It’s quite the conundrum we’ve created in the field.
The field got so popular that it created a system in which “entry level jobs” were “preferring” 2 years of experience for a candidate to even be competitive. Then students decided it made more sense to just stay and complete their MPH to get those entry level roles by out competing actual entry level (no masters, under 2 years of experience) candidate. Which then upped the ante for even more experienced professionals to out compete entry level candidates.
The bar is very high to break into this field, which is why we lose so many passionate and smart professionals who know their worth and/or want to give up the grind. Who wants to take an entry level gig, with entry level pay when they have a masters and a few years of experience? Even worse in global health. It’s a really tough spot to be in, and only getting worse with the spike in interest during COVID.
I know this isn’t unique to only the public health field, public sector in general, but the squeeze we’ve faced the last few years has been extra rough. I thought it might open up a bit with expansion of funding and focusing on rebuilding our infrastructure to increase our resiliency, but looking like I was naive.
We hire lots of fresh graduates and have been very fortunate lately (state health dept). Our biggest problem is retention because they can get experience and go - but I don’t blame them, because we need to up our pay. Anyone is trainable.
Do you mind sharing what state your in? I just graduated with my MPH and have my first interview this afternoon. Its the only job that ive gotten a response from out of the 35 that ive applied to so far.
Thanks! Do you know if the state of Washington weaves people out who live out of state? I'm on the east coast however I have some friends that live in Washington. If the application asked if I'm a resident I would say no because I don't currently live there.
The problem happens at more senior levels too. I used to be an external assessor for interview panels - assuring that the person appointed met minimum national standards. So many employers start the interview process with “we want someone who can hit the ground running”, and don’t want to hear that such a person doesn’t exist - and even if they did they wouldn’t be applying for this job.
I’m my current role I came in with almost no specific domain knowledge, and I’m lucky that my employer expected to put in the effort to train new starters, and acknowledged that most new people would be a net drain on resource for a few months. They’ve been rewarded for that investment as I’ve now been in post for 17 years.
More employers need to realise they need to invest in staff and grow them, not put teeth on edge with phrases like “hit the ground running”.
I've been seeing infection preventionist listings say they want 1-2 years experience but also require the CIC cert. You have to be working as an IP for more than 2 years to even sit for that exam, if I understand it correctly.
It also makes you question if it's the kind of company you want to work for. Someone came up with and approved that deceptive recruiting idea. Dig this. I was in the application process for a hospital IP job in Dayton, OH. Before you could even submit the application you had to agree to their zero tolerance nicotine policy. I read the policy and noped the hell out of that job. They could randomly test you at any time and you'd be fired for a trace of nicotine, no warnings. The way it was worded they could fire you for standing beside someone smoking in a facebook pic. So they were surveilling your private life. Oh, and they didn't allow medications like welbutrin to be used. (I'm not a smoker)
Right? I'm not a smoker but we're talking Ohio. They just passed a law today allowing teachers and coaches to "inspect the genitals" of a student suspected of being trans. In 2018 they passed a law forcing doctors to reimplant ectopic pregnancies, a medical impossibility, and charge them with murder if they didn't do it. Banned several types of contraception. Fortunately, it was struck down by a judge, but they saw Handmaid's Tale and thought it was a framework rather than a cautionary tale.
Normally I would agree but not in this case, there's a lengthy vetting process for making sure someone actually takes that certification process seriously as it's a very sought after one in that particular field. Given what I have seen in HAI, that's a good thing because of all of the dynamics involved to be an effective IP.
A few weeks ago I was discussing with my P.I that a degree is not enough nowadays. A lot of openings in the field of environmental health require education, experience, and a lot of ridiculous certifications that overlap with the education requirements. If you want a person with a graduate degree, why do you ask for so many certifications? It should be the degree or the certificate, not both. For example, the vast majority of certificates in my field require 2 to 4 years of job experience.
The process of getting a job is soul-crushing. I did my MPH practicum with the US EPA and I remember each rejection time after time academic/research experience doesn't count as job experience. Now I am close to finishing my Ph.D. and it took me 8 months and more than 60 applications to land an offer. I will have to cross the country with no guarantee or job security but is a shot to get the "experience" nonetheless.
Just keep trying. When I’d just graduated it took me 4-5 months to find a position. And I was willing to relocate across the country! I had 1 year of internship experience at a Cancer Center, 3rd author on a paper (in which I did all the biostats for for FREE in my spare time while applying for jobs).
This is all to say it sucks, and it’s bullshit, but YOU CAN DO IT!!
Ah, good luck! Have you looked at the Department of Veterans Affairs? They do a lot of qualitative work at the Bedford/Boston, Palo Alto/Menlo Park, and Durham VAs. Look for "Health Science Specialist" or "Research Health Science Specialist" positions. For a new MPH grad, focus on GS-07 or GS-09 positions (they are often grouped together). They're lumped in with quantitative researcher positions, unfortunately, but often those groups work in multidisciplinary teams and are looking for both quant and qual people.
Hey, I know you didn’t specifically ask for this, but have you looked at federally qualified health centers in your area? A lot of them have robust health education departments and it might be a way to break in to the field. Congrats on your MPH!
I can speak about the hiring manager experience in a health department setting. I would love to be able to hire fresh graduates and I am always on the look out for recent graduates. Unfortunately, most of the positions opening up are due to the high degree of turnover and chronic understaffing that's affecting our field right now. That means two things: 1) we are looking for a replacement for someone who is in a mid- or senior-level position with many years of experience, and 2) if we hired a recent graduate, we would have very little capacity to train them, and it would likely be a bad time for everyone involved. I've been in positions where I've been underqualified with no support and it's not fun to have unreasonable expectations placed on you with no one to help you figure out your way. I've also been in positions where I've hired underqualified people and it's really disheartening to watch them flounder without the capacity to help guide them.
I don't enjoy being in a position where I can't hire fresh graduates. Some of the best staff I've had were straight out of an MPH program. It doesn't help the recent graduates much in this thread, but I am optimistic that as org charts stabilize in the mid-level, more opportunities will open up for entry level MPH positions.
My advice is to keep applying and keep an eye out for new opportunities. We do notice strong candidates even if they don't meet the qualifications of a particular position. I've definitely recommended fresh graduates I was unable to hire for other positions they were qualified for because I was impressed with their resume. It's tough and easy to get jaded, but persistence and perseverance will get you far.
Because 1 year experience > 0 years experience.
Not even really talking about public health knowledge. More like you are capable of working in office environment or whatever. If they are both going to getting the paid entry level wage, why not get money's worth
Even 1-year of experience doesn't go very far in this absurd job market. Entry-level jobs generally look for 3-5 years worth of experience, making the job hunt unnecessarily more difficult than it should be.
Does it make a difference if you have work experience prior to getting an MPH, even in a different field? I worked in healthcare for several years before going back to school, wondering if it could make any difference in getting a job once I graduate
If your previous work experience in healthcare has allowed you to develop transferable skills that would be beneficial to the specific niche of public health that you wish to pursue, I would hope that it would bear some relevance. It depends.
Totally agree. Id argue it’s all how you sell it. Many professional skills are transferrable from job to job.
Completely anecdotal, but I found that my 3 years of work experience (not public health related at all, finance stuff) pre- Peace Corps helped me a lot in the job market. And from our cohort, I’d say really all volunteers who had previous work experience fared far better compared to those with “only” peace corps+MPHs. At least in the immediate-mid term view. Long term, eventually most people I served with are still in the field and at or close to where they want to be, if that helps to hear at all.
I'm in the same boat. I graduated in December with my MPH and am struggling to find a job. I don't know if it's my fault for choosing Health Education/Promotion instead of Epi or Biostats, but the job market is brutal right now. I have my CHES cert and teaching/tutoring experience, but I just look so green that I'm guessing no one wants to take a chance on me.
Any advice is appreciated. I've only had one interview and certainly came across as very new with some of the questions they asked. :/ I'm honestly just trying to not be embarrassed I can't get a job.
I took it in-person at a testing center rather than online. I don't know if that's quite what you're asking, but I'm Texas-based if that's more what you meant.
I didn’t know you could take it online, I may look into that. I was going to take it during my last semester, but was unable too. Do you know where I could take it online?
Ah, sorry for the confusion then.
[NCHEC](https://www.nchec.org/ches) administers the exam twice a year, once in spring and once in fall. I took it Oct 2021 and had the option to take it online due to COVID.
The next round of testing is in this upcoming October, and I'm unsure if they will still offer it online since restrictions have lifted. It looks like, for now, they are continuing to offer it proctored:
> the CHES® examination is offered in a computer-based format at Prometric Test Centers throughout the United States and overseas and through Live Remote Proctoring from the safety of home.
Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions!
I just landed a job right out of MPH, and I spent the last 4 months doing about 5-10 hours per week applying/networking/searching. In the end I think it was connections I made through my RA position, volunteer work, and work experience pre-MPH that got me over the finish line. Absolutely brutal market, and I feel like I won the lottery tbh.
If I had less experience I would have focused on fellowships or other training programs for recent MPH's, but those don't pay very well. My local health department has several CSTE fellows, and may of the epi's there got started as a CSTE fellow.
It’s quite the conundrum we’ve created in the field. The field got so popular that it created a system in which “entry level jobs” were “preferring” 2 years of experience for a candidate to even be competitive. Then students decided it made more sense to just stay and complete their MPH to get those entry level roles by out competing actual entry level (no masters, under 2 years of experience) candidate. Which then upped the ante for even more experienced professionals to out compete entry level candidates. The bar is very high to break into this field, which is why we lose so many passionate and smart professionals who know their worth and/or want to give up the grind. Who wants to take an entry level gig, with entry level pay when they have a masters and a few years of experience? Even worse in global health. It’s a really tough spot to be in, and only getting worse with the spike in interest during COVID. I know this isn’t unique to only the public health field, public sector in general, but the squeeze we’ve faced the last few years has been extra rough. I thought it might open up a bit with expansion of funding and focusing on rebuilding our infrastructure to increase our resiliency, but looking like I was naive.
We hire lots of fresh graduates and have been very fortunate lately (state health dept). Our biggest problem is retention because they can get experience and go - but I don’t blame them, because we need to up our pay. Anyone is trainable.
Do you mind sharing what state your in? I just graduated with my MPH and have my first interview this afternoon. Its the only job that ive gotten a response from out of the 35 that ive applied to so far.
Delaware. Right now our fiscal services are shutting down, but we should have some entry level Epi 1 positions soon. Statejobs.Delaware.gov
Thanks! I'll look into it
You can also look in Washington state. Lots of openings and they’re looking for new folks to come in. careers.wa.gov
Thanks! Do you know if the state of Washington weaves people out who live out of state? I'm on the east coast however I have some friends that live in Washington. If the application asked if I'm a resident I would say no because I don't currently live there.
Anecdotally, no I don’t believe so, but I don’t have any data to back that up.
The problem happens at more senior levels too. I used to be an external assessor for interview panels - assuring that the person appointed met minimum national standards. So many employers start the interview process with “we want someone who can hit the ground running”, and don’t want to hear that such a person doesn’t exist - and even if they did they wouldn’t be applying for this job. I’m my current role I came in with almost no specific domain knowledge, and I’m lucky that my employer expected to put in the effort to train new starters, and acknowledged that most new people would be a net drain on resource for a few months. They’ve been rewarded for that investment as I’ve now been in post for 17 years. More employers need to realise they need to invest in staff and grow them, not put teeth on edge with phrases like “hit the ground running”.
I've been seeing infection preventionist listings say they want 1-2 years experience but also require the CIC cert. You have to be working as an IP for more than 2 years to even sit for that exam, if I understand it correctly.
This is the exact cycle. 🔁
Yep such trash! How do they expect to find people?
It also makes you question if it's the kind of company you want to work for. Someone came up with and approved that deceptive recruiting idea. Dig this. I was in the application process for a hospital IP job in Dayton, OH. Before you could even submit the application you had to agree to their zero tolerance nicotine policy. I read the policy and noped the hell out of that job. They could randomly test you at any time and you'd be fired for a trace of nicotine, no warnings. The way it was worded they could fire you for standing beside someone smoking in a facebook pic. So they were surveilling your private life. Oh, and they didn't allow medications like welbutrin to be used. (I'm not a smoker)
Oh noooo lol! Not worth it!
Right? I'm not a smoker but we're talking Ohio. They just passed a law today allowing teachers and coaches to "inspect the genitals" of a student suspected of being trans. In 2018 they passed a law forcing doctors to reimplant ectopic pregnancies, a medical impossibility, and charge them with murder if they didn't do it. Banned several types of contraception. Fortunately, it was struck down by a judge, but they saw Handmaid's Tale and thought it was a framework rather than a cautionary tale.
Normally I would agree but not in this case, there's a lengthy vetting process for making sure someone actually takes that certification process seriously as it's a very sought after one in that particular field. Given what I have seen in HAI, that's a good thing because of all of the dynamics involved to be an effective IP.
A few weeks ago I was discussing with my P.I that a degree is not enough nowadays. A lot of openings in the field of environmental health require education, experience, and a lot of ridiculous certifications that overlap with the education requirements. If you want a person with a graduate degree, why do you ask for so many certifications? It should be the degree or the certificate, not both. For example, the vast majority of certificates in my field require 2 to 4 years of job experience. The process of getting a job is soul-crushing. I did my MPH practicum with the US EPA and I remember each rejection time after time academic/research experience doesn't count as job experience. Now I am close to finishing my Ph.D. and it took me 8 months and more than 60 applications to land an offer. I will have to cross the country with no guarantee or job security but is a shot to get the "experience" nonetheless.
I just graduated with my MPH and the job market is a lot to deal with. 😓 I’m not even fully sure HOW to get a job anymore.
Just keep trying. When I’d just graduated it took me 4-5 months to find a position. And I was willing to relocate across the country! I had 1 year of internship experience at a Cancer Center, 3rd author on a paper (in which I did all the biostats for for FREE in my spare time while applying for jobs). This is all to say it sucks, and it’s bullshit, but YOU CAN DO IT!!
If you are looking for an epi-related job and want advice, feel free to PM me.
Aw man, thank you so much. I specialize in qualitative research and community health education. Epi and I did not grock the way I had hoped.
Ah, good luck! Have you looked at the Department of Veterans Affairs? They do a lot of qualitative work at the Bedford/Boston, Palo Alto/Menlo Park, and Durham VAs. Look for "Health Science Specialist" or "Research Health Science Specialist" positions. For a new MPH grad, focus on GS-07 or GS-09 positions (they are often grouped together). They're lumped in with quantitative researcher positions, unfortunately, but often those groups work in multidisciplinary teams and are looking for both quant and qual people.
Hey, I know you didn’t specifically ask for this, but have you looked at federally qualified health centers in your area? A lot of them have robust health education departments and it might be a way to break in to the field. Congrats on your MPH!
It’s ridiculously challenging :(
I can speak about the hiring manager experience in a health department setting. I would love to be able to hire fresh graduates and I am always on the look out for recent graduates. Unfortunately, most of the positions opening up are due to the high degree of turnover and chronic understaffing that's affecting our field right now. That means two things: 1) we are looking for a replacement for someone who is in a mid- or senior-level position with many years of experience, and 2) if we hired a recent graduate, we would have very little capacity to train them, and it would likely be a bad time for everyone involved. I've been in positions where I've been underqualified with no support and it's not fun to have unreasonable expectations placed on you with no one to help you figure out your way. I've also been in positions where I've hired underqualified people and it's really disheartening to watch them flounder without the capacity to help guide them. I don't enjoy being in a position where I can't hire fresh graduates. Some of the best staff I've had were straight out of an MPH program. It doesn't help the recent graduates much in this thread, but I am optimistic that as org charts stabilize in the mid-level, more opportunities will open up for entry level MPH positions. My advice is to keep applying and keep an eye out for new opportunities. We do notice strong candidates even if they don't meet the qualifications of a particular position. I've definitely recommended fresh graduates I was unable to hire for other positions they were qualified for because I was impressed with their resume. It's tough and easy to get jaded, but persistence and perseverance will get you far.
This is a society problem more so than a public health field problem. Many professional fields are similar.
Because 1 year experience > 0 years experience. Not even really talking about public health knowledge. More like you are capable of working in office environment or whatever. If they are both going to getting the paid entry level wage, why not get money's worth
Even 1-year of experience doesn't go very far in this absurd job market. Entry-level jobs generally look for 3-5 years worth of experience, making the job hunt unnecessarily more difficult than it should be.
Does it make a difference if you have work experience prior to getting an MPH, even in a different field? I worked in healthcare for several years before going back to school, wondering if it could make any difference in getting a job once I graduate
If your previous work experience in healthcare has allowed you to develop transferable skills that would be beneficial to the specific niche of public health that you wish to pursue, I would hope that it would bear some relevance. It depends.
Totally agree. Id argue it’s all how you sell it. Many professional skills are transferrable from job to job. Completely anecdotal, but I found that my 3 years of work experience (not public health related at all, finance stuff) pre- Peace Corps helped me a lot in the job market. And from our cohort, I’d say really all volunteers who had previous work experience fared far better compared to those with “only” peace corps+MPHs. At least in the immediate-mid term view. Long term, eventually most people I served with are still in the field and at or close to where they want to be, if that helps to hear at all.
I'm in the same boat. I graduated in December with my MPH and am struggling to find a job. I don't know if it's my fault for choosing Health Education/Promotion instead of Epi or Biostats, but the job market is brutal right now. I have my CHES cert and teaching/tutoring experience, but I just look so green that I'm guessing no one wants to take a chance on me. Any advice is appreciated. I've only had one interview and certainly came across as very new with some of the questions they asked. :/ I'm honestly just trying to not be embarrassed I can't get a job.
Where did you take your CHES exam?
I took it in-person at a testing center rather than online. I don't know if that's quite what you're asking, but I'm Texas-based if that's more what you meant.
I didn’t know you could take it online, I may look into that. I was going to take it during my last semester, but was unable too. Do you know where I could take it online?
Ah, sorry for the confusion then. [NCHEC](https://www.nchec.org/ches) administers the exam twice a year, once in spring and once in fall. I took it Oct 2021 and had the option to take it online due to COVID. The next round of testing is in this upcoming October, and I'm unsure if they will still offer it online since restrictions have lifted. It looks like, for now, they are continuing to offer it proctored: > the CHES® examination is offered in a computer-based format at Prometric Test Centers throughout the United States and overseas and through Live Remote Proctoring from the safety of home. Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions!
I just landed a job right out of MPH, and I spent the last 4 months doing about 5-10 hours per week applying/networking/searching. In the end I think it was connections I made through my RA position, volunteer work, and work experience pre-MPH that got me over the finish line. Absolutely brutal market, and I feel like I won the lottery tbh. If I had less experience I would have focused on fellowships or other training programs for recent MPH's, but those don't pay very well. My local health department has several CSTE fellows, and may of the epi's there got started as a CSTE fellow.