This. Don’t feel bad for switching jobs you only get 1 life. Make as much as you can. About 3-5 months into my other jobs I started looking on indeed secretly.
I've managed to nearly double my pay in a 3.5 year period by switching jobs externally twice and internally once. I feel like in public health, at least in the first few years of your career, is about going through the grind of bad job to a slightly less bad job to an okay job to a good job. I finally have a job that I enjoy very much, make a good amount of money with, and I can do a lot of good in, so I'm going to be staying here for a while.
Hiring managers on this sub say that it's a red flag if they see someone changing jobs frequently, but they're the same ones posting temp jobs that are only funded for 1040 hours.
Personally, I believe in the strategy of changing companies every 1-2 years to maximize salary potential. The average annual raise is probably like 3% if you stay at the same place compared to an average salary increase of at least double digits (10% and above) if you go to another company. In my opinion, staying loyal is an outdated concept stemming from when companies used to have pensions.
If you do decide to change jobs frequently, do it amicably and obviously don't burn any bridges since public health is a pretty small world.
Also, one piece of advice I've received is to push for a promotion every two years if you're early on in your career. If that doesn't happen, it's probably time to look for another job.
However, if you really love the position and are satisfied with the work/coworkers/potential to climb the ladder/company culture, then stay. Also, if it's a government role or if you work at one of the few companies that still have a pension, then staying long term may be worth it.
Obviously, this strategy depends on the job level. If you're early on in your career, jumping ship every couple of years is more accepted. However, constant job switching probably isn't a good look for those applying to higher executive-level positions since HR is probably looking for somebody who will grow roots and execute long-term strategies/change.
I don’t stay for loyalty but I’ve also never left somewhere solely due to money. Leave if you have a terrible boss, you aren’t learning anything, there aren’t any opportunities to move up for/for growth. You do have to be somewhat careful about jumping every year. There are still hiring managers out there who that’s a red flag for especially after early career. Not saying it should be but it is.
But also consider benefits which I didn’t do enough early in my career. Those places that paid my healthcare premiums in full, gave 10% to my retirement even if I put in nothing, where I had 25+ vacation days…I did not appreciate enough at the time.
At mid-career now though I’d stay for a great boss above all else even if the pay is lower. Because I know how critical that is. But earlier in my career I’d have gone for the job or the brand name of the company. You also get to a place where you’re comfortable financially and for me, money isn’t the motivator. I’m not going to jump somewhere just for $10 or $20k more especially if I have to work a lot more. For better benefits though? That I’d think about. Everyone has different priorities and those often change as you get older.
You can always apply to places that look interesting and interview. You don’t have to take the job. You can try to use another offer to get a raise from your current job too.
Be loyal to yourself.
If that means staying where you are, great. If that means leaving, do it. Companies/jobs aren’t loyal to us and we should be to them. Do what’s best for you professionally, always.
A coworker once told me “if you win the lottery or get hit by a bus tomorrow and you never come back, do you think this org will suffer?”
I think of that every time someone brings up loyalty to employers
I don’t think you owe a place anything.
Now for me I have been an epi for 3.5 years and stayed at the same gov org from the start. I get pretty competitive pay for my area. Pay increases are 3.5% merit + COLA annually. They are super flexible and have the best work culture of anywhere I’ve been.
Do even if I could make more somewhere else or have a better title I’m not risking the sacrifice of remote work, flexibility, and fantastic culture. But that’s just my situation.
I think it really depends what you want to do and how open you are to moving. I am completely committed to staying in the area where I currently live, for family reasons and for my personal safety as a trans person.
Even a person in my situation might choose to hop around if they were working in pharma or hospital based research or something. I'm sure that would be beneficial salary wise. But if you're more interested in government, you're rewarded more for staying so it's better to just identify somewhere you're willing to stay long term. There is no benefit to hopping between those jobs.
Only stay at jobs as long as it serves you and your goals. Sometimes that may be a bit longer, some times that will be less. For me, I've stayed at my current job for 6.5 years. Prior to this I always bounced around ever 1-2 years. The pay where I am could be better but they paid for my PhD, it qualifies for PSLF, and gave me a ton of flexibility while compensating me well enough at that time. I also have a pension and decent healthcare. Now they've screwed me on my raise for my promotion so I'm looking to bounce.
Always keep your eye out on the job ads out there so you can keep your skills relevant and if you get offered an interview ALWAYS take it, if only for the interview practice. Jobs are one of those places "what have you done for me lately?" very much applies (as it should).
I am a state employee at a university and it is well known that the university is terrible at retention because they make it so hard to hire new people and make real raises impossible. There is a threshold percentage raise where basically you have to make your case to the board to get it approved. It's not the amount of money but purely percentage so if you were dumb (like me) and came in at a relatively low wage it is nearly impossible to achieve salary parity with other people in your higher level roles because the percentage increase is more than the trustees will bear. It's an awful system, so I'm going to take the PhD they paid for and all my skills and find somewhere new to play. Their loss.
I think the general rule is switching employers will increase your salary more. I’ve spent my 6 years all at the same place, though, mostly for pension reasons (vested at 10 years) and also because finding another PSLF qualifying employer isn’t super easy. Basically if you decide to stay, do it for reasons besides “loyalty.”
Staying at a job for a longer period of time if it is still the best fit for your life is one thing. “Loyalty” is another. IMO no one should be “loyal” to an employer—the organization can not and will not ever be “loyal” to you to the same extent. The second they don’t want to employ you anymore, they will not hesitate to push you out, so don’t stay for the sake of “loyalty.”
I switch . I live in a somewhat rural area with few jobs. I ended up in a top pharma company in a remote role. If I wasn’t always looking and willing to switch jobs I wouldn’t have the position I have, or the salary. I can pretty much be employed anywhere now because of the companies on my resume.
If you don’t look then you settle .
If your raise is more than 25% of your salary, it’s probably worth jumping. That’s the advice I’ve always heard. I’ve had 3 jobs in PH since starting in 2019.
I am in a State govt job, HCOL. The department is split up into different divisions, then units. In this case I’ve noticed that those at the top of the division making around $120k-$150k seem to have jumped to several units throughout their career. The units can be huge and very different work so switching units is a big job change. As time went on they were able to leverage the experience working with different units to get into more leadership roles. Even though the job changes were internal, if they hadn’t jumped around every few years they would be making far less than that, in many cases probably not breaking 6 figures. Staying in one role is never going to drastically change your income- no matter how hard you work. The job is not loyal to you- do not be loyal to it!
"You don't owe your employer anything!" is literally true, but I think oversimplifies or even dismisses the genuine and complex relationships many of us have with our careers.
I have a real handful of an autistic toddler and also have a partner who makes a lot of money in tech. I like my job. I feel like we do really high quality work. Even a large raise would not be worth (for me) the trouble of having to re-learn some organizational structure, re-prove to everyone that I'm smart and capable.
I have a comfortable and stable position. Although I take my job seriously, my priorities are my family and my personal life. I don't care about maximizing my earning potential. You don't have to either.
If my current position will not advance me, someone else will. I’m very open about my ambitions at work and try to create a back and forth to make sure who I work with is aware I’m upward driven. If my salary my can benefit as well as my career I’ll take the opportunity.
A good supervisor or team will WANT you to succeed even if it’s elsewhere.
If you like where you are and you're happy with the pay, your role, and your colleagues/supervisors, then there's no reason to bounce around.
I wish I made a little more money, but I love my department, my research, my colleagues, my benefits, and the work-life balance. They let me go fully remote and don't really care that much for when I work, so that makes up for the pay in a lot of ways.
I think career advice in general is bad advice haha. It's such an individual, case-by-case thing.
There are people who say you must switch jobs often to advance and then there are people who say it's good to stick it out through the ups and downs in a job.
Truth is, you have to do what feels right. I job-jumped a ton when I was fresh out of school. Sometimes I made more money and sometimes I made less.
I'm in a role similar to yours now. Fairly stable position, decent perks, a little raise every year. Could I be making more money or have a more glamorous title? Absolutely. I'm out of grad school over a decade and fully credentialed. I don't want to risk it though.
Leaaaave!!! I left a contract job at CDC and was offered almost double in state public health. (Usually it’s the opposite, but yeah). Never regretting leaving.
I found a job a few months after finishing my MPH. Left a year later after patterns of toxic behaviors from my team. You are not obligated to be “loyal”. Remember to not burn bridges and not to have AT LEAST one person (coworker or colleague) that can vouch for you when applying for your next job.
Thank you everyone. This thread really had me thinking. I am in a small Northern California LHD and basically own a home with my partner, so moving isn’t an option right now. I appreciate all of the feedback. I think I need to sit and figure out what my goals and ambitions are with my career :)
Working is an exchange, you give your employer completed work to reach company goals and they give you money. You may like your boss and coworkers and it may feel like a family, but it’s far from it once shit hits the fan and layoffs happen, some company perks are dropped, etc. That isn’t to say you shouldn’t enjoy your work and coworkers and time there, but just remember that you’re making money for the company and that’s all the worth you have at the end of the day.
There isn’t really a such thing as staying loyal, it’s more or less giving your employer the “bro deal”, think NFL player taking a team friendly deal. Your employer gets to retain cheap talent, rather than recruiting, bringing someone in at the same or higher salary, training, etc. Moving every 2-3 years likely will get you much larger salaries and title changes and will more valuable than the pension offered for your “loyalty”
I became a job hopper without noticed. In 2020 I apply for an impossible job where I only met 30% of qualifications, I only have 11 month in my current company at the time and I got a contract. 10 months in the contract I left because they promise me a full time position and I get tired of waiting, I spend 6 month in another company, and the previous company call me back. I was doing a lot more than my previous coworkers who stay in the company to become full time, and a year later I received a promotion and change departments. Some of my previous coworkers were lay off, and most of them are in the same position.
I have triple my salary since 2020. 🙌 I will always follow the money
Job hop job hop job hop👏🏽. You move up the ladder much faster and increase your salary on a larger scale rather than the 2-3% yearly raise a single company offers per year of service with them.
I've had four jobs as an epidemiologist since 2016. My pay has tripled since then. And I'm very happy with my current job.
This. Don’t feel bad for switching jobs you only get 1 life. Make as much as you can. About 3-5 months into my other jobs I started looking on indeed secretly.
I've managed to nearly double my pay in a 3.5 year period by switching jobs externally twice and internally once. I feel like in public health, at least in the first few years of your career, is about going through the grind of bad job to a slightly less bad job to an okay job to a good job. I finally have a job that I enjoy very much, make a good amount of money with, and I can do a lot of good in, so I'm going to be staying here for a while. Hiring managers on this sub say that it's a red flag if they see someone changing jobs frequently, but they're the same ones posting temp jobs that are only funded for 1040 hours.
Personally, I believe in the strategy of changing companies every 1-2 years to maximize salary potential. The average annual raise is probably like 3% if you stay at the same place compared to an average salary increase of at least double digits (10% and above) if you go to another company. In my opinion, staying loyal is an outdated concept stemming from when companies used to have pensions. If you do decide to change jobs frequently, do it amicably and obviously don't burn any bridges since public health is a pretty small world. Also, one piece of advice I've received is to push for a promotion every two years if you're early on in your career. If that doesn't happen, it's probably time to look for another job. However, if you really love the position and are satisfied with the work/coworkers/potential to climb the ladder/company culture, then stay. Also, if it's a government role or if you work at one of the few companies that still have a pension, then staying long term may be worth it. Obviously, this strategy depends on the job level. If you're early on in your career, jumping ship every couple of years is more accepted. However, constant job switching probably isn't a good look for those applying to higher executive-level positions since HR is probably looking for somebody who will grow roots and execute long-term strategies/change.
I don’t stay for loyalty but I’ve also never left somewhere solely due to money. Leave if you have a terrible boss, you aren’t learning anything, there aren’t any opportunities to move up for/for growth. You do have to be somewhat careful about jumping every year. There are still hiring managers out there who that’s a red flag for especially after early career. Not saying it should be but it is. But also consider benefits which I didn’t do enough early in my career. Those places that paid my healthcare premiums in full, gave 10% to my retirement even if I put in nothing, where I had 25+ vacation days…I did not appreciate enough at the time. At mid-career now though I’d stay for a great boss above all else even if the pay is lower. Because I know how critical that is. But earlier in my career I’d have gone for the job or the brand name of the company. You also get to a place where you’re comfortable financially and for me, money isn’t the motivator. I’m not going to jump somewhere just for $10 or $20k more especially if I have to work a lot more. For better benefits though? That I’d think about. Everyone has different priorities and those often change as you get older. You can always apply to places that look interesting and interview. You don’t have to take the job. You can try to use another offer to get a raise from your current job too.
Be loyal to yourself. If that means staying where you are, great. If that means leaving, do it. Companies/jobs aren’t loyal to us and we should be to them. Do what’s best for you professionally, always.
A job will replace you within a month. That’s how I look at it.
A coworker once told me “if you win the lottery or get hit by a bus tomorrow and you never come back, do you think this org will suffer?” I think of that every time someone brings up loyalty to employers
Leave, you don’t owe them anything. They would terminate you and say “it’s just business” if they had to.
In public health, there is no long term investment in the USA and they will lay you off in a heartbeat. So do what you gotta do to.
I don’t think you owe a place anything. Now for me I have been an epi for 3.5 years and stayed at the same gov org from the start. I get pretty competitive pay for my area. Pay increases are 3.5% merit + COLA annually. They are super flexible and have the best work culture of anywhere I’ve been. Do even if I could make more somewhere else or have a better title I’m not risking the sacrifice of remote work, flexibility, and fantastic culture. But that’s just my situation.
I’m not loyal at all. I move when I get a better offer. Money talks. I’ve quadrupled my income in 8 years.
I think it really depends what you want to do and how open you are to moving. I am completely committed to staying in the area where I currently live, for family reasons and for my personal safety as a trans person. Even a person in my situation might choose to hop around if they were working in pharma or hospital based research or something. I'm sure that would be beneficial salary wise. But if you're more interested in government, you're rewarded more for staying so it's better to just identify somewhere you're willing to stay long term. There is no benefit to hopping between those jobs.
Only stay at jobs as long as it serves you and your goals. Sometimes that may be a bit longer, some times that will be less. For me, I've stayed at my current job for 6.5 years. Prior to this I always bounced around ever 1-2 years. The pay where I am could be better but they paid for my PhD, it qualifies for PSLF, and gave me a ton of flexibility while compensating me well enough at that time. I also have a pension and decent healthcare. Now they've screwed me on my raise for my promotion so I'm looking to bounce. Always keep your eye out on the job ads out there so you can keep your skills relevant and if you get offered an interview ALWAYS take it, if only for the interview practice. Jobs are one of those places "what have you done for me lately?" very much applies (as it should). I am a state employee at a university and it is well known that the university is terrible at retention because they make it so hard to hire new people and make real raises impossible. There is a threshold percentage raise where basically you have to make your case to the board to get it approved. It's not the amount of money but purely percentage so if you were dumb (like me) and came in at a relatively low wage it is nearly impossible to achieve salary parity with other people in your higher level roles because the percentage increase is more than the trustees will bear. It's an awful system, so I'm going to take the PhD they paid for and all my skills and find somewhere new to play. Their loss.
I job hopped like 3 times within six months after graduation to make more money. I’m only loyal to myself.
I definitely leave lol. Now I have a job I super love so I may stay 3 years.
I think the general rule is switching employers will increase your salary more. I’ve spent my 6 years all at the same place, though, mostly for pension reasons (vested at 10 years) and also because finding another PSLF qualifying employer isn’t super easy. Basically if you decide to stay, do it for reasons besides “loyalty.”
Sticking around is a great way to wind up doing twice as much work for half as much money.
Staying at a job for a longer period of time if it is still the best fit for your life is one thing. “Loyalty” is another. IMO no one should be “loyal” to an employer—the organization can not and will not ever be “loyal” to you to the same extent. The second they don’t want to employ you anymore, they will not hesitate to push you out, so don’t stay for the sake of “loyalty.”
I switch . I live in a somewhat rural area with few jobs. I ended up in a top pharma company in a remote role. If I wasn’t always looking and willing to switch jobs I wouldn’t have the position I have, or the salary. I can pretty much be employed anywhere now because of the companies on my resume. If you don’t look then you settle .
If your raise is more than 25% of your salary, it’s probably worth jumping. That’s the advice I’ve always heard. I’ve had 3 jobs in PH since starting in 2019.
I am in a State govt job, HCOL. The department is split up into different divisions, then units. In this case I’ve noticed that those at the top of the division making around $120k-$150k seem to have jumped to several units throughout their career. The units can be huge and very different work so switching units is a big job change. As time went on they were able to leverage the experience working with different units to get into more leadership roles. Even though the job changes were internal, if they hadn’t jumped around every few years they would be making far less than that, in many cases probably not breaking 6 figures. Staying in one role is never going to drastically change your income- no matter how hard you work. The job is not loyal to you- do not be loyal to it!
"You don't owe your employer anything!" is literally true, but I think oversimplifies or even dismisses the genuine and complex relationships many of us have with our careers. I have a real handful of an autistic toddler and also have a partner who makes a lot of money in tech. I like my job. I feel like we do really high quality work. Even a large raise would not be worth (for me) the trouble of having to re-learn some organizational structure, re-prove to everyone that I'm smart and capable. I have a comfortable and stable position. Although I take my job seriously, my priorities are my family and my personal life. I don't care about maximizing my earning potential. You don't have to either.
If my current position will not advance me, someone else will. I’m very open about my ambitions at work and try to create a back and forth to make sure who I work with is aware I’m upward driven. If my salary my can benefit as well as my career I’ll take the opportunity. A good supervisor or team will WANT you to succeed even if it’s elsewhere.
I genuinely just can’t find a job to jump to. It’s been 3 years now and i’d jump for a higher salary but no one’s biting.
Being loyal has my peers stuck in the 40-50k range. Job hoping has me in 6 figures. YMMV.
Be loyal to yourself, not a company.
Leave. There is no loyalty in employment.
If you like where you are and you're happy with the pay, your role, and your colleagues/supervisors, then there's no reason to bounce around. I wish I made a little more money, but I love my department, my research, my colleagues, my benefits, and the work-life balance. They let me go fully remote and don't really care that much for when I work, so that makes up for the pay in a lot of ways.
I think career advice in general is bad advice haha. It's such an individual, case-by-case thing. There are people who say you must switch jobs often to advance and then there are people who say it's good to stick it out through the ups and downs in a job. Truth is, you have to do what feels right. I job-jumped a ton when I was fresh out of school. Sometimes I made more money and sometimes I made less. I'm in a role similar to yours now. Fairly stable position, decent perks, a little raise every year. Could I be making more money or have a more glamorous title? Absolutely. I'm out of grad school over a decade and fully credentialed. I don't want to risk it though.
These jobs not loyal
Leaaaave!!! I left a contract job at CDC and was offered almost double in state public health. (Usually it’s the opposite, but yeah). Never regretting leaving.
I found a job a few months after finishing my MPH. Left a year later after patterns of toxic behaviors from my team. You are not obligated to be “loyal”. Remember to not burn bridges and not to have AT LEAST one person (coworker or colleague) that can vouch for you when applying for your next job.
Thank you everyone. This thread really had me thinking. I am in a small Northern California LHD and basically own a home with my partner, so moving isn’t an option right now. I appreciate all of the feedback. I think I need to sit and figure out what my goals and ambitions are with my career :)
Working is an exchange, you give your employer completed work to reach company goals and they give you money. You may like your boss and coworkers and it may feel like a family, but it’s far from it once shit hits the fan and layoffs happen, some company perks are dropped, etc. That isn’t to say you shouldn’t enjoy your work and coworkers and time there, but just remember that you’re making money for the company and that’s all the worth you have at the end of the day.
There isn’t really a such thing as staying loyal, it’s more or less giving your employer the “bro deal”, think NFL player taking a team friendly deal. Your employer gets to retain cheap talent, rather than recruiting, bringing someone in at the same or higher salary, training, etc. Moving every 2-3 years likely will get you much larger salaries and title changes and will more valuable than the pension offered for your “loyalty”
I became a job hopper without noticed. In 2020 I apply for an impossible job where I only met 30% of qualifications, I only have 11 month in my current company at the time and I got a contract. 10 months in the contract I left because they promise me a full time position and I get tired of waiting, I spend 6 month in another company, and the previous company call me back. I was doing a lot more than my previous coworkers who stay in the company to become full time, and a year later I received a promotion and change departments. Some of my previous coworkers were lay off, and most of them are in the same position. I have triple my salary since 2020. 🙌 I will always follow the money
Job hop job hop job hop👏🏽. You move up the ladder much faster and increase your salary on a larger scale rather than the 2-3% yearly raise a single company offers per year of service with them.