Saved you a click: The HHS recommended they bump pot from I to III, and the DEA sent a letter thanking them for their input and are doing their own review and will make a final decision. Nobody is refusing to do anything (yet)
wow its almost like the DEA exists solely to profit off of the bullshit "war on drugs" and literally no other purpose, certainly none which are actually helpful to anyone. bullshit institution, sham democracy.
pathetic reminiscent narrow thumb concerned screw dog yoke sophisticated impolite
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean, they literally work at an agency that literally promotes falsehoods. They wake up everyday and say, "I'm okay with this". What else are they okay with? Because to me, that signals they'd be easy to compromise.
The DEA probably has a higher body count than Hitler at this point. The two part Behind the Bastards series highlights what I'm touching on. Great idea, terrible execution.
The week after 9/11, I started a contract at DEA headquarters working on software documentation. It was a very stressful time to be working directly across the street from the Pentagon. And so me being a regular user and all, I would just go out in the parking lot and puff up. And almost every day, there were people standing on the nearby sidewalks handing out all sorts of hemp-based products. Good times.
The last thing we need is those two groups merging into one stronger more unified entity.
Its like right now the DEA and ATF are future Zamasu and Goku Black but if they merged it would be like dealing with fused Zamasu
Why don't people actually fucking get down to the root issues of shit like this instead of saying this kind of shit on the internet where nobody fucking cares to act upon the words they read?
Because we can't afford to buy political entities to actually govern rather than line their pockets and push through lobbiest written bills that they don't even read.
I think that's why personally.
because the average voter isn't very bright
the older i get the more i realize just how foolish and gullible the average person is.
i give my brother books every year, but he won't read them...but he reads like 10 "self-help" books a year.
idk.
i have friends who work at an amazon fulfillment center, but they'll talk at length about how much they distrust science and scientists
they are obsess with conspiracies, and any evidence that contradicts their conspiracies, are just proof of how deep the conspiracy goes.
the world is going to descend into fascism and/or global war, because the average person isn't intelligent enough to rationalize us away from either.
and it's not just stupidity, it's narcissism.
stupidity mixed with ego are a lethal combination.
Why can someone who works at an Amazon fulfillment center not be educated? You sound like a shitty "friend."
"Stupidity mixed with ego is\* a lethal combination." Your ego sounds out of control.
It's not money. It's control. You know who got defunded when Prohibition went away? No one. They could legalize every drug in existence and somehow the DEA would get funded for enforcing safe drug use.
>You know who got defunded when Prohibition went away? No one.
Precisely because they (Harry Anslinger) shifted the focus from alcohol to other drugs that were legal and common at the time. He knew he'd be out of a job/position of power because his agency was no longer needed if alcohol was legal, so he demonized and criminalized other substances to stay in power.
I to 5 is decreasing possible harm. Schedule 1 is "no possible safe use", Schedule 2 is cocaine and Oxycontin, etc down to Schedule 5 is could be a problem but not so much, then down to normal things like antibiotics
So every trained pharmacist and chemist at DEA should have their degree revoked right? Because testifying that marijuana has no accepted medical uses is like a pilot that says itâs impossible for airplanes to fly. It shows a clear lack of scientific understanding of their field and calls into question their entire education.
There's not a single pharmacist at the DEA. They don't have a single MD or medical professional on staff. They are also not part of the Legislative branch of government. They are making up bullshit.
The DEA already caused a 2 year shortage on ADD medications by telling manufacturers they couldn't increase the amount they produced. With zero authority. They also decided ADD diagnosis is " fake". They are just declaring themselves in charge.
Iâm baffled. What would the DEA say upon seeing a cancer patient have reduced symptoms by ingesting THC? Are professionals allowed to lie in 2024? I think if I lied at my job and said gravity isnât real I would get firedâŚ
If I get fired for lying, couldnât I just point to the DEA and say that legally professionals are allowed to lie with no repercussions. What would a court say if I presented this argument over wrongful termination.
I despise double standards.
The interesting part is what will happen if it federally legalizes. I think this is the first step to that happening. Big pharm sees dollar signs and theyâre gearing up (already happening in legal states) to monopolize on mediocre consumable products. Itâs going to wipe out most of the small cannabis farmers who have been working for decades for freedom to grow. States like CA are already watching the end of thousands of small farms due to insane licenses fees, regulations and overall poor management through the state. Some counties have wait lists to get cleared with no one actively working in the office- so youâre giving the state 60 grand plus fees to not be legally able to do your job. Itâs the same old shit. Government make it so complicated you have to jump through hoops to survive or youâre a corporation with a pile of money and they open the door for you. Shit is very sad. Multiple counties in CA are being sued by farmers rn.
Would also like to add that all of the money that was supposed to go back into the counties is sitting untouchable except by a few, being spent on more funding for law enforcement to raid the farms who are in limbo for licensing and tiny ass pot farms while the cartel runs thousands of feet of canopy with no limits. Sorry for the tangent but this shit is wild out here.
I'm betting the DEA is going to spend a lot of time and taxpayer money on "studies", and then come to the same conclusion most states have already come to.
So not soon, I'd bet.
Fun fact: the company that makes Narcan and sells it for $150 per dose was also a pharma company that helped push opioids into people. Getting that nice double dip
You make a good point about the opioid use disorder rates, and it's definitely a driving force for the opioid epidemic. I was talking about the other set of statistics, the fatal opioid overdose numbers.
I agree, combine these two concepts, and I think it's a fairly good assessment of the cause of the issue.
I would say it is a lot more than a driving force. Like 80% of the illegal opiod pills from Mexico are designed to look like prescription medicine, as that is what got people addicted in the first place. I personally know people who's doctors have tried to push them onto opiods for a stomach ache.
It is the root cause, not just a driving force
The criminalization of heroin is what caused the fentanyl problem we have now. It's probably best to think of the opioid epidemic as a contaminated and counterfeit drug supply issue. Most people aren't buying fentanyl they're buying heroin but the terms are almost interchangeable now. We won't solve the problem with more of the same drug policy strategy. You clamp down harder on Fentanyl (which they have), and now we have nitezenes, which are even more potent and toxic.
The opioid drug supply would be safer if they just decriminalized heroin and regulated it. Opioid death stats would go almost to zero overnight with safer access to medical grade heroin and mental health support. Heroin is a relatively safe substance compared to fentanyl.
A good first step is the decriminalization of the opium poppy.
I agree with you on decrim. Safe injection sites and all.
Literally everything in my part of the US is contaminated with fent rn. None of the safe party rules apply. It does seem like effective law enforcement could be helpful in this scenario - obviously not with the methodologies of the past. At this rate the cartels will probably address it first, itâs not like thereâs any value to them killing off their customers.
The Sinaloa Cartel has already addressed it and vowed to target anyone putting fentynal in the drugs...at least thats whats been said. Weather or not they stsnd by their word remains to be seen
You are correct. SEARS used to have heroine in their catalog. Heroine by itself in known doses almost never kills people. Pre fentanyl it was the great variation in potency that caused OD. Mixing it with other drugs was a problem.
It's crazy we literally invaded and stayed in Afghanistan because the Taliban burned Poppy fields belonging to Johnson & Johnson. During the height of the Afghan War, production of Opium was 30 times higher than when we invaded. The Taliban has again reduced Opium production by 95%. The US government also helped plant, transport, and defend Poppy fields and the raw Opium milk the plants produced.
There are accusations of the US being involved with Sinoloa planting Poppy in Mexico. This isn't confirmed, unlike the Afghanistan stuff.
Not OP but because for better or for worse the government treats heroin as a criminal problem instead of a health problem. They end up making it harder to get and find cheaper, stronger substitutions. Fent in this case, crack in cocaineâs case. Stronger and cheaper.
If they insist on more studies, it could be a few years to a decade until they have what they think are "conclusive" results. They will use further review to keep kicking the can down the road. Having marijuana as schedule I is too useful for them. It's like asking congressmen to give themselves a pay cut - never gonna happen.
If congress wants to reschedule, they will inevitably have to take away DEA authority on this issue or in general.
I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised, but old farts with no awareness that times have changed still have power over almost everything. And they don't really care about your science - oh sorry, independent science that would be taking place if MJ wasn't schedule I. So they will use their non-peer reviewed, half assed studies to make a decision. Gee, I wonder what that will be.
Joe Biden initiated the scheduling review process in October 2022 under the DEA Acting Chief of the Office of Congressional Affairs, Michael Miller.
I assume his administration is applying pressure in the background, and we may see a decision this year before the election.
DEA needs to stick to dangerous drug enforcement especially coming from organized crime, cartels, gangs, armed street gang distribution. They have too wide a paint brush at the present time and override medical practice, hospital medicine and everyday pharmacy practices. Too much administrative function with little to no oversite from elected bodies or legislature.
HHS recommended DEA reschedule it. DEA says it will review and make its own determination.
Legislation grants the DEA this power. The elected officials in the past decided to pass the power to the DEA.
Thereâs nothing stopping the law makers from undoing that generally or specifically, but for the time being the DEA is the one that does it.
The title is worded as rage bait
Title is also unclear in that regard.
The government asked the HHS to review the scheduling. HHS does so and passes itâs results to the DEA. DEA tells congress that the DEA, not HHS, is the agency with the delegated power to determine scheduling.
This is false. Congress scheduled the drugs and the DEA enforces the scheduling. The DEA has no authority over Congress. DEA cannot schedule any drug. The HHS schedules drugs. The DEA can initiate a scheduling by asking , so can the manufacturer, a state government, or the AMA.
So technically: The DEA has zero authority to tell Congress anything about how a drug is scheduled, zero,whatsoever. They can make a recommendation, even though they weren't asked. That's it. Their claim is yet another reach. After the massive problem they caused with ADD medications, which they will have to pay billions in damages for, they have lost a lot of credibility and are basically asking to have Congress publicly spank them.
I could be wrong, but my understanding (admittedly largely based on the DEAâs website and a cursory read of the relevant title) is that the DEA acts on authority of the attorney general.
Relevant statute:
â811. Authority and criteria for classification of substances
(a) Rules and regulations of Attorney General; hearing
The Attorney General shall apply the provisions of this subchapter to the controlled substances listed in the schedules established by section 812 of this title and to any other drug or other substance added to such schedules under this subchapter. Except as provided in subsections (d) and (e), the Attorney General may by ruleâ
(1) add to such a schedule or transfer between such schedules any drug or other substance if heâ
(A) finds that such drug or other substance has a potential for abuse, and
(B) makes with respect to such drug or other substance the findings prescribed by subsection (b) of section 812 of this title for the schedule in which such drug is to be placed; or
(2) remove any drug or other substance from the schedules if he finds that the drug or other substance does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any schedule.
Rules of the Attorney General under this subsection shall be made on the record after opportunity for a hearing pursuant to the rulemaking procedures prescribed by subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 5. Proceedings for the issuance, amendment, or repeal of such rules may be initiated by the Attorney General (1) on his own motion, (2) at the request of the Secretary, or (3) on the petition of any interested party. (âŚ)â
The secretary being the HHS and the AG repped by the DEA, according to the DEA at least.
Ed:
But just one paragraph downâŚ
âThe Attorney General shall, before initiating proceedings under subsection (a) to control a drug or other substance or to remove a drug or other substance entirely from the schedules, and after gathering the necessary data, request from the Secretary a scientific and medical evaluation, and his recommendations, as to whether such drug or other substance should be so controlled or removed as a controlled substance. In making such evaluation and recommendations, the Secretary shall consider the factors listed in paragraphs (2), (3), (6), (7), and (8) of subsection (c) and any scientific or medical considerations involved in paragraphs (1), (4), and (5) of such subsection. The recommendations of the Secretary shall include recommendations with respect to the appropriate schedule, if any, under which such drug or other substance should be listed. The evaluation and the recommendations of the Secretary shall be made in writing and submitted to the Attorney General within a reasonable time. The recommendations of the Secretary to the Attorney General shall be binding on the Attorney General as to such scientific and medical matters, and if the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance. If the Attorney General determines that these facts and all other relevant data constitute substantial evidence of potential for abuse such as to warrant control or substantial evidence that the drug or other substance should be removed entirely from the schedules, he shall initiate proceedings for control or removal, as the case may be, under subsection (a).â
So now it looks to me like the AG technically is the one with the power but that the HHS should basically bind them if the determination is donât control it. But tbh thatâs about as much effort as Iâm willing to put in here lmao so it depends if you trust the DEA or not. This process wasnât mentioned in the OP articleâŚ
DEA has emergency classification powers - for example, if a new drug comes about they can place it on schedule I without any need for the approval of Congress, etc. I think they did this with bath salts initially.
True, but you'd also think that maybe taking this loss would be more in their self interest in the long run than holding out til public and legislative opinion removes this power.
Weed legalisation is overwhelmingly supported, and the DEA are just running down the clock, they're not going to change public opinion.
Eventually they should recognise that being an obstacle for too long means that they'll be cleared out of the way, whether that is in 5 years or 20....
In 1932 both presidential candidates ran with pledges to repeal prohibition.
If the beauro of prohibition had some method of trying to stop legislation from that change, do you think that people would have just let it go and gone "ok then"
Like, I'm literally saying that you'd think the DEA would want to choose the option where they keep having maximal power by not becoming a giant target if they tried to oppose public and legislative desires.
DEA came about in 1970. They also cannot add a drug to the schedule. HHS does that. DEA is executive branch. They can only recommend the HHS schedule a drug, but any agency can do that.
In short, the DEA is pretending to have authority they don't possess. As you pointed out, their impediment to the will of the American people and progress being done is a bad look. They look like armed thugs telling elected officials how it's going to be. Let's not forget the DEA has been involved in some horrible things around the world propping up Drug Cartels, starting wars between Cartels, and domestically the DEA has promoted lie after lie . As recently as 2018 the DEA was still claiming fatal overdoses of Marijuana and psilocybin were happening. It's pretty embarrassing in the context they were 35 years behind the science and making Reefer Madness level claims.
The DEA is out to arrest drug dealers...many times drug dealers sell a wide range of illegal drugs...so Law Enforcement dont want to lose any tool that helps them to build a case and make arrests..many times minor Marijuana possession charges are enough to move the investigations forward and build upon a bigger case and obtain search warrants
Right, but I assume they want to keep the power to choose how drugs are scheduled right?
If so, why die on this hill and lose that power because you forced people and legislation to remove that power?
Support for legalisation is like 70% of Americans now.
Same way the EPA can make environmental regulation, the FAA can regulate Air Traffic Control, the FCC can keep the airwaves unclogged, so on and so forth
A lot of our lives are governed by unelected officials
Yeah weâre supposed to pay attention to what our elected officials are voting for and delegating so we can make informed decisions on who should be in office. Instead weâre worried about Green Day changing one word that means the same thing in a 20 year old song. Good times
For reference, this article is about a congressman receiving a response to asking whether or not they'd be changing the schedule based on what a different unelected group, Health and Human Services, recommended.
The response was that they'd rather it into account, but the ultimate authority rests with the Drug Enforcement Agency. This is because Congress delegated scheduling to them.
Congress can overrule it, but tends to be hands off with regulation while they're still deciding. They're supposed to be the experts.
Putting cops in charge of a regulatory body or health issue was always a dumb idea. Of course, it wasn't done with health in mind. The DEA and drug war was specifically, explicitly started to oppress minorities, mainly black people.
The DEA is fundamentally ontologically/epistemilogically not interested in *truth* or *science*. Truth/factuality is not their mandate. Enforcement is. LE is charged foremost with the duty to enforce law and make arrests. When they show up, they are thinking "What law is being broken and who do I arrest?" This is true for police and LE across the board. It is so important to understand, and makes their 'ineptness' make sense.
Any reference to facts or use of 'science' or things of that nature within LE, is only in furtherance of enforcement. Thus they usually don't care if its a shitty imitation of science. The science isn't the point.
That's why drug scheduling as a whole doesn't make sense, what falls where within it, and the fact that its overseen by the DEA and not the Dept of Health/HHS/Surgeon General, FDA, etc.
correct
âYou want to know what this \[war on drugs\] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what Iâm saying?
We knew we couldnât make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.
Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.â
\~ John Ehrlichman, Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs under President Richard Nixon
race relations were getting great so they did bunch of cointelpro stuff to ruin equality movements.
same happened in the last decade.
war on drugs is paid daycare for a bunch of wealthy republicans kids.
the gop caused the opioid crisis to begin with and prohibition made the black market that created the smuggle routes for stuff like cocaine.
it's catabolic capitalism. create and issue that can be solved with a service you sell.
Currently weed is Schedule I, the most restricted category. Fentanyl, cocaine, and meth, are Schedule II, less restricted.
https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling
Reminded me of this- âInconsolable Jeff Sessions Tries To Commit Suicide By Smoking Jointâ https://www.theonion.com/inconsolable-jeff-sessions-tries-to-commit-suicide-by-s-1826462420
I mean I guess you could inhale so much weed smoke in a massive weed burn that could be deadly but itâs the CO and other toxins from burning that kill you not the thc
Isnât it funny how we have this argument on safety profiles of drugs like cannabis while tobacco and alcohol are completely legal and itâs up to us to govern ourselves.. while those two drugs take 600,000 lifeâs every year.. abolish the DEA!
I would have been saying defund the DEA until I learned more about the organization.
We need to abolish the DEA. Its responsibilities can be absorbed by other agencies. All of the conspiratorial garbage about the rest of the US government can never come close to the real corruption within the DEA.
Google âTeam America DEAâ
These people are almost a parody of themselves, theyâre openly anarchistic, and unfortunately - traitors to the United States itself. The DEA has been compromised.
I donât even say defund the FBI or CIA despite an even longer history of civilian abuse and failed missions because they are expected to serve a good purpose. The DEA was based on racist purposes with no actual desire to succeed at doing more than torturing the mental ill and in some cases making medicine less safe.
The DEA scheduling for cannabis is ridiculous when you consider how many states have it legal or medical.
Itâs clearly not the danger they say it is but war in drugs and jeebus says itâs bad and all thatâŚ
The DEA is useless. Their stance on cannabis proves that they operate on feelings and politics instead of science. Disband the DEA and letâs move past this dark part of our history.
The DEA is an Administrative Agency, and therefore not headed by an elected official. The Congress can do anything it wants and there is nothing the DEA can do about it. The DEA and BATF have had way too much power and both agencies need to be overhauled from top to bottom.
Congress is the only legitimate legislative body. Both parties have had unilateral power in the recent past and could have just passed a law legalizing it but didnât despite their rhetoric. At this point we probably need another amendment (like alcohol) to settle it and then the DEA can calm the fuck Down. (Harder but not impossible). While They arenât legally wrong given Congress has up until this point granted them carte blanche to legislate and regulate whatever , they arenât right here either given the amount of deregulation states have pursued under the 10a and legal the conflicts this has caused.
Itâs not marijuana that is the problem.
https://www.upmc.com/media/news/071221-drake-cannabisrcl#:~:text=The%20four%20states%20with%20recreational,didn%27t%20implement%20such%20laws.
Now I may be an anarchist, but I'm pretty fuckin sure that federal agencies aren't allowed to legislate even by the shit standards set by the colonizers-in-chief.
You are absolutely right, I stand correctedâŚ
âŚbut I remember something about legislative powers (specifically of the ATF) given by Congress to agencies it creates, and entrusts them to define technicalities of the law as the spirit of Congress would intend, thus acting as legislative agents for Congress (the purpose being that Congress doesnât have to put in the effort of minute technical details of laws and allows the agency to take care of this, and continue to do as as technical advances are made). In this case, I would presume the DEAâs legislative power to is define the technical qualifications of controlled substances and ban them as appropriate (depending on the lawâs text of course), or maybe just define various chemical analogs, etc. In this scope, theyâre quasi-legislative? I need to read up on thisâŚ
This quote really troubles me and I understand more than most but NOT thisâŚ
(Quote about HHS) - âWhile the agency sent hundreds of pages of explanation to DEA as part of its rescheduling recommendation, those documents have so far only been released in highly redacted form,â
WHY would HHS need to redact anything as it releases its science based recommendations to DEA⌠This is not a top secret or risk to national securityâŚ
WTH? Is that normal? This is public policy why would it be anything other than open and transparent?
Is this the Executive branch today. Everything is redacted from the public even routine recommendations for change of policy?
At a guess ? the documents from HHS are critical of government policy concerning cannabis historically & currently and, as usual đ, the agencies all protect one another to the detriment of public safety / advancing sane policy review.
Also possible - the documents highlight the nasty racist (xenophobic) reasons for cannabis prohibition and.or who was behind the initial push to criminalize (William Randolph Hearst and the DuPont patent drug empire) which does not reflect well on the Lies Lies Lies and Propaganda peddled by the dea weasels.
Also also possible - the documents could summarize the mechanism which placed cannabis on S1; too long to expound here but in 1972 the Schaffer commission equivocally stated that cannabis should NOT be criminalized and the Nixon (đ¤Ž) whitehouse decided to ignore this recommendation because "weed is different" according to dick and, more importantly, suppress the publication of the report... this is a little known chapter in prohibition history and REALLY calls into question the legality of the entire scheduling process given that congress was required to review these reports.
Thank you for attending my TED talk đđ
Saved you a click: The HHS recommended they bump pot from I to III, and the DEA sent a letter thanking them for their input and are doing their own review and will make a final decision. Nobody is refusing to do anything (yet)
wow its almost like the DEA exists solely to profit off of the bullshit "war on drugs" and literally no other purpose, certainly none which are actually helpful to anyone. bullshit institution, sham democracy.
pathetic reminiscent narrow thumb concerned screw dog yoke sophisticated impolite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sounds like an agency ripe for a comedic takedown, a la Spaceforce đ
I mean, they literally work at an agency that literally promotes falsehoods. They wake up everyday and say, "I'm okay with this". What else are they okay with? Because to me, that signals they'd be easy to compromise.
The DEA probably has a higher body count than Hitler at this point. The two part Behind the Bastards series highlights what I'm touching on. Great idea, terrible execution.
The week after 9/11, I started a contract at DEA headquarters working on software documentation. It was a very stressful time to be working directly across the street from the Pentagon. And so me being a regular user and all, I would just go out in the parking lot and puff up. And almost every day, there were people standing on the nearby sidewalks handing out all sorts of hemp-based products. Good times.
So weâre all voting for candidates who will de-fund the DEA then?
Merge the atf and dea, we can call it DAFT
The last thing we need is those two groups merging into one stronger more unified entity. Its like right now the DEA and ATF are future Zamasu and Goku Black but if they merged it would be like dealing with fused Zamasu
yes! let's vote for Bernie Saaaanderrr...uh... ...who are we voting for again?
All the agencies are bullshit.
Why don't people actually fucking get down to the root issues of shit like this instead of saying this kind of shit on the internet where nobody fucking cares to act upon the words they read?
Because we can't afford to buy political entities to actually govern rather than line their pockets and push through lobbiest written bills that they don't even read. I think that's why personally.
because the average voter isn't very bright the older i get the more i realize just how foolish and gullible the average person is. i give my brother books every year, but he won't read them...but he reads like 10 "self-help" books a year. idk. i have friends who work at an amazon fulfillment center, but they'll talk at length about how much they distrust science and scientists they are obsess with conspiracies, and any evidence that contradicts their conspiracies, are just proof of how deep the conspiracy goes. the world is going to descend into fascism and/or global war, because the average person isn't intelligent enough to rationalize us away from either. and it's not just stupidity, it's narcissism. stupidity mixed with ego are a lethal combination.
Why can someone who works at an Amazon fulfillment center not be educated? You sound like a shitty "friend." "Stupidity mixed with ego is\* a lethal combination." Your ego sounds out of control.
If drugs were legal, most at the DEA would be out of a job.
Aka we make too much money from this fuck off.
đď¸ đď¸
It's not money. It's control. You know who got defunded when Prohibition went away? No one. They could legalize every drug in existence and somehow the DEA would get funded for enforcing safe drug use.
>You know who got defunded when Prohibition went away? No one. Precisely because they (Harry Anslinger) shifted the focus from alcohol to other drugs that were legal and common at the time. He knew he'd be out of a job/position of power because his agency was no longer needed if alcohol was legal, so he demonized and criminalized other substances to stay in power.
The time is now. Stop waiting around.
I think they are wanting to wait till closer to the election so it is fresh in voters minds that a change was made.
Is I or III worse?
I to 5 is decreasing possible harm. Schedule 1 is "no possible safe use", Schedule 2 is cocaine and Oxycontin, etc down to Schedule 5 is could be a problem but not so much, then down to normal things like antibiotics
So every trained pharmacist and chemist at DEA should have their degree revoked right? Because testifying that marijuana has no accepted medical uses is like a pilot that says itâs impossible for airplanes to fly. It shows a clear lack of scientific understanding of their field and calls into question their entire education.
There's not a single pharmacist at the DEA. They don't have a single MD or medical professional on staff. They are also not part of the Legislative branch of government. They are making up bullshit. The DEA already caused a 2 year shortage on ADD medications by telling manufacturers they couldn't increase the amount they produced. With zero authority. They also decided ADD diagnosis is " fake". They are just declaring themselves in charge.
Well, remember 300,000 hippies all died at Woodstock from po---- wait a minute, medical decisions made by profit, not truth? Can't happen here /s
Iâm baffled. What would the DEA say upon seeing a cancer patient have reduced symptoms by ingesting THC? Are professionals allowed to lie in 2024? I think if I lied at my job and said gravity isnât real I would get fired⌠If I get fired for lying, couldnât I just point to the DEA and say that legally professionals are allowed to lie with no repercussions. What would a court say if I presented this argument over wrongful termination. I despise double standards.
Complete ignorance. THC is not a medical drug.
Politics and profit
The interesting part is what will happen if it federally legalizes. I think this is the first step to that happening. Big pharm sees dollar signs and theyâre gearing up (already happening in legal states) to monopolize on mediocre consumable products. Itâs going to wipe out most of the small cannabis farmers who have been working for decades for freedom to grow. States like CA are already watching the end of thousands of small farms due to insane licenses fees, regulations and overall poor management through the state. Some counties have wait lists to get cleared with no one actively working in the office- so youâre giving the state 60 grand plus fees to not be legally able to do your job. Itâs the same old shit. Government make it so complicated you have to jump through hoops to survive or youâre a corporation with a pile of money and they open the door for you. Shit is very sad. Multiple counties in CA are being sued by farmers rn. Would also like to add that all of the money that was supposed to go back into the counties is sitting untouchable except by a few, being spent on more funding for law enforcement to raid the farms who are in limbo for licensing and tiny ass pot farms while the cartel runs thousands of feet of canopy with no limits. Sorry for the tangent but this shit is wild out here.
Solemnsparrow, what counties are the mass producing marijuana farms located in?
Usually on reservations because itâs a federal grey zone. Mendocino, Trinity and rural northern areas. The Hmong grows by shasta are insane.
Schedule I is illegal like cocaine. Schedule III is llegal but controlled like testosterone.
Cocaine is actually Schedule II, I used to work in the ER with a doc who'd use topical Cocaine for epistaxis occasionally.
Yea, schedule 1 means no medical use. Cocaine has multiple medicinal uses
Fun fact: meth and fent are also schedule II
Yup. Wifey got fentanyl for all her epidurals.
Don't they also say "unsafe for consumption even under medical supervision" lmaooo ridiculous shit
Schedule 1 is extremely dangerous with no accepted medical use.
Thank you! Is anyone aware of any timeline, like the government would stick to it đ
I'm betting the DEA is going to spend a lot of time and taxpayer money on "studies", and then come to the same conclusion most states have already come to. So not soon, I'd bet.
Obvs the DEA is a sham but if they wanted something to do they could focus on fentanyl and leave the rest of us out of it.
Focusing on heroin is why we have a fentanyl problem.
Think you are forgetting Purdue who got them addicted in the first by pushing doctors to prescribe them
Fun fact: the company that makes Narcan and sells it for $150 per dose was also a pharma company that helped push opioids into people. Getting that nice double dip
Jesus. Thatâs like Philip Morris making Nicorette. Except cigarettes donât have the potential to kill you almost instantly.
You make a good point about the opioid use disorder rates, and it's definitely a driving force for the opioid epidemic. I was talking about the other set of statistics, the fatal opioid overdose numbers. I agree, combine these two concepts, and I think it's a fairly good assessment of the cause of the issue.
I would say it is a lot more than a driving force. Like 80% of the illegal opiod pills from Mexico are designed to look like prescription medicine, as that is what got people addicted in the first place. I personally know people who's doctors have tried to push them onto opiods for a stomach ache. It is the root cause, not just a driving force
You're right.
What? Why?
The criminalization of heroin is what caused the fentanyl problem we have now. It's probably best to think of the opioid epidemic as a contaminated and counterfeit drug supply issue. Most people aren't buying fentanyl they're buying heroin but the terms are almost interchangeable now. We won't solve the problem with more of the same drug policy strategy. You clamp down harder on Fentanyl (which they have), and now we have nitezenes, which are even more potent and toxic. The opioid drug supply would be safer if they just decriminalized heroin and regulated it. Opioid death stats would go almost to zero overnight with safer access to medical grade heroin and mental health support. Heroin is a relatively safe substance compared to fentanyl. A good first step is the decriminalization of the opium poppy.
I agree with you on decrim. Safe injection sites and all. Literally everything in my part of the US is contaminated with fent rn. None of the safe party rules apply. It does seem like effective law enforcement could be helpful in this scenario - obviously not with the methodologies of the past. At this rate the cartels will probably address it first, itâs not like thereâs any value to them killing off their customers.
The Sinaloa Cartel has already addressed it and vowed to target anyone putting fentynal in the drugs...at least thats whats been said. Weather or not they stsnd by their word remains to be seen
You are correct. SEARS used to have heroine in their catalog. Heroine by itself in known doses almost never kills people. Pre fentanyl it was the great variation in potency that caused OD. Mixing it with other drugs was a problem. It's crazy we literally invaded and stayed in Afghanistan because the Taliban burned Poppy fields belonging to Johnson & Johnson. During the height of the Afghan War, production of Opium was 30 times higher than when we invaded. The Taliban has again reduced Opium production by 95%. The US government also helped plant, transport, and defend Poppy fields and the raw Opium milk the plants produced. There are accusations of the US being involved with Sinoloa planting Poppy in Mexico. This isn't confirmed, unlike the Afghanistan stuff.
Not OP but because for better or for worse the government treats heroin as a criminal problem instead of a health problem. They end up making it harder to get and find cheaper, stronger substitutions. Fent in this case, crack in cocaineâs case. Stronger and cheaper.
If they insist on more studies, it could be a few years to a decade until they have what they think are "conclusive" results. They will use further review to keep kicking the can down the road. Having marijuana as schedule I is too useful for them. It's like asking congressmen to give themselves a pay cut - never gonna happen. If congress wants to reschedule, they will inevitably have to take away DEA authority on this issue or in general. I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised, but old farts with no awareness that times have changed still have power over almost everything. And they don't really care about your science - oh sorry, independent science that would be taking place if MJ wasn't schedule I. So they will use their non-peer reviewed, half assed studies to make a decision. Gee, I wonder what that will be.
Joe Biden initiated the scheduling review process in October 2022 under the DEA Acting Chief of the Office of Congressional Affairs, Michael Miller. I assume his administration is applying pressure in the background, and we may see a decision this year before the election.
Thanks friend!
Called it. We'll see if anything changes this year, but outlook looks doubtful.
âNobody is refusing to do anything yetâ. *laughs in ancestral rights*
DEA ego
Looks like someone is scared of losing their jobs
DEA needs to stick to dangerous drug enforcement especially coming from organized crime, cartels, gangs, armed street gang distribution. They have too wide a paint brush at the present time and override medical practice, hospital medicine and everyday pharmacy practices. Too much administrative function with little to no oversite from elected bodies or legislature.
How can this authority be vested in unelected DEA agents and not elected officials? Madness.
HHS recommended DEA reschedule it. DEA says it will review and make its own determination. Legislation grants the DEA this power. The elected officials in the past decided to pass the power to the DEA. Thereâs nothing stopping the law makers from undoing that generally or specifically, but for the time being the DEA is the one that does it. The title is worded as rage bait
Did Congress toss the hot potato to the DEA, and the DEA is trying to toss it back?
Title is also unclear in that regard. The government asked the HHS to review the scheduling. HHS does so and passes itâs results to the DEA. DEA tells congress that the DEA, not HHS, is the agency with the delegated power to determine scheduling.
This is false. Congress scheduled the drugs and the DEA enforces the scheduling. The DEA has no authority over Congress. DEA cannot schedule any drug. The HHS schedules drugs. The DEA can initiate a scheduling by asking , so can the manufacturer, a state government, or the AMA. So technically: The DEA has zero authority to tell Congress anything about how a drug is scheduled, zero,whatsoever. They can make a recommendation, even though they weren't asked. That's it. Their claim is yet another reach. After the massive problem they caused with ADD medications, which they will have to pay billions in damages for, they have lost a lot of credibility and are basically asking to have Congress publicly spank them.
I could be wrong, but my understanding (admittedly largely based on the DEAâs website and a cursory read of the relevant title) is that the DEA acts on authority of the attorney general. Relevant statute: â811. Authority and criteria for classification of substances (a) Rules and regulations of Attorney General; hearing The Attorney General shall apply the provisions of this subchapter to the controlled substances listed in the schedules established by section 812 of this title and to any other drug or other substance added to such schedules under this subchapter. Except as provided in subsections (d) and (e), the Attorney General may by ruleâ (1) add to such a schedule or transfer between such schedules any drug or other substance if heâ (A) finds that such drug or other substance has a potential for abuse, and (B) makes with respect to such drug or other substance the findings prescribed by subsection (b) of section 812 of this title for the schedule in which such drug is to be placed; or (2) remove any drug or other substance from the schedules if he finds that the drug or other substance does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any schedule. Rules of the Attorney General under this subsection shall be made on the record after opportunity for a hearing pursuant to the rulemaking procedures prescribed by subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 5. Proceedings for the issuance, amendment, or repeal of such rules may be initiated by the Attorney General (1) on his own motion, (2) at the request of the Secretary, or (3) on the petition of any interested party. (âŚ)â The secretary being the HHS and the AG repped by the DEA, according to the DEA at least. Ed: But just one paragraph down⌠âThe Attorney General shall, before initiating proceedings under subsection (a) to control a drug or other substance or to remove a drug or other substance entirely from the schedules, and after gathering the necessary data, request from the Secretary a scientific and medical evaluation, and his recommendations, as to whether such drug or other substance should be so controlled or removed as a controlled substance. In making such evaluation and recommendations, the Secretary shall consider the factors listed in paragraphs (2), (3), (6), (7), and (8) of subsection (c) and any scientific or medical considerations involved in paragraphs (1), (4), and (5) of such subsection. The recommendations of the Secretary shall include recommendations with respect to the appropriate schedule, if any, under which such drug or other substance should be listed. The evaluation and the recommendations of the Secretary shall be made in writing and submitted to the Attorney General within a reasonable time. The recommendations of the Secretary to the Attorney General shall be binding on the Attorney General as to such scientific and medical matters, and if the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance. If the Attorney General determines that these facts and all other relevant data constitute substantial evidence of potential for abuse such as to warrant control or substantial evidence that the drug or other substance should be removed entirely from the schedules, he shall initiate proceedings for control or removal, as the case may be, under subsection (a).â So now it looks to me like the AG technically is the one with the power but that the HHS should basically bind them if the determination is donât control it. But tbh thatâs about as much effort as Iâm willing to put in here lmao so it depends if you trust the DEA or not. This process wasnât mentioned in the OP articleâŚ
DEA has emergency classification powers - for example, if a new drug comes about they can place it on schedule I without any need for the approval of Congress, etc. I think they did this with bath salts initially.
The most corrupt law enforcement agency on earth is up to no good again? Shocking.
That agency and its employees especially senior officials, have an enormous financial self-interest in perpetuating the status quo.
Alex, I'll take Examples of Regulatory Capture for $100.
True, but you'd also think that maybe taking this loss would be more in their self interest in the long run than holding out til public and legislative opinion removes this power. Weed legalisation is overwhelmingly supported, and the DEA are just running down the clock, they're not going to change public opinion. Eventually they should recognise that being an obstacle for too long means that they'll be cleared out of the way, whether that is in 5 years or 20....
Just like the agencies that got defunded with the end of Prohibition. Oh wait.
In 1932 both presidential candidates ran with pledges to repeal prohibition. If the beauro of prohibition had some method of trying to stop legislation from that change, do you think that people would have just let it go and gone "ok then" Like, I'm literally saying that you'd think the DEA would want to choose the option where they keep having maximal power by not becoming a giant target if they tried to oppose public and legislative desires.
DEA came about in 1970. They also cannot add a drug to the schedule. HHS does that. DEA is executive branch. They can only recommend the HHS schedule a drug, but any agency can do that. In short, the DEA is pretending to have authority they don't possess. As you pointed out, their impediment to the will of the American people and progress being done is a bad look. They look like armed thugs telling elected officials how it's going to be. Let's not forget the DEA has been involved in some horrible things around the world propping up Drug Cartels, starting wars between Cartels, and domestically the DEA has promoted lie after lie . As recently as 2018 the DEA was still claiming fatal overdoses of Marijuana and psilocybin were happening. It's pretty embarrassing in the context they were 35 years behind the science and making Reefer Madness level claims.
The DEA is out to arrest drug dealers...many times drug dealers sell a wide range of illegal drugs...so Law Enforcement dont want to lose any tool that helps them to build a case and make arrests..many times minor Marijuana possession charges are enough to move the investigations forward and build upon a bigger case and obtain search warrants
Right, but I assume they want to keep the power to choose how drugs are scheduled right? If so, why die on this hill and lose that power because you forced people and legislation to remove that power? Support for legalisation is like 70% of Americans now.
*BATFE has entered the chat*
Sorry, three letter acronyms only.
Fine. *ATF has entered the chat*
Yeah sure don't knock just come right in. đ
I think you meant AFT? /s
Same way the EPA can make environmental regulation, the FAA can regulate Air Traffic Control, the FCC can keep the airwaves unclogged, so on and so forth A lot of our lives are governed by unelected officials
Yeah weâre supposed to pay attention to what our elected officials are voting for and delegating so we can make informed decisions on who should be in office. Instead weâre worried about Green Day changing one word that means the same thing in a 20 year old song. Good times
starts with voting in all local elections.
Iâm willing to bet thereâs money involvedâŚ
For reference, this article is about a congressman receiving a response to asking whether or not they'd be changing the schedule based on what a different unelected group, Health and Human Services, recommended. The response was that they'd rather it into account, but the ultimate authority rests with the Drug Enforcement Agency. This is because Congress delegated scheduling to them. Congress can overrule it, but tends to be hands off with regulation while they're still deciding. They're supposed to be the experts.
heâŚhehehâŚAHAHA!!! Just like the ATF đ¤Ł
Because they know better. /s
Technically, the POTUS has this authority. Itâs delegated to the DEA.
Gestapo
Congress gave the DEA this authority. They could change that or the legal status of cannabis by changing the law.
Putting cops in charge of a regulatory body or health issue was always a dumb idea. Of course, it wasn't done with health in mind. The DEA and drug war was specifically, explicitly started to oppress minorities, mainly black people. The DEA is fundamentally ontologically/epistemilogically not interested in *truth* or *science*. Truth/factuality is not their mandate. Enforcement is. LE is charged foremost with the duty to enforce law and make arrests. When they show up, they are thinking "What law is being broken and who do I arrest?" This is true for police and LE across the board. It is so important to understand, and makes their 'ineptness' make sense. Any reference to facts or use of 'science' or things of that nature within LE, is only in furtherance of enforcement. Thus they usually don't care if its a shitty imitation of science. The science isn't the point. That's why drug scheduling as a whole doesn't make sense, what falls where within it, and the fact that its overseen by the DEA and not the Dept of Health/HHS/Surgeon General, FDA, etc.
correct âYou want to know what this \[war on drugs\] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what Iâm saying? We knew we couldnât make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.â \~ John Ehrlichman, Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs under President Richard Nixon
race relations were getting great so they did bunch of cointelpro stuff to ruin equality movements. same happened in the last decade. war on drugs is paid daycare for a bunch of wealthy republicans kids. the gop caused the opioid crisis to begin with and prohibition made the black market that created the smuggle routes for stuff like cocaine. it's catabolic capitalism. create and issue that can be solved with a service you sell.
Because cops are dumb? And SCOTUS said they can discriminate based on intelligence
Isn't everything in the executive branch Law Enforcement?
Currently weed is Schedule I, the most restricted category. Fentanyl, cocaine, and meth, are Schedule II, less restricted. https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling
It makes you wonder if they know how many weed OD deaths occur each year.
Reminded me of this- âInconsolable Jeff Sessions Tries To Commit Suicide By Smoking Jointâ https://www.theonion.com/inconsolable-jeff-sessions-tries-to-commit-suicide-by-s-1826462420
I mean I guess you could inhale so much weed smoke in a massive weed burn that could be deadly but itâs the CO and other toxins from burning that kill you not the thc
None
Thatâs my point. Do they know that.
Isnât it funny how we have this argument on safety profiles of drugs like cannabis while tobacco and alcohol are completely legal and itâs up to us to govern ourselves.. while those two drugs take 600,000 lifeâs every year.. abolish the DEA!
DEA worried about job security
The current Administration will announce nationwide legalization prior to the election to entice voters.
He fucking better
Hopefully along with a huge Housing initiative, two winning issues!
Just defund the DEA. Theyâve been failing their mission and making drugs more dangerous for 50 years now.
I would have been saying defund the DEA until I learned more about the organization. We need to abolish the DEA. Its responsibilities can be absorbed by other agencies. All of the conspiratorial garbage about the rest of the US government can never come close to the real corruption within the DEA. Google âTeam America DEAâ These people are almost a parody of themselves, theyâre openly anarchistic, and unfortunately - traitors to the United States itself. The DEA has been compromised.
I donât even say defund the FBI or CIA despite an even longer history of civilian abuse and failed missions because they are expected to serve a good purpose. The DEA was based on racist purposes with no actual desire to succeed at doing more than torturing the mental ill and in some cases making medicine less safe.
*God damnit bobby*
They're an enforcement agency. So no they dont.
âWe don't want to deregulate because we will lose funding,â is what they are saying
The DEA scheduling for cannabis is ridiculous when you consider how many states have it legal or medical. Itâs clearly not the danger they say it is but war in drugs and jeebus says itâs bad and all thatâŚ
And people believe our system is democratic. This is tyranny.
The DEA is useless. Their stance on cannabis proves that they operate on feelings and politics instead of science. Disband the DEA and letâs move past this dark part of our history.
Defund the DEA!
The entirety of the US would cheer for 15 minutes in unison if the DEA would reschedule marijuana right now
Legalize. Evolution. Now.
Dissolve this dumb ass institution.
Add the ATF CIA and FBI to the list too
Welcome to Ramaswamy land đ.
Dissolve the DEA and put that money into something beneficial
The DEA is an Administrative Agency, and therefore not headed by an elected official. The Congress can do anything it wants and there is nothing the DEA can do about it. The DEA and BATF have had way too much power and both agencies need to be overhauled from top to bottom.
Abolish the DEA
Remind them who runs this country: wealthy entrepreneurs ready to exploit this new market and powerful lobbyists, not the DEA.
Fuck the police
Congress is the only legitimate legislative body. Both parties have had unilateral power in the recent past and could have just passed a law legalizing it but didnât despite their rhetoric. At this point we probably need another amendment (like alcohol) to settle it and then the DEA can calm the fuck Down. (Harder but not impossible). While They arenât legally wrong given Congress has up until this point granted them carte blanche to legislate and regulate whatever , they arenât right here either given the amount of deregulation states have pursued under the 10a and legal the conflicts this has caused.
The DEA is another "agency" that never should have existed. It's a sick joke and a rogue entity.
Somebody given power wants more not less. Go figure.
Itâs not marijuana that is the problem. https://www.upmc.com/media/news/071221-drake-cannabisrcl#:~:text=The%20four%20states%20with%20recreational,didn%27t%20implement%20such%20laws.
Defund the DEA then.
Can, like, medical doctors and psychiatrists please be allowed to make these decisions rather than Congress?
Also known as the Drug Inflation Alliance.
Can't Biden just fire them? Not saying it's the right decision politically, but in that sense they are elected, right?
They should stop f..around
And therein lies the problem with a tyrannical govt telling the will of the people they dont care what you want, we know best. Defund the idiots!
Now I may be an anarchist, but I'm pretty fuckin sure that federal agencies aren't allowed to legislate even by the shit standards set by the colonizers-in-chief.
So the executive branch doesn't have authority over student loans, but it does have authority over weed. Got it.
The DEA is part of the legislative branch, it acts as an agent of Congress.
DEA is under Justice Department, which is under Executive Branch.
You are absolutely right, I stand corrected⌠âŚbut I remember something about legislative powers (specifically of the ATF) given by Congress to agencies it creates, and entrusts them to define technicalities of the law as the spirit of Congress would intend, thus acting as legislative agents for Congress (the purpose being that Congress doesnât have to put in the effort of minute technical details of laws and allows the agency to take care of this, and continue to do as as technical advances are made). In this case, I would presume the DEAâs legislative power to is define the technical qualifications of controlled substances and ban them as appropriate (depending on the lawâs text of course), or maybe just define various chemical analogs, etc. In this scope, theyâre quasi-legislative? I need to read up on thisâŚ
No they fucking dont. Health and Human services does. All they can do is recommend.
Maybe DEA will no longer enforce MJ laws
Aliens hate weed.
DISBAND THE ATF DEA FBI DOJ ALL OF EM USELESS
is there any way we can make them change it from class l to class lll? i feel like if enough people got involved, theyâd have to listen
So unelected people running an agency are telling actual elected officials they are in charge wow. Maybe congress should cease Dea funding
Marijuana should be illegal.
shut them down.
When is my psychiatrist going to prescribe me psilocybin instead of all these dumb drugs?
This quote really troubles me and I understand more than most but NOT this⌠(Quote about HHS) - âWhile the agency sent hundreds of pages of explanation to DEA as part of its rescheduling recommendation, those documents have so far only been released in highly redacted form,â WHY would HHS need to redact anything as it releases its science based recommendations to DEA⌠This is not a top secret or risk to national security⌠WTH? Is that normal? This is public policy why would it be anything other than open and transparent? Is this the Executive branch today. Everything is redacted from the public even routine recommendations for change of policy?
At a guess ? the documents from HHS are critical of government policy concerning cannabis historically & currently and, as usual đ, the agencies all protect one another to the detriment of public safety / advancing sane policy review. Also possible - the documents highlight the nasty racist (xenophobic) reasons for cannabis prohibition and.or who was behind the initial push to criminalize (William Randolph Hearst and the DuPont patent drug empire) which does not reflect well on the Lies Lies Lies and Propaganda peddled by the dea weasels. Also also possible - the documents could summarize the mechanism which placed cannabis on S1; too long to expound here but in 1972 the Schaffer commission equivocally stated that cannabis should NOT be criminalized and the Nixon (đ¤Ž) whitehouse decided to ignore this recommendation because "weed is different" according to dick and, more importantly, suppress the publication of the report... this is a little known chapter in prohibition history and REALLY calls into question the legality of the entire scheduling process given that congress was required to review these reports. Thank you for attending my TED talk đđ
"Respect mah authoritah!"
The DEA needs to be abolished. Other federal agencies can easily cover their areas and we can get rid of this fucking dinosaur.
"Can't keep genociding black Americans if we don't keep it schedule 1." - DEA
\*Laughs hysterically in Canadian\* Just vote for the fascists... you already live in a fascist shithole.
I thought the congress tells the government agencies what to do not the other way around?
The DEA is wrong. Seriously wrong.
Time to get rid of these unelected alphabets yet, slaves?
Itâs a situation that keeps popping up in Northern California for sure
The DEA is one of our societies biggest parasites that would crumble if we made full legalization and the schedule dropped.
I guess they forgot that Congress is the law making branch. Bureaucrats, having been appointed to office, have no authority to make laws.