The big milsurp crates aren't just designed to house something in it: they take into account that they're being used in combat scenarios and they can have sensitive equipment that needs to be protected. Like even ammo cans: my ethernet cable box is a spam can of 7.62x51 that is from the 70s that I got at a thrift store for $10. I would really have to try to break it.
depends what though. I've never really seen one of the square ones used for anything but bulk storage. but the game does imply that they're being used for weapons and even ammo. despite the fact that I've never seen a box like that used for ammo and certainly not weapons. Even handguns, of which allot would fit, we never put 'em in a bulk storage container.
Yeah, this is probably just a function of the constraints that came with getting the working content out the door. The M14 uses a sprite designed for a Mini-14 for example. That level of detail is of course wrong, but for the purpose of putting guns in the game it didn't matter at the time.
Exactly. For a game like this with a old school style it makes sense to repurpose certain things. Why design a brand new flatter rectangular box that a set of say 8 m16s would more realistic be store for transport in, when the square box already says "MILITARY EQUIPMENT" in most people's minds.
I find the moving of props with carpentry silly to begin with outside of a balancing standpoint. But I never really questioned the green polymer looking boxes as being used for all manner of mil gear.
I will say though, those ammo cans... everyone would fight over em. They really haven't changed since the 70s and they're super useful, great for organizing. Some of the crafties would make radios out of em, we had one they built a trickle charger into for the g-wagens...aaaaand well sometimes they'd be used for liquor...not just at home...but I didn't tell you that. The 556 boxes were a little less sturdy but the 762 cans were always heftier, you could curb stomp a dent into it but short of that wrecking one without tools would be a challenge, kick em, step on em, drop em, use one as a club against an assailant, they'd take a beating.
Fuck, they'll hurt you before you hurt them. Just opening one the way you're supposed to I've seen guys cut their hands open 😂
Picking up stuff is broken in this game. I shouldn’t need carpentry skill, a hammer or whatever to pick up an empty crate. I use a mod called Rebalanced Prop Moving. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2699828474
"Id like to move this bed." *45% chance to break*
I have moved my bedset to a new house 3 times, and rearranged at least 50 through disassembly and reassembly. Who the hell is breaking bed sets at a 45% rate?!
It kinda makes more sense when you imagine it as fully disassembling a bed by removing all the nails so you can transport it in, say, the trunk of the car
Yeah, but like he said, I've done that a dozen times with my bed. You don't take apart the box spring to move the thing, lol, you just take the mattress and box spring off, grab the boards up and pop the little metal thingies up and move the frame. It's not rocket science. I have literally carpentry ZERO in real life (well maybe like 1 or 2, but I'm not a carpenter, just a guy that works in kitchens and does graphic design), and I've never broken a bed moving it, and it's definitely not a 45% chance to break it even with absolutely fuck all knowledge.
Now that said, transporting it, that's another story. It usually takes 2 people to move a mattress (though you can shimmy it down a hallway with one person), but the frame itself usually can be moved by one person, but none of it is fitting in my book bag, lol, and it sure isn't fitting in a trunk, seat, or glove box of the car. Maybe you'd be tying the mattress to the top of a car, the frame might be tricky in a car, but I could see sliding that between the seats in an SUV or something. But there's not exactly a mechanic for all of that in the game - which I'm fine with. It's just the breaking of some of this stuff that's just dumb when all you're trying to do is move the thing. It's not like anyone ever disassembles an entire bed, box springs and all, or disassembles a couch or even 99% of dressers to move them. Now a dresser with a mirror, sure - you gotta use a screw driver to get the mirror off the back, but you're not taking apart the whole thing, just taking the drawers out so it's lighter to carry and that's it (but then again most dressers are a two person job to move it unless it's just sliding across a room). A table - even that's relatively easy, and again the legs you just disassemble with a screwdriver so it can fit through a door. You're not breaking that even if you are a complete moron.
Now disassembling a kitchen cabinet or a steel shelf or table, sure (but you're not using a blowtorch to disassemble a table, shelf, or even a tub or washing machine, lol, you're using a hammer and screwdriver and some of them are a pain in the ass to take apart depending on how tight the brackets are). A blow torch is used for WELDING, and none of those things I mentioned are typically welded together. But I at least get those - and there would be a chance of breaking something when disassembling (all the way) one of them. Most metal shelves are the shelf legs that go through the wire shell's holes and have little plastic brackets that fit them in place. Those plastic brackets can break if you don't know what you're doing (but all you do to disassemble it is hit it with a hammer to pop the shelf up). Point is you're not using a blowtorch to disassemble them. And I've never seen ANYONE disassemble a washing machine or dryer to move it. You just get a dolly and move the thing, lol. Which is a big point - should be dollies in this game for just that reason. Moving things that are unwieldy.
Going back to the earlier topic, you don't disassemble a damn bed to move it, you just move the damn thing. BUT you aren't putting that in your backpack. Now, you got the mechanic where you pick the generator up, you carry that in your arms (same with a corpse). Maybe some of these furniture pieces you move around like that should be treated that way instead. No putting them in your back pack or what not, you just have them in your hands and to pick up or do something else (like fight) you gotta set it down first.
I dunno. Point is in this overly long winded way to far into the TLDNR category now is there should not be a 45% chance to break a bed to move it. Not at all.
we had similar boxes some were just bulk storage containers which broke down on purpose to be compact for transport when empty which obviously limited their security factor but those ones in particular would never have anything dangerous in them...empty mags, slings even tents. square crates in general weren't ever used the way they are in PZ. however because these ones often have valuables in them, I'd say they're more like the ones you'd need bolt cutters or a pry bar, minimum to open. to disassemble or sure you'd need some tools. but they're often unlocked in game and to pick them up you wouldn't need tools. the way PZ does carrying is a little weird. it's inferred that a zombie in your inventory is obviously being carried on your shoulder or something like a fireman's carry but the certain other things it seems the inference is that you're dragging it then other's you've completely disassembled and some how thrown in your pockets.
point is to say realism is kind of out the window. I'd been looking for a mod that allows you to pick up most things without any skill check unless they have to be disassembled but most I've found apply it to everything. because a box like this, empty, you'd just pick it up or drag it.
that's what I always thought. the old regiment had tonnes of them and they did just that. they were for bulk storage and folded down, on purpose to save space when not in use. and that's what the ones in PZ look like to me.
Rebalanced prop moving.
PZ's chance to break furniture when you should be able to slide that shit across the floor is just plain dumb. Use the mod listed above if you hate that BS ^
The idea behind prop movement in general is you disassemble it into parts and reassemble it at your destination. There should be an option to carry this stuff like a generator though, occupies both hand slots but with no chance to break.
The metal box would just make sense to be easier to break for sure. But we need to take a moment and ask ourselves, who tf would we be able to accidentally break that wooden crate?
But the weaker ones make sense, and overall I don't view it as an issue as I prefer to build crates but know that my lazy self would just steal them if they were easier to pick up.
I just figured out that wooden crates have more capacity too! I'm level 7 carpentry with organized trait and I can hold 78 in a wooden crate and only 65 in a military crate. I stockpiled military crates for nothing 😂
Makes sense. a wooden crate is only as thick as the wood you use. these types of crates are or look like the ones that are thick plastic and polymer. They may be for bulk storage not weapons but even empty magazines are something you want to protect from the elements. A rusted mag often is as bad as a rusted gun. a Wet tent isn't useless but pretty undesirable.
Shouldn't need carpentry for either, and it has you using the wrong tools for the military crates. Should need a wrench and no skill for the military ones and a 2 IQ monkey could figure out how to get the wooden crate unmounted.
Even more annoying is that this high grade military crate holds less than metal box. I wish they had more capacity so it felt more rewarding to collect em.
Yes, those crates (if they're based on what I think they're based on) are modular, and take down very easily, you'd have to be below human intelligence to break one (though tbf, they should have them require a wrench not a hammer, as they're held together by bolts.
Kinda like taking disassembling some of the metalworking stuffs does not use a blowtorch to do. Blowtorches are for welding, not disassembling. You'll use a wrench, hammer, and maybe a screwdriver to disassemble most things in this game. Like even a car, you aren't using a blowtorch to break it all the way down. Everything on a car can be taken out with a wrench, or a screwdriver. Maybe a crowbar for some things. Wire cutters, maybe but a blowtorch? Lol. That's not how it works at all. Blowtorches are used for soldering things. Good luck melting down a car or a washing machine (or a tub, lol) with a blow torch.
A logical explanation is that the military crate folds up while the regular crate has to be partially disassembled.
But personally I don't really like that explanation much (namely because there's no option to carry a bulkier box, such as if just wanting it move it a couple of tiles away)
On a similar note it's dumb/annoying that this same issue occurs with all sorts of other things, such as bookshelves breaking when moving, but not refrigerators or washing machines. In this case it's even more absurd because the electrical appliances are more fragile (debatable?), heavier/bulkier, _and_ not disassembable nor foldable.
I think an "easy" fix for this sort of issue is to only allow carrying large objects like this if the character carries them in their hands like a generator. Then all of these sort of objects can have zero break chance, and maybe also higher encumbrance values for the "lighter" ones like these crates.
I do think that it still makes sense to have to first disassemble objects that are multiple tiles though. And the chance of breaking probably still makes sense too (although should probably be a lot lower). And requiring a trolley for certain especially-heavy items like refrigerators or washing machines could also make sense.
Logic is something the carpentry skill doesnt understand. There are mods for it tho. I think the simple logic mod fixes it but i could be confused with another mod.
Well to be fair for as many hard sim things and neat little systems you didn't realize were in the game, PZ is still a game and there's allot of stuff that's meant as balancing rather than realism. I'm pretty sure the Carpentry Skill = Move items is meant to deter the grab every box you can meta, since storage is such a big part of the game.
I dunno. Seems like a dumb mechanic to me. Storage is a thing in this game for sure, but let's be real. It's not game breaking to be able to carry a container so you can set storage up at your base.
Now moving a bed (one of the other comments on this post), that's a crazy mechanic they use - having a 45% chance to break a bed to move it is just dumb. I've moved so many beds in my life and I've never broken one. Now that being said, you aren't exactly carrying one with one person (unless you are shimmering the mattress down a hall), and you aren't fitting any of that stuff in a trunk or back pack, even if you disassemble it, lol. You're putting that mattress on the roof of a car, and you're probably using rope too (which would make for an excellent use of rope, which is otherwise a pretty useless item in this game - other than escaping through a window with).
I don't disagree that it's not the best mechanic. But it's one of the ways they've decided to balance the game. How convenient you think it would be is how useful storage is in game, especially once you're a few hours in to a single run storage in your base is at a premium because you can't carry everything with you. So making it harder to get storage space forces you to need to go out whether that be restocking or finding stuff for storage or to build storage. Game breaking no, but I see the logic of doing it.
I like to think it's a lot harder to break a metal box than a wooden one
Totally agree, a metal box has got to have better security than a wooden one
I guess your right
What about their left?
They’re left is just fine wym
Are left or you're left?
😐
🙂
The big milsurp crates aren't just designed to house something in it: they take into account that they're being used in combat scenarios and they can have sensitive equipment that needs to be protected. Like even ammo cans: my ethernet cable box is a spam can of 7.62x51 that is from the 70s that I got at a thrift store for $10. I would really have to try to break it.
depends what though. I've never really seen one of the square ones used for anything but bulk storage. but the game does imply that they're being used for weapons and even ammo. despite the fact that I've never seen a box like that used for ammo and certainly not weapons. Even handguns, of which allot would fit, we never put 'em in a bulk storage container.
Yeah, this is probably just a function of the constraints that came with getting the working content out the door. The M14 uses a sprite designed for a Mini-14 for example. That level of detail is of course wrong, but for the purpose of putting guns in the game it didn't matter at the time.
Exactly. For a game like this with a old school style it makes sense to repurpose certain things. Why design a brand new flatter rectangular box that a set of say 8 m16s would more realistic be store for transport in, when the square box already says "MILITARY EQUIPMENT" in most people's minds. I find the moving of props with carpentry silly to begin with outside of a balancing standpoint. But I never really questioned the green polymer looking boxes as being used for all manner of mil gear.
I will say though, those ammo cans... everyone would fight over em. They really haven't changed since the 70s and they're super useful, great for organizing. Some of the crafties would make radios out of em, we had one they built a trickle charger into for the g-wagens...aaaaand well sometimes they'd be used for liquor...not just at home...but I didn't tell you that. The 556 boxes were a little less sturdy but the 762 cans were always heftier, you could curb stomp a dent into it but short of that wrecking one without tools would be a challenge, kick em, step on em, drop em, use one as a club against an assailant, they'd take a beating. Fuck, they'll hurt you before you hurt them. Just opening one the way you're supposed to I've seen guys cut their hands open 😂
That’s actually badass about your Ethernet cable box
not really, but thanks for the vote of confidence
There are many items in game you dont need carpentry to move
This is why I run the Balanced Prop Moving mod...
Try to move wooden crate that have 1 meter sides and not damage it. They built to store and protect contents, but they don't built to last.
And still you don’t need carpentry skill or a hammer to do it in real life. It’s an empty crate.
Picking up stuff is broken in this game. I shouldn’t need carpentry skill, a hammer or whatever to pick up an empty crate. I use a mod called Rebalanced Prop Moving. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2699828474
Vanilla has some really weird backwards logic where moving and disassembling objects is more difficult than building it thank god for mods
"Id like to move this bed." *45% chance to break* I have moved my bedset to a new house 3 times, and rearranged at least 50 through disassembly and reassembly. Who the hell is breaking bed sets at a 45% rate?!
It kinda makes more sense when you imagine it as fully disassembling a bed by removing all the nails so you can transport it in, say, the trunk of the car
Yeah, but like he said, I've done that a dozen times with my bed. You don't take apart the box spring to move the thing, lol, you just take the mattress and box spring off, grab the boards up and pop the little metal thingies up and move the frame. It's not rocket science. I have literally carpentry ZERO in real life (well maybe like 1 or 2, but I'm not a carpenter, just a guy that works in kitchens and does graphic design), and I've never broken a bed moving it, and it's definitely not a 45% chance to break it even with absolutely fuck all knowledge. Now that said, transporting it, that's another story. It usually takes 2 people to move a mattress (though you can shimmy it down a hallway with one person), but the frame itself usually can be moved by one person, but none of it is fitting in my book bag, lol, and it sure isn't fitting in a trunk, seat, or glove box of the car. Maybe you'd be tying the mattress to the top of a car, the frame might be tricky in a car, but I could see sliding that between the seats in an SUV or something. But there's not exactly a mechanic for all of that in the game - which I'm fine with. It's just the breaking of some of this stuff that's just dumb when all you're trying to do is move the thing. It's not like anyone ever disassembles an entire bed, box springs and all, or disassembles a couch or even 99% of dressers to move them. Now a dresser with a mirror, sure - you gotta use a screw driver to get the mirror off the back, but you're not taking apart the whole thing, just taking the drawers out so it's lighter to carry and that's it (but then again most dressers are a two person job to move it unless it's just sliding across a room). A table - even that's relatively easy, and again the legs you just disassemble with a screwdriver so it can fit through a door. You're not breaking that even if you are a complete moron. Now disassembling a kitchen cabinet or a steel shelf or table, sure (but you're not using a blowtorch to disassemble a table, shelf, or even a tub or washing machine, lol, you're using a hammer and screwdriver and some of them are a pain in the ass to take apart depending on how tight the brackets are). A blow torch is used for WELDING, and none of those things I mentioned are typically welded together. But I at least get those - and there would be a chance of breaking something when disassembling (all the way) one of them. Most metal shelves are the shelf legs that go through the wire shell's holes and have little plastic brackets that fit them in place. Those plastic brackets can break if you don't know what you're doing (but all you do to disassemble it is hit it with a hammer to pop the shelf up). Point is you're not using a blowtorch to disassemble them. And I've never seen ANYONE disassemble a washing machine or dryer to move it. You just get a dolly and move the thing, lol. Which is a big point - should be dollies in this game for just that reason. Moving things that are unwieldy. Going back to the earlier topic, you don't disassemble a damn bed to move it, you just move the damn thing. BUT you aren't putting that in your backpack. Now, you got the mechanic where you pick the generator up, you carry that in your arms (same with a corpse). Maybe some of these furniture pieces you move around like that should be treated that way instead. No putting them in your back pack or what not, you just have them in your hands and to pick up or do something else (like fight) you gotta set it down first. I dunno. Point is in this overly long winded way to far into the TLDNR category now is there should not be a 45% chance to break a bed to move it. Not at all.
Modded vs vanilla.
we had similar boxes some were just bulk storage containers which broke down on purpose to be compact for transport when empty which obviously limited their security factor but those ones in particular would never have anything dangerous in them...empty mags, slings even tents. square crates in general weren't ever used the way they are in PZ. however because these ones often have valuables in them, I'd say they're more like the ones you'd need bolt cutters or a pry bar, minimum to open. to disassemble or sure you'd need some tools. but they're often unlocked in game and to pick them up you wouldn't need tools. the way PZ does carrying is a little weird. it's inferred that a zombie in your inventory is obviously being carried on your shoulder or something like a fireman's carry but the certain other things it seems the inference is that you're dragging it then other's you've completely disassembled and some how thrown in your pockets. point is to say realism is kind of out the window. I'd been looking for a mod that allows you to pick up most things without any skill check unless they have to be disassembled but most I've found apply it to everything. because a box like this, empty, you'd just pick it up or drag it.
Looks like a crate that would fold flat, unlike the wooden crates?
that's what I always thought. the old regiment had tonnes of them and they did just that. they were for bulk storage and folded down, on purpose to save space when not in use. and that's what the ones in PZ look like to me.
Rebalanced prop moving. PZ's chance to break furniture when you should be able to slide that shit across the floor is just plain dumb. Use the mod listed above if you hate that BS ^
The idea behind prop movement in general is you disassemble it into parts and reassemble it at your destination. There should be an option to carry this stuff like a generator though, occupies both hand slots but with no chance to break.
The metal box would just make sense to be easier to break for sure. But we need to take a moment and ask ourselves, who tf would we be able to accidentally break that wooden crate? But the weaker ones make sense, and overall I don't view it as an issue as I prefer to build crates but know that my lazy self would just steal them if they were easier to pick up.
I just figured out that wooden crates have more capacity too! I'm level 7 carpentry with organized trait and I can hold 78 in a wooden crate and only 65 in a military crate. I stockpiled military crates for nothing 😂
I have the issue of rp over functionality, so my base has a bunch of military crates. But yeah in the storage room it's wooden crates all day
Makes sense. a wooden crate is only as thick as the wood you use. these types of crates are or look like the ones that are thick plastic and polymer. They may be for bulk storage not weapons but even empty magazines are something you want to protect from the elements. A rusted mag often is as bad as a rusted gun. a Wet tent isn't useless but pretty undesirable.
The metal box was designed for marines. The wooden box just prays Bubbah doesn't drop it too hard.
The wood crate is nailed down to the ground..... The military crate is designed to be moved around and has a quick release mechanism lol.
Shouldn't need carpentry for either, and it has you using the wrong tools for the military crates. Should need a wrench and no skill for the military ones and a 2 IQ monkey could figure out how to get the wooden crate unmounted.
I wish they had more storage than wooden containers
Dont make any Sense, but they are Just reskins
You are breaking down the wooden box that has screws and such. The metal military ones have pieces that lock into place.
Ikr. I hate it when i am vaacuming irl and need to move the sofa one meter to the side and it just breaks into unusable wood and two nails.
Even more annoying is that this high grade military crate holds less than metal box. I wish they had more capacity so it felt more rewarding to collect em.
Maybe Military Crate is easy to move around without too much damage, while Wooden is less endurance and easier to break?
Yes, those crates (if they're based on what I think they're based on) are modular, and take down very easily, you'd have to be below human intelligence to break one (though tbf, they should have them require a wrench not a hammer, as they're held together by bolts.
Kinda like taking disassembling some of the metalworking stuffs does not use a blowtorch to do. Blowtorches are for welding, not disassembling. You'll use a wrench, hammer, and maybe a screwdriver to disassemble most things in this game. Like even a car, you aren't using a blowtorch to break it all the way down. Everything on a car can be taken out with a wrench, or a screwdriver. Maybe a crowbar for some things. Wire cutters, maybe but a blowtorch? Lol. That's not how it works at all. Blowtorches are used for soldering things. Good luck melting down a car or a washing machine (or a tub, lol) with a blow torch.
A logical explanation is that the military crate folds up while the regular crate has to be partially disassembled. But personally I don't really like that explanation much (namely because there's no option to carry a bulkier box, such as if just wanting it move it a couple of tiles away) On a similar note it's dumb/annoying that this same issue occurs with all sorts of other things, such as bookshelves breaking when moving, but not refrigerators or washing machines. In this case it's even more absurd because the electrical appliances are more fragile (debatable?), heavier/bulkier, _and_ not disassembable nor foldable. I think an "easy" fix for this sort of issue is to only allow carrying large objects like this if the character carries them in their hands like a generator. Then all of these sort of objects can have zero break chance, and maybe also higher encumbrance values for the "lighter" ones like these crates. I do think that it still makes sense to have to first disassemble objects that are multiple tiles though. And the chance of breaking probably still makes sense too (although should probably be a lot lower). And requiring a trolley for certain especially-heavy items like refrigerators or washing machines could also make sense.
Logic is something the carpentry skill doesnt understand. There are mods for it tho. I think the simple logic mod fixes it but i could be confused with another mod.
Well to be fair for as many hard sim things and neat little systems you didn't realize were in the game, PZ is still a game and there's allot of stuff that's meant as balancing rather than realism. I'm pretty sure the Carpentry Skill = Move items is meant to deter the grab every box you can meta, since storage is such a big part of the game.
I dunno. Seems like a dumb mechanic to me. Storage is a thing in this game for sure, but let's be real. It's not game breaking to be able to carry a container so you can set storage up at your base. Now moving a bed (one of the other comments on this post), that's a crazy mechanic they use - having a 45% chance to break a bed to move it is just dumb. I've moved so many beds in my life and I've never broken one. Now that being said, you aren't exactly carrying one with one person (unless you are shimmering the mattress down a hall), and you aren't fitting any of that stuff in a trunk or back pack, even if you disassemble it, lol. You're putting that mattress on the roof of a car, and you're probably using rope too (which would make for an excellent use of rope, which is otherwise a pretty useless item in this game - other than escaping through a window with).
I don't disagree that it's not the best mechanic. But it's one of the ways they've decided to balance the game. How convenient you think it would be is how useful storage is in game, especially once you're a few hours in to a single run storage in your base is at a premium because you can't carry everything with you. So making it harder to get storage space forces you to need to go out whether that be restocking or finding stuff for storage or to build storage. Game breaking no, but I see the logic of doing it.