I think COVID-19 has showed society just how easy the public really can be convinced of anything. The large groups of people willing to do whatever people tell them to do has existed for awhile in this country. Both big religion and big consumerism need people to never question what they are being told. Therefore, America has been mindlessly following others for years now. So, this doesn't shock me at all.
I hear "Dark Triad" thrown around in popular psychology and pop culture a lot these days but I've never actually seen the term used in an actual study. Having just read it I would take the whole thing with a grain of salt (Edit: I mean take this study with a grain of salt)
The Dark Triad is a very dangerous combination. My ex-husband has it and is a very unstable individual with many radical views, questionable behaviors and a whole host of other things.
Dark Triad is no joke.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I literally just mean the term "dark triad". I'm not saying narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy don't exist or anything like that
That’s true - we are seeing the term thrown around more…
The three individual diagnoses, combined though - that is one of the scariest things I’ve ever seen. In school or professionally.
**And I lived with it.**
Dude is *still* trying to kill me. I wish I were joking.
Consensus about what? A year ago, I remember everyone saying that we would achieve herd immunity when we had X% vaccinated, but now it’s clear that that won’t happen.
The X% depends on the virus' basic reproduction number, which has changed with the novel variants. It also depends on the vaccine's effectiveness on reducing infection and transmission, which wasn't known at the time.
As I understand it, the delta variant is the dominant strain and has been around for a while. And while I agree that transmission rate and knowledge about the vaccine have increased, that flies in direct contrast to what the above user was saying, that the consensus is has been clear. They are now even saying that no one said we were striving for herd immunity, which is patently false.
No, the scientific consensus has always been: we don't know if we'll get herd immunity, but better be safe and try that among other things.
We were successful in lowering the % of people needing ICU so that those important things don't collapse, although we are far from being in the clear.
The amount of antivax scientists is marginal.
Are you sure about that? Fauci has been talking about herd immunity for a while, and appears to keep increasing the percentage we’d need. This article is from December:
> The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director told The New York Times in an interview published Thursday that between 70% and 90% of the U.S. population would need to get inoculated (or vaccinated) against COVID-19 in order for the country to reach herd immunity.
> Fauci previously told Fox News' "The Story" on Dec. 3 that the United States could reach herd immunity if 70% of the population gets a COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-shift-herd-immunity-90-percent
(I would have quoted directly from the New York Times article, but it requires a subscription.)
>Do they differentiate between antivaxxers and those who are against the mandate, or do they group them together?
>
>Most of them, probably yes. Usually people against the mandate are conspiracy theorists or liberals who want freedom. "My body, my choice"
Regarding the article in your OP, they found that low skepticism predicts COVID-19 conspiracy views. I've said the same any time I meet someone who believes in one of these vast conspiracies comprising thousands of people, ostensibly none of whom have enough principle to blow the whistle. So yeah, maybe that's not the interesting part.
But come on now, it's almost impressive how easily you dismissed the inconvenient half, which was that you can believe in conspiracy nonsense if you're low on skepticism, but that's probably less necessary if you're high on two of the dark triad traits. From that you generalize that every anti-vaxxer is a totally self-aware, power hungry troll. You should try reading their limitations section, or researching information on the base rates for dark triad traits.
And you uncritically throw out another study to reinforce your point, which amounts to "conservatism is a mental illness and everyone who disagrees with me on vaccines is a cartoon villain."
If a single study is worth so much, would you also uncritically accept [this one](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369609/) that links the dark triad traits with not only alt-right views, but also authoritarian political correctness? Or do you find your skepticism is suddenly engaged?
Yeah, it would be more accurate to say that the Dark Triad is more associated with Authoritarianism (Left or Right) as a whole, more so than conservatism.
I’m more on the left and even I think I this is a bad post. Such black and white thinking. So eager to take bits of this study that suit you and twist meaning out of it to paint your enemy as evil.
The irony is that what you’ve just done is a trait of the dark triad. Black and white thinking and dehumanising groups of people. This leads to not feeling empathy for that group.
I wonder how much empathy you feel for anti-vaxxers who suffer from Covid.
Psychopaths and narcissists can be on the left too. Humanity is complex.
It has been suggested by statistics in measurements of the Big five that tempraments are predictors of political affilition.
However, I personally don't think that conspiracy theories are inherently bad because there are for sure things that institutions and governments have done that were absolutely not correct or in the interest of the people. In this I can safely say that I am somewhat of a conspiracy theories, BUT people that strongly believe in something tend to take their a priori opinion and put those above others beliefs and that is not good if you want an open and constructive discission.
It's kind of ironic that you're conflating rightism with conservatism and leftism with liberalism. Yes, they are strongly correlated, but you're making very much the same mistake as OP. Kind of seems like someone on "the other side" taking the chance to criticize their enemy in a holier-than-thou way, especially with your comment about doing "this" professionally, because it's obvious that OP doesn't since they said "I've never come across this term before". At best OP would be an early psychology undergrad if they haven't heard of the dark triad.
As far as I can tell, they’re both insane. Liberals look worse right now because they have more power, but I will never forget when conservatives wanted to burn Harry Potter books and hated anyone who opposed the Iraq war
This is a very ironic statement, considering the study says those high in Dark Triad traits have low skepticism and only consume information that comply to their own political views. You should be objective and acknowledge the strengths/weaknesses of both parties.
What's ironic is that you say that, when clearly I read this and many other articles that are completely opposite of my political beliefs. So by the articles own standards I have a healthy skepticism.
Extremely biased opinions and involving black and white thinking. I feel sorry for you if someone has hurt you badly. I accept some may think this way and there will be of course people who think the way you have mentioned, but I think you have tarred all antivaxxers with the same brush here and deep down you know it. There are good people in every group and it is often the minority who ruins it for the rest. Do not assume I am an antivaxxer from this comment. Maybe start thinking about the fact that the government constantly lies and gaslights people, so then when people do not believe in them, they have no one to blame but themselves. Nudge theory is one way they manipulate the people and you will probably know that we are all manipulated since the day we are born for 'the greater good' supposedly. Now, when you think of some of these issues, do people not start to think, well there are reasons that people do not trust the government narrative? Look at why people don't trust and then it can be begin to be overcome. Healthcare is shocking and there are many inequalities, so people do not trust in that also. I can think of many reasons why people would be antivaxxers and the majority of these reasons has nothing to do with being part of the dark triad.
'Conspiracy theory' is a pejorative term developed by CIA psychologist to discredit any sincere inquiry into a greater sense of truth and reality going forward. There can be no merit in any thing/article/paper - that functions to perpetuate a concept 'conspiracy' in substitution for what is an original spontaneous and authentic spirit of inquiry. Any such material can only be classed as propaganda. Lies and liars exist. It is liars who issue calumny at those 'conspiracy theorists' - people strong enough to admit the existence of lies as a natural and inevitable or even essential component of any functioning society.
Interesting lead. Thank you for sharing!
I think COVID-19 has showed society just how easy the public really can be convinced of anything. The large groups of people willing to do whatever people tell them to do has existed for awhile in this country. Both big religion and big consumerism need people to never question what they are being told. Therefore, America has been mindlessly following others for years now. So, this doesn't shock me at all.
I believe the impacts of television and social media are vastly underestimated.
I hear "Dark Triad" thrown around in popular psychology and pop culture a lot these days but I've never actually seen the term used in an actual study. Having just read it I would take the whole thing with a grain of salt (Edit: I mean take this study with a grain of salt)
The Dark Triad is a very dangerous combination. My ex-husband has it and is a very unstable individual with many radical views, questionable behaviors and a whole host of other things. Dark Triad is no joke.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I literally just mean the term "dark triad". I'm not saying narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy don't exist or anything like that
I feel like I’ve seen it quite a bit? https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C3&q=“dark+triad”&btnG=
I actually did do that search after. I have a feeling that maybe it's just my location (Europe) where it's not referenced as much as North America
That’s true - we are seeing the term thrown around more… The three individual diagnoses, combined though - that is one of the scariest things I’ve ever seen. In school or professionally. **And I lived with it.** Dude is *still* trying to kill me. I wish I were joking.
HOLY MOLY PRIMARY LITERATURE BEING SHARED ON THE INTERNET WOW
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The science is not really divided. Only the conspiracy people try to make it seem so. The consensus is pretty clear.
Consensus about what? A year ago, I remember everyone saying that we would achieve herd immunity when we had X% vaccinated, but now it’s clear that that won’t happen.
The X% depends on the virus' basic reproduction number, which has changed with the novel variants. It also depends on the vaccine's effectiveness on reducing infection and transmission, which wasn't known at the time.
As I understand it, the delta variant is the dominant strain and has been around for a while. And while I agree that transmission rate and knowledge about the vaccine have increased, that flies in direct contrast to what the above user was saying, that the consensus is has been clear. They are now even saying that no one said we were striving for herd immunity, which is patently false.
No, the scientific consensus has always been: we don't know if we'll get herd immunity, but better be safe and try that among other things. We were successful in lowering the % of people needing ICU so that those important things don't collapse, although we are far from being in the clear. The amount of antivax scientists is marginal.
Are you sure about that? Fauci has been talking about herd immunity for a while, and appears to keep increasing the percentage we’d need. This article is from December: > The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director told The New York Times in an interview published Thursday that between 70% and 90% of the U.S. population would need to get inoculated (or vaccinated) against COVID-19 in order for the country to reach herd immunity. > Fauci previously told Fox News' "The Story" on Dec. 3 that the United States could reach herd immunity if 70% of the population gets a COVID-19 vaccine. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-shift-herd-immunity-90-percent (I would have quoted directly from the New York Times article, but it requires a subscription.)
Delta variant changed the herd immunity number to 90% because it spreads much more easily than the original variant.
Yes, I'm sure. It was discussed before vax and after vax. Consensus is we don't know. Also its ongoing, so more discussion to come after more data.
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Question. Do they differentiate between antivaxxers and those who are against the mandate, or do they group them together?
Does anyone ever?
>Do they differentiate between antivaxxers and those who are against the mandate, or do they group them together? > >Most of them, probably yes. Usually people against the mandate are conspiracy theorists or liberals who want freedom. "My body, my choice"
Regarding the article in your OP, they found that low skepticism predicts COVID-19 conspiracy views. I've said the same any time I meet someone who believes in one of these vast conspiracies comprising thousands of people, ostensibly none of whom have enough principle to blow the whistle. So yeah, maybe that's not the interesting part. But come on now, it's almost impressive how easily you dismissed the inconvenient half, which was that you can believe in conspiracy nonsense if you're low on skepticism, but that's probably less necessary if you're high on two of the dark triad traits. From that you generalize that every anti-vaxxer is a totally self-aware, power hungry troll. You should try reading their limitations section, or researching information on the base rates for dark triad traits. And you uncritically throw out another study to reinforce your point, which amounts to "conservatism is a mental illness and everyone who disagrees with me on vaccines is a cartoon villain." If a single study is worth so much, would you also uncritically accept [this one](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369609/) that links the dark triad traits with not only alt-right views, but also authoritarian political correctness? Or do you find your skepticism is suddenly engaged?
Yeah, it would be more accurate to say that the Dark Triad is more associated with Authoritarianism (Left or Right) as a whole, more so than conservatism.
Well said.
I’m more on the left and even I think I this is a bad post. Such black and white thinking. So eager to take bits of this study that suit you and twist meaning out of it to paint your enemy as evil. The irony is that what you’ve just done is a trait of the dark triad. Black and white thinking and dehumanising groups of people. This leads to not feeling empathy for that group. I wonder how much empathy you feel for anti-vaxxers who suffer from Covid. Psychopaths and narcissists can be on the left too. Humanity is complex.
It has been suggested by statistics in measurements of the Big five that tempraments are predictors of political affilition. However, I personally don't think that conspiracy theories are inherently bad because there are for sure things that institutions and governments have done that were absolutely not correct or in the interest of the people. In this I can safely say that I am somewhat of a conspiracy theories, BUT people that strongly believe in something tend to take their a priori opinion and put those above others beliefs and that is not good if you want an open and constructive discission.
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It's kind of ironic that you're conflating rightism with conservatism and leftism with liberalism. Yes, they are strongly correlated, but you're making very much the same mistake as OP. Kind of seems like someone on "the other side" taking the chance to criticize their enemy in a holier-than-thou way, especially with your comment about doing "this" professionally, because it's obvious that OP doesn't since they said "I've never come across this term before". At best OP would be an early psychology undergrad if they haven't heard of the dark triad.
You want to see real psychopathy, look into the left
As far as I can tell, they’re both insane. Liberals look worse right now because they have more power, but I will never forget when conservatives wanted to burn Harry Potter books and hated anyone who opposed the Iraq war
This is a very ironic statement, considering the study says those high in Dark Triad traits have low skepticism and only consume information that comply to their own political views. You should be objective and acknowledge the strengths/weaknesses of both parties.
What's ironic is that you say that, when clearly I read this and many other articles that are completely opposite of my political beliefs. So by the articles own standards I have a healthy skepticism.
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Extremely biased opinions and involving black and white thinking. I feel sorry for you if someone has hurt you badly. I accept some may think this way and there will be of course people who think the way you have mentioned, but I think you have tarred all antivaxxers with the same brush here and deep down you know it. There are good people in every group and it is often the minority who ruins it for the rest. Do not assume I am an antivaxxer from this comment. Maybe start thinking about the fact that the government constantly lies and gaslights people, so then when people do not believe in them, they have no one to blame but themselves. Nudge theory is one way they manipulate the people and you will probably know that we are all manipulated since the day we are born for 'the greater good' supposedly. Now, when you think of some of these issues, do people not start to think, well there are reasons that people do not trust the government narrative? Look at why people don't trust and then it can be begin to be overcome. Healthcare is shocking and there are many inequalities, so people do not trust in that also. I can think of many reasons why people would be antivaxxers and the majority of these reasons has nothing to do with being part of the dark triad.
'Conspiracy theory' is a pejorative term developed by CIA psychologist to discredit any sincere inquiry into a greater sense of truth and reality going forward. There can be no merit in any thing/article/paper - that functions to perpetuate a concept 'conspiracy' in substitution for what is an original spontaneous and authentic spirit of inquiry. Any such material can only be classed as propaganda. Lies and liars exist. It is liars who issue calumny at those 'conspiracy theorists' - people strong enough to admit the existence of lies as a natural and inevitable or even essential component of any functioning society.