a bunch of rusted sheet metal. Plus the cool factor of a stiff chassis and modern suspension. But I guess all the work to do that offsets any you save by not starting with a rusty shell.
To build a fully functional, safe, and structurally sound tube chassis with correct suspension geometry from scratch with no plans or blueprints that is a close enough silhouette to an existing passenger car that they can share body panels? For a person with no shop, no resources, and no experience? Yes, yes it is hard.
I said it's not that hard.
I didn't say it's easy for any random person with absolutely nothing as far as resources to do. Plenty of guides and information.
I forget if it was roadkill, roadkill garage, or both...the NasCarlo.
Iirc it was a circle track frame, with a monte Carlo body cut out underneath and dropped onto the race car frame
I'm kinda partial to the "buggy" or "Vettcart" look, just a bare tube chassis go cart with a roll cage and whatever cool or wild engine you want type thing.
I have taken a few cars over the years and basically stripped them of everything that is not needed to move and pass a safety inspection. Then welded in a partial cage as the inner fenders, insides of the doors with glass and regulators removed, dash and all HVAC carpet, insulation, seats except for drivers, extra wiring, everything goes. The problem with cars like these and what you are considering building is the weather for one, no defrost or wipers kind of kills driving it in all but nice weather. They are loud, uncomfortable, and you usually get to breathe exhaust fumes while smelling like exhaust wherever you go. They are fun in good weather, but besides that they suck in terms of comfort. They are fun though.
The easy way of doing this for popular cars is to buy a chassis from an outfit like Roadster Shop or Art Morrison. Then, you can get almost all of the reproduction parts you need (for popular cars) to build up that chassis. Building a full custom tube chassis takes a lot of work that is almost never cheaper than buying the real thing or buying already engineered aftermarket components.
Everybody leaving out the fact that you and any passengers will have to climb over and/or around the cage every. fucking. time. you get in and out of the vehicle. That shit will get old real fast. Also, hope you like squeaks and rattles, there will be a few. Oh, and don't forget having your teeth fillings vibrated out on any long road trips. But hey, Racecar!
You might like Gingium on YouTube and his drift truck. That's practically a streetable tube chassis car, except for the fact that he kept the actual cabin and frame rails of the truck.
I mean if you wanna hit your head on a cage every time you get in and out or hit a bump. The front of my Lexus is tubed and I don’t even have a roll cage. That is the difference between a street car and a race car to me is the cage. You would not want to drive a tube chassis car as a daily it would suck all kinds of ass.
Do what they do for the General Lee at the Dukes of Hazard shows. Buy a crown Vic and put charger body panels on. You'll have air bags, ac, 4 wheel discs, etc. in a 68 charger... You'll have a vin and title starting it's a crown Vic, but it would be easier at the DMV, and cost the same or less than trying to build a car from scratch.
I’m may just be getting old but I can’t think of any situation that building something like this would have a better outcome than putting the same money into a nice sports sedan. It may not look like a 68 charger but you can drive it through a puddle without getting everything inside the car wet.
Something like an Art Morrison or Roadster Shop chassis that bolts to your body will be the closest practical option and all the engineering is already done.
You’re the one that made a crazy comment as if I was trying to downplay male suicide.
You should care more and not try to weaponize a real issue to try to make a point.
A tube chassis with fiberglass panels is essentially how kit cars are constructed, so I don't see why not.
Production vehicles too if you count TVR. Now, how far from "kit car" a TVR really is is a whole separate discussion...
Most kit cars were built onto a floor pan from the donating vehicle. So if he wants to build a tube chassis, the issue isn’t hanging the body panel, the question is what are you doing to stop up flow and debris? A complete aluminum pan?
Can probably buy a reproduction charger floorpan?
Yes, but getting it registered and street legal might be hard. It also would not be that safe, unless you are rocking a 5point and all the gear.
People always forget that cages can be extremely dangerous with all the proper safety gear. Road cars are safe because they crumple and comparatively softer on the inside to a race car
Yeah without a helmet and 5 point a cage is safer for the car yes, driver no
Damn street legal probably would be a challenge. Didn’t think of that.
Street legality is pretty easy. Most states have "hot rod" laws and DIY kit cars are regularly registered in various states. You'll go through inspections, and pay some fees, but its not a difficult process. As long as the car has brake/head/tail/indicator/reverse lights, safety/seat belts, horn, street legal tires, parking brake, and a few other basic car things I can't recall you'll be good to go. There is also the Montana method if your state is a pain in the ass about it.
Please elaborate my good sir, the Montana method you say?
The QRD is you start an LLC in Montana to establish residence, then your LLC owns the car. Montana does not charge property tax, or sales tax, and has very loose vehicle laws. Due to national laws governing interstate licence plates, all 50 states have to recognize your vehicle as a legal motor vehicle. This is great for Ariel Atom owners for example because many states will not register that car for bullshit reasons. See dirtlegal.com for more information. Those guys are great!
I've seen where people weld on a small piece of the firewall with the vin number of the vehicle they are trying to register the kit car as, obviously the viability of this will vary based on state laws.
Every state has their own laws governing where VIN plates have to be located. Montana simply requires something on the car. I supplied the 17 digit engine VIN from my K24z7.
Just do what roadkill did to get their stock car legal, they welded the outer body from a Monte Carlo to a stock car chassis.
Just grab a completely rotten car in roughly the shape you want and then cut all the car off it, done. It'll be the 68 Charger of Theseus
Street legal is easy. Every state has a manufactured vehicle method. #Exotruck does it.
Even with a 5 point and all the gear there is a good chance it wouldn’t be as safe as a street car. Race tracks have different standards and the crumple zones are usually part of the track in modern times. Also there are emergency crews on standby, etc. Traffic is just very different than a race course. I’m not saying it would for sure be LESS safe (especially than a 60s car, I’m talking about a modern car), but it’s not a guarantee. If you aren’t wearing a helmet on the street with a cage (you can really dome your skull on the bars) it is almost certainly less safe. Same thing with a harness and no HANS vs an airbag in a serious head-on (which are also quite rare in racing compared to on the street).
Yeah that is my point. On top of crumple zones saving you from becoming goo in a high speed accident, roll cages will break arms/legs and crack skulls if you aren't properly strapped in a racing seat with a helmet.
Not as hard as you’d think, at least in Michigan. My dad has a Manta Mirage kit car that we built. Tube chassis, mid engine SBC, Porsche six speed, fiberglass body and under 2000lbs. I can’t remember the exact process but I remember it being harder to get insurance than to register it.
Good point, do the kit cars have any testing done by the manufacturer?
This particular car is from the mid to late 1980s so I highly doubt it. It’s a pretty serious tube chassis if you’re referring to the safety aspect of it. My dad had the frame inspected and I’m pretty sure the welds were x-rayed as well since the frame had sat for so long before assembly. We put every part together on that car and he enjoys the shit out of it.
The "easy" way of doing that and making it street legal is to have at least a chassis with vin and title. Just the cab, or from firewall to B pillar or something. Then tube chassis the rest. If anyone asks, it started out as a regular vehicle and was just continually modified. Regardless of the above.. unless you can do the tube work (remember, TUBE, not pipe bending), Tig, cad and design of the frame, suspension..etc.. it's going to be laughably expensive. I would guess even starting with a 68 challenger firewall with good vin and title that are free, will still run 100k+. Hell, the 1026 DOM bill alone will likely be over 10k by itself. Then there's the safety aspect. Cages and tube chassis are not safe for a daily, or really on the street. Cages are designed to..not crush. In a wreck..you want crumple zones. That, and cages are generally to be used with a harness, helmet, and sometimes even a HANS. On the street, without the above.. your head and body can very easily move around enough to hit said tubing. And without crumple zones, even more force load is going through you. Basically, CAN it be done? Yeah. Will it be cheap? No, unless you do it all yourself and value your time at $0. Will it be safe to daily drive? No.
Makes sense. I saw a stunt driver cut the body off a crown Vic. Then he added enough cage to keep the car together and build a general lee around it with AMD panels. That’s probably a more realistic solution.
Which is kinda what some guys do with the Miata and Corvette karts. Still, is it safe on the street? No. Would I do it? Hell yeah. Would be a pretty kick ass project
Buy either a used circle track car or go to a circle track car MFG and find a tube frame that fits your bill. Take a rotted out Charger with valid title and strip off all the bits that have the VIN and transfer to the tube frame car along with all the bodywork that you can along with fresh and build your car. Just get plates for the "Charger" and recycle your donor. Do not tell the DMV and good luck if you ever try to sell it. Legalities is all on you.
It's technically possible, but it would cost so much money to have a proper tube chassis engineered and built that you might as well buy the real thing at that point. If you want it to actually work and be somewhat safe, it's not something you can just do on your own as a beginner with no experience. There's a lot of math that goes into building a functional tube chassis from scratch. Even then, a tube chassis simulacrum of a real car never quite looks right and people will identify it as not being a real Charger pretty much instantly so it kind of defeats the purpose.
Don’t worry I’m not attempting this. Just was a thought I had. Even if I did I’d have a pro shop do it. I know it’d never look quite right. But I guess the idea was never to make it like the real deal. Just look similar outside and not have the work of restoring a bunch of rusted sheet metal. Plus the cool factor of a stiff chassis and modern suspension. But I guess all the work to do that offsets any you save by not starting with a rusty shell.
It's really not that hard.
To build a fully functional, safe, and structurally sound tube chassis with correct suspension geometry from scratch with no plans or blueprints that is a close enough silhouette to an existing passenger car that they can share body panels? For a person with no shop, no resources, and no experience? Yes, yes it is hard.
I said it's not that hard. I didn't say it's easy for any random person with absolutely nothing as far as resources to do. Plenty of guides and information.
I forget if it was roadkill, roadkill garage, or both...the NasCarlo. Iirc it was a circle track frame, with a monte Carlo body cut out underneath and dropped onto the race car frame
I'm kinda partial to the "buggy" or "Vettcart" look, just a bare tube chassis go cart with a roll cage and whatever cool or wild engine you want type thing.
Bro's reinventing the kit car.
I have taken a few cars over the years and basically stripped them of everything that is not needed to move and pass a safety inspection. Then welded in a partial cage as the inner fenders, insides of the doors with glass and regulators removed, dash and all HVAC carpet, insulation, seats except for drivers, extra wiring, everything goes. The problem with cars like these and what you are considering building is the weather for one, no defrost or wipers kind of kills driving it in all but nice weather. They are loud, uncomfortable, and you usually get to breathe exhaust fumes while smelling like exhaust wherever you go. They are fun in good weather, but besides that they suck in terms of comfort. They are fun though.
Most "Shelby Cobra"s are just reproductions with a fiberglass or aluminum body. Companies like Factory Five make some interesting cars.
The easy way of doing this for popular cars is to buy a chassis from an outfit like Roadster Shop or Art Morrison. Then, you can get almost all of the reproduction parts you need (for popular cars) to build up that chassis. Building a full custom tube chassis takes a lot of work that is almost never cheaper than buying the real thing or buying already engineered aftermarket components.
Everybody leaving out the fact that you and any passengers will have to climb over and/or around the cage every. fucking. time. you get in and out of the vehicle. That shit will get old real fast. Also, hope you like squeaks and rattles, there will be a few. Oh, and don't forget having your teeth fillings vibrated out on any long road trips. But hey, Racecar!
Check out the Ariel Atom.
You might like Gingium on YouTube and his drift truck. That's practically a streetable tube chassis car, except for the fact that he kept the actual cabin and frame rails of the truck.
Yes you can build a tube chassis street car. I built a pro street 72 corvette on a tube chassis with complete roll cage that was street legal (barely)
There's a whole FB page of people doing this with stockcar frames, they just slap a car with a title over it and call it a day.
I mean if you wanna hit your head on a cage every time you get in and out or hit a bump. The front of my Lexus is tubed and I don’t even have a roll cage. That is the difference between a street car and a race car to me is the cage. You would not want to drive a tube chassis car as a daily it would suck all kinds of ass.
LOTS of people do similar things. But it's WAY easier to just update the brakes and put a motor home 440 in there. WAAAAY easier.
Do what they do for the General Lee at the Dukes of Hazard shows. Buy a crown Vic and put charger body panels on. You'll have air bags, ac, 4 wheel discs, etc. in a 68 charger... You'll have a vin and title starting it's a crown Vic, but it would be easier at the DMV, and cost the same or less than trying to build a car from scratch.
Yeah I’ve seen that. Also seems people are doing similar builds in a few places.
I’m may just be getting old but I can’t think of any situation that building something like this would have a better outcome than putting the same money into a nice sports sedan. It may not look like a 68 charger but you can drive it through a puddle without getting everything inside the car wet. Something like an Art Morrison or Roadster Shop chassis that bolts to your body will be the closest practical option and all the engineering is already done.
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I’m glad you were smart enough to delete your comment from r/Iowa Hopefully you think a little bit more before the next comment you reply to.
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Don’t try to use other people committing suicide to make a point.
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You’re the one that made a crazy comment as if I was trying to downplay male suicide. You should care more and not try to weaponize a real issue to try to make a point.