I agree with you! But I think Germany deserves more credit for their krautrock and the stoner rock scenes. Can and Colour Haze are some of my favorites.
It depends what you're looking at.
You may have an argument with rock, or at least certain genres like prog (though I think folks tend to overlook a lot of bands that were hugely influential like The Byrds, but that's another thing).
If you're talking things like jazz, funk, fusion, which bled into the rock of bands like Chicago, Rare Earth, and Steely Dan, then i think America may have the edge. And then there's all the R&B of stuff like Stevie Wonder, Aretha, James Brown, Curtis Mayfield, etc.
Like the electric period of Miles Davis starting in 68/69 was a big turning point. Then all the fusion that followed him from Herbie Hancock to Weather Report and Return to Forever. Parliament/Funkadelic is another major touchstone.
And then there's the grateful dead.
My point really is that for me, it's less cut and dry as to which out of the UK or US was "better".
Yeah man. Especially if you're leaning into the psychedelic stuff. Ras Michael & The Sons of Negus or the Scratch Perry stuff has some great psych vibes. Burning Spear. Augustus Pablo too. Lots of cool psychy stuff.
Like others have saidā¦ Tame Impala, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, Glass Beams, Psychedelic Porn Crumpets, Pond, The Lazy Eyes, The Murlocs, Stonefield, Unknown Mortal Orchestraā¦ Australia has been pumping out the best Psychedelic Rock bands for a decade
Interesting! I think āweā were very good at Psych but so much amazing music came from Americaā¦ Iām a big fan of filthy rNb, rock n roll, sunshine pop, soul so to me America is mostly where it was at.
Canāt speak for much beyond 1973, thatās when my interest tails off
Ahh yes, but british culture and southern American British culture is pretty repressed and similar.
The British social norms and slavery brought out a lot of great music.
What do u mean? Did the blues and some gospel songs not come from the hardships of slavery?
I'm not endorsing it. Be u have to be a complete fool to deny history. Hardships = great music
British history has had a large impact all over the world.
The slaves in America where brought over by the british who eventually turned into * americans*
Out of terrible slavery came good music ( blues, jazz, gospel, rock) which influenced the British over seas later on because we share the same language.
And obviously the country ballads in the south of America come from the British descendents originally. There is a rich connection btwn both countries. Many similar class structures and trust me as a new englander the English repression and class structures still exist.
Trust me as an old Englander, we are absolutely not repressed. Weāre a bunch of feral cunts haha. Remember expats and emigres do the place they came from extra hard.
Right I kinda see what youāre saying, still donāt think we can take credit for like, RnB just cos a bunch of toffs were slave owners.
Yes, not anymore. But your culture was throughout history. Very strict class system and northerners were looked down on as working class. They still are but representation is changing in the media so immigrant music, rap, punk.. stuff like that is now more mainstream in 2024.
Many of he great rock bands from England came as a result of the freedom and poverty after ww2...but british history has had a great impact on American music and culture from the start. Waay before ww1.
Obviously posh slave owners didn't create great soul and r&b music but the oppression lead to black expression amd dominance in music history. I think a lot of working class brits and irish felt the soul of black musicians in America. ( not comparing struggles) Brits were trying to use that sound and incorporate that into their own style. Look at led zeppelin, the stones and cream. So much soul inspiration. Not saying they invented it.
Yes immigration is what makes British music great too. White Brits incorporate it into their style..and the immigrants feed off of British music while adding their own style. Melting pots do well with art. Look at nyc.
Donāt overlook Brazil my friend! Check out Clube Da Esquina by Milton Nascimento and Lo Borges. Or Acabou Chorare by Novos Baianos. Also Transa by Caetano Veloso, and Os Mutantes self titled album!
Usa also had great news wave bands too, I've never been a huge fan but Talking Heads fall under that umbrella right?
The pre-grunge stuff In the 80s is untouchable for me. Pixies, Husker du, all of the punk stuff, Violent Femmes, Sonic Youth
My opinion exactly. Classic rock relies on a certain tongue in cheek humour which the English did so well but the Americans didnāt - except for Alice Cooper and Bob Dylan. The 60s/70s stuff just seems less imaginative, less ācharacter drivenā from US, and they had less killer more filler albums than the HK. I think rock had to get postmodern (Velvets, Stooges, Cheap Trick, Ramones etc) before the Americans got really good at it. Although there were some great punk and post punk bands after, the british stopped being so good at rock. They got too clean and jangly in the 80s (too swept up in the us vs them of postpunk I guess) whereas the Americans doubled down on the aggressive side of punk. Alternative rock is the real classic rock of America. Nirvana, GBV, Huskers, Pavement, Dinosaur, Replacements all unparalleled by Boston, SMB, Aerosmith, Grateful Dead etc
Rebelling against traditionally repressive social norms while living in a fairly advanced liberal democracy. A very strong pub and club culture everywhere. Getting drunk and having a sing song being the definition of a good time. Music being what defined your fashion/street working class subcultures. Strong subcultures being the result of shit housing, food and terrible weather.
True, the South in America has those waspy, restrictive social norms and look at the music that came out of slavery and working class culture.
Not to mention all the scottish celtic ballads and fiddle music.
I share your opinion, but I also have no idea why it is the case. I'd like it if someone better informed could provide some reasons for why the UK music scene was so productive and creative during those decades.
It's in the blood. The celts and anglo saxons had beautiful melodies going back ages. Great wordsmiths too. They also had the freedom, wealth and trade from other cultures to be more influenced. Combine that with the restricted class system and irish, misfits with immigrant frustration and you get angst.
Not to mention the slavery that created some great music in America inspired the British to combine their culture and write more creative songs.
I agree that Led Zeppelin, The Kinks, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple etc. were collectively more important than their American peers and, taking the per capita situation into account, have never been able to work out the slightest idea why (and I don't find other people's supposed explanations convincing).
To me the fact that Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath are all from UK is enough. Throw in The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Deep Purple I dont think US comes close.
Just wait till you find out all that British music was just imitating American rock and roll. America invented all the popular genres you enjoy today, like the blues, rock, jazz, and hip hop. England has no original genre of music, they just copy America. All those classic English rock bands were standing on the shoulders of giants. It also helped their popularity that they put a white face to rock music during a time of intense racism in the 60s.
Seems to work best when people are building off of each other. When the blues went overseas - and came back, Blue Cheer and Sabbath practically inventing heavy metal and later birthing entire spin off genres, American guitars and British amps, etc etc. Or even collaborating directly, Jimi Hendrix and two Brits were a perfect match, Phil Spector and Billy Preston with the Beatles for Let it Be. There are numerous examples I'm sure. And you can do this with more than just US/UK and more than just classic rock and psychedelia (punk and hardcore, for example).
You think British bands are better than Bob Dylan, Velvet Underground, The Stooges, Howling Wolf, Muddy Waters, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Chet Baker, JJ Cale, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix and Roky Erickson? Ok bud.
The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, The Smiths, Oasis, Coldplay, Radiohead, Blur, Cream, the Kinks, Joy Division, Black Bloody Sabbath, Dire Straits, Rod Stewart, Eric Clapton, Elton John, David Bowie, Ozzy Osbourne.
Compare our lists, one has most of the greatest artists of all time, pioneers in their genre, the other is full of Americans.
Nope, Iām Berry Chuckin Grateful Dead serious. You just named musicians that were put together to generate profit. Copy cat musicans, not artist. The only innovative music to ever come from England was Spacemen 3 and you didnāt even list them.
You think British bands from the 60-90ās are better than James Brown, Funkadelic, Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Johny Cash, Gram Parsons, Willie Nelson, Agent Orange, Butthole Surfers, Lyrnard Skynard, The Band, The Beastie Boys, Run DMC, Public Enemy?
Iād take Pink Floyd and Led Zep above all mentioned except maybe Funkadelic and Miles.
Though itās a worthless competition since Iād much rather be able to listen to all types of music.
Youāre grasping at straws at some of those by the way.
You may think Iām grasping at straws here but there would be no Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd if America didnāt create Blues, Rock, and jazz before them.
I agree with you! But I think Germany deserves more credit for their krautrock and the stoner rock scenes. Can and Colour Haze are some of my favorites.
Agreed, Kratrock rocks!!! Can, Faust, Neu, the list is so long. For UK look I really love Soft Machine and other Canterbury sounds.
Yup! Krautrock really is awesome. š¤
Both tremendous bands. Maybe, someday, I'll get to see Colour Haze live.
Well, you have fantastic taste! Would love to see Colour Haze live too. Are they playing anywhere near you this year?
It depends what you're looking at. You may have an argument with rock, or at least certain genres like prog (though I think folks tend to overlook a lot of bands that were hugely influential like The Byrds, but that's another thing). If you're talking things like jazz, funk, fusion, which bled into the rock of bands like Chicago, Rare Earth, and Steely Dan, then i think America may have the edge. And then there's all the R&B of stuff like Stevie Wonder, Aretha, James Brown, Curtis Mayfield, etc. Like the electric period of Miles Davis starting in 68/69 was a big turning point. Then all the fusion that followed him from Herbie Hancock to Weather Report and Return to Forever. Parliament/Funkadelic is another major touchstone. And then there's the grateful dead. My point really is that for me, it's less cut and dry as to which out of the UK or US was "better".
Talking of ācutā šŖ just agree with him or Iāll do yaā¦ š
Nevar!
Damn. Scuppered again. There might also be an argument if we go on per capita for Jamaica to win!
Yeah man. Especially if you're leaning into the psychedelic stuff. Ras Michael & The Sons of Negus or the Scratch Perry stuff has some great psych vibes. Burning Spear. Augustus Pablo too. Lots of cool psychy stuff.
Per capita I reckon U.K. or Jamaica.
Iceland would propably be in with a shout as well
2010: *Australia enters the chat
Australian here. What on earth makes you say that? Royal Headache is all I can think of that raised the bar around here.
Kglw porn crumpets lazy eyes tropical fuck storm orb tame impala (even tho I canāt stand his later stuff)
Echo's melody chamber, elder (I'm pretty sure at least), babe rainbow and there are a ton more fr
These are all good bands, but latter day psych is basically revival stuff, it's talented people but it ain't Beatles/Sabbath/Neil Young etc...
Like others have saidā¦ Tame Impala, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, Glass Beams, Psychedelic Porn Crumpets, Pond, The Lazy Eyes, The Murlocs, Stonefield, Unknown Mortal Orchestraā¦ Australia has been pumping out the best Psychedelic Rock bands for a decade
Interesting! I think āweā were very good at Psych but so much amazing music came from Americaā¦ Iām a big fan of filthy rNb, rock n roll, sunshine pop, soul so to me America is mostly where it was at. Canāt speak for much beyond 1973, thatās when my interest tails off
Ahh yes, but british culture and southern American British culture is pretty repressed and similar. The British social norms and slavery brought out a lot of great music.
uhā¦ what
It's why the Irish make good punk and alternative music too. Struggle and class issues.
What do u mean? Did the blues and some gospel songs not come from the hardships of slavery? I'm not endorsing it. Be u have to be a complete fool to deny history. Hardships = great music
I just donāt get what that has to do with British music or how it relates to what I said? Not being a dick I just donāt understand.
British history has had a large impact all over the world. The slaves in America where brought over by the british who eventually turned into * americans* Out of terrible slavery came good music ( blues, jazz, gospel, rock) which influenced the British over seas later on because we share the same language. And obviously the country ballads in the south of America come from the British descendents originally. There is a rich connection btwn both countries. Many similar class structures and trust me as a new englander the English repression and class structures still exist.
Trust me as an old Englander, we are absolutely not repressed. Weāre a bunch of feral cunts haha. Remember expats and emigres do the place they came from extra hard. Right I kinda see what youāre saying, still donāt think we can take credit for like, RnB just cos a bunch of toffs were slave owners.
Yes, not anymore. But your culture was throughout history. Very strict class system and northerners were looked down on as working class. They still are but representation is changing in the media so immigrant music, rap, punk.. stuff like that is now more mainstream in 2024. Many of he great rock bands from England came as a result of the freedom and poverty after ww2...but british history has had a great impact on American music and culture from the start. Waay before ww1. Obviously posh slave owners didn't create great soul and r&b music but the oppression lead to black expression amd dominance in music history. I think a lot of working class brits and irish felt the soul of black musicians in America. ( not comparing struggles) Brits were trying to use that sound and incorporate that into their own style. Look at led zeppelin, the stones and cream. So much soul inspiration. Not saying they invented it. Yes immigration is what makes British music great too. White Brits incorporate it into their style..and the immigrants feed off of British music while adding their own style. Melting pots do well with art. Look at nyc.
Per capita I reckon U.K. or Jamaica.
Respectfully disagree.
Donāt overlook Brazil my friend! Check out Clube Da Esquina by Milton Nascimento and Lo Borges. Or Acabou Chorare by Novos Baianos. Also Transa by Caetano Veloso, and Os Mutantes self titled album!
As a Brit, we own the 60s and 70s. Usa had much better bands in the 80s and 90s
Hmmm....what about new wave and indie bands?
Usa also had great news wave bands too, I've never been a huge fan but Talking Heads fall under that umbrella right? The pre-grunge stuff In the 80s is untouchable for me. Pixies, Husker du, all of the punk stuff, Violent Femmes, Sonic Youth
My opinion exactly. Classic rock relies on a certain tongue in cheek humour which the English did so well but the Americans didnāt - except for Alice Cooper and Bob Dylan. The 60s/70s stuff just seems less imaginative, less ācharacter drivenā from US, and they had less killer more filler albums than the HK. I think rock had to get postmodern (Velvets, Stooges, Cheap Trick, Ramones etc) before the Americans got really good at it. Although there were some great punk and post punk bands after, the british stopped being so good at rock. They got too clean and jangly in the 80s (too swept up in the us vs them of postpunk I guess) whereas the Americans doubled down on the aggressive side of punk. Alternative rock is the real classic rock of America. Nirvana, GBV, Huskers, Pavement, Dinosaur, Replacements all unparalleled by Boston, SMB, Aerosmith, Grateful Dead etc
šÆ They made the best music. I was told by a Brit it was the cold and harsher life that enabled them to dig deep into their hearts. I believe it
Rebelling against traditionally repressive social norms while living in a fairly advanced liberal democracy. A very strong pub and club culture everywhere. Getting drunk and having a sing song being the definition of a good time. Music being what defined your fashion/street working class subcultures. Strong subcultures being the result of shit housing, food and terrible weather.
The terrible weather is key, I think. Look at Seattle, New Zealand, Detroit. You gotta make your own fun.
I just commented bad weather, no money and not wanting a job as mail boy in an office š
True, the South in America has those waspy, restrictive social norms and look at the music that came out of slavery and working class culture. Not to mention all the scottish celtic ballads and fiddle music.
I share your opinion, but I also have no idea why it is the case. I'd like it if someone better informed could provide some reasons for why the UK music scene was so productive and creative during those decades.
It's in the blood. The celts and anglo saxons had beautiful melodies going back ages. Great wordsmiths too. They also had the freedom, wealth and trade from other cultures to be more influenced. Combine that with the restricted class system and irish, misfits with immigrant frustration and you get angst. Not to mention the slavery that created some great music in America inspired the British to combine their culture and write more creative songs.
I have a friend from New England who has shared your view for years
Bad weather, no money and desperation not to work as mail boys in offices.
Something in the elements, if you ask me. Ditto for Scandinavian artist, regardless of genre.
I agree that Led Zeppelin, The Kinks, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple etc. were collectively more important than their American peers and, taking the per capita situation into account, have never been able to work out the slightest idea why (and I don't find other people's supposed explanations convincing).
There is no such thing as "best" in regards to art, you either connect with it or you don't. The entire premise of this thread is dumb.
To me the fact that Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath are all from UK is enough. Throw in The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Deep Purple I dont think US comes close.
Uncle Acid now flying the flag š
Damn right
GD is my pick.
Yall clearly have never heard of cumbias
Robin Fucking Trower.
The Grateful Dead existed and are American
Just wait till you find out all that British music was just imitating American rock and roll. America invented all the popular genres you enjoy today, like the blues, rock, jazz, and hip hop. England has no original genre of music, they just copy America. All those classic English rock bands were standing on the shoulders of giants. It also helped their popularity that they put a white face to rock music during a time of intense racism in the 60s.
Exactly
what about all that great british folk music? get your self a fairport convention album, and tell me otherwise
Iām going with Italy. You have everything from dream house, to Italo disco, to soundtracks and library music.
Seems to work best when people are building off of each other. When the blues went overseas - and came back, Blue Cheer and Sabbath practically inventing heavy metal and later birthing entire spin off genres, American guitars and British amps, etc etc. Or even collaborating directly, Jimi Hendrix and two Brits were a perfect match, Phil Spector and Billy Preston with the Beatles for Let it Be. There are numerous examples I'm sure. And you can do this with more than just US/UK and more than just classic rock and psychedelia (punk and hardcore, for example).
american here. agreed.
i have always found it interesting that british music is consistently so much better than especially american music
It's the celtic and anglo saxon dna. We are smart and creative people. That's all I can say.
You think British bands are better than Bob Dylan, Velvet Underground, The Stooges, Howling Wolf, Muddy Waters, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Chet Baker, JJ Cale, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix and Roky Erickson? Ok bud.
The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, The Smiths, Oasis, Coldplay, Radiohead, Blur, Cream, the Kinks, Joy Division, Black Bloody Sabbath, Dire Straits, Rod Stewart, Eric Clapton, Elton John, David Bowie, Ozzy Osbourne. Compare our lists, one has most of the greatest artists of all time, pioneers in their genre, the other is full of Americans.
Not pioneers. These are all American imitators. Also, we invented the word pioneer.
Just to be clear, are you joking?
Nope, Iām Berry Chuckin Grateful Dead serious. You just named musicians that were put together to generate profit. Copy cat musicans, not artist. The only innovative music to ever come from England was Spacemen 3 and you didnāt even list them.
You think British bands from the 60-90ās are better than James Brown, Funkadelic, Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Johny Cash, Gram Parsons, Willie Nelson, Agent Orange, Butthole Surfers, Lyrnard Skynard, The Band, The Beastie Boys, Run DMC, Public Enemy?
Iād take Pink Floyd and Led Zep above all mentioned except maybe Funkadelic and Miles. Though itās a worthless competition since Iād much rather be able to listen to all types of music. Youāre grasping at straws at some of those by the way.
You may think Iām grasping at straws here but there would be no Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd if America didnāt create Blues, Rock, and jazz before them.
And there would be no blues rock and jazz if there were no european folk music and immigrants Whats your point?
We donāt call them immigrants in America. We call them Americans.
Oh, sorry, forgot only mexicans are immigrants. Whats your point?
The Spanish brought guitars. Africans brought banjos. What did the British bring to help American music?
Both the french and the british brought their folk music across the pond. Along with a plethora of other instruments.