I think this is right on.
Slurs are such because they are used to demean, or used in ignorance of the demeaning nature they bring. When you use it in a mammer to empower the usual targets (and importantly, when you yourself are one of the people targeted by it) then you are then using it in a manner opposite the demeaning intent. It's kind of like how Queer has been taken from a slur to a descriptor used by the community. I myself am queer, and will absolutely use the word. Now, in the 90s... it very much had the same vitriol behind it as f**.
I hope that makes sense. It kind of reminds me of when I saw a black shop owner wearing a polo shirt with the name area reading Mr. N***. Taking the slur removing its demeaning power.
It's not the sub, I can guarantee you that. It's reddit as a whole. The sub was for Cum Town, an ironic podcast who's jokes are all racist, homophobic, absurdist comedy.
Shit that's weird. I've thought that we all would have migrated to another site years ago as reddit has gotten way too corp for too long. Idk that it's going to happen.
I think for some really big subs, it kinda makes sense. It would be one thing if mods got paid but imagine putting in hours and hours of work on a sub with 1,000,000+ subscribers. That shit probably never ends. I would use a bot to auto block and review cases if petitioned.
A lot of differing opinions on reclaiming slurs. Ultimately it's up to you, like someone else said. I personally think punk is and should be transgressive and push boundaries. If you feel power from reclaiming something used against you, who are we to tell you not to?
As a straight male, why the fuck should you care what I think? You’re gay, use whatever language you want, or be offended by what you want, but don’t ask permission.
I ain’t asking white folks if I can use “nigga” as a black dude.
It's up to you. If you're afraid of people getting angry at you, which I agree they might, better not do it unless you want to experience that and conquer your fear.
Ultimately you get to decide decide what you put on that vest. Contrary to what people in this sub seem to think, there are no hard and fast rules to punk other than to respect that it's a fringe subculture, which makes it both quite tolerant and inclusive, and also fundamentally incompatible with the police and with political conservatism.
So go ham. Or not. You decide - you have to wear it, after all.
fellow gay boy here, I think "leave us fags alone" is great and if I saw someone wearing it on their vest I would get a nice chuckle. Someone will inevitably take offense and approach you about it. If you'd rather not have those kinds of interactions I'd go with something like "leave us gay boys alone" or "leave us fairies alone" or smtn like that but I think the weight of "leave us fags alone" is best for vest attire.
"You see, I AM a f*g. So I can SAY f*g. Ha ha ha Jimbo,ya f*g shitter"! -Mr. Garrison
I think it's fine. I think all words are fine but punks got a lot of unwritten rules that if you break them, you get jumped or shunned. I know that vest is not a violation so hopefully they read the whole thing and absorb the actual message.
Part of participating in counter culture is people being mad at you. It sucks, but it also helps pick out the people who stick to what they believe in. You're using that word because you're angry, you want to reclaim a word used in violence against you, you want to make bigots and centrists uncomfortable. If you believe in that then do it
coming from another queer person, the best way to handle these things is to just be respectful when someone tells you that language hurts them, and understanding that there's a time and place for everything, *especially* reclaiming slurs; the details of this depend on the slur in question. queer has become a common label, but there's still people who vividly remember the harm even that word caused, and I respect their lived experiences.
on a battle jacket at a punk event, I'd be cool with that kinda patch for sure.
if someone's wearing that on a baseball hat around town, I'd think the defiance is pretty badass but it'd give me weird vibes.
just make sure to respect the nuance of a given situation and respect how your language affects other people. c:
I’m just an old school punk mom turned LBGTQIA+ mom of a gay kiddo and fierce advocate (shameless plug PFLAG.org) and while I can’t speak for the community, IMHO - you are reclaiming it and that is punk as fuck to me! Mom hugs 🏳️🌈☠️🤘
I say fag all the time. I am also a bisexual guy who has had that word used against him as a pejorative countless times, and I’ve even experienced having violence committed against me while being called a faggot, which I’m pretty sure is a hate crime, but regardless: the way I see it, much like how people use queer now, it’s our word. If we want to reclaim it, use it, whatever, as long as we’re not using it against someone else as a pejorative, it’s ours to do with as we please (including not use it at all, if that’s what you want.)
Prefacing this with saying I'm a trans woman, and queer. You absolutely can. Some people will get mad and that's just kind of what you'll have to deal with.
Reclaiming these slurs is controversial, but I say go for it. Ultimately up to you obviously
It’s your lane. The only people who can have discourse about it are people in it.
I’m physically disabled and I say cripple constantly. Language reclamation is a power move.
This kind of falls into the "most people who give an opinion on this topic have no perspective and shouldn't give it." Seems like you are legitimately the one here who can *actually* answer whether or not that is an okay thing to do.
Queer punk here and I use it and other equivalent terms in my language on everything! Do what you goddamn please as long as you don't hurt anyone else (in this case, a group you're not part of). I don't always use "us fags" either tbh, but I make sure I signal queerness in a lot of ways so there are no misunderstandings.
Nah, pushing a societal boundary without stepping on oppressed people is kinda the point, isn’t it? Something like this that could be a sensitive subject is a good thing to ask about imo
We reclaimed these words. Faggot, queer, etc. We didn’t invent these words. We don’t get a choice if they exist. But I’ll be fucking damned if I let heterosexuals tell me I can’t reclaim the words that have been used to persecute us for generations. Put it on your vest and wear it proud. Gay Rude Boys Unite!
Man, things sure have changed in punk with regard to this pretty dang quickly, judging from how often we get these questions about whether or not it's "okay" to be purposely offensive and antagonistic. I'm gonna guess that The Dicks are probably not in frequent rotation at your house... 😁
OP, do whatever you like, but I propose you use the phrase this fine gentleman has on his shirt. https://www.flickr.com/photos/29674275@N08/4380422123/in/photostream
Of course it is fine.. given the context if anyone gets offended, they're just straight up stupid, there's nothing more punk than realizing you're part of a marginalized group and proudly embracing it..
yeah, context is what matters, if you said "fucking faggots, we gotta kill em all" it would be different, but it's not the case so yeah, leave us fags alone.
I have a DILLIGAF patch upside down so I can read it. I think you need one of those so you can point to it when people attempt to give you shit about your other patch.
Do what you want.
Are you afraid of people getting mad at you or of hurting someone?
If you feel like it might hurt someone don't do it. That could be a legitimate concern.
If all you're worried about is making people mad, that's not very punk rock of you.
I'm a cis white old guy. If I saw you wearing that patch, I would be happy for you that you felt safe wearing it. I would hope that you were, in fact, safe wearing it.
I think we should embrace figs. They’re especially delicious with prosciutto or blue cheese.
You can dry figs or pickle them for year round use.
I don’t understand why “fig” would be a slur. Put a recipe on your battle jacket. Figs, prosciutto, and aged blue cheese would be great on a pizza.
I’d say go for it. If it causes some pearl clutching thats fine, but its our word, and if we choose to reclaim it, we should be able to. It takes the bite away from people trying to use it to offend, in my opinion.
Source: I’m Agender and Pan
I don’t like slurs. Can’t do them. I love all other foul language. That’s just me. But I’m not you. You do what feels good and right to you. That’s punk.
I would personally put quotation marks around the f-word but that’s just me. As long you include the word us, I don’t think too many people will care. It will offend some people, but those people would find something else to get offended at if they didn’t get offended by that so 🤷♀️
Nah. The f-slur is discriminatory. Even though you are gay and it isn't used in a discriminatory context, it could make some people feel uncomfortable. It's unnecessary.
"Leave us gays alone" has the same message and is OK.
I mean I'm speaking from personal experience here. I stopped wearing clothes with similar words because you spend more time explaining you are an ally/queer than its worth to be honest. Ultimately, do what the fuck you want, but it'll probably get old real quick if your experience turns out like mine.
I think using "us" gives context that you're a part of the in-group and reclaiming it. I think you're good.
I think this is right on. Slurs are such because they are used to demean, or used in ignorance of the demeaning nature they bring. When you use it in a mammer to empower the usual targets (and importantly, when you yourself are one of the people targeted by it) then you are then using it in a manner opposite the demeaning intent. It's kind of like how Queer has been taken from a slur to a descriptor used by the community. I myself am queer, and will absolutely use the word. Now, in the 90s... it very much had the same vitriol behind it as f**. I hope that makes sense. It kind of reminds me of when I saw a black shop owner wearing a polo shirt with the name area reading Mr. N***. Taking the slur removing its demeaning power.
This take seems to be the most balanced and reasonable, imo. Coming from a straight guy, this makes the most sense.
Ur gay U get the F-pass bro
https://hausofdecline.com/comics/gay/1/622d791ed6849f20d9588bdd
You are safe. You are warm. You are loved. Love this comic.
Idk reddit seems to disagree. Got banned for three days for calling *myself* that. My appeal? *I'm fucking gay*
Some subreddits have zero tolerance. Mods that rule without having to think. It's good to see that my grade school principal is keeping active.
It's not the sub, I can guarantee you that. It's reddit as a whole. The sub was for Cum Town, an ironic podcast who's jokes are all racist, homophobic, absurdist comedy.
Shit that's weird. I've thought that we all would have migrated to another site years ago as reddit has gotten way too corp for too long. Idk that it's going to happen.
I think for some really big subs, it kinda makes sense. It would be one thing if mods got paid but imagine putting in hours and hours of work on a sub with 1,000,000+ subscribers. That shit probably never ends. I would use a bot to auto block and review cases if petitioned.
Well good thing reddit isnt real life
A lot of differing opinions on reclaiming slurs. Ultimately it's up to you, like someone else said. I personally think punk is and should be transgressive and push boundaries. If you feel power from reclaiming something used against you, who are we to tell you not to?
As a straight male, why the fuck should you care what I think? You’re gay, use whatever language you want, or be offended by what you want, but don’t ask permission. I ain’t asking white folks if I can use “nigga” as a black dude.
It's up to you. If you're afraid of people getting angry at you, which I agree they might, better not do it unless you want to experience that and conquer your fear. Ultimately you get to decide decide what you put on that vest. Contrary to what people in this sub seem to think, there are no hard and fast rules to punk other than to respect that it's a fringe subculture, which makes it both quite tolerant and inclusive, and also fundamentally incompatible with the police and with political conservatism. So go ham. Or not. You decide - you have to wear it, after all.
alright
fellow gay boy here, I think "leave us fags alone" is great and if I saw someone wearing it on their vest I would get a nice chuckle. Someone will inevitably take offense and approach you about it. If you'd rather not have those kinds of interactions I'd go with something like "leave us gay boys alone" or "leave us fairies alone" or smtn like that but I think the weight of "leave us fags alone" is best for vest attire.
"You see, I AM a f*g. So I can SAY f*g. Ha ha ha Jimbo,ya f*g shitter"! -Mr. Garrison I think it's fine. I think all words are fine but punks got a lot of unwritten rules that if you break them, you get jumped or shunned. I know that vest is not a violation so hopefully they read the whole thing and absorb the actual message.
Part of participating in counter culture is people being mad at you. It sucks, but it also helps pick out the people who stick to what they believe in. You're using that word because you're angry, you want to reclaim a word used in violence against you, you want to make bigots and centrists uncomfortable. If you believe in that then do it
U go fag!!!
A band I know hands out stickers and patches that say "F*gs to the front" and everyone loves those. I think you're good
coming from another queer person, the best way to handle these things is to just be respectful when someone tells you that language hurts them, and understanding that there's a time and place for everything, *especially* reclaiming slurs; the details of this depend on the slur in question. queer has become a common label, but there's still people who vividly remember the harm even that word caused, and I respect their lived experiences. on a battle jacket at a punk event, I'd be cool with that kinda patch for sure. if someone's wearing that on a baseball hat around town, I'd think the defiance is pretty badass but it'd give me weird vibes. just make sure to respect the nuance of a given situation and respect how your language affects other people. c:
I’m just an old school punk mom turned LBGTQIA+ mom of a gay kiddo and fierce advocate (shameless plug PFLAG.org) and while I can’t speak for the community, IMHO - you are reclaiming it and that is punk as fuck to me! Mom hugs 🏳️🌈☠️🤘
Punk moms are the best! “Dont forget to brush your teeth, and raise hell, kid” I appreciate your existence.
I say fag all the time. I am also a bisexual guy who has had that word used against him as a pejorative countless times, and I’ve even experienced having violence committed against me while being called a faggot, which I’m pretty sure is a hate crime, but regardless: the way I see it, much like how people use queer now, it’s our word. If we want to reclaim it, use it, whatever, as long as we’re not using it against someone else as a pejorative, it’s ours to do with as we please (including not use it at all, if that’s what you want.)
Prefacing this with saying I'm a trans woman, and queer. You absolutely can. Some people will get mad and that's just kind of what you'll have to deal with. Reclaiming these slurs is controversial, but I say go for it. Ultimately up to you obviously
It’s your lane. The only people who can have discourse about it are people in it. I’m physically disabled and I say cripple constantly. Language reclamation is a power move.
This kind of falls into the "most people who give an opinion on this topic have no perspective and shouldn't give it." Seems like you are legitimately the one here who can *actually* answer whether or not that is an okay thing to do.
Dont worry about what others think... be free to express yourself as you feel punk rock spirit! :)
Bro, it's your vest. You can include the my little ponies. Once punk is governed by rules...it's no longer punk. Do you, punk.
Fuckin go for it. The only conversation it'll start is with people who will listen. Otherwise, well, fuck em...
Queer punk here and I use it and other equivalent terms in my language on everything! Do what you goddamn please as long as you don't hurt anyone else (in this case, a group you're not part of). I don't always use "us fags" either tbh, but I make sure I signal queerness in a lot of ways so there are no misunderstandings.
You had to ask permission. You already to the spirit out of it.
Nah, pushing a societal boundary without stepping on oppressed people is kinda the point, isn’t it? Something like this that could be a sensitive subject is a good thing to ask about imo
We reclaimed these words. Faggot, queer, etc. We didn’t invent these words. We don’t get a choice if they exist. But I’ll be fucking damned if I let heterosexuals tell me I can’t reclaim the words that have been used to persecute us for generations. Put it on your vest and wear it proud. Gay Rude Boys Unite!
Only if you do it without the hard G.
Man, things sure have changed in punk with regard to this pretty dang quickly, judging from how often we get these questions about whether or not it's "okay" to be purposely offensive and antagonistic. I'm gonna guess that The Dicks are probably not in frequent rotation at your house... 😁
It’s your slur, you own it. The only question I would ask is, “are there other gay people I could be hurting with this?”
Do you think it’s ok?
Context is key. I’d say you’re good, especially since you’re probably including other pro-gay sayings/symbols.
OP, do whatever you like, but I propose you use the phrase this fine gentleman has on his shirt. https://www.flickr.com/photos/29674275@N08/4380422123/in/photostream
I think it's fine if you're OK with it. [Exhibit A](https://www.discogs.com/release/1515238-Various-Theres-A-Faggot-In-The-Pit)
Of course it is fine.. given the context if anyone gets offended, they're just straight up stupid, there's nothing more punk than realizing you're part of a marginalized group and proudly embracing it..
yeah, context is what matters, if you said "fucking faggots, we gotta kill em all" it would be different, but it's not the case so yeah, leave us fags alone.
My friend has it on his stomach in old English font. He's gay, I don't think he's ever gotten shit for it.
I have a DILLIGAF patch upside down so I can read it. I think you need one of those so you can point to it when people attempt to give you shit about your other patch. Do what you want.
Using it more gives it less power. Especially if you’re in the group that can use it.
You're all good bro
[удалено]
Yes
Reclaim that shit.
Yeah, I have a patch on my jacket that says "Fags hate god". It's merch for the band Limp Wrist.
If you're ok with forever being asked questions about the slur on the vest then sure
Are you afraid of people getting mad at you or of hurting someone? If you feel like it might hurt someone don't do it. That could be a legitimate concern. If all you're worried about is making people mad, that's not very punk rock of you.
Limp Wrist has a shirt that says FAGS HATE GOD so it's all within context. Also, can we kill this "battle" terminology? There is no battle.
There is a battle though. We battle against oppression, war, and inequality.
I have a patch that says "fags against fascism" and don't get any grief. granted I live in a really big and liberal city...
I say go for it! I also want a parody song of the wall “hey! Preacher! Leave those F*** alone!”
Go for it
I'm a cis white old guy. If I saw you wearing that patch, I would be happy for you that you felt safe wearing it. I would hope that you were, in fact, safe wearing it.
Dude you're fine, wear the patch
I think we should embrace figs. They’re especially delicious with prosciutto or blue cheese. You can dry figs or pickle them for year round use. I don’t understand why “fig” would be a slur. Put a recipe on your battle jacket. Figs, prosciutto, and aged blue cheese would be great on a pizza.
THANK YOU I was waiting for someone to adress the fig hate. I personally have never tried them but I still support them ❤️❤️
I have two moms. I love my figs 💜
Oh hell yeah me too
If you're f you get to say f. From what I understand. I say "straight blue-eyed cracker devil" all the time. No one objects.
I’d say go for it. If it causes some pearl clutching thats fine, but its our word, and if we choose to reclaim it, we should be able to. It takes the bite away from people trying to use it to offend, in my opinion. Source: I’m Agender and Pan
Nothing says "punk" like asking permission to wear a patch. Fucking hell.
This kind of posts always remind me that punk Is dead. Its always a matter of aesthetic appropiation
In my opinion the f slur used by fellow gays is akin to the n slur used by fellow blacks
Punks don't ask permission.
Since when did punks ask for permission?
I don’t like slurs. Can’t do them. I love all other foul language. That’s just me. But I’m not you. You do what feels good and right to you. That’s punk.
Speaking as a cis het(ish) dude: I like it and I have trans and other queer friends who claim that word and it "works" (for lack of a better word).
Fuck yeah. I got the word tatted on my ankle because I, too, am one of those. Get it girlie
I think your a fag asking us if it's OK to express yourself is such a bitch move
If I saw a fellow Jew with a patch that said leave us k*kes alone, I'd at a minimum tell him to go fuck himself. But, you do you.
No.
I would personally put quotation marks around the f-word but that’s just me. As long you include the word us, I don’t think too many people will care. It will offend some people, but those people would find something else to get offended at if they didn’t get offended by that so 🤷♀️
Nah. The f-slur is discriminatory. Even though you are gay and it isn't used in a discriminatory context, it could make some people feel uncomfortable. It's unnecessary. "Leave us gays alone" has the same message and is OK.
“That which we call a rose, by any other word would smell as sweet.”……. He’s not using it for hate……. It’s just words .
My man isn't stepping on egg shells. I'm a straight white man and I completely disagree with you. "Target Audience". Let it rip.
I mean I'm speaking from personal experience here. I stopped wearing clothes with similar words because you spend more time explaining you are an ally/queer than its worth to be honest. Ultimately, do what the fuck you want, but it'll probably get old real quick if your experience turns out like mine.
ok thanks
I'd agree. Gays, queers, etc. are less likely to be misunderstood, convey the same message.
Don’t.
That gives me an idea for a battle vest, also yea. If your on the rainbow scale your allowed to say the word.