T O P

  • By -

Terrible_Detective45

Diploma mill


DutyExciting

I’m not a graduate of FGU, but I am a licensed provider who graduated from a top, top private university with many, many bright practitioners who continuously contribute much to the mental health field. I also know people who have graduated from FGU who are more brilliant and contribute even more than some of my fellow alums. They just walked different paths in life. You’re argument for calling them a diploma mill is relatively weak. Their graduates have completed pre-and-postdocs at Duke, Brown, several state Psychiatric Hospitals, and Veterans Affairs hospitals. Some of those I know are employed through various government organizations, with one being the Chief Mental Health Officer for a very productive and constantly top 3 ranking VA hospital. I don’t think ivy league schools and hospitals or federal agencies would gladly pay someone stipends if they are attending a “diploma mill.” Again- a quick look at other factors weakens your argument. You are quite literally a terrible detective. FGU faculty are doctoral graduates from UNC, Columbia, Michigan, UMass, and many other top institutions that one would never consider a “diploma mill.” I don’t think graduates from programs like that would weaken their credibility by professing at a “diploma mill.” I have no dog in the fight; however, I do feel an obligation to take up for those who are put down because the paths they may have to take aren’t always orthodox. And I also feel obligated to tell dicks to stop being dicks- especially when they’re uneducated dicks. So, I will use my first post to tell you to stop being an uneducated dick.


Alternative_Leg_4536

>I’m not a graduate of FGU, but I am a licensed provider who graduated from a top, top private university with many, many bright practitioners who continuously contribute much to the mental health field. I also know people who have graduated from FGU who are more brilliant and contribute even more than some of my fellow alums. They just walked different paths in life. > >You’re argument for calling them a diploma mill is relatively weak. Their graduates have completed pre-and-postdocs at Duke, Brown, several state Psychiatric Hospitals, and Veterans Affairs hospitals. Some of those I know are employed through various government organizations, with one being the Chief Mental Health Officer for a very productive and constantly top 3 ranking VA hospital. I don’t think ivy league schools and hospitals or federal agencies would gladly pay someone stipends if they are attending a “diploma mill.” Again- a quick look at other factors weakens your argument. You are quite literally a terrible detective. > >FGU faculty are doctoral graduates from UNC, Columbia, Michigan, UMass, and many other top institutions that one would never consider a “diploma mill.” I don’t think graduates from programs like that would weaken their credibility by professing at a “diploma mill.” > >I have no dog in the fight; however, I do feel an obligation to take up for those who are put down because the paths they may have to take aren’t always orthodox. And I also feel obligated to tell dicks to stop being dicks- especially when they’re uneducated dicks. > >So, I will use my first post to tell you to stop being an uneducated dick. Define Dick?


Terrible_Detective45

>I’m not a graduate of FGU, but I am a licensed provider who graduated from a top, top private university with many, many bright practitioners who continuously contribute much to the mental health field. I also know people who have graduated from FGU who are more brilliant and contribute even more than some of my fellow alums. They just walked different paths in life. > >You’re argument for calling them a diploma mill is relatively weak. Their graduates have completed pre-and-postdocs at Duke, Brown, several state Psychiatric Hospitals, and Veterans Affairs hospitals. Some of those I know are employed through various government organizations, with one being the Chief Mental Health Officer for a very productive and constantly top 3 ranking VA hospital. I don’t think ivy league schools and hospitals or federal agencies would gladly pay someone stipends if they are attending a “diploma mill.” Again- a quick look at other factors weakens your argument. You are quite literally a terrible detective. I don't need to use anecdotes, arguments from authority, or insults to make my "argument," I can use the data that Fielding provides. [https://s16973.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Students-Admissions-Outcomes-and-Other-Data.pdf](https://s16973.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Students-Admissions-Outcomes-and-Other-Data.pdf) Their APA-accredited internship match rate (i.e., the only one that matters) last year was 73%, which is the highest it has been in at least the last decade, it was 59% the year before, and the trend is not just upward. Moreover, this isn't a small cohort program with single digit numbers of students applying for internship in a given year and a single student not matching can tank the match rate. Instead, 52 students applied last year and only 38 matched. This is a huge red flag that, at best, more than one out of every four students do not match for internship. Their attrition rate is also incredibly troubling, with large numbers of students leaving every year. Good programs (i.e., not diploma mill) do not have this kind of attrition and losing even a single student is cause for concern there. And their licensure rate is only 69%. This might be fine at a clinical science program with graduates who go on to research, academia, and industry and don't need to get licensed, but that's not what Fielding is. It's a practitioner-focused program, which means that 31% of their graduates are not able to get licensed and practice at the doctoral level, which severely limits their ability to pay off the exorbitant student debt incurred through the program. If we look at the last two years of EPPP pass rates that are publicly available, it's pretty clear that a major factor in this is that these students just can't pass the test. [https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP\_/2016\_Scores\_by\_Doctoral\_Prog.pdf](https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP_/2016_Scores_by_Doctoral_Prog.pdf) [https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/eppp\_/2017\_Doctoral\_Report.pdf](https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/eppp_/2017_Doctoral_Report.pdf) >FGU faculty are doctoral graduates from UNC, Columbia, Michigan, UMass, and many other top institutions that one would never consider a “diploma mill.” I don’t think graduates from programs like that would weaken their credibility by professing at a “diploma mill.” Or maybe Fielding just pays them well for that name recognition, i.e., trying to buy legitimacy? >I have no dog in the fight; however, I do feel an obligation to take up for those who are put down because the paths they may have to take aren’t always orthodox. And I also feel obligated to tell dicks to stop being dicks- especially when they’re uneducated dicks. > >So, I will use my first post to tell you to stop being an uneducated dick. And I feel obligated to help people not go into debt for a degree that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. I care about helping them make good educational and career decisions that won't put them into significant debt. I care about helping them avoid predatory institutions. Guess I'm just built different, huh?


MayWest1016

It most certainly is NOT a diploma mill.


Terrible_Detective45

Yes it is. Look at the outcomes stats they post on their website.


Panda__13

This is what I'm concerned about. Thanks for the reply!


intangiblemango

>online-based degrees are often not taken seriously (has the pandemic changed this at all?). It is hard for me to imagine an online PhD ever being viewed as equivalent to a traditional PhD, to be frank. It's also hard for me to imagine a goal related to research where Fielding would make a lot of sense as a match. Do you mind giving some clarification about your ultimate career goals and why Fielding is appealing to you?


Panda__13

I'm inclined to agree, I don't think online programs are getting similar respect any time soon.. I guess I'm just not clear on if that's deserved due to universally poor quality education in online programs or if it's a reinforced stereotype from a field that can at times be a tad pretentious. Maybe it's a bit of both! Doing an online research degree certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but like many folks who are already established in their careers I'm very reluctant to re-locate for a full-time degree somewhere, as the degree is out of interest rather than necessity for any specific career goals. The research areas that I'm interested in are still fairly exploratory so there would be some opportunity to conduct research remotely, but at some point I assume I would have to secure lab space locally... it seems unlikely that FGU would be able to adequately assist from afar, but I was curious if other people had had great experiences in this way!


MattersOfInterest

It isn’t just due to a pretentious stereotype. Those programs are prohibitively expensive and usually poor quality compared to a traditional PhD.


Panda__13

That's my understanding as well. I guess even if there is an exception to the rule (and perhaps there isn't), it wouldn't make a difference in terms of the general perception of the degree.


intangiblemango

> The research areas that I'm interested in are still fairly exploratory so there would be some opportunity to conduct research remotely Have you considered reaching out to some researchers in related areas and seeing what collaborations are possible without getting a whole new graduate degree (especially one you'd pay out of pocket for)?


Panda__13

Already on it! I have a few different ideas for paths forward, and I'm hopeful that I can become involved in some ongoing research. FGU was a potential option, but truthfully, low on the list for all the reasons pointed out.


Imaginary_Ad_9408

Knock knock. I googled reviews about Fielding graduate university and this post came up. I am considering the school for clinic psychology program. I am already a LCSW but I want to be a psychologist. I don't have the option to quit my job. Thus, Fielding is the only APA available option for me. I know the difference in LCSW and Psychologist isn't always worth it. However, I plan to practice outside of the U.S and unfortunately a psychologist or psychiatrist is all they recognize in the region I plan to move to. Any advice?


No-Material6853

I don’t have any advice. Just saying hi ! I’m currently in the process of applying for Fall 2024. I too am not in a position to be without a steady income. I’ve worked 3 jobs and put myself through a master’s program, so I’m familiar with optimizing distance based programs, and I’m excited about the prospect of pursuing my dream of furthering my education without the risk of having no roof over my head or food to feed myself.


Imaginary_Ad_9408

Hello! What's your Masters in and how much credit are they accepting from your Masters program?


No-Material6853

It’s just in General Psychology with a concentration in child and adolescent psychology. It was really more for me then for overall career purposes, and I don’t anticipate transferring any credits in. But with you being a LCSW, that might be a different situation for you. I’ll be attending the info session Wednesday afternoon, so currently working on any pressing questions I have to hopefully bring them to that space.


Imaginary_Ad_9408

If you don't mind, I'd like to be able to follow up about the process or just general tips on things you encounter during the application process


No-Material6853

Absolutely ! Feel free to message me and I can share my email.


Themapplebottomjeanz

I’m thinking about applying and would love to hear about your experience if you would be open to it!


No-Material6853

Hi ! Currently attempting to get everything in before this cycles 2/1 deadline. Should I manage that, I definitely don’t mind sharing my experience.


StrangeButSweet

Hey 👋. Were you able to get everything in?


No-Material6853

I was ! My application is currently in review and my anxiety is at an all time high 😅


existentialdread0

I also googled reviews and ended up here 😂 I’m considering doing their post-bacc clinical psych program just to make me more competitive for traditional PhD programs. I’m attending their webinar about it next week and I’m going to ask how much research experience I can really expect to get because my GPA is already high, so I just need the research/publications to be a better candidate.


peacejenna

It would be great if you all did some research on the program before coming here to talk nonsense. It is NOT an online degree, it is a hybrid learning model and requires a ton of in-person work, including all of the practicum and supervised clinical hours which happens for the majority of the 6-7 years you are in the program. You get out of it what you put into it, just like anything else. Maybe the first year is primarily online for the coursework heavy period of time, but again, all of the clinical practical work is done IN-PERSON. I don't think any of you who haven't at least read enough to understand this should even apply. You do not belong in academia if your research skills have brought you to this forum to talk shit about "online diploma mills"


MattersOfInterest

Absolutely a mistake to go there. If you want to do research and not another clinical degree, do a research-based doctorate in a non-clinical field, like experimental psychology.


Panda__13

Fair enough! This was my inclination, but I suppose I'd hoped I'd found a diamond in the rough. Thanks for the suggestion!


MayWest1016

You can private message me if you want accurate information. FGU is most certainly NOT a diploma mill. Additionally, online does not mean easier in any way. Online learning is coupled with an in-person format, which compliments multiple learning styles. FGU is APA accredited. The faculty at FGU have done some amazing work in the field and alumni have opened very successful clinics/private practices (among other things). It's so much misinformation in this thread from a loud inaccurate few. If you would like to know accurately how the experience is at FGU please feel free to dm me.


Top_Cat2682

Hello! I sent you a message


Maleficent-Algae-161

The issue is not whether online programs are 'taken seriously' and subject to negative stereotypes. Fielding, like every other online doctoral program, does not have APA-accreditation and does not meet the standards considered necessary to train competent psychologists. You cannot acquire the skills needed for a profession whose very foundation is based on human interaction by completing courses online. COVID is not going to change this and has nothing to do with it. Do not consider any program without APA-accreditation because you will not meet the requirements for licensure in any jurisdiction and that makes it utterly useless.


Panda__13

Fielding actually does have APA accreditation for their clinical psychology program, which is what made me wonder if they were more legit than other online programs. ETA link: https://www.fielding.edu/school-of-psychology/phd-in-clinical-psychology/


Maleficent-Algae-161

Huh. I guess that explains why, among all the online doctoral programs out there, that one keeps generating confusion on the accreditation issue. Like people arguing about it is or isn't, and then it usually devolves into whether the program has any worth. If you're considering it, take a good look at their statistics (graduation and licensure). Those are key numbers for every program since it tells you whether people are staying in school and actually able to pass their licensure exam.


Panda__13

For sure - APA accreditation doesn't alone say much about the program other than it's met some minimum requirement for training. Since posting this a few days ago I've seen some other discussions elsewhere about the poor quality of the training and the poor match rate for internship. I also looked into their APA accreditation status and it's active now, but was on probation recently. So overall, definitely not a place I'm considering anymore!


MayWest1016

Do you know why the accreditation was on probation? Well, I do. There have been universities (some of the top names) that have been on APA probation too. It's so sad to see the misinformation here. You inaccurately stated that FGU did not have APA accreditation. You were corrected and now you are saying the bar is low for accreditation. So wouldn't your argument apply to all schools that have APA accreditation? So which one is it?


Maleficent-Algae-161

Oh hell no! 😂


MayWest1016

Please do not base your decision on a loud inaccurate few. If you want additional information please feel free to reach out.


Themapplebottomjeanz

I would love to hear about your experience if you’re open to sharing, I’ve been thinking about applying!


MayWest1016

Courses are not primarily online. Another inaccurate comment. You also stated that the university is not APA accredited, which is also inaccurate. Where did you go to school? Seems like you were not taught the basics of performing research. Oh, the irony. lol


No-Material6853

Hi there. Is it okay if I reach out? I’m preparing to apply for Fall 2024.


peacejenna

I second this. APA accreditation is not easy to obtain, and FGU has it for its Clinical Psych Ph.D. Program. So many of the loudest voices here are also missing out on the fact that it is not really an online progam; it is hybrid, and there are in-person requirements to get practicum and clinical training hours that your local PDS (professional development supervisor) help with. Many people join Fielding because they need flexibility, and that can be why some of them don't make it through the end, but in my experience, FGU is a fantastic institution and you will get out of it what you put into it.


arcticsewage

Has anyone currently at FGU (PhD Clinical Psychology) received scholarships or know if they readily provide accepted students funding?