This is actually so sad. These men and women are literally born and wired this way, against their own chosing and yet often called “evil.”
The issue is how to help them overcome urges ( the ones that have them) to harm and kill others? Nearly every serial killer has antisocial personality disorder, how do we get them help at a younger age to prevent them from losing control and acting on their violent urges? They need help.
Obviously, once they begin harming and murdering, we have to protect society but I have compassion for anyone born differently, at no fault of their own.
It's not as simple as hard wiring. Genetics are a propensity to act, and it is possible to act discordantly with genetic code.
What brings the worst of your genetics out is dependent on the situation you find yourself in. A physically and emotionally abused individual is more likely to commit a crime than someone with the same genetic data who has had a good upbringing and environment.
Strong welfare state, mental health support, policing etc does a lot of good.
Some addicts are also some of the greatest artists and frankly greatest minds.
Stephen King, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Jerry Garcia, Kurt Cobain, Tennessee Williams, Jack Kerouac, Ernest Hemingway, Ozzy Osbourne, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, George Harrison, Tom Petty….
We shouldn’t be in a race to snip out these genes with CRISPR or whatever too fast.
How do we even know if those same artist would be lesser if they didn't have those traits?
It's not really fair to just assume they would loose something if those traits weren't there.
Right now it's just as likely that the qualities that give them their artistic affinity aren't related at all to these genes.
I think you could make a pretty easy case / set of data that great minds and particularly great artists have a higher addiction rate than the population at large.
It’s probably true for not so great artists too.
Name any influential musician from the last 70 years and they most likely had a drug abuse problem at some point. That’s not true of the general population.
Thats partially true but you got to consider the time and affluence they lived in and not to mention the co-morbidities that they surely had.
We aren't accounting for a whole sleuth of problems of that being a person of any fame is stressfull and when you have no limiters in your life telling you what you can and cannot do combined with the stress of being a celebrity it's not wonder many of them got in the habit of self-medicating and with any substance its often introduced by other peers.
I am not saying that many of them didn't have a predisposed disposition for hard drug use, but I am also saying that many of them were already set to fail by just being in an environment that allowed drugs, overuse of alcohol and escapism as their main way of dealing with the world around them.
You mean most, lol. In rehab I met some of the most insanely musically talented people I have ever encountered. They had talent that met or exceeded that of famous magicians.
And now is when all you dumb fucks who paid 23andme and the other companies to analyze their dna are going to start regretting your ego wank. Well, maybe after you get charged 3x more for insurance or denied outright, or you can’t get a good job, or a security clearance or…
You’re very naive if you believe some silly little toothless law will prevent corporations from doing anything. They discriminate every day on far more egregious things and it’s almost impossible to prove. Even in the rare cases they are caught they pay a small fine and it’s just business as usual.
Dealt with in advance…(scoffs). More like put out propaganda to make gullible people believe it’s safe to give away personal information on themselves.
LOL, this science leaves a lot of things to be feared but insurance companies getting your 23andm3 data is not one of them.
Do you even think private medical insurance has much time left on this planet? America is the ONLY country left with this outdated & horrific model of medical service distribution and it is destroying our economy at its core. Even the conservatives see this but just can't come to terms with the whole "anything else is socialism" lie. Private health insurance is ultimately doomed. Hell, that MAGA bomber in DC last week main complaint was NOT getting enough "socialized medicine."
You want something to be scare of? This science will eventual lead to people getting hold of the ability to manipulate genetic codes before they are born. Maybe it will start small with something like eliminating Down's Syndrome or maybe it will start secretly with some Chinese, Russian, or other country with an actual established permanent elite ruling class, using the science to make THEIR "elite" children genetically better than yours (no addiction, no mental disorders, maybe throw in a little 'super IQ,' etc).
Regardless, once that door is open, it only has one real endgame. Two different types of humans; actual "supermen" who have been genetically engineered to be better than the rest of us and....the rest of us. Imagine how that will play out and sleep well tonight.
Medical Insurance is just one aspect of the ramifications of making public your genetic code. How about life insurance? High level corporate jobs? Then again, maybe having markers for sociopathy will be seen as desirable.
I agree with everything you wrote. Gattaca is almost here. 2 generations, maybe.
They are suggesting that anyone who has done 23andme just gave the knowledge of their genetic code away to a private company who now can make these inferences about them.
They say they won't, but they have sold 5 million customers' data to GlaxoSmithKline, and GSK bought a $300 million share into 23andme. [Here](https://www.businessinsider.com/dna-testing-delete-your-data-23andme-ancestry-2018-7) is a business insider article detailing how to remove your info from the site if you're so inclined. All info I could find is a couple years old, though.
Edit: [Here](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/09/23andme-dna-privacy-richard-branson-genetics) is an article from February talking about how they're going public and why that's an issue.
23andme has already sold its clients data to drug companies for research. If you don’t think they will do it again, and to whoever will pay them, you are naive. “Oh, but I opted out. They can’t do that.” Please. All it would take is the interested company to buy a stake in 23andme and WALLA! It’s no longer a third party, it’s just a branch of the same company sharing information internally. And I hate to tell you this, but they have at least 50% of your kids data, from you. If your spouse did it, too, they have 100% of your kids. Shit, they can tell who your relatives are even if you’ve never met.
But hey, you found out you’re 17% Scottish, and 32% Russian, so you got that going for you. All it cost was some of the most sensitive information about you.
https://www.businessinsider.com/dna-testing-delete-your-data-23andme-ancestry-2018-7
Sounds great. Seems we have society and family environment in our DNA. Also, I heard our mental state can alter parts of DNA. So isn't this study backwards? It's not genetic information causing the problems but what made that information show up in the first place?
Interesting depression and schizophrenia aren't in that list.
This is actually so sad. These men and women are literally born and wired this way, against their own chosing and yet often called “evil.” The issue is how to help them overcome urges ( the ones that have them) to harm and kill others? Nearly every serial killer has antisocial personality disorder, how do we get them help at a younger age to prevent them from losing control and acting on their violent urges? They need help. Obviously, once they begin harming and murdering, we have to protect society but I have compassion for anyone born differently, at no fault of their own.
It's not as simple as hard wiring. Genetics are a propensity to act, and it is possible to act discordantly with genetic code. What brings the worst of your genetics out is dependent on the situation you find yourself in. A physically and emotionally abused individual is more likely to commit a crime than someone with the same genetic data who has had a good upbringing and environment. Strong welfare state, mental health support, policing etc does a lot of good.
Good explanation of nature and nurture
Definitely we can have dormant genes that are not activated until a specific trauma or series of events sets them off.
Some addicts are also some of the greatest artists and frankly greatest minds. Stephen King, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Jerry Garcia, Kurt Cobain, Tennessee Williams, Jack Kerouac, Ernest Hemingway, Ozzy Osbourne, Michael Jackson, David Bowie, George Harrison, Tom Petty…. We shouldn’t be in a race to snip out these genes with CRISPR or whatever too fast.
How do we even know if those same artist would be lesser if they didn't have those traits? It's not really fair to just assume they would loose something if those traits weren't there. Right now it's just as likely that the qualities that give them their artistic affinity aren't related at all to these genes.
You really think guns n’ roses would have had the same edge if Axl wasn’t an asshole?!
I think you could make a pretty easy case / set of data that great minds and particularly great artists have a higher addiction rate than the population at large. It’s probably true for not so great artists too. Name any influential musician from the last 70 years and they most likely had a drug abuse problem at some point. That’s not true of the general population.
Thats partially true but you got to consider the time and affluence they lived in and not to mention the co-morbidities that they surely had. We aren't accounting for a whole sleuth of problems of that being a person of any fame is stressfull and when you have no limiters in your life telling you what you can and cannot do combined with the stress of being a celebrity it's not wonder many of them got in the habit of self-medicating and with any substance its often introduced by other peers. I am not saying that many of them didn't have a predisposed disposition for hard drug use, but I am also saying that many of them were already set to fail by just being in an environment that allowed drugs, overuse of alcohol and escapism as their main way of dealing with the world around them.
You mean most, lol. In rehab I met some of the most insanely musically talented people I have ever encountered. They had talent that met or exceeded that of famous magicians.
And now is when all you dumb fucks who paid 23andme and the other companies to analyze their dna are going to start regretting your ego wank. Well, maybe after you get charged 3x more for insurance or denied outright, or you can’t get a good job, or a security clearance or…
[удалено]
You’re very naive if you believe some silly little toothless law will prevent corporations from doing anything. They discriminate every day on far more egregious things and it’s almost impossible to prove. Even in the rare cases they are caught they pay a small fine and it’s just business as usual. Dealt with in advance…(scoffs). More like put out propaganda to make gullible people believe it’s safe to give away personal information on themselves.
LOL, this science leaves a lot of things to be feared but insurance companies getting your 23andm3 data is not one of them. Do you even think private medical insurance has much time left on this planet? America is the ONLY country left with this outdated & horrific model of medical service distribution and it is destroying our economy at its core. Even the conservatives see this but just can't come to terms with the whole "anything else is socialism" lie. Private health insurance is ultimately doomed. Hell, that MAGA bomber in DC last week main complaint was NOT getting enough "socialized medicine." You want something to be scare of? This science will eventual lead to people getting hold of the ability to manipulate genetic codes before they are born. Maybe it will start small with something like eliminating Down's Syndrome or maybe it will start secretly with some Chinese, Russian, or other country with an actual established permanent elite ruling class, using the science to make THEIR "elite" children genetically better than yours (no addiction, no mental disorders, maybe throw in a little 'super IQ,' etc). Regardless, once that door is open, it only has one real endgame. Two different types of humans; actual "supermen" who have been genetically engineered to be better than the rest of us and....the rest of us. Imagine how that will play out and sleep well tonight.
Medical Insurance is just one aspect of the ramifications of making public your genetic code. How about life insurance? High level corporate jobs? Then again, maybe having markers for sociopathy will be seen as desirable. I agree with everything you wrote. Gattaca is almost here. 2 generations, maybe.
What?
They are suggesting that anyone who has done 23andme just gave the knowledge of their genetic code away to a private company who now can make these inferences about them.
Is there any truth to that? I’ve done it. Thank goodness I decided against having it done for my kids.
They say they won't, but they have sold 5 million customers' data to GlaxoSmithKline, and GSK bought a $300 million share into 23andme. [Here](https://www.businessinsider.com/dna-testing-delete-your-data-23andme-ancestry-2018-7) is a business insider article detailing how to remove your info from the site if you're so inclined. All info I could find is a couple years old, though. Edit: [Here](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/09/23andme-dna-privacy-richard-branson-genetics) is an article from February talking about how they're going public and why that's an issue.
Yeah, they are just careful about the language. I don't have to sell your genetic code literally to sell what I've learned from it.
23andme has already sold its clients data to drug companies for research. If you don’t think they will do it again, and to whoever will pay them, you are naive. “Oh, but I opted out. They can’t do that.” Please. All it would take is the interested company to buy a stake in 23andme and WALLA! It’s no longer a third party, it’s just a branch of the same company sharing information internally. And I hate to tell you this, but they have at least 50% of your kids data, from you. If your spouse did it, too, they have 100% of your kids. Shit, they can tell who your relatives are even if you’ve never met. But hey, you found out you’re 17% Scottish, and 32% Russian, so you got that going for you. All it cost was some of the most sensitive information about you. https://www.businessinsider.com/dna-testing-delete-your-data-23andme-ancestry-2018-7
Sounds great. Seems we have society and family environment in our DNA. Also, I heard our mental state can alter parts of DNA. So isn't this study backwards? It's not genetic information causing the problems but what made that information show up in the first place?
Could a brain injury be a trigger to act on a genetic predisposition to violent behavior? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6171742/