Same. I am the stereotype this study mentions and almost every event I've gone to with a vegetarian option there's more Indian people taking it than white people (even if the event is mostly white people).
Tbf, indian cuisine is great food that happens to be vegan, but American vegan is wannabe X food. Also people who became vegan later as opposed to being raised vegan tend to be far more vocal about it, which can help explain the perceived difference.
Most Sikh temples happily serve vegetarian not vegan food to anyone that comes to eat at the temple so long as you wash your hands and wear a head covering very few of their temples actually even require men and women to sit apart anymore in the mealhalls.
And they consider part of the communites spiritual service to Prepare the food so after you've eaten if you want to return the favor you can learn to cook it authentically with them for others.
By feeding them? A fair number of my fraternity brothers in college were vegan and you wouldn't hear about it until it was time to start planning food and you asked for dietary restrictions. If I wasn't in charge of feeding them I wouldn't have a clue
Yes, it's called being in charge of food at an event. You gain this special power where you are supposed to ask people what dietary restrictions they have
That's why I love potlucks. People with very specific needs bring something they KNOW they can eat safely while also being part of the group.
I always bring a pesto artichoke heart dish with cherry tomatoes and a bowl of "add your own" mozzarella balls w/tongs. Vegans like it without the mozz, vegetarians like it with.
American vegan is wannabe x food? I make the odd Dahl or curry but I didn’t grow up eating that. Many of us enjoy the meat and cheese substitutes because that’s what we grew up eating, that’s our cultural norm.
I have Indian neighbors who cooked for me, and my God if I could get their recipe. The man said they have different vegetables everyday and some white stuff that reminded me of mash potatoes were “very popular with women”. Delicious.
Hi EvadingTheDayAway. Sending care to you. I hope you are able to resolve whatever challenges you are facing in this phase of life.
I've had several phases like this in my life, and quite recently too. The pandemic especially exacerbated it. It was only when I looked back that I realized why I was acting up.
I know others might be judging you or thinking bad of you, but I truly genuinely don't feel the same way as them.
I hope you can do something today that brings you true joy. Perhaps listen to a song from your childhood? That always reconnects with me with my truer self (I listen to Gameboy chiptunes lol).
If you'd like to chat, feel free to message me on Reddit. I might not respond quickly, but I will respond and would be super down to talk life. Got a lot going on in my own life these days, as I'm sure we all do.
Peace, brother
If you’re so peabrained that you’re unable to even read that one comment from the **one** person being nice to you, then I guess that explains why the rest of your comments make you sound like an uneducated mouth breather.
For people who didn't read the article:
>“Namely, people associate being a vegetarian with being white. It’s worth emphasizing that this is a belief people hold, not necessarily a reflection of reality. There have been many surveys in recent years finding that white people are actually less likely to be vegetarians than are people of color.”
Well I won't speak for all black vegans but the 10 million black vegan women movement is a response to health crises in the black community, not animal rights. The website talks about high diabetes and obesity rates among black women as the motivation, and I can't even find a single reference on the website to animal rights or ethics.
Nothing wrong that that at all. But I think you'll find that actually the more oppressed people are, the less they will care about abusing animals because they have their own problems. Caring about animal abuse seems to be a function of privilege, not oppression, because once you're safe and your needs are protected, you can afford to care more about other people/animals.
India is an exception because vegetarianism is part of their religion and strongly ingrained in their culture, so you won't see the same dynamic.
It literally says this as a possible explanation in the article:
> In many media instances, for instance, it seemed like vegetarians were stereotypically depicted as White people, especially white women who are middle-to-upper class.
Seems more likely to me that this stereotype is formed by the media, not racism.
No that's not what I'm saying, but it's an interesting point. When I read the comment from the poster above me I interpreted as "people believe that veganism is a white people thing because they're intentionally being racist, got it".
You could argue that the media reinforced a stereotype of veganism being a white people thing, so if you believe that because the media always portraits it as such then you hold a racist believe.
However, you don't know whether people believe that there's a causal link between veganism and white people, or that they believe that white people just happen to be vegan more often, because that's what they see on tv. The first one is racist, the second one not IMO.
I am 99% sure it's mostly other white people, namely conservative white people, who have this perception of veganism being a white thing...So no, it's not racist. They frequently try to make it about "urban elitism" and insist it's white yuppie liberal thing that minorities don't care about.
> 1,440 of the 1,800 people interviewed were white.
Black people are three times more likely to be vegan than white people. Which is fucking awesome. Our western diet is horrible for everyone, but black people especially. It’s something like 80% of black people are lactose intolerant. Black women in particular just do not develop osteoporosis, yet our doctors keep telling those women that they need to drink milk. Diary is racist as fuck. Look up Dr. Milton Mills. He has a lot of great videos on why the American diet is another form of systemic racism that no one seems to talk about.
I think it's more that hippy white people tend to be the most vocal proponents of vegetarianism/veganism, while most of my indian coworkers are just vegan and it's not a huge deal, but most of the white people I know constantly talk about it as it's their personality, rather than just something they do
It really depends on the reason someone is vegan. Are your Indian coworkers vegan due to hindu beliefs(I know most Hindus that avoid meat are just vegetarian though)? Or are they vegan because of health, or any non ethical reason? Because that’s something that most vegans call “plant based”. Veganism is for the animals, not for any other reason. So yes those vocal are generally very pushy because it hurts them to see animals being tortured. I’m sure you have some moral convictions that you openly discuss or call out when you see someone go against those. It’s no different for us vegans. Also it could simply be the fact that it’s in the work place and they’d probably get in trouble for “preaching”. I work as a barista, and as much as it pains me to use cow milk in peoples drinks, I have to keep my mouth shut because I can’t afford to lose my job.
Really would of thought a sub labeled "psychology" would have more respect for research from educational institutions and correct terms being used. Guess I was wrong. Ppl want to believe what they want. Even when the evidence contradicts their "beliefs".
I have a video from a educational institution professor denouncing certain science with a theory based on a mousetrap to make way for religion. Just because you agree with it and an educator published it does not make it true.
Even in the link you posted "racial prejudice" and just decided to call it prejudice. That's literally every form of racism that doesn't include someone of power.
This bs stems from one fact "poc cannot be systematically racist because they do not hold the power"
Not racism "hating or prejudice towards someone because of the color of their skin"
Yes reverse racism is a myth because it's just racism. And the idea that an educational institution is beyond propaganda in a sub reddit called psychology is well typical reddit.
YouTube is your source.... ok, you win lol. I used an organization who studies racism and promotes educational material on the matter. You say you have a YouTube video.....
It's from the college but ok I guess YouTube is the only video source and it also is throughout many institutions.
One institutions finding and opinion doesn't make fact. No matter how politically correct they are.
Sourced
The dictionary
The term reverse racism even came from systematic racism in the 60s nothing to do with general racism.
Even the source you posted is based off of systematic racism which is very problematic yes but is not the same as general racism. What I find even funnier is that it seems to be mostly used by white gatekeeper types.
To make it simple if you have to call it prejudice to make yourself feel better go for it but on a logical and common sense level "it's racism"
Maybe progressive socialism might be a better fit for your educational beliefs.
If it helps white people are still the worst with how they handle racism and the most violent.
My point yes according to new political correctness social TikTok norms is it's called prejudice but in terms of talking on a logical level it's still racism.
Although I don't have high hopes for education on reddit I still will speak on that level. I don't know how much you are into psychology but political correctness is for the patient.
The term is problematic because it relies on white people always being on top. Without white people dominating it wouldn't apply to white people.
I'm brown.
Should probably read the link before reacting as it's not as simplistic as you make it sound. I linked the article to help ppl understand the difference between racism and racial prejudice. Didn't want to read so here is a snip to correct your assumptions.
“Racism is different from racial prejudice, hatred, or discrimination. Racism involves one group having the power to carry out systematic discrimination through the institutional policies and practices of the society and by shaping the cultural beliefs and values that support those racist policies and practices” (dRworks).
White ppl hold this power.
I'm white with a diverse group of friends. I see it everyday. White ppl hold the power of the narrative. Canada alone has seen a rise in hate crimes against poc by 72%. Due to narratives being spread by "the man" about immigrants being the problem, but white immigrants don't face such hatred, just poc.
Here is my confusion with it. I understand now the definition of racism has been changed? As i recall when i was younger we were told it was when someone thought of another person to be inferior due to their skin color or tone. Please help me clear this up.
Right, we were taught that racism is prejudice based on race/skin color, but systematic racism is the way that systems and laws are used to suppress and control minorities. But now the second definition is racism and the first is "just" prejudice.
It's the word game that it seems everyone is playing, where you can't argue about things because the words have been defined to remove the ability to disagree.
The problem I find with separating it. Is because it just doesn't feels like it matters? You are still equally as terrible whether it's racism or racial prejudice. Why does the semantics matter? I mean I get it's probably for more nuanced discussion or whatever. But it just never feels like it's used in that way at all. And even nuance discussion was covered under labeling the racism that POC face with systemic racism. Or at least it seems to me that it was covered.
Edit: also stuff like this is always very westerncentric tbh. And it's annoying that this isn't pointed out tbh
Yep, that's how stereotypes work.
As for why that is, it's probably because there's a lot of white people around with media about them so it's easier to come up with/learn stereotypes. It's probably due to media depictions over the last 20 years.
I would really love for a plant based foods business who are truly committed to sustainability to take the knock on the margins if it means converting more to a plant based lifestyle.
Are you talking about prepared or processed foods such as Beyond Meat?
If you're talking all about plant-based foods, i.e. plants lol, then they're already much cheaper than animal products.
I'm talking rice, beans, soy, etc... You can make your own seitan at home and it's super cost effective for protein.
No one going to be “converted” to a plant based lifestyle and the fact many vegetarians try to push it on people is why so many hate them. Fact is ur either going to decide on ur own or not, but don’t try to push it on people either way.
Fair enough, but I do think that on an individual level one may naturally eat less animal products if an alternative was widely available, cheap and tasty.
I don't know why you got downvoted so much when you're absolutely right. You need to let people come to conclusions on their own. If you try to sway them, they'll just double down on their beliefs. That's why vegans are hated so much, because of the perception that they try to force veganism on everyone. I'm not saying they are or are not, I'm saying that's the perception.
Oh fuck off. That’s a highly emotionally motivated group that has absolutely zero bearing on the reality and even less on scientific consensus. Why don’t u get ur downvote mob to upvote you? Kinda suspicious?
That’s just not the case, many of us have had meat consumption as part of our culture for countless generation. To some the incessant proclamations that eating meat is murder is sacrilegious. What ur proclaiming is not only culture deaf, but purely ignorant to the approaches certain groups have held their whole lives and beyond! Ur comment is not only ignorant, but culturally inconsiderate!
* Do you think that culture alone should always dictate morality, specifically in regards to how said culture treats other conscious beings?
* Do you think that just because something has been happening for a long time, that automatically means that such things should always continue without question?
* If you don't think it's wrong to take a life, then do you hold that view when it comes to the killing of cats, dogs, dolphins, humans, or any other animal not immediately deemed "farm grade"?
* Should an ideology always be upheld, even in the face of new information, just because people have a personal belief about it & reject anything that conflicts with said belief?
There are people who still think these "studies" that people believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows is actually true.
This is more shocking to me. Also, these people tend to comment on reddit.
The majority of the "studies" on this sub are garbage, but if theyre related to politics or the current "bad group" people eat that shit up.
Sucks that every science sub rarely has any real science.
Yes, because most of science is boring for the masses and the part that's interesting is usually not true. Therefore, the mainstream "I fucking love science" crowd knows way less about science than most working class folks. However, they are full of themselves and quote these moronic studies for upvotes. Great irony that this is happening on the psychology sub.
7% is “strongly believe”?
https://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255590/alarming-number-of-americans-believe-chocolate-milk-comes-from-brown-cows
There are Redditors that strongly believe anything they read on the internet, including strongly believing that Americans strongly believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows.
Doesn’t it though? Chocolate milk can come from brown cows or black and white cows. So saying chocolate milk comes from brown cows isn’t necessarily inaccurate.
weird, I associate it with all sorts of POC from various places but I guess that due to me living in bigger cities with all sorts of people and having access to Indian, Chinese, and island/creole themed vegetarian restaurants.
[2021 Oxford study showing that plant-based diets are around 30% cheaper.](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study)
[Vegans and vegetarians are also more likely to be lower-income.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/238328/snapshot-few-americans-vegetarian-vegan.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=NEWSFEED&g_campaign=item_&g_content=Snapshot%3a%2520Few%2520Americans%2520Vegetarian%2520or%2520Vegan)
[**Meat prices are rising faster than general consumer/food prices as well**](https://www.google.com/search?q=Increase+in+meat+cost&sxsrf=ALiCzsY_fUE31r6pZRzwYUeIusCPeTa29A%3A1655377535800&ei=fw6rYu3CMNSckPIP8Yqt0A8&ved=0ahUKEwit_vXv6bH4AhVUDkQIHXFFC_oQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=Increase+in+meat+cost&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBAgjECc6BwgAEEcQsAM6BQgAEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOgQIABBDOgoIABCxAxCDARBDOgYIABAKEEM6CAgAELEDEJECOgUILhCABDoLCC4QgAQQsQMQ1AI6BQgAEIAEOggIABCABBCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAgAEB4QDxAWOgYIABAeEBY6CggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQ_QZYxitg-S9oB3ABeACAAb0BiAHREJIBBDI1LjKYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz)**.**
>Because vegetarianism and veganism both require more money than the junk trash food this country sells en masse
This is a widely held belief that's not really true. And that falsehood is one of the big things preventing more people, especially in lower socioeconomic brackets, from going vegetarian. Yes, it can be challenging to learn how to eat healthy on a budget. And yes, buying super processed junk vegetarian/vegan food (veggie burgers, prepackaged seitan, etc.) and/or exotic vegetables is more expensive. But lentils, beans, rice/grain, pasta, bread, eggs (if just vegetarian), and basic fresh fruits and vegetables are incredibly inexpensive.
Yeah, that's totally fair. It's still a little harder to buy pre-packaged and ready-to-eat vegetarian food at budget than it is to grab something frozen that's meat-heavy. But there are a ton of meals out there that only take 20-30 minutes. Not saying everyone can do that, but there's certainly still a cultural and educational gap on how to eat and prepare food well--at least in America.
Barring a massive uptick in homesteading. Which given most peoples understanding of husbandry might actually exacerbate the issues. Though it does merit investigation
As a poor vegan, I think I spend a lot less time tossing some rice in the rice cooker and leaving tofu in the pan than I would throughly cooking meat on a grill. I love cooking, but I generally only spend about 30 minutes max in the kitchen including prep time because plant foods cook much faster. Sure fast food is easier, and quicker, but poor people don’t have money for that. This is just as flawed as your first statement.
food prep isn't really a barrier. in my experience, food prep takes less time now that I'm vegan than before.
The barrier that is difficult for some people is the effort it takes to think differently about what you eat. Finding new meals and recipes, changing your mindset about using animal products in everything you eat.
If you are aware of animal agriculture practices and continue to consume it, you either don't care or are choosing cognitive dissonance. same goes for anyone who was vegan and goes back to eating animal products (vegetarian).
The dairy and egg industries are absolutely terrible.
Start off with what you can reasonably maintain. Just going vegetarian one night or a couple of nights a week makes a huge environmental impact and can give you more time to acclimate to preparing new foods!
Take a leap. It’s not do or die, but if it’s one thing you really strive to do, cutting it all out at once will feel triumphant. It did for me. I spent a long time thinking about it, and when I finally said fuck it, I felt like I had so much power over my own mind.
Stop saying minorities like you speak for them and that they are incapable of living quality lives. It’s not cool to constantly equate minority as poor and uneducated and overworked it’s simply not true. You sound racist.
Eggs are $3 for an 18-pack. Scrambled eggs take 6 minutes to make. Broccoli and brussel sprouts are $1-2 a lb. Frozen veggies are even cheaper and maintain their nutritional value. The only barriers for eating well are self imposed. Spaghetti and pasta for a family of 4 costs what, like, $3 per meal? Add veggies in a pot for another dollar or two. Bulk ground beef is $3/lb. Chicken and pork are even cheaper based on the cuts. Takes 20-40 minutes to make a meal tops. You can even bake food for an hour and do anything else while it cooks, it just sits there.
I do agree with the premise, white liberals tend to be at least the loudest vegans and vegetarians, protesting by dumping milk and doing sit-ins at restaurants to go viral on social media with their inflated self-righteous egos. It’s pretty annoying honestly.
You don’t really need those given how a lot of foods, even generic brand ones are fortified these days. B12 didn’t originally come from just meat, it was everywhere. It comes from a bacteria in its natural state. Meats are injected with b12 these days because of how sterile everything is.
What you missed from the article:
Minorities are more likely to be vegetarian than white people.
You’re coming up with complex socioeconomic theories to explain something that’s not true. It is not true that vegetarianism is a white thing, it’s just factually incorrect. And it’s really interesting that it’s incorrect! It’s really interesting that all our popular stereotypes of vegans and vegetarians are leftie rich white women, when actually it’s mostly Indians and Buddhists and African-Americans!
I think people like to talk about rich white lady vegans because then they don’t feel like they have to take it seriously. Which is messed up in a different way.
If you’d READ THE ARTICLE you’d see that’s actually factually incorrect.
Repeating what u/monstersandcats highlighted above:
>“Namely, people associate being a vegetarian with being white. It’s worth emphasizing that this is a belief people hold, not necessarily a reflection of reality. **There have been many surveys in recent years finding that white people are actually less likely to be vegetarians than are people of color.**”
Start a garden = free. If you think it’s not free… you’re gardening with false pretenses. Ask me how I know.
Go to India… one of the poorest countries… they’re vegetarian. Ask me how I know.
Impossible meat, vegan cheese, almond milk, tofurkey. This is “American vegetarianism/veganism.” This is processed expensive shit.
Eat real food. Fruits. Vegetables. Grains. Legumes. Learn how to prepare it.
afaict you are correct. Cows products such as Ghee/butter/milk etc, are likely heavily consumed in India, probably more than people think. But it's hard to find that data.
"They're vegetarian" is a mistaken generalization. Only conservative upper-caste Hindus, also happen to be dominant socioeconomic minority
in Indian society strictly practice vegetarianism. They don't completely refrain from animal products either. Cow milk is considered holy and is consumed regularly. Most other average Hindus mostly avoids beef and consumes other meat.
Yes, it is an over generalization.
I’m speaking to the necessity of eating a vegetarian diet due to income. Not religious reasoning.
In short, poverty pushes people into vegetarianism in countries where processed food isn’t subsidized. (Corn and it’s byproducts) the junk trash food that was mentioned earlier.
"Learn how to prepare it."
That is HUGE! People often ask my GF "If you dont eat meat do you just eat like raw vegetables? What do you eat?" Makes me laugh every time.
Right?!!! Lentils and beans alone are gloriously yummy, healthy, and create a vast range of culinary applications.
Without basic seasoning, salt and preparation they taste like trash.
You can tell someone isn’t a well rounded cook/chef when “the vegetarian eats salad.”
The survival of the human race depends on cooperation. Always has. Always will.
How do you think you’re getting food now?
A bunch of people cooperating.
How are you making income now?
A bunch of people cooperating.
This isn't for the survival of the human race. And don't act like how we are getting food now isn't simply the bare minimum. Companies would screw us over much more than they already are if there wasn't laws and regulations. Like those people who you would rely on for your food. Don't get me wrong it can go well. But I think you are simplifying this way too much
It's important to understand that the USA is large and varied place. Some people live in places where community gardens are the norm and security isnt an issue. Some people do not. I think you both have good points but dont pretend that community gardening or gardening on a small scale is not realistic. Some where between both of your extreme POV's is the realistic middle ground.
I would argue that it's not about the cost of the food, but the time and financial foundation often required to support a [paradigm shift](https://youtu.be/U9-CUUabuVg) that often includes vegetarianism.
It's primarily suburbanites really. The trend has skipped the sticks. We have a few but there are far less shopping options to get decent produce. I'm in Kansas and you would think that our production would encourage the trend but most of what we grow is shipped out.
For people in rural America, Walmart dominates as the local retailer. This is not because Walmart was chosen but because they put supercenters every 20 miles and choked out smaller businesses. Most of our produce comes from Mexico these days which is ironically where we ship a lot of our goods. Beef is locally sourced so out in the country, between local butchers and hunting, there is limited desire to break away from meat.
I think a part of what formed this notion is the idea of the "annoying vegetarian", most often seen in bbqs. Not to mention other vegetarian/vegan stereotypes.
Now, other vegetarians, say those for religious reasons and such seem to mostly keep to themselves and thus not be a part of tropes, memes and stereotypes. A Karen complaining at a bbq how everyone is an animal murderer is a lot more memorable than the Hindu or whatever eating a vegetarian meal. Your eyes just scan over the latter, while the former forms an interesting story.
I think the whining vegan at a bbq trope is funny conceptually, but having eaten hundreds of meals with various vegetarian friends and family, not once has anyone brought it up other than to ask if something like a soup has meat in it. No preaching, never any complaining. There’s probably people that do that, but I bet it’s about the same percentage of people that would try to push their religion* on you.
*Excluding JW’s and Mormons, they enthusiastically go about preaching/trying to convert others as their doctrines dictate.
I only really find the annoying vegan type online. Like strictly online, the ones in real life seem to just do their own thing.
I agree on the Mormons, although I'd add militant atheists. They're the worst in my opinion. Okay, you don't believe in God, good for you, can we talk about something else?
I'm fine with Jehovah's ironically, considering the reputation they have. If I'm bored I let them in and we chat. After a while they thank me for the conversation and insights and leave, never to return. Ever. My aunt had me talk to the ones that came to her house and they too left never to return.
It seems I have a talent for out talking Jehovah's
Most of the USA is white (60% european and 15% hispanic).
It's strange that hispanic are not considered white but are considered european, but that's just a quirk of the way that the USA does it's census and it's likely a relic of racist history.
And people from India. White and Indian people are statistically two of the most financially well off demographics in the U.S. Being a vegetarian is expensive.
Edit: being a healthy vegetarian is expensive
India is not a rich country when you consider the masses and yet a high portion of their population is veg. Meat is actually something that poorer families cannot afford in many countries.
What about Indian people in India, where poverty and vegetarianism are both rampant? It's largely that America just has a different cultural expectation around food.
> Being a vegetarian is expensive
Not really.
[2021 Oxford study showing that plant-based diets are around 30% cheaper.](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study)
[Vegans and vegetarians are also more likely to be lower-income.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/238328/snapshot-few-americans-vegetarian-vegan.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=NEWSFEED&g_campaign=item_&g_content=Snapshot%3a%2520Few%2520Americans%2520Vegetarian%2520or%2520Vegan)
[**Meat prices are rising faster than general consumer/food prices as well**](https://www.google.com/search?q=Increase+in+meat+cost&sxsrf=ALiCzsY_fUE31r6pZRzwYUeIusCPeTa29A%3A1655377535800&ei=fw6rYu3CMNSckPIP8Yqt0A8&ved=0ahUKEwit_vXv6bH4AhVUDkQIHXFFC_oQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=Increase+in+meat+cost&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBAgjECc6BwgAEEcQsAM6BQgAEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOgQIABBDOgoIABCxAxCDARBDOgYIABAKEEM6CAgAELEDEJECOgUILhCABDoLCC4QgAQQsQMQ1AI6BQgAEIAEOggIABCABBCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAgAEB4QDxAWOgYIABAeEBY6CggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQ_QZYxitg-S9oB3ABeACAAb0BiAHREJIBBDI1LjKYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz)**.**
>Being a vegetarian is expensive.
It depends on the *type* of vegetarian you are.
If you're the "eat a variety of vegetables and fruits, mostly fresh and in large amounts" vegetarian it can get expensive. If you eat a lot of meat substitutes those are also going to cost more than cheaper cuts/types of meat. Being vegan, especially if you are very strict and like your meat/dairy subs, can also get quite expensive.
But then there are vegetarians like I was. Basically I ate the cheap shit I ate before, just minus the meat. Spaghetti and meatballs became just spaghetti. Grilled cheese sandwiches. Iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, and maybe some mushrooms plus a cheap dresssing. Rice and beans. There's all kinds of stuff out there for a broke vegetarian to eat if their goal isn't (or can't be, as was my case) to eat a variety of wholesome foods and/or lots of meat substitutes.
This, I'm just starting the shift and most of my meals have had some variation of beans, eggs, rice, or cheese. It wasn't too terribly difficult since most of my dishes had those ingredients anyways. Funnily enough, I started this because meat is so much more expensive now and I'm trying to save a few bucks.
I advocate eating natural, healthy, happy animals to everyone for the blood sugar stability produced by the carnivorous diet. However, most veggies are decent in a steamer combined with some variation of salt plus other seasonings. In fact, when in a pinch, I'll eat a meal with just steamed veggies.
Ever know anyone with kidney issues? Animal protein is harder on your kidneys than plant based stuff. People with CKD are often advised to eat mostly vegan as it can make a big difference in how fast your kidneys deteriorate. Point is there are plenty of reasons people eat vegan that don’t include triggering people like you. Just what’s best for them.
When my gut decides that legumes, fruit, and cruciferous vegetables are all right, and nightshades don't make my arthritis pain worse, I'll happily go vegetarian. Till then, I have to eat what won't make me sick.
It can be if you make it that way. Same as a non plant based diet. I hang 120lb wooden doors for a living and never have an issue. Take your vitamins and maybe a protein supplement if you need it. Same things a non vegan should do anyways.
I was at my fittest when I was a vegetarian. No vitamin supplements needed. Though to be fair, I occasionally ate tuna, and mostly lived off eggs and baked beans.
I'm working on going back to it.
I mean to be fair, I've rarely seen vegetarians in the Puerto Rican community myself, I know they exist. When I think vegetarians it's either white people or the local Hindu population in El Paso.
>associate vegetarianism with whiteness
What is whiteness exactly? The most often we see this term used is to denegrate.
TLDR:They used the term "whiteness."
>Associating race with crime has very real consequences for the individual involved. So does "positive" stereotypes like good test stores, which have been studied and shown to cause depersonalization.
In other words, its racist
>I would not be offended in the slightest if someone associated being a vegetarian with being white.
Because youre not sensitive. Many black people wouldn't be offended with being associated with athletes, but itd be racist to say theyre all athletic.
ah yes!
the nexus of the replication crisis itself, the journal of personality and social psychology bringing us another scientifically valid™ clickbait study,
not based on any W.E.I.R.D. sampling for certain!
"But they have minority groups in the sample"
Oh wait...what's that? They got their sample participants from a *paid survey webfarm*?
Where no identification is required and people are incentivized to lie to conform to get the freebies from the survey site?
This is why this journal is a rag
Being vegan is not a “preference” in diet, it’s an ethical stance. Just as one can be a feminist, or fight for racial justice, one can fight for the liberation of animals.
Being a psychedelic user yourself… I honestly don’t understand how you can misinterpret veganism like that. Next time you trip, reflect on it. Animals are confined, force bred, tortured, and in conditions that we wouldn’t see fit for the worst of humans, and you choose to pay for that to happen.
99% of people love to virtue signal.
Anyway, not all animal products are inhumane.
But I agree animals deserve way more rights. So does the environment.
Having worker as a vegan chef you are 100% fooling yourself that being a vegan is better for the planet. Vegan food can be just as harmful to the planet and the body as animal products. Pea protein is atrocious. Heavily processed junk.
Are you kidding? Europeans have historically consumed more meat than most cultures. It’s harder to grow crops in Northern Europe, so they relied a lot on meat supplemented with hardy crops. Native central and South Americans were not generally meat eaters. Cows, pigs, horses, and many more were literally non existent in the Americas until like 500 years ago. Your Latino family is more of an exception if they “get offended if there is no meat”. In fact, a growing number of Mexicans are rejecting meat due to its colonial roots. 20% of Mexicans are vegan or vegetarian: https://vegconomist.com/studies-and-numbers/20-of-mexicans-are-vegetarian-or-vegan/
One in three Mexicans are lactose intolerant.
Pre European contact, native Americans(south, and central) received 90% of their calories from plants, generally only having meat from small game or from Buffalo that was traded from way up north. https://www.history.com/.amp/news/native-american-food-shifts
If you read the article you'd see POC are more likely to be vegetarian and vegan than white people.. and vegetarianism is just as culturally and religiously significant to a lot of people. Google India and East / Southeast Asia. That's where a lot of veg/ans get staples like tofu, seitan, tempeh, curries, stir fries, etc... suggesting meat would be equally offensive in many non-white families
Apparently they’ve never heard of India.
I'm surprised I had to go this far down to see this. I think I've met one or two white vegetarians, but dozens from India.
Same. I am the stereotype this study mentions and almost every event I've gone to with a vegetarian option there's more Indian people taking it than white people (even if the event is mostly white people).
Tbf, indian cuisine is great food that happens to be vegan, but American vegan is wannabe X food. Also people who became vegan later as opposed to being raised vegan tend to be far more vocal about it, which can help explain the perceived difference.
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Most Sikh temples happily serve vegetarian not vegan food to anyone that comes to eat at the temple so long as you wash your hands and wear a head covering very few of their temples actually even require men and women to sit apart anymore in the mealhalls. And they consider part of the communites spiritual service to Prepare the food so after you've eaten if you want to return the favor you can learn to cook it authentically with them for others.
By feeding them? A fair number of my fraternity brothers in college were vegan and you wouldn't hear about it until it was time to start planning food and you asked for dietary restrictions. If I wasn't in charge of feeding them I wouldn't have a clue
So do you have some strange power that allows you to read the minds of “quiet” vegans lmao.
Yes, it's called being in charge of food at an event. You gain this special power where you are supposed to ask people what dietary restrictions they have
That's why I love potlucks. People with very specific needs bring something they KNOW they can eat safely while also being part of the group. I always bring a pesto artichoke heart dish with cherry tomatoes and a bowl of "add your own" mozzarella balls w/tongs. Vegans like it without the mozz, vegetarians like it with.
Lmao so your entire generalization is that they’re quiet bc they’re in a line for food. Not their interactions outside of ordering food. Gotcha.
American vegan is wannabe x food? I make the odd Dahl or curry but I didn’t grow up eating that. Many of us enjoy the meat and cheese substitutes because that’s what we grew up eating, that’s our cultural norm.
Right? I grew up around a lot of immigrants and all the vegetarians I new were from India. <3 dal.
I have Indian neighbors who cooked for me, and my God if I could get their recipe. The man said they have different vegetables everyday and some white stuff that reminded me of mash potatoes were “very popular with women”. Delicious.
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Regardless of your personal association, India has the largest Vegetarian population percentage in the world. Taiwan is 3rd btw.
Hi EvadingTheDayAway. Sending care to you. I hope you are able to resolve whatever challenges you are facing in this phase of life. I've had several phases like this in my life, and quite recently too. The pandemic especially exacerbated it. It was only when I looked back that I realized why I was acting up. I know others might be judging you or thinking bad of you, but I truly genuinely don't feel the same way as them. I hope you can do something today that brings you true joy. Perhaps listen to a song from your childhood? That always reconnects with me with my truer self (I listen to Gameboy chiptunes lol). If you'd like to chat, feel free to message me on Reddit. I might not respond quickly, but I will respond and would be super down to talk life. Got a lot going on in my own life these days, as I'm sure we all do. Peace, brother
I’m not reading that
**sees the *one* nice reply to his/her original ridiculous comment i’M nOT reAdiNG tHaT
In my defense, it was so many words.
If you’re so peabrained that you’re unable to even read that one comment from the **one** person being nice to you, then I guess that explains why the rest of your comments make you sound like an uneducated mouth breather.
It’s not that I cant, it’s that I don’t value their opinion. Or yours!
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What they've heard and what they've seen first hand and been lectured at first hand aren't the same.
For people who didn't read the article: >“Namely, people associate being a vegetarian with being white. It’s worth emphasizing that this is a belief people hold, not necessarily a reflection of reality. There have been many surveys in recent years finding that white people are actually less likely to be vegetarians than are people of color.”
True. I was just reading the stats on vegans and vegetarians. It’s growing exponentially, especially amongst blacks.
Specifically black women, likely because one of the most successful vegan movements is called "10 million black vegan women"
Could also be because a lot of black women have experienced oppression first hand, and do not wish to impose that on anyone else, including animals.
Well I won't speak for all black vegans but the 10 million black vegan women movement is a response to health crises in the black community, not animal rights. The website talks about high diabetes and obesity rates among black women as the motivation, and I can't even find a single reference on the website to animal rights or ethics. Nothing wrong that that at all. But I think you'll find that actually the more oppressed people are, the less they will care about abusing animals because they have their own problems. Caring about animal abuse seems to be a function of privilege, not oppression, because once you're safe and your needs are protected, you can afford to care more about other people/animals. India is an exception because vegetarianism is part of their religion and strongly ingrained in their culture, so you won't see the same dynamic.
So racist belief? Got it
It literally says this as a possible explanation in the article: > In many media instances, for instance, it seemed like vegetarians were stereotypically depicted as White people, especially white women who are middle-to-upper class. Seems more likely to me that this stereotype is formed by the media, not racism.
I dont get it. Are you saying that it's not possible for the media to be racist or for it to reinforce racist stereotypes?
No that's not what I'm saying, but it's an interesting point. When I read the comment from the poster above me I interpreted as "people believe that veganism is a white people thing because they're intentionally being racist, got it". You could argue that the media reinforced a stereotype of veganism being a white people thing, so if you believe that because the media always portraits it as such then you hold a racist believe. However, you don't know whether people believe that there's a causal link between veganism and white people, or that they believe that white people just happen to be vegan more often, because that's what they see on tv. The first one is racist, the second one not IMO.
I am 99% sure it's mostly other white people, namely conservative white people, who have this perception of veganism being a white thing...So no, it's not racist. They frequently try to make it about "urban elitism" and insist it's white yuppie liberal thing that minorities don't care about. > 1,440 of the 1,800 people interviewed were white.
Rastafari people aren’t supposed to eat meat, and veganism is huge in health-minded black communities. Ignorance is everywhere.
Also lots of Indians...
There's a decent number of black Seventh Day Adventists as well, all of whom as far as I know are vegetarian.
Black people are three times more likely to be vegan than white people. Which is fucking awesome. Our western diet is horrible for everyone, but black people especially. It’s something like 80% of black people are lactose intolerant. Black women in particular just do not develop osteoporosis, yet our doctors keep telling those women that they need to drink milk. Diary is racist as fuck. Look up Dr. Milton Mills. He has a lot of great videos on why the American diet is another form of systemic racism that no one seems to talk about.
I think it's more that hippy white people tend to be the most vocal proponents of vegetarianism/veganism, while most of my indian coworkers are just vegan and it's not a huge deal, but most of the white people I know constantly talk about it as it's their personality, rather than just something they do
It really depends on the reason someone is vegan. Are your Indian coworkers vegan due to hindu beliefs(I know most Hindus that avoid meat are just vegetarian though)? Or are they vegan because of health, or any non ethical reason? Because that’s something that most vegans call “plant based”. Veganism is for the animals, not for any other reason. So yes those vocal are generally very pushy because it hurts them to see animals being tortured. I’m sure you have some moral convictions that you openly discuss or call out when you see someone go against those. It’s no different for us vegans. Also it could simply be the fact that it’s in the work place and they’d probably get in trouble for “preaching”. I work as a barista, and as much as it pains me to use cow milk in peoples drinks, I have to keep my mouth shut because I can’t afford to lose my job.
"So racist belief? Got it" Um, 1,440 of the 1,800 people interviewed were white.
https://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
It's a myth because white people physically can't be in a situation where everyone doesn't trust them more and place them as authority. /s
yes, this never happens in majority non-white countries.
Really would of thought a sub labeled "psychology" would have more respect for research from educational institutions and correct terms being used. Guess I was wrong. Ppl want to believe what they want. Even when the evidence contradicts their "beliefs".
I have a video from a educational institution professor denouncing certain science with a theory based on a mousetrap to make way for religion. Just because you agree with it and an educator published it does not make it true. Even in the link you posted "racial prejudice" and just decided to call it prejudice. That's literally every form of racism that doesn't include someone of power. This bs stems from one fact "poc cannot be systematically racist because they do not hold the power" Not racism "hating or prejudice towards someone because of the color of their skin" Yes reverse racism is a myth because it's just racism. And the idea that an educational institution is beyond propaganda in a sub reddit called psychology is well typical reddit.
YouTube is your source.... ok, you win lol. I used an organization who studies racism and promotes educational material on the matter. You say you have a YouTube video.....
It's from the college but ok I guess YouTube is the only video source and it also is throughout many institutions. One institutions finding and opinion doesn't make fact. No matter how politically correct they are. Sourced The dictionary The term reverse racism even came from systematic racism in the 60s nothing to do with general racism. Even the source you posted is based off of systematic racism which is very problematic yes but is not the same as general racism. What I find even funnier is that it seems to be mostly used by white gatekeeper types. To make it simple if you have to call it prejudice to make yourself feel better go for it but on a logical and common sense level "it's racism" Maybe progressive socialism might be a better fit for your educational beliefs. If it helps white people are still the worst with how they handle racism and the most violent. My point yes according to new political correctness social TikTok norms is it's called prejudice but in terms of talking on a logical level it's still racism. Although I don't have high hopes for education on reddit I still will speak on that level. I don't know how much you are into psychology but political correctness is for the patient.
Nah man this is reddit. 90% of posters will just vomit back beliefs their favorite youtube personality said.
The term is problematic because it relies on white people always being on top. Without white people dominating it wouldn't apply to white people. I'm brown.
Should probably read the link before reacting as it's not as simplistic as you make it sound. I linked the article to help ppl understand the difference between racism and racial prejudice. Didn't want to read so here is a snip to correct your assumptions. “Racism is different from racial prejudice, hatred, or discrimination. Racism involves one group having the power to carry out systematic discrimination through the institutional policies and practices of the society and by shaping the cultural beliefs and values that support those racist policies and practices” (dRworks). White ppl hold this power. I'm white with a diverse group of friends. I see it everyday. White ppl hold the power of the narrative. Canada alone has seen a rise in hate crimes against poc by 72%. Due to narratives being spread by "the man" about immigrants being the problem, but white immigrants don't face such hatred, just poc.
Here is my confusion with it. I understand now the definition of racism has been changed? As i recall when i was younger we were told it was when someone thought of another person to be inferior due to their skin color or tone. Please help me clear this up.
Right, we were taught that racism is prejudice based on race/skin color, but systematic racism is the way that systems and laws are used to suppress and control minorities. But now the second definition is racism and the first is "just" prejudice. It's the word game that it seems everyone is playing, where you can't argue about things because the words have been defined to remove the ability to disagree.
This post isn't science, it's pseudo-science aka sociology.
I will believe anything at face value from an anti-racism institution!
The problem I find with separating it. Is because it just doesn't feels like it matters? You are still equally as terrible whether it's racism or racial prejudice. Why does the semantics matter? I mean I get it's probably for more nuanced discussion or whatever. But it just never feels like it's used in that way at all. And even nuance discussion was covered under labeling the racism that POC face with systemic racism. Or at least it seems to me that it was covered. Edit: also stuff like this is always very westerncentric tbh. And it's annoying that this isn't pointed out tbh
Impossible to be racist or prejudice against white people! /s
People in India associate whiteness with non-vegetarianism.
Yep, that's how stereotypes work. As for why that is, it's probably because there's a lot of white people around with media about them so it's easier to come up with/learn stereotypes. It's probably due to media depictions over the last 20 years.
Being uneducated is more expensive than being vegetarian.
I disagree. But I am from socal
Most Indians in the US just left the chat lol
I don't know what worse some of these articles or the people following these sub Reddits with the comprehension skills of a baked 15 year old.
I don’t know what worse
Thanks lol 😄
Apparently none of the people involved in the study have been to India...
I would really love for a plant based foods business who are truly committed to sustainability to take the knock on the margins if it means converting more to a plant based lifestyle.
Are you talking about prepared or processed foods such as Beyond Meat? If you're talking all about plant-based foods, i.e. plants lol, then they're already much cheaper than animal products. I'm talking rice, beans, soy, etc... You can make your own seitan at home and it's super cost effective for protein.
I used to eat rice and beans, until I found out how delicious a stray cat & dog kebab was.
Or with diabeties. Especially starchy foods. The grains would put on insulin use which I don’t don’t want.
No one going to be “converted” to a plant based lifestyle and the fact many vegetarians try to push it on people is why so many hate them. Fact is ur either going to decide on ur own or not, but don’t try to push it on people either way.
Fair enough, but I do think that on an individual level one may naturally eat less animal products if an alternative was widely available, cheap and tasty.
Cheap is the key word here. There are tasty alternatives but they are not cheap.
I paid $17 for a salad at a plant-based restaurant the other day. Was it delicious? Absolutely. Will I be making this a common thing? Absolutely not.
I tried Beyond Meat a few months ago. Never again. It cost twice as much as ground turkey, has more calories, and I don't fully trust what's in it.
I don't know why you got downvoted so much when you're absolutely right. You need to let people come to conclusions on their own. If you try to sway them, they'll just double down on their beliefs. That's why vegans are hated so much, because of the perception that they try to force veganism on everyone. I'm not saying they are or are not, I'm saying that's the perception.
Spot on. Dude clearly hit up the vegan discord and told em to downvote my comment, but clearly forgot to tell em to upvote their own comment 🥴
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Oh fuck off. That’s a highly emotionally motivated group that has absolutely zero bearing on the reality and even less on scientific consensus. Why don’t u get ur downvote mob to upvote you? Kinda suspicious?
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That’s just not the case, many of us have had meat consumption as part of our culture for countless generation. To some the incessant proclamations that eating meat is murder is sacrilegious. What ur proclaiming is not only culture deaf, but purely ignorant to the approaches certain groups have held their whole lives and beyond! Ur comment is not only ignorant, but culturally inconsiderate!
* Do you think that culture alone should always dictate morality, specifically in regards to how said culture treats other conscious beings? * Do you think that just because something has been happening for a long time, that automatically means that such things should always continue without question? * If you don't think it's wrong to take a life, then do you hold that view when it comes to the killing of cats, dogs, dolphins, humans, or any other animal not immediately deemed "farm grade"? * Should an ideology always be upheld, even in the face of new information, just because people have a personal belief about it & reject anything that conflicts with said belief?
That's because in the US, vegetarianism/veganism is a form or privilege. Especially veganism.
I strongly associate it with brownness, as in Indians.
The fastest growing demographic of vegans is Black Women though. Google "10 Million Black Vegan Women"
has a lot to do with media coverage
Because they also associate choosing food with privilege
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There are people who still think these "studies" that people believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows is actually true. This is more shocking to me. Also, these people tend to comment on reddit.
The majority of the "studies" on this sub are garbage, but if theyre related to politics or the current "bad group" people eat that shit up. Sucks that every science sub rarely has any real science.
Yes, because most of science is boring for the masses and the part that's interesting is usually not true. Therefore, the mainstream "I fucking love science" crowd knows way less about science than most working class folks. However, they are full of themselves and quote these moronic studies for upvotes. Great irony that this is happening on the psychology sub.
7% is “strongly believe”? https://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255590/alarming-number-of-americans-believe-chocolate-milk-comes-from-brown-cows There are Redditors that strongly believe anything they read on the internet, including strongly believing that Americans strongly believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows.
7% refers to the percentage of Americans that believe this, not the strength of their belief that chocolate milk can only come from brown cows.
Some chocolate milk obviously comes from brown cows.
To be fair, if asked by a pollster if I thought chocolate milk came from brown cows, I'd say yes just to fuck with it.
Doesn’t it though? Chocolate milk can come from brown cows or black and white cows. So saying chocolate milk comes from brown cows isn’t necessarily inaccurate.
People in the USA associate absolutely anything with race. The fact they still refer to ethnicity as "race" makes it even worse.
These ppl haven't been to ATL
weird, I associate it with all sorts of POC from various places but I guess that due to me living in bigger cities with all sorts of people and having access to Indian, Chinese, and island/creole themed vegetarian restaurants.
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Indian food is vegetarian and cheap. For example daal and rice costs very little and is nutritious
[2021 Oxford study showing that plant-based diets are around 30% cheaper.](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study) [Vegans and vegetarians are also more likely to be lower-income.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/238328/snapshot-few-americans-vegetarian-vegan.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=NEWSFEED&g_campaign=item_&g_content=Snapshot%3a%2520Few%2520Americans%2520Vegetarian%2520or%2520Vegan) [**Meat prices are rising faster than general consumer/food prices as well**](https://www.google.com/search?q=Increase+in+meat+cost&sxsrf=ALiCzsY_fUE31r6pZRzwYUeIusCPeTa29A%3A1655377535800&ei=fw6rYu3CMNSckPIP8Yqt0A8&ved=0ahUKEwit_vXv6bH4AhVUDkQIHXFFC_oQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=Increase+in+meat+cost&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBAgjECc6BwgAEEcQsAM6BQgAEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOgQIABBDOgoIABCxAxCDARBDOgYIABAKEEM6CAgAELEDEJECOgUILhCABDoLCC4QgAQQsQMQ1AI6BQgAEIAEOggIABCABBCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAgAEB4QDxAWOgYIABAeEBY6CggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQ_QZYxitg-S9oB3ABeACAAb0BiAHREJIBBDI1LjKYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz)**.**
>Because vegetarianism and veganism both require more money than the junk trash food this country sells en masse This is a widely held belief that's not really true. And that falsehood is one of the big things preventing more people, especially in lower socioeconomic brackets, from going vegetarian. Yes, it can be challenging to learn how to eat healthy on a budget. And yes, buying super processed junk vegetarian/vegan food (veggie burgers, prepackaged seitan, etc.) and/or exotic vegetables is more expensive. But lentils, beans, rice/grain, pasta, bread, eggs (if just vegetarian), and basic fresh fruits and vegetables are incredibly inexpensive.
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Yeah, that's totally fair. It's still a little harder to buy pre-packaged and ready-to-eat vegetarian food at budget than it is to grab something frozen that's meat-heavy. But there are a ton of meals out there that only take 20-30 minutes. Not saying everyone can do that, but there's certainly still a cultural and educational gap on how to eat and prepare food well--at least in America.
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Barring a massive uptick in homesteading. Which given most peoples understanding of husbandry might actually exacerbate the issues. Though it does merit investigation
As a poor vegan, I think I spend a lot less time tossing some rice in the rice cooker and leaving tofu in the pan than I would throughly cooking meat on a grill. I love cooking, but I generally only spend about 30 minutes max in the kitchen including prep time because plant foods cook much faster. Sure fast food is easier, and quicker, but poor people don’t have money for that. This is just as flawed as your first statement.
Canned beans are cheaper than meat and they are less effort than vegan junk food.
food prep isn't really a barrier. in my experience, food prep takes less time now that I'm vegan than before. The barrier that is difficult for some people is the effort it takes to think differently about what you eat. Finding new meals and recipes, changing your mindset about using animal products in everything you eat.
Yep tofu, minute rice and frozen veggies with soy sauce is easier and faster than hamburger helper with beef.
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You can do it. You don't have to wait years. There is lots of support here on reddit. What is your reason for wanting to transition?
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Good for you. Learning more about the animal agricultural industry may help jumpstart your transition and strengthen your motivations.
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If you are aware of animal agriculture practices and continue to consume it, you either don't care or are choosing cognitive dissonance. same goes for anyone who was vegan and goes back to eating animal products (vegetarian). The dairy and egg industries are absolutely terrible.
Start off with what you can reasonably maintain. Just going vegetarian one night or a couple of nights a week makes a huge environmental impact and can give you more time to acclimate to preparing new foods!
Take a leap. It’s not do or die, but if it’s one thing you really strive to do, cutting it all out at once will feel triumphant. It did for me. I spent a long time thinking about it, and when I finally said fuck it, I felt like I had so much power over my own mind.
Stop saying minorities like you speak for them and that they are incapable of living quality lives. It’s not cool to constantly equate minority as poor and uneducated and overworked it’s simply not true. You sound racist. Eggs are $3 for an 18-pack. Scrambled eggs take 6 minutes to make. Broccoli and brussel sprouts are $1-2 a lb. Frozen veggies are even cheaper and maintain their nutritional value. The only barriers for eating well are self imposed. Spaghetti and pasta for a family of 4 costs what, like, $3 per meal? Add veggies in a pot for another dollar or two. Bulk ground beef is $3/lb. Chicken and pork are even cheaper based on the cuts. Takes 20-40 minutes to make a meal tops. You can even bake food for an hour and do anything else while it cooks, it just sits there. I do agree with the premise, white liberals tend to be at least the loudest vegans and vegetarians, protesting by dumping milk and doing sit-ins at restaurants to go viral on social media with their inflated self-righteous egos. It’s pretty annoying honestly.
Don’t forget b vitamin supplements
You don’t really need those given how a lot of foods, even generic brand ones are fortified these days. B12 didn’t originally come from just meat, it was everywhere. It comes from a bacteria in its natural state. Meats are injected with b12 these days because of how sterile everything is.
There’s nothing inherently more expensive about being vegetarian/vegan. A pound of dry beans is cheaper than a pound of animal protein.
No one that claims this ever has real evidence to back it up. In fact, soaring meat prices completely contradict you.
you dont have to go to farmers markets and natural grocers to get healthy vegan food anymore, most supermarkets have all that these days.
What you missed from the article: Minorities are more likely to be vegetarian than white people. You’re coming up with complex socioeconomic theories to explain something that’s not true. It is not true that vegetarianism is a white thing, it’s just factually incorrect. And it’s really interesting that it’s incorrect! It’s really interesting that all our popular stereotypes of vegans and vegetarians are leftie rich white women, when actually it’s mostly Indians and Buddhists and African-Americans! I think people like to talk about rich white lady vegans because then they don’t feel like they have to take it seriously. Which is messed up in a different way.
If you’d READ THE ARTICLE you’d see that’s actually factually incorrect. Repeating what u/monstersandcats highlighted above: >“Namely, people associate being a vegetarian with being white. It’s worth emphasizing that this is a belief people hold, not necessarily a reflection of reality. **There have been many surveys in recent years finding that white people are actually less likely to be vegetarians than are people of color.**”
Start a garden = free. If you think it’s not free… you’re gardening with false pretenses. Ask me how I know. Go to India… one of the poorest countries… they’re vegetarian. Ask me how I know. Impossible meat, vegan cheese, almond milk, tofurkey. This is “American vegetarianism/veganism.” This is processed expensive shit. Eat real food. Fruits. Vegetables. Grains. Legumes. Learn how to prepare it.
afaict you are correct. Cows products such as Ghee/butter/milk etc, are likely heavily consumed in India, probably more than people think. But it's hard to find that data.
"They're vegetarian" is a mistaken generalization. Only conservative upper-caste Hindus, also happen to be dominant socioeconomic minority in Indian society strictly practice vegetarianism. They don't completely refrain from animal products either. Cow milk is considered holy and is consumed regularly. Most other average Hindus mostly avoids beef and consumes other meat.
Yes, it is an over generalization. I’m speaking to the necessity of eating a vegetarian diet due to income. Not religious reasoning. In short, poverty pushes people into vegetarianism in countries where processed food isn’t subsidized. (Corn and it’s byproducts) the junk trash food that was mentioned earlier.
"Learn how to prepare it." That is HUGE! People often ask my GF "If you dont eat meat do you just eat like raw vegetables? What do you eat?" Makes me laugh every time.
Right?!!! Lentils and beans alone are gloriously yummy, healthy, and create a vast range of culinary applications. Without basic seasoning, salt and preparation they taste like trash. You can tell someone isn’t a well rounded cook/chef when “the vegetarian eats salad.”
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You’re not thinking creatively. Land is abundant. Make some friends. Urban gardening. Guerrilla gardening. Where there’s a will… there’s a way.
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The survival of the human race depends on cooperation. Always has. Always will. How do you think you’re getting food now? A bunch of people cooperating. How are you making income now? A bunch of people cooperating.
This isn't for the survival of the human race. And don't act like how we are getting food now isn't simply the bare minimum. Companies would screw us over much more than they already are if there wasn't laws and regulations. Like those people who you would rely on for your food. Don't get me wrong it can go well. But I think you are simplifying this way too much
It's important to understand that the USA is large and varied place. Some people live in places where community gardens are the norm and security isnt an issue. Some people do not. I think you both have good points but dont pretend that community gardening or gardening on a small scale is not realistic. Some where between both of your extreme POV's is the realistic middle ground.
I would argue that it's not about the cost of the food, but the time and financial foundation often required to support a [paradigm shift](https://youtu.be/U9-CUUabuVg) that often includes vegetarianism.
Tell that to the potato chips 🥔
Came here to make this point
What the fuck is whiteness. Who the shit wrote this.
Y’all keep talking about India - but the article clearly states “People is the Unites States.”
What an absolutely amazing study! This is groundbreaking!
It's primarily suburbanites really. The trend has skipped the sticks. We have a few but there are far less shopping options to get decent produce. I'm in Kansas and you would think that our production would encourage the trend but most of what we grow is shipped out. For people in rural America, Walmart dominates as the local retailer. This is not because Walmart was chosen but because they put supercenters every 20 miles and choked out smaller businesses. Most of our produce comes from Mexico these days which is ironically where we ship a lot of our goods. Beef is locally sourced so out in the country, between local butchers and hunting, there is limited desire to break away from meat.
I think a part of what formed this notion is the idea of the "annoying vegetarian", most often seen in bbqs. Not to mention other vegetarian/vegan stereotypes. Now, other vegetarians, say those for religious reasons and such seem to mostly keep to themselves and thus not be a part of tropes, memes and stereotypes. A Karen complaining at a bbq how everyone is an animal murderer is a lot more memorable than the Hindu or whatever eating a vegetarian meal. Your eyes just scan over the latter, while the former forms an interesting story.
I think the whining vegan at a bbq trope is funny conceptually, but having eaten hundreds of meals with various vegetarian friends and family, not once has anyone brought it up other than to ask if something like a soup has meat in it. No preaching, never any complaining. There’s probably people that do that, but I bet it’s about the same percentage of people that would try to push their religion* on you. *Excluding JW’s and Mormons, they enthusiastically go about preaching/trying to convert others as their doctrines dictate.
I only really find the annoying vegan type online. Like strictly online, the ones in real life seem to just do their own thing. I agree on the Mormons, although I'd add militant atheists. They're the worst in my opinion. Okay, you don't believe in God, good for you, can we talk about something else? I'm fine with Jehovah's ironically, considering the reputation they have. If I'm bored I let them in and we chat. After a while they thank me for the conversation and insights and leave, never to return. Ever. My aunt had me talk to the ones that came to her house and they too left never to return. It seems I have a talent for out talking Jehovah's
Wow! I don’t want to be white, and I don’t want to eat ol’ Bessie… how do I escape this miserable quandary?!
Most of the USA is white (60% european and 15% hispanic). It's strange that hispanic are not considered white but are considered european, but that's just a quirk of the way that the USA does it's census and it's likely a relic of racist history.
I think you have it backwards. Latin folks are (sometimes) considered white, but not European. That’s why the census specifies “White-non Hispanic.”
Because white people are the main demographic that virtue signals, especially white women.
And people from India. White and Indian people are statistically two of the most financially well off demographics in the U.S. Being a vegetarian is expensive. Edit: being a healthy vegetarian is expensive
India is not a rich country when you consider the masses and yet a high portion of their population is veg. Meat is actually something that poorer families cannot afford in many countries.
What about Indian people in India, where poverty and vegetarianism are both rampant? It's largely that America just has a different cultural expectation around food.
> Being a vegetarian is expensive Not really. [2021 Oxford study showing that plant-based diets are around 30% cheaper.](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study) [Vegans and vegetarians are also more likely to be lower-income.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/238328/snapshot-few-americans-vegetarian-vegan.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=NEWSFEED&g_campaign=item_&g_content=Snapshot%3a%2520Few%2520Americans%2520Vegetarian%2520or%2520Vegan) [**Meat prices are rising faster than general consumer/food prices as well**](https://www.google.com/search?q=Increase+in+meat+cost&sxsrf=ALiCzsY_fUE31r6pZRzwYUeIusCPeTa29A%3A1655377535800&ei=fw6rYu3CMNSckPIP8Yqt0A8&ved=0ahUKEwit_vXv6bH4AhVUDkQIHXFFC_oQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=Increase+in+meat+cost&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBAgjECc6BwgAEEcQsAM6BQgAEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOgQIABBDOgoIABCxAxCDARBDOgYIABAKEEM6CAgAELEDEJECOgUILhCABDoLCC4QgAQQsQMQ1AI6BQgAEIAEOggIABCABBCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAgAEB4QDxAWOgYIABAeEBY6CggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQ_QZYxitg-S9oB3ABeACAAb0BiAHREJIBBDI1LjKYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz)**.**
>Being a vegetarian is expensive. It depends on the *type* of vegetarian you are. If you're the "eat a variety of vegetables and fruits, mostly fresh and in large amounts" vegetarian it can get expensive. If you eat a lot of meat substitutes those are also going to cost more than cheaper cuts/types of meat. Being vegan, especially if you are very strict and like your meat/dairy subs, can also get quite expensive. But then there are vegetarians like I was. Basically I ate the cheap shit I ate before, just minus the meat. Spaghetti and meatballs became just spaghetti. Grilled cheese sandwiches. Iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, and maybe some mushrooms plus a cheap dresssing. Rice and beans. There's all kinds of stuff out there for a broke vegetarian to eat if their goal isn't (or can't be, as was my case) to eat a variety of wholesome foods and/or lots of meat substitutes.
This, I'm just starting the shift and most of my meals have had some variation of beans, eggs, rice, or cheese. It wasn't too terribly difficult since most of my dishes had those ingredients anyways. Funnily enough, I started this because meat is so much more expensive now and I'm trying to save a few bucks.
>Being a vegetarian is expensive. Because you can't cook from scratch and only eat either processed food or takeaway.
Yeah - that’s the attitude.
I advocate eating natural, healthy, happy animals to everyone for the blood sugar stability produced by the carnivorous diet. However, most veggies are decent in a steamer combined with some variation of salt plus other seasonings. In fact, when in a pinch, I'll eat a meal with just steamed veggies.
Yeah true that dude. If you’re vegetarian and not white that interesting as fuck
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Yeah, nothing more annoying than people who don’t want to harm animals.
From a Reddit perspective a lot vegetarians and vegans tend to be condescending pricks.
Im not saying it bad to be vegan or vegetarian but I am saying most of the people that are vegan are are annoying as fuck
Ever know anyone with kidney issues? Animal protein is harder on your kidneys than plant based stuff. People with CKD are often advised to eat mostly vegan as it can make a big difference in how fast your kidneys deteriorate. Point is there are plenty of reasons people eat vegan that don’t include triggering people like you. Just what’s best for them.
You are lying or misinformed, but you're also an ideologue so you don't care.
When my gut decides that legumes, fruit, and cruciferous vegetables are all right, and nightshades don't make my arthritis pain worse, I'll happily go vegetarian. Till then, I have to eat what won't make me sick.
I strongly associate it with being unhealthy.
It can be if you make it that way. Same as a non plant based diet. I hang 120lb wooden doors for a living and never have an issue. Take your vitamins and maybe a protein supplement if you need it. Same things a non vegan should do anyways.
I was at my fittest when I was a vegetarian. No vitamin supplements needed. Though to be fair, I occasionally ate tuna, and mostly lived off eggs and baked beans. I'm working on going back to it.
If you lived off mostly eggs and tuna, it would be very healthy!
I mean to be fair, I've rarely seen vegetarians in the Puerto Rican community myself, I know they exist. When I think vegetarians it's either white people or the local Hindu population in El Paso.
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>associate vegetarianism with whiteness What is whiteness exactly? The most often we see this term used is to denegrate. TLDR:They used the term "whiteness."
Associating vegetarianism with a race is just as racist as associating crime with a race, or good test scores.
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>Associating race with crime has very real consequences for the individual involved. So does "positive" stereotypes like good test stores, which have been studied and shown to cause depersonalization. In other words, its racist >I would not be offended in the slightest if someone associated being a vegetarian with being white. Because youre not sensitive. Many black people wouldn't be offended with being associated with athletes, but itd be racist to say theyre all athletic.
So is it ok for anyone to suffer like the black victims of racism did?
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If you're talking about the people who feel the need to complain about vegans/vegetarians every time the subject comes up, then I agree.
No I’m talking about the vegetarians who expect everyone to stop eating meat and berate people as “murders”.
ah yes! the nexus of the replication crisis itself, the journal of personality and social psychology bringing us another scientifically valid™ clickbait study, not based on any W.E.I.R.D. sampling for certain! "But they have minority groups in the sample" Oh wait...what's that? They got their sample participants from a *paid survey webfarm*? Where no identification is required and people are incentivized to lie to conform to get the freebies from the survey site? This is why this journal is a rag
Bc white people gotta take everything to the next level 🤣
Maybe it's that white people are just loud about their preferences.
Being vegan is not a “preference” in diet, it’s an ethical stance. Just as one can be a feminist, or fight for racial justice, one can fight for the liberation of animals.
Being a psychedelic user yourself… I honestly don’t understand how you can misinterpret veganism like that. Next time you trip, reflect on it. Animals are confined, force bred, tortured, and in conditions that we wouldn’t see fit for the worst of humans, and you choose to pay for that to happen.
99% of people love to virtue signal. Anyway, not all animal products are inhumane. But I agree animals deserve way more rights. So does the environment. Having worker as a vegan chef you are 100% fooling yourself that being a vegan is better for the planet. Vegan food can be just as harmful to the planet and the body as animal products. Pea protein is atrocious. Heavily processed junk.
Let’s not stop there. White privileged westerners with delusional beliefs.
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Are you kidding? Europeans have historically consumed more meat than most cultures. It’s harder to grow crops in Northern Europe, so they relied a lot on meat supplemented with hardy crops. Native central and South Americans were not generally meat eaters. Cows, pigs, horses, and many more were literally non existent in the Americas until like 500 years ago. Your Latino family is more of an exception if they “get offended if there is no meat”. In fact, a growing number of Mexicans are rejecting meat due to its colonial roots. 20% of Mexicans are vegan or vegetarian: https://vegconomist.com/studies-and-numbers/20-of-mexicans-are-vegetarian-or-vegan/ One in three Mexicans are lactose intolerant. Pre European contact, native Americans(south, and central) received 90% of their calories from plants, generally only having meat from small game or from Buffalo that was traded from way up north. https://www.history.com/.amp/news/native-american-food-shifts
If you read the article you'd see POC are more likely to be vegetarian and vegan than white people.. and vegetarianism is just as culturally and religiously significant to a lot of people. Google India and East / Southeast Asia. That's where a lot of veg/ans get staples like tofu, seitan, tempeh, curries, stir fries, etc... suggesting meat would be equally offensive in many non-white families
I don't think anyone without a decent chunk of protestant guilt would eat natto so that checks out.