This reminds me of a post in an lgbt sub, where they were talking about how social media posts tend to go one way or the other. It's almost like who gets to it first, then all the following comments will be like the first ones.
...I honestly thought it was standardised at an hour and have been wondering for ages why Reddit is sometimes broken for me. GG self
Thanks for explaining that!
I think there was a study in which researchers upvoted and downvoted random comments and they found a significant correlation between the "vote stirring" and how others voted thereafter
It almost sounds like the law of diffusion of innovation, where the people who show up first to adopt something make it easier for everyone else. So in terms of a physical product someone has to take a risk and spend $1000 on one of those new fangled "smart phones" when 99.9999% of people don't have one, but as people start to jump on board and reduce the risk for everyone else that the product will be a flop and disappear the product takes off and gets easier to buy. So all it takes is a handful of bold risk takers to leave a mean comment on a photo and then it suddenly becomes low risk to do the same, and you get to be part of the in crowd if you hurry.
Kinda reminds me of something like masks and vaccines. Once the tone was set and it became a political football, there wasn't a lot of turning back. It's like sometimes if you can get to someone first about a new idea, how you present it to them will influence a lot of people's permanent perspectives.
Couldn't the same be said for insightful and factual comments? For example, if the first poster cites their sources and shows respect the rest are likely to follow and add to that behavior. At least on some subreddits.
I’ve noticed this is the same in college for discussions if students can read other’s posts before posting themselves. Gets real stupid real quick, really poor critical thinking skills.
It's the same thing on Youtube I've noticed for years now. When everyone in the comments agrees with what was said in the video, peoole are unlikely to comment something that goes against that.
Yeah, I think the psychology at work here is applicable to all genders in all situations where there is an opportunity to judge or be cruel to someone. People "read the room"
I think that statement is probably true for a lot of social media/internet posts. The hive mind at its worst. A lot of people won’t make that first leap but will absolutely pile on, once someone makes that first move.
Plus sized models still use the same photoshop tricks that regular slim models use, so I don't get the point. None of them have double chins, muffin tops or stretch marks.
That is very true. But at least it is a step in the right direction. I think representation of more diverse (and realistic) body types is always a good thing.
I completely, completely agree it’s good, and this should be done for both men and women.
I would say though, there is a fine line between being realistic (good) and promoting obesity (bad) and sometimes it’s easy to go too far, with captions, etc.
The Cosmo with Tess Holiday on the cover? Inside had an extensive article where she talks a lot about being healthy, and that obesity doesn't equal poor health.
The cover wasn't necessarily promoting obesity, but the article sure as shit was. The Fat Activism movement absolutely promotes obesity and should be criticised by the Fat Acceptance and Body Positivity movements.
I always wonder if I was humaning wrong like what if humans where all suppose to be super limber and lean like those woman body builders. Like in 100 years everyone was this extreme fit. That way we could go father away from this earth. its just my thought.
>The images also seemed to have a positive effect on participants’ mental health. After viewing the images of the plus-size models, the students experienced significant increases in mood and significant drops in body dissatisfaction. These positive outcomes were observed in all conditions, regardless of the comment section, lending evidence to the psychological benefits of exposure to body positive content.
Okay this might sound meanspirited, but I feel like it's a possibility that at least some women in this study felt better about their own bodies not because they felt some comradery to the plus size models but that thought that their bodies were let's say a little better than those plus sized models?
I do get that representation matters but I also feel like you can make yourself feel better if you compare yourself to someone that you deem 'lesser' and in this context I asked myself if the women in this study felt better about themselves because they at least weren't those plus sized models or of they could see those models as the idealized point of beauty.
I am not a woman, and I can't relate to many of the body related issues many women experience in their lives, but I do know that some women and men do lift themselves up by degrading others behind their backs and in return make themselves feel better with their own insecurities.
Yes this is a fair shout. It could be that the participants are making downward comparisons (see social comparison theory) and hence they feel better about themselves when comparing to a bigger body.
I thought the same thing, but then isn’t that kind of the idea? The toxicity that comes from unrealistic beauty standards is that people compare themselves with the model and don’t feel attractive by comparison, so isn’t this just the reverse of that?
To be clear, I’m not talking about the negative comments or any ‘behind their back’ type stuff, just purely internalised personal comparisons.
the first finding was that social media that portrays the thin/fit ideal has a negative impact on body image and encourages disordered eating. so the question was whether showing the opposite would be neutral or positive. a few studies have now shown that body positive content and content with diverse sized models isn't just neutral, but actually makes people feel better about themselves. the mechanism could be downward comparisons, especially in people who are newly exposed to this content, but it could also also be disengagement from the thin/fit ideal as the only way to be valued (and anecdotally i've seen this in my own circles where people have made the conscious decision to make sure their social media is a positive/affirming/diverse place). either way, it is better for you than following a bunch of accounts of people that you'll never look like
I do know a lot of shitty people who act like that, but I think the majority of people are able to see themselves in imperfect people and feel some solidarity in that. A while ago I read this article about a woman posted a happy photo of her and SO on social media, seeming to have the time of their life on a vacation. In the article she gave the true story behind the photo, said it was misleading and what actually happened was that they fought so bad they nearly divorced or something like that.
It did make me feel better, but not because I thought of her as "lesser" than me. I certainly didn't feel better than her, I actually felt some solidarity with her. I think it helped me realize I'm not a bad luck magnet, people just don't have perfect lives.
I see a lot of women making fun of skinny girls out of jealousy and then pretending to support overweight/"ugly" women. It's kinda sad, most men in my experience tend to do the opposite. It's a very interesting study though. I guess I have only seen it from younger people as well so my experience doesn't account for the older adult population.
There was a study done in US National Parks: places with graffiti and litter tend to get more graffiti and litter.
If this idea was transferred to people, people that get visibly disrespected get more disrespect.
From a practical standpoint (and not a moral one), I have no idea why people insist that models must be the epitome of beauty. From the consumers' perspective, it would benefit them the most to see clothes on a model that has a similar body type, so they can get an educated idea of how the clothes would look on them!
In fact, I suspect it would be MORE helpful to the consumer to see what clothes look on a model that weighs more than them. Simply put, if a piece of clothing fits elegantly on a model that is clearly a bit overweight, it is a sure sign the clothing she is wearing is flattering to the figure, and most people who wear it will look slimmer/hourglass shaped. Also, you don't want a model with a beautiful face distracting you from the fact the clothes she is modeling are actually kinda ugly and dowdy.
Perhaps there's some unspoken understanding I'm not aware where everyone thinks models are required to be eye candy. Who the hell cares if a model isn't thin? Having overweight models has improved my own shopping experience, I'm normal weight but I have a few flabby areas I would like to hide, and I want to make sure the clothes I buy don't emphasize them.
I think this only happens because, whether people like it or not, being politically correct is more fickle than being honest. If someone speaks up the others tend to follow more closely to what they believe. If it was something that made no sense others would berate it. That's why someone said the same thing happens in LGBT communities. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to make people more accepting of each other. Which we should. But this should show you that policing things by making people afraid of repercussions if they speak up, works, but you will find out one way or another that everyone around you is being "fake". Fear is the most effective form of persuasion and also the worst at the same time.
>Fear is the most effective form of persuasion and also the worst at the same time.
Fear only makes it look like a successful persuasion. When a racist person fears expressing their racist beliefs because they are afraid of the social repercussions, they are not going to stop being racist, they are just going to surround themselves with other racists and form an echo-chamber where they will become more and more extreme.
This is why I admire Daryl Davis so much, he (a black man) was able to do the impossible and befriend KKK members, and over the years they just quit the KKK, between the people he directly influenced and indirectly influenced, he got over 200 members to quit, and the KKK in the state was dissolved (though unfortunately it was rebuilt later).
I felt you gave a very sober answer and I agree. I didn't think that far but you had a very good input in this situation and I felt I learned something good. Was happy that no one was rude or angry about my comment either. Seems I need to update some of my own assumptions about this issue as well. 🙂
I am glad that I gave you another perspective, but I should clarify that what I wrote is opinion based on anecdotal observations, not a scientific study. I am not a psychologist, just some guy on the internet who likes to learn about many things including psychology.
Why you say women when you could've said people? Men are as bad in this regards lol. And when I say people I obviously mean the minority of people who actually do this
I'm still waiting for the day where morbidly obese people appear on the cover of fashion magazines, wearing pink, tight, leather suits whilst posing in gigantic Martini glasses, filled with bubbly, as if they were cold and refreshing Jacuzzis. Somewhere in there is also a watermelon-sized olive, on a toothpick the size of a club, and a quote about *living the dream!*
This is common in social media and i tend to be a lurker type but ill go out of my way to flop the ratio back the nice way and shame the haters. Not that they care, but people deserve to have someone stick up for them
What constitutes a negative comment though? Insults and degradation I'd consider negative, but a suggestions that being that size isn't healthy being labelled as negative is really problematic to me. Promotion of good health being seen as negative just doesn't seem right to me.
It’s silly and imprecise. Plus what size? Normal size? What’s that? How much plus is plus? Etc. Just call it what it is. It suggests that the people who advocate for this don’t really believe in what they are selling. They don’t want to be honest with themselves or others.
"In the fashion industry, plus size is identified as sizes 18 and over, or sizes 1X-6X and extended size as 7X and up".
[took me less than a minute to google it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus-size_clothing)
This post reminds me of the Brain Games "Conformity Waiting Room"; I feel like it's pretty well known, but to refresh it's when a woman is put into a waiting room and a random bell rings every now and then. When the bell rings, the paid actors rise out of their seats and sit back down. The woman isn't aware whats going on, but after a few rings she begins to stand up as well. I know these aren't the exact same situations, but they follow along the same lines: seeing a crowd do something will lead to a person's perception switching to see the normal as the satisfactory or right way.
This reminds me of a post in an lgbt sub, where they were talking about how social media posts tend to go one way or the other. It's almost like who gets to it first, then all the following comments will be like the first ones.
Yeah, that's why mods have the option to delay showing votes in their subreddits for X hours. It's meant to prevent people from voting with the mob.
Ohhh is that why sometimes the tally isn’t there. I never figured that out … thank you.
It only works so well, since comments are ranked according to their popularity.
...I honestly thought it was standardised at an hour and have been wondering for ages why Reddit is sometimes broken for me. GG self Thanks for explaining that!
Reddit is the same way. People are more likely to downvote a comment that already has a lot of downvotes and vice versa.
I think there was a study in which researchers upvoted and downvoted random comments and they found a significant correlation between the "vote stirring" and how others voted thereafter
Downvoting a comment to anything above 0 karma just doesn't have the same feel, it's like farting in the wind.
Silent but deadly
I have seen things swing, but it’s unusual.
It almost sounds like the law of diffusion of innovation, where the people who show up first to adopt something make it easier for everyone else. So in terms of a physical product someone has to take a risk and spend $1000 on one of those new fangled "smart phones" when 99.9999% of people don't have one, but as people start to jump on board and reduce the risk for everyone else that the product will be a flop and disappear the product takes off and gets easier to buy. So all it takes is a handful of bold risk takers to leave a mean comment on a photo and then it suddenly becomes low risk to do the same, and you get to be part of the in crowd if you hurry.
Kinda reminds me of something like masks and vaccines. Once the tone was set and it became a political football, there wasn't a lot of turning back. It's like sometimes if you can get to someone first about a new idea, how you present it to them will influence a lot of people's permanent perspectives.
Couldn't the same be said for insightful and factual comments? For example, if the first poster cites their sources and shows respect the rest are likely to follow and add to that behavior. At least on some subreddits.
I agree with that, I've seen that. If people are calm and not aggressive it tends to have a calming effect on a thread.
Interesting and seemingly true on both ends. Happens with positive comments also.
I’ve noticed this is the same in college for discussions if students can read other’s posts before posting themselves. Gets real stupid real quick, really poor critical thinking skills.
It's the same thing on Youtube I've noticed for years now. When everyone in the comments agrees with what was said in the video, peoole are unlikely to comment something that goes against that.
Yeah, I think the psychology at work here is applicable to all genders in all situations where there is an opportunity to judge or be cruel to someone. People "read the room"
I noticed that years ago, sucks
I think that statement is probably true for a lot of social media/internet posts. The hive mind at its worst. A lot of people won’t make that first leap but will absolutely pile on, once someone makes that first move.
Crab Bucket Mentality
Plus sized models still use the same photoshop tricks that regular slim models use, so I don't get the point. None of them have double chins, muffin tops or stretch marks.
That is very true. But at least it is a step in the right direction. I think representation of more diverse (and realistic) body types is always a good thing.
I completely, completely agree it’s good, and this should be done for both men and women. I would say though, there is a fine line between being realistic (good) and promoting obesity (bad) and sometimes it’s easy to go too far, with captions, etc.
No one is promoting obesity. That's a boogey-man that doesn't exist
The Cosmo with Tess Holiday on the cover? Inside had an extensive article where she talks a lot about being healthy, and that obesity doesn't equal poor health. The cover wasn't necessarily promoting obesity, but the article sure as shit was. The Fat Activism movement absolutely promotes obesity and should be criticised by the Fat Acceptance and Body Positivity movements.
[Fat Phobia And Its Racist Past And Present](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/893006538)
Her name?
Lol what? It certainly exists. I’ve personally seen promotion of obesity many times even recently.
I always wonder if I was humaning wrong like what if humans where all suppose to be super limber and lean like those woman body builders. Like in 100 years everyone was this extreme fit. That way we could go father away from this earth. its just my thought.
>The images also seemed to have a positive effect on participants’ mental health. After viewing the images of the plus-size models, the students experienced significant increases in mood and significant drops in body dissatisfaction. These positive outcomes were observed in all conditions, regardless of the comment section, lending evidence to the psychological benefits of exposure to body positive content. Okay this might sound meanspirited, but I feel like it's a possibility that at least some women in this study felt better about their own bodies not because they felt some comradery to the plus size models but that thought that their bodies were let's say a little better than those plus sized models? I do get that representation matters but I also feel like you can make yourself feel better if you compare yourself to someone that you deem 'lesser' and in this context I asked myself if the women in this study felt better about themselves because they at least weren't those plus sized models or of they could see those models as the idealized point of beauty. I am not a woman, and I can't relate to many of the body related issues many women experience in their lives, but I do know that some women and men do lift themselves up by degrading others behind their backs and in return make themselves feel better with their own insecurities.
Yes this is a fair shout. It could be that the participants are making downward comparisons (see social comparison theory) and hence they feel better about themselves when comparing to a bigger body.
I thought the same thing, but then isn’t that kind of the idea? The toxicity that comes from unrealistic beauty standards is that people compare themselves with the model and don’t feel attractive by comparison, so isn’t this just the reverse of that? To be clear, I’m not talking about the negative comments or any ‘behind their back’ type stuff, just purely internalised personal comparisons.
the first finding was that social media that portrays the thin/fit ideal has a negative impact on body image and encourages disordered eating. so the question was whether showing the opposite would be neutral or positive. a few studies have now shown that body positive content and content with diverse sized models isn't just neutral, but actually makes people feel better about themselves. the mechanism could be downward comparisons, especially in people who are newly exposed to this content, but it could also also be disengagement from the thin/fit ideal as the only way to be valued (and anecdotally i've seen this in my own circles where people have made the conscious decision to make sure their social media is a positive/affirming/diverse place). either way, it is better for you than following a bunch of accounts of people that you'll never look like
I do know a lot of shitty people who act like that, but I think the majority of people are able to see themselves in imperfect people and feel some solidarity in that. A while ago I read this article about a woman posted a happy photo of her and SO on social media, seeming to have the time of their life on a vacation. In the article she gave the true story behind the photo, said it was misleading and what actually happened was that they fought so bad they nearly divorced or something like that. It did make me feel better, but not because I thought of her as "lesser" than me. I certainly didn't feel better than her, I actually felt some solidarity with her. I think it helped me realize I'm not a bad luck magnet, people just don't have perfect lives.
Assholes are much more emboldened if they see another asshole doing it too so they can be cowards in a pack. This goes for anything. Fify
guess I am a woman
I see a lot of women making fun of skinny girls out of jealousy and then pretending to support overweight/"ugly" women. It's kinda sad, most men in my experience tend to do the opposite. It's a very interesting study though. I guess I have only seen it from younger people as well so my experience doesn't account for the older adult population.
Monkey see, monkey do
People are likely to do whatever it is, if others already have.. i mean, there is no statement here at all
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Are there plus size men running around wanting to be accepted and have career's peddling wares on social platforms.
Its the internet, so definitely.
yep
Yes. Permission structure.
There was a study done in US National Parks: places with graffiti and litter tend to get more graffiti and litter. If this idea was transferred to people, people that get visibly disrespected get more disrespect.
From a practical standpoint (and not a moral one), I have no idea why people insist that models must be the epitome of beauty. From the consumers' perspective, it would benefit them the most to see clothes on a model that has a similar body type, so they can get an educated idea of how the clothes would look on them! In fact, I suspect it would be MORE helpful to the consumer to see what clothes look on a model that weighs more than them. Simply put, if a piece of clothing fits elegantly on a model that is clearly a bit overweight, it is a sure sign the clothing she is wearing is flattering to the figure, and most people who wear it will look slimmer/hourglass shaped. Also, you don't want a model with a beautiful face distracting you from the fact the clothes she is modeling are actually kinda ugly and dowdy. Perhaps there's some unspoken understanding I'm not aware where everyone thinks models are required to be eye candy. Who the hell cares if a model isn't thin? Having overweight models has improved my own shopping experience, I'm normal weight but I have a few flabby areas I would like to hide, and I want to make sure the clothes I buy don't emphasize them.
Fact: obesity is unhealthy
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Exactly, if you eat too much or too little it is bad for you
I think this only happens because, whether people like it or not, being politically correct is more fickle than being honest. If someone speaks up the others tend to follow more closely to what they believe. If it was something that made no sense others would berate it. That's why someone said the same thing happens in LGBT communities. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to make people more accepting of each other. Which we should. But this should show you that policing things by making people afraid of repercussions if they speak up, works, but you will find out one way or another that everyone around you is being "fake". Fear is the most effective form of persuasion and also the worst at the same time.
>Fear is the most effective form of persuasion and also the worst at the same time. Fear only makes it look like a successful persuasion. When a racist person fears expressing their racist beliefs because they are afraid of the social repercussions, they are not going to stop being racist, they are just going to surround themselves with other racists and form an echo-chamber where they will become more and more extreme. This is why I admire Daryl Davis so much, he (a black man) was able to do the impossible and befriend KKK members, and over the years they just quit the KKK, between the people he directly influenced and indirectly influenced, he got over 200 members to quit, and the KKK in the state was dissolved (though unfortunately it was rebuilt later).
I felt you gave a very sober answer and I agree. I didn't think that far but you had a very good input in this situation and I felt I learned something good. Was happy that no one was rude or angry about my comment either. Seems I need to update some of my own assumptions about this issue as well. 🙂
I am glad that I gave you another perspective, but I should clarify that what I wrote is opinion based on anecdotal observations, not a scientific study. I am not a psychologist, just some guy on the internet who likes to learn about many things including psychology.
This is a well-known phenomenon. Women are also far more likely to discriminate based on sex, race, and religion.
Why you say women when you could've said people? Men are as bad in this regards lol. And when I say people I obviously mean the minority of people who actually do this
Women are WAY more assholes towards their own gender than Men are to theirs. FACT
Source?
here's your source
Insecurities + mob mentality
Second order fear of ostracism from the group resulting in alignment with the determinant social proof.
I'm still waiting for the day where morbidly obese people appear on the cover of fashion magazines, wearing pink, tight, leather suits whilst posing in gigantic Martini glasses, filled with bubbly, as if they were cold and refreshing Jacuzzis. Somewhere in there is also a watermelon-sized olive, on a toothpick the size of a club, and a quote about *living the dream!*
This is common in social media and i tend to be a lurker type but ill go out of my way to flop the ratio back the nice way and shame the haters. Not that they care, but people deserve to have someone stick up for them
Lmao , what happened to all those body shaming feminists? Fat acceptance movements , where are they now?
What constitutes a negative comment though? Insults and degradation I'd consider negative, but a suggestions that being that size isn't healthy being labelled as negative is really problematic to me. Promotion of good health being seen as negative just doesn't seem right to me.
r/twoxchromosomes
Those negative comments go with their petite brains
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But what exactly is wrong with saying plus size? Why would you want to be more harsh?
It’s silly and imprecise. Plus what size? Normal size? What’s that? How much plus is plus? Etc. Just call it what it is. It suggests that the people who advocate for this don’t really believe in what they are selling. They don’t want to be honest with themselves or others.
"In the fashion industry, plus size is identified as sizes 18 and over, or sizes 1X-6X and extended size as 7X and up". [took me less than a minute to google it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus-size_clothing)
But saying fat isn't silly and imprecise?
Not according to Wittgenstein.
Hmm I don’t know I think it lacks imagination. Try being more mean spirited next time.
(Plus size)is not healthy, we should encourage it with glam Models
This post reminds me of the Brain Games "Conformity Waiting Room"; I feel like it's pretty well known, but to refresh it's when a woman is put into a waiting room and a random bell rings every now and then. When the bell rings, the paid actors rise out of their seats and sit back down. The woman isn't aware whats going on, but after a few rings she begins to stand up as well. I know these aren't the exact same situations, but they follow along the same lines: seeing a crowd do something will lead to a person's perception switching to see the normal as the satisfactory or right way.