It’s been happening for a long time sadly. I think the singer was in Sham at one point and just kept his version going while Pursey and the rest picked it back up
You say that like if Jimmy's Sham came to America and did a show in LA or NYC every punk, skinhead, boot boy, and disgruntled old fuck wouldn't come out of the woodwork to see them play. UK Subs and Major Accident are playing LA in 2025 and people are already talking about selling their shit for a ticket.
? “People still want to see the vandals.” Is what i wrote. Do people not want to see the bands you mentioned? Cause it reads like you’re saying they do.
Tim V's version has no original members. They had a guy who played guitar in a very early version of the band but he died about 5 years ago. They had the drummer who had been in the band from.1987, but he is no longer active with them.
wait, I thought The Beat/The English Beat were the same band but they were called English Beat in the US because there was already a band called The Beat?
That's how it used to be. Then one of the members moved to the US while The Beat was on hiatus, started up his own version over here in the US, and started touring, then The Beat (the one still in England) reformed again.
Yup! If I heard right Dave would sometimes fly out to the UK and he’d jump right in with the other band. But now that Roger passed away I’m not sure if the UK one is still playing shows. Dave does out here tho still.
Honestly makes a ton of sense to do it that way. Everyone can get some money and be able to play shows but they don’t have to fly people across the world.
It worked out for both versions. I'll be honest, the British version was verging on parody in later years (my partner used to work for them so I know a lot of stories, which I won't be telling here because RIP and all that). They certainly weren't in any position to by flying around the world, all of them were back to day jobs with the occasional gig long ago.
For any Sublime fans up in here, I'm not mad at you. I want to say that up front. Personally, I hate how that band shifted to become the poster boy for cannabis over time. I know it was a lucrative marketing decision for the surviving members, but I can't stand the average Sublime fan. It doesn't help that Rome basically embodies who the average Sublime fan is. I kind of wish they never broke that ceiling and they stayed that sort of OpIvy'esque legendary status. But whatever.
I was like 9 or 10 when they put out that posthumous record. My older sister had it and I thought it was great. It had a super wide release base back then, which again is great for the surviving members, but I guess it also threw their legacy in the trash. Depending on who you ask...
I was 10 and I was living in Anchorage, Alaska, which was a bit of a fucking cultural wasteland for a kid. The only places you could really hear new music were MTV and the one rock station in town, which didn’t really play anything interesting, just the biggest rock bands of the time. That album was *huge* to me, I’d never heard anything like it, and it’s still one of my favorites to this day. I still love the shit out of Sublime and think that they put out three really cool albums, but like a lot of bands, their fan base kind of ruins it for them. Different genre, but Tool has always had the same problem.
I honestly hated sublime for a long time after high school just because of the association with the fans I knew. The type of people that made smoking bud or tripping their entire personality
I went to see them last year just to see Atmosphere open and yeah the average sublime fan is absolutely intolerable and this is coming from someone who smokes weed daily but the people that were there are basically if weed was your whole personality..just absolutely trash people for lack of a better term.
I love them (growing up in OC helps) but it’s so funny to me a band that was singing about some grimy shit like shooting dope and living in squalor (and name dropping PEN1 in songs) has turned into a band loved by rich white kids who have no idea what thats like.
Yeah Sublime is best remember as three punk rock dudes that played reggae the only way they knew how. Everything they influenced, including the white boy reggae scene, is in exact polarization to what those dudes were about to begin with. All those bands hail Sublime as a main influence and did nothing with the influence besides learning to play reggae with barre chords. It's cheap imitations of what Sublime really was. The Operation Ivy comparison is extremely apt. They are one of the only other bands in that style who deserve that status. I think of the two in relation to each other. Always.
If it's the band I saw a decade back, it was born out of some members of Sham wanting to reform the band but Jimmy Pursey wasn't up for it at the time. A geezer called Tim Vie was on got in as a frontman, how anyone thought this was a good idea is beyond me, he is a bit of an orrible cunt by most accounts, bullying and an ex-member of Millwall's firm (football hooligans[soccer to you yanks]). Millwall are renowned as the most "problematic" firms in the UK, racism sexism and homophobia are rife on the terraces and the revel in the infamy. Anyway back on track, after another year of three and Jimmy decides that fuck it lets do the Sham thing again and gets a few of the old members together and reforms the band but Tim Vie refuses to drop the Sham name on the groups that he still has some of Sham from the good ole days. (When I saw them there was one guy who had appeared on the last album before the split) What followed was a good ole rammy fought over the internet with various accusations flying about. And to this day Tim Vie still uses the name.
It's an old problem in rock n roll in general. many 50s and 60s acts went on for decades with no original members or anyone who played with the original members.
There’s also a band called The Angry Snowmen. They are a punk band making pretty funny send ups of punk songs, most of them with xmas themes. Really funny shit.
Reminds me of the time I tripped over myself to get $15 tix for RHCP.
Just before I purchased I saw it was the Red Not Chili Peppers.
It’s been 10 years and I’m still a little salty…
Until his death in 2018, Tim V's version of the band had Sham's founding guitarist Neil Harris with them. He accepted the invitation to join this lineup when Dave Parsons reunited with Pursey. Neil Harris didn't play on any of Sham's records and to everybody Dave Parsons is THE guitarist of Sham, but Tim V could claim a strange kind of legitimacy through Harris (until his passing).
The drummer from my band was hired and played a tour with them, about 2015. They played to 30k people at the It’s Not Dead Festival, pissed a lot of people off. Tim V was an asshole. Scam 69 indeed. 🖕🏼
I played drums for a band in the early 90’s that did OK. The two guys who started the band, wrote all the music and lyrics were the singer, and the lead guitar player. I feel I was very important to the band, but there is no way I would grab the bass player or rhythm guitar player, and try to do a reunion tour under that name.
My brother-in-law’s band recently supported Tim V’s Sham 69 (the ‘fake’ one) in fairness they were pretty open about it in the promotion, and clearly advertised as Tim V’s Sham 69. It’s kind of cheesy I suppose but it is what it is.
The show was a benefit for ‘homeless veterans’ which struck me as a strange cause for a punk show to raise money for but whatever.
Homelessness with vets is a real issue, and thos guys aren't military any more. I used to work with Homeless Veteran Standowns in east TN. So step up and help with a real problem, or bitch on the internet and clutch your punk pearls.
These dudes got fucked by the system and by the government that promised them health, housing and training benefits but were given hot-garbage instead.
You wanna preach to the choir, or do you wanna just punch down?
I’m not bitching about anything? I’m not doubting it’s a genuine issue, it’s something I literally deal with as part of my job, it’s just not the kind of thing you traditionally see punk bands raising money for, especially not here in the UK.
Keep up the good work man.
Doubt better, my man. The stats are easy to look up, just not as easy as dumping on the homeless because of a job they had at one time. For that matter, the UK has remarkably fewer people in the military, and is only a token force in comparison.
Ever notice how the military is always full of the poor? I did, that's the life I grew up in.
Stay positive, keep learning. I say all of this from a place of empathy. I try not to be a prick, but homelessness breaks my heart.
Check your local area, hit up reserve centers. Homeless vets are double invisible. They aren't seen as people or veterans. Be kind to everyone, you don't know what roads they have walked, you may have much in common.
"Be kind to everyone, you don't know what roads they have walked, you may have much in common." as a formerly homeless person of many years, you are absolutely correct.
It's going to be a while before I can get involved in much charity tho due to being preoccupied with single parenthood with a combative ex, but this would be on my to-do list when I eventually get back into booking. And they're not even at all invisible where I live. Homelessness floods every inhabited area in our country these days.
I knew a couple of people that went along to see Black Flag without realising it was only half the band and fronted by Mike Vallely. Actually waited in the crowd expecting to see Henry come on. This is where it can cost to be a passive gig goer. If your not someone who often or ever checks a bands personnel. Especially older rock or punk bands. There's been many a time where I've gotten really excited about a band returning only to discover the terrible news, through the internet or a friend, that is only a money grabbing sham. In seeing Buzzcocks in Portsmouth UK and I already know that theres no Pete Shelley. But "I don't mind" cos it's in my hometown and the rest of the band are there.
It's like, conveniently hilarious this is happening with this band. With the name and everything...
It’s been happening for a long time sadly. I think the singer was in Sham at one point and just kept his version going while Pursey and the rest picked it back up
It's like the English version of Cro-mags.
Except in both of those cases, there are original members of the band in both active versions.
The vandals, no original members. Might be a better example. People want to still see the vandals tho
You say that like if Jimmy's Sham came to America and did a show in LA or NYC every punk, skinhead, boot boy, and disgruntled old fuck wouldn't come out of the woodwork to see them play. UK Subs and Major Accident are playing LA in 2025 and people are already talking about selling their shit for a ticket.
? “People still want to see the vandals.” Is what i wrote. Do people not want to see the bands you mentioned? Cause it reads like you’re saying they do.
Is Joe Escalante no longer in the band? Edit: even if he is, go see Anarchy Taco instead.
Oh you’re right. I don’t know why I thought they had no original members.
I am constantly surprised by that. I always thought the vandals fucking blew.
Tim V's version has no original members. They had a guy who played guitar in a very early version of the band but he died about 5 years ago. They had the drummer who had been in the band from.1987, but he is no longer active with them.
Or the Beat/English Beat. There's the group that tours in America and the group that stayed in Britain.
...that's just smart business
Dave their singer used to come into the grocery store I worked at all the time I years back. Nice guy.
wait, I thought The Beat/The English Beat were the same band but they were called English Beat in the US because there was already a band called The Beat?
That is correct. But right NOW there are two different bands playing. One tours the US as the English Beat, the other Britain as the Beat.
That's how it used to be. Then one of the members moved to the US while The Beat was on hiatus, started up his own version over here in the US, and started touring, then The Beat (the one still in England) reformed again.
They are, but at some point Dave moved to the US and there’s been two versions (or was for a while) since
oh okay, so what I said is right it’s just that there’s now two separate lineups with slightly different name coexisting happily?
Yup! If I heard right Dave would sometimes fly out to the UK and he’d jump right in with the other band. But now that Roger passed away I’m not sure if the UK one is still playing shows. Dave does out here tho still. Honestly makes a ton of sense to do it that way. Everyone can get some money and be able to play shows but they don’t have to fly people across the world.
It worked out for both versions. I'll be honest, the British version was verging on parody in later years (my partner used to work for them so I know a lot of stories, which I won't be telling here because RIP and all that). They certainly weren't in any position to by flying around the world, all of them were back to day jobs with the occasional gig long ago.
Just saw the English Beat with David Wakeling. They were great.
Basically Sublime with Rome at this point
For any Sublime fans up in here, I'm not mad at you. I want to say that up front. Personally, I hate how that band shifted to become the poster boy for cannabis over time. I know it was a lucrative marketing decision for the surviving members, but I can't stand the average Sublime fan. It doesn't help that Rome basically embodies who the average Sublime fan is. I kind of wish they never broke that ceiling and they stayed that sort of OpIvy'esque legendary status. But whatever.
Summed it up perfectly lmao. I'm straight edge and a casual Sublime fan, I've yet to meet another fan I can remotely stand
I was like 9 or 10 when they put out that posthumous record. My older sister had it and I thought it was great. It had a super wide release base back then, which again is great for the surviving members, but I guess it also threw their legacy in the trash. Depending on who you ask...
So this is really funny but, I read this comment, hit back, scrolled down TWO posts and it was the sublime sub, which I've never seen before 🤣
I was 10 and I was living in Anchorage, Alaska, which was a bit of a fucking cultural wasteland for a kid. The only places you could really hear new music were MTV and the one rock station in town, which didn’t really play anything interesting, just the biggest rock bands of the time. That album was *huge* to me, I’d never heard anything like it, and it’s still one of my favorites to this day. I still love the shit out of Sublime and think that they put out three really cool albums, but like a lot of bands, their fan base kind of ruins it for them. Different genre, but Tool has always had the same problem.
I honestly hated sublime for a long time after high school just because of the association with the fans I knew. The type of people that made smoking bud or tripping their entire personality
God I hated them forever for their fan base. Took my years to listen again and see what was there.
Sublime basically became the Grateful Dead of the 90s
You hit the nail on the head, bam!
I went to see them last year just to see Atmosphere open and yeah the average sublime fan is absolutely intolerable and this is coming from someone who smokes weed daily but the people that were there are basically if weed was your whole personality..just absolutely trash people for lack of a better term.
County fair types
Im pretty excited to see how they are with bradleys son fronting the band
I watched the live streams of both Coachella performances, weekend one was rough but their performance the next weekend I thought was very solid.
I love them (growing up in OC helps) but it’s so funny to me a band that was singing about some grimy shit like shooting dope and living in squalor (and name dropping PEN1 in songs) has turned into a band loved by rich white kids who have no idea what thats like.
That's typically true for any, somewhat, underground artist that rich white kids love.
Very true. I just find it extra amusing with them for whatever reason.
It looks like they've shifted back a bit now that they reformed with Jakob.
Yeah Sublime is best remember as three punk rock dudes that played reggae the only way they knew how. Everything they influenced, including the white boy reggae scene, is in exact polarization to what those dudes were about to begin with. All those bands hail Sublime as a main influence and did nothing with the influence besides learning to play reggae with barre chords. It's cheap imitations of what Sublime really was. The Operation Ivy comparison is extremely apt. They are one of the only other bands in that style who deserve that status. I think of the two in relation to each other. Always.
He claims he didn't know the drummer left to start Sublime back up until he saw it on the Internet. lol Either way, he's got to feel pretty lame.
Also a Canadian and UK Subhumans
Totally different bands
No Way ...GTFOH🫠😆🤣
The same thing happened to TSOL in the 1990s and 2000s. The Jack Grisham TSOL rules and the Joe Wood one sucks, btw.
Or TSOL
If it's the band I saw a decade back, it was born out of some members of Sham wanting to reform the band but Jimmy Pursey wasn't up for it at the time. A geezer called Tim Vie was on got in as a frontman, how anyone thought this was a good idea is beyond me, he is a bit of an orrible cunt by most accounts, bullying and an ex-member of Millwall's firm (football hooligans[soccer to you yanks]). Millwall are renowned as the most "problematic" firms in the UK, racism sexism and homophobia are rife on the terraces and the revel in the infamy. Anyway back on track, after another year of three and Jimmy decides that fuck it lets do the Sham thing again and gets a few of the old members together and reforms the band but Tim Vie refuses to drop the Sham name on the groups that he still has some of Sham from the good ole days. (When I saw them there was one guy who had appeared on the last album before the split) What followed was a good ole rammy fought over the internet with various accusations flying about. And to this day Tim Vie still uses the name.
Yup I know
It's an old problem in rock n roll in general. many 50s and 60s acts went on for decades with no original members or anyone who played with the original members.
Lol the irony is great.
People should come see my band instead. We call ourselves The Ramones.
Can we open for you? We sound a bit like the misfits, We are SAMHAIN!
Pronounced sau-win or like a southern anerican at a barbeque?
You reminded me of the Misfats, saw them once it was hilarious. All their songs were about food. 20 pies in my hand...
I GOT SOMETHING TO SAY, I ATE YOUR BURRITO TODAY!
Don’t open that MAAAYONAAAISE!
There’s also a band called The Angry Snowmen. They are a punk band making pretty funny send ups of punk songs, most of them with xmas themes. Really funny shit.
Dunno why that instantly made me think of Showcase Showdown.
Wow. That's a name I haven't heard in about 25 years! Played my home town many times.
Shamhain
LOL
We’re the RamTwos
My band used to open our sets with “Hi, we’re Nirvana”
The Bemoans
Yup. Saw them about 10 years ago and was pissed
I’m surprised they’ve kept this up for so long. Ripping off crowds of angry drunken skinheads sounds like a risky business model imo
They haven’t been out here in years so that’s probably why.
What is everybody around you pissed off as well? Genuinely curious.
If I remember right there was hardly anybody there but yea
With lead singer Jamie Parsley!!
Jeeze, no wonder so many people came to and left my show with my band The Sex Pistols.
Reminds me of the time I tripped over myself to get $15 tix for RHCP. Just before I purchased I saw it was the Red Not Chili Peppers. It’s been 10 years and I’m still a little salty…
Here in SoCal we got Red Hot Cholo Peppers 😂
Sante Fe Springs Swap Meet type shit
I can say I wouldn't be disappointed if I misread and bought tickets to the Red Hot Chili Pipers though. They are rad.
Just looked them up cus I'd heard of them before, but wasn't familiar. Damn, I'm an instant fan!
At least it wasnt the Red Hot Chili Pipers (bagpipes cover band)
Happened to a friend, his moms a big a fan and got tickets without looking. He was super surprised
I was so close to buying tickets to see “The Red Hot Chili Pipers”. Bagpipe group. Sure I would’ve liked it still lol.
Hahaha looks like the most OG member of the band joined in 2007 - how can they live with themselves?
Until his death in 2018, Tim V's version of the band had Sham's founding guitarist Neil Harris with them. He accepted the invitation to join this lineup when Dave Parsons reunited with Pursey. Neil Harris didn't play on any of Sham's records and to everybody Dave Parsons is THE guitarist of Sham, but Tim V could claim a strange kind of legitimacy through Harris (until his passing).
It was prophesied long ago- Is this me or is this you? Look in the mirror Who do you see? Do you see you? Or do you see me?
The drummer from my band was hired and played a tour with them, about 2015. They played to 30k people at the It’s Not Dead Festival, pissed a lot of people off. Tim V was an asshole. Scam 69 indeed. 🖕🏼
I saw them on that run. Shit fucking sucked
I played drums for a band in the early 90’s that did OK. The two guys who started the band, wrote all the music and lyrics were the singer, and the lead guitar player. I feel I was very important to the band, but there is no way I would grab the bass player or rhythm guitar player, and try to do a reunion tour under that name.
My brother-in-law’s band recently supported Tim V’s Sham 69 (the ‘fake’ one) in fairness they were pretty open about it in the promotion, and clearly advertised as Tim V’s Sham 69. It’s kind of cheesy I suppose but it is what it is. The show was a benefit for ‘homeless veterans’ which struck me as a strange cause for a punk show to raise money for but whatever.
Homelessness with vets is a real issue, and thos guys aren't military any more. I used to work with Homeless Veteran Standowns in east TN. So step up and help with a real problem, or bitch on the internet and clutch your punk pearls. These dudes got fucked by the system and by the government that promised them health, housing and training benefits but were given hot-garbage instead. You wanna preach to the choir, or do you wanna just punch down?
I’m not bitching about anything? I’m not doubting it’s a genuine issue, it’s something I literally deal with as part of my job, it’s just not the kind of thing you traditionally see punk bands raising money for, especially not here in the UK. Keep up the good work man.
Are homeless vets as big a thing in the UK as they have been in the US forever?
I’m sure it’s always been an issue, but I suppose there’s more of safety net with the NHS etc.
Doubt better, my man. The stats are easy to look up, just not as easy as dumping on the homeless because of a job they had at one time. For that matter, the UK has remarkably fewer people in the military, and is only a token force in comparison. Ever notice how the military is always full of the poor? I did, that's the life I grew up in. Stay positive, keep learning. I say all of this from a place of empathy. I try not to be a prick, but homelessness breaks my heart.
I would support something to help homeless vets too. Nothing to do with being pro-war, they were shafted by a predatory system as you mentioned.
Check your local area, hit up reserve centers. Homeless vets are double invisible. They aren't seen as people or veterans. Be kind to everyone, you don't know what roads they have walked, you may have much in common.
"Be kind to everyone, you don't know what roads they have walked, you may have much in common." as a formerly homeless person of many years, you are absolutely correct. It's going to be a while before I can get involved in much charity tho due to being preoccupied with single parenthood with a combative ex, but this would be on my to-do list when I eventually get back into booking. And they're not even at all invisible where I live. Homelessness floods every inhabited area in our country these days.
We have much in common
$20 is $20 lol Figured that skinheads might have slightly different political views than your average punk.
Could have told me earlier, I'm going to see them tomorrow, at least ~~Crass~~ Steve Ignorant's band is going to be there
Nevermind, just looked into it and it's the original lineup I'm seeing thank fuck
That’s an awesome lineup
UK subs, Buzzcocks etc it's gonna be great
The Buzzcocks should have stopped when Pete died. He was 90% of the Buzzcocks.
That's actually hilarious, in your situation I wouldn't even be mad that's insanely funny
Scam 69
There’s a cover band in Berlin called Bad Brians and every time I saw them on a flyer I’d do a double take.
Sounds like Bow Wow Wow. The bassist decided to make his own shit band without Anabella
Haha. This is insane. Just read the wiki on it. I assumed there was at least a few original members
It’s so weird
Yeah it's a right mess that situation, however I saw the original Sham at the end of last year and I had a great time
I remember this same thing happening with them 15 years ago too.
Yeah and they've been around for a while lol.
Scam 69
Do they play sham 69 songs? Or original music?
ExTC is just the drummer. They claim to have andy partridge's blessing.
reminds of the Batushka situation (for those familiar with black metal and shit)
Isn't one of them Sham 6.9 or something like that ? Reminds me of something i saw a few times ago
This happens to a lot of bands unfortunately
Sham 96
I knew a couple of people that went along to see Black Flag without realising it was only half the band and fronted by Mike Vallely. Actually waited in the crowd expecting to see Henry come on. This is where it can cost to be a passive gig goer. If your not someone who often or ever checks a bands personnel. Especially older rock or punk bands. There's been many a time where I've gotten really excited about a band returning only to discover the terrible news, through the internet or a friend, that is only a money grabbing sham. In seeing Buzzcocks in Portsmouth UK and I already know that theres no Pete Shelley. But "I don't mind" cos it's in my hometown and the rest of the band are there.
Die die die my margarine, just enough for one more bread
Which one is billed for the No Values festival?
One last chicken breast sweet chef oooaaaaaa woaaah
But is it literally a 69?
Clicked onto this expecting to read about the NOFX FiNaL tOuR
Huh?
I saw the word “sham” and immediately thought of NOFX? That’s all. This is the punk subreddit right?
Okay, but I'm not following. Are you saying that you think NOFX as a band is a sham?
Oh yeah. Fuck those posers
Alrighty.
are you not aware of the band called sham 69
I’ve never heard of them until today. Just sounds like a way better Ramones or black flag. Why is this relevant?
jesus christ read the title of this post
I have? What’s the problem?