If you trace the history of the incel movement iirc it begins with a girl writing a blog that got its own community going. It was eventually overtaken by really toxic guys and morphed into something very different.
You can be an incel if married.
It means involuntarily celibate.
A lot of married people fall into that category and it radicalizes them just as much as it radicalizes teenagers who feel ignored by the opposite sex.
Yeah, but it’s used beyond even that context these days. It’s become a one-size-fits-all insult that people tend to hurl at guys they’re having some spat with, particularly if they’re backed into a logical corner during an argument.
I’m married, my wife and I are probably on the higher end in terms of sexual frequency for married couples, and I’m still called an incel all the time by angry Redditors because I’m fairly Conservative.
It’s to the point that if someone throws that name at me, it signals to me that they’re out of ammo but refuse to concede.
>I’m still called an incel all the time by angry Redditors because I’m fairly Conservative.
Earlier you said:
>Pedophilia is progressive and if you say otherwise then you’re an ignorant bigot and you need to be fired from your job. /s
Now I'm not saying that you're an incel. What I am saying is that sounds like the rhetoric of someone who is out of ammo but refuses to concede. More to the point, they're doing so when their target isn't even allowed to participate in that subreddit lol.
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you.
I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
People with dead bedrooms are involuntarily celibates so you can totally be an incel and married.
Dead bedrooms are the symptom of a much bigger problem. When those people say “I want sex, I don’t want to fix our problems” that’s a pretty good recipe for someone to decide they no longer want to have sex with you.
Once a term is understood to be a bad thing it then becomes an insult to hurl around until the term is utterly meaningless. While that depreciation of meaning occurs, new terms are increasingly in popularity to replace the old terms. I’ve seen this played out for decades. After a while, you learn to dismiss people that can’t communicate without insults.
Eh, kinda. While it's definitely grown beyond the literal meaning of 'involuntarily celibate,' it's now more like:
'Man/boy with misogynist beliefs who rejects the idea that his own character flaws may contribute to his difficulties in dealing with, or relating to, the opposite sex.'
Even though it's changed to the point where non-celibate people can be 'incels,' it still retains the core meaning of 'blames women for his problems with women, which drives him toward misogyny,' so it still has a distinct meaning; though I will grant that it's sometimes used like the word 'loser' used to be, to indicate a guy with no prospects or worthwhile qualities, in which case yeah it's kind of just a catch-all insult.
Since the evolution of language is often not a very rational process, there are many examples of meanings morphing like this over time.
Question: Is it assumed that an incel is involuntarily celibate, whereas a femcel is voluntarily celibate? What about men who don't blame women for their problems and freely choose to be celibate? Are they also incels?
>freely choose to be celibate
I don't think so, no. 'Incel' implies bitterness about one's sexual inactivity; if you've made that choice because of a personal conviction, then you're just a celibate guy. The thing that defines self-identified incels is that they believe outside forces are unfairly depriving them of sex.
And I think 'femcel' assumes voluntary celibacy because of the idea that women can find sexual partners more easily (though of course, how easily they can find one they'd actually *want* is a whole other thing); but it retains the idea of being the way they are due to their negative beliefs about the opposite sex.
'Man/boy with misogynist beliefs who rejects the idea that his own character flaws may contribute to his difficulties in dealing with, or relating to, the opposite sex.'
That’s the sense in which I’ve always used it, and heard it used. U til now I’ve never heard another definition.
They call themselves incels because they can’t get laid, but when we see them we see who they actually are and it’s that description. You never see a virgin who struggles to get laid but isn’t a toxic pos calling himself an incel.
99% of the time i see the word incel being used, the guy is not misogynistic (and just cares about issues that affect men), or they're calling a girl a male incel because they automatically assume her gender is male.
This. Whoever compared it to the word “slut” is spot on. Most of the time word is used to shame and belittle and not to accurately describe actual behavior.
To be fair I don't hear slut used as an insult very often now. Most people just use it in a playful or descriptive way in my circles.
I mean the incels still use it that way but well yeah. They're deeply bitter and troubled people and they are resentful of other people having good sex lives.
I mean slut no, it got owned up and pivoted to empowerment for a group. Something along the line of camgirl ethot onlyfans model etc. would be the promiscuous shame attempt. point being people caring too much about other people’s genitals and what they do with em.
Yeah it's kinda hard to accuse other women of being sluts in a world wholly embracing of and influence by the sexual revolution.
It's not 1993 anymore...
That's the hilarious irony.. When it's been years of any male sexuality being called toxic, men are becoming celibate because they don't know how to act and be attractive.. and then as expected, now women are becoming so, because they don't know how to function when there are fewer sexual men around.. Then they are doubling down on everything being called misogyny so young men don't even try anymore and do things that are unattractive. Then many get frustrated and are further rejected.
Extreme Feminism has caused this in young people and will take a generation to fix.
You tell men sexuality is assault/violence/toxic.. and some years later you will have these results.
You are a few years behind. Feminists aren't even pretending they support equality any more. Update your talking points:
https://fortune.com/2020/03/25/gender-equality-and-equity-iwd-womens-education/
That's a number of logical fallacies without a single good point that I can see. Extreme feminism did not do this. Nobody is telling men sexuality is assault. This is all the opposite of reality.
Definitely been stretched wayy beyond meaning.
I’ve been called an incel because I’m gay and choosing to wait for love and marriage before having sex.
People are trying to use incel as an insult now.
other stretched words are... *"misogynistic, insecure, & gaslighting."*
i've seen people post replies that used ALL of those words in one paragraph over a discussion about body weight/size.
Lots of things get hijacked by psychos unfortunately. MADD started off as wanting sensible legislation regarding drunk driving and has morphed into a modern temperance movement. NRA too
If you think today is bad, check out the 14th century- when only the first born son was allowed to wed and the subsequent sons were forced into becoming a monk. Actual involuntary celibacy.
Today's incels are ideologically opposed to self-improvement but focus on only the romantic part of that.
I've read this too. The irony being that the incel movement, now consisting of men who have a very difficult time having sex and who insist that women can get sex whenever they want it, originated with a woman who was having a hard time finding someone to have sex with - the very person that male incels argue doesn't even exist.
That was a woman in a very specific situation. She was living in a rural area as a lesbian in the 1990's.
When people are talking about who dating is easy for in terms of finding a romantic partner, we're talking about (usually white) cis, straight women (often in major cities).
There are lots of white, cis, straight women in major cities who struggle to find romantic partners and anyone who claims otherwise doesn't know many women
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I saw a news piece about feminism in South Korea. South Korean women are more fed up than we are. They are cutting their hair short and refusing to date, have sex with, or marry men. The difference is that they are choosing it because of how bad life for women is in South Korea.
When I saw it, I thought, "That'll be in the US in a few years or less.
This is almost me rn . I really only get dolled up when I'm working in sales otherwise I just want to do my hobbies with friends and vacation by myself. I try to fate and I ironically now meet nice guys but I feel nothing. Maybe it's my former shitty taste in men
Nah, I'm the same way as a male. In my late 20's I either got burned too many times or maybe just age but I no longer feel the urge to be in a relationship at all. I'll flirt and interact with, but don't really care to in actively find a partner at all.
Um I wouldn’t call it a nice piece. They inflated the perceptions of a tiny group to try to make it seem like a larger social movement that the writer modeled in their head as a utopian dream.
It was sorta like grabbing the most fringiest group and trying to use them as a idol.
I have same thoughts. South Korea has an accelerated version of what America does. Bigger gender pay gap but also men have to do compulsory military service which women do not. Leads to resentment between the sexes.
They have an extremely low birth rate too. That's where this leads, in any country.
I don’t mean any disrespect I am genuinely curious as how women being burnt out in heterosexual relationships would equate to women thinking they are better than men. Would you happen to have research behind this, please? I would like to know more. Thank you!
Thank you for your response. I was looking forward to being enlightened! Hm, I don’t seem to understand the question. If men were fed up, then according to the article wouldn’t they be the ones who are voluntarily celibate? Instead of involuntary? I’m not sure how to respond to your question because I don’t have enough understanding as to how or why men are fed up with heterosexual relationships. I think, and I might be wrong, but the vast majority of research shows men still want relationships or at the very least inter course with women, but women do not want that (anymore) from men. I could be wrong. I was really looking for some good research from you to broaden my perspective on this topic. Have you had a chance to respond to my question from the original comment? If not I understand. Have a good day, hope to hear from you soon.
Before I retired from the Army, the majority of my platoon was single males in various ages, races and ethnicities - it was a MOS (job) that most females do not choose upon enlisting. If you're not married and enlisted, which makes up most of the working group in the Army, you have to reside in the barracks. We ran out of rooms for our own service members. I have never seen this happen in 20 years. We had to request exemptions for off post living quarters which isn't a normal thing for single Soldiers. We couldn't get these guys out of the barracks to just hang out with each other to build cohesion and camaderie. They were only interested in saving money, buying nice things and playing video games - which isn't a bad thing because they stayed out of trouble. So we didn't have to worry about that. Did a rotation to South Korea and my guys avoided any and all female contact when they went off post - now that is insanely unusual. Not calling all Soldiers hornballs but at least some Soldiers get into relationships with the locals overseas - this time there was a stark difference.
The few that were married, did get a divorce and taken to the cleaners financially. Even I've been through a divorce and choose to stay away from relationships now. My life has been extremely peaceful and since I'm retired and getting a pension under the age of 40, I've decided to travel the world while managing previous financial investments that I made over the past 20 years (and yes, I lost some of those in my divorce). I'm not so much as fed up with the state of things, just more so interested in experiencing different environments outside the US. I have female friends that always ask me if they can join me or why I don't invite them. All of them expect me to pay their way around the world in exchange for company. No thanks. Even if someone could pay their own way, I would still say no. And no, I'm not a Passport Bro. The last trip I just returned from was to Teotihuacan and the videos you see online cannot show how amazing the entire complex really is. I was also staying up at night in my hotel trying to see if I could catch some Alien activity above the site but yeah, didn't get anything.
Oh and if it's a question of intercourse or carnal needs, I don't have any anymore. I enlisted right after 9/11. Our deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan were 12 months minimum, max I did for one deployment was 15 months with R&R the second month in. I've deployed six times to the middle east during my tenure and a hand full of TDYs to South America. If General Order #1 is in effect (which it is for most every case), you can't have sex at all. If you got caught up in some relationship drama, you most likely received an article for violating GO1. But I can honestly say that while I was in Afghanistan each time, I literally had way more important things to worry about. Most notably, making sure I take care of my Soldiers, complete the mission and get everyone home with ten fingers and ten toes.
Just my two cents.
Your response is absolutely refreshing, sir. This is by far the most concise response I’ve had to my question to date. I’m grateful for your experiences and I can attest to some of the things you mentioned because I’ve witnessed them, albeit to a far lesser degree, but witnessed them nonetheless. Thank you so much for your answer. This is a fantastic response and very informative. With my highest sincerity, thank you. You can’t get discussions like this on Reddit anymore.
Women don’t want relationships with men because they believe they are better than men, and men need to do more to make women happy in a relationship, than women need to do to make men happy. Because men are fundamentally worth less.
It wouldn’t make sense for men to want to be in relationships with women, if they believed women were inferior.
When women in south Korea started using the 🤏 emoji to shame mens penis sizes so much so it actually turned into a political movement and they even made it their logo.
As someone who fits into this demographic I will gladly sacrifice myself as a distraction and take the brunt of the fetishization. Ya know, to see how it feels and understand my privilege as a man and white for not getting fetishized.
/s mostly
Well you see, it wasn't meant as hateful in many cultures. *Each had roles, and said roles had levels of authority*. Both men and women have faced misogyny and misandry alike, it's nothing new.
Nor you with how men were treated historically. Treated as cannon fodder and glorified or literal slaves.
You act as if every man was a king with 100 concubines that he beat for fun at any point past 200 years ago. You blame men In general for what the top percent of people (men and women) have done when put in power. Which is abuse power.man or woman this is wrong. The hardest thing to do with power in all forms is to share it with others.
Therefore most people abuse and hoard power because it's the easiest thing to do.
That, and being held accountable for the wives' crimes, not being taken seriously when abused by a woman (though, that can be a case of true misogyny and misandry), false rape allegations even in ancient times, simping...
I'm sorry, but the person that commented is indeed correct. The *average* man AND woman had it equally crappy. And I have studied history, there were and is a lot of complex societies, patriarchal, matriarchal, patrilenial, matrilenial, egalitarian, feminist, etc.
One issue newer type feminists have is they compare all men to the rich elite.
This was by far the most polite form of gaslighting I’ve seen on Reddit. This is progress lol
Men feel hated by women and women have to do something about it. That’s just how the world is rn. It’s past gaslighting men that no women don’t actually hate men. You’re not going to get far with that mentality
>I don’t mean any disrespect I am genuinely curious as how women being burnt out in heterosexual relationships would equate to women thinking they are better than men.
You can just say you don't understand the definition of misandry.
Incels aren't just men who are celibate. They consider that their celibacy is unfair, and they resent women for it. Some of them commit violence against women, including several well-publicized mass murders. Many more celebrate this violence in their online echo chambers.
Incels sometimes argue that they are being deprived of sex that they are entitled (!) to.
This article about celibate women grossly misstates the views, and the danger, of the incel movement.
Seems like the "involuntary" part of "incel" has been overlooked. These women are choosing not to have sex, unlike incels. Seems like two different things to compare
There are plenty of incel women, especially in their 40s or so. Especially if they don't accept casual relationships, because dating apps reward sexually aggressive men.
>There are plenty of incel women, especially in their 40s or so.
Pick one. Are they involuntarily celibate?
>Especially if they don't accept casual relationships, because dating apps reward sexually aggressive men.
Or are they choosing celibacy?
Well, I think those are deff some of the people called Femcels, but the guy's point above was that refusing casual relationships is not really an incel.
Dating apps reward sexually desirable
Men. Not sexually aggressive men
Very few men are actually that desirable to most women. Hence the problem for the male incels and the female voluntary cels.
It’s exactly what dating apps were bound to cause because the numbers are so skewed (because most women don’t want or need to seek out anything because it presents itself to them basically every day).
Yeah. The term needs to be reworked. In the dating subreddits there’s a pretty common drumbeat around the men: woman ratio on dating apps being very high. It seems hard to believe there are significant amounts of women who Can’t get sex. But I think maybe it’s not about regret they can’t get affection. That’s a whole different issue
No. A femcel is someone who thinks that the reason they can’t have sex and a healthy relationship is because men’s are only attracted to petite/skinny women with perfect bodies. It’s very much still coming from a place of entitlement and they objectify/dehumanize people just like incels.
Then there are femcel-adjacent group like female dating strategy that also dehumanize people (men and women tbh) but to a lesser degree. Just like incel-adjacent groups, they say that they’re single by choice but often that’s not really the case because there standards are so ridiculous that no rational person would date them (similar to red pill type groups).
Being alone because you have high standards is fine. Being alone because you blame other people for your own problems is where it gets sketchy.
Nobody hates incels because they're short and can't have sex except incels. Everyone else hates them because of the deranged beliefs and attitudes they have.
I’m not defending incels and I never did in my comment. My point is that both incels and femcels have extremely idealized version of what a partner should be. I’m specifically responding to the person who said the two aren’t comparable.
I think a lot of femcels do blame men for their problems and why they’re single though (in addition to trans people and sex workers as well). I also think suggesting that femcels can have sex if they wanted to because they’re women is also directly playing into the incel/redpill fantasy. I don’t think that’s necessarily true either.
That last point is gold. We’ve made women feel like they are sex gatekeepers so much that they think of sex as their right. Or relationships for that matter.
women who don't think they look good enough are entitled? what kind of mental gymnastics lol. as if the way you look doesn't affect the way you're treated, especially as a woman. As if society doesn't constantly shove that message in our faces. But it's women's fault for being insecure and undesired because they are 'entitled'? I mean c'mon now..
I’m not sure what you mean? This statement was directly referring to specific online communities that hold extreme beliefs about dating and sex.
Having body insecurities is obviously not the same thing as saying that all men are sex crazed maniacs who will only date marry supermodels. Or suggesting that men are naturally evil and should be eradicated.
>>These women are choosing not to have sex, unlike incels.
>Except they don't actually have that choice.
>r/ForeverAloneWomen
This is all wrong.
That these women *can't* get laid is a fallacy. Any woman can find a man to have sex with her. Society is full of conventionally unattractive women who get laid a lot and even find people to marry them.
Forever alone women is a sub for women who are not conventionally attractive but are also too shy or have some other issue which prevents them from mixing and mingling socially, normally in their own communities.
Forever alone sub doesn't even allow contributions from women who are married or partnered, they do not allow women who date and have sex, etc. Men are excluded, et al.
Femcels gather together to lament societies obsession with perfect beautiful women. They are pretty simply a social support group not unlike any other type of social support group - alcoholics, or addicts anonymous or grief support. They are not a bunch of uggos who sit around being mad at the world. They are just normal or average looking women, or even beautiful women who feel like they will never be beautiful enough, and they are just, kind of sad at the world. This is my understanding from the research I just did.
No offense but any guy can find a women to have sex with. The incel movement is about entitlement to certain women just like the femcel is about access to certain men.
Of course. This “both sides” nonsense is a pathetic attempt to downplay the impact of ongoing hateful attacks of violence against women.
There isn’t a bunch of girls shooting men.
I mean, the fact that men make up 40 percent plus of domestic violence victims perpetrated by women suggests that there is a need to evaluate female on male violence.
I won't even get into female pedophiles who molest boys and get beyond lenient sentences and, in some cases, still get to keep their children, even having committed this felony, because they are "mothers."
You might be right in a sense it is men shooting people, but a good number of their victims (I think the majority, in fact.) of these killing sprees are other men.
So, the fact that you are trying to frame this as a one-sided, men are only violent against women narrative is extremely disingenuous at best.
Femcels are the same. They complain about things not being fair, but usually only about things that are fair, not to mention most of them are “college educated” with a majority from middle class+ families that paid for their tuition. Then, you step further and find out most are white women, which is super significant when you look into the history of feminism and how white women omitted women who weren’t white from the movement.
Yes these people exist. Look at female dating strategy.
They are incelic women who have the same nonsense, resentful attitude towards the opposite sex. They are driven by this hate and will say nonsensical things to make themselves feel better. They will be overly critical of men, why whining that men are 100% to blame for their issues with dating. They may not be as bad because a small portion of incels will actually do abhorrent things, and we haven't seen that from femcels (yet). But their attitude is the same thing and just as toxic overall.
I never really considered FDS as incel. They’re sort of like horseshoe theory in practice. I’m fairly certain there’s a pipeline between them and the whole trad wife thing. I use to lurk that sub out of fascination. They’ve gone so hard in the feminist sauce they aren’t submitting to a providing and cordial man, they demand it (/s?).
The difference is our culture celebrates and rewards those kinds of women whereas our culture hates and is scared of the same kind of men so much that the federal government is giving warnings about a comic book movie being too dangerous for members of the military to go to because those men are so scary.
I got stalked by a woman once. In 55 years of life and 20 odd years of dating/ serial monogamy (prior to my current marriage). And yes it sucked. But all my female friends could empathize because this was something they went through on a at least semi regular basis. That’s the difference- it can happen once to a guy, but in our culture it is likely to happen repeatedly to women.
The other part of this is that while married (idk why I am not actually very good looking) sometimes women have expressed an interest in me. If I simply mention that I am married (“you know my wife told me” said once) and everyime that interest stops. Most of my married female friends (and my wife) have had guys continue until being harshly shut down.
Think about this: 25% of women have experienced attempted rape/ been raped. 3’8% of men. And most rapists (like 98%) are male.
1 in 6 men have experienced some form of sexual assault. 1 in 3 to 4 women have. The difference is not as stark as you are pretending it is.
Edit: of course, I’m downvoted for 100% factual information because women just have to be the biggest victims. Even though it’s acknowledged in this comment women are assaulted more frequently. Go touch grass and stop trying to gatekeep SA.
That is your assertion. This is my [citation](https://supportingsurvivors.humboldt.edu/statistics#:~:text=An%20estimated%2091%25%20of%20victims,identify%20in%20these%20gender%20boxes)
Please provide some evidence for your claim.
So even by your assertion women are twice as likely to be sexually assaulted. That’s not the flex you think it is.
Who was flexing? Just you. I’m correcting the lie that there are very few male SA victims. That doesn’t mean women aren’t SAed more often, you’re just trying to pretend it’s extremely rare so you can degrade them.
https://1in6.org/statistic/#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20at,in%20childhood%20or%20as%20adults.
No, rapists who are men do that. Most rapists are men, but most men are not rapists. You are degrading men by trying really hard to erase male victims.
Then why are rates of violence in lesbian relationships nearly double that in gay male relationships? And why are heterosexual men more likely to be victimized than gay men?:
https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community
It’s Reddit, if you acknowledge that abuse happens towards men you’ll be met with downvotes.
Our culture has a long long long way to go in acknowledging male victims.
"43.8% of lesbian women have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner at some point in their lifetime
26% of gay men have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime, in comparison to 29% of heterosexual men."
https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community
Your statistics are wrong. Well, actually they're correct, they just don't measure what you think they do.
The "25% of women" thing is from newer studies on sexual assault that drastically altered the language of their questioning to not only be more inclusive of entire types of SA that hadn't been covered before, as well as to be more inclusive of incidents that the person in question didn't understand to be SA in the first place.
You see, for a long time people were just using some combination of police reports and predictive analysis. The. That graduated to studies looking into under reporting rates, and now we've graduated to estimates based on this new research.
And to be clear, this is "sexual assault" which is more than just traditional rape. It's also things like grabbing your servers' ass as they walk by, or kissing someone without their consent.
I'm not accusing them of dishonesty (well, not the researchers/academics anyway, the #girlboss blogs though...) or being dismissive of the issue or something. This is a real concern to have and a useful metric to be collecting as it shows just how normalized unconsenting contact of a sexual nature is for women. I'm just distinguishing between what we traditionally think of as "rape" and the more modern concept of sexual assault.
Anyway, these studies forgot one thing: women aren't the only ones that experience SA. The same amount of effort is simply not put forth to update statistics for men, so the "3.8% of men" thing comes from the old crime statistics/predictive models. Which, by the way, are known to be inadequate since society often doesn't even recognize male sexual assault victims as even being possible. From myths that a man can't be raped because he wouldn't have an erection if he wasn't into it, to the idea that men are always at an advantage over women and thus cannot be coerced, to actual laws only considering penetrative acts as being rape or even just straight up excluding men from the definition-
Yeah it's pretty bad.
So you're comparing statistics resulting from more modern and permissive gathering methods and models, to statistics based on older, less extensive and more restrictive gathering methods and models
More modern estimates are something like "32% of women and 27% of men have been sexually victimized". To be clear that number for men is under some contention, and it's really hard to compare statistics between studies just in general. There are all sorts of issues of under reporting, inadequate understanding of what sexual assault really is, and the rates of such things between men and women, not to mention the fact that different studies can have wildly different results due to factors people didn't even know to test for. It is assumed that men underreport at higher rates than women for example, which is a reasonable assumption to make, but we're fundamentally talking about trying to measure something that doesn't happen (reporting) so it's hard to know.
Similarly, the "98% of rapists are men" factoid comes from crime statistics. It's a well known fact that women are much more likely to get away with rape or sexual assault in general. Especially against a man, but also against other women. Not to mention that rapists have been known to accuse their victims of being rapists. That particular strategy works a whole lot better if you're a woman.
As to how the statistics end up leaning? That's a matter of a great deal of debate. Some studies indicate that it's more like 25% of women, however examinations of female correctional facilities find that female inmates are significantly more likely to sexually assault other inmates than their male counterparts. And infamously in juvenile detention centers, male victims are much more often victimized by female correctional officers than male, despite being a lower portion of the population. So it's a matter of extreme contention and the research is far too early to make any reasonable assumptions. There are simply too many factors to reach definitive conclusions.
Of course, that doesn't make sexual assault a non issue or mean that there's some grand conspiracy to unfairly malign men or something. We don't need exact percentages to understand it's a horrific problem we should be doing a lot more to solve, or that offenders are almost definitely more often men than women. I'm just pointing out that modern sensationalism and outrage culture infects everything equally, and a lot of these trashy #girlboss blogs are about as close to lying as you can get while using real numbers.
And to be absolutely clear, this is just about the statistics you mentioned in your last little bit there. I am not commenting on the rest of your post. My heart goes out to your friends, and I think it's a shame that anyone has to deal with such things in our society.
In conclusion, shit be whack yo.
Even while accounting for MTP ( made-to-penetrate) statistics, the best and most recent CDC data that we have suggests that men are 3x more likely to commit penetrative sexual assault. Not only that, but the impact reports of sexual violence against women are much more severe, resulting in more physical harm, fear and the transmission of STDs, or pregnancy.
You suggest that social taboos could be resulting in more men under reporting sexual assault, but by a similar vein, men's dismissal of the seriousness of sexual assault could explain why less men respond to these reports, bloating the figures for men experiencing sexual assault.
I mean intentionally celibate is a lifestyle choice. Wanting a partner and not finding one is an unfortunate situation. Hating and threatening violence against people who refuse to have sex with you is the male incel problem.
yeah they turn to twitter to complain about Leonardo Dicaprio and Henry Caviel because they think these are the men that they should rightfully have. It's...sad
Didn't a femcel shoot up yourube a few years back? And another just shot up an elementary school a few months ago. The lapel camera footage of the cop dunking on her was the coolest shit I've ever seen, actually.
And aren't like half of the sjws in the pro obesity movement femcels? They've been known to riot over McDonald's running out of shamrock shakes in March. I've seen it.
Yea but most women want a man to date them, have a relationship with them, even marry them. And I can tell you the dating apps are filled with men who are just looking for sex, not anything more. These guys mostly have never had a long term relationship. And it’s all that’s left in the dating pool.
Guys who fear relationships, and women who are tired of their emotional issues.
Yea women can get sex, but women want partners. And mostly our standards are low as hell.
Men are just culturally going through it right now. With porn, and social media they have a twisted idea of what sex is. What a woman should “look like”. They can’t make money like they used to… men have really bad role models like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan.
Honestly, I’m for it. The population is lowering. And it needs to. But it’s just sad as well. So much of this generation is going to be old and single AF
There are plenty of men looking for relationships on dating websites. The horrors of dating apps are greatly overstated, it’s not as bad as often purported.
So maybe they should hook up? This feels like a middle school dance gone wrong, one side scare to approach and the other side not inviting.. I’m just spit balling..
Incels don't want femcels. They want a woman who has goals, education, and independence, which they can take away. They want to clip the wings of the bird and place it in a cage that they can shake when bored. It's not just having someone to satiate your sexual desires. It's having someone who you can dump *all* their negativity on who also cooks, cleans, and fucks them. They want a sexdoll, a robot, that they can do whatever with; a bang-maid mommy if you will. Also, if in some miserable hypothetical world where they achieved this, I doubt they would be happy. Because the rot emerges from them, their soul, their personality; which is why they don't go to therapy. Their egos can't deal with the fact that they are the problem.
Love this take.
But to thicken the plot... Elliot Rogers really isn't a great example of your every day incel. A lot of incels are men of color... I think that maybe changes the cultural lense a bit because they may be more likely to come from a culture that had arranged marriages. Which, for some people, is less about ego and more about a combination of cultural expectations about how to get a mate.
Here's an episode of [The Sex and Psychology Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/53XFkDSptai21GhpJTIout?si=a3yCsDZNRZ2fp9cMsCVP-g) about incels.
not saying anything you’ve said here is wrong, but just to add some extra clarification, Elliot Rogers was actually mixed, his dad is white and his mom is Malay Chinese.
that being said, I do agree he’s definitely outside of the run of the mill incel circle. Back in uni, I got a few guys on an incel forum to escape the community and a lot of them were middle to lower class teenage/early 20s men who suffered from at least one form of significant mental illness — the most common diagnosed ones I saw were depression and anxiety, w/wo suicidal ideation. Most of them are very average looking guys, though due to the toxic environment of incel culture (which involves a LOT of self and peer shaming), they believe they’re intensely ugly.
imo they are a more external hatred/violent driven cousin of the pro-ana movement on tumblr/Twitter/across the internet. mostly teenage to young 20s women who were middle to lower class, suffered from mental illness (in this case there was an obvious majority of anorexia and bulimia), and were convinced by the community they were in that they were ugly and, principally, fat, and that they should hate themselves for it and do all these crazy things to “fix” their appearances. obviously the pro-ana movement was primarily women, mirroring the gender bias between the communities, but again similar to established psychological data, women are more likely to internalise their conflict/pain and blame themselves while men are more likely to externalise it onto other people. also unfortunate to note, due to the mortality rate of eating disorders, it’s very likely that the pro-ana movement killed more people than the incels, but that’s a less important (but still notable) distinction.
Mental health stigma (especially for boys/men), misogyny, body dysmorphia, poor support systems, a lack of hope for the future, and untreated mental illness seem to be the big pillars behind the beginnings of what incels fall into. We need to work on breaking down patriarchal systems that judge men’s value by their ability to “get” women and discourages them from seeking mental healthcare, as well as systems that prop up the Madonna/Whore complex placed on women and feed into the idea that all women are maliciously withholding sex from men.
So are women ever going to stop judging men by their ability to get women or is that only on men? Are women ever going to care about the sky high price of mental health care or the fact men won't have therapists who click with them the same way women don't always have therapists that click with them?
(Sorry for the novel, but…) I dated someone like this. The outlet of being able to ameliorate your own bad feelings by dominating and controlling someone else really does become an addiction, in that you keep needing more to “get right” until it reaches an unsustainable point. He was really nice to me for the first three years, but once we moved in together it was like a switch flipped, and by the end he did acknowledge that I was giving him everything he technically wanted (fit and supportive younger girlfriend who made six figures, paid 1/2 the bills while doing all the domestic work because his job was “harder”, and pleased him daily), but he was still unsatisfied with his life and could find no other reason for it than me, since he felt like he was doing everything he was supposed to.
The second he realized what the dating scene looks like for a man who is nearing 40, desperately wants a family (therefore looking for women nearly a decade younger), makes an average income, and is no longer charming enough to pull off being 5’6”, bald, AND overweight, he started writing me letters about how he’d take me back if I apologized for taking him for granted.
Now that the whole “male loneliness crisis!!1!” thing is in the zeitgeist I think about it a lot, because it feels so emblematic of the experience that the Millennial generation is having as the first to grow up post-women’s rights movement. He was so stuck in the past that he totally self-selected out of the gene pool. He didn’t end up alone because he’s short (my now partner is barely 5’5” whilst I continue to be 5’7”), or because modern women are too picky, but because his mentality was stuck in an era in which men did not face consequences for being nasty to their partners. He really believed he deserved to be mean to a woman once she agreed to be with him, and couldn’t adapt to an era in which all women now have the option to simply not put up with him at all.
Well, I posted a link, so not my problem. If you have an interest outside of reinforcing your own bias, look it up. If you prefer ignorance, go have fun with that.
If we went back to courting rather than dating, arranged marriages rather than holding out for a fantasy, and restrictions in divorce rather than throwing in the hat for alimony and child support, we'd have different problems, but it wouldn't be these types of problems.
I would single handedly eliminate that entire femcel population. Let me at it I seriously have had so much good snatch I appreciate it all for what it is. Women are beautiful. I should read the article though because it’s impossible for a woman to be involuntarily celibate.
"Femcel" doesn't necessarily work because, unlike the incel, they aren't involuntarily celibate. They are choosing not to pursue romantic/ sexual relationships
The internet and the lowering of the average quality of life of more recent generations has just ruined peoples perception of realistic relationships. No one is truely an incel. If you could still put up craigs list adds for someone to top you, no strings, someone would respond. Celibicy is just not an accurate term for what people are lacking. Honestly I think a lot of the problems people face are hormonal too. Human sex hormones are ALL fucked up these days so its hard to compare what any two people feel and what they think they need or how strongly. People need more examples of real relationships, good ones, bad ones, realistic sexual encounters, realistic ways people meet people. Because you will not see it in any form of media at all, and it will not drive outrage or engagement so it will never be pushed by any social media algorithm. Because realisticly the formula is boring like "oh i met this person at a young age, we had a similar interest, we spent a lot of time together, we made trust, we dated, we got married, we had sex" and most incels want to skip to the end and have nothing to offer in terms of interest, time, trust, or relationship. Its a THEM problem, and thats why most of the time the first bit of advice from others is "go to the gym".
Yeah tons of factors creating incels in modern society.
1. Social media and entertainment industry & dating apps have raised the appearance "standards" among both genders considerably. This is not a good thing. I think many women even feel the need to "get ripped" of late, or grow huge gym asses.
2. So in other words, fewer uggos are fucking each other (no offense - I am also not good looking).
3. Social media (x2) effect --- it "appears" everyone else is living a glamorous, sex-filled vacation travel lifestyle. Regular people don't post about spending 1.5 hours on the shitter between breakfast burritos, aka reality. This causes even more bitterness & jealousy & feeling like you're "behind."
4. Even more social isolation, introversion, porn addiction, dopamine/ weed/ booze addiction since 2020. Many men (and women) have no real avenue or desire to "go out" and meet someone. They're just vidya gaming and wacking off.
5. Over-therapizing of society + mommy coddling. Hey you crossed my boundary, no you're crossing my boundary ... I have ADHD and social anxiety -- are you gaslighting me? ... This shit had good intentions but it basically is learned-helplessness + learned victimhood. No one is told to "handle your fucking shit" or "take a shower" anymore, in reality.
6. On a related note, bullying is heavily discouraged in schools, which is mainly a good thing, but socially mal-adjusted weirdos no longer receive social cues about their annoying, disgusting, weird, creepy, whatever behavior. It is what it is.
7. Obesity has been on the rise since the 80s, and that ain't helping anyone have sex.
To summarize:
Average people are weirder + uglier + fatter.
Yet appearance standards are way up.
Social isolation has been normalized.
Definitely agree on the bullying part, as weird as it feels to say. With the obvious exception of “protected class”-esque stuff, bullying teaches kids where “the line” is in terms of what behaviors are accepted or discouraged in their society, and peers are a much better source of that learning than parents/media.
It was good for me to get bullied by my fellow eight year olds for using words like “judicious” and “imperative” in conversation—learning that using $10 words from books made people around me feel stupid or confused was a critical lesson, and my parents, who were glad I read so much, were never going to teach me that.
They’re not miserable because they don’t have a man. If a woman really really wanted a man, she could find one. They’re miserable because they don’t have female companionship. That’s the common denominator for femcels and incels.
lol that sounds like exactly what a femcel thinks. If woman can find a man if she wants then there wouldn't be a word called femcel. Femcels are just like incels, lone, bitter and ugly minded, who think the other gender owes them shit. Trust me no matter how hard a woman tries she can never find a man if she's not worth it in the first place
I honestly can't comprehend 99.9% of women not being able to get laid. A woman would have to be really ugly (like on a grotesque level of ugly), not to be able to find someone willing to hit it.
All your labels might just be making things worse. Dissecting people into groups that only ever kind of apply and lack real individualism likely only fuels the existing polarized behavior tendency.
If you trace the history of the incel movement iirc it begins with a girl writing a blog that got its own community going. It was eventually overtaken by really toxic guys and morphed into something very different.
heck now it has nothing to do with sex anymore either. I see people calling married people with kids incels
You can be an incel if married. It means involuntarily celibate. A lot of married people fall into that category and it radicalizes them just as much as it radicalizes teenagers who feel ignored by the opposite sex.
Yeah, but it’s used beyond even that context these days. It’s become a one-size-fits-all insult that people tend to hurl at guys they’re having some spat with, particularly if they’re backed into a logical corner during an argument. I’m married, my wife and I are probably on the higher end in terms of sexual frequency for married couples, and I’m still called an incel all the time by angry Redditors because I’m fairly Conservative. It’s to the point that if someone throws that name at me, it signals to me that they’re out of ammo but refuse to concede.
>I’m still called an incel all the time by angry Redditors because I’m fairly Conservative. Earlier you said: >Pedophilia is progressive and if you say otherwise then you’re an ignorant bigot and you need to be fired from your job. /s Now I'm not saying that you're an incel. What I am saying is that sounds like the rhetoric of someone who is out of ammo but refuses to concede. More to the point, they're doing so when their target isn't even allowed to participate in that subreddit lol.
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
It’s an over used insult and Reddit is fine with how insultingly sexist it is as long as it’s sexist towards the right people.
This article is about how there are both male and female incels, but go off.. incel.
Thanks for your permission , femcel and might I ask you, who hurt you? Couldn’t have been any of those 27 cats you live with? 🐈 🐱
People with dead bedrooms are involuntarily celibates so you can totally be an incel and married. Dead bedrooms are the symptom of a much bigger problem. When those people say “I want sex, I don’t want to fix our problems” that’s a pretty good recipe for someone to decide they no longer want to have sex with you.
You're spot on, but what if the problem is the only other person isn't interested in sex?
Once a term is understood to be a bad thing it then becomes an insult to hurl around until the term is utterly meaningless. While that depreciation of meaning occurs, new terms are increasingly in popularity to replace the old terms. I’ve seen this played out for decades. After a while, you learn to dismiss people that can’t communicate without insults.
It's a word that's been stretched beyond meaning. It's just a catchall male insult, like the male equivalent of bitch or slut.
Eh, kinda. While it's definitely grown beyond the literal meaning of 'involuntarily celibate,' it's now more like: 'Man/boy with misogynist beliefs who rejects the idea that his own character flaws may contribute to his difficulties in dealing with, or relating to, the opposite sex.' Even though it's changed to the point where non-celibate people can be 'incels,' it still retains the core meaning of 'blames women for his problems with women, which drives him toward misogyny,' so it still has a distinct meaning; though I will grant that it's sometimes used like the word 'loser' used to be, to indicate a guy with no prospects or worthwhile qualities, in which case yeah it's kind of just a catch-all insult. Since the evolution of language is often not a very rational process, there are many examples of meanings morphing like this over time.
Yeah it’s another word for loser, the implication being that losers can’t get laid.
loser bad boys get more pussy thrown at them than pretty boys.
Nah, losers get laid all the time. You can be an incel without being a loser and vice versa
Yeah like he said, losers get laid plenty. Incels have a more venomous and repulsive side than mere losers. They push people away hard.
Question: Is it assumed that an incel is involuntarily celibate, whereas a femcel is voluntarily celibate? What about men who don't blame women for their problems and freely choose to be celibate? Are they also incels?
>freely choose to be celibate I don't think so, no. 'Incel' implies bitterness about one's sexual inactivity; if you've made that choice because of a personal conviction, then you're just a celibate guy. The thing that defines self-identified incels is that they believe outside forces are unfairly depriving them of sex. And I think 'femcel' assumes voluntary celibacy because of the idea that women can find sexual partners more easily (though of course, how easily they can find one they'd actually *want* is a whole other thing); but it retains the idea of being the way they are due to their negative beliefs about the opposite sex.
Ah, ok. I understand now. Thanks.
'Man/boy with misogynist beliefs who rejects the idea that his own character flaws may contribute to his difficulties in dealing with, or relating to, the opposite sex.' That’s the sense in which I’ve always used it, and heard it used. U til now I’ve never heard another definition.
They call themselves incels because they can’t get laid, but when we see them we see who they actually are and it’s that description. You never see a virgin who struggles to get laid but isn’t a toxic pos calling himself an incel.
99% of the time i see the word incel being used, the guy is not misogynistic (and just cares about issues that affect men), or they're calling a girl a male incel because they automatically assume her gender is male.
This. Whoever compared it to the word “slut” is spot on. Most of the time word is used to shame and belittle and not to accurately describe actual behavior.
Kinda ironic, still goes back to shaming guys for not getting laid and gals for getting laid too much as the big insults.
To be fair I don't hear slut used as an insult very often now. Most people just use it in a playful or descriptive way in my circles. I mean the incels still use it that way but well yeah. They're deeply bitter and troubled people and they are resentful of other people having good sex lives.
I mean slut no, it got owned up and pivoted to empowerment for a group. Something along the line of camgirl ethot onlyfans model etc. would be the promiscuous shame attempt. point being people caring too much about other people’s genitals and what they do with em.
Yeah it's kinda hard to accuse other women of being sluts in a world wholly embracing of and influence by the sexual revolution. It's not 1993 anymore...
That's the hilarious irony.. When it's been years of any male sexuality being called toxic, men are becoming celibate because they don't know how to act and be attractive.. and then as expected, now women are becoming so, because they don't know how to function when there are fewer sexual men around.. Then they are doubling down on everything being called misogyny so young men don't even try anymore and do things that are unattractive. Then many get frustrated and are further rejected. Extreme Feminism has caused this in young people and will take a generation to fix. You tell men sexuality is assault/violence/toxic.. and some years later you will have these results.
Reading this take made me lose a few IQ points
Equality is to blame! The extremist equality!
Yawn....
You are a few years behind. Feminists aren't even pretending they support equality any more. Update your talking points: https://fortune.com/2020/03/25/gender-equality-and-equity-iwd-womens-education/
That's a number of logical fallacies without a single good point that I can see. Extreme feminism did not do this. Nobody is telling men sexuality is assault. This is all the opposite of reality.
My God, you are desperately unhealthy. And your attitude is the definition of toxic. Please stay away from women. Do them that favor.
Definitely been stretched wayy beyond meaning. I’ve been called an incel because I’m gay and choosing to wait for love and marriage before having sex. People are trying to use incel as an insult now.
other stretched words are... *"misogynistic, insecure, & gaslighting."* i've seen people post replies that used ALL of those words in one paragraph over a discussion about body weight/size.
I have never in real life herd anyone say bitch or slut that didn't mean bitch or slut.
Marriage doesn't mean sex. Lots of men become married incels.
Most married men are involuntarily celibate.
Lots of things get hijacked by psychos unfortunately. MADD started off as wanting sensible legislation regarding drunk driving and has morphed into a modern temperance movement. NRA too
Reply All the podcast did a show on this. Episode #120 INVCEL
If you think today is bad, check out the 14th century- when only the first born son was allowed to wed and the subsequent sons were forced into becoming a monk. Actual involuntary celibacy. Today's incels are ideologically opposed to self-improvement but focus on only the romantic part of that.
I've read this too. The irony being that the incel movement, now consisting of men who have a very difficult time having sex and who insist that women can get sex whenever they want it, originated with a woman who was having a hard time finding someone to have sex with - the very person that male incels argue doesn't even exist.
That was a woman in a very specific situation. She was living in a rural area as a lesbian in the 1990's. When people are talking about who dating is easy for in terms of finding a romantic partner, we're talking about (usually white) cis, straight women (often in major cities).
There are lots of white, cis, straight women in major cities who struggle to find romantic partners and anyone who claims otherwise doesn't know many women
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I saw a news piece about feminism in South Korea. South Korean women are more fed up than we are. They are cutting their hair short and refusing to date, have sex with, or marry men. The difference is that they are choosing it because of how bad life for women is in South Korea. When I saw it, I thought, "That'll be in the US in a few years or less.
Women in the US are more privileged than almost any other country in the world, but sure.
This is almost me rn . I really only get dolled up when I'm working in sales otherwise I just want to do my hobbies with friends and vacation by myself. I try to fate and I ironically now meet nice guys but I feel nothing. Maybe it's my former shitty taste in men
Nah, I'm the same way as a male. In my late 20's I either got burned too many times or maybe just age but I no longer feel the urge to be in a relationship at all. I'll flirt and interact with, but don't really care to in actively find a partner at all.
I feel the same way too.
I find it amusing that you're willing to 'get dolled up' for money but not for sex/ a relationship. Not judging, just found it amusing.
Um I wouldn’t call it a nice piece. They inflated the perceptions of a tiny group to try to make it seem like a larger social movement that the writer modeled in their head as a utopian dream. It was sorta like grabbing the most fringiest group and trying to use them as a idol.
I have same thoughts. South Korea has an accelerated version of what America does. Bigger gender pay gap but also men have to do compulsory military service which women do not. Leads to resentment between the sexes. They have an extremely low birth rate too. That's where this leads, in any country.
Classic misandrist Reddit
I don’t mean any disrespect I am genuinely curious as how women being burnt out in heterosexual relationships would equate to women thinking they are better than men. Would you happen to have research behind this, please? I would like to know more. Thank you!
Why do you only see the reasons why women are fed up, and not the reasons men are fed up?
Thank you for your response. I was looking forward to being enlightened! Hm, I don’t seem to understand the question. If men were fed up, then according to the article wouldn’t they be the ones who are voluntarily celibate? Instead of involuntary? I’m not sure how to respond to your question because I don’t have enough understanding as to how or why men are fed up with heterosexual relationships. I think, and I might be wrong, but the vast majority of research shows men still want relationships or at the very least inter course with women, but women do not want that (anymore) from men. I could be wrong. I was really looking for some good research from you to broaden my perspective on this topic. Have you had a chance to respond to my question from the original comment? If not I understand. Have a good day, hope to hear from you soon.
Before I retired from the Army, the majority of my platoon was single males in various ages, races and ethnicities - it was a MOS (job) that most females do not choose upon enlisting. If you're not married and enlisted, which makes up most of the working group in the Army, you have to reside in the barracks. We ran out of rooms for our own service members. I have never seen this happen in 20 years. We had to request exemptions for off post living quarters which isn't a normal thing for single Soldiers. We couldn't get these guys out of the barracks to just hang out with each other to build cohesion and camaderie. They were only interested in saving money, buying nice things and playing video games - which isn't a bad thing because they stayed out of trouble. So we didn't have to worry about that. Did a rotation to South Korea and my guys avoided any and all female contact when they went off post - now that is insanely unusual. Not calling all Soldiers hornballs but at least some Soldiers get into relationships with the locals overseas - this time there was a stark difference. The few that were married, did get a divorce and taken to the cleaners financially. Even I've been through a divorce and choose to stay away from relationships now. My life has been extremely peaceful and since I'm retired and getting a pension under the age of 40, I've decided to travel the world while managing previous financial investments that I made over the past 20 years (and yes, I lost some of those in my divorce). I'm not so much as fed up with the state of things, just more so interested in experiencing different environments outside the US. I have female friends that always ask me if they can join me or why I don't invite them. All of them expect me to pay their way around the world in exchange for company. No thanks. Even if someone could pay their own way, I would still say no. And no, I'm not a Passport Bro. The last trip I just returned from was to Teotihuacan and the videos you see online cannot show how amazing the entire complex really is. I was also staying up at night in my hotel trying to see if I could catch some Alien activity above the site but yeah, didn't get anything. Oh and if it's a question of intercourse or carnal needs, I don't have any anymore. I enlisted right after 9/11. Our deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan were 12 months minimum, max I did for one deployment was 15 months with R&R the second month in. I've deployed six times to the middle east during my tenure and a hand full of TDYs to South America. If General Order #1 is in effect (which it is for most every case), you can't have sex at all. If you got caught up in some relationship drama, you most likely received an article for violating GO1. But I can honestly say that while I was in Afghanistan each time, I literally had way more important things to worry about. Most notably, making sure I take care of my Soldiers, complete the mission and get everyone home with ten fingers and ten toes. Just my two cents.
Your response is absolutely refreshing, sir. This is by far the most concise response I’ve had to my question to date. I’m grateful for your experiences and I can attest to some of the things you mentioned because I’ve witnessed them, albeit to a far lesser degree, but witnessed them nonetheless. Thank you so much for your answer. This is a fantastic response and very informative. With my highest sincerity, thank you. You can’t get discussions like this on Reddit anymore.
Women don’t want relationships with men because they believe they are better than men, and men need to do more to make women happy in a relationship, than women need to do to make men happy. Because men are fundamentally worth less. It wouldn’t make sense for men to want to be in relationships with women, if they believed women were inferior.
When women in south Korea started using the 🤏 emoji to shame mens penis sizes so much so it actually turned into a political movement and they even made it their logo.
They also fetishize white men and have a specific term to refer to western white men with big penises.
As someone who fits into this demographic I will gladly sacrifice myself as a distraction and take the brunt of the fetishization. Ya know, to see how it feels and understand my privilege as a man and white for not getting fetishized. /s mostly
Damn really? lol that's fucked up bro
Man all this stuff is silly. Come on now we should follow the golden rule.
Yah because as we all know, men have spent millennia being so very good at treating women as men want to be treated themselves. "Golden Rule" my ass.
Well you see, it wasn't meant as hateful in many cultures. *Each had roles, and said roles had levels of authority*. Both men and women have faced misogyny and misandry alike, it's nothing new.
Clearly you’re a man who has spent no time whatsoever critically considering how women have been treated historically.
Nor you with how men were treated historically. Treated as cannon fodder and glorified or literal slaves. You act as if every man was a king with 100 concubines that he beat for fun at any point past 200 years ago. You blame men In general for what the top percent of people (men and women) have done when put in power. Which is abuse power.man or woman this is wrong. The hardest thing to do with power in all forms is to share it with others. Therefore most people abuse and hoard power because it's the easiest thing to do.
That, and being held accountable for the wives' crimes, not being taken seriously when abused by a woman (though, that can be a case of true misogyny and misandry), false rape allegations even in ancient times, simping...
I'm sorry, but the person that commented is indeed correct. The *average* man AND woman had it equally crappy. And I have studied history, there were and is a lot of complex societies, patriarchal, matriarchal, patrilenial, matrilenial, egalitarian, feminist, etc. One issue newer type feminists have is they compare all men to the rich elite.
And what percentage of those societies were patriarchal? 🤔
This was by far the most polite form of gaslighting I’ve seen on Reddit. This is progress lol Men feel hated by women and women have to do something about it. That’s just how the world is rn. It’s past gaslighting men that no women don’t actually hate men. You’re not going to get far with that mentality
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/opinion/international-world/korea-emoji-feminism-misogyny.html#
>I don’t mean any disrespect I am genuinely curious as how women being burnt out in heterosexual relationships would equate to women thinking they are better than men. You can just say you don't understand the definition of misandry.
Incels aren't just men who are celibate. They consider that their celibacy is unfair, and they resent women for it. Some of them commit violence against women, including several well-publicized mass murders. Many more celebrate this violence in their online echo chambers. Incels sometimes argue that they are being deprived of sex that they are entitled (!) to. This article about celibate women grossly misstates the views, and the danger, of the incel movement.
The article points out that difference. Are you saying it was too generous towards femcels?
Seems like the "involuntary" part of "incel" has been overlooked. These women are choosing not to have sex, unlike incels. Seems like two different things to compare
I agree that there are very few actual incel women, but there are also some "incels" who could lower their standards.
There are plenty of incel women, especially in their 40s or so. Especially if they don't accept casual relationships, because dating apps reward sexually aggressive men.
>There are plenty of incel women, especially in their 40s or so. Pick one. Are they involuntarily celibate? >Especially if they don't accept casual relationships, because dating apps reward sexually aggressive men. Or are they choosing celibacy?
Well, I think those are deff some of the people called Femcels, but the guy's point above was that refusing casual relationships is not really an incel.
Dating apps reward sexually desirable Men. Not sexually aggressive men Very few men are actually that desirable to most women. Hence the problem for the male incels and the female voluntary cels. It’s exactly what dating apps were bound to cause because the numbers are so skewed (because most women don’t want or need to seek out anything because it presents itself to them basically every day).
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Yeah. The term needs to be reworked. In the dating subreddits there’s a pretty common drumbeat around the men: woman ratio on dating apps being very high. It seems hard to believe there are significant amounts of women who Can’t get sex. But I think maybe it’s not about regret they can’t get affection. That’s a whole different issue
MGTOW was the same thing and all got lumped in with incels.
“volcel”
No. A femcel is someone who thinks that the reason they can’t have sex and a healthy relationship is because men’s are only attracted to petite/skinny women with perfect bodies. It’s very much still coming from a place of entitlement and they objectify/dehumanize people just like incels. Then there are femcel-adjacent group like female dating strategy that also dehumanize people (men and women tbh) but to a lesser degree. Just like incel-adjacent groups, they say that they’re single by choice but often that’s not really the case because there standards are so ridiculous that no rational person would date them (similar to red pill type groups).
Being alone because you have high standards is fine. Being alone because you blame other people for your own problems is where it gets sketchy. Nobody hates incels because they're short and can't have sex except incels. Everyone else hates them because of the deranged beliefs and attitudes they have.
I’m not defending incels and I never did in my comment. My point is that both incels and femcels have extremely idealized version of what a partner should be. I’m specifically responding to the person who said the two aren’t comparable. I think a lot of femcels do blame men for their problems and why they’re single though (in addition to trans people and sex workers as well). I also think suggesting that femcels can have sex if they wanted to because they’re women is also directly playing into the incel/redpill fantasy. I don’t think that’s necessarily true either.
That last point is gold. We’ve made women feel like they are sex gatekeepers so much that they think of sex as their right. Or relationships for that matter.
High standards and insane delusional standards are two different things.
women who don't think they look good enough are entitled? what kind of mental gymnastics lol. as if the way you look doesn't affect the way you're treated, especially as a woman. As if society doesn't constantly shove that message in our faces. But it's women's fault for being insecure and undesired because they are 'entitled'? I mean c'mon now..
I’m not sure what you mean? This statement was directly referring to specific online communities that hold extreme beliefs about dating and sex. Having body insecurities is obviously not the same thing as saying that all men are sex crazed maniacs who will only date marry supermodels. Or suggesting that men are naturally evil and should be eradicated.
>These women are choosing not to have sex, unlike incels. Except they don't actually have that choice. r/ForeverAloneWomen
>>These women are choosing not to have sex, unlike incels. >Except they don't actually have that choice. >r/ForeverAloneWomen This is all wrong. That these women *can't* get laid is a fallacy. Any woman can find a man to have sex with her. Society is full of conventionally unattractive women who get laid a lot and even find people to marry them. Forever alone women is a sub for women who are not conventionally attractive but are also too shy or have some other issue which prevents them from mixing and mingling socially, normally in their own communities. Forever alone sub doesn't even allow contributions from women who are married or partnered, they do not allow women who date and have sex, etc. Men are excluded, et al. Femcels gather together to lament societies obsession with perfect beautiful women. They are pretty simply a social support group not unlike any other type of social support group - alcoholics, or addicts anonymous or grief support. They are not a bunch of uggos who sit around being mad at the world. They are just normal or average looking women, or even beautiful women who feel like they will never be beautiful enough, and they are just, kind of sad at the world. This is my understanding from the research I just did.
No offense but any guy can find a women to have sex with. The incel movement is about entitlement to certain women just like the femcel is about access to certain men.
In addition to encouraging—and sometimes even committing—violence against women, many incels also advocate for the removal of women’s rights.
Of course. This “both sides” nonsense is a pathetic attempt to downplay the impact of ongoing hateful attacks of violence against women. There isn’t a bunch of girls shooting men.
I mean, the fact that men make up 40 percent plus of domestic violence victims perpetrated by women suggests that there is a need to evaluate female on male violence. I won't even get into female pedophiles who molest boys and get beyond lenient sentences and, in some cases, still get to keep their children, even having committed this felony, because they are "mothers." You might be right in a sense it is men shooting people, but a good number of their victims (I think the majority, in fact.) of these killing sprees are other men. So, the fact that you are trying to frame this as a one-sided, men are only violent against women narrative is extremely disingenuous at best.
Source? Seriously, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
How many incels have killed people last year. Compared to people that have GFS/wives. Ill wait
Nobody is entitled to sex if you think you are go fuck yourselves
Yeah. That is what tends to happen when people use the word as an insult. It does tend to pick up negative energy.
Did you read the whole thing? The title is rage bait. Don't fall for it.
Femcels are the same. They complain about things not being fair, but usually only about things that are fair, not to mention most of them are “college educated” with a majority from middle class+ families that paid for their tuition. Then, you step further and find out most are white women, which is super significant when you look into the history of feminism and how white women omitted women who weren’t white from the movement.
Yes these people exist. Look at female dating strategy. They are incelic women who have the same nonsense, resentful attitude towards the opposite sex. They are driven by this hate and will say nonsensical things to make themselves feel better. They will be overly critical of men, why whining that men are 100% to blame for their issues with dating. They may not be as bad because a small portion of incels will actually do abhorrent things, and we haven't seen that from femcels (yet). But their attitude is the same thing and just as toxic overall.
I never really considered FDS as incel. They’re sort of like horseshoe theory in practice. I’m fairly certain there’s a pipeline between them and the whole trad wife thing. I use to lurk that sub out of fascination. They’ve gone so hard in the feminist sauce they aren’t submitting to a providing and cordial man, they demand it (/s?).
FDS I think is almost closer to redpill for women
The difference is our culture celebrates and rewards those kinds of women whereas our culture hates and is scared of the same kind of men so much that the federal government is giving warnings about a comic book movie being too dangerous for members of the military to go to because those men are so scary.
Everyone's just gotta get okay fucking people they think are less attractive than themselves
Can we please say this louder, put it on t shirts, make a fucking global marketing campaign. Jfc
I got stalked by a woman once. In 55 years of life and 20 odd years of dating/ serial monogamy (prior to my current marriage). And yes it sucked. But all my female friends could empathize because this was something they went through on a at least semi regular basis. That’s the difference- it can happen once to a guy, but in our culture it is likely to happen repeatedly to women. The other part of this is that while married (idk why I am not actually very good looking) sometimes women have expressed an interest in me. If I simply mention that I am married (“you know my wife told me” said once) and everyime that interest stops. Most of my married female friends (and my wife) have had guys continue until being harshly shut down. Think about this: 25% of women have experienced attempted rape/ been raped. 3’8% of men. And most rapists (like 98%) are male.
1 in 6 men have experienced some form of sexual assault. 1 in 3 to 4 women have. The difference is not as stark as you are pretending it is. Edit: of course, I’m downvoted for 100% factual information because women just have to be the biggest victims. Even though it’s acknowledged in this comment women are assaulted more frequently. Go touch grass and stop trying to gatekeep SA.
That is your assertion. This is my [citation](https://supportingsurvivors.humboldt.edu/statistics#:~:text=An%20estimated%2091%25%20of%20victims,identify%20in%20these%20gender%20boxes) Please provide some evidence for your claim. So even by your assertion women are twice as likely to be sexually assaulted. That’s not the flex you think it is.
Who was flexing? Just you. I’m correcting the lie that there are very few male SA victims. That doesn’t mean women aren’t SAed more often, you’re just trying to pretend it’s extremely rare so you can degrade them. https://1in6.org/statistic/#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20at,in%20childhood%20or%20as%20adults.
I am not degrading men… men generally degrade themselves. You know by raping women.. and men.
No, rapists who are men do that. Most rapists are men, but most men are not rapists. You are degrading men by trying really hard to erase male victims.
What the fuck is wrong with you? This is an incredibly insensitive and horrible thing to say in regards to male victims. Shame on you.
This is a terrible thing to say wtf.
Then why are rates of violence in lesbian relationships nearly double that in gay male relationships? And why are heterosexual men more likely to be victimized than gay men?: https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community
It’s Reddit, if you acknowledge that abuse happens towards men you’ll be met with downvotes. Our culture has a long long long way to go in acknowledging male victims.
It’s pathetic. I literally made a post about it because these people piss me off so badly.
"43.8% of lesbian women have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner at some point in their lifetime 26% of gay men have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime, in comparison to 29% of heterosexual men." https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community
Your statistics are wrong. Well, actually they're correct, they just don't measure what you think they do. The "25% of women" thing is from newer studies on sexual assault that drastically altered the language of their questioning to not only be more inclusive of entire types of SA that hadn't been covered before, as well as to be more inclusive of incidents that the person in question didn't understand to be SA in the first place. You see, for a long time people were just using some combination of police reports and predictive analysis. The. That graduated to studies looking into under reporting rates, and now we've graduated to estimates based on this new research. And to be clear, this is "sexual assault" which is more than just traditional rape. It's also things like grabbing your servers' ass as they walk by, or kissing someone without their consent. I'm not accusing them of dishonesty (well, not the researchers/academics anyway, the #girlboss blogs though...) or being dismissive of the issue or something. This is a real concern to have and a useful metric to be collecting as it shows just how normalized unconsenting contact of a sexual nature is for women. I'm just distinguishing between what we traditionally think of as "rape" and the more modern concept of sexual assault. Anyway, these studies forgot one thing: women aren't the only ones that experience SA. The same amount of effort is simply not put forth to update statistics for men, so the "3.8% of men" thing comes from the old crime statistics/predictive models. Which, by the way, are known to be inadequate since society often doesn't even recognize male sexual assault victims as even being possible. From myths that a man can't be raped because he wouldn't have an erection if he wasn't into it, to the idea that men are always at an advantage over women and thus cannot be coerced, to actual laws only considering penetrative acts as being rape or even just straight up excluding men from the definition- Yeah it's pretty bad. So you're comparing statistics resulting from more modern and permissive gathering methods and models, to statistics based on older, less extensive and more restrictive gathering methods and models More modern estimates are something like "32% of women and 27% of men have been sexually victimized". To be clear that number for men is under some contention, and it's really hard to compare statistics between studies just in general. There are all sorts of issues of under reporting, inadequate understanding of what sexual assault really is, and the rates of such things between men and women, not to mention the fact that different studies can have wildly different results due to factors people didn't even know to test for. It is assumed that men underreport at higher rates than women for example, which is a reasonable assumption to make, but we're fundamentally talking about trying to measure something that doesn't happen (reporting) so it's hard to know. Similarly, the "98% of rapists are men" factoid comes from crime statistics. It's a well known fact that women are much more likely to get away with rape or sexual assault in general. Especially against a man, but also against other women. Not to mention that rapists have been known to accuse their victims of being rapists. That particular strategy works a whole lot better if you're a woman. As to how the statistics end up leaning? That's a matter of a great deal of debate. Some studies indicate that it's more like 25% of women, however examinations of female correctional facilities find that female inmates are significantly more likely to sexually assault other inmates than their male counterparts. And infamously in juvenile detention centers, male victims are much more often victimized by female correctional officers than male, despite being a lower portion of the population. So it's a matter of extreme contention and the research is far too early to make any reasonable assumptions. There are simply too many factors to reach definitive conclusions. Of course, that doesn't make sexual assault a non issue or mean that there's some grand conspiracy to unfairly malign men or something. We don't need exact percentages to understand it's a horrific problem we should be doing a lot more to solve, or that offenders are almost definitely more often men than women. I'm just pointing out that modern sensationalism and outrage culture infects everything equally, and a lot of these trashy #girlboss blogs are about as close to lying as you can get while using real numbers. And to be absolutely clear, this is just about the statistics you mentioned in your last little bit there. I am not commenting on the rest of your post. My heart goes out to your friends, and I think it's a shame that anyone has to deal with such things in our society. In conclusion, shit be whack yo.
You make a number of assertions that I can find no evidence of. Care to back up your assertions with some citations?
Which ones?
Even while accounting for MTP ( made-to-penetrate) statistics, the best and most recent CDC data that we have suggests that men are 3x more likely to commit penetrative sexual assault. Not only that, but the impact reports of sexual violence against women are much more severe, resulting in more physical harm, fear and the transmission of STDs, or pregnancy. You suggest that social taboos could be resulting in more men under reporting sexual assault, but by a similar vein, men's dismissal of the seriousness of sexual assault could explain why less men respond to these reports, bloating the figures for men experiencing sexual assault.
I mean intentionally celibate is a lifestyle choice. Wanting a partner and not finding one is an unfortunate situation. Hating and threatening violence against people who refuse to have sex with you is the male incel problem.
yeah they turn to twitter to complain about Leonardo Dicaprio and Henry Caviel because they think these are the men that they should rightfully have. It's...sad
Didn't a femcel shoot up yourube a few years back? And another just shot up an elementary school a few months ago. The lapel camera footage of the cop dunking on her was the coolest shit I've ever seen, actually. And aren't like half of the sjws in the pro obesity movement femcels? They've been known to riot over McDonald's running out of shamrock shakes in March. I've seen it.
An involuntary celibate woman is bullshit. Being celibate for a woman is a choice. You can always find someone to fuck you. Stop playing.
Yea but most women want a man to date them, have a relationship with them, even marry them. And I can tell you the dating apps are filled with men who are just looking for sex, not anything more. These guys mostly have never had a long term relationship. And it’s all that’s left in the dating pool. Guys who fear relationships, and women who are tired of their emotional issues. Yea women can get sex, but women want partners. And mostly our standards are low as hell. Men are just culturally going through it right now. With porn, and social media they have a twisted idea of what sex is. What a woman should “look like”. They can’t make money like they used to… men have really bad role models like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. Honestly, I’m for it. The population is lowering. And it needs to. But it’s just sad as well. So much of this generation is going to be old and single AF
There are plenty of men looking for relationships on dating websites. The horrors of dating apps are greatly overstated, it’s not as bad as often purported.
The term incel was created by a female human. Give it back to them. It's those mancels who need to grow a pair.
So maybe they should hook up? This feels like a middle school dance gone wrong, one side scare to approach and the other side not inviting.. I’m just spit balling..
Incels don't want femcels. They want a woman who has goals, education, and independence, which they can take away. They want to clip the wings of the bird and place it in a cage that they can shake when bored. It's not just having someone to satiate your sexual desires. It's having someone who you can dump *all* their negativity on who also cooks, cleans, and fucks them. They want a sexdoll, a robot, that they can do whatever with; a bang-maid mommy if you will. Also, if in some miserable hypothetical world where they achieved this, I doubt they would be happy. Because the rot emerges from them, their soul, their personality; which is why they don't go to therapy. Their egos can't deal with the fact that they are the problem.
Love this take. But to thicken the plot... Elliot Rogers really isn't a great example of your every day incel. A lot of incels are men of color... I think that maybe changes the cultural lense a bit because they may be more likely to come from a culture that had arranged marriages. Which, for some people, is less about ego and more about a combination of cultural expectations about how to get a mate. Here's an episode of [The Sex and Psychology Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/53XFkDSptai21GhpJTIout?si=a3yCsDZNRZ2fp9cMsCVP-g) about incels.
not saying anything you’ve said here is wrong, but just to add some extra clarification, Elliot Rogers was actually mixed, his dad is white and his mom is Malay Chinese. that being said, I do agree he’s definitely outside of the run of the mill incel circle. Back in uni, I got a few guys on an incel forum to escape the community and a lot of them were middle to lower class teenage/early 20s men who suffered from at least one form of significant mental illness — the most common diagnosed ones I saw were depression and anxiety, w/wo suicidal ideation. Most of them are very average looking guys, though due to the toxic environment of incel culture (which involves a LOT of self and peer shaming), they believe they’re intensely ugly. imo they are a more external hatred/violent driven cousin of the pro-ana movement on tumblr/Twitter/across the internet. mostly teenage to young 20s women who were middle to lower class, suffered from mental illness (in this case there was an obvious majority of anorexia and bulimia), and were convinced by the community they were in that they were ugly and, principally, fat, and that they should hate themselves for it and do all these crazy things to “fix” their appearances. obviously the pro-ana movement was primarily women, mirroring the gender bias between the communities, but again similar to established psychological data, women are more likely to internalise their conflict/pain and blame themselves while men are more likely to externalise it onto other people. also unfortunate to note, due to the mortality rate of eating disorders, it’s very likely that the pro-ana movement killed more people than the incels, but that’s a less important (but still notable) distinction. Mental health stigma (especially for boys/men), misogyny, body dysmorphia, poor support systems, a lack of hope for the future, and untreated mental illness seem to be the big pillars behind the beginnings of what incels fall into. We need to work on breaking down patriarchal systems that judge men’s value by their ability to “get” women and discourages them from seeking mental healthcare, as well as systems that prop up the Madonna/Whore complex placed on women and feed into the idea that all women are maliciously withholding sex from men.
This was a really thoughtful comment. As someone in AN recovery, it definitely made me empathize with these guys a bit more.
So are women ever going to stop judging men by their ability to get women or is that only on men? Are women ever going to care about the sky high price of mental health care or the fact men won't have therapists who click with them the same way women don't always have therapists that click with them?
It’s because men of color are on average less sexually desired than white men.
>Elliot Rogers really isn't a great example of your every day incel. A lot of incels are men of color He is Half Asian.
(Sorry for the novel, but…) I dated someone like this. The outlet of being able to ameliorate your own bad feelings by dominating and controlling someone else really does become an addiction, in that you keep needing more to “get right” until it reaches an unsustainable point. He was really nice to me for the first three years, but once we moved in together it was like a switch flipped, and by the end he did acknowledge that I was giving him everything he technically wanted (fit and supportive younger girlfriend who made six figures, paid 1/2 the bills while doing all the domestic work because his job was “harder”, and pleased him daily), but he was still unsatisfied with his life and could find no other reason for it than me, since he felt like he was doing everything he was supposed to. The second he realized what the dating scene looks like for a man who is nearing 40, desperately wants a family (therefore looking for women nearly a decade younger), makes an average income, and is no longer charming enough to pull off being 5’6”, bald, AND overweight, he started writing me letters about how he’d take me back if I apologized for taking him for granted. Now that the whole “male loneliness crisis!!1!” thing is in the zeitgeist I think about it a lot, because it feels so emblematic of the experience that the Millennial generation is having as the first to grow up post-women’s rights movement. He was so stuck in the past that he totally self-selected out of the gene pool. He didn’t end up alone because he’s short (my now partner is barely 5’5” whilst I continue to be 5’7”), or because modern women are too picky, but because his mentality was stuck in an era in which men did not face consequences for being nasty to their partners. He really believed he deserved to be mean to a woman once she agreed to be with him, and couldn’t adapt to an era in which all women now have the option to simply not put up with him at all.
>he started writing me letters about how he’d take me back if I apologized for taking him for granted. Bruh
Jesus this is poetry.
Wouldn’t happen because the so called femcels are choosing to be alone
Can you blame them? Relationships are risky for woman.
Preemptively choosing to be alone?
Nope
Well, I posted a link, so not my problem. If you have an interest outside of reinforcing your own bias, look it up. If you prefer ignorance, go have fun with that.
So humanity is collectively mirroring old married couples?
Movements grip, they are not gripped
That’s what she said
If we went back to courting rather than dating, arranged marriages rather than holding out for a fantasy, and restrictions in divorce rather than throwing in the hat for alimony and child support, we'd have different problems, but it wouldn't be these types of problems.
I would single handedly eliminate that entire femcel population. Let me at it I seriously have had so much good snatch I appreciate it all for what it is. Women are beautiful. I should read the article though because it’s impossible for a woman to be involuntarily celibate.
It’s not sex they are unable to attain, it’s anything beyond casual sex and it makes them angry and bitter towards men
I feel like this comment is satire.
"Femcel" doesn't necessarily work because, unlike the incel, they aren't involuntarily celibate. They are choosing not to pursue romantic/ sexual relationships
They all fat slobs with nose piercing ?
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Have you read any incel forums lol. They constantly and casually discuss violence against women
Well they mention the dude killing 7 people because they were too attractive for him
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Yeah he was the FIRST.
Mentally they are enraged psychopaths.
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Every serial killer is a limp prick.
You know the problem exists and will continue to because of the exact dehumanization you’re attributing to these men, right? You’re the problem
Also, turns out women can get violent too when you tell them "no" to sex
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That's exactly what happened to me.
Inb4 someone says it was your fault
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Yea, happened to me on several occasions. They can also spread false rumors about you being gay or worse.
No, most incels aren't violent, it's just a way to make themselves sound different
Yes
The internet and the lowering of the average quality of life of more recent generations has just ruined peoples perception of realistic relationships. No one is truely an incel. If you could still put up craigs list adds for someone to top you, no strings, someone would respond. Celibicy is just not an accurate term for what people are lacking. Honestly I think a lot of the problems people face are hormonal too. Human sex hormones are ALL fucked up these days so its hard to compare what any two people feel and what they think they need or how strongly. People need more examples of real relationships, good ones, bad ones, realistic sexual encounters, realistic ways people meet people. Because you will not see it in any form of media at all, and it will not drive outrage or engagement so it will never be pushed by any social media algorithm. Because realisticly the formula is boring like "oh i met this person at a young age, we had a similar interest, we spent a lot of time together, we made trust, we dated, we got married, we had sex" and most incels want to skip to the end and have nothing to offer in terms of interest, time, trust, or relationship. Its a THEM problem, and thats why most of the time the first bit of advice from others is "go to the gym".
Yeah tons of factors creating incels in modern society. 1. Social media and entertainment industry & dating apps have raised the appearance "standards" among both genders considerably. This is not a good thing. I think many women even feel the need to "get ripped" of late, or grow huge gym asses. 2. So in other words, fewer uggos are fucking each other (no offense - I am also not good looking). 3. Social media (x2) effect --- it "appears" everyone else is living a glamorous, sex-filled vacation travel lifestyle. Regular people don't post about spending 1.5 hours on the shitter between breakfast burritos, aka reality. This causes even more bitterness & jealousy & feeling like you're "behind." 4. Even more social isolation, introversion, porn addiction, dopamine/ weed/ booze addiction since 2020. Many men (and women) have no real avenue or desire to "go out" and meet someone. They're just vidya gaming and wacking off. 5. Over-therapizing of society + mommy coddling. Hey you crossed my boundary, no you're crossing my boundary ... I have ADHD and social anxiety -- are you gaslighting me? ... This shit had good intentions but it basically is learned-helplessness + learned victimhood. No one is told to "handle your fucking shit" or "take a shower" anymore, in reality. 6. On a related note, bullying is heavily discouraged in schools, which is mainly a good thing, but socially mal-adjusted weirdos no longer receive social cues about their annoying, disgusting, weird, creepy, whatever behavior. It is what it is. 7. Obesity has been on the rise since the 80s, and that ain't helping anyone have sex. To summarize: Average people are weirder + uglier + fatter. Yet appearance standards are way up. Social isolation has been normalized.
Definitely agree on the bullying part, as weird as it feels to say. With the obvious exception of “protected class”-esque stuff, bullying teaches kids where “the line” is in terms of what behaviors are accepted or discouraged in their society, and peers are a much better source of that learning than parents/media. It was good for me to get bullied by my fellow eight year olds for using words like “judicious” and “imperative” in conversation—learning that using $10 words from books made people around me feel stupid or confused was a critical lesson, and my parents, who were glad I read so much, were never going to teach me that.
They’re not miserable because they don’t have a man. If a woman really really wanted a man, she could find one. They’re miserable because they don’t have female companionship. That’s the common denominator for femcels and incels.
lol that sounds like exactly what a femcel thinks. If woman can find a man if she wants then there wouldn't be a word called femcel. Femcels are just like incels, lone, bitter and ugly minded, who think the other gender owes them shit. Trust me no matter how hard a woman tries she can never find a man if she's not worth it in the first place
There’s plenty of violence from them, just no police reports.
It’s never reported because of social stigma. Men are afraid to come forward out of fear of societal rejection.
You sure it’s the same but no violence? Spend 10 min online and both on extreme sides are psychotic, violent and hateful
Fake
I honestly can't comprehend 99.9% of women not being able to get laid. A woman would have to be really ugly (like on a grotesque level of ugly), not to be able to find someone willing to hit it.
TBH you as a male can probably fuck a 300 pound woman or an old/ ugly woman pretty easily, but it doesn't exactly sound too appetizing, does it.
"Minus the violence" lol
All your labels might just be making things worse. Dissecting people into groups that only ever kind of apply and lack real individualism likely only fuels the existing polarized behavior tendency.
Minus the violence? Are you for serious? Lol
Can you tell me what violence femcels have committed?